Who fucking cares.

>fighting games
>HURF I MAESH BUTONS NAO?

>>130749362
Left : Boring
Right : Fun

>>130749429
As a tournament player and member of the FGC, I care.

>>130749464
Fun doesn't make a fighting game good.

>>130749523
Except a GAME is supposed to be fun
Only retards think GAMEZ R SIRIUS GUYZ, MONYZZ N TOUNEYYSS !

>>130749523
>Fun doesn't make a fighting game good.

Well here is the problem.

>>130749523
You fighting game fans are the absolute worst people on /v/.

>>130749581
Agreed

I don't think the Naruto game is trying to be tournament worthy. I think it's just trying to be a fun video game for Naruto fans.

>>130749581
>>130749579
>>130749576
I second all of this.
Fuck yes /v/ is sensible today.

>>130749581
>>130749612

it's just one guy you morons

>>130749362
i don't see a problem here

>>130749362

>Tekken
>A real fighting game

Stay free, kid.

>>130749615
This

Its not going to be great, its just for fans

>>130749576
>>130749579
>>130749581
Consider this. Killer Instinct is a fighter I had lots of fun with as a kid. The thing is, it was a bad fighting game, which I learned years later. Does that stop it from being fun? Of course not. But the game being fun doesn't make it good. It's not tournament viable, and the mechanics aren't solid for vs play.

>>130749523
No one is making you play those games, quit bitching about it because you have a terrible hobby.

The tourneyfag scene for fighting games is so destitute and meager.
Nobody wants to watch that, so stop taking your video games so seriously.

>>130749615
That's fine then, just a shame the company is failing to make an actual good fighting game.

>tekken good

Tekken is all weeaboo bullshit with edgy grimdark fight sequences between SHAMEFUR DISPRAY families then uguu~ kawaii~!! with everything else

Ahhhh.
Tourneycrabs are the same everywhere. You're not better than the SSB tourneyfags you so hate.

>>130749667
2/10

You can leave now.

doesn't matter when both are equally shitty tournament-wise

just stick to 2D fighters and Smash, bro.

>>130749667

>aren't solid for vs play.

Tell me about it.

>Both players learn how to execute combo breakers
>Retarded 3 hit combos everywhere
>A feature of the game was long-ass ridiculous combos

I DON'T EVEN

>>130749708
How can a game from Japan be weeaboo? You scrubs are pathetic.

The fighting genre needs to evolve just like everything else. I'd honestly rather play that Naruto game than another fucking Tekken game.

>>130749752

>The fighting genre needs to evolve just like everything else.

It actually has been evolving. Please don't try to tell me Guilty Gear is the same shit as SF2.

>>130749731
You can go back to your scrub games child, us serious gamers will keep playing Tekken and advancing our skills.

>>130749752
What exactly is evolution? Fighters are fine as they are, what you want is change for the sake of change. Wanting fighters to change what they are, is akin to wanting human beings to have beaks instead of lips. It adds nothing, and instead detracts from what we gained.

>>130749362
so, where does final fantasy fit on this?
the movesets are watered down compared to a traditional fighter, but there's no real health gain, and it's not impossible to break a spammed attack

>>130749752
Tenkaichi games
Smash Brothers

I personally, cannot wait.

Who else is looking forward to it?

>>130749908
dissidia or duodecim, rather

>mentioning Tekken on /v/

oh boy, here we go

>>130749908
The camera, movement style, and environments in Dissidia are more like an action/hack n slash like Ninja Gaiden or DMC than a real fighter, making it not a fighting game. It's a beat em up with pvp.

>>130749803
I imagine you think Final Fantasy has been evolving too right? Repackaging the same system with new mechanics isn't evolution.

>>130749947
I've seen super robot games with shorter subtitles.>>130749947

>>130749870
I think he's talking about how most games evolve.
Example:
Mario was 2D side scroller. Now it's a 3D platformer.
Besides only limiting yourself to two dimensions seems really casual. Think about it this way: what if some retard company created a 1D fighter. You move left and right. No up and down or side to side. Is this the most advanced fighter ever? Of course not.

So much text not even funny.

>>130749930
Neither of those are fighting games.

>>130749362
Fightan game fan, all your friends are in /vg/ now.
Maybe you should leave too.

I see exactly what you're saying OP, some games are just fun because they're competitive. I feel that way about moba's. But that's more of an issue of being good yourself while trying to push your team in the right direction.

I somehow wish I could enjoy games like Starcraft where me alone matters..

>>130749667
>OH NO A GAME IS NOT TOURNY VIABLE!!!!!!!
A douchebag games arent fucking serious bussiness take that fighting stick up your ass and think a lil.

Fighting is the most boring genre you can find right next to puzzle games
It hasn't changed since the 90's, and nearly all games are the same shit

>>130750046

Final Fantasy evolved, too. Or are you going to tell me FFI is the same shit as FF6 and both are the same shit as FFXII? Anyone who spent 5 minutes of gameplay know that's not true.

And Guilty Gear isn't a "repackaged" SF2. Neither is Marvel. Neither is KoF. Neither is Virtua Fighter.

>>130750075
But Tekken is 3 dimensions, have you ever played it? It's a fully 3d fighter. Virtua Fighter, DOA, Soul Calibur V, all are pure 3d fighters, with the camera properly focused on the 2d plane.

>>130749812
>Tekken
>Advanced
Hahahaha good one!

>>130750080

>so much text

OP is a faggot, but if you think that's a lot of text, you should spend less time on /v/. Or maybe more time so you can actually see what a wall of text looks like.

>tekken
>doing anything right

>>130750148
Fighters are the most exciting of any game genre. They're literally speed chess in video game form. Fighters are high octane action that requires high dexterity and brainpower as well as quick reactions mentally and physically.

>>130750075

You seem to imply that depth of a fighting game is based on how many dimensions it is. This is untrue.

>>130749930
>>130750091
Dont you get it a fighing game is a SFII or Tekken clone! You plebians astound me!

>>130750168
>with the camera properly focused on the 2d plane
That's the problem. It needs to grow to the point where it becomes not a 2d plane but a 3d cartesian plane.

I'll never understand why people who play fighting games are so fucking autistic. Did this thread really need to be made? No one gives a fuck, go post this shitty argument in a FGG.

>>130750075
>Mario was 2D side scroller. Now it's a 3D platformer.
>implying that has been a good evolution.
Mario has always been better in 2D. Bad example.

Ah man, OP isn't the real Tekken fag. He didn't mention Tekken's superior limb based combat.

>>130750289

Most traditional fighters aren't either. And FYI, Virtua Fighter predates Tekken.

I see you went with a picture this time instead of a wall of text.

ur still a faget

>>130750194
I see you want me to break out the big guns? Ok, here are videos showing movement in tekken:

Basics:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Z-_trL1pZeo

Advanced:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ZmwTz9FOwxQ

I suggest watching the first video, I doubt your brain can handle seeing advanced movement in Tekken right away. The movement system in this game is incredibly skillful.

>3d fightan

This thread will be just as bad as that thread yesterday about how street fighter is the only true fighter and anime fighters are shit .

>>130750380
>OH MY GOD TEKKKEN IS SO SKILLFUR OM MY GOD MY HIPS ARE MOVING ON THEIR OWN!!!!
God damn you are a fucking Tekken fag. If you had at least use a better fighting game.

>>130749362
I love Naruto, don't care if it is a shitty fighter, fighters are shit tier anyways

no wonder why all real fighting games suck

>>130750320
>no one gives a fuck
>50 posts and counting

>>130750312
What is a 3d cartesian plane? I hope you are not suggesting fighters use cameras and mechanics found in action/hack n slash games? The camera must be locked to the 2d plane for a 3d fighter to work properly and maintain skill. It allows for traditional fighter inputs, and it allows both players equal view of the playing field.

>>130750460
You know, that in every other genre of games people would come up with arguments at this point.
like "but that thing is way inferior to that thing in my game"

>>130750312

Why do you seem to think "3D = EVOLUTION"

It's funny because Tekken 6 actually has items that help certain characters, breaking the balance that they would have without by adding certain moves.

Tekken is the best 3D fighter
Street fighter is the best 2D fighter
Thats how its always been

>>130750460
Did you even watch any of those videos on the movement mechanics? Expand your mind, you may learn something and even give Tekken a chance.

>>130750362
Are you joking? So many Im a studying game desing bullshit! Please tell me they are trolling!

>>130750563
We're sort of living in the third dimension, where anything that's possible in the second dimension can also happen.

See, this is why no one likes guys who are into competitive fighting games like that. Hell, it's also why people get so bent out of shape when you talk about videogames here in general!

No one cares! Stop pointing at games and calling them shit and trying divide people who like the game and call it fun, people who play it competitively and those who don't like it. If the game's fun the game's fun - I'd rather talk about why you think a game's fun and not about why some other game is shit compared to it. You shit on a game someone happens to enjoy, you get your game shit on. It's the Golden Rule.

You'd have better luck making a thread about Tekken and stuff rather than pulling in another game and throwing it under the bus to make your game seem better. You'll just be written off as a troll. Then again, you are probably just that.

Tekken 5, DR and 6 are the most mediocre 3d fighters ever made. That Dragonball game is probably better than all of them.

The only good Tekkens were 3 and Tag. 2 had good characters but that's it, VF was the superior ip at the time.

>>130750504
>All saying how retarded you are.

>>130750628

Putting something in 3D is not going to make something more advanced. And by that dumb logic, games can no longer evolve because we've already hit three dimensions. That's just dumb.

Superior Car Based Combat here.

Limbs are for faggots

>>130750509
One way to get around the equal view of the playing field could be what some games do as characters are able to rotate around the screen. Another idea is split TVs though that's expensive and not usually viable.
I'm just suggesting fighters become fully 3D as it's much more complicated fighting in 3 dimensions than it is in 2 or 1.

Not really I think he has a point. Some genres are basically played because they're competitive. So Naruto would be an abomination.
Now I don't think that about fighting games..

>>130750608

They're all

the

same

fucking

guy

/v/ never gets it though, I mean you really deserve this shithole if you can't stop responding to this faggot.

Shit, the majority of that pic was made in like, a week, this guy is fucking crazy.

>>130750640
I am not saying lesser games like the Naruto games cannot be fun, I am saying that fun does not equal a good fighting game.

>Camera position defines the genre.

>>130750683
>Putting something in 3D is not going to make something more advanced.
A developer could make a game exactly like it is in 2D, except in 3D. Except that entire extra dimension shift opens up near infinite possibilities that would be impossible in a 2D world.

>>130750723

>as it's much more complicated fighting in 3 dimensions than it is in 2

Not really, no. All you did was add another dimension. That's not going to make a game more complex inherently.

>>130750774
So you are saying that a single individual went out of his way to create that many walls of text?

>>130749362

right is fun. Play it with my friends a lot. Not a good game, but it looks good, so the fights seem cool when your high.. good enough for me. Also, we tend to play it like gents (no spamming, jutsus ,knifes and blocks) Only with friends tho, online is a bitch

we play "REAL AZZ FIGHTZ00R GAMEZ"
but the dont appeal as good.

>>130750606
>Tekken is the best 3D fighter
>Not VF

The proper 3D fighter is Tenkaichi 3
Tekken is 2.5 D

>>130750774
Ignore this poster, he's been photoshopping that image all by himself and claiming those were real posts. It's honestly real sad how far down he's gone the ladder mentally. Anyone can make a bunch of fake "posts" and make an image from it, I've done that myself.

>>130750825
The Tekken Troll appeared months ago. He started writing this shit always under a different name, though.

>>130750791
well a 2D side scroll game isnt a side scroll game if the camera is behind the character now isnt it.

>>130750796
http://teamikaria.com/hddb/classic/page7.htm
Pretty good summary as to why fighting in 3 dimensions is much more difficult than in 2

>>130750834
>play it like gents (no spamming, jutsus ,knifes and blocks)
Dont want to sound like an annoying tourney fag but you are the definition of a scrub, sorry.

>>130749362
>Ninja Gaiden
>Devil May Cry
>Bayonetta
>simplified compared to Tekken

get a load of this guy

>>130750852
No, Tekken is true 3d, always has been. No such thing as 2.5d.

>>130750825
Read this:
>>130750857
Some guy has been wasting time making up fake images to try and derail fighting game threads.

>>130750887

Super Paper Mario

>>130750889

You do realize I said that it's not going to make something more complex inherently, right?

That I meant, you know, something being in 3D isn't going to make it more complex.

>>130750931
So its either a single individual obsess with FG or a single individual obsess with trolling FG? Either way wow!

Both are tournament viable, your chart is retarded and you are retarded OP.
The only thing that constitutes a tournament is rules upon which it is set that may or may not limit or increase the potential of the game.

The left picture is a limitized game, the right picture is not limitized,
both have specific ways to play and both have specific rules.

OP is a neckbeard intellectual lacking any objectivity or capability to think on a "don't like what i don't like" stroll.
He should as such be reported an banned for the sake of this board.

Also as by the chart he is showing an incapability to think beyond simple combo buttons and into strategizing upon item use in games and adapting to camera angles.

>>130750825
You must be new here.

>>130750825

Yes. I thought "haven't I seen ashitload of these?" and went out to see how many I could collect.

SO MANY

>>130750857

Oh fighting games guy, I don't know wether to hate or love you.

It's like I'm the Batman, and you're the Joker, but infinitely more pathethic on every level.

Also this board obviously does NOT deserve a better class of troll.

>>130750791
Never said that. I am saying that the camera used in the Naruto games actually LIMITS gameplay, whereas Tekken uses a proper fighting game camera which enhances gameplay.

>>130750904

You don't sound like one. People don't know how to deal with shit in fighting games.

And honestly, if it works, I'm going to abuse it. This applies to every genre.

>>130750995
>I am saying that the camera used in the Naruto games actually LIMITS gameplay

Anything to support your retardation? Any details?
Or are you one of those "i can't cope with something that isn't linear as im used to" guys.

>>130750774
Explain how the current OP is way different from the writing style of the rest..
Even among some of those there's writing conflicts I wouldn't expect if it's the same person.

>>130750990
I'm sorry but do I know you? You really shouldn't lie to people on this board, some are gullible enough to actually believe that sort of thing. I never made any of those posts. Why do you do this? What do you get out of photoshopping fake images of fake postings on a message board?

>>130750948
But just by being 3d it does become inherently more complex than before given the extra degree of freedom. Instead of left right, up down you now have the same 4 movements alongside two extra movements for a total of 6 able to move in x,y, and z.

I really don't understand what your trying to get at.

>>130749523
>Fun doesn't make a fighting game good

Srsly guize? You couldn't tell this was a troll thread by this comment alone?

>>130750849
VF's too hard for the masses and its characters aren't flashy so its scene is small. I love VF but finding tournaments for it was and is near impossible in my area.

Settled for 2D fighters since Tekken hasn't done anything for me since Tag and SC has sucked since 2.

>playing Dial-A-Combo games
>2012

>>130750990

Oh, another surefire way to spot the OP is that he always responds to the frist 2 people that post in his threads without fail, calling them scrubs and shit.

I still think that Smash's gameplay is one of the best 2D fighting systems there is. To bad that the games themselves can't truly be tournament viable.

>>130751054
>Posting's
>Fake
Wat? You really think you're the only one who can write a thread on here?

Did you just arrive today?

>>130751091

>But just by being 3d it does become inherently more complex than before given the extra degree of freedom.

And this is my point, movement is *not* everything in fighters. A game being 3D is not going to automatically make something more advanced.

>>130751054

I don't know, I guess I'm just that a crazy of a person.

Because seriously, anyone who spends his time creating walls of text to troll a forum every day and then dedicate an hour or two to respond to everyone who gets trolled has to have a very sad life.

>>130749362
>Implying brawlers can't be fun
>Implying brawlers can't be competitive
>Implying brawlers don't have a degree of depth

>Inherently, all 2d fighters are imbalanced
>People will always 'tier' champions and is only compounded by flat, linear stages
>Brawlers allow and embrace imbalanced characters because they allow players to use items and their environment to their advantage
>People who mod and only play Final Destination in SSB are defeating the very nature of a brawler

>But who cares anyways--people who actually sit down and actively try to be good are fags
>All those videos--combos, frames, hitboxes
>They will only be good at that one game
>Heaven forbid a new game comes out and they have to learn all over again, less the developers cater to the outspoken and make more of the same
>Not to mention, most players aren't even good as much as they just spam the same fucking 3 combos over and over

>>130751140
If the fanbase is big enough, it is. The people making money at tournaments playing smash and mario kart are more hardcore than the naysayers sitting at home crying.

>>130751041
It's because the guy posting that image made all those up himself, as a funny joke I guess.

>>130751040
Ok details? Consider this. In a proper fighter the camera is locked to the 2d plane. This allows for proper inputs, such a the one used for a fireball in SF for example, or a Dragon Punch. These inputs add to the depth of the game via execution.

Now when a camera is done differently like the Naruto games does it, there's a problem. Those inputs won't work the same, hitting left or right becomes harder when your character is facing the background and not the side. So these games make the inputs simpler. DMC and Ninja Gaiden for instance, will have combos like XXXY, with special manuevers and attacks being things like X+Y/A+B, or back+X, forward+Y, back forward+X, and so forth. This ruins gameplay by dumbing it down to extremely simple inputs, which takes away the execution requirement.

>>130751227

>They will only be good at that one game

That's not true. Experience travels from game to game and a lot of the top players in the FGC are good at more than 1 game.

>>130751102
Well I was more of a Sega guy so my first 3D figther was VF. It is sad that in the west people dont apreciate the complexity and depth VF has. Tekken is a babbys toy compared to VF.

>>130751227

>But who cares anyways--people who actually sit down and actively try to be good are fags

Being good at videogames is bad?

>All those videos--combos, frames, hitboxes
>They will only be good at that one game

Except good fighting game players have a breadth of experience. Fuudo, a current SF4 tournament winner has been playing & winning Virtua Fighter tournaments for 8 years before turning to SF4.

>Heaven forbid a new game comes out and they have to learn all over again, less the developers cater to the outspoken and make more of the same

Except most fighting games have similar enough concepts and elements that learning new games is fun, not tedious.

>Not to mention, most players aren't even good as much as they just spam the same fucking 3 combos over and over

>implying that victory isn't the only reasonable unit of measure for skill at a game

can someone explain to me why having to push 4 buttons to perform one attack is a good idea? wouldn't 1 input = 1 action make more sense?

>>130751140
I think the problem with Brawl was that it was purposely made unbalanced. Melee was unbalanced but it was more of an accident than anything with Brawl they introduced god awfull mechanics and made it floaty so it could be more easier. The brawl engine fits a Kriby game better than a Smash game.

>>130749362
Sure is No True Scotsman Fallacy in here

Item setups can be locked making each fighter unique and allowing you to pre-plan based on the fighter chosen.

This is 2012 and we have a lot of buttons, we don't need the archaic formula of Direction+button = dial-a-combo.

Stages are big and characters have long, mid, and short range abilities meaning you need to learn how to zone properly.

Camera statement is nonsense, it dynamically follows the combatants.

Not all Fighting Games have to be like SF, Tekken, and Blazblue. There are other formulas out there besides a flat line with two people on each side. Mixing up the genre should be encouraged. This sort of elitism is what makes people hate tourneyfaggots.

PLAY AND ENJOY VIDEOGAMES.

>>130751342
I hate to break this to you, but Tekken is a lot deeper than VF. VF is highly overrated. People mention the game to score some kind of hardcore gamer points in the FGC.

Now to help further my point about the camera, watch this video of Ninja Gaiden:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wgqE7_iw2g
Notice how the camera is positioned in regards to Ryu? Now try and picture a fighting game done with this "full 3d" style as some of you put it. Now how would you play such a game with friends or at tournaments? Yes, you could play online(which would be extremely flawed, but I'll get to that), but local play would be impossible. The camera will be focused on Player 1, making it impossible for a second person to even play without being at a terrible disadvantage.

>>130751393

They serve as an execution barrier.

And gameplay design.

>>130751253
> In a proper fighter the camera is locked to the 2d plane.

There is no such thing as proper in the gaming industry, there is only what you are used to and are a fanboy of.
Objectivity out of the window.

>This allows for proper inputs, such a the one used for a fireball in SF for example, or a Dragon Punch.
Same as above

>These inputs add to the depth of the game via execution.
Yes they do, albeit id like more of a depth than simple combo memorizing.
Not enough freedom in this.

>Now when a camera is done differently like the Naruto games does it, there's a problem.
Really...

>Those inputs won't work the same

So a game not being like your fanboy obsessed type of game is a problem...
Are you retarded?

The only thing you are telling me here is that you can't cope with adapting to a different game and dislike anything that goes from your what i personally consider limitized formula of games.
But that's my opinion.

>harder
So harder and challenge is bad?
You are aware what you are implicating yourself as here don't you?

>So these games make the inputs simpler.
They may or may not make the imputs easier or harder according to how much freedom they produce and thus increase on the potential to strategize rather than memorize some retarded combos.
You are speaking very vaguely and focusing on only a part of a bigger picture.

I've said enough to leave a message.

where did the fun go?
why do you insist on taking all the fun things out of everything because you're so obsessed with who's better at a video game?
you're the definition of neckbeard

>>130751471
Why can't fighting game players just play the goddamn games and stop bitching that they're not all exactly identical?

>>130751440
>There are other formulas out there besides a flat line with two people on each side.

And they're all flawed.

>>130751508

>Why can't fighting game players just play the goddamn games

They do?

>I'm going to look at OP's faggotry and extrapolate that to everyone else!

Stop that.

>>130751538
Now that's your opinion.

>>130751471
>Tekken
>deeper than VF
You went full retard bub. You can say anything about VF but saying that it aint as deep as fucking Tekken, come on! VF games are works of art it so balanced and so complex its amazing. Each character is perfectly tune in order to be tourney viable.

>>130751538
>And they're all flawed.

So you fix them and not throw them out the window like some child.
And they can't ALL be flawed, generalization is the first and biggest mistake.

>>130751481
Execution barriers don't really add depth to the game. They just create an artificial skill wall to frustrate new players. I'm sure that's great if you hate new people coming in on your turf with less than 100 hours of repetitive memorization training but on the flipside, this prevents people from liking fighters.

Not that they should be casualized, I just think that a lower execution barrier would be nice sometimes. Some of us want to get to the actual strategizing and planning stages and get the fuck out of this boring repetitive execution stage.

>>130751538
This is the kind of shit I'm talking about.

>>130751552
I'd have apologized if I hadn't read this thread and seen so many assholes doing exactly that.

>>130751640

>artificial skill level

What.

>frustrating new players

Here's an idea: Don't get frustrated when trying out new games and take the time to learn the mechanics.

>>130751502
Those inputs are a standard in fighters, they add execution which is what sets fighters apart from RTS or Moba games. In an RTS/Moba it's a pure brain game, and doing attacks is very simplified. Fighters are about mindgames AND physical dexterity. You can't just remove that aspect of the gameplay. The possibility someone can fuck up a move input or drop a combo adds excitement to the gameplay. It's about who can focus mentally on the task at hand while not screwing up the inputs.

Inputs are also this way to balance powerful moves. For instance, in SF Zangief has a hold that does massive damage. To balance this move, it has a harder input. This way you cannot continuously do this move with ease, you'd have to train hard and become VERY skilled to do such a move on command. This balances the move out, so that people who are just starting can't simply do it as they please and potentially score a luck based win.

Who says a game like Naruto there has to have simplified inputs?
And who says that adding the items or a widened area and use of surroundings is a bad thing? Unless you are brain damaged you should like the way you actually need to think through the games instead of pushing sequences like a retard all the time in the left example.

Anyone who disagrees with my chart is a scrub who knows jack shit about real shooting games.

>>130751690

>I'd have apologized if I hadn't read this thread and seen so many assholes doing exactly that.

So instead of extrapolating one person's faggotry to everyone, you're going to extrapolate a few people's faggotry to everyone? You're a class act, you know that?

>>130751471

Have you ever played DBZ:BT3? No, you haven't because there's splitscreen in it you retard

>Tekken
>deeper than VF

>List of Tekken Fundamentals
>Frame Advantage, high-low mixup, JUGGLES JUGGLES JUGGLES JUGGLES

>List of VF Fundamentals
>FUCKING
>EVERYTHING

>>130751707
We're not saying Tekken and Street Fighter have to do this. We're saying stop berating fighting games that do lower the execution wall. It's actually better for new players if you let them become interested in the strategy element first. There should really be some entry-level fighter games.

>>130751369
Not to toot my own horn but my college has a Guilty Gear cabinet in our student union. For one quarter, I used to play it between classes, picking characters I merely thought ere interesting.
Now, of course, you're going to have a whole foray of players at our school and I would get challenged quite often. Granted, the 1st player stick was broken, I would still win half my matches from pure and un-fetid button mashing. I'm not saying I'm any good, but it goes to show how poor most enthusiast players are and can't adapt to given situations.
I also can't enjoy a game where players can drain half your life in a single combo--it means with a little practice on their part, I essentially can't do anything as I watch my character get jungled to oblivion. That's not skill--that's a broken system. And because most fighters are like that, fighters are inherently broken by default.

OP is mad cause he gets his shit wrecked in naruto fighting games wow holy shit

how bad can you even be, that shit is like for babys

>>130751771
>Lots of assholes being assholes
"Hey you know these assholes are assholes"
>NOT EVERYONE IS!!!

Okay whatever. I'm just going to eat my sandwich.

The other issue with the camera I shall address:

With a proper sideview camera, both players can accurately judge the range and distance of their attacks and the distances between opponents. With a camera behind the players, this becomes a huge issue. How many people have played Ninja Gaiden, trying to launch an attack at an enemy, and failing? The camera makes movement and attacking imprecise to judge for players. You'd end up with both players trying to determine exactly the range someone is in, and missing due to misjudging it. The sideview camera eliminates this problem.

>>130751807

>hat's not skill--that's a broken system.

It's a broken system, but you're wrong. That is skill. That's them being rewarded for practicing. And that's (that being rewarded for practicing) not a bad thing.

>>130751754
Ok, try doing a qcf input with a camera like that, and your character facing forward. Even the slightest deviation to either side of the character model can determine if the input works or not. That means you can be facing someone in battle, doing a qcf and getting nothing or a diff move entirely, because you didn't realize your character was ever so slightly facing to the left instead of the right, making the input invalid. It's the reason games ike NG and DMC avoid those kinds of inputs, they're to imprecise with that kind of camera.

>>130749362
I've been playing fighters heavily for years and think you're full of shit. Comparing a fighter to DMC is retarded for one because DMC is fuckloads more challenging, if you're button mashing you'll survive on devil hunter at best. Button mash in a fighter like my nephew does and you'll still pull off the occasional special.
400+ wins 30 losses in Tekken 5, don't keep track of SF and MvC is ass.

>>130750887
>fighter
>implies fighting
>2D side scroller
>implies 2D side scrolling

Is the genre called Sideview Fight?

>>130751864
Why do you keep talking about skill and then criticize a game because is TAKES MORE skill and is harder to adapt to as well as requiring thinking?
Are you retarded?

>>130752004

In this thread, OP comes for justification. Leaves with tears.

>>130751807
>I also can't enjoy a game where players can drain half your life in a single combo

Those games are high skill, high risk, high punishment games. Learn to block. No different from a real fight, if you don't block, you're gonna get fucked up bad.

Tekken is boring, Naruto fighting games are exciting to watch.

You have to keep the audience in mind. If you want to be an eSport, you must also entertain the crowd.

These threads always devolve into different players calling each others' games shit or "not fighers".

It's almost as bad as the moba community.

>>130751807

>Not to toot my own horn but my college has a Guilty Gear cabinet in our student union. For one quarter, I used to play it between classes, picking characters I merely thought ere interesting.
Now, of course, you're going to have a whole foray of players at our school and I would get challenged quite often.

alright

>Granted, the 1st player stick was broken, I would still win half my matches from pure and un-fetid button mashing. I'm not saying I'm any good, but it goes to show how poor most enthusiast players are and can't adapt to given situations.

That's probably because you were playing against bad people, because it's a goddamn college campus. Colleges & Universities have nothing but casuals, casuals everywhere.

>I also can't enjoy a game where players can drain half your life in a single combo--it means with a little practice on their part, I essentially can't do anything as I watch my character get jungled to oblivion. That's not skill--that's a broken system. And because most fighters are like that, fighters are inherently broken by default.

Which game are you talking about? Because I do in fact agree with you that combo for half health can be silly. But, depending on specific game and context, it can be quite fair. For instance, in SF4, some characters are able to combo their supers into their ultra, or vice versa. This requires them to not only have gotten a full bar, and taken half damage, but also to get into a situation where they can actually set up the combo. If their opponent is competent, they will be pressuring them in order to keep the advantage, and not eat a combo of fuck you.

Also, fighting games are rarely about fuckhuge combos. They're about the mixups & mindgames if you get to high level play, which are quite delicous.

>>130751982
>Ok, try doing a qcf input with a camera like that, and your character facing forward. Even the slightest deviation to either side of the character model can determine if the input works or not. That means you can be facing someone in battle, doing a qcf and getting nothing or a diff move entirely, because you didn't realize your character was ever so slightly facing to the left instead of the right, making the input invalid. It's the reason games ike NG and DMC avoid those kinds of inputs, they're to imprecise with that kind of camera.

So one fixes the problem and no it doesn't have to be as exact as everything you said on the problematic area.
Your "2D" Fighting games were shit as well in the beginning untill they evolved,
so shall games like Naruto evolve.
The only thing in their path the bitching of kids who can't cope that the Fighting genre doesn't limit itself to one formula.

>>130752000
I bet to differ, combos in fighters are harder than any combos in DMC games. Also the inputs for Dante's attacks are way too simple. Hitting forward and X to do a special sword strike isn't as execution demanding as doing an srk motion.

>>130751982

Except not every game uses the same input method, retard.

>>130751864
It sounds like a problem in theory, and yet I don't know anyone who has trouble properly aiming in UNS. Not even children.

Humans are a lot better at gauging distance over time than you give us credit for

using stupid inputs to make the game harder is retarded. if you want to make the game more challenging add shit that taxes people's ability to multitask or correctly assess the situation. if all you care about is pushing buttons with the right timing you might as well learn to play the piano.

>>130751723
>. Fighters are about mindgames AND physical dexterity.
SOME fighters are. Some.

Some of us want fighters that are less dexterous. We'd really like to get into the brain part of it.

>>130752094
The problem is they did "fix it", by making the inputs simple. same things games like Ninja Gaiden does. Look at Izuna Drop, that move requires a 360 motion or close to it in the DOA games, yet in Ninja Gaiden Ryu can do it with a much simpler input. In a hack n slash this is fine, but if the game allowed for pvp, all hell would break loose. You'd get new players just starting out getting off lucky Izuna Drops and killing experienced players via luck.

>>130751502
You're a fucking retard. Why do so many people who don't play fighting games bring this up?

Look, go play a game of basketball, but instead of following these "fanboy rules" make up your own as you go: Carry the ball, kick other people while you play, make the rim only 5ft tall, etc.

>But that's not how you play basketball

LOL U MAD TOURNEY BASKETBALL FAGGOT xD IM JUST HAVING FUN LOL

>>130752194

>using stupid inputs to make the game harder is retarded.

Yo chief, read this >>130751723

And fighting games have always been, and always will be, part mental, part physical.

>>130752150
Fighters pretty much have to adhere to a standard for inputs, or else they'll become casualized and lose the execution requirement.

>>130751884
Granted, I don't keep up to date with the 'fighter-scene' but I mean.......

I watch competitive Tekken videos, and for the first minute its all dashing back and forth, trying to land the first hit because otherwise they'll be juggled to hell and back. Granted, that's an lolexaggeration, but 2-d fighters are no different. You know how I won a lot of my matches at my school? Spamming the buttons in an ABC order.

Nah, fighers are for the kiddies. Actually being 'good' (a loaded term that includes people who simply memorize combos) at a fighter is like being a professional athlete playing a pick-up game, the only difference it that they're actually paid big money.
>implying fighter tournaments is a steady source of income
>impyling we're in Asia/Korea

>>130752234
That's a bad comparison. It's more like someone watching people play basketball, trying it themselves, not liking the skill curve, and moving on to an easier sport.

I myself am very good at fighting but I can't shoot hoops.

>>130752228
>The problem is they did "fix it"
That isn't a final fix, that is a theory being put as a foundation and not all developers follow the same path.

You are theorizing too much and focusing on things like attributing one so specific aspect as if encompasses all games.
That is flawed thinking and justifying my friend.
As said above, you also give too little credit to human capabilities to gauge and adapt,
that may be due to your own imperfections.

In any case, the formula will evolve, it isn't fixed and never will be until a really accepted foundation for it is met and agreed upon.

You should stop trying so hard to impose your fanboyism upon a whole variable genre and generalizing it as though that is also what awaits the future.

>>130752202
Then fighters are not for you, I suggest trying DOTA, pure mental game. A genre shouldn't have to change because you dislike an aspect of it.

>>130752159
It can happen though. Imagine how many people playing COD suck at melee because they have trouble judging distances and ranges due to the camera? People playing TF2 who can't even hit anyone with the axe when using Pyro, or hitting anyone with the knife as Spy, due to the camera?

>>130752248
>and always will be

Imagine if RTS were like this. And then some other RTS came out that was all mental and little physical. If they had the fighting game fanbase they would all get bitched to oblivion

Stop being an asshat and let people enjoy their entry level fighters. Stick to your fighters and enjoy them.

>>130752318

>but 2-d fighters are no different.

You really have no idea what you're talking about. Go watch some Super Turbo Matches and try again.

OH GOD T­HE NOSTALGIA

>>130752390

>Stop being an asshat and let people enjoy their entry level fighters. Stick to your fighters and enjoy them.

What does this have to do with my post. When did I say "stop enjoying entry level fighters". And did you even read the post I linked to that explained (very well I might add) the reason for having move inputs that aren't "press one button"?

>>130752370
Except I listed the reasons why you can't use traditional fighter inputs with that kind of camera, due to the nature of the controls themselves. Outside of us controlling games with psychic powers, it isn't going to work.

>>130752383
Wrong. Fighters ARE for me. Just not the kinds you like. I can play SSBMelee and N:UNS just fine thank you and I enjoy them. Why do you people want to dictate so hard and rigidly what your genre consists of?

Also no, I hate DOTA clones. They're terrible as is their community. Because they're just as elitist as fighting game communities.

>>130752234
You are comparing a physical game which depends on real life motorics and limitations as well as physical tiredness
to a digital game genre which doesn't limitize and has variable potential on many levels over how it can be played out, thought out

Pic related.
Such bad philosophizing is what is ruining this world.

>>130752390
the whole argument is retarded because non-casual rts games have even higher hand skill requirements than fighting games.

>>130752464

Not that I'm on tekkentroll's side, but there IS a physical aspect to video games. Just because you aren't running doesn't mean your hands won't get tired or start to hurt.

>>130752318

>Nah, fighers are for the kiddies. Actually being 'good' (a loaded term that includes people who simply memorize combos)

I play T.Hawk in SF4, and compete locally with a pretty damn good scene.

Any idiot can tell you T.Hawk doesn't do combos. He knocks the opponent down, and fucks their shit up with crazy set-ups and wake-up guessing games. You know, mind games.

The guys who do combo videos and make fuckhuge combos aren't the guys who come into Top 8, because combo execution skill =/= fundamentals.

Execution can help you monopolise on your correct reads better, yes, but you won't get anywhere if you have no idea how to play the game.

>>130752458
But those games are not real fighting games. I mean if I like Chess and want to play it, but find it too hard, I can't go make a chess game with dumbed down rules then play that. It isn't chess anymore.

>>130752505

Even if what you say is true, what does that have to do with anything being discussed?

>>130752457
>Except I listed the reasons why you can't use traditional fighter inputs with that kind of camer
You listed specific theories that don't follow every game in the genre.
How many times do i have to repeat that you are wrong exactly because you are generalizing and exactly because you are limitizing potential because you don't like something or can't cope with it?

At least use a trip so I can filter your bullshit OP.

Cant wait for the new Naruto game. I'm having fun and there's nothing you can do about it.

>>130752383
FPS do not have the same camera physics as third person games. It's much more difficult to judge the space between an object of unknown size (your melee) and an object far away than in a "brawler" like fighter where you can easily see the size of your character relative to the screen. Mortal Kombat Armageddon did this just fine.

>>130752513
>Just because you aren't running doesn't mean your hands won't get tired or start to hurt.

Thanks for ignoring most of the post and focusing on tiredness.
Because tiredness from holding a controller and using it has nothing to do with tiredness due to physical variance, muscle overuse, and other limitations that vary among humans.

You have in essence proven that you aren't capable to cope or adapt with the Naruto style gameplay,
that is enough for me.

>>130752630
>It's much more difficult to judge the space between an object of unknown size (your melee)

If you're a scrub maybe.

>>130752651

>Because tiredness from holding a controller and using it has nothing to do with tiredness due to physical variance, muscle overuse, and other limitations that vary among humans.

Are you serious?

>>130752398
And here's the coupe de grace--all 2d fighters have to be modeled around a joystick an a novel amount of buttons.

Meaning 90% of the input for 90% of the games is the same.
>Quarter-circle back
>Quarter-circle forward
>Hold-back, forward
And then it comes to random attacks attacks to buttons and situations
>Implying all, ALL 2d fighters aren't a memorizing game and a novel amount of twitch skill

Ya, no, I have no idea what I'm talking about. All I'll say is that I'll always find brawlers more fun than any 2-d fighter.

>>130752539
the point is that in rts games if you push 300 buttons a minute it's because you want to do 300 different things. in fighting games you have to push 6 buttons with precise timing just to do one attack because retards think grinding out training mode makes them skilled.

>>130752630
Mortal Kombat Armageddon used traditional camera, unless you meant Shaolin Monks.

>>130752534
>But those Scotsmen are not true Scotsmen

>>130752630
>It's much more difficult to judge the space between an object of unknown size (your melee) and an object far away than in a "brawler" like fighter where

So because you can't jump 1.5m hight no one in this world can.
That is how retarded you sound.

>>130752705

>in fighting games you have to push 6 buttons with precise timing just to do one attack

Why do fighting game threads bring out faggots like the OP and faggots like this who don't even play the genre they're shitting on?

>>130752694
Those inputs are staples of the genre and add execution requirements that are needed for depth. Saying a fighter shouldn't use those inputs is like saying an RTS shouldn't use a mouse or a keyboard.

>>130752228
>It's bad that someone could pick up and play

>>130752680
Of course, rules in Basketball also exist in order to avoid players overusing their expected physical limitations and capabilities,
time, fouls, everything sums to this aspect and everything gives a small dose of pause in order to increase game time and thus audience entertainment without killing the players.

So far, it seems like you can't use your brain.

>>130752792
>Comparing elements of the game to the method of input

You really are fucking retarded.

>>130752673
>>130752757
Both of these "rebuttals" actually bolster my original point. That it's EASY to judge distance over time.

>>130752757
It's true though, when playing Ninja Gaiden I had a lot of trouble judging distances and would miss attacks. Were a fighter made like that, it would be disastrous, you'd have people missing attacks all the time.

>>130752796

His point was actually "it's bad that a powerful move would be come abuseable like that"

>>130752856
>you'd have newbie and untrained people missing attacks all the time
Fixed that for you.

>>130752840

Um, why is he retarded exactly? He's right.

>>130752464
Ok, then apply the same argument to chess.

Either way there are rules in place for a reason.

If you really want something where there is literally no consistent way to win or viable strategy then go roll dice or play rock paper scissors.

>>130752858
Exactly. In our ninja gaiden fighter example, we'd not want Izuna Drop to become abuseable like that. It should be a move that requires enough practice to justify it being so strong.

>>130752856
Weird how people don't tend to miss in Ultimate Ninja Storm then.

>>130752821

did you really just say that fouls are there to "give the players a break"

fouls are viol--do you even watch sports. answer me before I continue.

>>130752792
Not to argue but a keyboard and mouse have a whole UI and screen to work with

With fighters, you're limited to 360 degrees and 5-6 buttons

With an rts, with the exception of keybinds, you can use any old keyboard and setup. With fighters, its embarrassing seeing how many people bring their own controllers above simply not having to play with a broken one--that they need there 'special' controller.

>>130752856
How do you people do this? This camera is what makes every third person game actually work. Devil May Cry and UNS are just as easy to land hits with.

>>130752916
I'm sure it happens a ton. Youtube videos can be editted, and people may be reluctant to upload videos of so many missed attacks.

>>130752907
>viable strategy
That's funny, because Naruto is more chess than Tekken considering the amount of varying gameplay it spews out that doesn't limit itself to combos and button sequences.

>no don't change those things away being good at fighting games is the only thing i have :(

>>130752779
63214p

I count 6 inputs for one attack

>>130752904
No he's not.

A proper example would be QCF = build time in an RTS

If you could just pop out a unit instantly whenever you wanted to the game would lose a lot of depth.

This is why the 3ds version of ssf4 is broken.

>>130752981

>doesn't limit itself to combos and button sequences.

>doesn't limit itself to button sequences

WHAT THE FUCK DOES THIS EVEN MEAN

>>130752960
Fouls are violations set in place for reasons of time extension and recuperating a player as well as avoiding physical rivalry.
it is all summed up, there is no simple ONE reason.
That is simplemindedness you are basing yourself on.

The general topic is WHY is it a rule violations and not whether is IS a rule violation you imbecile.

>>130752975
If DMC were a fighter, landing hits would get a lot more difficult during a stressful fight. Hell look at Bayonetta, Jeanne's final fight is immensely hard, think of how many people miss attacks during such a stress filled fast paced fight.

>>130752904
Sup Tekkentroll? No use pretending not to be yourself, it will you get you nowhere. You're wrong because obviously a control scheme is a staple, it is required to play the game. Certain mechanics on the other hand are not. An RTS could be released that doesn't include base or structure building. Sure it wouldn't be like other RTS games because it doesn't include that mechanic but it sure as hell doesn't make the game not an RTS.

At the end of the day if two or more people are fighting it's a fucking fighting game. Deal with it nerd.

>>130752972

People bring their own controllers/sticks to fighters because 1) those are the ones they practice and play on 2) there are differences between controllers and sticks. Not all of them are built alike.

>>130752978
I still don't see how a problem of player error is a problem of "luck" as was stated much earlier. There's really no problem with this camera for anyone who's actually played the game.

I understand looking at something and going "ugh fuck that bullshit based on <valid observation>" but observation isn't always in line with experimentation. And what you find when you actually play is that the game is pretty damn fluid. It doesn't "feel" like you're running around aimlessly and spamming bullshit.

>>130753089

I'm not a tekken troll and that wasn't the point either one of us was trying to make. Input methods DO matter. A fighting game would not be the same when played with kinect and you know it.

>>130753042
That means that extending gameplay to also moving in a 3D environments and using items requires actual strategizing and missing targets is an example of bad skill you work to fix.

>>130753087
Think of how many people miss attacks in Street Fighter due to, you know, DODGING.

>>130753089
If a "fighter" has no traditional inputs, it just isn't a fighter, sorry.

>>130752981
That might be the dumbest thing I've ever read on 4chan.

There is extremely limited movement in Chess, that's the whole fucking point.

>>130749362

Anyone who uses the term scrub unironically fails at life pretty hard.

>>130753026

That's not 6 "buttons"

It's also pretty much just one smooth motion.

Left: The same game we've been playing for 25 years with a new hat on
Right: Fun

SUPERIOR LIMB BASED COMBAT

>>130753039
no it's like having to push a hotkey 3 times to build one unit

>>130753087
So train yourself to be calm. Hell, you have to be that way in higher skill Fighters anyway.

Maybe that's the hidden skill of brawling fighters.


--------------

This opposition to anything that isn't the same cut and paste formula over and over is just childish.

>>130753147
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wgqE7_iw2g

Those kinds of environments are inconducive to fighters. I want to fight, not run on walls chasing my opponent. Also items are a bad idea and add luck to the game, imagine beating someone badly and they pop a healing item?

>>130753252

Your assumption that everything that's considered a traditional fighter is just a cut and paste job is stupid. OP is an idiot, but so are you for thinking this.

>>130753146
And that has nothing to do with my post assclown. He was comparing input methods to a game mechanic and I said that they're entirely different things. Learn to read.

>>130753181
I'd rather fail at life than fail at fighting games, scrub.

>>130753268

Adding items = luck automatically?

I don't understand.

Superior Railgun Based Combat
>you don't need to buy a $200 controller to be competitive
>you don't need to memorize a gazillion combos
>you don't have worry about character imbalances

>>130753204
The basis of an RTS is strategy, not button input.

However, games like Starcraft (at least the old game) reinforced economy competition over strategy--who has more units.

>Which is why I don't play RTS's

>>130753329

Items do actually give an edge. There's a reason Smashfags turn them off.

>>130753324
If you fail at life then you have no choice but to fail in every endeavour you will ever take part in.

I fucking hate fightan players god damn.

Smash Bros is fucking 15x better than all your stupid LOL TURNEY crap.

>>130753430

But smash bros. IS a tourney game.

>>130753329
>We're fighting
>I am beating you
>you pop a health item and heal just enough to survive
>you then beat me

See why that's bad? I should have won, yet your item saved your ass.

>>130753385

That has nothing to do with luck though.

Smashfags turn off items due to the nature of them RANDOMLY spawning across the stage.

Items in a fighter can easily be done. Either make it so you choose a certain item or two before the match or make them in fixed position on the stage. There is no luck involved.

>>130753268
Items are set in stone when you lock them off. They become special moves that are limited. That's the exact opposite of luck. It creates perfect knowledge which means you can quantify it into a Payoff Matrix and use predictive qualities.

Opponent is low on HP and has a heal left? Likely they will try to escape and use it. So use your chase/long range. This is like saying Pokemon has luck ONLY due to the fact that hold items exist.

Stop talking about luck, it doesn't exist. Luck is a bullshit made up word. It's called probability. When something is truly randomized then there is a probability that thing will happen. And knowing the Law of Averages will make you able to maximize your probability on average.

But this has nothing to do with UNS items since they are set and all effects are known to all players.

tekken tag 2 will bring back tekken after the sixth pos installment
MARK MY WORDS

>>130753385
Exactly though
Smash Bros have imbalance characters
So they introduce varied environments to compensate
Brawler

>>130753268
>Also items are a bad idea and add luck to the game, imagine beating someone badly and they pop a healing item

In N:UNS everyone is given the same pool of items to use. Therefore there isn't any luck involved. If anything this actually adds further depth to the game as you have to factor in the items.

>>130753159
Fighting - Verb:
Take part in a violent struggle involving the exchange of physical blows or the use of weapons.

Game - Noun:
A form of play or sport, esp. a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.

>>130753464

>That has nothing to do with luck though.
>item spawns closer to player 2 than it does player 1

The item spawns in smash are random, and that in itself is luck-based.

>>130753464
> make it so you choose a certain item or two before the match
SFxTekken is doing this with gems, the game is shit ironically enough

>make them in fixed position on the stage
You mean like Quake, where people spend the entire matches hopping around an area to make sure they always get the item first?

>>130753268
>Those kinds of environments are inconducive to fighters

And i fi ask why, you are going to generalize with one example out of a million possibilities as if it the only existing one.
Here is where you are retarded.

>I want to fight, not run on walls chasing my opponent
So get a game that doesn't run on walls chasing opponents.

>Also items are a bad idea and add luck to the game
That depends on the way they are implemented,
you say luck yet in chess luck is figuring out whether you correctly guessed what strategy your opponent is using or is going to use or the way his attitude is or if he is bluffing by playing aggressive or deffensive in order to lure you or not.

Luck is a function that is existent in everything in this world and trying to attribute it as if it a optional trait is idiocy in its prime.

Hell, even comparing fighters where you have 2 pawns fighting to a chess game which deals with an army is idiotic.

>imagine beating someone badly and they pop a healing item?
So you strategize and don't give them time to pop a healing item.
This is where correct game development comes in hand.

So in the end we come to the conclusion that you are indeed a fanboy of a formula and don't have any good arguments apart from specifying what does not have to be and generalizing.
You also can't think based on your whole post and don't have the capability or will to create a way to fix something,
you rather bash which is WHY you are seen as a fanboy at most and all your arguments already fallatic are invalid.

>>130749523
> fun doesn't make a game good

>>130753463
Actually you just sound like an entitled baby. Also you've never played the game. It's obvious from you thinking HP restores do barely anything. They only give them to underpowered characters.

>>130753565

Then that is a level issue not mechanic issue.

>>130753565
Did you even read that entire post? You really an illiterate fucking retard.

>>130753463
Yeah, it's only fair when both players have access to items.

>>130753507
>Smash Bros have imbalance characters
Name a well played fighting game that doesn't

>>130753463
Boy I bet you sure hate Morning Sun, Recover, Roost, Leftovers, Aqua Ring, Blissey, Ingrain...I could go on all day.

>>130753460

it can be a party game or a tourney game depending on the settings and how its played

god it's great

>>130753648
This is MY problem with fighting games and their proponents. The characters are all different with different combos, hitboxes, and specials. There's no way it's ever always perfectly skill based and balanced. At least in Quake III everyone is the same at all times until someone with a higher skill level makes the other eat dirt. Also they don't just go three or five kills, they do several dozen kills to make sure law of averages plays out.

>>130753678

So can every other game. No one is forcing you and your drunk bros to hold mini SF tournies everytime you're drunk.

>>130749362
My summation of your third point on the left is that DoA is shit.

HEY GUYS, ITEMS ARE LUCK,
IT ISN'T FAIR THAT I BEAT A GUY TO A PULP AND HE TAKES A POTION,
I WAS TOO STUPID TO PREVENT IT
or
I DON'T HAVE HEALING ITEMS BECAUSE IM TOO STUPID TO CONSERVE THEM AND STRATEGIZE ON THEIR USE
or
ITEMS ARE UNLIMITED, THEY MUST BE, NO GAME HAS THEM LIMITED
etc.

You are retarded, face it, accept it.

>>130753598
Because fighters are about fighting in a space that forces you to fight. Not chasing people down, climbing shit or any of that nonsense. Fighting games are like a tournament match at the Olympics, it's two guys fighting one another in a setting that forces both to engage one another. You can't run around climbing up a scaffolding to get away and lure someone to you. This is a fighter, not a jackie chan movie.

test

But Tekken 6 goes behind the camera and adds Items and clothing effects

>>130753731

If you have a problem with one character's advantages over another, you can pick that character or deal with your character's shortcomings. Sorry to sound like a dick, but that's how it is, and it applies to ANY game that allows you to select characters. Different characters/teams/whatever are there to give the game variety. And there is no fighting game in this day and age that doesn't allow mirror matches.

>>130753809

>IT ISN'T FAIR THAT I BEAT A GUY TO A PULP AND HE TAKES A POTION,

If an item spawns next to him, there isn't anything you can do about it. Stop being retarded.

I want one of these troll/tourneyfag comparisons comparing mario party with one of those tourneyfag fightan games.

>>130749523
>Fun doesn't make a game good.

That's all I see boy. When this happens, it's perfectly fine to give it up out right.
The minutes you're NOT playing for fun is when it's not healthy.

>>130753885

I see you actually are retarded. Good job.

>>130753827
>implying jackie chan simulator wouldn't be awesome

>SF
>tekken
>party game
>anything but elitest crap

and I've never had a drop of alcohol in my life fyi

>>130753809
Look buddy, items are for RPGS, not fighters.

Fighting game: x vs x where both characters could potentially beat the other, no underpowered antagonists

Beat em up: x v x number of underpowered antagonists along with an easy as shit boss

All the shit mentioned on that image don't even matter.

>>130753837
Fighitngfags just raped themselves with their own item logic
That in itself is luck based
Choosing the right/wrong character meaning skill isn't properly shown

>>130753943
Then explain Tekken 6

>>130753904

Explain how I'm wrong.

>Knock an opponent far across the screen in smash
>a heart container spawns just as he lands
>he heals back all his health before I can reach him

I'm not against using items in smash, but you're stupid if you think that's preventable.

Have you guys ever played toribash?

so which is worse /v/?

A. A person that plays nothing but FPS

B. A person that plays nothing but Fighters

>>130751097
Why would it be? The fighting game community behaves exactly like this, sometimes even worse.

>>130753954

That's not luck, dude. Knowing matchups and character strengths/weaknesses is not luck.

>>130753827
I'm actually a martial artist who has been to several tournaments and I have to say your reasoning here is pretty flawed. Most of the Fighting games Fighter players actually mean are things that are limited to two dimension of movement. In the real world, we move all over the place within our arena. And even if you strictly meant 3D movement fighters, there's really no reason why all 3D fighters must be exactly alike. Naruto, for example, doesn't have hardly any chasing down. Since each character has a long range ability and a dash that closes gaps, there's no chasing. Range is usually a split second endeavor that buys you time to think or lets you set up. It's not meant to be you running away dicking off your short range opponent--since everyone can counter this.

Honestly, I think no one here has even played the game.

>>130753885
So basically EVERY GAME has items spawning next to characters.
You are retarded.

>>130753943

Is this the fanboy speaking?
Who are you to decide that?

>>130753983

Because everyone in the thread has been advocating the use of items in such a way that does not promote them randomly spawning on the map. That's why.

Either you choose from a pool of items at the beginning of the match. Or the items spawn in fixed locations both the same distance form the players at a start of a match.

No luck involved.

>>130749362
Didn't read most of the thread.
I play Gundam Extreme VS competitively with a pretty good local scene (dem asians in Vancouver). It matches the description of "3D brawler" but is tourney-viable since it does not have anything nonsensical to throw off balance, plus it adds the element of teamplay since it's all 2v2.
And it is definitely not shit.

>>130753908
It wouldn't, people play fighters for a specific kind of experience, no one wants to play some jackie chan jet li kung fu fighter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVfuLdHRYnI&feature=related

See that? That's bad.

>>130753997
B.they're asshats that try to control everyone else. at least FPS players tend to have variety.

>>130754020

>So basically EVERY GAME has items spawning next to characters.

I was referring to smash, you dumb fuck.

>>130753731
>>130753731
>If that's really that big of an issue for you you can just pick the same character
>Most matchups in a good fighting game are balanced or just slightly off, that's how they're made
>Unless you've played for years you're not going to notice the slight imbalance, and you wouldn't win if your character was slightly better against a more skilled player's character
>Implying people can't use different guns in FPS
>Implying there are no rounds in fighting games

Such blind hate for the genre I fucking hate you autists

I'm going to sleep

>>130754030

I'm not talking about items and their inherent properties, I'm TALKING ABOUT ITEMS AND HOW THEY FUNCTION IN SMASH.

>>130754110

Well you are very silly then because no one has been supporting that type of system in this thread.

Don't you feel silly?

>>130753827
>Because fighters are about fighting in a space that forces you to fight.
One specific form of Fighters is, not the general genre, you idiot.

>Not chasing people down, climbing shit or any of that nonsense.
So you are saying that all games are like this,
apparently you are discussing something you haven't even played.
You really are retarded.

>Fighting games are like a tournament match at the Olympics, it's two guys fighting one another in a setting that forces both to engage one another.
Real world isn't 2D.

>You can't run around climbing up a scaffolding to get away and lure someone to you.
Pic related,
go watch some Mixed Martial arts tournaments you underage cancer

>This is a fighter, not a jackie chan movie.
A fighter is a term of a genre of varying styles and formula,
you don't decide what is a fighter and what isn't,
you are underage in your mind.

Im tired now and i have to eat, bye bye.

>>130754139

I wasn't talking about anyone supporting them, I was talking about how items could be (and example of how they were) luck based.

Now don't you feel like a retard?

>>130749362

>the one on the right is genuinely fun, interactive, and allows for a lot of "OH SHIT" moments - every thing a video game should be
>the one on the right is old, stagnant, played out, and taken way too seriously - every thing a video game shouldn't be

Anyone who disagrees with this is a scrub who knows jack shit about real VIDEO GAMES

>people still getting their Jimmies rustled by these threads

>>130754182

And I was talking about how items could not be luck based.

Now don't you feel like a retard?

>>130754051
OH SO YOU WERE REFFERING TO SMASH
RIIIIIIIGHT

Why do i give a fuck about Smash?
I haven't even discussed anything about it in this thread.

Final conclusion : you are retarded, you should stop posting, get off this site and come back in about 10 years when you grow up.

>>130753837
You don't sound like a dick. You sound perfectly reasonable. And that's why I'm so pissed at all the Fighting game players. It has less absolute skill than a game like Quake but yet they don't want to allow it to be something like a dirrrrrty SSB or Naruto game. I posted that on purpose.

>>130754170
I never saw any MMA fight where people climbed shit. They fight in a CAGE dumbass.

>>130754248

Right, because no one in this thread was ever talking about smash. And it's not like Smash is one of the few fighting games to include items.

>>130754291
>I never saw any MMA fight where people climbed shit. They fight in a CAGE dumbass.

Just sop posting,
you have pretty much proven yourself an idiot,
no point in increasing your shame.

>>130754307
>smash bros
>fighting game
choose one

>>130754182

>claim items make a game luck based
>someone says how they can be used in a system that has no luck involved
>BUT SMASH BROS HAS RANDOM ITEMS BAAAW

I seriously hope you are trolling for your own sake dude.

>>130754307
>Right, because no one in this thread was ever talking about smash.

THREAD OVER GENTLEMEN,
IT IS A TROLL,
OR JUST A BIG FUCKING IDIOT WHO CAN'T SEE OP's PICTURE.

>>130754190
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17zeFODJKvI

Tekken has no oh shit moments? Watch that and prepare to look stupid, scrub.

>>130754356

>someone says how they can be used in a system that has no luck involved

This proposition came after the smash discussion started in the first place, you massive retard.

>>130754330
Are you fucking shitting me? Do you even watch UFC? They fight in an enclosed cage arena, they don't fucking run around climbing up walls and shit.

>>130754360

>how do I into sarcastic comments

I think you're an intelligent poster.

>>130754307

Smash Bros is one of the few fighting games to include FUN

>>130754361
The advertisement before the video was the most exciting thing

>>130754440

I do watch, and there are plenty of instances in climbing and forcing and/or luring another player.

But hey, it seems you do understand that fighting is about luring and chasing and cornering your opponent,
that's a start in your retardation fixing.

>>130754307

>smash bros
>new

Everyone buy two copies of the latest Naruto fighting game and Dead or Alive 5 to piss off op

>>130754486

They took all the fun out of Smash when they made brawl. Smash is ruined.

And I say this as someone who plays with items on and is otherwise garbage at the games.

Any game that includes combos has a low skill ceiling.

>>130754521

You might want to read that post again.

>>130754361

If by look stupid you mean the painfully bored expression I have on my face while watching this - you are correct.

>KICK
>DODGE
>KICK
>DODGE
>GRAPPLIN' YA
>OH GOD PLEASE DON'T RAPE ME
>LOL K BODY SLAM
>PUNCH
>DODGE
>KICK! HA THOUGHT I WAS GONNA DO A PUNCH
>OH NO YOU HIT ME
>COOOOOOOOOOMMMMBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO JUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE JUST LIKE ALL DAY OTHER GAMES
>AW NO YOU BEAT ME

>>130754406

>Assumes everyone is talking Smash brothers
>Calls others retards

>get called out on his ballant generalizations and specifying a system where a Naruto game is in OP's pic
>BUT SMASH
>calls others retards

>fightan players
>constantly demean and pick apart others
>use words like "scrub" and "salty" and "stay free" to retort every possible argument brought up against them

>these guys are essentially the Bronies of the "e-sports" world

You people are gigantic fucking manchildren who detest people who don't devote their lives to your particular genre of game.

Shut the fuck up. No one cares. Are you a Japanese player? No? Move along, you aren't shit in the big picture. Not even Justin Wang, Mike Ross, or whatever big name person you guys dick ride now (Combofiend, I guess?) is SHIT in the face of a Japanese player.

But go ahead. Keep thinking you're hot shit. Maybe one day you'll be the best in America.

Too bad that just means you'll be the least rancid smelling shit in the septic tank that is America's fighting game skill pool.

>>130754559
It's okay, I know you didn't mean that.

>>130754606

>talking about items in fighting games
>not expecting smash to come up

Get a load of this retard.

>>130754636

damn now this is a weeaboo

>>130754504
You fucking...

Ok watch this game based on Tekken's juggle system, it's an MMO fighter. They did a great job here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zQbA3EITFI&feature=related

>>130754653
>talking about items in games and in the same post criticizing generalizations and saying systems vary
>idiot comes up talking about Smash only

Yes, i know you are an underage retard.

>Bawwwwww why is a Fighting genre not to my specific liking and why is it varying?

Because you are a fanboy.

>>130754692
Damn, that looks hella fun.

>>130754698

People who call others underage are typically underage posters themselves trying to throw the scent off.

>>130754692
>COMBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO JUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
LEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEOHGODDATCOMBOJUGGLEOHGODOHGODGGODODDM
MMMMMMMMMAWWWWWSHITYEAHNIGGER COMBO MOTHER FUCKING JUGGLE AW FUCK AW FUCK YEAH THAT SWEET JUGGLE AW SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

>>130754793

People who call others scrubs are typically scrubs themselves trying to throw the scent off.

>>130754692
>Land one move
>then proceed to click every other move you have
>they can't do anything
>fun

>>130754689
Sadly, no. It's just very true.

Japanese players spend more time playing the game.
They spend more time compiling info.

They spend less time hanging out in streams, talking shit, and using hiphop nigger slang to bust down other people.

>>130754793
Thanks for not further shaming yourself in your apparent stupidity and falling down to that generic argument.
Ill take it as your admittance that you were retarded and didn't know how to read and that you will avoid doing this in the future.

>>130754840

It's a good thing I never called anyone a scrub, or else I might be embarrassed.

>>130754863

yep, this is a weeaboo

>>130754842
Don't get hit then?

>>130754891

I'll take this as you admitting you're underage.

>>130754923

Most sound argument I've heard all night ladies and gentleman

DON'T
GET
HIT

>>130754947
Now that things are resolved,
Tekken requires less thinking than Naruto,
casuals play Tekken.
Deal finished.

>>130754923
No. Even if I'm winning, that's not fun. I would like some actual strategy other than
>use launchers
>unleash everything

>>130755017
It's like sex. You get in there, and bust out all your moves and rape that pussy.

>>130755084

>rape that pussy

Confirmed for virgin.

holy fuck. you people. are fucking worse. than FPS players.

You are the shitstain on the gaming community. You are the opposite of what games should be. If I had to hang out with the FPS fanbase or the Fighter fanbase for a day I would gladly hang with the FPS players because you people are obviously the most untolerable group of individuals to ever exist.

fuck fighting players

>>130755084

>what he imagines sex is