I recall one of the later missions being set up to be where you kill the bullies from the first snowball fight in the intro who are all now zombies in the Magic Ivalice and it got me thinking. Doesn't it strike you that if some folks ended up as monsters, there's probably a good chunk of "real world" people stuck as minions? Minions that seem to exist just to be killed? Just because the four main kids got catered to in their little fantasy world doesn't mean everyone in it will be enjoying it as much as they do, methinks. That raises the more interesting question of... since Marche and crew killed those zombies, shouldn't the fallen be dead when the world changes back? What of all the people killed in the Jagd? Or like how everything magically materializes to make Marche's viewpoint correct; they just get resurrected with no memory of anything. And he just...knew that would happen. What about the babies that were likely born to couples who wouldn't have gotten together on Earth Ivalice? Well, there's a copy of Magic Ivalice for them. Because Marche can't be wrong about anything. Because he's a fucking psycho.

There is also this little thing that gives me the creeps about this issue: the "final" world may be no more or less real than the Magical Ivalice. The destruction of the final boss doesn't somehow refresh the universe in this case, it simply adds another layer of change. You can let Ivalice be as real or illusionary as you want, and it doesn't matter; everything the viewpoint character promises comes true. Of course, in that circumstance, Marche is even more of a dick -- he's slaughtered, crippled, and mauled vast numbers of individuals, altered reality again, and he's still fooling himself over an illusion that provides him exactly what he wants.

Let’s start at the beginning of his ambition to bring the world back to Earth Ivalice. When Marche found himself transported to Magic Ivalice, he still had a fleeting fantasy that seemed real to him. Perhaps it's a dream, perhaps it's real, who knows? But unlike most people, he decided that the memory he had of the place he came from was more real than the world in which he lived. No one else but him initially believed it. He had no proof beyond his own recollection, and yet he was adamant in his belief to the point of rejecting the reality in front of his face. The tricky word here is "initially". Later on he had proof and that proof helped justify his actions. Until then, however, he was acting purely on his own belief that what he saw in front of him was less real than the memories of a world he couldn't prove ever existed.

At first he believed that his old world existed even though he had absolutely no proof that it did outside of his own beliefs. Let’s say that you one day woke up in a whole new world, a fantastic world. There are no visible traces that the world you remember ever existed. Absolutely no one you know personally is around. All you have to indicate that world are your own memories. No one around you knows about this world but you. What’s wrong, your memory or those of thousands of people? Your memory is likely to be faulty, but NO, not to Marche. Sure, to cling to these things for a time is human nature, but in the game a long time passes between him arriving in Magic Ivalice and him getting proof the old world existed, and yet throughout this time he still believes that the old world existed and even destroys things that are important to the structure of the world that he believes are hindering him from going home.

Normally someone would eventually rationalize their memories as a dream and would accept the physical world around them as real. They’ll inherit that life and cast the old memories away to fit in. They’re likely the crazy ones in that situation, not the thousands of people around them. The past world may as well be interpreted as a figment of the person’s imagination, specifically a dream they had. This is inevitably the normal conclusion someone would come to along with the self-conscious belief that something might be wrong with them for forgetting the entirety of their past life in Magic Ivalice and instead having such vivid recollections of another world.

Of course, anyone who has such memories can’t possibly be normal, so it’s also entirely possible, if not even more likely that a person like that will absolutely refuse to accept that they are wrong or insane. Insane people usually believe they’re completely normal even though they rave about things that no one else can comprehend. Think about it. If you encountered someone who told you that they came from another world, would you believe them, or even think them normal in any way? Marche was, in many ways, technically crazy by all accounts at that point. Of course we all know that he was right and that he’s not really crazy… or is he? He did all that at the beginning without proof Original Ivalice was real with only his own beliefs and no one else‘s backing him just like a crazy person would. He did get proof later on, but until then he was very much the technical psycho.

He's a hero, anyone that thinks otherwise doesn't realizes that million of people were monsters and other scum before he rescued them.

Sure, he was right in the end. But to do all that? It's a form of insanity. Marche was insane because he doubted the tangible reality in front of him based on the dream, fantasy, memory, whatever he had of a world that he once thought as real as the world he was currently in, and worse, he acted upon that insanity and crushed the dreams of two other children, one of which was his own flesh and blood. Does that make him a villain? Maybe not from your perspective, but it sure doesn't make him a fucking hero.

You might say “to do that initially was insane then, but can you really call his later actions, motivated with proof of the other world's validity, insanity?” Of course not. That's when he starts to become a real dick. At first, he had the excuse of insanity. Later on, he decided that, while the world they were in was fun, it was time to go home. It's like a dude running rides at Disney World telling the kids that it's time to go home because the dude is tired of working. Doesn't mean the kids are tired, and it doesn't mean you ought to ruin their fun just 'cause you suck.

You could also argue that he’s not evil because he didn’t truly want to hurt other people, he just wanted to get home and that just required the sacrifice of many lives. Did Garland actively want to hurt people? No, he wanted immortality, the four fiends of chaos wanted to hurt people. His quest for immortality ultimately lead him to hurt people. Was this selfish? Hell yes. Did he care he was hurting people? Maybe, but probably not. Did he just ignore their suffering? We don’t know, but it’s definitely possible. In this way it’s possible to infer that Marche possesses this same selfishness that Garland did. Marche is as big a dick as Garland, the very first Final Fantasy villain. That’s really something.

If Marche hadn't gone FUCK THAT YOU'RE GOING HOME, who would be the wiser? Why is there this entirely selfish and stupid desire of “I MUST LIVE IN THE REAL WORLD EVEN IF IT'S HORRIBLE?” The dream world WAS the real world, just altered. If someone altered the world slightly so you won the lottery, would you go "FUCK THAT THIS ISN'T REAL" and try to change it? Marche didn't change the world because "OMG IT'S ALL A LIE." He didn't destroy the dream world because of some ideals or desire to free his friends. He did it because he's a selfish cock who DIDN'T CARE that his friends were happy or that he was killing all those people, he just personally wanted to go home.

Well, you could say, “being thankful for pain is stupid, but it makes us human and Marche just had the balls to realize that running away from your problems isn't a good way to live. Sure, it's not like his life was fucking roses everywhere. Doned was a no-good-invalid, but who was taking care of his ass? Marche.”

But then I’d have to say while the theme was SUPPOSED to be "don't run from your problems," it's not done that well when your problems are things like "You're a cripple who constantly has to go to the hospital for painful operations" or "Your mother is dead and your dad is a drunk and everyone hates you." Can't exactly do anything BUT run away or get into escapism for those problems, so the moral is broken. Only Marche and his girlfriend are able to confront and overcome their problems, but that’s only because they only have petty self-esteem issues.

He crushed his friends' dreams because he was the only person who wasn't happy with the new world.

Everyone else was practically in heaven.

I dont fucking know. I didnt finish the game jackass. I couldn't beat that goddamn dog, Barnabas.

Yeah, Marche handled his problems like a real man. Such horrible problems like "I'm awkward at school because I just moved" and "my mom doesn't pay as much attention to me as I want." Why couldn't the cripple deal with his problems? Oh wait, BECAUSE HE'S A FUCKING CRIPPLE. YOU CAN'T EXACTLY JUST DECIDE TO DEAL WITH IT. How about Mewt? Why can't he just suck it up and accept the fact that his entire life is on a downward spiral that will never get better, that his entire family is mocked around the town, that nobody remembers his dead mom except him and his loser, drunk dad? THAT'S SO SIMILAR TO MARCHE'S PROBLEMS, RIGHT? If FFTA was supposed to show us "Don't run away from your problems!" then they should've given us characters who could actually still run. You should find someone in a wheelchair then kick them and laugh and say "Just DEAL with it, buddy!" I'm sure that's a great moral lesson there.

marche is only an antagonist due to shitty writing on the devs part

>this shit again

D O U B L E S

In short, Marche is awesome. He wanted to get back to his home and none of his friends/family were strong enough to stop him, so fuck them. They should have fought harder. Pussies. Also, I love how Marche is self righteous enough to claim Doned has it better then him because mom pays more attention to his crippled ass. I think that was the best moment in the entire game. If you somehow still think that Marche was justified during his quest, then there’s something wrong with your head. So, I have every right to turn my sibling into a paraplegic and kill my best friend’s mother if they're in my way? Good to know!

Remember, in the end, this is in no way completely factual. This is all based on logic and conjecture. If you don’t want Marche to be evil, then that’s up to you. Unless it’s explicitly stated, there’s nothing that truly proves that Marche is the bad guy, however, acting as if there’s not much to imply the theory’s possibility is just plain ignorant. Then again, this entire theory is based upon the many gigantic flaws inherent in FFTA’s storyline because the writers sucked ass, but still, it’s there.

>>123161823
i started ff tactics advance like 4 times and i always quit in the middle of it

>>123161416
OP, totally agree with ya bro.
Not that I disapprove of Marche. It made for an interesting story to say the least. A main quest line where your objective is to destroy the world not something you see often.

>>123161854
There is no way for him to be the antagonist when he is the player character. A villain maybe

Are we really going to have this argument and discussion again?

marcheisadick.png

>>123161661
>>123161661
>>123161661
THIS.

Many people were turned into creatures that you end up slaying in battles. He did it for the greater good.

FUCK THAT You're goin' home!

tl;dr
Yeah, he's a big dick, but he works really hard to be one.

>>123161661

Word of the creator is that Magic!Ivalice was Ivalice overwritten by Marche and companies wishes. Every single person who wasn't from the real world had their identity overwritten by the Book (essentially being brainwashed), as did the world itself. By leaving, Marche restored Ivalice to it's true existence.

Ivalice is real. Magic Ivalice was the fantasy that Marche's friends had created. It didn't want to end because they didn't want it to end. They essentially mind-raped thousands upon thousands of people to play out their fantasies in a dream world.

Marche was a bit of a dick about it, but he was in the right.

>>123161416

fft >>>>>>>>> fft advance

>>123161991
I started it twice, can't finish it.
It's just that all those missions, and then when you do the main oens you get your ass kicked, and so you go do stupid missions to get money and buy shit, adn then you do missions and missioNS AND MISSIONS

>>123162695
Tatics Ogre > FFT

OKAY GUYS. This is getting old.

THE GRIMOIRES. They are different realities to the raw Ivalice, they aren't real, and they don't supplant the real world. Lea Monde was the most powerful grimoire - that's why it could affect the real world directly. Marche's and Luso's are "normal" grimoires.

THE FAKE IVALICE. Would kill his non-"imaginary" friends, the grimoires consume your vital force to sustain themselves over time. Luso's allows time travel, it's a turn on - turn off thing, Marche's (and Lea Monde) were full-time things meaning the grimoires would've killed them over time.

THE CHARACTERS WITHIN GRIMOIRE IVALICE. Are data stored in the grimoire that "executes" when the user summons it, reacreting them based on the situation.

WHY MONTBLANC APPEARS IN FFXII. Because cameos work like that.

>Op writes multi-post explanation for why Marche is a dick
>Use one picture to completely destroy the entire argument

The only thing there is to say is that Marche woke up one morning to find everything in his world had changed, and he had vague memories of other things. He rationalized that this entire world was fake and that he had a real world. He then decided that he hated this change so much that he was going to destroy the entire world hoping that it would just bring him back home instead of killing everybody which it was likely to do.

>>123162949
>Sequels and FF12 prove that it is a lie
>what now faggot

>>123163151
>Implying that FFTA2 and 12 take place in the exact same Ivalice as FFT

>>123163151

Luso does not travel to Marche's Ivalice, nor is XII set in said place.
Marche's: Fake Ivalice created with the data within the grimoire and Final Fantasy gimmicks sprouted from their mind.
Luso's, Tactics and XII: Different times of the real Ivalice.

Here's your problem OP. You're doing the same thing people did when Skyward Sword basically ruined their fanon about the Zelda timeline.

The game clearly indicates that Marche is in the right. Yes, his friends try to stop him, and yes, he has to push past them and their desire to stay, but in the end they all agree with him and openly state he did the right thing.

On top of that they all come out of the experience as better people for it.

Whether you like it or not? Marche isn't the villain. Game's canon and Word of God override your theories.

>>123163228

They do. Luso joining Ramza's army through timetravel as well as Balthier doing much of the same is actually taken as canon.
In fact, Luso doing so much is so canon that it's not even "optional" in FFT, you WILL find Luso and he WILL join you, unlike Balthier who is a sidequest.

> ivalice under mewt was an hilariously insane totalitarian state where you can get arrested for tending your wounds if the judges arbitrarily decide so (assuming they don't just upright bend the law to fuck you) and has shit like a day where everyone in the world needs to give him an expensive present
> not everyone was a RAD AS FUCK ADVENTURER, (see those bullies who turned into zombies)
> the only kid that had anything resembling a legit reason to not wanna come home (his brother) was implied to always be taking advantage of his condition to milk people and never actually tries to find his brother before (to see if he's okay/he likes him) or after he's the most wanted man on earth (to make sure it's legit). He just betrays him. You can be a cripple and still an asshole

Deal with it, stop making stuff up because you completely mis-understood the point of the game and think escapism is awesome because you suck