true

Play the game first.

I agree, he re-crippled his brother, what a prick!

Yes.

>>46897300
It was ESCAPISM.

IT ISN'T HEALTHY.

That kid was a douche anyway, destroyed my fucking magicite.

Yes, he was a prick, but he was also LOLDEALWITHITITSLIFEFAGGOT

Obligatory.

Haven't seen this posted in a long while.

That's impossible. We play from his viewpoint and follow his motives, that makes him a protagonist. He is a villain, though.

>>46897466

Not really, I was playing and he just felt like the antagonist to me.

Even if there was a real world outside of Ivalice, there was a world inside too. In Ivalice, everyone from the real world was there, and then some.
Marche essentially commited mass murder by undoing the existence of all the new people. He also took everyone else away from a fantasyland where their wishes came true.

Marche = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_protagonist

>>46897537

I love This game so much

>>46897525

The antagonist is whoever gets in the way of the protagonist. The protagonist is the leading character, not the good guy.

>>46897537
Not exactly, since FFTA2 hints that although it may not be the EXACT same Ivalice, an Ivalice still existed in Mewt's book.

Escapism!

>>46897593

A false protagonist is a bait-and-switch with main characters. Not 'good guy is bad guy'. Y'all folks need to learn what protagonist and antagonist mean.

>>46897057
I don't think you know what protagonist and antagonist mean.

>>46897057
Im pretty sure that I played as Marche so "No"

>>46897701
>around whom the events of the narrative's plot revolve and with whom the audience is intended to share the most empathy.

I had empathy for the cripple, and the storyline followed the brother in various cutscenes to show his progress as the villain got closer to achieving his goal with your assistance.

CHRIST PEOPLE IT'S CALLED AN ANTIHERO.

I still can't figure out why he didn't stay in Ivalice and bang pink-hair like a goddamn drum.

>>46897783
False Protagonist
>but sometimes just by changing their role (i.e. making them a lesser character, a character who (for reasons other than death) leaves the story, or revealing them to actually be the antagonist).

>>46897909
BECAUSE THAT'S ESCAPISM

The game should have been
>play as Ritz
>the new kid wants to rip and tear your dream world
>final confrontation
>thwart him just before he was able to fulfill his evil plan
>save the world

But no, in THIS Final Fantasy game, you have to DESTROY the world...

>>46897827

Yeah but the narrative's plot didn't revolve around him, if we're rigidly sticking to that definition. He got asides every now and then. And it's not like this is the first game to make you empathize with the villains. Trust me, Marche is the protagonist. There's no doubt about this.

>>46897909
Because Lizardpeople everywhere.

Because Teenagers can summon fucking firedemons.

Because...

Do I really need to go on?

>>46898020

>because I CAN FUCKING SUMMON FIREDEMONS

Do I need to go further?

OKAY MORONS HERES A LESSON!

The protagonist is the main character the story follows

The antagonist is an obstacle to the protagonist.

Marche is the protagonist but he is not the hero. There is a difference morons. A protagonist is not a good guy. Niko is a protagonist but he sure as fuck ain't a good guy.

>>46897937

Yeah but for Marche to be the antagonist, we would've been given control of a new protagonist. Antagonist is the guy trying to oppose the protagonist. The term doesn't 100% match 'good guy and bad guy'.

For example, in The Collector, the protagonist is the abductor of the girl he keeps, not the girl herself, even though, no doubt, she is the 'good' character.

>>46897978

I disagree with your analysis and prefer my own personal interpretation.

Being in a wheelchair myself gives me some right to have my own fucking opinion.

pro⋅tag⋅o⋅nist  [proh-tag-uh-nist]
1. the leading character, hero, or heroine of a drama or other literary work.

So yes, Marche was the protagonist of FFTA, /thread.

Marche is a fascist and there is no way to dispute that, and we all know how much people love fascist, huh?

>>46898217

Fuck you I'm in five wheelchairs.

>>46898127
Magical things like that don't exist, stop deluding yourself

Escapism is bad

>>46897962
Hmm that's the first time the title "Final Fantasy" held any kind of relevance to the actual plot.

Pretty much.

>>46898217
>Being in a wheelchair lets me ignore proper definitions. Nobody in real life stands up to me because I'm a worthless cripple, so you shouldn't stand up to me, either.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AlternativeCharacterInterpretation?from=Main.AlternateCha
racterInterpretation

>Depending on whether you consider Ivalice to be all just a dream or really real, Marche is either a good person who believes it's wrong to avoid life by living in a fantasy world, or a Well Intentioned Extremist who is quick to return to the "real" world, even if it requires destroying another. At the end Marche is either a hero for helping his friends deal with the their problems, or a villain whose desires to return supersede his friends.

>>46898256

Spoiled little shit, I only have 3.

>>46898356

>implying there can only be one valid interpretation of fiction

>>46898356

I'm pretty sure he was trolling, bro.

>>46898462

Yup, I was ;]

>>46898294

>>46898305
>Marche side by side with other "big" villains

Oh you, /v/.

>>46898288

It did in their world.

HURP A DURR NURF HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

>>46898456

There are very few valid interpretations of literary terms. For example, 'protagonist'. You can play about with who the protagonist is and how you show them, but you can't change what a protagonist is.

>>46898582

Protagonist tries to stay.
The antagonist defeats him.

We mainly watch the antagonist.

Bit like watching scenes from the bad guys doing their thing in movies and then switching back to the good guys.

>>46898512

>>46898696
Not at all. People here apparently are too illiterate to understand what "protagonist" means.

Protagonist =/= Good guy.

>>46898696

Except most of the narrative is in the eyes of Marche, not Mewt. Marche is the protagonist, regardless of whether or not his motivations are just. And because Mewt is trying to stop him so he can rule, Mewt is the antagonist. You're free to interpret who is hero and villain, but the narrative and control of the game are far too clear to change who the protagonist is.

>>46898696
no you fucking retard

>>46898881

So the antagonist/protagonist border is limited to which one has above 50% exposure throughout the storyline?

Seems a bit rigid to me?

>>46898965
You never play as Mewt. Mewt has 1/10 the exposition that Marche has in the game. Shut the fuck up.

The people saying Marche was wrong are the same escapist faggots that cry that Avatar isn't real and they will never meet the blue catgirl.

>>46899124
>never LIVE with blue catwoman
fixed that for ya, escapism IMO is longer lasting then its definition implies. It would be cool to meet blue catgirl but certainly not to stay.

>>46898965

If it really was 50/50, you could say both characters were the antagonist, or even if it was something close to 50/50. But Mewt is a plot character that is shown in small snippets. Even if Marche was removed, goddamn Montblanc probably still gets more appearances than Mewt.

>>46898965
Well, that's the definition of protagonist. The person whose viewpoint we stay in. For almost the entirety of the game, we control Marche and see the story from his POV, so he's the protagonist.

Protagonist=/=Hero. That's why we have two seperate words, because they mean different things, so don't conflate them.

There is no Montblan...

>>46899383
Speaking of Montblanc, what's his deal? He knew full well that if he helped Marche that it would destroy his own world. The world he's known his entire life.
Why would Marche's world be any realer?

>>46899735
I always found it odd that he shows up in FFTA 2.

if your all so dead set on marche staying, just beat all the quest and you'll get a storyline to your liking

think it was the judge arc of something

>>46899735
Montblanc is real. He lived in the real Ivalice, so he'd just go back there.

>>46899735
He went Black Mage as a Moogle, he isn't that bright.

>>46899973
Alternative universe?

>>46899735
Must be something to do with Marche's charisma. Montblanc and the other members of Marche's clan believed in Marche and the fact that there was a new world.
Actually, I think it may be that at first they were just helping Marche find his way home. In the beginning, I think they believed that helping Marche find his way home =/= destroying the world.

>>46899735

Wait, does Marche actually destroy the world or yank everyone back home?

God I fucking hated montblac.Most useless character ever

>>46897057
Marche was the 'bad guy' of the game but you don't fight against him

>>46899928
they essentially retconned the first game

>>46900000

Nice get.

>>46900030
Vaan met him, and helped him hunt the monster Yiazmat who killed his mentor. He lived in the real Ivalice.

>>46900000

HHHHHHHHHHMMMMMMMMMMMMMM THAT GET!

It also seems like everyone in this thread is completely forgetting about FFTA2...Ya know, the one where Mewt is an ADULT who gives a kid detention, and said kid find a book and goes to Ivalice?

My theory:
FFT and FFTA are pre-XII existance, meaning Ivalice was probably just fiction at the time.

FTAII is Post-XII existance, which is why all the mechanics like magic turned to magick, monsters now drop items, and Ivalice is now more real parralel'd.

In other words.

SUBMIT

>>46900059
Oh he rips shit up. And he fights The essence of the book manifested into some hot looking ghost thing That destroys the world, and everyone goes back to real world Ivalice. But now everyone is happy. Ritz loves her white hair, and Donned makes friends and goes outside instead of staying at home and masturbating even though there is absolutely nothing wrong with that anyway

>>46900000
sweet my first get

anyway maybe the ivalice from the journal and the book was just a copy of the real ivalice? that bitch from the first game who was the boss must have been this being that existed between worlds

>Implying escapism isn't a solution

the events in FFTA happen in a created universe.

those beings were sentient but were merely copies of the real ones.

FFTA 2 however happens in the real Ivalice, as the main character has been retconned to be able to go any time period of Ivalice, and was put into the remake of FFT.

the timeline goes as such.

FF12
FFTA 2 (when he is in the past)
FF tactics, by this time all the races are dead, most magic is gone, all the tech from FF12 was lost forever.
vagrant story, even more magic is gone
FFTA
FFTA 2 (the future segements take place here)

so you see, the Ivalice has a clear cut timeline, allthough it was never explained why or how all the races were killed off and all the tech such as airships were destroyed.

it almost definatly had something to do with the 12 zodiac gods, who during FF12 started revolting, and by FF tactics were considered demons.

Escapism is bad.

Yet if everyone escapes together then it's a moot point.

HURRR ESCAPISM!

Protip: "fake" Ivalice could be seen, felt, heard, smelt, and tasted. The interactions with the people were shown to be deep and involved.

On the other hand, in "real" Ivalice we see one street, conveniently PACKED with stairs to make Marche's crippled brother miserable, and just about everyone is unhappy or mean.

Marche is actually a villain who created a hellish alternate reality to punish all those around him. Mewt and the book freed everyone from this place, transporting them to the real world. Marche then spends the rest of the game overthrowing the government and returning his hell-world, fueled by his hatred for everyone and everything (which is masked behind an innocent, cheerful facade).

>>46900444
>>46900407
copiedalternateuniversemind

>>46900417
Not in real life. Don't kid yourself, playing games to escape your shitty life won't help you along the way. You'll probably end up killing yourself when you see how fucked it's gotten when you didn't act.

>>46900662

This.