>There is usually a very light amount of planning for the next three expansions. This is limited to what they would be about, the theme, and some of the major features. Plans usually end up changing, so not a lot of time is spent on it.

Sounds like they have plans to still support the game as a subscription based MMO for a while

Aren't they working on another MMO?

You don't think this is a coincidence, right?

The new MMO will be revealed with tales of how it brings back old WoW, with nitty gritty challenge, and exploration.

And people will flock to it. It's a good cashin. Their reputation has been shit on with lying about SCII's expansions, and D3 being... well, just bad.

>>180295449
>lieing about SCII's expansions

Please explain.

Stat crunching will happen sooner rather than later, for the other stuff I don't really know and I don't care, I mostly like the game as it is

I've never played WoW but I've played LOTRO for 5 years, never go F2P all our "new" content is just the same as wow dumbed the fuck down

Won't go F2P until they go under a couple million subs

>>180296027
they probably already have but just lie about it

>>180296090
that's not how public stock companies work, bro

WoW is better now than it ever was

I want nostalgia fags to leave

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>playing MMO's
>ever
Hah, get out of you mom's basement nerd

>>180296256
Bobby Kotick pls go

>>180296226
hahahahaha, you really think it isn't?

>>180296256
>inb4 you get called a troll

feature and content- wise, sure. But many people will never be 14 again and entering SW/OG for the first time so feel-wise they're right

They've already made more money off it than most kikes are capable of imagining. They'll keep milking as a p2p for as long as possible and then make it tor-tier f2p with restrictions up the ass and expensive cash shop

>>180296420
yes, I really think that. The amount of legal ramifications for forging numbers isn't worth it by a long shot

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>tfw I don't give a shit cause the greatest mmo ever is in the process of being resurrected and disney doesn't give a fuck

>>180296603
this is assuming corporations aren't guilty of lying to stock holders all the fucking time

>>180296256
The only thing WoW has going for it as of this moment, is having an abundance of content. There's no longer a challenge in questing, dungeons/raids, no more exploration or sense of wonder, and most of all and most importantly, no community.

WoW stopped growing a long time ago and has been stagnant. It wont take much of a push for subs to start really shrinking now. With new tech on its way the writing is on the wall for 3rd person, dumbed down, low poly garbage.

How to fix WoW

1. Remove flying mounts
2. Disable datamining somehow
3. Remove LFR
4. Dungeon Finder only works for finding people on the same server and no longer instantly teleports to the dungeon
5. Arenas no longer give conquest points, they are played just for rating. Random Battlegrounds give double their previous honor and conquest points.
6. Lots and lots of class balance changes with a focus on battlegrounds instead of arenas.

>>180296719
Ok, I have to chip in now, but holy fuck this kid is dellusional. The US government loves fining corporations when they can. WoW is such a big game that they will check to make sure their books are on the up and up, otherwise they would make it public and sue them for millions under the SEC umbrella. Do you even know what the SEC is?

I played WoW during cata when they let me re activate my account for a week.

It was pretty ridiculous how the lower lvl dungeons have changed. You just constantly pull everything and AOE it all to death. You never die, never stop, or anything, and all the quest givers are right there at the entrance. So you just do each dungeon once and you will be ready to head to outlands in a day. Wtf happened?

I had a blast in EQ just hanging out with bros and farming exp day in and day out. Dungeons actually meant something. Items actually ment something. Maybe one day you'd be lucky to get in a group in the mushroom king's room in sebilis and get a chance to get a cobalt bracer which is actually fucking useful for the entire lifetime of the game. Maybe another day you'll go with your low lvl guild and raid a fire dragon which actually drops valuable loot which will last you more than 2 more levels. It actrually felt like a fantasy land instead of just a whatever the fuck wow is.

>>180296778
go ahead and beat top-tier heroic raids, friend. That shit is hard/

exploration - no flying until 90 is the only thing they could have done and Pandaria is pretty great

other stuff, you're mostly right

>>180297147
Do you know how many people would be piss with these changes?

The WoW you want is dead. Games aren't hardcore as they used to be. They are design to be entertainment medians in which you can jump in and out at any given time to satisfy your entertainment needs. Get a grip.

1. Star Wars Galaxies
2. UO
3. Vanilla WoW

>>180297179
b-b-bbut the government and corporations are all evil and don't have to follow rules ever I may be 14 years old but i'm not retarded. Anarchy makes sense.

>>180297147
so you want the game to be more annoying, not more challenging. You're only listing quality of life changes that can be avoided if need be

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>>180296778
>questing and dungeons
>ever challenging
get out you shitter

>>180297196
Oh not to mention, Lady Vash and Lord Nagafen are vanilla EQ raids, and they still had extremely useful drops even after the next 2 expansions came out. Somehow EQ expansions managed to not completely obliterate all the content from previous expansions.

>>180297741
Here's the fun part: WoW was never hard, just tedious. Even Naxx40.

>>180297741
>implying flying mounts dont ruin the game

>>180297965
Vanilla was tedious. Difficulty ramped up after that at the cost of tediousness.

WoW will continue declining, but it's natural, seeing as the game is nearing its 9th birthday..

Titan will probably take over, provided Blizzard doesn't fuck up.

>>180295603
Yes, explain. I actually have not heard about this, and want to know before i buy HotS.

>>180298109
It's hilarious how easy Naxx is when you no longer need 8 warrior tanks in a world without cross realm raids and server transfers.

>>180294575 (OP)

Fuck that picture makes me sad.

I miss my guild, I miss my bros.

I miss my time on Vanilla/BC, the most fun I've had online in my life.

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the savior is coming

>>180298001
there's no one stopping you from riding a ground mount for 20 mins to get to your quest hub. If you want immersion, I'd suggest that. Hell' I sometimes ride a long time just to see the world. I sometimes press / and walk slowly through the cities for the fuck of it

It's Blizzard. If WoW got rebooted it would be just be just as bad/good as everything else Blizzard makes. There will never be an MMO that achieved the same things that WoW achieved, and WoW will never be at that point again.

>>180298128
>Titan will probably take over, provided Blizzard doesn't fuck up.

Blizzard will never have another WoW. Deep down I think they know this.

>>180298427

why are you hyping generic mmos?

>>180298427
Looks like WoW with a bigger animation budget.
What makes it different/better?

>>180298508
It's an MMO, you can't just set rules for yourself in a multiplayer game like that.

>>180298427
>dreamworks MMO
>anything but a sinking ship

>tfw doing karazhan for the first time

>>180298508
Exactly. Nothing is stopping you. Nothing is stopping you from skipping over everything either. What real nerds want from an MMO is an immersive world that makes you actually feel like you're in a fantasy world. It should be dangerous and take a long time to get from place to place. It should rely on player interaction to make the world less dangerous and faster to travel through. WoW is ok for casuals but terrible for hardcore nerds. And it sucks because WOW set the precedent for MMOs so we haven't had a real engaging one in a while.

Im a veteral player (vanilla) and at first I was against panda land, seemed retarded and I thought they were running out of ideas.
Im enjoying it more than LK and Cata, its well done.

I dont agree with some decisions bliz made like cross realms. I liked the population of my server. It was quiet but not too quiet. Now there are asshats from other realms spamming general.
Id be happy if you could turn it off but whatever.

I unsubscribed in LK and Cata a bunch because there was nothing to do. Id log in, sit in stormwind for a good hour or two and log off, seemed stupid.
Ive been enjoying MoP, the setting, the music (dat inn music) , the quests, everything fits.

>>180299385
If they want dangerous, try Wizardry. Perma death is a thing.

>>180299669
You don't like the Wizardry series I take it?

>>180298381
I miss the sense of server community. You actually met people doing PuGs for dungeons. I met a bro doing uldaman pugs once in mid-BC and we stuck together all the way to wrath. But i guess he quit because he just up and vanished eventually. I quit during the lead up to cata because there was nothing i was looking forward to in that expansion. They killed server community with dungeon finder, and they were killing the old world i still enjoyed exploring. I heard MoP is good, and it may be, but i know that it's never going back to the WoW i enjoyed.

People think BC was the best expansion ever. But that's wrong seeing how it introduced all the worst elements. Flying mounts, arenas, PvP resilience, 25 mans, and etc. I want nostalgia fags to leave.

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>but muh communiteh

>>180300035

But 25-mans and flying mounts are good faggot. Speaking of nostalgiafags...

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>>180299538
Never heard of wizardry so I'm looking up stuff.

I found characters that look an awful lot like FFXIV, a YOU DIED screen ripped from demon's souls, and miss missile tits shown here. wtf is this

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>>180300393
>flying mounts are good

WoW was always terrible.

>All these baby-shits thinking WoW was anything but crap

Even Everquest was less fucking casual, talk about a good MMO like UO.

>>180300665
For men its fairly realistic armor, sadly. They did that in FFXI and then went WTF with the women wearing whore armor.

Not shown in that picture is gnomes, aka sheep people.

>>180300946
lel

>>180298230
Not that guy, but I'm guessing he's referring to when they announced HotS and said 'IT WILL CHANGE THE GAME ENTIRELY!'

Of course everyone including the gooks were happy because sc2 was basically 2-3 build orders based on what you were playing against and it was never really 'balanced'.

When they announced hots the main point was that every race was getting new units which would alter the gameplay entirely hence new strategies would be made, new ways to counter and play the game.

This excited a lot of people because SC2 as it was was stale already.

Throughout the beta of HotS they removed about 90% of the terran 'new' units and nerfed the ones that they didn't remove to the point where they're not even used. Making terran again the same thing as WoL for the next 2-3 years.

As far as protoss/zerg, they buffed their units and zerg is literally babby mode even more now than it was in WoL.

Either way, HotS will bomb for sure, because the devs are idiots and just fuck around when it comes to balance. You can tell they have no idea what they're doing. If you don't believe me simply read the patch notes for about 4-5 of the most recent HotS patches and you'll see how the majority of 'buffs/nerfs' aren't even tested, they just throw numbers and watch how people play, then revert it or leave it in until people complain again.

>>180300946
Because we all know that the least casual game is the best, right anon?

In fact, the best game ever is the game I made on my own. It's so hardcore that you need to be into programming to make it run to begin with, and even then, you will never meet the winning conditions.

>>180301061
I lost interest in SC2 when I realized that every patch just made 1 strategy the ultimate winner everywhere. I stopped paying attention around the time when the blue flame hellion rush was used 90% of the time and won 99% of the time it was used. It was also around the time that they held the Blizzard worldwide invitational and in the grand finale the match was so ridiculously obviously staged it was painful to watch.

I mean I watch these players play in tournaments and on streams every single day for a year and then they get to the grand finale and 5 of the games last 10-15 minutes, with the final game lasting about an hour because they pull all their punches and do completely uncharacteristic shit just so Blizzard could have a retarded faux "epic battle" with 200/200 units at the end.

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>>180301213
>Because we all know that the least casual game is the best, right anon?
>Neo-/v/

>>180300393
>flying mounts are good

I loved exploring on foot, made the mmo massive.
>tfw still refuse to buy cold weather flying after 5 years

>>180301780
I bought SC2 for 5€ to play Starjeweled.
I was so good at this.

>>180301938
>tfw still refuse to buy cold weather flying after 5 years

How do you do anything in the Stormpeaks or Icecrown?
Thats just silly.

>>180301780
>I stopped paying attention around the time when the blue flame hellion rush was used 90% of the time and won 99% of the time it was used.


Yeah that got nerfed too, that's just what happens. Players find a good strategy (usually terrans) then it works for about a month. Then it gets nerfed to the ground.

>

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They just need to bring progression back into the next content. Don't ask me how or what they're supposed to do. But thats it.

No really they just put a patch out and next patch almost completely nullifies the last one. When you hit 90 now you immediately start in the latest raid just like it was in cata and most of wrath.

BC and Vanilla had progression. Go on any servers and you'd have a slew of guilds in ZG/MC a few in BWL and if you were lucky 1 maybe 2 guilds in naxx.

You'd have that glorious high warlord warrior sitting on his black war raptor right outside the AH afking for 4 days straight and everyone would run by stop and look at him for a few seconds and go about their business.

>>180302485
That's the thing, though. They always just attack the problem directly.

Wouldn't it be more effective if instead of just nerfing blue flame hellion rushes by making their build time 1 second longer or whatever the fuck, they try to come up with ways to give other races multiple ways to counter things? That way if A makes a move then B has several tools to counter it instead of just nerfing everything to shit so everything is worthless.

>>180302684
>When you hit 90 now you immediately start in the latest raid just like it was in cata and most of wrath.
nope. ToT will slap your shit if you're not properly prepared.

And old style progression fucking sucks. The further progressed guilds lack members because big parts of the playerpool arent progressed to that point, guilds are forced to run old content forever to gear up new players and alts and players that are good have to use shit tier entry level raid guilds and then abandon them further down the road when they get gear.
Losing well geared players, especially tanks meant that the guild was in deep shit too and player sniping was extremely common back then which also ruined many proper guilds.

All of that to maintain some retarded sense of superiority for a select few. Its not worth it at all and many who actually raided back then agree with me.

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>>180294575 (OP)

Wow OP, great job on making me cry

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>>180303537

So you run raid finder that Q's you up with 24 other retards for 2-3 weeks and you're all set whats the big deal. Player sniping and what not is still around its always gonna be part of MMO's. However I can understand the whole guild hopping thing to get to where you belong. Forget not everyone had a bro-tier guild for 2 and a half years.

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>"WoW is better than it's ever been, fucking nostalgia fags!"
>only started playing in cata

>>180300035
What's wrong with arenas?

>>180304172

nothing hes just bad.

>>180304170
>WoW was at the peak in Vanilla
>started in BC and never progressed past 5mans

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>>180304253

>Hasn't played the same character for seven years
>Remember when the top Hunter Survival talent was Lacerate

>Cthun feels
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j2S1d7Igy4

Oh man, I could wax poetic about Vanilla WoW for hours.

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>>180296408
2edgy4me, if you've never dabbled in a MMO you really should not be on /v/

The team that made the original game has been taken off WoW for years now and we've been stuck with the new team since like Wrath.
And the new team kinda blows.

Expect more of the same until whatever Titan is comes out.

>>180303537
The old system of progression wasn't perfect, and you are correct in that it encouraged very progressed guilds to feed off of the guilds below it.

The new system is quite a bit worse, though. WoW is now a system of menus and queues and the "progression" is basically being able to hit max level and shoot up to right under the current tier of gear in a like a week.

Combine this with the amount of time it takes the dev team to actually release content these days (we were without new content for 10 months during Cata) and it means that the game gets extremely stale for everyone very quickly.

>>180305573
Drunken MC runs were the best.

It was always so unreal how people were wiping on bosses when our guild would actively sabotage attempts on them by pulling pranks on each other.

Honestly it was something I never understood. Can someone explain it to me?

And if you did raid Vanilla, how far did you get?

Twin Emps + 3/3 spider wing + Razuvious here

>>180305229
maximum mad

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>>180305229
These strawman mspaints are total ass anon

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>>180306020
rage level: OC creation

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>>180305573
>WoW is now a system of menus and queues

This.

>Log in.
>Wait.
>Consider speccing heals or tank to not wait as much.
>Realize the game is playing me and I'm not playing the game.
>Log out.
>Consider unsubbing.
>Realize I have a few friends left who play and I want to talk to them.
>Weigh friendship versus my dissatisfaction with the game.
>Stop and realize this shit is too complicated.
>Unsub, do something else.

Why would they want to reboot it? They will keep it running and relevant until Titan comes out. Then it will go free to play, servers will be merged and shut down in less than 3 years.

>>180306240
how the -

>>180306393
why didn't you just add your friends on steam or elsewhere?

>>180305573
>and the "progression" is basically being able to hit max level and shoot up to right under the current tier of gear in a like a week.
Thats not a bad thing at all. Allows players who havent in a bit to catch up. Allows for a steady stream of raiders for the roster.

I dont give a shit about others dodging a tier or two. They werent doing it when it was fresh, I dont care if they could do it at some later point when its old and stale content. I treat every tier like an expansion reset.
Progress as much as possible before the new tier comes out. If I dont manage to do it in that time frame then I admit that I fucked up and move on to the next one.
And the only ones who are truly allowed to claim that content is stale are those that have fully cleared it, and those people are actually rare as fuck with most faggots being stuck on a boss and demanding different content to not be reminded of their failures.
And yes both Cata and WOTLK had way too long times with no content at all. That and the quality of the shit tier 13 raid in Cataclysm made Blizzard lose tons of customers.


And shit, if that "new team" is capable of releasing something like Throne of Thunder then to hell with those old team shitters.

>>180306648
Did you know people think Cthun would have been one of the easier bosses in later expansions?

>>180306393
How is it different from any other point in time when its about WoW?

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guys I'm going to go beat up everyone at blizzard for ruining wow and diablo
and then i'll move on to activison
and then i'll run rampant in the offices of EA
watch me /v/
i'll save video games

>>180306849
Definitely.
The mechanics are simple as shit.

>>180306708

Because honestly the entire thing is regressive.

You make friends in these games and it simply precludes you from any real life interaction.

You wake up one day and realize that none of it is real at all. The game is playing you, you're not playing it.

>>180306985
heh

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>>180306983
Go get em' tiger.

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>>180306847
>Thats not a bad thing at all. Allows players who havent in a bit to catch up. Allows for a steady stream of raiders for the roster.

But the revolving door roster is what killed WoW for a ton of people. Guilds dont stick together anymore.

>>180306997
What the fuck are you talking about?
Are you an idiot?
I have loads of WoW players on my steam and skype lists and I play loads of other games with them.

>>180306921
There was a time when WoW actually felt like a world and not a system of menus.
Like back when you had to walk out to dungeons and shit. It kind of sucked having one guy afk and then someone has to go back to town to get a fifth, but at the same time it made the game feel more like a world.

Now you just sit in Org or SW and queue over and over.

>>180306847
For me, content gets stale well before I've beaten on the hard modes and shit.
Yes, I know that you can make the claim that I really haven't beaten it until I've beaten it on hard mode, but seeing a boss with extra health and a new gimmick isn't the same as seeing a boss you've never seen before.

Getting to Kael and beating him was a real feat. You thought it was cool getting to see the fight, and you thought it was even cooler to finally kill his ass, because that shit was hard.

Now you get a free kill on every boss, and subsequent difficulties just give you slightly more challenge.

It just doesn't have as much charm for me. And that's really my complaint with modern wow, it has lost much of its charm. It's much more convenient and easy to play, but whatever it was that had me in love with the game during its early years is gone.

>>180297147

couldn't have said it any better

>>180307441
As a raid leader, that was awful.

I used to assign roles based on what the player was good at, not his class.

If you were a healer on spot heal duty on tank and spank fights you should have gotten offended.

>>180307441
>Guilds dont stick together anymore.
Thats fucking nonsense.
Guilds still stick together because they have to. You cant progress through HC content without a group of player that bands together. Cant have players leaving and joining nonstop. But not having to disband because a tank left at some point is a good thing.

>>180307621
>Now you just sit in Org or SW and queue over and over.
Nope. Not possible for raids, not possible for challenge modes.
And now there's a Quel Thalas equivalent, loads of open world bosses and raremobs that give people a reason to set out into the world. A better reason than back then either way.

>and subsequent difficulties just give you slightly more challenge.
>slightly
I dont believe that you even played the modern version of the game when you claim shit like that.
Its not slightly more of a challenge, and taking down some of the hardest content of the game is a great feeling.
What do you play the game for, the challenge, or just seeing that one enemy model die once no matter how?
Might as well watch the fight on youtube and call it a day.
Its literally like beating a game on easy mode and then bitching about it being too easy when there's shit left to do.

I simply think that you got bored with a game that is 7 years old.

World PvP doesn't exist anymore, or atleast it's a shadow of it's former self. A mixture of flying mounts and dungeon finder caused this, and it's terrible.

>>180304172
They are the reason why some classes don't function as well in pve as they should. Arenas are not exactly the real problem its the fact that Blizz absolutely refuses to use different numbers for pve vs pvp.

Arena as a concept is great, the implementation is fucking horrible.

>>180308717
PVE balance is amazing currently.
Its PVP thats fucking shit now but who cares about that.

>>180308432
>I simply think that you got bored with a game that is 7 years old.
Could be. Wrath pretty much killed my vanilla guild with the super long wait for Ulduar, and I haven't been on the cutting edge of progression since. I really just play on and off when friends get on wow kicks.

Either way, exploration is really important to me and seeing new bosses and new parts of dungeons was much of why I enjoyed it in the first place. That feeling when you killed one boss and got to see what was after him was really cool.
Now you can do all that on easy mode and it ruins it for me.

>>180308432
I don't think you've played vanilla.

Here's the metaphor I've used and people who have played modern and vanilla WoW agreed.

Older raid bosses were like flying a plane. Newer raid bosses were like figuring out where the hoops are and jumping through them.

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>>180308646
Thats a picture that was made this week.
World boss that 5 full raidgroups couldnt take down because too much server lag and alliance/horde not letting the other factions tag.

>>180308819
Well thats the inverse of it, granted I am talking off of my knowledge of how Cata went.

Either way the two affect each other in significant ways and they honestly shouldnt

>>180308931
You know what I do?
I ignore LFR.
The plan is to progress through the raid before the LFR version comes out.
I am properly T14 heroic geared as I put some effort into the last raid so I dont need to do T15 LFR.
Next week the first wing of T15 LFR will launch and our guild progressed beyond that on normal mode already so the plan is working out.

>>180309090
As it stands the metaphor is shit.
Care to elaborate?

>>180309103
artificial world pvp

>>180308432
>Guilds still stick together because they have to. You cant progress through HC content without a group of player that bands together. Cant have players leaving and joining nonstop. But not having to disband because a tank left at some point is a good thing.
It may have changed, but towards the end of me playing WoW one pug on my server were clearing hard mode content faster than some guilds. Mind you they used GDKP exclusively so a lot of people, me included, went for money.

>>180297147
>Remove LFR

Yes, this cheapened the novelty of raiding to an extreme. It's not even challenging. You show up, and so long as you just keep mashing buttons, you and the other nose pickers get some loot.

>Remove flying mounts
Blizzard said that flying mounts was a bad idea, but they can't remove them because people are already used to them. So instead they do things here n' there where they make certain zones (like the new ToT island) No fly zones.

>>180309382
I'm not him, but I think what he is saying is that the recent fights are based mostly around gimmicks and special abilities that are fairly straightforward and just require proper execution to beat the fight.

Some of the older bosses were very touchy and required you to watch the mechanics like a hawk
Bloodboil, for example, required tanks to manually build their threat and overtake each other as he stacked his debuff. That was hard on both tanks, since it was a bitch to build threat when you aren't the one being hit.
And that wasn't even the whole fight. Bloodboil did unreasonable amounts of single target damage, fixated on random people (and he was still hitting for unreasonable amounts of damage even if he decided to fixate a priest) and did an aoe damage/stacking debuff that required ranged DPS to change positions every 25-30 seconds as well as requiring the healers to be healing 15+ people at the same time.
Archimonde was another touchy as fuck fight, one fuck up from one person would wipe your entire raid.


Nowadays you have very reasonable bosses with very clear abilities that you just have to manage in the way that blizzard intended to to beat the fight.

every time a WoW thread pops up i just hide it and sage

just let it die, holy shit

>>180309382
Sure. In Vanilla WoW you spent a ridiculous amount of effort to make a kill go smoothly. It was fucking difficult to get a kill because things could go wrongly very quickly.

Modern raids were I guess more of an obstacle course. Obstacle course is better. It's almost as if Blizzard plans an encounter around the strategy rather than having a boss do things and making players make their own strategy.

Here's the thing about C'thun. If that eye beam jumps to anyone that doesn't have 5k hp (which was basically your Warriors, Shaman/Paladin and Warlocks) that guy died. So you had to position everything perfectly, nobody could be within I think it was 15 yards of each other. In the kill videos you won't see how hard that is. Hell if you never raided Vanilla or tried to kill him, you'd probably not understand how hard it was to make a fluid arrangement of 40 people which was still effective at doing the various things you had to do in that fight.

And I only killed Illidan (when he was an actual boss) before I quit, I can say that it holds up. That fight had zero surprises, I don't think we ever made any serious adjustments when trying to kill him. It was all "oh he does this" or "oh we can do this?" like we were waiting to see what happens next or as if we were asking Blizzard for permission.

>>180310086
There justification for LFR is that they made content that a small % of the population actually experienced. LFR would have been fine if they implemented it in different ways.

Harder for one would be great, the fact that you can brute force every encounter is fucking stupid.

Different loot tables should be implemented and the overall quality of the gear should be only a few ilvls up from heroic dungeon sets.

And finally it should lock out at minimum a third of the bosses until the complete end of the expansion or the next one.

As for flying mounts, yeah as much as they ruined the sense of exploration the game had they are impossible to remove now.

>>180294575 (OP)

WoW just got boring. Why pay 15 bucks a month when you can play dozens of other titles with online capabilities for free? We can't afford to shell out 15 bucks a month all the time.

>>180310384
Yeah so you dont know much about the game.
Kind of thought of that when you made that metaphor.

Positioning players 15 yards away from each other is neither difficult nor a special thing.
Dozens of other bosses had shit like that. Shit, Gruul made you do the exact same shit and you did him if you played BC as you claimed.

And how was it surprising when you knew that you needed that kind of positioning to beat him?
I dont get your point. C'Thun was designed like any other boss in the game, only that he was simpler than what you see nowadays.

>cthun
>easy
Cthun was mathematically impossible to beat for like three weeks.
Then someone figured out that he was impossible to beat and blizzard changed him to only be really nearly impossible to beat.

>>180311731
Nobody talks about C'Thun prenerf.
I dont even get how something like that gets past blizzard. Did they do no internal testing on their bosses back then?

Shit even now in MoP the two world bosses didnt drop their mounts and not even Blizzard knew about it until recently, with MoP being out for half a year now.
Everybody thought shit was just that rare.

>>180311175
>Grull

Pre nerf or post nerf?

Pre nerf he was untuned and unbeatable. Post nerf was a lot easier. I have no idea how you're comparing them, by the way. Grull was a tank and spank with an AoE and shatter.

In the Cthun encounter you had to hold that position up while killing 8 adds on a periodic timetable, which would deal enough damage to kill someone in 6 seconds if not interrupted. You had random tentacles knocking players in random directions and the Dark Glare (which you might think isn't that hard, but again, random tentacles, random directions, which meant the raid had significantly less room to work with, oh and the 6 second eye tentacle DoT? It was a mind flay).

And this was phase 1. In phase 2 Cthun would throw adds at you that could actually CAST that eye beam.

No idea where you're getting the idea that Grull was even close to similar to Cthun. Even the shatter was something that was predictable and completely avoidable. The eye beam came at someone every 2-3 seconds.

See that's the issue I have with modern raiders. You see "stand 15 yards away from each other" and you say "ok I have to stand 15 yards away from each other" and then you see "he has adds, I have to kill them quickly" and you don't understand that standing 15 yards away from each other makes that a lot harder.

>>180311946
I love talking about prenerf C'thun. That was such a huge story that like nobody really heard.

>>180311946
>gets past blizzard
It was intentional. They didn't want anyone beating the boss until Naxx was closer to ready.
It's a concern that the current development team doesn't really pay attention to, but blizzard back then cared about making sure raiders had content that wasn't stale.

>>180312435
Blizzard was convinced that C'thun was possible after the hotfix. They had that whole drama with Furor about it.

>>180312009
>and then you see "he has adds, I have to kill them quickly" and you don't understand that standing 15 yards away from each other makes that a lot harder.
wow. really?
you dont say!
You act as if fights didnt pull that shit all the time.
Bosses have more mechanics now than they used to have.

Compare C'Thun to Yogg Saron 0 lights. Its like they are from completely different games.

>>180312435
If thats true then thats fucking horrible and shows that the team was filled with retards and straight up assholes.
You dont add unkillable bosses just to stall players.

>>180312623
>Bosses have more mechanics now than they used to have.
So more mechanics = harder fight?

>>180312737
Why yes of course.
More to watch out for.

>>180312839
And you're standing behind that as absolute fact?

>>180312623
>full of assholes
Well, Tigole was on the dev team. Tigole is an asshole by any meaning of the word.

>>180312974
And a liar.

>>180312901
yes.
more mechanics means more variables means more difficulty.

>>180313474
Do you understand how it's harder to jump through hoops if there are more hoops? Or that it's harder to complete an obstacle course if there are more obstacle courses?

While aircraft pilots train for years to make flights as eventless as possible?

>>180312974
>yfw Tigole destroyed Paladins, Shamans, and Druids in the last patch before launch because he hated hybrid classes

>>180313605
If each hoop is a foot off the ground, its not hard, just repetitive. That's what Modern WoW is: Repetitive, not hard.

ESO will kill WoW. I'm dead serious. They learned from GW2's mistakes.

>>180313703
Hybrid classes wanted to be 3 classes in 1 and were offended when they were worse than a mage, warrior or priest at their respective jobs.

Fuck 'em.

>>180294575 (OP)
that pic is kinda sad. I don't even play WoW or any other MMO.

>>180313703
He didn't destroy them, he made them what he thought they should be back in his EQ days of raging at the game by lagging it with his boycotts: Nothing but healers.

>>180313812
Then there is literally no point in having them. None.

>>180313605
You still try to minimize failure and maximize efficiency.
Its just that now the weather is way more stormy.

Metaphor is shit, as said at the start.

>>180313812
>making up retarded shit words like "hybrid tax"
>warriors still end up being great DPS while being the only viable tanks
so much bullshit.
and the worst is that retards like you defend it.

>>180314242
Guess what class Tigole was in EQ?

>>180314079
>more stormy
Did you know that healers could only cast about 10-20 heal spells consecutively before going out of mana?

>but my encounter has THINGS going on
Classes are inherently way more powerful outside Vanilla. And my metaphor gets a lot worse when you use it incorrectly, asshole.

>>180314242
Warriors were OP as shit. Warriors being imba doesn't mean Druids should be just as effective as Mages except they can toss out a heal when necessary. That makes mages obsolete.

>>180314379
>Did you know that healers could only cast about 10-20 heal spells consecutively before going out of mana?
Wrong. They downranked their spells.

>>180314453
>its ok if warriors do it, just dont let the druids be similar

>>180314489
They had to. But they missed out on a lot of healing when they did that.

>>180314453
Then Mages, Rogues, and Warlocks (the only classes that aren't hybrids) should have been designed with more roles.

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>>180302234
You can get a free mount from a goblin vendor in Sholzar and Storm Peaks that works in the zones that require flying to get around, they are slow but I'm saving shekels.

>>180314379
>Did you know that healers could only cast about 10-20 heal spells consecutively before going out of mana?
Thats wrong as healers downscaled their spells to make up for a lack of better healing spell design.

>Classes are inherently way more powerful outside Vanilla.
And? More abilities, more to manage, more to deal with.
Just shows that the game got additional depth and difficulty later on.

>And my metaphor gets a lot worse when you use it incorrectly
I use it exactly the same way you use it.

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>>180314612
Could probably make more moolah from being able to quest/pick nodes faster

>>180314679
>Thats wrong as healers downscaled their spells to make up for a lack of better healing spell design.
"You can cast your best heal spell and not worry about mana" isn't better.

>More abilities, more to manage, more to deal with.
Less ability, more difficulty.

>I use it exactly the same way you use it.
You compared modern raiding to flying a plane. The entire point of my metaphor was that it wasn't like that.

>>180314586
Roles such as?

>>180294575 (OP)

I think they could reboot it and have another success on their hands, I doubt it would be to the level 12 million players but it could be awesome. But they won't. The most we will get are vanilla servers that only add in patches and expansions after a certain period.

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>>180300668
There is more depth to zones now that flying is an option, you can actually add more content in zones for higher level players because flying is a barrier for lower leveled players giving more incentive to explore and complete new quests rather than sitting in the current main city waiting for raids.

No idea what possesed them to go the Firelands 2.0 route. Friends still subbed tell me 5man queues jumped 20m on avg and he has nothing to do in-between raid nights because the new zone is a mountless shitfest they are trying to force down people's throats in the name of world exploring.

AFAIK, Firelands caused the largest dip in subs ever for a single patch. Why would they repeat it? I'd blame Activision, but if they had their jew hands in it, they probably would have facepalmed the decision in the name of profit. This is just an a-class neoBlizz fuckup.

>>180314679
>And? More abilities, more to manage, more to deal with.
>Just shows that the game got additional depth and difficulty later on.


Wrong. It's exactly the same. It's the illusion of choice.

Put another way: Do you want me to kick you in the nuts or give you $5?

>>180314908
Rogues could have been designed as evasion tanks with combat. Mages could have their fire spec heal. Warlocks could have been tanks by having demonology turn them into Illidan as it does later.

>>180314850
>"You can cast your best heal spell and not worry about mana" isn't better.
Ah the part where you expose that you have no clue about the game.

>Less ability, more difficulty.
less abilities, less choices,less ways to fuck up, less difficulty.

>You compared modern raiding to flying a plane. The entire point of my metaphor was that it wasn't like that.
And I argued that it is like flying a plane but with more, which it is when you compare old raiding to new raiding.

You didnt even play past BC. Why do you even talk?

>>180315067
Its not an illusion of choice, you dont know what that term means.

>>180315093
>Ah the part where you expose that you have no clue about the game.
Paladin healing in Kara consisted of spamming FoL the entire time.

>>180315220
>Kara
thats 5 years ago you idiot
And in vanilla healers spammed their low level heals too so I dont get what your point is.

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>This is the best and most challenging questline in a long time
>It's doomed to be nerfed to hell.

>>180315093
You clearly didn't play before BC to any serious capacity to where you are qualified to talk about vanilla raiding. Why should that stop me? At least I talk to people who I know IRL from time to time about it. (Hint: somehow they got a lot better in later expansions)

>less abilities, less choices,less ways to fuck up, less difficulty.
Yeah in some fights you didn't have a choice. You had to do something with much fewer tools. That's harder. Having a button that counters an ability a boss throws at you isn't difficulty.

>>180315067
>Rogues could have been designed as evasion tanks with combat. Mages could have their fire spec heal. Warlocks could have been tanks by having demonology turn them into Illidan as it does later.
I would have enjoyed this. I really would have. An expanding of roles and possibility, instead of their decision to homogenize everything. Like making only one DK spec tanking, and the other two DPS, when that was one of the main things about the hero class: each spec could tank.

They're just fucking lazy as shit nowadays. They go on about how creating class quests for every class would've taken up all the time that the Isle of Thunder took, so they only made a Warlock class quest. SO HIRE MORE FUCKING PEOPLE SO YOU CAN CREATE MORE CONTENT. You fuckers are rolling in cash, for Christ's sake.

>>180315360
Their low level heals didn't do anything other than trade potency for efficiency.

>>180315360
Yes, but in Kara it was max ranked FoL. In MC/whatever it was a lower rank than max. I think I got away with rank 4 or 5 HL when the cap was 7 or 8? It was before the coefficient went down.

>>180315489
Rogues have a fight in AQ where they "Tank" and one where they "offtank".

Depending on your definition of tank.

>>180315427
You clearly dont have any capacity to talk about any sort of raiding with your lack of experience.

Especially with claims like
>Having a button that counters an ability a boss throws at you isn't difficulty.
Something like that doesnt exist.

>>180315872
>Something like that doesnt exist.
Cleanse and Chromagus. Earhtbind totem and the first fight in BWL.

>>180315489
>Like making only one DK spec tanking, and the other two DPS, when that was one of the main things about the hero class: each spec could tank.
They tried it and they fucked it up. Its better now.
DKs in WOTLK were out of control.

>>180315990
I thought you wanted to defend vanilla design.

>>180315058
Because Blizzard is too busy listening to people wanting vanilla back ignoring how their biggest subscriber jumps happened with all of their "blunders" in TBC and WotLK.

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LOOK INTO THE EYES OF THE WOW KILLER AND DESPAAAAAAAIR!

>>180315872
Fine, more abilities to counter what a boss does doesn't make a boss harder. Happy?

>>180316075
I'm not him. Seems odd that he's talking about abilities that each faction lacked- meaning both factions had to learn how to deal without either skill.

Our horde guild didn't use Earthbind anyway.

>>180316185

Won't break 200k subs before going F2P 6 months later.

>>180315058
It wasnt firelands that caused the dip, it was Dragon Soul.
Rightfully so.

People ask for open world pvp, exploration and shit to do, here it is.
People bitch about 5mans being the only content, now they bitch about not being able to do 5mans as efficiently as they did before.

>>180316296
I'm pretty sure it's releasing as F2P.

>>180315427
>People getting better as time passes
It makes sense especially seeing how most current raids are harder than shit in vanilla and BC, pre-nerf Sunwell excluded.

>>180315993
>DKs in WOTLK were out of control.
Hilariously, it was a roller coaster. At first they were very good, OP even. Then by the end they were compete and total shit.

>>180316075
No, I'm one of the ones who all but cleared Naxx 40 due to not having enough warriors(Cleared 4H twice then couldn't as two warrior tanks left and we couldn't replace them....) and think that WotLK was better than BC and vanilla because it was more balanced than the other two. Note the more in there.

>>180316273
Only mentioned it because it was the two most jarring in my memory because of how much easier those fights were for one faction over the other.

>>180316185
I refuse to play that because one of the FIRST FUCKING ROGUE ABILITY IS HURR CLANG.

>>180316185
What is this now?
All this shit looks the same.

>>180316371

Dragon Soul recouped close to 2m after blunderlands. It tapered off with the life of the expansion, but that's just expected of any game expansion.

Point is they are very selective about the vocal minorities they listen to, and then appeal to stats in their defense.

Well, the stats indicate Firelands was the worst thing they could have done again, yet here we are.

>>180316445
"You didn't get any more skilled, you switched to a better class" from WoW.

Wait do modern WoW players seriously think the people who played back in Vanilla are worse than people who play now? That's moderately insulting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHJVolaC8pw

>>180316579
Sorry, that quote was from World of Roguecraft

>>180316445
>current raids are harder than shit in vanilla and BC, pre-nerf Sunwell excluded.

But they're not.

>>180316560
Afaik the dip in playernumbers from firelands came from both the raids difficulty and the difficulty of the ZA/ZG remakes in 4.1.
LFG pugs couldnt deal with the new ZG, especially with the last boss and blizzard didnt nerf shit like in 4.0.

I remember some GMs mentioning stuff like that which lead to the 5man Dragonsoul instances being piss and the introduction of LFR.

And personally I doubt that the daily region caused people to unsubscribe.

Orou and C'thun were so difficult they actually had to nerf both before anyone killed them.

Vanilla WoW is superior in difficulty.

>>180316942
oh yes they are.

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>>180316185
beta's been pretty fun.
went in not expecting much, but it looks good.
healing's a bitch if you're used to tab target, spam X.

think DCUonline+Baldurs gate Dark allaince

>>180317087
NO FUCK YOU AND FUCK HURR CLANG.

>>180317047
Cthun didn't get changed as much as people think.

They reduced the HP of the phase 2 tentacles and made the timer freeze during vulnerabilities

>>180316579
>Wait do modern WoW players seriously think the people who played back in Vanilla are worse than people who play now?
Not as a modern player but yes, and I will defend that forever as someone who played from the start.

>>180317087
looks like some medieval sims.

>>180316942
Mechanically they are, compare any boss from Vanilla to something from any other expansion and you'll see the difference in power mainly from better programming on Blizzards part.

>>180316296
It's already F2P and it's managed by Perfect World soooo
won't pass 100k before dying

>>180317223
Vanilla paladin trying to DPS:
SoC,
Occasionally Consecreate,

BC Paladin trying to DPS:
SoWisdom/Light/Crusder,
Judge,
SoBlood,
Crusader Strike,
DIVINESTORM,
Consecrate,
Judge,
SoBlood,
Crusader Strike
etc. etc.

Hm, which is harder?

Blizzard's done with WoW. They'll keep it alive enough to keep some subscription fees coming in, but the heights of the MMO genre are far behind us. They're working on their next big MMO, and it's going to be something closer to a F2P action RPG.

>>180317449
>Mechanically they are
What does that even fucking mean?

Vael was one of the hardest bosses in Vanilla and mechanically he was simpler than Firemaw.

>>180315058

So it's like...

Being an artist. And you make a picture for a client w/ robot sharks and exploding monkeys.

You fucking love robot sharks

But the clients. THEM CLIENTS, MAN

They like the monkeys better. So you put it on exhibit.

Everybody loves the fucking monkeys, too. Christ!

You survey the crowd. They all like the monkeys better than the sharks!

But fuck them! They don't understand! They don't know!

Know what they're getting in your next piece? Goddamn robot shark armies!

That's the current Blizz. Manchidlren designing for themselves, who also happen to sell to manchildren. There is no pleasing, and no end to your hubris, so fuck it

>>180317047
If they had to get nerfed before anyone killed them they were overtuned and couldn't be killed, it's like making a boss than just one shots everyone no matter your health or gear and going "HURF DURF THIS EXPANSION SO HARD".

>>180317181
>HURR CLANG
What the fuck are you talking about?

>>180317728
>it's like making a boss than just one shots everyone no matter your health or gear and going "HURF DURF THIS EXPANSION SO HARD".

So the difficulty of an encounter is independent of tuning?

>>180317647
>Vael was one of the hardest bosses in Vanilla
what
my server pugged him.

>>180317613
>vanilla paladin trying to DPS
emphasize on trying.

>>180318052
Before or after Holy Nova?

Actually that kinda proves my point about abilities and boss fights.

When was WoW at its peak?

>>180317726
You make no sense.

>>180318181
Whenever the Anon responding to you played it
>Ulduar

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>>180317831
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Bloody_Path

It's the stupidiest ability in 4e and you get it before you leave the tutorial zone in NWN online.

>>180317926
impossible bosses arent difficult, they are impossible.
difficulty ceases to exist at this point as there is no way to beat them.
an impossible boss is simply broken and nothing more.

>>180317647
>Vael
It was only hard if you were a healer, tanking or DPSing that fight was piss easy since you didn't need to move or worry about adds.

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>Implying WoW wasn't always casual shit

>>180318181
I don't know, somewhere between IQD and Ulduar.

>>180318181
Any time before Cata when you had a good guild of friends and the community on your server hadn't quite gone to shit.

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>>180318412
It was, but it was our casual shit.

>>180318342
So they're either impossible or their difficulty is directly related to the number of mechanics they have?

>>180318369
Not quite. Hard on all fronts. The transitions could be brutal

>>180318181
I havent done all the bosses yet, but if the stuff after tortos is as good as what came before him then we're at the peak right now with 5.2 and all of its additions.

>>180318236

That's because you have autism.

>>180318560
What are you talking about?
Are you stupid? How is a boss that is not defeatable difficult?

It seems like all the big problems with wow are because of things everyone wanted that just happened to backfire.

>>180318931
I totally agree that impossibly tuned bosses are bad.

You, however, said that bosses are only as difficult as the number of mechanics.

Which seems to indicate that, given a boss is properly tuned, it's impossible for the fight to be difficult because of stuff like how hard the boss hits for.

>>180318925
I wish my autism was strong enough to manipulate random people over the internet into typing retarded shit.
I would be like some

I would become autismo the super villain

>>180318181
Black Temple

>>180319040
>listening to the average WoW player.

Actually I might be willing to concede that the average WoW player was awful in vanilla. Doesn't mean anything, really. It only happened because the "upper tier" of guilds had secrets that they didn't want to share.

Which was a holdover from EQ. A lot of the old wowwiki strats are pretty awful.

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>>180319082
>Which seems to indicate that, given a boss is properly tuned, it's impossible for the fight to be difficult because of stuff like how hard the boss hits for.
what

>>180319040
People tend to not know what they want, most of the best content from Blizzard is when they kept it a secret until it was unveiled or basically ignored everyone.

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>old wow sucked because it was nothing but grinding
>new wow is much better and completely different
You hit level 90 and grind daily quests every day to get rep in order to unlock epics which you have to buy with valor points that you have to grind from raids and heroic dungeon queues.
After getting that gear you have to grind epics from the raid finder in order to catch up to the latest tier. Its not even a guarantee you will get anything from LFR, so you have to wait for the next week. This is a system of constantly cycling through disposable gear. Why these vendor epics are purple instead of just blue is beyond me.

This game is the same shit as it was then except now the grind is made worse from the sheer convenience of the dungeon finder(spamming random dungeons)
There are challenges here and there like the challenge mode heroics and the heroics raids but you just have to wade through so much bullshit to get to them.
You also have to put up with one of the worst online communities imaginable. I know Vanilla and TBC had its share of retards but these people have become just plain entitled.

Whenever I see people defend Mists of Dailycraft its always the same thing
>but in vanilla you had to grind for gear
The complaints about grinding in vanilla came from the fact that most fights required you to farm consumables and resistant pots. Not to mention the eternal hell that was being a warlock. The only real gear you grinded in vanilla wow was resist gear and that was bullshit.

I swear its like the majority of people who complain about vanilla never fucking played it

>>180294575 (OP)

>WoW goes down and down
>all other blizzard games fail as they did with SC2 and Diablo3
>blizzard is sold while they are still worth something to some korean company like ncsoft
>WoW is turned into absolute jew mode, plummet even further down the drain
>goes f2p and all the other shit korean mmos do
>the new MMO is axed since blizzard has noone with any talent in it anymore
>they force them to make facebook and mobile games, no more mmos ever

This is the future.

>>180319481
>The complaints about grinding in vanilla came from the fact that most fights required you to farm consumables and resistant pots.
No, every fight you were progressing on required you to farm massive number of pots or else you were holding your group back. It was terrible.

>>180319263
They should stop doing PTRs

I want to be surprised when I see a patch

>>180319481
>actually doing dailies and grinding gear in mop
lel

>>180319481
>implying the fact that you were a warlock does more than make up for every downside ever placed on them

>>180319621
Remove mmochamp from your bookmarks.
Problem solved.

>>180319245
Really, ok.

You have a boss. It's perfectly tuned.

You have a second boss. It is perfectly tuned.

Boss 1 has 2 abilities that you have to look out for as a raid. Boss 2 has 3 abilities that you have to look out for as a raid. Which one is harder?

Boss 1 is Vaelstrasz.
Boss 2 is Firemaw.

>>180318181

TBC, pre 2.4 casual patch.

LFD killed communities and while communities built in TBC could survive well into Wrath, new ones were just shit.
The community made the game good in TBC, just how like it made the game terrible since WTLK.

>>180319621
The warlock green fire quest is seriously one of the best quests they've made; and from PTR to live they basically overhauled the final boss without a word. It'll get nerfed because:
>it's too hard ;_;

Though

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>>180318369
>vael was only hard if you were a healer
That's wrong though. That fight was hard for the majority of roles.
The fight gave you unlimited rage, mana and energy. That meant a dps could just unload on the boss.
Now the problem here is that the majority of dps roles then did not have a thread dump. A warlock could easily pull aggro over the tank with unlimited mana.
Remember this was vanilla wow. Tanks did not have as much thread generation as of now. This tank had to hold thread against almost a full raid with unlimited resources.
People had to watch their threat or instantly be killed. Not to mention that fight was a dps race at its core because of the mechanic that caused people to instantly die throughout the fight

>>180319601
>No, every fight you were progressing on required you to farm massive number of pots or else you were holding your group back. It was terrible.
Untrue. Except Naxx. And even then, only a few Naxx fights.

You could get by by having 2/3 backpacks filled with alternate gear as a caster.

>>180319890
>Not to mention that fight was a dps race at its core because of the mechanic that caused people to instantly die throughout the fight
This is wrong.

>>180319890

>thread
>thread
>thread

Get the fuck out.

>>180319621
They'll never remove it though because every aspect of this game has become this gay little competitive esport
>we have to go into the PTR and farm the bosses so we can down the raid on the first night
These people are scum and are what killed video games

>>180319782
Firemaw wasnt perfectly tuned at all.

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Wow will probably take along time to die off. Definitely not before titan is released, it's just too big to bust at this point.

I would resub immediately if they opened a vanilla or burning crusade server.

>>180320063
He's actually kinda right, kinda wrong. Not wrong.

Essence of the Red wearing off didn't wipe you.

>>180320082
>he typed out the wrong word
>get em boys
Are we still doing this?

>>180320131
What was wrong with him?

>>180320221
No, he's wrong. The mechanic he's talking about didn't instantly kill you. It's binary.

>>180319890
Watching omen is not a difficult thing and main DPS shitters like Rogues could spam their feint.

>>180320345
It did, but not really.

It would reduce your HP to low enough for his AoE to kill you. But if BA did expire you died instantly.

Really kinda nitpicky. But no, Vael didn't just explode people.

>>180320221
>Essence of the Red wearing off didn't wipe you.
No to many people dieing to burning adrenaline was what wiped you.
You also needed a lot of fire resist for that fight because he aoe fire damaged most of the raid

>>180320192
>I would resub immediately if they opened a vanilla or burning crusade server.

I am waiting for it to lose even more subs so they have give in and do this to get a lot back.
Ofcourse its like admitting that they have been doing shit for the last 4 years so its a long way from here.

>>180313784
see everyone says NEXT BIG MMO IS WoW KILLER but it never happens :/

>>180320263

>typed it wrong 3 times

>>180320589
They wont do it because its a shit idea.

>>180320192
EQ is still "alive"

>>180320346
>the fight was easy when you lay it out like this
Don't be that guy. It was a hard fight and broke up a lot of guilds

>>180320719

How?

Half the people on all private servers just want to play the old expansions.
I would personally re-roll on a TBC server made by blizz in a blink of an eye.

>>180320345
Essence of the Red didn't kill you burning adrenaline did

>>180320820
It was a difficult fight for other reasons.

>>180301061
I've heard nothing but good things from people I used to play with about game balance. I plan on coming back with HotS and I feel like you are VERY wrong about it going to bomb.

Throne of Thunder is actually not that bad. Its just a shame that everything else in the game is complete shit

>>180320830
Most people play on private servers because they are free.

And yes its a shit idea.
It would need a completely new support staff that was trained to maintain an old as fuck server.
Those servers arent in synch with the new battlenet.
Many features that have been added since then are simply not there.
Old problems and design mistakes would never get fixed.
New content would never get released.
No fixes would ever get applied.

It wouldnt pay off at all. The people who want those old servers are an extreme minority.

>>180320939
No, the tank rotations was pretty much the big one. Healers did have it tough, yeah, but it required pretty precise positioning from the tanks.

I will say that it's possible that farming newer bosses is harder than farming older ones. I don't think that's a flaw of vanilla raiding though.

Fuck off, cross realm bullshit was nothing but good for the game.

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I recently resubbed and made a human mage because of those old elwynn feels.
So far Elwynn forest is just how I remember it. Just a few cosmetic changes and some flight paths which is convenient. Hogger wasn't a group quest anymore though.
Then I got to Westfall and I believe the dreaded cata curse is rearing its head.
The first thing you see when you walk into Westfall is a CSI Miami reference. Its so fucking out of place that its hurts. Not to mention they killed Old Blanchy.
Please tell me this is a rare occurrence.