>>116493307
You simply don't use fun if you discuss a game, because it's subjective. Instead, you explain what mechanics do you think make this game fun to you.

"Fun" is used to bail out of discussion lately by worshipping fanboys though.

>>116493477
But what if I like _______ because it's fun?

>>116493517
Then be prepared to explain why you think it's fun.

>>116493517
there has still got to be a reason on why a game is fun to you, for instance, take skyrim, it's fun for a lot of players because it's open world and you can stray from the main questline to do other things

Fun is just a buzzword etc.

'entertaining' or 'enjoyable' would be a better word to explain liking a game.

Well say in the case of RPG's I consider meaningfull choices that actually change something to be fun, some naturally having more short term impact as it'd be unreasonable to expect every choice to change the course of history.

I also considering a lot of stats and gear to fiddle with to be an intricate part of RPG's as they allow me to change up my character and you get to quest and whatnot for new weaponry and equipment to further the abilities of your characters.

A meaningfull story as well though one could believe that goes without saying when you want meaningfull choices, but a well written universe that's fleshed out and detailed will add a lot to the game as a whole as you can explore and discover different aspects of the social and political climate.

>>116493636
if you explain why a game is fun to you, instead of just saying it's fun for no reason, then it becomes less of a buzzword and more of a proper explanation

>>116493619

Then the question becomes, "why is an open world and the ability to stray away from the main questline, 'fun'?"

>>116493810
this.

>>116493810
Do you really want to get philosophic in here?

>>116493810
It adds diversity and an element of exploration, humans are curious creatures afterall and an open world that has much to do in it would appeal to this.

Define fun

Being fun is what makes a game fun.

>>116493810
it's still an element inside of the game so it is still explaining on why the game itself is fun to you, to properly explain why an aspect is fun to you do have elaborate on why it is fun, just saying fun on it's own has no backbone into why a game could be fun for you

>>116493928

"It adds diversity and an element of exploration."

How is that fun?

>Fun

What language are you speaking, OP ?

>>116494091
I've already explained that, and attributed the fun to elements within the game itself. And in the course of doing so probably given more actual arguments to the imaginary games quality than all nintoddlers have done for all nintendo games throughout history.

......."fun"?

>>116494091
stop, idiot.
don't you see a difference between:
>IT FUN DEAL WITH IT YOU MAD NO DISCUSSION ALLOWED POST PONIES
and
>it's fun for me because of A, B and C. i also like games that offer D.
?

Do you even fun?

>>116493307

can you coherently explain why a game is fun? if you can, then the game is fun, at least for you

if someone asks what exactly makes a game with purchasing, let alone discussing on /v/, and your only response is that it's fun? then the game isn't fun. in fact, it's shit and you are an idiot who belongs gamefaqs

>>116494407
No, I don't even out the fun, I take it all for myself.

>What makes a game fun?
-gameplay, yes if gameplay is great then its fun
-graphics, unfortunatly yes, but it doesnt mean it has to be SUPER REALISTIC, it can be artistical or just well made so it composes well as a whole, good graphics make you go "wow" and its fun
-storyline, yup, great storyline makes you want to continue to play a game when you get bored with graphics and gameplay
-sounds and music, it makes you go WOW, who doesnt like to listen to good sounds in games when you bash someones skull
-waifu simulator, we all are lonelyfucks, we love to have virtual girlfriends
-multiplayer, we love to kick other people asses and we LOVE to feel better than other people

did i miss something?

I think Alpha Protocol is an interesting example of "fun" because technically the game is shit, with many bugs, a broken combat system and level ups that make the game impossible to die or lose but somehow the genuine story changing decisions manage to make the whole thing worth playing through and entertaining even with the easy combat and stupid weapons.

>>116494367
>don't you see a difference between:

What's the difference?

>>116494489
You do know good graphics are not defined by realism right? It's more the other way around.

Fuck yeah! schoolyard philosophy!

>>116494581
graphics can be good when its realistic and when its unrealistic, i never said that only realistic graphics is good

fuck i play dwarf fortress after all

>>116494581

thats just like your opinion man.

>>116494491
Alpha Protocol was boring to me. A consolish and easy gameplay with ME style dialogues. To me was not fun.

>>116494418
if you retards would stop for a second to pay attention to what the fuck you're saying, you'd realize how fucking stupid you are

if a person's only argument is that a game is fun, then guess what? that's perfectly fine. for them to explain WHY the game is fun would just be incredibly redundant. All they would be doing would be listing the things that are on the back of the box.

>Oh I like TES because of the open world
no shit

>>116494637
No that's a fact.
>>116494631
DF has shit graphics no matter how one tries to spin it though.
>>116494650
> calls people who want more explanation of a games quality than "fun" stupid
Oh the irony.

>>116494650

>for them to explain WHY the game is fun would just be incredibly redundant

this is the quite possibly the dumbest thing i have ever read

A game is fun, when it suits your preferences.

That is all.

>>116494756
>No that's a fact.
thats just like your opinion man.

>>116494650

>or them to explain WHY the game is fun would just be incredibly redundant. All they would be doing would be listing the things that are on the back of the box.

>a game is fun when i say it is fun.

/thread

I don't really need to justify my opinions to you guys.

>>116494650

Let me guess, nintoddler or skyrimfag right?

>>116493711
I dont support that autistic notion.

Fun is fun. I love fun!

>>116495105

>ITT: existentialism

What makes a game good?

>>116493307
Dresses and cute stuff.

>>116494650
This. Explaining why something is fun is useful for people that haven't played the game and want to know what aspects they like that eh person who played the game also liked.

This has zero value on a place like /v/ where the debates are never informative and are always between people that made up their mind.

When someone on /v/ says something is fun for it's own sake, it's them being smart enough to know they aren't going to persuade anyone of anything non one is hear to be convinced, only to be heard.

If you want an explanation to why a game is fun, read reviews.

>>116494418

So are you saying that you have to be able to explain to yourself why you find a game fun, or else it is in fact not fun for you?

And are you saying that if you use "fun" as an explanation for a game's quality in a critical discussion, then the game is somehow automatically transformed into being a terrible piece of shit?

I hope that's not what you're saying, because that's fucking insane.

>>116495280
Do you honestly expect people to take a person who can only bring up "fun" as an argument for a games quality seriously? His total lack of argument for the games quality would indicated it lacks quality.

>>116495219
Stimulation of the cortex.

The same thing that makes food taste good.
The right ingredients.

/v/ tends to forget not everyone has a different taste pallet for video games.

>>116495255
> read reviews.
Hahahaohwow, nice samefag trying to save face though.

>>116495056
>claim something
>backing up your claims is suddenly considered autistic

Wow.

>>116495255
>This has zero value on a place like /v/ where the debates are never informative

You've just been unfortunate, theres plenty of informative discussion on /v/

What is fun?

>>116495401
not that fag you replied to, but there is a point made.
He said read reviewS
So don't source your information on one website that likely has payed bias *coughIGNcough*, read multiple opinions from multiple sources and base your thoughts on that.

>>116495526
>"YOUR FAVOURITE GAME IS SHIT!"
>"NO U"
>"NO U"

>>116495564
A buzzword to describe something that provides amusement, although you might be ignorant of the mechanism behind it- in which case, find out what it is.

>>116495564
Baby dont hurt me

>>116495564
baby don't hurt me

>>116495355
>Do you honestly expect people to take a person who can only bring up "fun" as an argument for a games quality seriously?

No, of course not, because that's something completely subjective which cannot be argued about.

>His total lack of argument for the games quality would indicated it lacks quality.

Now that's just a crazy thing to say. So because someone can't explain why they like a game, the game must be bad? If anything, I would think someone liking the game, even if they can't give any specific reasons, would point to the game being good rather than bad because, hey, someone likes it.

>>116495574
>read a bunch of retards who think their opinion matters when they get paid to Say X or Y
vs
>read a bunch of blind fanboys/employers & unbiased opinions
i'll pick the second choice , thank you

Basically when a game offers no challenge, and caters to retards, it's fun.

>>116495710

No more.

What is a man, /v/?

>>116495280

>are you saying that if you use "fun" as an explanation for a game's quality in a critical discussion, then the game is somehow automatically transformed into being a terrible piece of shit?

uhh...what? it sounds to me like he is saying that if you can't do something as simple as explaining why a game is fun then you belong on gamefaqs.

which sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

what is "fucking insane" is making an incredibly assumptive post that has nothing to do with the post you quoted. it sounds like you have a lot of angst built up against people who actually want a quality discussion on /v/ and not fags going "HURR ITS FUN AND I DONT HAVE TO EXPLAIN WHY".

let me guess, nintenyearold having trouble justifying his 3DS?

>>116495782
> Now that's just a crazy thing to say.
Not at all.
> So because someone can't explain why they like a game, the game must be bad?
It would indicate that yes.

>>116495806
>implying games likes F-Zero, Dark Souls and Contra aren't fun

>>116495890
I don't have to explain God to you, since I believe.
I don't have to explain why I find game X fun.

See? Morons

>>116495782
>Someone can't think of an argument why he finds that game good.

He's statement that a game is good, is very credible then, am I right?

>>116495782

Assuming that you know nothing about a certain game, you inquire about the quality of said game, and the best response you get is "it's fun" with no explanation/rationale to b-b-back that claim up; it is perfectly reasonable to assume the game isn't worth a second look.

We are living in the INFORMATION AGE. we live an in economy of ideas. if the best you can come up with is "it's fun" then there are a million other games i can be discussing that people actually bother to explain WHY it's fun

>>116496040
> I don't have to explain God to you, since I believe.
But like with fun, no one will take you seriously.

>>116496091
My point exactly.
Why do you find game X fun needs to be explained, same with why one would choose to believe in God,
Saying " I believe" isn't an argument, same with "it's fun".

Basically, perfecting the balance between challenge and reward.

I hate /v/.
Honestly, what civil minded people feel the need to argue this shit?
I mean sure its /v/, but you don't have to justify subjective enjoyment, only explain it to those who are indifferent about the same game/media.

I find kirby air ride 'fun'. I can't really explain why you should play it, because I know its not a popular game and a very half baked game with little to do.
But the enjoyment I get of 7 random minutes with retarded CPU players with random upgrade drops falling from the sky and random events taking place every now and then to potentially fuck you up or make you a god.

Its simple, somewhat addictive, but I can see why people would call it a shit game.
I also eat Vegemite on toastwithout butter

There's really no point to even try to explain why you think a game is fun, because the discussion usually goes like:
>"I think adventure game X is fun"
>"Why?"
>"I think it has good story and gameplay"
>">Adventure game X, >good story and gameplay, >Laughingwhores.jpg"

Most people usually have formed their opinion of the said game before the discussion.

If you enjoy it, then it's fun.
Subjective.

Hey Faggots,

My name is John, and I hate every single one of you. All of you are fat, retarded, no-lifes who spend every second of their day looking at stupid ass pictures. You are everything bad in the world. Honestly, have any of you ever gotten any pussy? I mean, I guess it's fun making fun of people because of your own insecurities, but you all take to a whole new level. This is even worse than jerking off to pictures on facebook.

Don't be a stranger. Just hit me with your best shot. I'm pretty much perfect. I was captain of the football team, and starter on my basketball team. What sports do you play, other than "jack off to naked drawn Japanese people"? I also get straight A's, and have a banging hot girlfriend (She just blew me; Shit was SO cash). You are all faggots who should just kill yourselves. Thanks for listening.

Pic Related: It's me and my bitch

>mfw he was right

>>116496204

You explicitly stated that with a challenge, the game provides zero amusement.

Defend that claim.

>>116496316
Unless the game's Dwarf Fortress. That game has an objective definition of fun: Losing

>>116496247
What about things that are fun to watch?

>>116496352
>tumblr

And don't come back.

>>116496384
What you mean?

>>116495835

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but this:
>if someone asks what exactly makes a game with purchasing, let alone discussing on /v/, and your only response is that it's fun? then the game isn't fun. in fact, it's shit
says to me that if someone is to ever defend a game by saying "it's fun" then the game in question undergoes some mutation and becomes objectively a terrible game, which is just crazy. Do you understand what I mean?

Oh and,
>Accuse me of being incredibly assumptive
>Make far more baseless assumptions about me than I possibly made about someone else

Stay classy.

>>116495855

But that's such a leap of logic. It's much easier to assume something like "this guy is an inarticulate dumbass" than "this game must be shit because he can't provide more concrete explanations as to why it is enjoyable". I mean, how would you feel if someone were to think that about a game you think is great, because someone else said "it's just fun"?

>>116496282

your mistake is in assuming that there are certain games that are fun, but it is simply impossible to do so.

That is completely and totally 100% wrong. the problem is with YOU. I am sure there are people on /v/ who can accurately and succinctly explain why Kirby's Air Ride is a fun game. Just because you do not have the intellectual capacity to do so doesn't mean that there is a problem with /v/. the problem is with YOU.

>>116496416
You mean like Metal Gear Solid 4?

Then it should have an entertaining plot and great lines.

>>116496282
> but you don't have to justify subjective enjoyment
Don't expect anyone to take you seriously however.
> I find kirby air ride 'fun'.
> kirby air ride
Coincidence, I think not.

>>116496457

impossible to explain why they are fun*

>>116496490
What makes an entertaining plot?

/v/ is going to be very fucking boring we all just sit around saying "It's fun xD"

It's odd how it's suddenly become unacceptable to ask why people enjoy something.

>>116496507
You take any people from /v/ seriously?

Here's how you make a fun game. You have 30 points to distribute between gameplay, music, challenge and reward. The most you can put in any category is 10. If you multiply the numbers in the categories together when finished, the higher your number is, the more fun the game is. The 30 point limit can be increased if your development team is particularly creative/skilled at what they're doing.

>>116496434
it was the first image in google images

>>116496594
Well not you, seeing as you can't come up with a better argument for a games quality than "fun".

>>116496560
>It's odd how it's suddenly become unacceptable to ask why people enjoy something.
Ehh, it not unacceptable, but when ever I've been asked why I enjoy games I get responded with greentext and laughin elfman

>>116496555
What makes a plot entertaining?

Well, it touches on subjects and issues that you can relate you to in one manner or another, new takes on well known tropes, etc.

>>116496085
>Assuming that you know nothing about a certain game, you inquire about the quality of said game

This doesn't apply to /v/. You either love a game, hate it, or don't give a shit on /v/. Nobody comes here to learn about the merits of a game. You can do that in so many more faster ways than sifting through flame wars between faggots.

What have we learned from the BF3 v MW3 crowd about their precious games in the past month of non-stop shit-posting that we couldn't have learned from a 10 minute google search?

Not much. When someone on /v/ says "x is fun because it just is.", it's because they've been on /v/ long enough to know that if they try to make a case, it's just gonna end in "Well that's your opinion." or "It's not an opinion, it's fact."(even though it's an opinion).

>>116496696
>Well, it touches on subjects and issues that you can relate you to in one manner or another, new takes on well known tropes, etc.
Well, that's just like your opinion man.

PEOPLE DON'T KNOW HOW TO JUSTIFY THEIR OPINIONS IN 2011

MOVIE AT 11

>>116496443
When you say that you enjoyed a game because it's fun, that ok. It means that the game suited your personal preferences.

But fun is to subjective to be a valid arguments why a is good game.

>>116496752
No kidding.

>>116496560

It isn't unacceptable to ask why somebody enjoys something, people just became beyond hostile to anyone who says something is fun. Shit's annoying.

>>116496457
I used kirby air ride as a rough example of something I find particularly charming with a sufficient amount of hectic moments that can turn your mode from easy-cakes to OHFUCK YOU DESTROYED MY STAR YOU CUNT EATING MOTHER FUCKER with only seconds left on the clock and theres only one star around in which for you to grab, even though its not the best, its better than default.
I enjoy that.
>Just because you don't have the intellectual capacity to do so...
Wow, just wow.
Way to take what I said and completely misinterpret it you flaming bag of cocks.

>enjoy a game some doesn't like
>they ask me why
>its fun
>explain why its fun

>implying there's an explanation for something so subjective

>>116496724
> baww they'll only greentext and hate on me, it's useless to make an argument so you should accept "fun"

Ever occured to you they were mocking the game and you for not being able to articulate a single reasonable argument for the games quality?

>>116496055

No, it's not credible at all, but it wouldn't be any more credible if the same person said "it's shit", either. Rather than take it as an indication that a game lacks quality, you should just discard their opinion completely, if anything.

>>116496085

No, it's not reasonable. What's reasonable is to search out actual information on the game in question if you can't get a real answer from someone you ask (which should be readily available because we are living in the INFORMATION AGE, as you say).

>>116496821
it works in backward direction the same way
everyone is spamming "its fun" way out of merit

>>116496768
they just dont want to
and in the end you are wrong for not agreeing with their unexplained opinion

you think the game is shit? But its fun for me, thus your point is void, neckbeard virgin

I think MW3 is fun because I enjoy playing games that give me a reward for playing them (leveling up, unlocking weapons, etc).

There's no valid arguement for why a game is good. The only part about games that isn't subjective is technology.

>>116496838
> implying there's an explanation for something so subjective
Uh, yeah, there's something within the game you find fun right? If you are unable to explain that perhaps you're simply so simple minded the mere concept of having something to do is the greatest thing ever for you. In which you can't be expected to be taken seriously either.

>>116496937

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overjustification_effect

>According to self-perception theory, people pay more attention to the incentive, and less attention to the enjoyment and satisfaction that they receive from performing the activity. The overall effect is a shift in motivation to extrinsic factors and the undermining of pre-existing intrinsic motivation.

only /v/ would be meta-beta enough to discuss this.
why don't we sit down and read some freud and argue how retarded we all are?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz32WHGPXMI

>>116496980
"The gameplay is fun"
"Why is the gameplay fun?"
"Well gee, I dont know. I enjoyed doing this and that"
"Why did you enjoy doing it?"

add infinite

>>116497138
Well you do realize that asking "why" add infinitum can be quite troublesome...

Overcoming frustratingly difficult games is fun.

I love the rage that builds inside me when playing a difficult game and even more, the feeling when I learn a difficult pattern necessary to pass to the next stage. I like games like Castlevania, Ninja Gaiden, Megaman, Super Ghouls N Ghosts...

Does this make me weird?

>>116496980
Ok guy, full explain why you like a certain game. If you can't you won't be taken seriously, also you can't say its fun.

>>116496892
> they just dont want to
Then they shouldn't expect to be taken even remotely serious.
> and in the end you are wrong for not agreeing with their unexplained opinion
> they can't back up their statement
> you are wrong for not believing in it
I take it we're back to believing the flying spaghetti monster is our lord and saviour?
>>116497036
Read plenty of Freud in my days, funny man but out of date which is not unexpected since he was the first who did what he did.

>>116497229
Freud was a quack that made shit up and a coke head.

No joke.

>>116496788

I'm not sure why that's a reply to my post, but yes I agree with you. When someone says they found a game "just fun", it adds nothing to an argument in a critical or objective sense at all, in either direction. It doesn't back-up the claim of a game being good, nor does it back-up the claim of a game being bad.

The only thing it does add is to the count of "people who like this game" vs. "people who don't like this game", nothing more, nothing less.

>>116497206
As far as I remember, games offered some challenge to the player, so beating a game could be considered as an achievement of skill rather than sitting through two hours of cinematic.
So, yeah, its more natural than anything else.

I believe that there is a conflict between "challenging fun" viewpoint and "amusement park" viewpoint.

>>116497342
>doesn't respect Freud

Armchair psychologist detected.

>>116497206

>Does this make me weird?

Die in a fucking fire.

>why do you like to masturbate
>it feels good
>nope, you can't back that up, you're a faggot, get the fuck out

>>116497342
I dont like Freud, but you are making shit up and, judging by the conversation, probably using drugs as well. And that doesnt make you a Freud at all

>>116497399
Pretty sure even in academia, Freud is regarded as a quack doc that is only mentioned because he started the study of psychology.

I like sex because it feels good.
I like girls because they are beautifull.
I like beer because it tastes good.
I like video games because they are fun.

>>116497596
>beer
>taste good

It's bitter. Because it's poisonous.
You're a huge fucking idiot.

Post dismissed.

It's a buzzword.

>>116497138
Then they'd already have attributed the fun to elements within the game itself and further along the line they'd have done so in great detail, which is an infinitely superior argument to "fun".
>>116497228
Well I like mirrors edge for its very active gameplay which is fast phaced for those who are good at it making it a very active game, especially in time trials. The first person view for such a game also brings a different perspective which was interesting since it had not been done before to my knowledge and certainly not experienced by me, having it work very well with the game itself naturally made it better. I also like the notion that timing, precision and reflexes are rewarded with better performance so a good player can actually become better instead of relying on extremely simplistic mechanics that make a fast run easy to do even for the players which lack the timing, precision and reflexes that the better player possess.

Certain levels offer the player more options as well, especially in time trials where it's not simply about perfecting timing and precision but also being a little inventive and perhaps discover new routes, encourage them to think a little so to say. That is something I would like to see more of, not only in other game but in Mirrors edge itself where not all levels has much of this.

Some things I find enjoyable with mirrors edge.

>>116497399
in every other branch of science (inb4 implying psyciatry is science), beliefs aren't set in stone.

>implying all the stupid shit the ancient greek scientists believed in are still accepted today because herp they're the ancient greeks we gotta respect them.

>>116497596
>Sex feels good
>Girls are beautifull
>Beer tastes good
>Video games are fun

>>116497496
No really. Freud was a well known cokehead. He thought it enhanced his power of thought.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigmund_Freud#Cocaine

>>116497487
>>116497596
>why do you like to masturbate with a sandpaper
>why do you bang ugly girls
>why do you drink piss in a beer bottle
>why do you play glitchy rehashed video games with no gameplay

>Because its fun to mutilate yourself and cover in excrement!
Dont substitute notions next time, sirs.

>>116497691
After a while you come to associate the taste with the effect and it starts to be really tasty.

>>116497596
those are all very broad though, what specific beers do you like, what kind of girls do you find attractive etc.

>>116497772
I like tasty beers and I find beautifull girls attractive.

>>116497772
That's actually irrelevant in the big picture.

>>116497596
I like sex because it feels good.
I like girls because they are beautifull.
I like beer because it tastes good.
I like video games because they distract me from all the above.

>>116497756

That's not tasty then you dickweed, it's psychological addiction.

>>116497745

coke does enhance the power of thought, all amphetamines do.

now i know there are many kids on this board because of how many people are getting trolled hard because someone says their games aren't fun. man the fuck up and come with a fucking reason or don't talk about it at all.

>>116497823
you implied that games are fun in the same sense that girls are attractive.
So, all games? or fun games? fun games are fun, so its fun to play them?
what kind of property is fun?

what kind of implication is that?

>>116497691
I think bitter tastes good.

>>116497919

that's like saying food tasting good because it gives nourishment is a psychological addiction. it's a simple pavlovian response, no more and no less

>>116498001

You -are- addicted to eating food.

Jesus christ are you all stupid?

>>116497991
I tried to imply that this thread is pants on head retarted.

>>116497976
>peter pan charge
its like you didnt say anything at all

>>116497342
Well I know, doesn't mean I didn't have to read about him seeing as he started the whole shebang.

>>116498060
well no shit. welcome to /v/

guns

>>116497976
>if you can't explain why you like something I don't like you're a child

Cool logic bro. Maybe if you don't like something you can just piss off and not talk about it?

>>116497715
I'm not trying to be ironic or a troll, but i back it up. It is a buzzword if you can't really back up why it was fun to you, or exactly what. If you say you had much fun racing against others in some extrevagant cars, then it would be believable. If you say, i had fun with the game, deal with it, then you sure are hiding something. I mean, when i post in a trhead about a certain game, i first tend to THINK (most users here forget about that) and then type why i thought it was good or bad. You all niggers use kornheiser so much, but never question yourself.

>>116497919
That's what tasty means you asshat.

>>116497691
I suppose you don't drink coffee either? And you only eat sweets and candy?

It's a taste you have to acquire; you don't necessarily like it the first time you have it.

Hey guys. I like the taste of milk, but I have no arguements why I like it. Am I retarded?

why are dubs so fun /v/?

>>116498129
people said game was bad as "game" in various directions

then some faggot appeared and proclaimed how fun was this bad game to him

they were talking about two different things
people can enjoy shit games, it just doesnt make those games better.

I love saying that I enjoyed that something because it was fun. There's no counter to it, plus it gets madfags to start tearing up.

>>116498215

yes, back it up or get out faggot, "enjoying" something won't hold up in a court of law

A challenging game is a fun game.

There are of course other aspects, but that for me is the major role. That's why I still go back to Shadow Of the Horned Rat every few years or so and try to complete it again, only to fail miserably.

muh dik

>>116498215
milk is generally good. Generally. Like games are generally fun.
But do you like spoiled milk? Or frozen and then thawed milk? That way, some particular game couldnt be enjoyable for most of people due to its properties. Is that more understandable?

QTE
Regen health
Guns
Shitty FPS
Brown
Throwing birds onto a pigs with shitty music and framerate

>>116498215
You enjoy milk because you like the flavor and or texture.

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>>116497991
There are actual beauty standards. If your eyes are symetrical to your nose or some bullshit. You can measure everything. You can say that this woman is more attractive than the other, as you can say this vidya is more fun than the other, because of certain aspects. Having fun with - lets take our favorite MW3 - makes you look like a

1. very young gamer that just discovered gaming some days ago and never played any shooters before, because all of them are better than MW3 and its not like MW3 reinveted the whole shooter genre and itself.

2. literal retard.

Fun is a buzzword, arguments, why something is fun, are the real deal.

>>116498175
Coffee is for hipsters and other faggots. The only reason normal humans ever drink it is because they want the caffeine.

tl;dr: You're a fag.

>>116498215
No. Milk's awesomeness is self-evident.

>>116498344

>>116498416
>There are actual beauty standards. If your eyes are symetrical to your nose or some bullshit. You can measure everything. You can say that this woman is more attractive than the other, as you can say this vidya is more fun than the other, because of certain aspects. Having fun with - lets take our favorite MW3

Its funny how hard you're trying to make something 100% subjective into an objective view.

>>116498416
yeah, standards.I can agree with your words. That doesnt prevent people from liking ugly girls, and some significant portion of perverts will overthrow any conversation on how ugly those said girls are.

>>116498387
Yeah! Though I cant explain why I like the flavor and texture..

BUZZWORD GENERAL
BUZZWORD GENERAL
BUZZWORD GENERAL

>>116498344
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>>116498597
Then GTFO you autistic fuck!

>>116498450
>somebody likes something I don't
>they're a hipster faggot
>drinks ramune and eats pocky

>>116498344
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>>116498597
any glass of milk? absolutely any? It can taste different... >>116498332
What if I ejaculate in a glass and sell it as a "new milk"
will you enjoy that milk?
will funfags defend new milk because its Milk, and because they always enjoyed milk, and going to preorder and enjoy New milk?

>>116498344
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>>116498778
>funfags

>mfw the level of dumbassery ITT

>>116498215
Do you like milk hot, cold, or moist milk? Do you like milk with chocolate powder?

Valid argument:
>I like this game because it's fun

Invalid argument:
>This game is good because it's fun

It's pretty simple really.

check dese

>>116498778
Well I have only tasted regular milk and chocolate milk. I like the taste of both. I should taste this "new milk" before I know if I like it or not.

>>116498935
let me help.

Why do I have to explain why a game is fun to someone on the internet if they are going to call it shit regardless of what I say? It's a different story if somebody seemed genuinely interested as to why I like a game. Maybe they've never heard of it or never played it? Like I want to explain shit to you assholes just to disregard anything I say.

Generally, I think MOST people find a game fun if it rewards you for becoming better at it, and whenever you die, it seems justified.
Take hammerfight, for example, it's a bad one.
You will often suddenly die by a random rocket, the enemy exploding upon kill, or some other function.
While yes, there IS logic behind it, it's not possible for the player to grasp when he's thrown into the game.

An enemy with a gun will explode upon death, almost instantly killing the player.
This would be no big deal, if it was not for the fact that the game often throws three identical enemies at you, with the only difference between them being that on has a gun, which you destroy within the first 5 seconds due to it being a massive threat.
Generally, overly confusing shit like this is not fun to have to deal with.

Variety is also important, here at /v/, we have the privilege of having known about AoS before it went full reddit.

Early AoS, there was a clear difference between the two teams' situation, while not making the PLAYERS any different.
The gameplay was simple, there was one weapon, and if you died, it's because you fucked up.
There was a lot of strategies you and your team could pull, for both sides.

NOW, on the other hand, every server is a symmetrical map, it's just a deathmatch.
A deathmatch is in no way what made AoS good or fun, I, and many others, will just fire up quake if we want a deathmatch.

You also have TF2's massive strength, teamwork.
No matter your style of playing games, you can pick up TF2, and most likely do well in at least ONE class, and you will also have fun, because you're accomplishing something, you can see that your team benefits from your work.

You simply need to know what your game's strength will be, and build around that, avoid the player feeling like he's not in control of his environment in any way, and tone down random, punishing events.

where da dubs at?

>>116498926
THIS

>>116498939
thats why shit like "im going to preorder and have fun with it" is retarded

>>116498976
Then why bother talking about video games on the internet?

>>116498976

If you don't like /v/, leave. It's that simple. If you don't want to get huttburt, go to gamefaqs.

Having fun is like porn. I know it when I see it.

>>116498540
So videogames are 100 % subjective?

I DONT THINK SO!

>>116497206

Well, anger does give you something of a rush, combined with the frustration is drives you to advance, and when you finally make progress you experience catharsis, with the cathartic release growing in proportion to how pissed off you got before that point.

So, I don't think it's weird at all. Might not be terribly healthy, though.

>tell someone Game X is fun
>they have no prior opinion on Game X
>they consider it

>tell another person that Game X is fun
>they have their mind made up, they hate Game X
>they disregard it

Then again, you can't fill a cup that's already full.

>>116498976
you sound mad as fuck child. go back to gamefaqs.

if not dubs, no more dubs itt

>>116499146
That depends on the pressure inside the cup.

>>116499076
I dont usually debate on the internet. I go into threads where people aleady have formed opinion of the game.

>>116499023
here?

>>116499113
Considering how that person compared beauty to video games, then yes, 100%.

>>116498926
This.

Nobody can dispute your personal enjoyment of a game, a piece of artwork, milk, whatever.

When it comes to an actual metric of quality however, even talking subjectively, using "fun" is pretty terrible.

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>>116499222
THERE GOES THE THREAD

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NIGGA YOU KNOW WHAT

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good now we can get rid of this shit thread.

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>>116499206
So basically you're completely unable to partake in a critical discussion on the internet and can only converse with other people who share your exact same perspective.

I feel sorry for you bro.

>>116499100
>>116499076
>The only form of discussion is debate and arguing

>>116499076
To talk about games I like with other people who also enjoy the game or genre? Maybe? I think that might be it.
>>116499100
Been here far too long. Not mad at all, just presenting my thoughts on the subject.
>>116499162
>Make argument.
>Mad
Uh huh...

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>>116499222
sweet trips bro

I think a fun game, is one where it is crazy and chaotic. Dying so fast. Learning how to get better with each death.

smash bros., Tf2, ssf4.

fun. thread?

Be Calm and All The Pretty Girls > Everything else

>>116499418
Debate > mindless praise

Whatever happened to just discussing games because you like them? Now we have to argue why we like something. Dayum shame.

>>116499454
like dubs fighter 4?

>>116499015
>make wall of text post about my thoughts on the thread's topic
>thread bursts into doubles seconds later

>no one will ever read and comment on my thoughts

alright guys, keep'em coming.

>>116499514
sorry had to do it.

>>116499222

These threads are fun.

>>116499505
Are we only supposed to discuss games we enjoy?

That's pretty close minded.

>>116499411
Uhh, I'm not excited about Skyrim and dont really bother visiting Skyrim threads because frankly I dont give a fuck. I do visit SC2 threads because I like the game.
I'm not unable to partake in critical discussion, where did I imply that? I just dont give a fuck.

>>116495047
>I don't really need to justify my opinions to you guys.
That's the fun part, this is a board for and about vidya enthusiasts. If you don't wanna discuss video games you are horribly wrong here.
Also no one cares this is not your blog.

>>116499476

>mfw i listening to fun. right now

>>116499514
No one would have anyway. Learn the value of brevity.

>>116499411
>critical discussion
yeah, no.

That's not what happens here. A "discussion" on /v/ is like a bunch of apes throwing shit at each other.

God fucking damn it, /v/

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>>116499555
No but this is how arguments go.
>Your game is shit.
>Well I like it.
>Yeah enjoy your shit bro.

>>116499555
I'd rather have that then barge into threads about CoD and shitblast everyone for liking it.

pic related

Happens in pretty much every thread now

over the top shit like dual shotguns and semi large maps with decent sniping and no buildings everywhere and very large maps + taking a while to kill someone + teamwork. All of which neither MW3 or BF3 have and thats why they are both shit and im back to league of legends and minecraft

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It just makes me think, why the jobs in shenmue where fun, when actual work is pretty shitty to do. It's fun because you don't have to put much effort into it and you maybe havent done it before. Something that makes no fun could be, because you have done it several times or its just to hard for you.

Let me think outside of the vidya. Don't you think once you've done sex with cocaine that normal sex is good? No, its shit, because there is something much better, drugged sex.

Explained by the worker class. Suck that college fags!

>>116497691
Stop drinking that swill they sell in the grocery stores. Also, if you think beer is too bitter than you're probably too young to be on 4chan. Once you get older you'll understand.

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>>116499555

VIDEO GAMES ARENT FUN. ITS JUST PUSHAN THE BUTTANS!
DO YOU THINK PUSHAN THE BUTTANS IS FUN!? IF YOU DO YOU'RE RETARDED!

>>116499582
>I'm not unable to partake in critical discussion, where did I imply that?

>Like I want to explain shit to you assholes just to disregard anything I say.

I mean, it's pretty obvious dude.

It's fine if you don't want to partake in discussion of games you don't give a fuck about, but if you're implying that you only give a fuck about games you enjoy then you're either a moron or a liar (probably the latter)

>>116499657
>Well I like it.

It's been mentioned before that isn't a valid argument to why a game is good. "I like it" or "It's fun" are really just cop out statements to why a game isn't shit.

>>116499679
Sorry, but that's not how the real world works.
You're severely delusional if you think this would be a better place if people only talked about shit they liked ad nauseum.

>this thread

>>116498597

You probably like the flavor and texture because they're fun.

>>116498926
>I like this game because it's fun

But that's not an argument at all, it's just a (redundant) statement.

>>116499024
>thats why shit like "im going to preorder and have fun with it" is retarded

I think you're just arguing about semantics, here.

>>116499903
oh here's more.

Minecraft

>>116499888
>It's been mentioned before that isn't a valid argument to why a game is good. "I like it" or "It's fun" are really just cop out statements to why a game isn't shit.


Sorry, retarded mob mentality != fact

>Sorry, but that's not how the real world works.


Ok, now you're just being a retard

>>116499999

>>116499888
Give me one valid arguement to why a game is good.

>>116499679
Shitblasting MW3 threads should be done by every /v/irgin actually. Im fact it should be mandatory.
You can ruin the vidya as long as you want but don't expect us to let it happen in here uncommented. If you want to circle jerk with other retards (everyone knows that it's just fapping about loadouts since 4 years) there are better suited fanboy sites for that.

>>116499608
I actually make a point out of reading the longer posts in threads, since they're often more thought out than the one liners and "no it's shit" posts /v/ gets.

This thread has gone full retard though, so I'm out

>>116499936
>But that's not an argument at all

People have been using it as an argument for ages. Including in defense of video games on /v/.

There are people who truly believe that liking something is an automatic qualifier to a good game, when it really isn't.

This discussion has been meaning to happen for a few days now. You could feel it brewing. Damn, i've gotta get outside more.

Game is fun to me if it presents a significant challenge (in terms of effort/time/skill/reflexes/reading opponent) while providing the tools for the player to overcome that challenge.

The fun stems from overcoming a challenge.

This is why I hate sandbox games. I don't like coming up with my own challenges.

A game can be FUN to you, but because a game is fun to you does not make it a good game.

>Fun is subjective
>Good is objective

In that regard, I have seen a lot of FUN movies, but I know they are not good films. An example is Napoleon Dynamite. It was FUN to me, but I know it is a shitty movie if you see it in an objective way.
The same way I could have FUN with MW1/2/3, but I know it is a shitty game.
The conclusion is that my taste is bad in that regard. My taste is bad and should not be taken as a statement that has any value. It should be dismissed because it does not take the objectivity as the main point in arguing if the game is good or not. When you know the elements is worse in one game than in the other, yet I have more FUN with the lesser game, I have bad taste.
Good taste is bedder than bad taste.
The Conclusion is, that people sometimes(most of the time) have bad taste, but that does not make their opinion as a valid one, correct or taken into consideration. Only arguments that are based on objectively standards and not subjective can be seen as valid opinions, everything else should be disposed.

Sure is trips around here

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>>116500003
>Sorry, retarded mob mentality != fact

When did I ever even imply anything close to mob mentality? You should learn some reading comprehension. If anything, something like "everybody thiniks it's fun it so it's a good game" is really a retarded mob mentality argument.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

>Ok, now you're just being a retard

Yeah, nah. You're the retard if you believe people should only discuss things they like. We would be nowhere as a civilization if people refrained from critical discussion.

>>116500235
>>Good is objective

Wrong, good is what you perceive something to be. I.E. subjective

I'm not going to say I know the answer to this. What I will say, though, is that i'd much rather be talking about videogames with a bro that knows WHY he likes the games he likes instead of the douche bag he simply says "oh I donno its fun why you think deep bout games n shit?".

>>116499015
>TF2's massive strength, teamwork.
Babbies first class based shooter

>>116500050
If you need an example of a valid argument to why a game is good in order to comprehend why simply saying "I like it" isn't one then you seriously need to sit down and rethink your life.

>Your game is shit.
>Well I like it, BECAUSE i can do shit i never have done before
>Let me try that.

I like to take Modern Warfare 3 as example and the nice sentence, if you played one, you've played them all. It just CANT be fun for someone who has played it before or any other shooter, so saying MW3 is FUN is not an argument. And if you have never played any other games/shooters before MW3, you don't have the simple right to discuss it, because you lack of experience in that topic.

>>116500311
alright guy, just becuase you and a bunch of angry people think "its fun" doesn't mean anything doesn't mean its true

glad we got that out of the way

As for your "real world" bit, this is 4chan, we are discussing video games, there's no need to be shitty about things we don't like.

>>116500516
And just because you and a bunch of angry people think "its fun" DOES mean anything doesn't mean its true. How about them fucking apples?

Also you are using 4chan IN REAL LIFE, talking about video games with other REAL LIFE people with your REAL LIFE time. If you think that telling someone a game is bad is being "shitty" about it then I suggest finding a different website.

>>116500111
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>>116500111

So many trippppsss

Gamers/People that know the vidya = can define/analyze a game

Non gamers = It's fun/It's shit


We are only having this thread since days because we finally got to the bottom why /v/ is shit. It's because it consists to a very high portion of people that shouldn't be here in the first place.

>>116500664
Except that /v/ does not have civil, well thought out discussions about the merits in games or lack thereof.

We just throw shit at each other like a bunch of goddamn apes.

>>116500516
>>116500664

While it's true that it is vital to our social development to be thrust into situations and conversations we do not like, things such as the internet and social networking have made it so easy to escape from such situations and engross yourself in a subject you prefer that to actively seek out conflict in a place like 4chan, where you can act much differently than in normal, face-to-face society to begin with, is pretty much a moot point, I think.

Still, it is an interesting subject to bring up, and I'm not sure what the "right" way to handle it really is, here.

> If you think that telling someone a game is bad is being "shitty" about it then I suggest finding a different website.

It is being shitty, since you use the real life example so much. Try going up to people playing basketball and constantly telling them their favorite sport is shit, think you won't look like na asshole?

>>116500921
quote
>>116500664

>>116500775
I like how you said why /v/ got shit and i support that. See LoL threads. What actually should be common knowledge will be explained now: As LoL has a userbase that is by far more underage than any other userbase that big in any other online game you could assume that someone links them to /v/ or shows them /v/, or any meme/comic/template leaving /v/ about the game could possibly guide them to /v/, shitting /v/ up with a group of new gamers that only play LoL and are underage, posting that feel threads and others shit.

>>116500887
You have never been to a good /v/ thread.

While most of our threads are pretty much shit flininging, civil, well thought out discussions have actually taken place on /v/. Even if they are pretty rare.

Have fun all you want. I'm still going to call your game shit. You're not special. You don't deserve to not get your feelings hurt over a fucking videogame. Why do you care so much? Bunch of faggots. All of you.

>>116500775

I don't think that's true at all. I'm sure an older, wiser person who had never played a video game before could examine why they enjoy a game. It's not about whether or not you play games, per se, it's about critical thinking and analysis.

Of course, that's not to say that someone experienced with video games would not benefit from their knowledge in identifying trends, mechanics, or other game-specific details.

>>116500686

that pic

god my sides

>>116500921
Except it isn't.

A video game like Call of Duty is not comparable to a sport that has lasted for over a decade. I'm pretty sure the people who came up with.

Also we are (well, we're supposed to be) discussing video games on /v/, not actually playing them here. Talking about why basketball is bad in a discussion about basketball is not being "shitty".

People are going to criticize games you like on here. That's never going to go away, so either accept reality and deal with it or stay a delusional idiot.

>>116501422
Didn't finish my sentence
> I'm pretty sure people back in the 1800's had to face critism about the sport when they were first conceiving the rules of basketball.

ITT: analpained funfags

>>116501072
Actually in my opinion this "change of heart/userbase" has been going on since a long time. Ever since this gens consoles to be exact.
You don't need to be a rocket scientist to know why. Every nigger and his mom has a xbox at home but not everyone of them is an actual gamer. Quite the opposite.
I for example grew up with the vidya and the vidya with me. It's my oldest hobby and I really know what I'm talking about.
How could I have an actual discussion with a person that started playing FPS's for example with Modern Warfare or Halo?
It's an uneven ground, they plain don't know shit.
On the other hand there they are and don't want to feel excluded since they like playing their game. So they post in here, with all they got (it's not much). Of course their opinion is based on the fun they are having with their particular game, because they don't have any kind of experience in tis respective genre.

Personal appeal / opinion.

There, thread over.

>>116501611
dubs.

>>116501422

(Not the guy you responded to)

I think I get what you're saying. You're saying you should discuss all games critically, and talk about both the good and bad, right? But, would you agree that to go into a thread of people loving/hating on a game and then express your hate/love for it in an antagonizing way serves no purpose?

>>116499888
Saying a game is shit without an argument is a cop out as well. None of you fags ever have good reasons for hating on decent games beyond "I personally didn't like it".

Fun alone is a shitty metric to how good or bad something actually is.

Nobody actually cares whether or not you personally enjoyed it.

>>116501686
>Saying a game is shit without an argument is a cop out as well.
I never implied it wasn't.
> None of you fags ever have good reasons for hating on decent games beyond "I personally didn't like it".
That is literally retarded and you know it.

>>116501581

I usually never talk to my class mates about video games but when I do I only get depressed after listening to them for a while.

Just yesterday they were saying how BF3 was shit even though they haven't played it and were extremely hyped for MW3.

I tried to explain the difference between facts and opinions but it's no use. I'll just have to talk about cars or football in the future.

>>116501685
I'm saying people should be ALLOWED to discuss games crticily, without being chastized for "being shitty" or "hating on other peoples fun for no good reason" when you and I both know these are just retarded arguments.

Even in threads where the vast majority of posters have similar opinions (they all love or hate the game). If you can't handle antagonizing posters on 4chan, let alone the internet, then I don't know what to tell you to be honest.

>>116501092
I remember blood money threads for example. Or how did you people like the old Demon's Souls threads? I kinda miss them. I did not even visit the Dark Souls threads, because i did not buy it yet, but it just feels like they are forcing the people to create comics about the game and get it popular and make as much threads about it as possible and always be sure that there is one general in front of the page. I never had that feel when Minecraft and Monster Hunter were still regular here.

>>116501686

The fact that everyone will argue about how "it's fun" is a cop-out until they're blue in the face, but nobody will address the flip side of "it's shit", is really just indicative of the negativity pervading /v/ as a whole.