STANDING HERE

>>180321145
xD nice one epic bro

Seriously go fuck yourself.

Well OP, I think its TIME TO LEAVE THEM ALL BEHIIIIND

He enjoys all the killing, that's why.

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>>180321314
>>180321145
If you epic memespouters don't have anything to actually contribute to this thread then you can fuck right off.

I'm trying to have a discussion about this game, I don't need any more forced meme shit.

the first Rising would have been about Frank Jaeger aka Gray Fox.

Then, Kojima's team thought about doing Raidens story between MGS2 and MGS4.
At some parts, you were suppposed to hold Sunny close to your chest while fighing.

AND THEN, Platinum happened.

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Eh, at least he doesn't look like Donte.

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>>180321472
And here I was going to go toe to toe with you on Raiden's character and here you post this.

I thought you were legit.

I thought you weren't just a troll.

You lied to me, why?

>>180321519
Yes, really I think this game was doomed from the start when Kojima got his writers together.

They couldn't write MGS5.
They couldn't write a Gray Fox game.
They couldn't write a MGS2-MGS4 Raiden game.

For fucks sake KojiPro needs to get their shit together.

>>180321472
BREAKING OUT OF MY PAIN

>>180321619
If anything, those two posts prove that image is entirely correct.

How dense are you?

He relapsed.

>>180321102 (OP)
"I AM NOW CURED OF MENTAL ILLNESS" is not how mental illness works.

And MGS4 never happened.

>>180321519
Rising was always about Raiden. Kojima said he would have made it about Jaeger, but Kojima commissioned Rising from his younger employees to see how they'd do without him.

NANOMACHINES

>>180321102 (OP)

But OP, Rose isn't real.

>>180321747
>"I AM NOW CURED OF MENTAL ILLNESS" is not how mental illness works.
Yeah NO ONE IS SAYING THIS you fucking retard.

He deals with it through the span of MGS2-MGS4.

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>>180321683
Seriously, why take your anger out on me?

I did nothing to you.

You just chose not to ignore people and got mad. I don't deserve your hate, I just wanted to discuss.

Somebody who is truly intelligent would have ignored them and waiting until somebody addressed them.

You made me sad, thanks.

I thought it was a good study on the role of the warrior, the reasons why people fight, the urge of self-preservation and leaving a legacy, and finally revenge and how that effects our lives.

Greentext this post all you want, I enjoy the game.

>>180321102 (OP)
Thank god OP, I'm screencapping your post for future reference because it fully explains WHY Rising ruined Raiden. Seriously, I'm just as upset as you are about them turning him into Dante 2.0

>>180321895
See:
>Raiden's problems in MGS2 about his past were solved in MGS2
>at the end of MGS4 anyway he resolves his issues

Seems like you're saying this, chap.

>>180322014
You're gonna have to explain to me how this game does any of that.

It's a simple action game with a shallow story, stop trying to make it something it isn't.

War is the only thing he is good at, like every important character in MGS.
Do you seriously expect him to flip burgers to sustain his family?

>>180322098
Need me to simplify my post?

He deals with his problems in 2 through the span of MGS2.
He deals with his problems in 4 through the span of MGS4.

There you go buddy :) If you need some more comprehension help I'm here for you

>>180322219
>Do you seriously expect him to flip burgers to sustain his family?
Yeah because this is the only job one of the three men who saved the entire fucking world could get.

Do you people not realize what Raiden's role was in MGS4? He was Snake's second man next to Otacon.

>>180322219
Well Rose can certainly get off her ass and do something too. I get by having a desk job, I don't see why Raiden has such a hard time being normal.

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Don't bother, it's just Quentin.

He went to shit in MGS4 anyway, who gives a fuck.

he became a ninja because lolkojima.

>>180322361
Rose offers combat therapy to soldiers.

That's literally her job in MGS4. That's probably a well paying job.

>>180322427
Good job contributing nothing to the thread. I bet you feel great don't you?

>>180322252
He never dealt with his problems.

He enjoys murdering people.

When did he suddenly get over this?

Go ahead. Try me.

>>180322252
Mental Illness is not a videogame.
>Confronted inner demons!
>+10 Sanity restored!
>Reunited with Lost Love!
>Replenish full sanity!
Sanity is not pokemans

>>180322331
>Who saved the world
nope.
They just got rid of the patriots.
The world is the same as it was before them.

>>180322508
so then the "Sustain my family" is a bunch of bs and Platinum/Kojipro can't write a character to save their lives.

>>180322545
>>180322515
It looks like the Rising kiddies who have never played an MGS game before have entered the thread finally.

>>180321145
Go fuck your self, I like the game too put OP makes a good point so either retort or fuck off.

>>180322610
You know, this thread could have had some pretty good discussion. If you can't refute, don't say anything. Please.

>>180322592
Of course it's bullshit.

He just wanted to get away from Rose

>>180322559
>They just got rid of the patriots.
Yeah because Liquid's Insurrection isn't totally the main plot of the game.

Shutting down the patriots was only needed in order to defeat Liquid.

>>180322361
Cyborg maintenance is expensive bro, also ever meet a guy whos skin is convincing as a 'real skin' fleshlight? Probably not real looking.

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>>180322545
>hasn't played Eternal Darkness

>>180322657
I've yet to see ONE PERSON offer an argument to the points in the OP.

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>>180322610
All too easy.

>>180322732
That's because the OP is right. Rising DID ruin Raiden. Gameplay being good or not, you cannot deny that they fucked him up. Still a great game though.

>>180322732
You are blind then

>>180322819
Yes and when you put it within the context of the entire plot of MGS2, he resolved this issue.

I thought Rising was a bad idea. And guess what Platdrones, re-playability is just artificially prolonging your fun.

>>180322694
Liquid's objective was to destroy the patriots in the first place.
The insurrection was just a cover.

>>180322904
Explain your statement.

Because he didn't.

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>>180322252
>He deals with his problems in 2 through the span of MGS2.
This is bullshit, because for the vast majority of MGS2 you're not aware he has any problems. Fuck, if you don't save often you'll never even get the Codec convos about Jack not opening up to Rose. When you get to the end Snake gives him some advice about claiming his own identity, and the enjoying killing thing is never really addressed after Raiden brings it up. Snake just says "there's no good part about killing" and that's that.

>He deals with his problems in 4 through the span of MGS4.
He again spends most of MGS4 running away from his problems, and by the epilogue he still hasn't gotten over them. It takes Kojima pulling a happy ending out of his ass to make Raiden willing to BEGIN facing his problems.

In MGR he thinks he's gotten over his identity crisis but Sam and the Winds of Destruction drag that shit right back out of him. There's nothing unbelievable about it. It's not out of character. And his character wasn't ruined by MGR, not unless you first concede that MGS4 ruined it first and to a far greater degree.

GAY BOY
BACK TO THE /S3G/ WITH YOU

>>180321102 (OP)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayYNByLX8eA

here's a pretty good review. Tears the game a new asshole over the things that are legitimately bad, but recognizes all the things that are good at the same time

>>180322819
Snake enjoys killing people.
Liquid knows this.

>Implying you can forget about your childhood
>Implying you can solve issues by killing somebody
>Implying you'll never remember about your childhood
>Implying your childhood doesnt' lead to the man you become today

This topic is retarded and is now about STANDING HERE, I REALIZE~

>>180323084
This is actually where I've gotten some of my points from.

>>180321472
> epic memespouters
> post that shit
OH THE FUCKING IRONY

>>180323110
Such is the fate of all MGS protagonists.

to be honest, Raiden was just doing his job up to the exact moment he saw the room with the brains in it.

the camera even does that psycho zoom out thing where the background goes further back making it look like the room is getting bigger. HINT HINT

he then realized that even though he put his demons behind him, other people were being put through the exact same shit he went through, repeatedly.

like, he started to remember all those bad things, and then started to realize they were being forced on hundreds of children at the same time.

then, as he's watching kids die around him, he's egged on to kill a child, by the child himself

that broke him.
he immediately goes crazy, goes on a rampage, is told his rampage is MAKING THINGS WORSE, and decides just to FUCK EVERYTHING

sure its fast and sure its only covered through codec conversations, but raiden actually talks to doktor about how dissapointed he is in himself for chopping up a kid. Even though it was the right thing to do and even though the kid was ok in the end he's still kicking his own ass about it, to the point where its clearly just his own mental breakdown making things worse.

Well this thread went down the shitter ridiculously fast. Troll threads have work to do, because threads like this - that look like they actually might be a good conversation - only for the OP to shove his head straight up his ass like this is a lot more angering and depressing than any other thread could be.

>>180323194
But it's true, you CUHRAZE faggots are awful now, christ you guys even think vanquish is the best shooter just because of a gimmick and flashy QTEs.

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>>180322732
Raiden did deal with Jack, but when he cuts the professor in the kiddy brain lab in two he feels that Jack is still in him.
When you stop smoking, and 4 years later smoke a cig you remember the good times.
Old habits die hard.

>>180323474
Quit projecting faggot.

>>180323425
OP here. this is the first post I've ever seen with this sort of argument. This would make the plot much more acceptable.

But I feel like they overhyped the whole Jack the Ripper persona in pre-release phase that the personality shift isn't meant to actually be a result of that.

>>180323447
> someone disagrees with you
> respond by calling them a kid

As much as we talk about drones on here the people bashing companies and the player base are usually worse

>>180323190
>I cant' make my own points
>So I take someone elses
>When it comes to defending those points, I can't because they weren't mine to begin with.

Good lord OP, you're the most retarded person on the internet right now.

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>>180323842
Well you sure assume a lot, don't you?

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>>180321102 (OP)
>It's as if to you people MGS4 never happened.

Snake and Otacon were originally supposed to be executed for treason, and that was changed. Pretty much everyone in the MGS universe got a typical happy ending sloppily tacked on by the end of 4.

While Rising's storytelling isn't something I'd say is brilliant, I prefer it to him being a shadow of Solid Snake and becoming the third cyborg Ninja in a row.

Raiden's character needed adjustment, and I will never understand how people can honestly say Rising "ruined his character." Raiden had little to no character in MGS2 other than being the walking example of the S3 program; he was a clone of Snake in an attempt to mass produce them. Later, he was just the third man in the suit.

Beyond that, Rising hits an actually interesting note about characters in the MGS universe that is only briefly mentioned in the main series; Raiden may be "fighting for the greater good," but he's still a mass murderer. Rising goes the extra mile to remind you that not all soldiers are even aware of what World Marshal is up to, and that many of them are just vets looking for augmentation to continue working having received debilitating injuries after the war. They more or less contracted for augmentation, and just because they were on security detail one unfortunate day, had to have their spine ripped out by Raiden.

Monsoon even fucking asks "Who saves the weak from the man who saves the weak?"

I'm saying this as an MGS fan and a Rising fan; if you see no merit in MGR and are just happy with how everyone lived happily ever after in 4, I don't know what to tell you. You must like boring characters.

>>180323684

>Projecting

You should make sure you actually know what a word means before you use it anon.

>>180323910
Atleast I don't take somebody elses assumptions and present them as my own.

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Long post incoming:

Raiden's problems about his past were not solved with the killing of Solidus. He didn't accept his past, nor who he truly was. He killed Solidus cause he had to, not because he was getting over his past. Snake tells Raiden to go his own way, do his own thing and not try to be him. What does Raiden do? Fall into the same mistake he did before about trying to be normal and using escapism to squash his past and his problems to pretend he they don't exist. Him marrying Rose was an example of this. Let's be honest, she admitted to herself being a lie; he had no idea about who this woman was; however, he used marriage to try and "fix" that issues. Quick escape. Yes she was pregnant, but even then nobody with a sane mind would just jump the broom with a complete stranger, even if they were carrying their child.

Then we get to MGS4. Raiden is an emotional wreck because that safety blanket of Rose was pulled away from him. She was the one person he was attached to at the hip because of his low self esteem due to his past and the ever present thought of him being a monster. In his mind she's the best he can do and she gives him a false sense of happiness because she is a a false person since she wasn't true to herself in 2.

>>180324064
I didn't say I took ALL of them.

I just considered the points he made when making my own points.

Like you've never made an argument based upon the argument of someone else, I'm sure?

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>>180324164
So here we get the asspull miscarriage ruse and yada-yada till the end of 4 where it is revealed that he has a son. Raiden claims "I'm done running" which alludes to him wanting to take care of his family and play normal AGAIN thinking that'll solve his problems and that he could just live a normal life now that he has his kid.

Here comes Rising and Raiden is working as a PMC because he can't get a job anywhere due to people being freaked out about Raiden's fake skin. Sam, Monsoon, and Raiden's overly righteous compensation for his true feelings cause him to break his web of lies he surrounds himself with to give him a short term peace of mind. Raiden finally realizes that he needs to stop his bullshit and face up and smell the coffee. His past is his past and it will always be apart of him. Even though he was conditioned to feel pleasure during killing, he has two choices: he can break the conditioning that he was taught when he was a child OR he can channel said emotions into positive actions like he did destroying the VR Kamp for Kidz.

tl;dr version: Raiden's been wrapped up in a web of lies that he's made for himself for a long time. Rising was him realizing that web and slowly trying to cut through it so he can finally have some form of peace of mind.

>>180323698
im doing a run where i exhaust codec conversations every checkpoint

its a bunch of "GO TO THE NEXT OBJECTIVE" but suddenly theres really good shit about the game and the characters.

Raiden is upset throughout most of the first part because he killed a child in his own mind, even though he didnt. He's mad and depressed and actually hates that the kid talked to him and knew what he was doing.

then, when sam tricks him into thinking those voices are the voices of the soldiers who had no choice, he goes bananas, culminating in the monsoon fight.

it was psychological warfare. none of it was real but it was made to specifically fuck with raiden, and it worked

>>180324001
Flinging unfounded, baseless shit (ur CURAYZE, lol u liek vanquish) to a person in hopes to refute his arguments is textbook projecting stupid faggot.

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>>180324382
No, that's not what projecting is.

Projecting is calling someone else a fatass neckbeard when you yourself are a fatass neckbeard who refuses to accept that he is a fatass neckbeard.

Which is of course, what you probably are.

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This thread is a mess, Jack.

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>>180321102 (OP)

>>180324382
I was talking about CUHRAYZE faggots in general, and projecting is trying to deny your own faults by ascribing them to others you dense fuck.

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>>180324497
Nice projecting

>>180322724
It's different in ED, sanity is but a plaything of the eldritch magics of Xel'lotath. Nanomachines are getting to that level, but not quite yet.

>>180324497
>herp words can't evolve
You can project more than self image. You can project negative thoughts, prejudices and all that shit you feed inside your miserable self.
>fatass neckbeard
Yup. You are a projecting faggot.

>>180324175
No because unlike you I research what I'm talking about, and come to my own conclusions, not try to shoehorn in anothers because I don't have enough evidence.

>>180324659
Any news for MGR DLC? I'm already getting pretty board of it already, the short dev cycle really shows after a couple of playthroughs.

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>>180324756
>>180324794
>me
>a fatass neckbeard
LOL

>>180324795
How fucking retarded are you?

If someone makes my own point better for me, I'll rely on his.

>>180324869
Comes out on tuesday.
America PS3 only.

>>180324794
>words can't evolve
No they can't.

Unless you make them evolve which is fundamentally a bad thing for the English language.

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>all this projecting

>>180325092
They do evolve.
like memes.
MGR uses the original meaning.
"memes" nowadays means "le epic rageface xddddd comix"

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>>180325092
>insert joke about how autists can't accept change here<

MGR kiddies are rampant on /v/ now, OP, your thoughtful post will never be taken seriously

>>180324958
>that bookshelf

Fucking organize that shit.

>>180324958
>balding
>terrible skin
>dark undereyes
>hoarder

Can't stop laughing. It's all made perfect by the smug look on your face.

>>180324794
>Words evolve

No, they can be warped when some ones to much a a piss ant to admit they were wrong.

>>180325029
Wait, it comes out early you PS3 in America or it's only coming out for PS3 in America?

>>180325248
It's used since MGS2

Confirmed for MGR being his first MG game

>>180324996
If someone makes your point better than you, why don't let them do the talking? you are pointless

>>180325360
l'm using a more recent example, retard.

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>>180325331

>>180325248
No that's just people using the word out of context. In other words people being wrong, that's not a word reaching level 12.

I'm going to regret this, but here we go.

OP, Have you ever read the Odyssey? It's like that. Kojima basically took the Campbellan epic and flipped it on its head, ever since the character was introduced in 2. Basically, Raiden is a hero that goes through the hero's journey backwards.

In 2, when he was first introduced, he was an agent who just finished in his training. There was no call to adventure. Instead, he was introduced under the guise of Solid Snake, an accomplished agent who knew exactly what his goal was and how to accomplish it. When the player first laid hands on his skull suit, we all thought we were playing as snake. When it was revealed otherwise, we believed we were controlling a character of snake's caliber. There was a clear objective. There was a clear way to achieve it. This was a RESURRECTION. This was Snake, star of the first MGS, in a different form, but with the same gameplay.

Then, in MGS 2, we find out how convoluted shit became. Raiden started to doubt what was real and what wasn't. We find out about his background, and the virtual Colonel/Rose's betrayal. From this point, Raiden is slowly taken on a JOURNEY into the REAL WORLD - a world where he is a puppet being played by puppeteers.

>>180325407
Because posting videos on /v/ is a bannable offense.

How new are you?

>>180325498
You look like a mass murderer.

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>>180325498

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>>180325346
>No, they can be warped when some ones to much a a piss ant to admit they were wrong.
Check the word : Gay or faggot.
You're wrong.
Also warped and evolved are the same fucking thing in a different direction.

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>>180325531
>comparing MGR to Greek epics

>>180325092
Yes, because all languages are given us by God instead of having primitive roots that evolved during centuries of usage and intermingling.

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>>180325556
>being this new

>>180325584
>Gay or faggot
People still use the term homosexual to properly describe HOMOSEXUAL people.

If you use gay or faggot to describe them then you're probably a 12 year old who doesn't know what those words actually mean.

>>180321102 (OP)
>It's as if to you people MGS4 never happened

For most people that played MGR is might as well didn't as MGR was their 1st metal gear


You did it right this time btw Quentin thanks

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>>180325547

>>180325735
That's not the point, you shitdick.
>The word gay evolved from happy to homosexual.
>The word gay was warped from happy to homosexual.
Do you see it now? It means the same fucking thing so >>180325092 is buttfuck retarded by just calling it a different word.

>>180325605
Did he mention MGR?

>>180325498
>receding hair line
>thin hair
>acne is visible

You must be insecure if you're whipping out this photo.

>>180325926
>the word gay evolved from happy to homosexual
Nope, gay still means happy.

>>180325605
>muh ancient culture is on an entire different level
>how dare you compare anything to it
Pretentious faggot detected.

>>180325531

At the end of MGS 2, we find out that Rose, the REAL Rose, did have feelings for Jack, that it wasn't all just playing along. We also find out that despite everything, Raiden stopped a terrorist, discovered the truth, and was well on his way to leading a life that was HIS choice. In short, he WON HIS FREEDOM AS A REWARD.

Now we go to MGS 4. In MGS 4, we find out his doubts. We find out what he went through after receiving his freedom. We were shown the pains he went through after pulling himself together and the shame he felt in falling apart. We see him endure his ORDEAL. We also find out what he was up to - saving Sunny, fighting to protect what he thought was right, and crossing his FIRST THRESHOLD from child soldier into an ideal warrior. This THRESHOLD was also marked by a change of bodies - from meat to cyborg.

>>180325939
Honestly when I saw the word Odyssey I stopped reading the post and typed up my reply

>>180326024
Well then maybe you should calm down and actually read the post.

>>180325971
b8

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>>180325584
>Some words change meaning over thousands of years

>So I can just change Freuds theories to suit my self

>These are the same thing

>>180325498
You look bland as fuck.

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>>180326172
>>180325967
>>180325563
>>180325556

>>180325859
Even I could tell that was sarcasm.

>>180325926
It still hold it's original meaning you fucking idiot, now it just has more definitions. Fuck it I'm out, what can man do in the face of such idiocy.

>>180326234
Gotta hand it to Quentin, he's go one hell of a face.

Pity he's a shit cunt.

>>180326008

Next, as Solid Snake, we encounter Raiden. We receive his help, and help him in turn. He takes the test of what it takes to be resolute in the face challenge despite his background, and whether it's possible for him to leave that behind to fight for something greater. Though Solid Snake, he meets an ALLY. Through his battle with Outer Heaven, he meets his ENEMY. Through his battles alongside Snake, he faces his TESTS.

With Snake as his MENTOR and Obi-Wan, he crosses a second THRESHOLD. "You are the lightning in the rain". He finds his resolve, and realizes his purpose. He sees Rose, he sees his son, and though he is RELUCTANT at first to put his past behind and be united with his family, he does anyway.

>>180326345
he's got*

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>>180325967
>Admitting to being this new

>>180326113
Evolving is adapting to the environment, in species this meant evolution by natural selection.
Warping or being warped is being changed by an external force.
These can't really be used for words, so these guys used them to make their sentences look fancier. They both simply meant change though.

>>180325859
Buuuurn.

>>180326113
Go to the Psychological Projection wiki page retard. Not even academics don't give a fuck about your archaic definition of the word.

>>180326234
Dude, stop posting your fucking picture, this isn't Facebook.

>>180326237
Sorry i can't fucking tell anymore

>>180326413
Maybe he is just playing along
Maybe you're just too new to see it.

when is this thread gonna get BATSHIT INSANE!?!?!?!

>>180326420
Nice autism.

>>180326570
>people accuse me of being a neckbeard
>i post my picture showing im not a neckbeard
>DUDE STOP POSTING YOUR PICTURE

>>180326624
It already was batshit insane to begin with.

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>>180326624
This thread is why we can't legit discussion. Everybody thinks everybody is a troll and none of the good shit gets responded too for shit flinging.

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>>180326507
>Wiki

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>>180326624
Sorry I just want to post this.

>>180326610
Maybe I'm just playing along with the ruse and you're to new to see this. Maybe we're all new.

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I thought that pic comparing MGS threads to MGR threads was satirical.
I guess not, in fact, I think the thread in pic related is still up if you want proof of how retarded MGR fans are.

>>180326774
<lel cats
<talking about others shit finging

get lost faggot

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>>180321472
Don't use Quentin's material if you want to be taken serious

>>180326397

Now, I've just walked you through Raiden's character development as a reversal of the standard Campbellan epic hero. But one part is missing. One part is still unresolved. Where was Raiden's call for adventure?

When we started MGS 2, we didn't exactly get a motivation. There was no introduction. There was no CALL. Literally, a character we thought was Snake took off his mask and turned out to be a stranger, and we, as players, all rolled with it.

So where is this crucial start to every Campbellan hero?

Metal Gear Rising.

In Rising, as the name implies, we are taken to the last reversal stage of the Campbellan epic - Raiden's call to adventure. Like mythical heroes, he starts out with a good family, a solid future, and a steady life.

But things go wrong, and though reluctant, he is eventually forced to take up the call to arms. He is forced to take on the heroic role. Through this conflict, he understands the necessity of his actions - why he needs to be a hero and why the world NEEDS him to be a hero. He finds the confidence to answer the call, and in the end, we see that he accepts what he is, why he is needed, and how he should go about to fight for his own reasons.

That is why MGR concludes what Kojima started - as the final step in the Campbelllan reversal.

>>180326897
It's sad but true, MGR has an awful fan base.

>>180326779
>wiki is all lies
>gotta go to school library for basic shit

>>180326976
but he's right.

I'm excited for the DLC tomorrow. Is it still uncertain if the US gets Snake Sword?

>>180323032
great explanation

even at the end of MGS4 he is still reluctant, he considers himself a 'beast' still
That is not how a stable person would describe himself

>>180327007
... and I'm perfectly aware that I've just wasted my time typing all this out, by the way, since OP and by proxy most people in this thread are all trolls trolling trolls.

So no need to tell me.

>>180322545

That's actually EXACTLY how Winter Voices work. Look it up, fantastic indie rpg on steam.

The problem with the MGR fanboys is that they really wanted a DMC5.
Since they got DmC : Damage May Control Fuck You Edition, they got their hope on MGR.

Because of that, every time someone made a hate post on MGR, they started doing Sing-a-long to shut up saids hate posters.
It got out of hand.
While I like the songs and the game, you CAN'T discuss MGR correctly with the fanboys that keep pulling Sing-a-Long.

>>180327007
Like >>180326774 said, this is a thread where party A is pretending to be the retards they're accusing party B to be. An actual logical discussion about MGR has no place here, only

>>180327267
You caught me

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>>180321472

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>>180327007
>>180326397
>>180326008
>>180325531
>>180327267
Hmm. interesting take on Raiden's character. I don't agree entirely, but I still like it.

And don't worry, I did the same thing with mine. Maybe we'll get lucky and some non-trolls out there will see and reply.

>>180327267
I appreciate that you actually put the time into typing it up and applying this lens to Raiden as a character, but really you're looking too much into it. Raiden was never supposed to be a hero. He represented everything that a hero wanted to be, but couldn't be.

>>180327403
>your interpretation is WRONG

>>180327434
Quentin, whoever the fuck you are, quit tooting your horn I troll hard all day erryday nigga

>>180327335
>BAAW THEY RESPOND MY HATE WITH HATE
Grow up tard.

>>180327335
One guy's posted one lyric, if it's just MGR fans being retarded is INCREDIBLY dubious.

>>180321519
How would a Gray Fox game work, though? Did he do much of anything between his robotisation, and his death in MGS? Plus, there's the issue of the game being set earlier in the timeline, making it harder to shoehorn in crazy powerful cyborgs for him to fight.

>>180327487
I'm just saying I disagree with him.

Why does everything need to have an "I think" in front of it for you people to understand it's an opinion?

>>180327378
It happens and hey I saw them all if that counts.

>>180327403
Which is why he went through the Hero's Journey in reverse.

That is - he didn't start out as a hero, but he ended up as one.

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>>180327573
Yeah but I'm sure you agree with the lot of the insight, so you don't count at all.

>>180327608
But at the end of Rising he rejects his role as a hero.

>>180321542
>Eh, at least he doesn't look like Donte.
he still looks pretty edgy though

>>180327007
Huh, that's pretty interesting but I doubt that's true cause Raiden in MGS2 was probably supposed to represent the player and I'm sure you know about all that stuff.
Also, Kojima didn't write Rising.

But good on you for taking that away from the MGS games, that's exactly what Kojima wanted; for the players to find the meaning of the game for themselves, not having it shoved down their throats.

"Find the meaning behind the words, then decide."

I'm sorry, but I do not give a shit.

>>180327530
>Don't even hate both game, just prefer MGR over DmC by a mile
>State the fact that you can't discuss correctly with the fanboys because of the sing-along
>"Grow up tard."

I don't know who need to grow up the most man.

>>180321102 (OP)
Thank you, OP.
Raiden is not psycho, he's grown a lot through the MGS series.
Rising is not canon, so don't worry about it. We'll have the real Raiden back in MGS6.

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>>180327725
Actually no, he takes up his role as a hero, since he realizes that he cannot just go back home when there is still work to be done and still bad people that is messing up the world for everybody else.

yeah OP rising completely fucked up raidens character. I wouldn't mind if it wasn't canon but apparently it is so fuck everything

>>180327363
We need to go deeper.

>>180327545
Well, he killed Para-Medic. And he was significantly weaker than Raiden, so he wouldn't have to fight huge ass robots.

>>180327335
>While I like the songs and the game, you CAN'T discuss MGR correctly with the fanboys that keep pulling Sing-a-Long.
Yes, it's obvious that they're trying to recreate the DMC4 sing a long shit (which is cancerous enough). Awful awful fan base.

>>180327725

Did he really, though?

In the end montage, we find out what his position was, and what he decided to do.

We see Sunny explicitly call him out as being a hero, and our last shot of him was a Raiden with firm conviction - revealing his sword and fighting as his own man.

It's pretty hard to argue against him being heroic.

>>180327845
>Rising is not canon
apparently it is. though I have no doubt that kojima will ignore it when writing future games

>>180327845
but rising is canon you dumb fuck

>>180324958
Hilarious. You actually look even more like a douche than I thought you did.

>>180327878
>>180327845
>>180327806
>>180328006
>>180328029

Quick the shitstorm's dying down, samefag it back up.

well its not a sneaking game, but I enjoy it

As someone who liked MGS2 a lot; therefore being very impressed with it being heavily integrated in 4, I'm satisfied with MGR's setup as a branched off tale from the MGS series that focuses on Raiden.

>>180328006
I'd be legit surprised if Kojima made a game set after MGS4.

>>180327767

It all fits, though, if you take a look at it. There's no reason why representing him as the player and having him walk the anti-epic path is exclusive.

I mean, if you look at Raiden's characterization compared to snake's, you can clearly see the contrast.

M-MUH CANONS

>>180328097
u jes Mad I boinked ur mum last night

deal with it faget

>>180327941

Well Raiden did cut his own path while Armstrong followed his own wrath. But maybe they were both the same.

>>180328084
>scuss MGR correctly with the fanboys that keep pulling Sing-a-Long.
>Yes, it's obvious that they're trying to recreate the DMC4 sing a long shit (which is cancerous enough). Awful awful fan base.
>>>
> Anonymous 03/11/13(Mon)04:31 No.180327941
Thats a face that's seen many cocks in front of it

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>>180328097

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>>180328262

>>180328231

Yes. Even Armstrong's music reflects the "We are the same" theme that was central to the fight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjSew-z_fUI

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>>180328231
They were, and that's a key thing in Rising about Raiden. He finally realizes that his overly-righteous mindset to try and push himself as far away from his past and his enemies was nothing but bull to keep him in a false sense of security.

>>180328150
why? MGS 2 introduced raiden as the main character and MGS3 big boss. a future MGS could feature a new character going through future events

or snake dying was all a ruse because nanomachines

>>180328329
Well then learn to type well so it doesn't look like a poor attempt to deviate style of typing for more authentic samefaging. Also read the thread and reply in a civil way with an actual argument. It's super easy to tell you're just trying to start shit either way.

>>180328475
>or snake dying was all a ruse because nanomachines

Kojima wanted Snake to die at the end of MGS4, he's dead

>>180328159
Yeah but Kojima had the allegories in mind when writing MGS2, considering that he planned for it to be the last game, it's highly unlikely that he had the whole anti-epic path in mind.

I see the contrast between Snake and Raiden and I think that it's because Raiden, representing the player, feels inferior and wants to BE Snake in the same way we want to PLAY AS Snake.

It'd be odd if Kojima had wrote two different metaphors into Raiden, but it isn't anything that he wouldn't do.

>>180328568
nice damage control faggot.

>>180328150
After rising I hope they don't, I enjoyed the game but all the cyborg shit was just retarded. They have more than enough to work with pre MGR for the MGS games, lets just hope they realize that.

I still want a grey fox game though, and while I enjoyed MGR I don't want platinum involved. I want a fast paced lethal stealth game, in which you are fast and strong but also venerable against more that one or two enemies.

>>180328661
Kojima also wanted the series to end a long time ago and look how that went.

>>180321102 (OP)
>OK /v/ I think it's time we had an in-depth discussion about how this game ruins Raiden.

Opinions, a lot of players believe this is the game that finally fixes Raiden. As a character that was widely hated since his inception, you can´t put him in absolutes like "this game ruins him" without clashing with the views of others.

>First off, Raiden's problems in MGS2 about his past were solved in MGS2.

lol no, he clearly was still fucked in the brain, otherwise he would have stayed in home with Rose like Snake told him to, instead of joining a PMC, braking into Area freaking 51 and getting turned into a cyborg ninja.

>If Rising never would have happened, this is a fact and is not up for debate.

I'm sorry, did you meant MGS4 were you put "Rising" in there?

Also: LOL MY OPINION IS FACT DO NOT DEBATE K

>He closed that door in MGS2.
He said he would, but that doesn't set it in stone... just like some people in AA tend to say they won't drink again, getting over PTSD isn't as easy as just saying you will, sometime you fall back on your shit, like he clearly did because CYBORG NINJA

>He confronted his past and got revenge against Solidus when he killed him in Manhattan.
More like he like a good puppet did exactly what JD and the other AIs wanted/ordered him to do.

>He found love with Rose in the end of MGS2 as well.
Denial, she wasn´t even the Rose Jack fell in love with, not even hear hair and eyes were real.

>That closed the door on all of his demons that happened pre- and during MGS2.

Nope, he didn't look like a fixed person at all when he was stabbing himself in order ti cut Vamp as a killing machine in MGS4.

>>180328736
Yeah, it turned out it wasn't all samefagging and I explained myself, like a big boy. It doesn't explain you shit flinging right out of the gate. Also, shift key, capitalize your shit.

>>180328686
Well, here's the thing - we can't take author fiat as an element when doing a character analysis. We can't say "Spiderman in One More Day was shit because Quesada was a fuckhead".

It's important to understand that how we choose to interpret and analyze a character has no relation to the author's intent. We're not trying to second guess Kojima; we're trying to rationalize how Raiden grew with the games and how different pieces of his personality fits together into a coherent narrative.

There's no right and wrong here; only rational and irrational.

>>180328846
>Then we get to MGS4. For some reason a lot of people think that Raiden became an emo ninja because of his past as a child soldier.

He did, the ninja shit was forced on him, but he did become bitter and suicidal because of the Ripper days and the fack that Rose "lost" the kid and cheated on him with the Colonel, the Patriots fucking over his body, PSTD and the fact that he became Snake's shield because his own life was wortless to him now.

>Well you're wrong and again this is clearly explained in a codec with Rose. After MGS2, Raiden rescued Sunny from the Patriots and recovered the body of Big Boss/Solidus for Big Mama. Rose became pregnant but told Raiden that he had a miscarriage. Raiden, with his physical body fucked up and feeling depressed over losing his would-be child, became a violent drunk and so Rose left him. None of this has anything to do with MGS2 (besides Sunny) or with his childhood as a soldier.

BS, In the very same coded Rose tells Snake how after the marriage Jack began having nightmares and rememebering his past in Liberia, nice of you to left out that part to asure your (borrowed) arguments.

>>180329005
>And at the end of MGS4 anyway he resolves his issues with Rose and reunites with her and his son.

He says he won't run anymore, and he does exactly that in MGR, that's why he works in Maverick to suppoort them as a Security Advisor, perfect job for a fucking Cyborg Ninja... In every codec about his family he says ho much he cares about them an loves them, the fact that he's going to the extent he goes to protect other children like his son in MGR is also a proof of that. So his actions in MGR don't contradict at all his words in MGS 4 ending.

>So I'm not sure where the fuck you Rising fans get all this shit about Raiden going JACK DA RIPPA status is an OK thing and totally fits his character arc.
Did you missed the Children brains? the codecs about how he is actually saving them from becoming Rippers lik he did? the Stuff with the other cyborgs scared of Raiden in Denver? Moonsoon, Armstrong and Sam calling Jack on his on "Sword of Justice" Bullshit?

>It's as if to you people MGS4 never happened.
You seem to pretend it didn't happen in most of your points. Only for the fact that raiden is now a machien, and can never hope to live a normnal life even if he wants to, not to mention he already had that choice after MGS2 and still went into Area 51 instead

>JTR in MGR is useless anyway,
It's him takinga mature choice, and accepting the fact that he as a person or hero, is still flawed, he doesn't let the Ripper transform him into a villain, he uses it to fulfil his mission of rescuing the child soldiers and stopping Desperado and Armstrong.

>it doesn't even develop him as a character at all.
What? he goes from "My Sword is a Tool and I'm just doing my job" to "Going rogue, I won't let them create more Rippers and I'm ending the PMC economy" thanks to the Jack outburst.

There OP, now kindly got to bed.

>>180328925
nah you just got told and now are resorting to full on damage control. if you can't accept the truth it's time to leave 4chan, I heard r3ddit love the abomination of which is MGR so you could go there.

>>180328470
I interpreted it as raidens futile attempt to rid the world of bad guys by fighting for his ideals, when in the end He wasn't any differ than Armstrong. he realized this especially when running with his jack persona instead of trying to fight it anymore, and now the end he finds his new conviction and either finishes his war... or ends up realizing the only way to rid the world of bad guys is to be the strongest of them. I can honestly see raided unknowingly becoming the villain in the end of the risingtrilogy

When Rising 2 comes out, people are going to complain about how it ruins Raidens character from this game.

>>180329213
what character

>>180329213
Zelda Cycle strikes again.

>>180327725

The end makes it very apparent that the idea of a hero is subjective. Sure, Sunny and the Mexican see him as a hero, but that's not how he views himself.

Coincidentally, that's not how Solid Snake sees himself either. Think about that.

>>180329213
I wouldn't be surprised.

Hey OP did you forget about how Raiden ruined the character Solid Snake?

Poor guy is just never going to catch a break.

>raiden before: killing is bad and my past haunts me
>raiden now: lol fuck them I'm the reaper and they all deserve to die because they are the enemy. time to get mah cuhrayzee on

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It's fucking 4 am in the morning.
Don't you have something better to do?

>>180329452
confirmed for only playing the demo.

at least watch a let's play before shitposting.

>>180329452
If you played the game, y-WAIT, YOU'RE A TROLL.

Hey OP, is this you?
http://metagearsolid.org/2013/03/metal-gear-rising-revengeance-review/

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>>180329451
>Hey OP did you forget about how Raiden ruined the character Solid Snake?
Of course not.

>>180329516
>there is only 1 timezone in the world

>>180329530
>>180329531
I already hit the trap more than I should have, just ignore it and it'll post a different ploy and then ignore that.

>>180329554
In Metal Gear Solid 2.

>>180329516
lol it's 10:52 in hawaii you skunt

THE GAME IS SHIT BECAUSE DENVER HAD TOO MANY MEN'S SUIT STORES


inaccurate as fuck

>>180329632
Why did Raiden ruin Snake's character?

>>180329621
>>180329530
>>180329531
so you're saying that doesn't happen and it's not completely out of character? whatever

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Funny how no one said shit when MGS4 ruined the entire cast.

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>>180329334
interesting thoughts. I can't believe I'm posting this, but here I go.

>>180329740
it's canon though while DmC isn't

>>180329705
It's the future just telling it how it is. Buy stocks in A Taste of Denver.

>>180329730
People did say shit. They said a lot of shit and it's still one of the biggest hits that people throw against MGS4 being amazing today.

>>180329554
What am I looking at here?

>>180328568

I'm sorry, but I do not give a shit, and the reason behind this is OP's awful attempt at any sort of 'discussion', clearly desiring a one-sided 'discussion' on why Rising is terrible, and character assassination. There's few posts were looking at, and the one's that are, destroy the notion that Rising ruined Raiden's characters pretty competent and completely.

I'd suggest deleting it, but I doubt your ego would ever let you do such.

>>180329712

What exactly is out of character here?

That a guy who spent his childhood killing people has an aggressive side?

>>180329802
DmC is a reboot, it is the new Canon.

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>mfw people actually like the Metal Gear Solid franchise, a literal fanfiction of a Michael Bay movie

>>180329802
true... but in this case Metal Gear still gets its stealth action (in the form of Phantom Pain and Ground Zeroes).

Devil May Cry is very uncertain right now.

>>180329802

DmC is canon. We've been over this.

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>>180329730
A-a-are you serious?

EVERYBODY complains about how MGS4 ruined characters/ From Snake turning depressed, to Raiden turning ninja, to Vamp turning into NANOMACHINES and many others.

Have you been in ANY MGS4 threads?

>>180329858
DLC for a wooden sword with Solid Snake's soul in it. It says Snake quotes when you use it.

>>180329834

To be fair, the gameplay in MGS4 is amazing.

I have a big problem when people levy criticisms against Rising on the basis that it conflicts with MGS4, though. MGS4 itself pretty much took a big dump on the universe. Anything extending it past that is a welcome change by this point.

>>180329712
>doesn't think getting bodied by Sam a week ago had any influence in how he views pmcs especially ones he sees as associated with desperado.

I would have a vendetta as much as raided would, anyone caught in my way and all.

>>180329917
you mean the guy who was drugged and forced to spend his childhood killing and was later haunted by it and his title as the reaper suddenly doesn't gives a fuck and labels himself with the title that haunted him through out his life.

it's shallow and pedantic and only an excuse to show that raiden got his cuhrazee on

>>180329983
no it's not, it's a reboot.

>>180330136
see
>>180330180
there is no real reason why he would suddenly change

>>180330053
Don't get me wrong, the gameplay in 4 is absolutely amazing but it never feels like you can just fall into the gameplay like you could in the other games. It always felt like you were standing on the edge of a diving board and was about to jump but then life reset and bam there you were looking up at the ladder again.

Maybe it was the acts that was the cause of that, I don't know; however, in my book it's another sad part about 4.

>>180330264
see
>>180324164 and >>180324328

>>180329882
I was telling off a guy who said in all lower case "you're right op, fuck that game", ignoring every logical argument in the thread. I noticed thing were cooling down and then suddenly five posts happened all trying to start shit. I'm not even OP, I'm on my very hard playthrough of Rising. Christ that RAY.

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>>180330050
Wait, platinum games, in a canon game are putting the soul of solid snake in a wooden fucking sword? No, I can't fucking deal with it.

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>>180329949
TMNT?

>>180330278
>Maybe it was the acts that was the cause of that,
Well yeah it really was that.

>>180330278
the bad thing about MGS4 is that it tried to emulate modern day movies while previous games tried to emulate older movies

>>180330320
Stop fucking replying to him, he's obviously retarded.

>>180330320
I read that, it's wrong

>>180330326
nah you're just a faggot who got told then resorted to ad hominems and sidetracking. you're the worst kind of poster here.

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>>180330459
Well read this loser!

>>180330327
Did you got frustrated when the Patriot gun started playing MGS3 theme every time you shot?

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>>180330459
Why?

>>180330180
He never did this.

He was CLEARLY (as in - blatantly obvious) struggling with the dichotomy of his past.

He was CLEARLY fighting his conscience on whether there was something worthy of salvage in his Jack the Ripper persona.

Did you miss the part where he was struggling so much to come to terms with himself that he couldn't even lift his sword?

You must have missed all of that.

>>180330327
To be fair the Grey Fox Costume and Fox Blade can't really be canon, so it sets a precedent for DLC like this being not canon.