me and my brother know how it works.

>>4668065
I <3 that show

Magic does not exist, you idiot. It's a fairy tale for people like you, that can't stand the thought of their lives being pretty much boring and want to believe in a hidden force. Guess what? There's no such force.

No such thing as magick as such... There are higher powers etc, of course. But not a whole lot that humans can conjure I would think ..

>>4668114
higher powers but not magic? how's that?

>>4668045
>"energy"

What is this "energy" people keep referring to? When it's used like this, it goes against the very definition of energy

>>4668135

Note that he wrote magick instead of magic, he's a either desillusioned satanistfag, a troll, or a 12year old

More than likely several of the above

>>4668145
The problem is its quite difficult to define except from the subjective feelings it creates, regardless of which it is possible to use it and even circulate it in a group. I'd describe it like a "current", but also as "that which takes the form of the recipient".

For example, the form of the recipient states your intention, and that with which you fill such form would be that "energy" or whatever.

>>4668158

no u troll.
k is for kteis

>>4668197

Subjectivism, huh? No wonder then...

It's still not energy however

>>4668222
He means semen.

>>4668222
yeah I agree the word sucks, and its probably both a sympthom of intellectual laziness and of not knowing wtf is going on with that and why/how does it work.

>>4668232
No, the question is why you believe in this retarded shit.

>>4668237
I probably believe in less stuff than you do, sorry you wont understand anything over the sound of your XIX century rational worldview

>>4668243
If my worldview is from XIX century, then yours must be from like V century as only then people believed in this amusing bullshit. Grow up, maybe?

Ok, I haven't seen anything that confirms magic, is there anything that you can have me read, write, say, or do that will make me a believer? I'm being completely open-minded here.

>>4668254
I can transmute gold.

It is very simple once you realise how "reality" works. Understanding how "reality" works though is usually quite difficult. I suggest you perform a ceremonial evokation if you want to be forced into it quickly with no real learning involved prior to the understanding. Though half of all people who truly understand kill themselves, which although they realise is futile they do it to once again forget. I could explain it to you the best I could but that is something I would prefer not to do so impartially lest my words be spread to the masses and invalued like so much truth is in these days. I do wish you luck on your attempts to understand magic however, If I were to tell you that both truths that you have understood are equally right and equally wrong, I would hope that would be enough. IF your introduction was into chaos magic you should be able to simply understand that subjectivity is truth niu? A chaot is able to take complete fallacy and work it into the cosmos by allying with the greater order, that is preceived as the chaos hiding behind the practical order... a rabbit hole is a silly place for a world after all, is it not?

>>4668254
Read the heptameron, perform a ceremonial evokation. IF you do it right and IF you survive you will believe whole heartedly. Though I would suspect that you would both perform it with a slight incorrectness and then fail to survive due to this failure in procedure. I do not believe this due to any failure on your part, it just is the more likely to occur. Do you believe yourself willing to die for truth?

>>4668268
>realize how reality works
>participate in retarded rituals and then kill yourself when you can't bear your own faggotry anymore

That's not how you do it, nigga.

>>4668254
Magic is the realm of the subjective, which means that the scientific request of an objective observer cannot be met. Whereas science deals with the signifiers (the structural and symbolic aspects of the world) trying to drain it from the signified part of it, magic deals mostly with the signified.

Therefore, the only way you can answer that is by doing magic. I've seen people explain out stuff by invoking "coincidence" to a point in which they looked like religious zealots trying to keep to their beliefs at any cost. Since magic deals with your own subjectivity and with the very structure of meaning you project to the world, the only way you can experience it is by doing it yourself. In that sense, magic is also deconstruction of your own perceptual mechanisms and of the conditionings from our education which make us tell ourselves a narrative on how the world works.

So, one definition of magic would be the use of illusions to make more apparent that illusions are illusions. Every narrative you care to make about reality is fiction, and magic is a lot about becoming aware of that and getting away with your own fictions and the freedom of not being forced to any of them.

>>4668279
Is that like TAKS?

>>4668288

>>4668287
So, a magic user is delusional, because only he sees it, or, WANTS to see it work. You need help.

>>4668254 Here

>>4668279 is there anyway that I can confirm it without the possibility of getting harmed?

>>4668287 Yes, I am ready to try doing it, this is what I am asking you to help me with, I will read and follow anything as long as the end-result is something that can confirm the truthfullness of it, but to me it just seems like you're trying to change the subject...

>>4668300
same butthurt summerfag from the other thread

>>4668304
no u

How would a ceremonial evocation work for that? I mean, I get that it'd be a mindfuck if whatever is evoked really appeared there, and that it might all be in the mind in the end -but our minds could be greater than we suspect-, but I still don't get how you place there the axis on how to understand reality.

About "lest my words be spread to the masses and invalued like so much truth is in these days" well, that's how it works nowadays: the information is often in the open, but what we have -or what I've had- to refine is the bullshit detector.

>you should be able to simply understand that subjectivity is truth
yes, still I guess I am doubtful of the extent to which subjectivity works to determine the world that we usually call "external". I've seen probability gone eerie to a point it was as if the universe had come alive, but not a total mind-creating-reality scenario.

>>4668280
I understood reality through practical application of science in the most complex yet simplest of the sense. I gathered information of both the practical and the spiritual, I applied accurate control and experimentation to disprove what was false, I then gathered more information and continued to do the same. As I was doing all of this I applied what I learned together to form a "personal belief system" based upon all that could be considered "truth" until that belief system comprised itself of only truth and such truths of such magnitude that they eventually combined into one single truth that is "The Truth" though there are other ways to be forced to understand this knowledge and doing as you say "retarded ceremonies then killing yourself because you can not stand your own faggotry" Is one of those ways so to speak, you have twisted the meaning behind my words yet it is still somewhat affective, though it is the "faggotry" of understanding, the negative subjectivity of utter truth that is not near as romantic as you were lead to believe. If this world had no magic, had no quantum theories, and was simply the "physical" that the ignorant believe I would be much happier... even I sometimes wish I could unsee what cannot be unseen and unlearn that which is true knowledge. I in truth would not wish such things on anyone, yet I also understand the burning desire to know more... and to gain more...

>>4668302
>>4668287 here

No, I'm not trying to change the subject. Its that when magic really works, you can expect your whole worldview to crumble to pieces. Its not just about oh weird paranormal effects, its the very basis of reality which is at stake when you get deep enough.

If you want somewhere to start, I think its probably easy to start with sigils. Learn about them. Some authors are quite good, like Philip Hine (search for a PDF of a book called Condensed Chaos) or Peter J.Carroll, maybe also there's this nice article called "Pop Magic!" by comic writer Grant Morrison. This will get you used to the idea of manipulation of probability, which is a good first step.

>>4668320
Quantum theories are not magic. However, you are on a straight way to getting admitted to a special factility for people like ya. There you can be a Dumbledore for everyone.

>>4666666

>>4668320
"Those who've had a glimpse of reality will never find rest", said someone in the OTO

Your energy model just sounds like another method of imprinting the unconscious.

>>4668316
To successfully complete a ceremonial evokation you are forced to come to terms with reality, you are subject to a state most namely known as "nirvana" which is in a sense the attainment of one with the universe... You will be forced to know all things and love all things, and in that state you may move a mountain with a thought but have no motivation to do so. Without the love that this state produces you would surely end it all, and could. Most who have suffered this knowledge like I said do attempt suicide to simply forget it, though you can never truly end yourself. Even still the subject of this thread is to prove magic and how it works niu? which an evokation would most surely do in any sense... never mind my seemingly absurd ramblings.

>>4668328

However psychoanalysis is a quite close. Read Jacques Lacan, second in importance in the history of psychoanalysis, and how he states that your unconscious self is that which creates your ontological reality.
Unfortunately very few people understand this author.

>>4668320

What? Quantum theories? Do you really have any idea what you're talking about?

>>4668328
You sir are correct, I am a scientist more than I am anything however and I did separate the terms did I not? Both magic and quantum mechanics lead to the truth and together is the fastest route but it is a truth that I was dictating I wish I had never learned and all who learn do as well... or at least most I am sure I am not aware of all and since the probability for anything is an infinite I am sure at least one who is not against it must arise.

I find it helpful to bend emotional patterns while meditating. Intention is a very important factor that alters your perspective, and therefore alters your experience.

>>4668358
Yes, I do.

>>4668346

No, not absurd at all (>>4668316 & OP here). My aim is not to prove magic -in a certain sense its already proven- but to get deeper into it. This nirvana you speak about, reminds me of what hinduists call Samadhi, the union of subject/object. This would be what I'm aiming for, and now I'm working at the unification of my will and self so that there is only the aim to join with the big Other.
> in that state you may move a mountain with a thought but have no motivation to do so
Since there is no self and Self/Other is one, there would be no motivation, I guess?

>>4668369

That's not union of "subject/object", it's the defeat of "subject", which is, however, still a noble goal to try and achieve, very few, if any, humans are capable of this however

>>4668369
Correct, the motivation would lack due to the absolute love you possess for all things you are given to enjoying things as they are... you lose any motivation for changing what is. If you are attempting to reach a molding of self and object though I would suggest you study Hermetics, several of the introductory texts are for you to meld yourself into the various elements and objects one by one and come to understanding with them and gain power over them.

>>4668385
I personally believe otherwise, though there is no truth to in the belief of nobility only opinion.

>>4668385
Not an easy task, that's for sure. As far as I know, the most workable method without retiring to a temple would be that of pure devotion to the Other, or "Bhakti Yoga", which seems to be what fits me best. Deduction through pure knowledge would be "Jnana Yoga" which seems what >>4668386 is about.

>>4668386
now that you mention it, lately I've been working in a two-fold way, first surrendering to the element I'm working with then taking control after I've surrendered. However, if you could point me to some text I'd be quite grateful.

>>4668386
You're mistaking mysticism for magic.

>>4668369
I would also like to add that if you truly seek to understand reality then you must first learn to love everyone on your own. Your own pleasure and happiness and that of others is the only thing truly "real" and certainly the only truth worth anything. Find a reason to live and live well, and never harm another if it can be helped.

>>4668405
aren't they quite close? Unless you deconstruct reality in a way that'd be quite close to mysticism you will not be able to effectively alter it.

>>4668418
Indeed, but the end results Cowy is talking about are typical of Buddhism, Tantra, etc, and are not generally to be found within magical traditions even those which utilize the same methodology (up to a point).

>>4668405
magic, science, mysticism, religion, faith, fantasy, it is all the same when it boils down... to argue semantics is pointless and can be argued logically from all sides my friend. Magic in definition is the ability to use truth to understand or use the universe. Science in definition is the ability to use truth to understand or use the universe. Mysticism is the ability to find truth and use it to understand the universe which in turn will allow you to use the universe.

>>4668412

But search for pleasure corrupts you, doesn't it? To the limit that your greed for pleasure makes you neglect others in need. It's called a "shallow existence", where the only thing that matters is yourself.

I fail to see how you can reach any form of enlightenment from this...

>>4668431
I have already spoken of the said magical traditions that cause such a state. Although one of the first who introduced me into western ceremonial was also an avid eastern practitioner I have learned much from other sources and when speaking of a "truth" one may not be reduced down into simple terms or seperations such as mysticism versus magic. We are after all long past into decay from the days such seperations of magical principles were useful.

>>4668431

Well, in western magic the "Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel" in which the magician joins the Daemon (or HGA, or Other in the Self/Other equation, or the Unconscious or whatever term is used) seems quite the same as the sort of samadhi that for example Swami Vivekananda speaks about in Bhakti Yoga as obtained through devotion. The only difference I've found is that for example Vivekananda instructs people not to use the powers that are obteined, and magic is all about doing your Will (even if that is really the Will of the Other/Daemon/HGA and not the one of the limited ego).
There might be a point like >>4668437 pointed out in which the lack of a Self develops into a lack of motivation, since there is no will to completion as this goal has already been reached. But what of the Will of the daemon, or of the unconscious Self?

>>4668437
I don't see how such overabstracted meanings that you are assigning to terms would be useful. Science removes itself from magical and mystical traditions by virtue of of a complete rejection of subjective grounding. And most of what I'm referring to as mystical traditions do not seek to change reality in the same way as magical traditions do. Of course there is magic in mysticism and mysticism in magic. That does not mean that the to have identical goals, and more importantly, it does not mean that your explanations about mystical "no motivation" are relevant to the subject of magic.

>>4668444
I coupled the search for personal pleasure to that of giving pleasure to others as well. The universe cares not for personal views on morality you must understand so it also cares not if you have a so called "shallow exsistence" though you will not be shallow if you strive to help others as well. Empires crumble, pages turn to dust, nothing you do will ever matter unless it is to make yourself or others happy... People you affect may be your only legacy, your own pleasure may be your only succor. This is one of the hardest truths you will ever have to understand, though it will also be fairly meaningless unless you understand the truths that make it so.

>>4668444

Search for pleasure and love needs not be wrong if you define yourself not as the limited self you are used to but as your whole life experience. That is to say, your very message I'm answering is still something which has been created by my brain (there's some external stimulus, but the building of experience and all its meaning is a product of my brain). Therefore, it is in my interest that everything that I experience, internal or external, is joy.

Restrictive ascetic perspectives on mysticism and enlightenment, now that's an obstacle

>>4668454
Speaking of "no motivation" is simply the result that I, those I know, and those I have heard of have gained. Since I am both a scientist as well as an occultist and a mysticist and infact personally view them as being all the same thing I must only believe what I have proven to myself or others have proven to me. They are also all the same thing because they are the same subject matter a rose of any other name would smell just as sweet niu? it is merely the colour of the rose you are worrying about it seems... or the community and their own personal views in such societies not necissarily the actual subjects themselves.

>>4668450
The fact remains that you are talking about your own chosen goals as though they were common to all of magic. They are not.

>>4668452
Yes, but of course in SMoA you *have* to use the squares magically as a test of the "enlightenment". And actually, to be precise, you have to do similar things in all systems to distinguish a true enlightenment from illusion.

And as you say, magic has you going on to do your true will.

I tend to classify myself as a pagan because of dichotomies such as this - the "civilized" spiritualities tend to endpoint with the loss of individual self, whereas the "primitive" pagan ones avoid such a fate, and attempt to go on to greater individual self lives.

>>4668452
It is funny you ask that, the sense of nivana which is love and no motivation are the only thing that protect you from the will of the devil you have summoned. Yes the ceremony and the circle and ect... do help but when it comes to the contest of wills it is that love and lack of motivation that forces the devil into submission.

>>4668469
My mentor was a scientist and did great work explaining the relationship between science and magic. But I disagree that the subjects of science are the same as the subjects of magic and mysticism. You cannot separate the philosophical fundamentals of science from its domain - when one rejects subectivity one cannot really claim to have the same subjects of study as someone who embraces it does.

And it is fair, of course more than fair, and honest of you to only reference results that you have achieved from magic. Nonetheless, your experience does not align with traditional magical understanding, and speaking on a personal level, I have seen lots of magic in my life, and I have done some, and it goes well beyond what you're describing here as magic.

>>4668480
>I tend to classify myself as a pagan because of dichotomies such as this - the "civilized" spiritualities tend to endpoint with the loss of individual self, whereas the "primitive" pagan ones avoid such a fate, and attempt to go on to greater individual self lives.

Well, I doubt that this would be the loss of individual self, but the relocation of the ego-self into another place. Philosophically I know that I'm all that I experience and that the self/Other barrier is artificial, so all in all I wouldn't lose anything but probably win a truer perspective on the reality I'm experiencing.
However, having an ego is probably useful for pursuing long-term goals. Having some sense of identity is an evolutionary mechanism designed to make us able to pursue such goals (and probably quite an important key in understanding why humans prevailed), but at the same time believing in the narratives we tell ourselves doesn't sound like a good option. Being tied to a concept-of-self built from the past and looking to the future is quite a slavery if we can't control the narrative. The destruction or at least the control of such narratives of the self to bring desired results seems to me like very necessary.

>>4668491
OK, that's it, you're completely wrong on this one. It is the will of the HGA which allows for the safety of the practitioner and control of demons. Loving demons only opens you up to their influence.

No offense dude, you seem like a great guy with a lot of knowledge behind you, but a magician you are not.

>>4668491
>>4668491
That's interesting, so you think of the Daemon as an enemy you have summoned? (in some sense it feels right since the Lesser Guardian of the Threshold which it is manifests first as some kind of devil, but it doesn't look like that when it is the Higher Guardian of the Threshold / beautiful Angel of Presence who blocks the door to the higher world, so to speak using Rudolf Steiner's words).
What I don't get is, it is this very Daemon which has trained me into love and devotion, how could it be that the enemy is providing the very means to resist its will?

There is no magick, just a series of rituals to attain the mindset needed to influence the Power of Chance and from All the Possibilities pick the one you desire more. You were right by following the Chaos doctrine, it's by far the most convincing one, even for an atheist (which I consider myself one). I would advice you to read the Elric of Melnibone series from Michael Moorcock there's a lot of good examples; and although it's pure fantasy, it tells much truth about the concept of Chaos, Law and Fate. Cheers.

>>4668507
Maybe it is this rejection of the HGA which has led this anon to this point in which he languishes from this lack of motivation. Just wondering

>>4668514
yeah, I'm an agnostic myself, and chaos magick theory looked quite plausible. I would have never tried anything full of dogma, but magic seemed to go in the exact opposite direction to religion, and it proved itself to be a good tool with which to dissect reality.

ty for the Moorcock recommendation, still have not read anything from him

so give it your best shot, what can you do/did with magick?
give some stories, and no 'i felt love to the whole world' faggotry

>>4668507
The HGA is an enochian concept and not a part of all western magic, despite crowly. The HGA is the whole you and is in its very essence your ability to do anything... it can be considered your soul or your real self but a devil may be summoned and is frequently summoned without the use of it or by those who have not found theirs. I am a magician, and a knowledgeable person both... you have to understand that not all magic revoles around the specific doctrin you were taught. I only follow what works, I am not bound by any doctrin.

>>4668514
>>4668533
Athiests and agnostics are cute. Even those with only a little magical training can easily prove to exsistence of beings higher than ourselves including those recorded as "gods"

>>4668540
Sadly sir this is not another one of those creepy pasta threads on /x/

>>4668563

Entropy is not a god, it is a basic force in the cosmos. If you try to give it consciousness to it you must be a retard.

>>4668510
I was referring to other things you summon not your HGA. Though it is a possibility that your HGA truly hates you and wants to give you a sporting chance... but hardly a fact. Sorry If I have confused you or any of the others have, there is quite a lot of subject matter flying about.

Adonay Saday, Rex Regum, El, Aty, Titeip, Azia, Hyn, Ien, Minosel, Achadan, Vay, Vaa, Ey, Haa, Eye, Exe, a El, El, El, a, Hy, Hau, Hau, Hau, Va, Va, Va, Va.

>>4668578

One too many "it"s in there. Just ignore the one you feel the most comfortable to.

The HGA is not an enochian concept. It could as much be a jewish one, since it was a Rabbi who wrote the Abramelin operation. Still it is also a greek one, since every philosopher and everyone in Greece who was in the know had met their Daemon. And even moar its probably an egyptian one, which is the origin of all the western tradition, both greek&hebrew.

So your idea is that it should be rejected only if its a demon instead of your true self?

It still doesn't really make sense. Demons are lower wills, wills that are smaller than you and that therefore enslave you if they exploit your weaknesses. But a higher will that lets you expand your mind would be the very HGA, how could you confuse them both? Also, if a higher or more expanded will had parts which our current limited perspective would judge as devilish, probably the answer would still be to embrace such expansion of consciousness as well and overcome the limitations

>>4668578
I am not sure if your off topic, or just oddly misguided. I spoke of actual entities similar to ourselves in the fact of intelligence and having an ego with greater power than ourselves and not being limited to the "physical" realm so to speak. Such beings as the christian god, or Eris, or Odin, or whatever you like... They exsist without a doubt, and are easily proven to ones self through practicing the means that allow you to view and/or register their presence and then following through with experimentation.

>>4668578
That "energy" which was discussed earlier in this thread is exactly this. Just think about it.

>>4668563
Don't get me wrong, as an agnostic I've made magick that works and dealed with things that ancient humans with a lack of culture would call "gods". But I think the concept of god is just a way for intellectual lazyness.

>>4668599

Thanks for your request.
It has been added to our database and the thread will be archived as soon as enough request for that thread have been made.
This thread has been requested 1 times now.

>>4668583

have you united with your HGA?

what was the key for it? Diverse authors speak of a continuous obsession with it to the point everything is done for the HGA or for the aspiration itself, what do you think about that?

>>4668603
>But I think the concept of god is just a way for intellectual lazyness.

That's a fairly lazy statement to make.

drop acid see god; is that magick?

>>4668597

By this logic you're implying that gods as Yog-Sothoth and Azathoth exists because you can actually summon their tokens in your dreams. Hasn't it occured to you that the human mind is much more powerful than a god as to create the perception of them into you?

>>4668611
You could say something like that... I am an odd case and I doubt information on my personal experience in this matter would be very helpful to those unlike myself.

>>4668621
In a sense, yes. But when the acid is done you get back to the normal world. Most people, even those who use acid and other stuff with this aim, forget that they have to bring to earth what they've experience in their acid trip. They end up living in two worlds, normal world and acid world.

In some sense in magic we bring the acid to everyday life and consciousness.

http://kermix.com/pop_magic.pdf

pop magic .pdf

Please, "HGA" means what?

>>4668625
Honestly I would have to explain the entire concept of truth and how reality actually works and assuming you could understand it by second hand knowledge which you I doubt you could... Only then would you be able to understand what you are asking or suggesting. I must simply answer with something you will be unpleased with, so yes I am suggesting that those beings exsist though summoning their tokens into your dreams is a way of sole subjective experimentation it is not the only way... what it takes is several instinces of true experiences for truth to be found. Obviously dream summoning is not your cup of tea, try another method and we will see... your same argument could work for anything to be honest. Just because your eyes project refraction of light into an image that is found in your mind which is a bunch of cells working together with electrical currents and energy to form a working sense of ego and mass that is in turn formed of molecules formed of atoms formed of sub atomic particles that themselves are formed from the interplay of two major forces that are on opposite sides of the universe so far away and so powerful we can not comprehend... does that mean that the items you are viewing with your eyes are real? or touching with your hand is real? which touching itself never happens, atoms repel one another and nothing truly touches... you only feel the repulsion not the actual object which in itself does not truly exsist if you think about it... oh well... guess you can only prove something so much niu?

>>4668650
Holy Guardian Angel. HGA. give me an H? holy! ect...

>>4668550
I used the term HGA as a stand-in for any number of possible terms describing the same thing. I wouldn't recommend enochian either, and for much the same reason as I wouldn't recommend your approach.

And I'm sorry, but you're wrong, and your advice is dangerous. As far as I can tell you appear to be using useful techniques to deal with the "demons" of Maya, but on actual demons, your approach is suicide.

>>4668578
All things have consciousness or can be treated effectively as though they have consciousness. Don't piss entropy off, it's not very merciful.

>>4668597
...and this is absolutely correct, as is >>4668594

the universe is like a big, well oiled machine. magic is tweaking the cogs so that the outcome will be more in your favor.

that's really all.

>>4668656

Blah blah blah, I have seen this on that movie called "What the #$*! Do We Know!?"

>>4668650
HGA = Holy Guardian Angel. It is a middle-ages term which is currently used because noone really believes in angels, in order to have some absurd term with which to make reference to a very serious business.

HGA from my perspective is the link with Spirit, the interface through which you interact with the mental layer of reality, both for getting info from it (divination, meaningful coincidente) and for affecting it (magic in a strict sense)

>Thanks for your request.
>It has been added to our database and the thread will be archived as soon as enough request for that thread have been made.
>This thread has been requested 3 times now.

Please request an archive, guys, I have to go soon :(

this thread is herpa derpa durr. wasnt magick to be for practical use only, write how to gain $$ with it or something

>>4668631
Acid just shows us what already there. Any drug can do that really. Its amazing what we hide from our selves.

>>4668666
I told you it would not please you. I am sorry.

>>4668279
you mean the thing that requires three days of fasting and no sleep

Magic is just one big metaphor. Users of magic rely on the belief in its existence in order to use it.

If you think someone who practices magic is going to tell you that it Is a metaphor then you are dumber than the very people you attack.

both sides are wrong.
The grass is greener here.

magic doesn't work

Magic was an awesome fucking card game.

>>4668688
I'm sorry to hear that was your experience.

>>4668676

Yeah, I've tried the Ayahuasca brew and it was quite impressive. Incidentally the next few days there was a huge flow of synchronicity around me, enough to cause me some vertigo. Needless to say, I had already contacted my HGA in a synchro-fest, but the synchro-flow was quite small until suddenly it grew a lot again after the Ayahuasca for a few days (also, I had passed through the Duat, the Underworld, but I had not -and still have not- achieved union with my HGA).

Still, I think entheogens are nice for opening up for new tricks or undoing blockages, but other than that I've seen too many people too unbalanced with that when doing them too much.

>it is a possibility that your HGA truly hates you

No, it isn't.

>>4668694
nothing really works mate... not even life... quit deluding yourself into thinking it is working. Your just faking it and you know it. Just let go, you deserve to let go, let us go... we are no longer here with you... set your self free.

Hello /x/, I just bought 2 books
Greater key of solomon and The sacred book of Abram-Elin the mage
what should i do now

>>4668708
No really, it is, your mirror self might hate you to. Everything is possible, and when you understand it is possible it becomes plausible, and when you understand it is plausible it becomes probable, and when you understand it is probable it will happen... or it won't I suppose. that is possible too after all :3

>>4668713

that was actually quite deep

>>4668720
I hope you found the original hebrew text, the english version of abramelin the mage is missing key material that allow for its proper use. Also the keys of solomon are something you should really attempt after some other indrotuctory method. I suggest you follow them exsactly if you attempt to use them though, if it says the blood of a black cock you get the fucking blood of a black cock Sir!

If I read the thread right I see people talking about entropy in the context of chaos. This bit of science might be of interest. In "The Fabric of the Cosmos" by Greene, he says scientists are now-a-days looking at entropy less as chaos and more as symmetry on a larger scale. When an ice cube melts to gas it is actually becoming -more- symmetrical, not less. As an ice cube it has up and down, you turn it & it looks different -- even at a molecular scale, the lined up molecular matrix looks different from diff. angles. But once it goes to gas it is impossible to tell which 'side' of the gas is up, or left, or such. The universe is going super-symmetrical as it expands and spreads out. The clumpy spots are us and the stars and the like. What looks like 'things' falling apart is the Universe making everything even and symmetrical on the grandest scale.

>>4668740
thank you for the advice fellow xphile

>>4668747
In some related magic topic, any effect you created is balanced by its opposite working like a pendulum. Therefore, it is probably moar about learning to ride the waves.

>>4668740
I actually bought them in bulgarian and have no idea of what has been misstranslated and deleted

>>4668740
Are those key parts related with sex by any chance?

>>4668774
bulgarian? hmm... well see which version it was translated from I suppose though... an extra translation would most likely further corrupt the value of it. If your feeling froggy though jump, the worst that could happen is you being killed in the most horrible way imaginable and forced to submit to the ego of another... but that last part is sort of fair turn about niu?

>>4668784
Only if your a hot fluffy wiccan girl, then yes and only I can teach them to you. Otherwise... I hope your trolling with that statement.

>>4668797
No, but it comes from the inconsistency on Abramelin and Crowley's ideas on attaining the HGA.

Crowley's Liber Samekh is purposefully sexual in that the masturbation is used to rise the Kundalini and provoke a mirror reaction from above, which in my experience is a substance which quite like an universal solvent, cleans up everything but the aspiration to the HGA.

However it also seems that such use of vitriol in Liber Samekh is in the end a way to silence the mind -Liber Samekh itself is like a huge banishing ritual to silence the mind-, and this Silence is something it seems to have in common with Abramelin's method

>>4668817
....I really hope that was not a hot fluffy wiccan girl... total cock block. In anycase I like your point on this matter, I had not really paid any mind to that correlation.

>>4668787
sounds good as long as something actually happens
ps. i suppose it was translated from english

>>4668832
No promises something will "happen", that has alot to due with how badly it was translated and your ability to perform and/or understand the subject matter. Though almost always something will happen if you screw it up, usually deadly or at least unfortunate. I suggest you don't screw it up, if you get only a partial manifestation or no manifestation after several commands to show itself I would suggest immediate banishing and getting the fuck out of the place you did it in and never returning. Then pray.

Why is it there's so many wiccan girls and not that much into (sorry for the neopagans) serious magic?

>>4668856
Because the light hearted fantasy that if you say a rhym anything you want is yours is appealing to girls, not to mention the psuedo intelligence of it and the sexually open mind set... you generally end up with attractive, alternative girls with loose morals...

So this shit you believe in actually doesn't do anything?

>>4668856
I would like to add that if I could find an attractive girl who was into real magic and had intelligence I would be far more into that... but I do find something appealing in their general nievity and "innocence" It really appeals to a part of this thing I have become.

>>4668888
>but I do find something appealing in their general nievity and "innocence"

>>4668876
IT does if you perform it correctly and can understand it. It is like hanging a computer to a monkey and the monkey throws it at a wall... the monkey obviously did not understand it and did not perform the task appropriately to gain any significance from the use of a computer. Now if you hand a computer to an eleven year old boy and give him an internet connection... well he will soon be /-/4X0|2 or some such.

>>4668911
That picture always gives me false hope :(

PROOF OF MAGIC EXISTING UNDER SECURE, CONTAINED, CONTROLLED EXPERIMENTS: 0%

TOTAL LACK OF ANYTHING WHEN TESTING MAGIC IN IDENTICAL CONDISTIONS: 100%

It doesn't exist, never has, never will.

>>4668823
I guess is something you have to do, because Crowley does not speak clearly on the consequences of the orgasm of the operation, and the Kundalini is only hinted at. The mirror reaction from outside which drowned me in that was currently unexpected. But since this substance seems to be able to dissolve anything I offer to it -meaning internal crap, etc- except the very aspiration to the HGA, I suspect it has to do with this vitriol-solvent that is hinted at in the hexagram symbol, etc.

"I started with chaos magick"
In other words you let random events unfold like the rest of us.


Lets assume you are using "energy" It can only be in the form of some kind of wave or quantum particle to have any adverse effect fabric of space time around you. However to do this you need to be able to manipulate string vibrations in higher dimensions. Unfortunately you are a 3rd dimensional being. The only thing you can view in the 4th dimesion is little sections. You perceive this as the passage of time. The 5th to 11th dimensions are unviewable to you in any shape or form. So unfortunately since you can't effect the fabric of spacetime, you can't do anything that you claim magic can do other than sitting back and letting the universe unfold before. Just like everyone else.

Your magic faggot ass just got owned by quantum mechanics. ASSHOLE.

>>4668926
BUT I SUMMONZ A DEMON IN MY DREAM LOL< YOU JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND RAELITY PROPERLY

COME BACK WHEN YOUVE READ ABOUT MAGIC SYMBOLS MORE

>>4668926
Yeah well like, that's just your opinion, man.

>>4668926

because if magic could work, people could do magic and the news flash would read "HOLY FUCK, PEOPLE CAN DO MAGIC!, THIS IS THE BIGGEST NEWS EVER!".

but they dont, because it doesnt.

>>4668926
Thank you for your opinion, it has been noted. Although I personally only believe in what I have experimented with personally under controlled conditions and following the scientific method and you would know that if you had read this thread, I am glad you feel the confidence in yourself to thrust your faithful convictions at rational people whom simply attempt to keep an open mind and a subjective eye... Please return to your temples now and leave us in peace.

>>4668935
HIS EXPERIENCE JUST GOT PWNED BY THEORY OH TOTALLY PWND LOLOLOLOL

>>4668939
>Yeah well like, that's just your FACTS man.

FTFY

>>4668962
NAH BRO.
Y'SEE, MAGIC IS MAGIC AND IT EXISTS OUTSIDE OF SCIENCE SO IT WON'T WORK UNDER SCIENTIFIC TESTING OTHERWISE IT'D BE SCIENCE NOT MAGIC.
TL;DR: IT'S MAGIC, I AIN'T GOTTA EXPLAIN SHIT.

...This thread seems to be being invaded by obvious trolls, shall we ignore them?

>>4668952
>rational people
>believes in magic

>>4668966
Despite my belief that magic must follow the scientific method to be proven, and only believe what personally I have proven... I do like the saying "It's magic I don't have to explain shit!" It is a very nice way to blow someone off... However I dislike the amount of troll that has wandered in.

>>4668966
Blind faith =)

>>4668969

It's daytime in the USA during the summer, nothing useful can be posted then. Part of magic is using the element of time, and timing correctly. I say abandon this thread to the howling loons of disorder & try again when it's past their bedtime...

>>4668969
Yeah. Obviously if people don't believe in magic they're trolls.
Magic isn't real, and you know it. Anyone can lie on the internet, grow up.

>>4668969
yeah, the old "it does exist" vs "if doesn't" becomes boring after a while, when can't ignore anymore that the standard belief system doesn't account for reality and its behaviour.

also on
>>4668925
it gives false hope yes, but even worse, I've seen it used by not very scrupulous people to convice others to follow. Which is a shame, xkcd rocks and its quite a nice strip

>>4669005
I was actually referring to those refusing to talk reasonably and just caps typing, insulting, and/or generally being disruptive to the thread which is trolling for an outburst or at least to ruin this discussion. If you do not believe in magic that is your right and your opinion, but must you act like so many who are bad in the paranormal community and the religious community and attempt to tear down others or beat them over the head with your personal beliefs? I am sad if you must...

2012 the stars will be aligned and the dead god will wake up


wat do

>>4668996

hey at least I've seen a proper magic thread on /x/. I'm not against creepypasta threads and all the usual stuff, but I really appreciate that still you can have some serious thread in /x/ regarding these topics.

Also I am quite surprised that so many people in /x/ (and not just in this thread) is fast to judge anything going against their rational beliefs on reality as false.

>>4668942
then you experienced it yourself and shat so much brix you ended up in a psychic ward. welcome to reality

>>4669042
I know right? I am in these as much as I can be but they so rarely come up and trolling is so frequent usually... I find that it is best to join them when it is midnight to 8 am in america... or atleast in the part that I reside in. I am not sure of the reason for this, but it always seems to be the case.

>>4668966
Listen you ignorant little cock. NOTHING exists outside of science. Science is the pursuit of understanding of the nature of the universe and everything in it, using observation and experimentation. You're claim that magic is outside of science only states that it is not real. You COULD say that science hasn't the tools to properly understand or document it, but saying that would just make youa a fucktard. Because of M theory and many other aspects of quantum mechanics Magic can't exist. Every possibility in every universe, is happening simultaneously. You can't effect the outcome of these things period. Even if your a being in the 11th dimension, you would only be able to see all universes and all possibilities. Which is staggering, considering those possibilities are infinite. That would make you God. You are a third dimensional being. And can only effect things in a 3 dimensional setting. Which is basically moving your body in 3 dimensions.

>>4669069
hmmm that would be morning for europe where I'm from

>>4669084

Junior college sophomore trying hard to sound smart

Discussing magic in a purely academic setting would be a decent thread. Not I am a fucking wizard faggotry. Go play D&D. It's like saying you worship fucking Jupiter and read entrails. You are a fucking nut if you do. But if you discuss ancient Romans worshiping Jupiter and reading entrails then at least you're being scholastic and contributing to a conversation, instead of being a huge lying faggot.

>>4669106

Spaz in 9th grade who thinks he can do magic.

>>4669130
>>4669084
More interesting than OP faggotry.

This thread is now about mad science.

>>4669084
>>4669084
If you could travel those universes in which there's every possibility, what difference would that make with the alteration of probability in your own universe? It would not matter at all.

Also, science still doesn't have the methods to confront, less to solve, the problem of conscience. My speciality is Artificial Intelligence -I have a scientific background- so I know very well we have very strong limits in here. Probably limits so strong they will need the very redefinition of science -which btw is not anything new at all- for us to be able to take our very first steps in this matter.

Now before you naively think science accounts for everything, please read Lacan on science and how it isolates the symbolic and keeps away any "meaning" -except a little core of meaning that says reality is there existing and that its rules are stable, that it assumes for its symbolic game to work-. There is a whole layer of reality related with meaning that is not currently manageable with the strict unchanging method you propose.

It probably will, however.

>>4669084
then if we were moar than 3 dimensional beings we could be able to achieve stuff?

>>4669084
Can't say that nothing exists out of science since science is not that old and also made by alchemists ie. Newton etc who failed that. Science is as dogmatic as religion sometimes damn. How can anybody know what actually exists and what doesn't? Shit one hundred years ago these internets would seem like fuckin magic to people who lived in that time.

>>4669151
>>4669151
You're stupidity made me face
palm. Lets say your driving down the highway. Your tire blows out. A huge semi- narrowly misses you.

Consider this. In another universe, the semi crashes into you and kills you.

Here is an easier one. You are walking down a hall. You can go either left or right. You go right, but in another universe you go left.
You flip a coin, you get heads. In another universe tails. Why do we know this?
Atthe quantum level We observed the same Photon, arrive in two different places. Its because the quantum level is on a lower dimension. You can't effect. As for Conscience? its synapses firing in your brain. Asshole.

>>4669189
You can't effect the fabric of the universe by drawing pictures and talking. You need to do things like SPLITTING THE FUCKING ATOM. Which isn't magic.

Also tenth dimesion explained.
11 dimensions explained

>>4669199

Quite right. In fact, science grew from magic. Now befoar shitstorm, if you check out history this is a fact : hermeticists, alchemists, magicians, in the middle ages and before they held the belief that reality could be explained through laws that could be manipulated. In the opposite side you had the religious who thought reality was to be explained through some external being. Before showing your ignorance, read the antropological study "the Golden Bough" about magic and religion in history.

Also, before 1920 noone thought atoms existed, until quantum mechanics arrived.

Also, before the 1925 announcement of Edwin Hubble's discovery of other galaxies, astronomers believed that the Milky Way was, itself, the entire universe.

>>4669151
>the problem of conscience
Nobody else can explain it either, they just make shit up

>Lacan
What a pomo fucktard. That whole so-called "philosophy" is just a bunch of hippie flakes who learned to bathe and went to grad school. I think they just act out against science because they're still bitter about failing math in high school and the bullies in the science club made them feel dumb, they're the teenage werewolves of the academic world.

>>4668045

the answer for me is, i don't fucking know. i try not to think about it, so long as it does work.

>>4669221
What does decide in which universe are you currently experiencing things? Obviously since you are having this conversation trolling your kidlike insults with kidlike arguments, you aren't split into multiple universes, faggot.

>As for Conscience? its synapses firing in your brain. Asshole.

I lol at you. Synapses firing do not account for the experience of ANYTHING idiot.

Look at it: vibrations in the air are coded into chemical/electrical impulses in your brain, then these impulses reach a point in which they are presented as actual sounds to your very experience of life. However, if you take the experience of a sound (or of a colour for that matter) there is NO WAY you can deduce that such experience will happen from what we know about chemical coding going on in our neural networks.

You might delude yourself and think you have it explained out by saying "chemical synapses", but this doesn't explain your experience of the color red, nor does it provide a cause from which such effect could be reasonably derived.

>>4669232

Science came from making logical observations.

>>4668045

It works by utilizing the sixth dimension, the realm of morphogenic forms and sacred geometry located in the sirius star system. Why do you think the great pyramid is pointing at sirius b?

Also, Grant Morrison.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKhSqPrPVcs&feature=fvst

>>4668287
Beautifully put. Yep, there's intelligent life on this board.

>>4669259
>>4669259

that video is pretty bad quality actually. Here's the whole lecture.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoID=1391124753

Shit works niggers.

Watch the fucking lecture.

>>4668720
Do the Abramelin bit. And don't forget to cover the floor with river sand.

>>4669041

Wrong.

>>4669239
If science can explain everything, explain your anger scientifically. Nobody here did you any harm or is a threat to your physical integrity. If you don't like the subject why don't go to other venue? What's the explanation for your hostility? Daddy issues?

>>4669343
>>4669285
>>4669269

Gentlemen, we can change the world. Please watch the video.

All magic is sympathetic magic. The rest is just flash.

People need to understand modern science before they make ridiculously abstract statements. A key component of quantum mechanics is the interaction between observer and the system under observation; nothing can be oberved objectively because the presence of the observer itself changes the outcome of the observation. Observers, let alone human beings, will never achieve objectivity; we're all working off our own narratives here. I'm an atheist and a skeptic, and even I understand this fact.

>>4669559
One thing I learned, the most ardent fans of science are the people who don't know shit about how it works.

>>4668065
faggots

>>4669582
I would add that the most fanatical fans of science usually are stuck into XIX century science and truly believe there are laws to the universe and we have or will unveil them. Obviously they've never heard about models and neither assume the consequences that we do not aspire to go any further than models, and the capital T Truth in an objective sense just doesn't exist.

>>4669254
Near death experiences are documented to occur during increased burst in brain activity before function ceases. Everything you perceive is because of what your brain does.

My anger towards people who use magick is very logical. Why wouldn't be angery at people who choose to do stupid things and perpetuate unwarranted self importance? Dammit i'm mad. I'm mad because you fucks that insist magic exists, are usually the same fuck holes that take advantage of people who grief over passing of loved ones or try to pass medications that has been diluted so much that there is no active ingredient.
Exactly, we can only make observations. But you can't move the fucking sun in the sky, or give someone a heart attack, or increase your luck through magical means. The universe operates completely, independent of your meaningless magical chantings and sigils. The only thing you can effect is your own perceptions.

Anyway all you fucks just don't get it that any and all possibilities already exist. have taken place or will take place. You can't have any effect on making something happen that is already going to happen. You don't make the sun rise, and you don't make the earth spin, you don't have control over ANYTHING other then how you handle things personally. Stop acting like you do. FUUUUU

>>4669612
If you can prove beyond the shadow of any doubt that you can perform any type of magical ability, then I will give you my life savings.

>>4669612
M theory is a constantly evolving mathematical construct that continually fits with observations in the field. And its front the 21rst century you fucking idiot.

>>4669458
No one said science can explain everything. Science is the pursuit of understanding everything. However, it very obvious that drawing pictures and chanting does nothing to effect the mechanics of the universe or any variety of possibility. That's why that one anon brought up M theory. Magic, (which was never spelled with k you morons until retarded wicca got a hold of the internet and misspelled it) is an archaic struggle to understand and manipulate the universe. key word manipulate. Manipluation of the fabric of space time is mathematically possible. However, the amount of energy needed is astronomical. Something NONE of you have. Unless your a walking super-massive black hole (or nigger neck-beard) SHUT THE FUCK UP

Mystery can never be defined.

>>4669825
Agreed. Finaly an intelligent anon in this thread full of astronomical fail. inb4 samefag

>>4669825
>>4669825

THANK YOU.

>>4669843
So my posts were full of astronomical fail? including the one you agreed upon?

>>4669851
Lots of life energy in thar semen.

1.anything that is kept secret or remains unexplained or unknown: the mysteries of nature.
2. any affair, thing, or person that presents features or qualities so obscure as to arouse curiosity or speculation: The masked guest is an absolute mystery to everyone.
3. a novel, short story, play, or film whose plot involves a crime or other event that remains puzzlingly unsettled until the very end: a mystery by Agatha Christie.
4. obscure, puzzling, or mysterious quality or character: the mystery of Mona Lisa's smile.

>>4669851
The fuck? I didn't write anything in this thread except>>4669843 nigga.

>>4669888
lol

>>4669891

No but I wrote what you agreed with along with all hte astronomical fail. Unless you meant the astronomical amount of magick faggotry, and not all the stuff on M Theory and higher dimensions regarding it, which is astronomical in nature. If that is hte case, dually withdrawn.

in be4 dot im / 4ch/x/res/4668045.html

>>4669913
I meant magick faggotry. This shit's so retarded it's not even funny. We should be able to burn them on stakes.

>>4669825
>>4669825

you are stupid. even if magic does not work at all, you are stupid for thinking you have any clue why it does or does not work. 'manipulate the fabric of space-time'. lol. do you have any fucking clue what that MEANS? suppose such fabric exists within a unified field concerning consciousness, probability, and matter. what then nigga? what the fuck then? seems like magic might work, then, huh? and how the fuck do you know whether there is such a field or if there isn't or what there is in its place... fucking asshole. magic might work, but be very inaccessable. this could be a massively multiplayer dream in which the rules are determined by concensus. it could be anything and you have NO

FUCKING

CLUE.

623138@gmail.com

cowboy, whoever, if you can help me, i beg you, write me. i NEED TO KNOW. you said that you wish you could unsee, i wish i could wish the same thing, i would risk damnation to know the truth, or the lack of it or whatever. please, contact me. i'm just starting down the path of magic, and i don't have any idea if it works, but it's worth a lifetime to find out. perhaps you could help me up, assist a 'karmic leap' if you will. please.

>>4669936
Almost as retarded as Christianity

rogablogadoganogginkins. superterrible - invert normal. cervical assault of the brains sex cavity. you are a tumor, a tree is another. an other refers to cryptic tales of ribald disdain of that which stands for all that is not imprecisely correct in the truest sense of oblique fashion, as it relates to model reliability. stoner-a-jonic.

>>4670109
Kid, judging from the way you type you are far from mature or responsible enough to understand what you are talking about. Suffice to say that Magick is very dangerous and being unable to control it will bring horrors which you cannot understand.

>>4670109
>believes in karma, magicks and is imagining things

Delusional, you are. Call 911 and tell them, it's no joke man, you could harm yourself or others.

>>4670438

then since you can't stop me, tell me what i should know. tell me. please. it's all i want, truthfully. it's all i want, to know that there is 'more then this' and then to aspire and to attain. tell me whats on your mind, please.

>>4670732
He means you should kill yourself, kid.

>>4670433

Well I think you misinterpreted Chaos Magick OP, the purpose of it was to remove the ceremony of magic, to disassemble it into its most basic elements and reassemble it in a manner that gave the most convenient power/effect. Sigils are just one manner of it's effect, and magic can work differently for different people. Most magicians get stuck in one paradigm and continue to work it (enochian, luciferian, Sufism, etc.) at the expense of all others. The root of chaos magic is the ability to change your faith and belief in any one paradigm at will, to be the master of your own ship sorta kinda. Chaos Magic is not about Sigils and glyphs, those are just tools, just like Shamanism, Energy Work, and a every other thing in the magical realm are tools of the Chaote. The thing about chaos magic is, you use what works. Not what other people say works.

The current theories of magic more or less state, that since we receive data from reality in the form of our sense, we are capable of transmitting data back to reality through similar channels. However we posses a psychic sensor in our conscious minds that prevents us from the necessary mental gang-bang power required to change the system. So we must perform slight of mind to get the spell past our conscious mind and into our subconscious without the conscious mind knowing what it is. That is where sigils come in, and every other form of ritual or spell craft. So in short, Magic works by uploading viruses back into the Matrix... I am barely refraining from a Neo reference right now XD

Oh yeah, I forgot, or maybe I didnt, Magic is dangerous. There is shit out there made/formed from/by minds far bigger, far older, and far more twisted than yours or mine out there. If you get scared easily, you will probably be screwed, you will eventually get into a spiritual fight, and there is no guarantee it will be human, or even comprehensible to you or I. On that note, good luck, and remember the brighter you burn, the more things will see you and want your light for themselves :p

>>4669714
>anger
>logical
Whatever you say.

Newcomer to the thread, and I'm too lazy to read them all, so I may be repeating but I"m just replying to OP's ... OP...

Magick is very simple. Magick is wanting something badly enough and then allowing yourself to have it.

Magick is a 4 year old, who doesn't know humans can't fly, that jumps out of his window and spreads his arms and soars away to neverland.

Magick is allowing your mind to open up, and letting the energies, and Danu fill you up and take you away.

Owl Eyes
Druid of Danu

>>4668045
MAGNETS NIGGAH

>>4669231
Scientists used to believe that objects heavier than the airwouldn't fly. They also believed that the human body would collapse at speeds superior to 15 mph.
Nobody gives a flying fuck about your beliefs, especially because you're not even a scientist.

>>4670830
>>4670814
>>4670783
So, the influx of retards is already here. How amusing...

>>4670873
Since then we have gained new information and new research was made that proved all those things. However, magick doesn't exist for one reason. You want to believe you can change the world doing basically nothing. This is not how the world works. If you want to change the world then start with yourself, that is, stop believing in fairy tales and become an adult. Only then you will see how the world really works.

>>4670906

Scientifically speaking... we have two sides of the same argument. One side says, "magick cannot exist, because it doesn't make sense" and on the other side we say "Magick does exist, we know it exists we were told so, and we can do it"

Both sides have an astronomical amount of people that cry their side is ultimately right.

So, scientifically speaking, it would be ludicrous to believe that either side was ultimately wrong completely.

Perceptions of magick make a huge difference when speaking about whether or not it is real. You say it is not, so for you perhaps that is so. But for me, it absolutely is real.

Though your right, you don't get something for nothing. Everything is balance. You have to give of yourself, in order to receive the rewards of faith and magick.

Fuckin magnets, how do they work?

>>4670935
Scientifically speaking, there's so such thing as "magic". It exists only in tales for little children. If you want to prove that something exists then go on. Do it. Make my computer screen flicker or something. If you can't then shut up.

>>4670906
Yeah, and we won't gain new information, we know everything there is to know, now. Just so you know, your ideological babble is infantile and tiresome. I believe you'd gather less anger preaching to the choir. You'd feel better about yourself, and the anger of your youthful insecurity wouldn't possess you.

>>4670959
>hurr durr magic doesnt real cuz you cant fireball
lol, you sir are fuckin flat earth stupid.

>>4670975
>hurr durr magic exists cause i can't fireball

Wait, what?

>>4670906
I am way older than you, little fuck, and if I can tell your psychic abilities second guessing other people need lot of work.

>>4670959
You're making a fool of yourself, that's something you don't know, see?

>>4670965
The only one getting pissed here is you, 'cause you have nothing to back up your belief in "magic". Oh, and we don't know all there is to know, there is still stuff that needs explaining in different fields of physics, also the Big Bang theory needs looking into, for we can't explain what was before Big Bang, where did the singular point of infinitely dense matter come from. inb4 god and all that bullshit

>>4670876
Say's the poster who has never read any of the books on Chaos Magic. Read Liber Null & Psychonaut some time, shit works.

>>4670986
>>4670998
Why are you so butthurt? All I asked for was a proof and all I got are some pissed off neckbeards still without anything to back up their claims. So... are you gonna deliver that proof or not? If not, then magic does not exist.

>>4671007
I am not pissed. Also, I'd like to tell you that telling people to shut up is not civilized or a valid argument. I suggest you meditate about the relationship between your lack of civility and argument and your failure in life.

>>4671024
Let me tell you, young man, for a scientist, you assume too much. I suggest you read some Jung, on the subject of shadow and projection. There's no objective reason for you to taunt people who don't agree with your beliefs.

>>4671035
So, I fail at life 'cause I don't belive in your outlandish story of power from nowhere. Clearly, you got a valid reason, sir. Also, don't tell me you got so hurt by me telling you to shut up if you can't provide proof, for that's the only way to end a discussion that has no sense whatsoever. If you can't provide proof then there's nothing to talk about, as we both know what that means.

Oh Lawdy is this sum Occultic Nerd Rage?

i can proof no problam.

>>4671055
So, you consider a book written by some guy who voiced in it his personal beliefs to be a final answer to everything. Is there any serious research or only some philosophical babbling?

>>4671062
>>4671024
ok, here is proof 4 you; there is this magic ritual that always works, but you have to do it yourself, you up to it? that would be proof.

>>4671097
Yea, just write it down. Let's see your magicks.

>>4671062
>>4671024
what about the Tesla theories of infinite energy around us, what if magic use that energy as a source of power.

[spoiler]well I don't know a lot of Tesla and my opinion is based on something a vaguely remember[/spolier]

>>4671099
ok, so its a 2 months long ritual, you must first build an altar and keep it sacred; you tell nobody about it, you treat it with the most holy you can think of, no profanations, nothing like that. a fuckin sacred altar, you with me?

>>4671130
Never heard about it, but I don't really know a lot about Tesla either. Maybe he meant the lightning, for example? He was obsessed with electrity. Also, he could mean converting matter to energy. As we know, if a particle and anti-particle meet then both disappear and all is left is pure energy. If we could somehow utilize that in the future, then we could use that technology to get rid of trash, nuclear waste and all the useless stuff.

Also, a massive source of power is nuclear fusion. But, we can't make the process efficient here on Earth, for it requires massive temperature and pressure to begin. We would use more energy to start it then we'd receive.

this thread is still alive..lol

>>4671169
Hm the altar is fine, can it be an Elvis presly altar or something? Would make it more fun.

>>4671180
ok i see you wont do it anyway; u aint nothing but a hurr durr.

>>4671174
its called anihillation i believe
big bang theory is based on deanihillation as far as i know /which is the opposite if you didn't figure it out/

>>4671193
dont stop, i am listening

>>4671194
Of course. Deannihilation, so, pure energy converting into matter. But then, how does that happen? And where did that energy come from? There are still many questions left unanswered.

>>4671062
My question is, why people who don't agree with your model of the universe elicit such an angered reaction from you. The problem is not magic or people who believe in it, the problem is you. If you were so sure of your beliefs, you wouldn't be trying to force them on people who clearly are not interested in them. Your attitude doesn't make any difference in my life, except for the fact that you're disrupting a conversation that interests me. But your attitude wreaks havoc on your life, since it prevents you from socializing with other human beings. I don't care if you shoot yourself tomorrow, but I believe you shouldn't be annoying other people. First because it's annoying, second, because it's a sign that you have psychological issues that you clearly don't know how to manage.

>>4671220
maybe in a couple of years there will be answers
we just have to be patient

>>4671223
Wait, wait, Speedy Gonzales. I'm not forcing them, I'm just asking for a proof, a chance to prove me wrong. But since there is no proof... I can easily dismiss it as another kind of religion, which it is. The rest of your post is clearly projecting your own problems on me. I assure you I'm not feeling bad enough to resort to believing that everything can be changed by wiggling your fingers.

Shit, and I was worried that after I left for work nine hours ago something good might come up in the thread and I'd miss it. Instead, all the trolls woke up and found that they had nothing better to do than to shit up the thread with their idiocy. Guess I was way off target.

Oh, >>4670109, cowy's a dangerous man, don't follow his advice. He's not doing magic because he's not doing thaumaturgy, and if you try to apply his theurgical conclusions as thaumaturigcal techniques, you'll be fucked. Not in the good way.

Just read this passage today, seems relevant.

623138@gmail.com

i reiterate my request for assistance.

>>4674669
check your email

magnets

ohhhhh, dear GOD

anyone who spells magic with a k is a homofag

first ok, magic is properly spelled magick. its was since the beginning of time. second of all, you can control magick, but its not really fast working. magick is from the earth, and needs to be used for good.

well... does it penis?

anyone who uses the term "homofag" is THE SMARTEST COOLEST PERSON ON EARTH!!!!

>>4671220
>>4671194
> deanihillation
>not a word
For those bad at english, annihilation is the complete destruction of something, so "deannihilation" would be...nothing happening.

>>4675570
it used to be a way of distinguishing people who knew about the shit from those who dont but too many kids these days spell it like that, like the OP here

>>4675633
hooommoooofaaaggggg im gay

>>4675610
Please cite a source at least half as old as the beginning of time re: spelling.

>>4668740 if it says the blood of a black cock you get the fucking blood of a black cock
There is no part of that sentence I don't like.

>get the fucking blood of a black cock

>>4675658
>>4675704
implying black cock doesn't mean a rooster with black feathers

>>4675739
Obviously that's what it means. If black cock meant what it sounded like, I'd be the most powerful witch of them all.

>>4675799

623138@gmail.com

listen, please write me soror. i am an aspirant, i need help. please write me. if magic is real, it's worth my life, literally.

>>4675799
Can you please elaborate on this joke, as I'm not sure I fully understand it.

Smoke & Mirrors, Misdirection, and Gullible people.

>>4676256
...but enough about skepticism and atheists...

>>4668279
Agile minds often come to similar conclusions or at least models of the world whatever discipline they start in. For instance, note the similar "feel" in Buddhism, Kabbalah and quantum mechanics; i.e. the essential non-reality of all that we experience in the face of some underlying reality.
Religion, like science, is an attempt to explain the world that we experience. The primary difference is that religion is not as concerned with "why" as with "what".
Similarly, Magi(c|k|ck) is much like technology in that it seeks an effect from a specific action, but in using technology, one usually understands at least on some level why an action produces a particular result.

ITT: nothing of value.

OP navigate your browser to OCCULTCORPUS.COM

>>4670109
lol. You are a huge faggot
>>4670864
That's not magic thats determination. Unless your talking about wishes, Because i wished I had two cocks for over 20 years, and I do allow it to happen, yet I still have only one cock. THeory disproven.

I also want a ham sandwhich, I allow myself to have one. Must be magic and not me going to the fucking fridge and making one than eating it. IN other words magic is any mundane activity you perform in your day to day life? SHUT YOU FUCKING FAGGOT MOUTH.

>>4668045
Well, when you can't even spell MAGIC right, it's very improbable that you have the mental capacity to understand MAGIC or utilize MAGIC in any way.

>>4668747
so... we are the demons?
brix shat

1. Regarding magic:
-discussion of magic as an academic subject should definately be allowed in the same way that discussing historical texts or anything that people in the past did or believed for religious rights.
-being a complete lying faggot, and claiming you have magic powers should be shunned and looked down upon on this board. Should also result in a ban. Magic is an interesting subject to discuss. It's not interesting when little faggots roleplay on our /x/.

>>4668747
No we are telling the magical fairyboy OP, that his Chaos magic, which by all definitions that I could find is basically chanting nad drawing circels on the ground, will effect the universe by manipulating rules, bending them, or breakig them; we are telling this faggot. That he doesn't have enough energy to bend higher dimensions. He is talking about picking what the outcome of hte future is. since all possible timelines and possibilities of all possible universes exist simultaneously what the fuck can he manipulate?

>>4677122
so you want a decaffeinated /x/ where you just speak about some creepypasta fake stories? If you weren't so full of yourself and your beliefs you could be able to open yourself to a reality you wouldn't suspect. But you know what? You never will, faggot. Fuck you.

Its pathetic in this thread that people request proof like "make my screen flicker and it will be a proof". So first you know NOTHING about how magick works -or you wouldn't make such a request-, then you accuse magicians of not delivering the proof to prove YOUR WRONG CONCEPT about magick. What does it tell about your critical thought, beliefs, and your relationship with science? Yeah, it tells you smartasses have none.

>>4677456
>That he doesn't have enough energy to bend higher dimensions.

You don't know a flying shit about the human mind, and this is exactly the turning point where your argument becomes just useless babbling

>>4677076
mother fucker i have to say it again. IT IS PROPERLY PRONOUNCED MAGICK! MOTHER FUCKER! its been like that for centuries but america had to go and fuck it up. if you spell check it will say magic, but thats because spell check does not know Latin, and yes magick is Latin was the first language ever! not English. and you wouldn't even know anything about magick because you haven't even practiced it. i have for 5 years. my god the human brain is slowly rotting in todays society

>>4677122
This.
>>4678702
So enlighten us. What is magick, and how come you can't prove it to us?

James Randi is gay

Voldemort is the bestest magicman.

James Randi loves penises

>>4680926
magick is energy from the earth. it has different properties. thats the basic sum. now i cant get you to believe me because honestly, your to stubborn to be moved. but i have had experiences. i have been studding wicca for the last 5 years. i have become a rev of wicca, but idk if you even care. post back if you want me to keep on going

science is a lie

>>4668045
You'll have better luck if you spell it as magic. Srsly.

You can't take /x/ seriously anymore, OP.

>>4681038

Mmmm.... k?

>>4676185
She's talking about penises.

>>4681044
Good, you're at least considering it.

>>4680972
I'm not being stubborn. I'm a sceptic but I'll gladly admit I'm wrong.
It's just if you claim that people can have supernatural abilities they can control, why hasn't it been proven in a controlled environment? Why aren't people out there using it to make money or help people? And don't say 'they are', something this big couldn't exactly be covered up.

>>4681092
well, we are afraid of being persecuted. i mean go back to the Salem witch trials. people still think that it is bad, that it has something to to with the devil, which it doesn't. and we are afraid that we will be persecuted for it, and maybe even killed by some god loving person.

>>4681106
That wasn't actually the first /x/ post of 2010. I know this, because I was there when that image was made.

>>4681119
If you were going to be persecuted, you'd already be persecuted for even claiming to practice it in the first place. Quit hiding behind the witch trials; those had nothing to do with religion(!) anyway.

>>4681092
Only if you prove that you love me.

>>4668045
are you kidding me. it had everything to do with religion. the catholic church said we are an abomination to gods eyes, and that we followed the devil. and the reason why im saying that i am wiccan is because i know you cant hurt me, you dont even know who i am. and i can say this on here, knowing nothing bad will happen

>>4680972
Wiccans don't practice magic or even know what it is.

They PRAY to gods, and call it a magic spell. How the hell is that magic?

There isn't actually any difference between "the old gods" and the Hebrew god. There's nothing inherently "occult" or "magickal" about pagan gods. They just happen to not be Christian.

So... Congratulations, you've found religion. God bless you.

>>4681170 the catholic church said we are an abomination to gods eyes, and that we followed the devil
>we are an abomination
>we
I'm not even going to dignify this with a rebuttal until you change "we" to "they."

This threads bout magic not religion.

>>4669232

>Also, before 1920 noone thought atoms existed, until quantum mechanics arrived.

Public Education in America must really, really suck. The non-word "noone" aside, the idea of atoms goes back to the 5th century BCE.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomism

Quantum Mechanics as the start of knowledge of atoms!?!?! They'd already blown up atomic bombs before it became accepted by most scientists.

The SciFags say their world is based on FACTS, yet they play very fast and loose with them. Making them up even if needed it seems...

I am not
>>4680926
but would like to hear more of what you have to say. I am the newest of students, but have a certain amount of experience with the inadvertent consequence of my own will and my connection to this "energy" that we love to bicker about ITT.

>>4681179
are you kidding me.... we do use magick. and yes there is a huge different between our gods and goddesses then the Hebrew gods. can you please do some research before you say anything! newfag.
>>4681191
ok, i can see where you are at with the they and we thing. i said we, because even now they still think that. and i said we in the context of me and the other wiccans.

>>4681236
If you were really a Wiccan, you'd know that Wicca doesn't have "gods and goddesses." It has ONE god and ONE goddess.

Now get the fuck out of here, you silly Barnes & Noble Silver Ravenwolf piece of crap.

>>4681284
ok the thing is, in wicca there is a god and goddess. but also you can have the Greek, Egyptian, and roman gods and goddesses, but the god and goddess represent them. it depends on who's god and goddess do they represent.

>>4681236 there is a huge different between our gods and goddesses then the Hebrew gods
Way to miss the point.

Yes, they're "different." But there's nothing inherently magical about them. When people worshipped those gods in antiquity, it wasn't to play wizard. They didn't imagine that they were performing sorcery. They were doing exactly what Christians do when they pray to God.

When you pray to another god and call it witchcraft, you're actually being extremely disrespectful. Insulting, even. How do you think a Hindu would feel if you told her you incorporate Kali into all your Harry Potter tea parties and that she's the "queen of witches"?

>>4681337 you can have the Greek, Egyptian, and roman gods and goddesses
What about the Etruscan gods and goddesses? And the Sumerian ones?

All these cultures covered the Mediterranean and Middle-Eastern lands, right? But what if we go farther north? Are Celtic, Germanic, Norse, Slavic gods cool too?

We seem to need an organized system through which we can focus our own energies and those around us into productive results in our own lives. I would not use magic for the purpose of harming another person; there are much simpler ways to do that. I want to undertsand the process better though, and everyone seems to have different ideas as to the practice and application of what we are calling magic. Tell me in a levelheaded manner, without faggotry, what your magic(k) entails, /x/.

>>4681343
first of all, i face palmed at that. second of all when doing witchcraft, sorcery, magick, what ever you want to call it, i am not praying! i am using herbs, oils, incense, energy from the earth, to do magick. not praying!!! and whats with the fucking queen of witches and harry potter tea party? wtf? i think you have an i.q of 26. dont try to sound smart when your not. my gosh.

>>4681361
yes those are cool too. i just didn't know about them, or forgot to mention them. thank you for telling me ^_^

>>4681398
What if cross the Urals? Are Hindu, Buddhist, Shinto gods okay too?

Or would they be off-limits because those religions are still ­practiced so they aren't part of "the old gods"?

>>4681408
yea i guess, but i dont know if the practice wicca.

>>4681414
So let's see what we've established here.

Praying to God = prayer and not magic.

Praying to Greek, Egyptian, Roman, Etruscan, Sumerian, Celtic, Germanic, Norse, Slavic, Hindu, Buddhist, Shinto, gods = LOL MAGIC!

Doesn't this prove the point I was trying to make in the first place? I bet you can't think of anything that ALL those pagan gods and religions have in common. They're just considered "magic" simply by virtue of the fact that they aren't Christian.

P.S.: "I bet you can't" is not rhetorical. That's an actual challenge, and I'm done if you can't answer it.

P.P.S.: "They're pagan" is not a valid answer.

>>4681487
omg how many times do i have to say this.... WE DONT PRAY TO OBTAIN MAGICK! we do rituals to show appreciation for the gods and goddesses, but we dont pray to them for magick. LISTEN!!!

>>4668935
As above, so below

oh i can, first off, all wiccans are pagans are wiccan but not all pagans are wiccan. second, pagans can have any religion they want, or no religion at all. this means any god(s) or goddess(es) they want to believe in, but they all use magick. thats how they are all in common.

>>4681537

that all wiccans are pagans are wiccan.

sorry i had a typo, its all wiccans are pagans.

People who don't believe in "magic(k)":
A) Have not actually given it serious effort or put any time in valid research.
B) Rather be instructed and told what to believe
C) Do not have a powerful will
D) All of the above

[Please circle one]

BORN AGAIN HEATHEN REPORTING!!!

>>4681562
E) has done research, has done things using magick to have personal experience, and is not told what to do or believe, but has free will to do what they please, and believe in what they want to, but choose to believe in magick, to obtain the energy it holds. i choose E

>>4681390 i am using herbs, oils, incense
>>4681513
When a Catholic nun does a rosary prayer, is she actually casting a spell because she has a beaded necklace in her hands?

Praying with props is still praying.

>>4681562

>>4681562
oh im sorry, i thought it said that DO believe in magick

>>4681568 AMON AMARTH FAN REPORTING
Asatru is just another stupid religion where you pretend to worship the "ancient pagan" gods you just learned about in high school history class.

>>4681583
ITS NOT PRAYING!!! you son of a... do you not listen?!

>>4681594
i know. im sorry, i thought it said DO believe in magick, but i corrected my self. you are totally right

>>4681595 If I hold a yew branch while praying to God but call him Zeus instead of God, I'm a WIZARD!

Hey guys, what if the pagan Gods and Goddesses are actually states of mind, or archetypes of consciousness which we tap into by paying them homage and constantly focusing on them?

>>4681607
Wouldn't it actually be an Oak branch?

>>4681607
its NOT PRAYING! HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THAT?! we dont ask for permission to do magick, we dont pray when doing magick, we create things when using magick, like healing potions, protection wreaths, etc... so guy, just give up, cause your not gonna win you godbother.

>>4675617
yes, yes it does.

>>4681595
>>4681606
>>4681607
>>4681627
You are so offended that people are saying your magic is prayer. I am sure if there are any christians ITT they will be just as offended when I say that prayer is just another kind of spell.

the main difference seems to me that in the judeo-christian sense, one offers obedience and supplication to God in exchange for the "answering of your prayers". When one is casting a spell the gods are asked for support and guidance in whatever the end of the spell might be, but that the practitioner's will is responsible for the content of that spell, whatever it may be. Prayers for personal gain are frowned upon, but spells not necessarily as long as no one is willfully harmed to forward your goals.

Anyway, I think there is a lot of hypocrisy in any belief system. My belief is that whatever the forces we refer to as gods may actually be, they/it was there before we named it, so splitting hairs about the difference between ceremonial magic and taking communion is narrowminded and short-sighted. As meat-beings we seek to connect with a non-physical (not even going into celestial, astral, diabolical etc) force that tells us we are right and that we have meaning. Ultimately I believe it is the responsibility of my own will and talent to give me meaning, though it is through this that I have made a connection with this larger consciousness, and am just beginning to understand the invisible force of whatever you would like to call what I am doing.

Discuss.

Why are we talking about magic without sum Freeman?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7932329281477783256#

what do arguers say to this?
>>4681741

bumperz