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>>179625738 (OP)

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>>179626021
I agree, this is now a Rydia thread

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>>179626210
Damn straight.

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We don't. It's fine. You think it's bad because you probably only play FF.

OP's image reminds me of Desian bases in Tales of Symphonia

Since they're just strategy games and have nothing to do with roleplaying, update them to play as good as any other strategy game, either Japanese or Western

So really, just do away with the JRPG genre lol.

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>>179625738 (OP)
>what is Ni no Kuni

Why don't YOU go get fixed?

Nothing because it doesn't need fixing.

You can't fix shit. Shit is shit.

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>>179626718

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More like this.

We go back in time so all the RPG tropes we now find cliche and boring are ACTUALLY original.

fuck you ni no kuni

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>>179627001
>I don't like it so it must be bad

WRPGs need fixing more than JRPGs

>just got the first orb in FF

I've got a long way to go in this series don't i?

>>179625738 (OP)
Your don't because there is no need.

It's a niche genre for sure, and I'm sure the JRPG fans enjoy it the way it is right now.

If you mean in terms of having a wider, more mainstream appeal, I don't really have any answers.

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I hate these threads

it may be petty but the presumptious nature of 'how do we fix X' is making me cringe

most of the people on /v/ have no idea what makes a game objectively good or bad
most of the people on /v/ have no idea what exactly the heart of a given franchise or genre is
most of the people on /v/ have no idea how to design or improve any video game

>>179627503
Cry more faggot

>>179627503
Whatever nerd

>>179626895
Ni No Kuni is a mediocre RPG that doubles as a good, long Ghibli movie.

I think the root of the problem lies in overused tropes, more than anything else.

>>179627375
That reminded me more of Refia from ff3

>>179625738 (OP)
Every game has to take place in Balamb Garden

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Its a lot more complicated then you think. You have to unfuck Japan as a whole.

Basically the whole demographic has shifted to "young adults" aka NEET that want cute girls doing cute things.

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FFVIII-2

>>179625738 (OP)
>How do we fix the JRPG genre?
>OP asks while posting a pic from one of the games that killed the JRPG genre

>>179627850
There is exactly one major series pandering to them

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skippable battle animations

>>179627503
>people make threads asking "how do we fix x"
>people in these threads are completely incapable of doing anything TO fix x if it is broken short of bitching about it being broken

These threads are pointless

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Localize SC.

The one thing I really miss from JRPGs is the world backstory and/or lore. JRPGs tend to be more character focused unlike WRPGs which tend to focus more on the setting first.

I want JRPGs to have that comfy, homey kind of feeling again. All of them nowadays push the SLEEK TECHNOLOGY SO SEXY PRODUCTION VALUE UGUU shit too far. I feel like I'm on a theme park ride rather than in a world I can spend time in and explore.

Running around in Balamb Garden talking to people > Any JRPG experience from the last 10 years

Localize Final Fantasy Type-0

>>179627865
>-2
No, a sequel for a Final Fantasy game is like a Disney sequel.

>>179627503
these threads are just to buttfrustrate nerds like you

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>>179628089
>Running around in Balamb Garden talking to people > Any JRPG experience from the last 10 years

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>>179627908

Do go on, i'm curious

Spoony broke this game down too much for me to ever take it seriously

Make them actually RPG's

>>179627984
I wouldn't mind that if it at least resulted in a reasonable discussion about the supposed flaws of the subject and ways to fix it

but it's completely baseless babble most of the time

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>implying the jrpg genre sucks
It's fine and healthy. Stop playing AAA trash, and start looking in the right places, you tasteless faggots. I bet you still play Final Fantasy too.

Kill everyone responsible for character/armor/weapons design in JRPGs.

>>179628089

That's some serious nostalgia goggles going on there

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>>179627969
>Lost Odyssey

I just can't be bothered finishing that game.
Combat is soooooooooooo fucking slow.

>>179625738 (OP)
Limit it to 16-bit graphics

>>179627984
Do you realize that you're bitching pointlessly in a thread about bitching pointlessly?

IMO, a JRPG is about as fucked as WRPG.

Take that as you will.

>>179625738 (OP)
Is that Halo Reach?

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>>179625738 (OP)
>How do you fix threads

Ionno, OP? How do we fix you? Die in a fire already.

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>>179628089
>complaining about SLEEK TECHNOLOGY SO SEXY PRODUCTION VALUE UGUU shit
>while praising FFVIII, which was entirely about SLEEK TECHNOLOGY SO SEXY PRODUCTION VALUE UGUU shit

make more games like Xenoblade and The Last Story

going back to the old ways, like ni no kuni
>dat world map

>>179628239
FFVIII popularized the angsty, leather wearing, teenage JRPG protagonist stereotype, and completely fucking ruined the entire FF franchise.

>>179627646
>Ni No Kuni is a mediocre RPG that doubles as a good, long Ghibli movie.

Thank you. In fact, let's go ahead and redefine "mediocre" to mean tired and cliche. Because that's what most every JRPG is nowadays. They simply copy/paste their predecessors instead of actually introducing new elements like CT did with its over-world real-time battles and multiple endings.

People who complain about JRPGs think that Final Fantasy is the only JRPG. All of these games I'm listing came out relatively recently or are coming out soon.

>Eternal Sonata
>Fire Emblem: Awakening (Do JSRPG count?)
>Final Fantasy XV (I have low expectations for this one)
>Final Fantasy versus XIII (Almost definitely will be shown at TGS)
>Lost Odyssey
>Ni No Kuni
>Nier
>Resonance of Fate
>Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor
>Shin Megami Tensei IV
>Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 4
>Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 5 (Probably on PS3, will be getting this in at most three years)
>Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey
>The Last Remnant
>The Last Story
>The World Ends With You
>Valkyria Chronicles
>Xenoblade Chronicles
>Xenosaurus (aka, "X")

I don't know too much about the Tales games, but a lot have come out this gen iirc

>>179628646
Actually CT's battle system wasn't even remotely new. the only thing new was the seamless transitions and combo attacks.

Multiple endings wasn't new either.

JRPGs are doing alright as far as I'm concerned. It's WRPGs that are in trouble, though that may be fixed by the upcoming wave of P&P-inspired games.

>>179627591
>>179627629
samefagging

>>179628475
You're so mean.

Can you into JRPGs if you play on PC, excluding PSX/PS2 emulation?

Or do I need to buy a PS3 + 3DS?

>>179628674
>>179628219

I'm confused

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>>179627479
Anybody got any more Rydia cosplay?

>>179628674
The post implies that he disagrees with that.

Learn to reading comprehension please

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>>179627148

>I like eating shit and you don't so it must be good.

test

>>179628880
Yea, well, I'm going to FUCK YOUR FACE.

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>>179628670
I hate how every JRPG is about 12 year old girls in miniskirts. It's all just fanservice now. They've become a joke.

Since everyone else in the thread, OP included is busy being a faggot, I'll post the honest answer.

Return the heart to the games. Purchase games with lower production values, such as Nier, so that smaller studios who actually give a shit about the world and characters can keep doing their jobs. Stop thinking that the RPGs from the 90s, which were fantastic, were good GAMES. They were just reusing the same Dragon Quest formula which is now 25 years too old to be exciting anymore. It was the charm of the story that drove you to keep playing.

Seriously.

>>179628646
I feel like JRPGs are about as creatively bankrupt as WRPGs.

Actually, I think they are better off now. WRPG seems to have waned along with the downfall of Bioware.

>>179625738 (OP)
Offer a more varied cast, not necessarily in one game but different games with different characters, not just some middle, high schoolers saving the world, that just doesn't fly with many people. Wildly different art styles, not just generic anime and moe, no more random battles ever! Take advantage of current technology to make the world feel vast and more alive.
>>179626718
>>179626934
>>179627381

Talk about denial, Jrpgs are nowhere near as popular as they used to be and if things don't change they will keep shrinking.

We could try outsourcing the jrpgs to western devs?

>>179628840
The Ys series, Xanadu Next. Trails in the Sky might becoming soon.

Cladun X2 and Half-Minute Hero are also on PC, as well as The Last Remnant, and some eroge like Kamidori, Rance, Monster Girl Quest, etc.

>>179628958

>what I don't like is shit

As far as the majority of jrpgs go they don't need to be fixed.

Final Fantasy does need a fix though and that's with it stopping trying to make these new useless combat systems that are total fucking ass. Stay turn base or go real-time tired of seeing all their characters share literally almost 80%+ of their animations.

Then there's niche jrpgs that want to make this complex combat sytem that ends up being total fucking garbage, like that or manga carta. Played that shit on the PS2 and I hated that circle bullshit always being on the middle of the screen. FUCK YOU.

Anything else i would've said wouldn't be "fixing" but more of "expanding" so that's all I have.

Stop having the protagonists be a sword wielding teenager from a quiet village that gets thrown into turmoil so he gathers a merry band of misfits (one of which will die and/or betray you) to stop the evil empire and save the world.

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>JRPG
>genre

>>179625738 (OP)
Stop the moe shit.

>>179629058

Nobody cares about popularity. Popularity doesn't make games good.

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>>179628958
But I never even implied that, retard.

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>>179629087

>I

>tfw valkyria 3 isn't coming
>tfw the translation project hasn't updated since january 3rd

>>179628334
good idea. that way they can't go 100% fucking retarded with costume design and other shitty aesthetic things

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>>179629191
No.

>>179628987
Pic not related I assume?

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>>179629058
>Popularity = Quality
There are plenty of great JRPGs that have come out recently. Most casuals and retards don't know about them though, because they only pay attention to games with massive advertising campaigns, and dismiss games based on art style.

>>179629191
this
the teenage shit has to go
Nomura pls go

>>179629157
I can't even remember the last RPG I played that had any of those things. This isn't the 90s anymore.

>>179629076
huehue

>>179629214

Then you acknowledge that JRPGs are shit. I'm glad that we've reached a consensus.

>>179629014

Issue is a lot of them won't get translated either way.

Also it seems like most developers just shrunk away the moment this gen started. For instance, Atlus, who churned SMT games on the PS2, only made apuzzle game and a
cash-grab fighting game on a non-portable console this gen. So many franchises just kind of stopped appearing on main consoles with this gen.

>>179629161
JRPG is a genre. Extra Credits told me so.

>>179629348
>bla bla bla I'm a hipster, I only play obscure games for obscure gamers such as myself

>>179629562
Then that extra credits person is wrong.

>>179625738 (OP)
>Thinks a genre will be resurrected when no one cares about it anymore

By killing Nomura and Toriyama or at least going back in time and making sure Nomura ever has a position in the company that isn't monster design.

>>179629619
Not him, but you sound like a retard. Have you played Pandora's Tower?

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>>179625738 (OP)
For some reason that picture remidned me of Digimon World 2
>Forced to fuse your digimons once they reach a certain level
>when you fuse them they go back to the previous evolution state
Hated that shit

>>179629542
Most non Final Fantasy jRPGs are made on tiny budgets, this gen is too expensive for most studios to churn out a shitty grindfest and expect a profit margin when it sells 200k

>>179627503

Turn based rpg makes a game objectively bad. I've played them a lot as a kid and as teenager, but turn based is just too simple.

Even back then what drove me was the feeling of leveling, getting stronger and getting acess to newer skills. But with the time, that itself isnt enough.

JRPGs should take the action route, as Tales series. Japs, instead of westerns, can into action, but they keep wasting their potential on fucking turn based.

inb4 that nostalgia fag that will defend this retarded style.

>>179629619
>I'm a casual, I only play games with multimillion dollar marketing budgets then complain about the lack of quality

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>>179628024
>>>/jrpgg/

>>179629619
>if it's popular it's gud

>>179629542
>So many franchises just kind of stopped appearing on main consoles with this gen.

Based "business" Microsoft happened.

it's a niche genre now. Let the weebs have their genre.

>>179629542

Because the development costs are insanely high and the return is low. The problem remained the same the last gen, it's just that dev costs were slightly lower.

PS3 is like the fucking modern day Sega Saturn in terms of development barriers. No one in Japan plays Xbox.

That's why like 90% of the RPGs that have come out in the last decade were on handhelds.

>using hipster as a insult
Grow up troll.

>>179629161
>>179629665
JRPG is a genre, deal with it.

>>179629749
>objectively bad

Stopped reading right there.

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>>179629483
Instead of denouncing JRPGs as shit, why don't you try coming up with some ideas to fix them?

That's what this thread is about, after all.

What is it about JRPG's that makes them so memorable?

I've only played a couple, like golden sun or kingdom hearts (Which isn't so much RPG but an action game), but they seem to have this.. dreamy quality to them.
Even shitty JRPGs that aren't that good gameplay wise (FF13) are really quite memorable for what they do, the delivery of the game.


No mater which one I play, I always end up wanting to live in the world I play in.

WRPGs dont even come close, but I have no idea what the actual quality IS

>>179629716

>pandora's tower
>good
>obscure

top rer

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>>179629805
Muv-Luv is the best RPG

Turn-based combat

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>>179629951
>a geographical location is a genre

>>179629749
>Turn based rpg makes a game objectively bad. I've played them a lot as a kid and as teenager, but turn based is just too simple.

You're a moron, that has nothing to do with complexity.

>>179629951

>JRPG is a genre, deal with it.

Define it

>>179629619
>obscure gamers

Made me laugh, for some reason.

>>179629991
>Even shitty JRPGs that aren't that good gameplay wise (FF13) are really quite memorable for what they do, the delivery of the game.
The only thing memorable about FFXIII was how bad it was. It was "memorable" in the way that Superman 64 or Big Rigs are memorable, not in the way jap games are "memorable"

>>179629749
>objectively
no it isn't
you can't just fucking say that whenever you want, you sack of shit. xcom is turnbased and it's hard as fuck.

>>179629991

FF13 is only memorable for how bad it is.

>>179629058
Level 5 rocks my world and Ni No Kuni is a great game.

The only reason some people dislike FF8 is because they're too stupid to understand the junctioning system.

Disliking some of the character design is not enough to claim that you dislike the ENTIRE GAME.

>>179629619
its not about playing the most obscure JRPG, its just that MAJOR sales aren't expected by localization companies. they'll keep doing what they do and the niche will keep purchasing them. JRPGs are actually doing pretty well now

>>179630082
>Define it

an RPG made by Japanese developers

>>179630082

I actually agree that JRPG isn't a genre. But the argument is pretty easily made and has been on /v/ a million times. So why don't we just avoid that conversation and stick to the intelligent convo?

>>179630030
that feel when banned from /vg/ so i have to come to this shithole

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I just finished FFV. I finished it on the PSX, left a bad taste. Replayed it now. It's not so bad at all actually. It's actually fun. I guess it's because I cheated when I played it on the PSX. And also the random battles, holy shit, the fast forward button on emulators is a oasis in a desert.

>>179629081
so only shit jrpgs then? pc is never getting good jrpgs? why?

>>179628798
The amount of endings that CT had were unprecedented for a major RPG release. And not only the endings, but how they were tightly related to mutliple user choices that weren't necessarily made in the last 5 minutes of the game. It elevated the concept of multiple endings, rather than merely copy it by having 2-3 endings.

>>179630218

>an RPG made by Japanese developers

That's not a definition of a genre.

>>179630068
whether a movie is foreign is a part of its genre, faggot.
are you this dumb?

>>179630229
If you ignore the arguments presented to you, you concede to their truth.

>>179630206
>The only reason some people dislike FF8 is because they're too stupid to understand the junctioning system.
Do people actually believe this? The game was boring as fuck.

>>179630229
>But the argument is pretty easily made and has been on /v/ a million times.

Only because /v/ is full of morons.

>>179629991

JRPGs are character-driven, which means you remember the characters (and thus the story) more. WRPGs are setting or world driven, and the characters are mostly either self-inserts or smaller players in a larger theatre.

I mean, you can create a forum solely dedicated to talking about Cloud, but I doubt you can do the same with, say, the Nerevarine.

>>179629337
pic very related

persona is the definition of fan service.

By refusing to cater to people who don't like the JRPG genre.

>>179630402
You must be in the american genre.

>>179630393
i'm not defining the genre, i'm telling you what the word "JRPG" encompasses

>>179629747
>>179629887

I was afraid to admit that, but it seems like my assumptions were true. I really do think that the console technology is the biggest cause of a lot of issues we have with video games today. We can make things look prettier, but the cost to do so seems to have increased exponentially for everyone as well. The industry has become a high-risk high-reward gamble where few are willing to take risks and fewer are able to churn out games in general.

>>179630206
>Disliking some of the character design is not enough to claim that you dislike the ENTIRE GAME.
yeah it is.
it's why i hate doctor who, for example

>>179630568
>but I doubt you can do the same with, say, the Nerevarine.
You can with Vivec.

>>179630402
"Foreign" is not a genre.

>>179630461

First time on /v/? We typically call that autism around here. No, but seriously. You seem like a smart dude. Just don't bother with it. It's a waste of time. Contribute to the whole.

p-p-p-please...

>>179630218
extra credits said it was a bad naming convention.
What did they come up with... Narrative RPG? Yeah that makes sense, a narrative focused RPG.

VS "Western RPGS" which they described as "Expressive RPG". A roleplaying game that focuses on the Player's Choice and character expression, D&D like systems and such.

The fact that so many JRPG fans still name Final Fantasy 7 "the greatest or most significant or most influential" JRPG ever only tells you how far Final Fantasy games still are from becoming a serious series. RPG critics have long recognized that the greatest games of all times are Chrono Cross and the Dragon Quest series, who were not the most famous or best sellers of their times, let alone of all times. FF fans are still blinded by commercial success: FFVII sold more than anyone else (not true, by the way), therefore it must have been the greatest. DQ fans grew up playing a lot games of the past, especially RPGs, while FF fans are often totally ignorant of the RPGs of the past, and they barely know the best sellers. No wonder they will think that FFVII did anything worth of being saved.

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>>179630480
Not him, but I know some people who've said that was the case for them.

>>179630068
>>179630082
>implying people care about what fat nerds on /v/ think
Words are defined by the masses, and there is nothing you can do about it. If enough people think JRPG is a genre, then JRPG is a genre. That's how language functions, and there's nothing you can do about it, other than nitpick. Most gamers know of JRPG as a genre.

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>>179630304
Don't know that feel. I just don't like /vg/ because it's so sloooow.

The Archer discussion a couple nights ago was cool though.
>>179630373
>Ys
>TiTS
>Xanadu
>TLR
>Rance
>MGQ
>shit

If you want tripe like FF on PC I think you're out of luck, sorry.

>>179630568

>JRPGs are character-driven, which means you remember the characters (and thus the story) more. WRPGs are setting or world driven, and the characters are mostly either self-inserts or smaller players in a larger theatre.

90s called, they want their stereotypes back.

>>179630346
Personally I find FF1 to FF5 to be awful. FF2 was actually pretty interesting, but only for the mechanics, not the story (in fact it has probably the worst story). These FF are all generic fantasy with poor character development, setting, and villains. FF6 was FF1 in my book since it started or perfected a great number of tropes in the FF series, like anti-religious themes, a party which consists of a ragtag band of terrorists/rebels, and combining science fiction with fantasy.

>>179630496
Morons that don't understand that JRPG is a genre.

>>179630605

I asked you to define JRPG as a genre.

>>179630669
Extra Credits is total bullshit that you should ignore completely.

Console JRPGs are a joke this generation thanks to NIS flooding the market with Atelier/Neptunia garbage.

JRPGs are still alive and well on handhelds, especially the DS, PSP, and 3DS. Just accept that.

>>179630568
yeah... that's wrong

>>179625738 (OP)
Less moeshit, more pre-rendered backgrounds (baten kaitos did that well for exemple), better writers cause this is a real issue for both characters and scenario as a whole.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/114322-Square-Enix-Wants-a-New-Final-Fantasy-Every-Year
Square enix is cancer

>>179630598
>go to netflix
>look at genres
>foreign language
you've foud the foreign genre.
jrpgs have a different storytelling and gameplay style than western rpgs. that is a pretty major change worthy of a genre.

>>179630346
>PSX
Ew. Call it PS1, or PSone. PSX leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

>>179630570

Definitely fan service heavy. But, I appreciate it for not being a compete "Japanese idea of what medieval times was like with magic, female healers in hoods" ripoff.

Let's just be real here. A lot of the major complaint is that there isn't anything new in JRPGs. But there hasn't been anything new in human storytelling for thousands of years. Slight variations like Persona are actually refreshing. Even if the fanbase makes me want to kill myself.

>>179630380
Actually, what ending you get was literally decided in the last 5 minutes of the game. It was based entirely on when you beat Lavos. There were some minor changes to each ending you could get by doing certain sidequests, that was it.

Everything but the Reunion and true ending were basically joke endings.

There were games that did actual multiple endings based on your choices better and earlier than CT.

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>>179630669
>What did they come up with... Narrative RPG? Yeah that makes sense, a narrative focused RPG.
>
>VS "Western RPGS" which they described as "Expressive RPG". A roleplaying game that focuses on the Player's Choice and character expression, D&D like systems and such.

>extra credits

>>179630681
There is probably a deeper layer of people who would claim that Falcom is the greatest pillar of JRPG and everyone else if just to ignorant of their existence to understand that.

>>179629348
>>179629192
How would a shrinking genre benefit the quality? It's just going to lead to developers targeting the most die hard fans even more so, having it become like anime, where the figurine, pillow buying consumer is the key demographic and in my opinion leading to a lower quality product. But you guys probably like anime today and think it's better than it's ever been.

>tfw the thread should have ended here >>179627503

>>179630618

This is actually the reason why Square Enix claims to have dropped the 'world map' from recent rpgs it makes. Because, plain and simple, they have no idea how to do it with the graphical technology we have now. It makes sense. In order to create a "world map" when characters are to scale, you would be looking at a LOT of empty space.

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>>179630920
>Square enix is cancer
This. What the fuck happened? Square was great, Enix was great, but as soon as the joined forces they turned to shit.

>>179630725

Most "gamers" also don't know what the fuck they're talking about.

>Stop trying to over simplify things
>Concentrate on mobile platforms where development costs are less, and turn based systems that allow for divided attention are more beneficial
>Retire Final Fantasy for a decade
>Skies of Arcadia 2 and Valkyria Chronicles 4 for 3DS

>>179630725
Except everyone knows JRPG is not a genre. Everyone has the mental capacity to understand the meaning of the word Japanese. That's why it isn't used practically anywhere in genre labels. Only people who don't know are just a few idiots on /v/.

>>179630843
you don't have to define a word to know what it means jackass, quit nitpicking

>>179630681
How the hell was FF7 not an incredibly significant entry in the genre?

I honestly think jrpgs are a fundamentally flawed genre. A lot of them were really good, but they all have the problem of combat feeling very trivial. Random battles ruin flow, and I think most people play them for the story. What really galls me is modern rpgs using a random battle system. Even late into the snes era people realized that was a bad idea, there is NO fucking excuse for it now. It was a memory limitation in the nes days, in 2013 you should be able to draw enemies on screen for you to avoid. I guess personally I'd like to either see a much more tactical approach to combat in rpgs (like fire emblem) or a much more dexterity based one (like mario rpgs). More than anything else, I want actual role playing in these so called "role playing" games. The jobs system in early ff games was great, no idea why they abandoned it.

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>>179630393

Don't listen to that dumbfuck

RPGs are RPGs yet the term jrpg and wrpg had to happen.

JRPGs is mainly to define the rpg genre when the rpg genre became so story focus that the story progression is linear. Though other just use jrpg cause of all the anime ties like color and animation. Which is stupid.

WRPGs on the other are more about freedom, customization, and exploration than they are about progressing in the story.

That's the reason those terms exist without them people make an RPG thread and talking about japanese or western developed rpgs and people would only bitch cause that's not what they want to discuss in said thread.

Yet I hope you weren't this fucking retarded to not know this or even come to this conclusion. Though I'll let it slide if you're under 10 years old.

>>179631052
Anime was always about merchandising.

Regardless that is still not indicative of quality.

>>179630931

>jrpgs have a different storytelling and gameplay style than western rpgs

Define the difference.

>>179631228
You're deluding yourself. Every gamer around you knows the games as being JRPG.

>>179631261
>>179631009
That's copypasta dumbfucks.

>>179631242
>you don't have to define a word to know what it means

...Am I reading this correctly?

>>179631306
jrgps aren't really role playing games, but I'm not sure what else to call them.

>>179631193
Yeah, well, that's how your language formed, so there.

>>179630681

Final Fantasy VII sold as much as it did because of the graphics. I know. I was there. The moment MTV ran a fucking ad about a Final Fantasy game, it blew my mind. There were Final Fantasy branded soda cans. It was the first RPG that got that level of marketing.

"Sales" weren't what drew people to FFVII.
The marketing did. If Chrono had the same sales, it would have been in the same place.

it was a different time, man.

>>179630681
i kind of agree. i mean, people will probably think I'm trolling when I say this, but whats so great about the Final Fantasy series? they're some of the most boring, repetitive, uncreative JRPGs out there, and aside from setting the bar for other developers to improve upon, they've done nearly nothing for the genre. all the games were great for their time, but that's it. they've aged terribly, had some *decent* remakes (and that's being generous), and have some terrible casts that are only memorable because they wear outrageous outfits and bitch about their insecurities for half the game, yet its somehow considered 'character development' when they realize just how fucking pathetic and annoying they've been for the 70 hours you've had to sink into them. i really don't understand

>>179630931
>netflix is the authority on genres

Genre is based some common theme. Being made somewhere is not one. And since every game has a different story, your second point is full retard too.

Fire Nomura, force SE to make actual JRPGs, shut down Gust, NIS, Compile Heart and Idea Factory.

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>>179631242

>you don't have to define a word to know what it means

>>179631383
I've been had. Fuck I can't even tell anymore.

>>179631052
>It's just going to lead to developers targeting the most die hard fans even more so
I don't see the problem.

>>179631306
>JRPGs is mainly to define the rpg genre when the rpg genre became so story focus that the story progression is linear. Though other just use jrpg cause of all the anime ties like color and animation. Which is stupid.
>
>WRPGs on the other are more about freedom, customization, and exploration than they are about progressing in the story.

see

>>179630756

>>179625738 (OP)
by fixing their fanbases. Can't help weaboos and lolis.

>>179630346
I played through the SNES version recently.

Loved the music

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>>179631306
>calling other people dumbfucks

>making swooping categorizations that don't even hold true to most RPGs labeled as WRPGs and JRPGs

>>179631376
Yes, they know it means they're RPGs from Japan. Only exceptions are a handful of mongoloids.

>>179630856
What exactly is wrong with EC? They raise numerous thought provoking points, and often teach people who want to make games.

>>179631351
define "define"
you can't just fucking do that to everything someone says.
>>179630082
as someone else said, words are defined by the masses. and you are a jackass.

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It's easy to say that FFX ruined everything by getting rid of an interactive over-world map.

But lots of great games were borne from the idea - namely KOTOR.

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>>179630568
>JRPGs are character-driven

God damn shit you're retarded.

>>179629985
but he already stated his opinion on the matter. It can't be done.

>>179631672
>science is religious

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>Not playing SMT: Strange Journey, Xenoblade, Radiant Historia etc.

>>179630867
The handhelds are the only consoles worth shit these days.

>>179631675

You are an anti-intellectual pleb, I will waste no more time with you.

>>179631532
>>179631412
you know what the word "JRPG" encompasses, do you not? you don't need a written definition to know what makes a JRPG what it is unless you're daft as fuck

oh wait

>>179631508
>being made in a common place isn't something two pieces can have in common

>>179631183
>Square was great
They made FFX. Square was shit.

>>179630681
Dragon Quest games are boring, requiring way too much grinding to progress a little in the story. I love Dragon Quest VIII though, but the story sucked. Totally uninteresting and a boring cast of characters. Also, its generic fantasy, which I can't stand. I don't mind grinding too much, but only if I feel like I'm trying to do a little extra or get something out of it, not just to progress through the story. In Persona 4, I got to level 80 in heaven, which is like 20 levels ahead of where you are suppose to be, but because I feel like the personas are a great reward for putting in extra time. I wanted to see what a new power for a certain Persona would be like or a Persona itself.

Speaking of Persona, SMT is way better than DQ. Play Nocturne, Strange Journey, and even the first game, which is really interesting.

Chrono Trigger > Chrono Cross, come on now.

FF7 is a great game and of course its one of the most influential. Look at all the comically large swords, crazy hairdos, and angst in JRPGs. I think FFX is the best FF, but I can see why FF6 was so important for its time.

>>179630867
Atelier is GUST, not NIS.

And it's actually better than most console RPGs this gen, unless you don't like good gameplay.

>>179631457

You're not getting the point. The masses often misuse terms from science, philosophy, medicine etc. That doesn't mean they get to define them.

>>179631672
they raise though provoking points if you're a mouthbreathing retard not realizing the most obvious things about your hobby and too thick to get annoyed by their condescending and preaching attitude

wait this sounds dangerously like neo /v/

>>179631901
>what is a theme

>>179631865
>you know what the word "JRPG" encompasses

Yes, a RPG made in Japan.

>>179631953
We're not including Rorona in there? I'd give that a 7/10 max.

>>179625738 (OP)
By occasionally coming up with a new idea for the story.

>>179631935
Dragon Quests are setup so you can beat them with zero grinding. Grinding is just an option available if you need to become stronger to progress

>>179632095
JRPG is a RPG made by ching-chongs, not necessarily in Japan. The ching-chongs can be Japan however.

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I havent played final fantasy since Final Fantasy 12.. because they changed the fucking battle system that I used to love in FF7 to FF10....dont know if the new games after 12 are still using that crappy battle system fuck that.. I switched to playing Persona 3-4

>>179632095
so that's the fucking definition, fucknuts

>>179631672

Enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6XnL6bKqT0

>>179632025
>That doesn't mean they get to define them
Actually it does. When you're dead and buried, your cute little terms that might make more logical sense, will be replaced and forgotten by theirs.

>>179632095
and thats my point, why feel the need to define it further besides just categorizing it as strategy, sandbox, turn-based, action, etc. if you combine "JRPG" with any other genre, you'll have a perfect fucking idea of what the game is like

its not that hard to get

>>179632120
No, Rorona was basically GUST testing the waters with the PS3. It was a beta of sorts and it's very unpolished. Totori and Meruru are great though, unless you're so shallow that you can't get past the style.

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>>179631656
>making swooping categorizations that don't even hold true to most RPGs labeled as WRPGs and JRPGs

Fucking imbecile. I never said the rpg genre can be categorized by those 2.

You can't generalize the rpg genre to just the rpg cause it's the only genre that's so god damn diverse that you have all kinds of shit mixed with it.

Then again me expecting you to use that so called brain of yours is like asking a special olympics champion to give me directions to the nearest restroom.

>>179632251

But not the definition of a genre.

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>>179630771
That too was my first opinion of FFV, but I disagree now. I could probably write a long fanon about FFV to expand more about the characters and story, heck I think one could write an adventure novel about it if one had the time. I did some opening paragraphs on Chrono Trigger when I was young. Got lazy LOL. Note that what I meant as fanon is something that elaborates the game in text/book form based on what was already made by the original creators, not raping it with homosex fantasies. That's bad fanon.

>>179630867
Mentioning Atelier and neptunia in a single breath pretty much show how ignorants you are when it comes to this matter.
Just because there's 2 good jrpg coming out for 3DS recently doesn't mean that the whole genre is dead on the home console.

>>179632190
Was that a joke post? DQ basically made grinding popular. Thats why so many JRPGs have them. For some reason, Japanese love to grind.

>>179631835
The 3DS especially is a great system for JRPGs, it was basically engineered to be a perfect platform for DC/PS2/GC style games. Hopefully we see it get a lot of attention.

>>179632269
>Actually it does.

No, it does not. The elites define terms, masses follow.

>>179632349
Any fanon is bad fanon, anon. Write something original.

I wish they'd stop pushing GRAFIX so much. I want a world map back.

[Also, static cameras. It's more artistic when you're forced to look at what the art director (or whoever) wants you to look at. Being able to move the camera around wherever kills the immersion because areas have to be watered down to accommodate for the 3D camera.

You know it's true.

>>179632327
>its not that hard to get

Follow the conversation moron, I'm not the one calling it a genre.

The problem with Japan is that they've become a caricature of themselves with their tentacle porn and little girls in skirts. No one takes them seriously anymore, and that includes their RPGs.

>>179630867
why do people keep clumping Atelier and Neptunia, and especially NIS and Atelier? it truly hurts

>>179631760
It's not religious, but it does rely on faith.
>>179632038
Fuck off.
>>179632252
I don't care about your shitty commentary.

>>179632353
Uh, no. Name me one instance in Dragon Quest where you need to grind. The Dhoulmagus fight is the only one I can think of

Balamb Garden would have been better if they gave the player more way to interact with the campus.

>>179632567

>I don't care about your shitty commentary.

It's not mine.

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>How do we fix the JRPG genre?

Bring back GameArts

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>>179632567
7/10, great caricature of the average EC fan

>>179632536
>follow the conversation

that's kinda hard considering at one point, I replied to two anons that may or may have not been who I was replying to in the first place. no use calling me a moron

>>179632327
because an civ 4 and eu3 have similar basic properties that, according to you, could and should be defined through something like turn based strategy, and yet they are completely different games. Your simplistic definitions only work if you're looking at games with no understanding the medium.

>>179632567
>It's not religious, but it does rely on faith.

No, it relies on evidence and accepting reasonable conclusions based on the evidence.

I don't have faith that evolution is true, I accept that evolution is true because there's a mountain of evidence.

>>179632546
Because they both have NISA's label on the western box and female protagonists. The vast majority of people who bitch about them don't bother to look much further than that.

Are there any JRPGs on their way to Steam soon?

>>179632586
From the very start, you can't expect to fight the merman in the waterfall cave right away. You need to grind till like level 10. Then, after the squid attack in the new continent, each battle will knock you down to really low HP due to multiplying enemies, so you have to keep returning to the inn to rest up.

>>179627503
>objectively
Go home

>>179632787
>I don't have faith that evolution is true, I accept that evolution is true because there's a mountain of evidence.
>science vs religion debate

well, it was nice while it lasted

c'ya guys.

>>179632482
This.
I wouldn't mind a return to prerendered backgrounds either.

Remember when PS1 JRPG devs could shit out an amazing game in 2 years or less? Moving back to sprites, or static cameras with 3D Models on prerendered backgrounds could facilitate a return to form, of sorts.
We could have a second JRPG golden age if they'd get it out their heads that EVERYTHING must be in 3D.

>>179632349
When I first got up to the Neo-Exdeath fight the strongest member of my team only had 1900 HP.

Shit was intense

>>179632818
Japs hate PCs, yo. Get a PS2 emulator if the only thing you have is a PC. Play Dark Cloud 2.

>>179632545
The true problem lies on the people like you and op who is keen on criticizing something you don't fucking know or love.
Its just wasn't meant for you and stop ranting like they should.

>>179632818
There's still the rumors that we'll see Sega bring some of their games to Steam in time for the GabeCube. But they might be exclusive to the GabeCube and Steam for Linux.

>>179632818
The Ark of Napishtim, Trails in the Sky

JRPGs are good when they have amazing exploration. These are the ones that end up being universally liked (Xenoblade, Skies of Arcadia, FFVI, DQVIII, etc.).
A JRPG can also be liked if they have unconventional characters, but they'll be more niche (Radiant Historia, FFT, non-FF PS1 Square RPGs, etc.).

In other words, the key to make a good JRPG is to focus on making fun exploration and reasonable characters.

>>179632925
Are you implying there are no objective benchmarks video game design can be held to?

>>179632771
But eu3 isn't turn based at all. It's more like isometric real time rpgs with spammable pause if there has to be a comparison

>>179632787
Yes, but you have faith in your evidence, even though it might one day be proven false.

>>179632482
>>179632965
you guys should look into more handheld JRPGs, there's been a lot of great recent games on both handhelds that know that graphics don't make a good game

Get the Japanese male to stop being a faggot afraid of difficulty and games without horny underage girls.

>>179632436
>The elites define terms, masses follow.
No. Also, even the elite have decided for RPG to be a genre term.

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>>179631675
>define "define"
>you can't just fucking do that to everything someone says.
Are you some kind of idiot?

>>179632436
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JRPG

>>179632567
>science relies on faith
what the fuck are you going on about. The entire basis of science is that nature works predictably and every theory still has the potential to be wrong. The only theories that are assumed to be true are those that have repeatedly shown to be correct in numerous instanced and fit with prior assumed truths. Science works on the best-fitting theories available, but it never actually claims anything to be truth. Faith is the idea that "I hope it is true" while science uses the idea that "I'll just have to assume it is true"

>>179633328
Define "idiot".

>>179633384
inb4 >wikipedia

we all know its coming

>>179633153
Alright fine, lets compare fire emblem and civilization. Turn based strategies.

>>179625738 (OP)

Get rid of turn based combat entirely

TBS is fine though

>>179632687
/thread

>>179633384
>wikipedia
lel