I prefered Angelus. There should have been more episodes with him.

Do they ever have an episode explaining his transition from Angelus to Angel? I know Angelus and Darla were together for like 150 year, and gypsies gave him his soul and all, but do they actually have an episode that focuses on that?

I really liked the Fifth season. I thought it was a very nice recovery after the train wreck of most of the Forth Season.

>>2563211
i think buffy went into that

>>2563215
Agreed 100%. Fourth season was utter shit, Cordelia pregnant with Connor's baby and the baby is evil and is actually Gina Torres... what the fuck, no. Just no. Possibly the worst season of any show I've ever seen. I don't remember it too well thankfully.

>>2563215
The Fourth Season was crappy, but you gotta admit, the three-parter with Faith was fucking awesome. And so was the episode "Spin the Bottle".

I've blocked most of this series from my memory.

>>2563243
>Possibly the worst season of any show I've ever seen.
You obviously don't watch much television.

I felt the same way at first, until I realized it only seemed really horrible because I compared it to the 2 seasons that came before it. When you compare it to all of television, it doesn't seem so bad.

I had a hard time dealing with Wesley becoming badass after seeing him as such a pussy on Buffy. Also, Cordelia's being pregnant with Angel's son's baby who happened to be a goddess that ate people was a little too out there for me, even for a series that dealt with the supernatural.

Other than that, I loved the show.

>>2563262
'Step away from the glass' is probably the best line of dialogue from the entire series. Just because of this simple scene, season 4 became awesome.

>>2563379
>>2563243
Honestly, I never thought it was that bad. I guess I just like the characters so much I can overlook a lot of mistakes on this shows part. But I did enjoy the whole "Angel and gang VS the world" kind of feel to season 4.

>>2563293
>You obviously don't watch much television.
Thanks for assuming shit about me bro, but I'll admit I exaggerated and have indeed seen worse now that I think about it.

>>2563243

Yeah, the fourth season was bad, but it gave way to the fifth season, which is potentially my favorite season of a television series ever.

So fucking good. Not to mention it had one of the best series finales of any show.

"You pissed in the big man's chair? That's fantastic!"
"Spike, can you please turn off that warm fuzzy."
"What, Lorne thing? Wore off. I just think that's bloody fabulous."

>>2563442
>Thanks for assuming shit about me bro
Hey, you were the one that said it. I suspected you might have been using hyperbole, I just wasn't sure.

Regardless, season 4 really isn't all that bad.

wait, how long was Angel on Buffy? I never watched any buffy except for like seaon 6 and 7

>>2563500

The first three seasons.

>>2563500

The first two seasons, I think? Two or three, I forget.

Season 3 is the best with Darla

The series finale was good.

Angel > Buffy

>>2563500
Emo.

>>2563243

The Angelus episodes were good, but the whole Jasmine thing was just fucking ridiculous.

Season 1>2>5>3>4

>>2563529

>Angel > Buffy

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

Will somebody pretty please explain to me just what was so wonderful about season five?

They wiped the slate almost completely clean, even to the point of actually erasing the memories of most of the characters, They pissed all over the original premise of the show -- the first half of the season was more like a generic legal drama than anything else. Most of the show's original character's were ignored in favor of tired ass, overexposed, should've-stayed-dead Spike. For whatever damn reason, they brought in that piece of shit Eve instead of bringing back the awesome Lilah.

And the finale was stupid. Blasphemy, I know, but it was. Instead of struggling to "fight the good fight," they indulged themselves in this over the top grand, suicidal gesture for what? Really, what? They weren't really going to destroy Wolfram & Hart all in one fucking night, and even if they did, they'd only leaving behind a power vacuum that'd soon be filled by some other threat. Fucking stupid.

>>2563683
what's the matter; too DEEP for you?

it was a non-formulaic way of ending, and it was AWESOME.

>>2563683
It had the episode "Hell Bound", one of the darkest Angel episodes of the entire run, not only that, but the villain was SIMON FUCKING TEMPLEMAN. He alone makes it the greatest season ever.

>>2563683

It was good. I enjoyed it. I'm sorry you didn't enjoy it, but you seem to be rather convinced that it wasn't good, so I don't find it to be worth my time to convince you otherwise.

Convincing requires an open mind, and a willingness to question your paradigm. If you really genuinely want to know why people like it, I recommend watching it again and trying to keep an open mind.

>>2563683
Well, you seem very butthurt about Spike, and that obviously is going ot make you hate half the season right off the bat. But that's your own problem for hating a good character, can't blame the show for it.

Connor boning Cordy and having a hellspawn wouldn't have been so creepy-- if you stopped to think about it Cordelia should only be a few years older than the teenaged Connor-- but Vincent Kartheiser just looked so much younger than Charisma Carpenter that it was just ugh. Fourth season is easily the worst.

Has anyone read the After the Fall comics? Are they worth it? Some of it seems interesting: Gunn becomes a vamp, Wesley's a ghost, Angel is mortal, Fred returns...

>>2563697
Thank you for insulting my intelligence instead of actually responding to my points. Very helpful.

Also, if they wanted a Wild Bunch style ending, they should've painted it darker. By which I mean, the characters' actions in that last episode were intended to be heroic, which is bullshit. In season two's Epiphanies episode, Angel tried to perform a similar grand suicidal gesture in an attempt to justify killing himself by doing so in a "heroic" manner. In the next episode after that, he acknowledged the wrongness and selfishness in what he was trying to do. The show developed an intriguing message at that moment: that struggling on and fighting the best you can is better than going out in blaze of glory. Something that Not Fade Away stomped all over.

And, if anything, I'd argue that instead of me being too stupid to appreciate season five, you people are too stupid to appreciate season four. Yeah, season four was ridiculous, soap opera-y, and filled with plot holes, but there were some fascinating over-arching themes in that season: the destruction of Angel's "family" paralleled by potentially apocalyptic events, as well as Jasmine's perverse attempt at creating utopia being the only thing that held everything together there for awhile.

Beyond me why people like five more than four. But then, I've always been weird.

>>2563803
Comics are shit. I'm basing that on the Buffy comics, I never saw the Angel ones

>>2563803

I loved that near wincest and the pedo nature of that sex. I was so turned on by it. Fapping material.

>>2563812
I am poster >>2563697

I happened to love season 4 and season 5... I thikn it was really one long super storyline (as whedon had the luxury to do back then) but I TOTALLY disagree with you about the heroic stand at the end of "not fade away"... the eps leading up to it even dealt with the dillema of going out with a bang, or keeping up the good fight.

I dunno, still seems like you did'nt even see it or you deliberately decided to dislike it; PERHAPS you were just mad at the show for ending and need a place to direct your rage... still think it might be too deep for ya! ;)

season 3 ending twist was predictable except for the whole Cordy becoming a higher power thing. Don't know about season 4 though from what I've been reading so far, I'll have to watch this shit and better not be disappointed from the direction it's going.

>>2563812
Yay, wall of text proving how intelligent and deep you while hypocritically insulting everybody else's intelligence. Good show, sir.

In all honesty, you make some good points but its not really my place to say anything since I haven't actually seen the whole show. All I know is I really enjoyed season 5.

>>2563812
i loved the themes in Season 4. I just felt like it had poor execution.

I think the thing I hated most about Not Fade Away is how Wesley didn't do ANYTHING. Okay, maybe he distracted the wizardy guy, but he didn't even get to kill any of the main bad guys like everyone else did. His death was cool, but it seems like the coolest character on the show (in my opinion) should've gone out with a kill.

>>2563838
I found their debating about whether or not to go through it unsatisfying. From a character perspective, it makes more sense to me that they wouldn't even consider the option had their circumstances not become so depressingly fucked. The finale would've been infinitely better had their deaths been painted as a sort of suicide-by-cop thing rather than as a heroic gesture. After what happened to Cordy and Fred, I could've bought that, but it's clearly not what the writers intended.

It's..mountain dew?

Wes is HOT!

>>2563875
Actually Angel let Lorne kill Lindsey because he knew that Lindsey wanted a cool death -meaning be killed by Angel, not a green sidekick.

That was smart. :)