>>52661713
Because he is not a completely shitheaded moron, Marche realizes that this is not OK. You can't just wish away your problems, or new ones will come up. Doned was becoming kind of a douche and criminal. Mewt was being a general asshole to the entire population, and his mommy issues were taking control of his life. Ritz begins to realize that she has to go home and face her problems near the end, which is why she ends up helping Marche. Cid realizes the same thing earier, being arguably the most mature character in the game, and helps Marche as well.

When Marche dissolves the dream world, he's convinced his friends that they can't just fall into escapism when they see problems with their life. This is shown by each and every one of his friends beginning to deal with their fucking problems in real life. No, they are not completely better, but that's the entire moral of the fucking game.

You just thinks that Marche is a villain because most of you on here don't understand that you have to live with your problems and make the most of what you have and do your best to improve your life, not sit around waiting for shit to get better.

But what about his brother

>>52661792
His brother was born without the use of his legs and needs to learn how to deal with it.

Hey, look at that. An awesome fantasy world where everything that was shitty about our lives is reversed and everything is great.


NO. YOU HAVE TO GO BACK. GO BACK TO STRUGGLING THROUGH YOUR NORMAL LIFE.

>>52661826
Yes, that is the entire point of the game.

>>52661816
DEAL WITH IT, NERD

>>52661826
The book was feeding on them, though. They would have died in one way or another.

He also killed every resident of Ivalice. That's some straight up genocidal maniac shit there.

>>52661945
And? They'd die in the real world, too.

>>52661879
>>52661816
REMINDS ME OF MY COUSIN, FRANKLIN. HE GOT FUCKING POLIO BUT DID HE BITCH AND WHINE AND MOAN

NO SIR

HE HELD HIMSELF UP WITH JUST HIS ARMS AND TRICKED THE ENTIRE AMERICAN PUBLIC INTO THINKING ALL WAS WELL

ROOSEVELT BLOOD IS STRONGEST BLOOD

FUCK THAT SHIT YOU'RE GOING HOME

OP here.

Is there an actual argument for Marche being the villain that isn't "FUCK THIS YOUR GOING HOME"?

Always nice to meet an anon who agrees with me that marche was not the villain.

I actually take it further originally this was mewts dream world, and people say that marche had no right to YOUR GOING HOME, but I believe since marche's ability and dedication overpowered mewts (at least conscience desires) it was rightfully Marches choice for what happens, as he became the most powerful individual in Ivalace.

Not sure I agree about Ivalice being a dreamworld though, what gives you that impression? I

>>52661952
It. Was. A. Dream. World.

None of it was real. He had to destroy the dream Ivalice to free his friends from its grasp.

>>52661952
you kill very few people in that game (remember the judges were there for that exact reason), unless you went out of your way to the jagads or whatever they were called and killed every clan you could find.

>>52662153
Nope.
I agree with your post, OP.

>>52662212
Can you prove that the common citizens of Ivalice weren't sapient? Because they seemed plenty self aware to me.

The people of Ivalice act just like real people, with their own memories, desires and families. Are they supposed to have been unaware "zombies" the entire time? It's never addressed. If they aren't, then saying it's okay to kill them is a form of bigotry.

"realism," if you will.

>>52662271
you yourself are in a dream world, but you are lead to believe its real, please kill yourself to escape the facade

>>52662364
I always thought everyone who was not in that room was sorta "Brainwashed" but cid would create a counterpoint as i think he remembered the other world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeCd2dLWS7s

Was this ment to be the 'True Ending' or just an 'Extra Alternative' Ending?

>>52661754
>you just thinks

This copypasta tastes stale...

>>52662388
what? He is saying that you cant kill those people because of the laws

>>52662502
Dude, I just wrote it earlier today. It's not even really copypasta.

>>52662388
There's a 1/10 chance you are indeed living in a computer simulation from a incredibly more advanced civilization.
So indeed, just kill yourself.

>>52661816

Except that nothing makes St. Ivalice any more real then Ivalice and he was more then willing to fix his friends "escapism" at the risk of wiping out an entire reality, killing everyone in it.

Mewt used the magic of the grimoire to wish for a fantasy world. That bitch that was his dream mother granted that because thats what she does. It was said in game that all the residents of St. Ivalice became residents of Ivalice in 1 fashion or another. Marche thinks this is unhealthy and ends it. Whats odd is that only the kids are aware of the existence of both worlds. By this I mean St. Ivalice's Cid didn't show awareness of Fantasy Ivalice. Maybe The kids were stuck in this sync'd dream state?

>>52662466
I think it was just a bonus, and would not make sense otherwise as they all "left" Ivalice.

Take note Square-Enix: This is what happens when you try to teach people the moral that it's not good to run away from your problems within a FUCKING VIDEO GAME.

>>52662466
Last Arc
True Ending

>>52662933

EVERYTHING MUST BE BLACK AND WHITE

I DON'T LIKE AMBIGUITY

>You can't just wish away your problems
Actually, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT FUCKING HAPPENED.
Problems gone, no repercussions, just straight up gone.

>>52662466
When Marche realize that Ivalice is another world and not an Illusion they stay in Ivalice, That is the true ending

I believe that this is an old meme, but....

the thing you wanna discuss, actually is the same with pondering wether Sora and Riku is a Genocide maniac, since some of people think that heartless and nobodies also can be counted as race, so... yeah...

but still, YMMV

>>52662466
This is no more than an Alternative Ending.
Mewt appears in the second game, FFTA2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vr30wmHG3l8#t=1m40s
Proving that the ending that was used was the normal ending in FFTA.

of course they all go back, in ffta2 the librian who is supposed to do the detention is mewt right?

>>52663015
lol no. I think you better reread the thread, junior. Moral ambiguity has nothing at all do with my point. SE tried to use a good moral in the storyline and it's entirely true that you shouldn't just run away from your problems; they aren't going to solve themselves. They just choose a poor medium for it. You write a storyline about kids with shitty lives and how they end up in the Final Fantasy world. Suddenly, their lives are awesome! Then they, and the player, are suppose to realize that they can't stay in this world and they need to learn to face their problems. Nobody at SE saw anything wrong with this? Trying to teach gamers, of all people, that escapism is bad?

>>52663299
>>52663313
2ndgame mewt mind

>>52663355
teaching gamers that escapism is bad is a bad thing?

>>52661713

Whats wrong with his hair and clothes? Seriously imagine someone in real life looking like that, fuck

>>52661826
>>52661826
Pretty much this, they had the best thing that could have happened to them, happen

And marche pretty much started projecting his own problems at everyone else, going into the nihilistic "NO LIFE SUCKS YOUR LIFE HAS TO SUCK EVERYTHING HAS TO SUCK"

in a way it makes marche even worse than the others avoiding their problems. While they were avoiding it, they weren't trying to spray them all over everyone else like a pump full of shit.

>>52663467
Holy christ, you fuckers are retarded.

It's not bad; it's just inherently flawed and most likely won't have the desired impact.

>>52663467
It was done in a bad way. Many people play video games as an escape from problems.

>>52661945
Yes, but Marche didn't know that before he decided to destroy Ivalice.

>>52661826

>>52663619
Of course it will not have the appropriate impact, the target audience for that game probably did not even know what escapism is. My question relates to why is it bad that SE let that idea go through, im sure they reached a few people, and its a more positive message than most games.
>>52663674
I personally liked the irony.

>>52663881
disregard that I suck cocks etc. I was not reading your first sentence, I totally agree with you

Everyone seems to forget that in the opening scene you can clearly see that all the bangaas and moogles and everyone else are just real-world people that were transformed. And nearly all of them hated Mewt's rules and faggoty laws. Sure, Marche may have had 3 friends that like the fantasy world better than real life, but for nearly everyone else the fantasy world was shit, and they were better off going back.

>>52663818
Marche didn't 'destroy' anything. You don't destroy your dreams when you wake up; they never existed.

>>52662462
Hmm, the real world did seem to "pause" while they were in Ivalice, and as I recall there was some scene where it showed everyone turning into bangaas and shit.

But still, Cid only started to remember the real world once Marche started killing Totemas. Until that point, as far as any random viera was concerned, Ivalice was an intact and separate world. And, for some, a *better* world. What does it even mean to say that their world is "fake?"

What if some little shit came up to you and told you that you were living in a fantasy world, that there's a much less pleasant "real" world, and come on let's destroy the earth so he can get back to his old life. Would you go along with it?

Well, too bad, you don't get a choice. Some ten-year-old just decided for you. Welcome back to the real world, motherfucker.

>>52663881
>My question relates to why is it bad that SE let that idea go through

Are you trolling me? Did you miss the part where I said it wasn't bad? I just said it was inherently flawed. A lot of people play games to escape their shitty lives. SE makes a game about characters just like that and how this new fantasy world makes them so happy. Then it's all taken away from them and they're suppose to walk away with the lesson that it's better to face your problems than close your eyes and pretend they don't exist. SE honestly didn't think that people would miss the point? THAT'S why it's inherently flawed.

>>52664188
And yet if he hadn't done what he did, that Ivalice would have gone on existing, no one would have woken up, and it wouldn't have been a dream: it'd have been reality.

>>52664255
Probably, but im a pessimist and love excuses to use guns.

>>52664369
:-/

>>52664188
Fine, argue semantics. The point is that Marche had no initial reason to hate Ivalice except that to him, Ivalice wasn't real.

>>52664255

If you could choose to be asleep forever, would you?

Fully aware that your body in real life was rotting in a bed? Would you be fully content with yourself?

>>52664335
yeah i did, its late here, and im focusing on minecraft, thats my excuse, but I did say to disregard that post.

>>52661713
dat ass

>>52664360
>>52664457
You guys don't get it. Read OPs post and think about the effect Ivalice was having on Mewt and Doned.

>>52664457
I would probably hate any place that i just got thrown into out of nowhere and almost got my ass kicked by a lizardman

>>52664556
We don't find out about Mewt and Doned until we destroy the first totema, after Marche decides to go home.

>>52664651
Also, if you beat the game there are post-missions were Marche stays in Ivalice and becomes the next Judge. Srsly

>>52664459
The main reason this seems so distasteful is because of the imagery you used. Marche wasn't wasting away comatose in the real world, he had entirely disappeared into Ivalice.

Now, the other reason this seems unpleasant is because you used the term "fully aware." The average dude on the street was not aware that there was a real world. They would have been content to go on living their dream life until they died of old age.

As for me, I might get sick of Ivalice and want to return, but I sure as hell wouldn't be arrogant enough to make the decision for everyone.

>>52661713
But what is life?

As Rene Decartes said "I think therefore I am".

Babus was clearly thinking independently, therefore he is alive. Thus fantasy turned into reality.

It's funny how one of the games in the series most commonly written off as kiddy shit has a better and more discussed plot than any of the others.

>>52664799
see
>>52662466

>>52664902
But what if you only think you're thinking?