Hope you have some sort of highly skilled degree because you can't just move to these countries.

>>93809

Seriously? Is that always the rule, or are there exceptions (like marriage)? Because otherwise, I'm fucked.

join the french foreign legion

Go to the country whose food you like the best. Culture is usually awesome regardless of where you go for it, so you should decide based upon what you're going to be eating for the next however many years.

>>93810
You can try and find someone to marry you in the short time you'll get on a tourist visa/visit but unless you're from France/Germany or a country in the European Union, it's fucking hard to get a job. If you don't have a degree, forget about it.

lol at americans who just assume you can move to these countries. All western EU nations have really anal immigration laws, just like the US does. Unless you're an arab, of course.

>>93811
>french forgein legion

Hadn't even considered that, but I'm kinda scared of warfare. (Do they even accept women?)

I'm not too picky about food, though German food is supposed to be super heavy. I doubt that would prove too much of a problem, however. Thanks for the info.

>>93812

Shit. Sure, I could probably find someone online who'd agree to marry me beforehand, but not only would that be illegal, it'd probably end in a murder-suicide or some crap.

It's been my dream to move out of the states since I was a kid. I know you're talking sense, right. I get that. I just don't want to forget about it because I don't have a degree. What if I moved to the U.K. first? Is it easier to get in there?

>>93818
Unfortunately for you, it's men only.

Your best bet is to try and find some loophole that could get you naturalization. I think Ireland at one point had a deal where if your grandparent was Irish you could get Irish citizenship. Look around at different countries in the EU that you could possibly qualify in, even if it means putting your dream on hold for 5-10 years more.

Also, start lurking on multinational language learning forums and try to get someone interested in having you visit them. This, of course, requires you to put out and be reasonable looking.

>>93818
The UK has hardly any jobs as it is. No degree = nothing. I'd advise applying for University in one of your countries of choice, as that's a quick path to residence and citizenship. France lowers the requirement by a few years if you have studied in France before. Germany won't let you get German citizenship without giving up your US one first.

Like I said before, a lot of countries (Ireland, for example) have a strict set of rules to follow for work visas. First they have to prove that no Irish citizen can do the job, next they have to prove no EU citizen can do the job (There's 500 million of us to choose from), then they move onto everyone else. It's insanely difficult to get a job in the EU unless you have a science degree of some sort or are from another EU nation.

one little mistake. the picure shows spain and france

Sorry, this kind of reeks of sheltered basement dweller.

Deary, you can't just escape to another country, especially legitimately for the rest of your life.

Whatever you're grossly unhappy with, you'll have to deal with within your country first.

But by all means, don't let a really thick level of bureaucracy deny you of this dream. Infact, I would go as far to say as it's a very realistic dream, but you would need to go ahead and look at their immigration websites and research your options, even talk to an immigration lawyer.

- language

French: a bit hard to start with. still hard when you're intermediate
Useful language, as it is spoken in half of Africa and it's always classy to say you can speak french.
German: very hard to start with. Gets easier once you've gotten the hang of it, since there are less exceptions and unlogical things than in french.
I'd say german is a bit less useful than french as a language.

Result: tie

- Cost of living:
In French, food is a bit more expansive, but the quality is also much better. In germany you can eat for less money, but if you want the same quality than in France its gonna cost you more. But, as an american, it is rather unlikely you'll notice any difference.
In France, internet is cheaper than in germany. For 30 euro you get the highest available bitrate (even FTTH in those towns where its available) PLUS illimited calls towards fixed networks of over 50 countrys. Hard to beat that.
Mobile telecommunication might be a bit cheaper in germany, it's also a different way to calculate it.
Bars: germany wins. French bars are very expansive, particularly so in bigger cities.
Rents: depends on the towns. Germany is known to have very few small appartments available. You might be better off either sharing a flat or renting a room inside someone elses house.
France has more of a problem that law is complicated and they ask you for lots of "credentials", like how many do you earn, pay 3 months in advance, etc.... In paris its very expensive, on the countryside its cheaper than germany. So it depends

Result: i'd say Germany wins, but it depends on the situation.

>>93927
continued

People: french are not as nice as they could be, especially in Paris. It's hard to get to know people better if they're just your neighbours or you meet them randomly. But there are LOTS of foreigners. Outside of paris people are more friendly than any countryside german will ever be, at least that's my experience. In germany people have a very strict privacy line, like they will never invite you to their homes or something, but that's maybe not so flagrant with younger people.


Anyway, it's your choice. Ask more specific questions, maybe..

As for immigration, you do need a job or something. Just like when you move to the us. Wake up.

I'm a eurofag myself, saw this picture on the frontpage by chance. I'm Dutch myself, and yeah, I don't think Americans are going to be immigrating here anytime soon. This is not ment as condescending, because it's about true, but a community college in the U.S. is equal to finishing the last 2 years of high school here. And let me tell you, no one with a high school degree will get anything even resembling a job here. I'm currently working my way through college myself. It's 1500€ a year, excluding books, however everyone gets a certain amount of money per month while they're in college, depending on parents' income, living at home/on your own, extra loan, and other circumstances. So, if you do find a loophole, you should definitely start an education here, it's basically free considering the grants you get.
Anyway, as for the country, I can tell you that as a Dutchfriend who has no discernable accent when speaking English(meaning I sound californian for being a hikki playing WoW for 5 years getting my only social interaction from ventrilo with californians), the French treated me like dirt. Germans are a much nicer people, and the country is much less expensive too. The language is easier, the roads are better, the only thing you'd really miss in Germany is the weather in Southern France. You could always vacation there if you really wanted to, though.
But hey, if you're desperate to find a loophole, let's just get hitched! Not so bad in the Netherlands either, legal weed broski! And like, hella socialism.

>>93926
this. i'm sick of these morons being 'unhappy' with where they're living and thinking they can just up and leave to some other country where things would be 10x harder for them. grow the fuck up.

::sigh::
i hate this board

Why is it that you want to move out of the US in the first place, OP?

You can have both
go to Alsace

>>93999
THIS THIS THIS THIS

Germany > France

But neither is going to take an uneducated American.

>>93808
I can't tell you much about France, but I'll tell you some things I know about the Germans.

In Germany it really depends where you live.

In the Northwest you have friendly people. You have big cities like Hamburg, Bremen and Hanover which are basicly like the average bigger city in the US. All kinds of ethnic groups and therefore friendly to foreigners. The cost for living are mediocre to low, depending if you're living in Hamburg or on the country side. Unfortunately besides the Ocean there isn't much so see.

In the West we have the large urban areas with big cities like Cologne, Bonn, Essen and Düsseldorf. The people ther can be compared to New Yorkers: mostly arrogant and unfriendly, but sometimes (during Karneval) they show their friendly side. Also those areas are very Turk infested and crime rates rose drastically in last 5 years (but still nothing to worry about compared to the US)

>>94017
In the South we have the "hillbilly" States of Baden-Würtemberg and Bavaria which are more or less like you Americans imagine Germany to be. Nevertheless those 2 states have the least unemployment, crime rates and economic problems in the whole country. The bigger cities are Stuttgart, Munich and Nuremberg. Very costs of living down there. Besides the bigger cities those states are very old fashioned and people seem to be unfriendly, but after some time living there you'll realise that it's just their way of live. There you'll find the Lederhosen, Bier festivals etc.
I personally prefer those 2 states because the people are very honest, they're not so Turk infestedand the weather is fine too. Warm in Summer, Snow in Winter.

In the middle of the country there is, well Frankfurt but that's it. The rest is mediocre to live. I haven't been there but what I've heard it's dead boring.

In the east you have the, well "poor" parts of Germany. Can be considered Nazi country. High unemployment rate, lots of unsatisfied people and ugly soviet style cities. Cities worth living in are Berlin and Dresden. Every German I've met there cried about how bad it is to live there and how fucked up everything is. People are always in a bad mood, unfriendly and even hostile towards foreigners. Germans from other parts of the country told me to stay away from the east and they were right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxtL8gfsojg&feature=PlayList&p=743AB83AE5B16DD3&playnext=
1&index=12
Contemporary German Music, filmed in the vicinity of Giessen.
Srsly op, don't come here.

>>93826

Yeah they still have it.

But I heard Germany has a huge right of return policy, mainly because most Germans 50 years ago weren't born in today's borders and mass amounts of people were forced to flee in the 40's for some reason.

>>94028
That was for the ethnic Germans living in the then Soviet sphere of influence, who got expelled because the Czechs and Poles got butthurt after WW2.
Its still used to immigrate to Germany by Kazakh-Germans(I'm not making this up, German settlers in Russia got relocated to Kazakhistan by Stalin) however, the german government doesn't recognize their education and so they're forced into shitty jobs/unemployment.

Southern France. Better food, weather and nature.

>>94030

Does it apply to half of America though?

>>94035
Only if OP is a second or third generation refugee.

>>94033

Polishfag here who lived in southern France for some time (Foix, you can't get much more southern than that). The nature is nice, I agree, but it's like a huge retirement house, especially in the countryside.

itt basement dwellers who will never leave their home.

[esp op]

>>94052
Non-Americanfag here but I have to say that you almost can't fault the USA for having a worse overall education system. They have the third largest population in the world and almost four times the population of Germany, the most populated EU country.

>>93939
>the roads are better,
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
U

France probably has the best roads in the world, you moron.
The only problem is you have to pay to get on the highways.

english is basically bastardized and breeded german, you would understand or be able to deduce the meanings of about half the words used in normal conversation.

>>94069
i think he meant the notorious autobahn where people can race the hell out of each other.

Hey OP, I'll marry you. I live in the UK though.

But basically, what you wanna do is decide on a country, then go study there and get a degree.

Or you could live there illegally. S'up to you.

What's great about these threads is they immediately decide they want to move out of America when their landmass is equal to Europe. Move to a DIFFERENT part of America if you want to move that badly. No need for visas, same country, etc.

People from Germany aren't French so that would be a good reason to pick Germany.

(haven't spent very long in either country but that's my 2 cents)

>>94101
True, hell even within Texas there's a huge range of climate/population density/culture.

>>94105
Agreed. Although saying this I'm a UK/US Citizen so I have multiple choices of where to live or work. Winner!

>>93808
Germany, the music is better.
French are bunch of snobby pricks.

I'm a Canadian citizen doing premed, who will at least graduate with a science degree. What are my chances of being accepted into the EU after I'm done with school?

Also how are Candian doctors viewed?

>>94110
Do your Doctorate in a good Canadian uni then apply, good chance of being accepted.

>>94110
Like someone said before, you only get a job if there is no EU citizen that can't do the same job, with the same qualification. So if you just finish with a mediocre degree don't even think of coming over here.

>>93818
>>93818
I know a girl from brazil who speaks english, she moved to London,
basically for a year,
and now its been two years shes working there,
making friends, starting a new course, I hope she gets degrees etc
She told me it wasnt hard to get a little job as bartender etc.

>>94228
>girl from brazil
>it wasnt hard to get a little job as bartender etc.
For her it wasn't, of course.

>>93808
Why is your post-image about Spain and France,
while you ask germany etc?

Also, why do you ask anonymous people who have 75% chance to be trolls?
I suggest you ask on registering forums etc.

>>94230
Go on?

>>94013
lol @ no arguments.
Argh ive been trolled.

>>94070
Only that you don't care shit about declensions and conjugation so that even if you understand the words you could not really make sense out of them.

>>93999
>>93999
Agreed, Alsace-Lorraine/Elsass-Lothringen is the part
half-german, half-french.
Special culture here, many people speak both languages
and usually dont have problems with english, obviously.

Get some information off the net and books,
but before you decide where to LIVE, (regardinthe fact hat youre 20),
why dont you travel with parents and friends first, OP?

>>94237
Who cares? Mecklenburg-Vorpommern and Schleswig-Holstein
belong to Denmark anyway.

>>94239
And the whole east to Poland and the Czech rep. and Bavaria to Austria.

>>94249
Exactly.

Hold on guys...Germany does not exist !
OP, France is the way to go.

>>94037
>African American 8.8%
wat

>>94238
Could be best of both world, could also be worst of both.
OP won't be too happy about needing to learn french AND german. haha

>>94254
lrn2read graphs

>>94238

I spent a few years as a kid in the Lahr (Germany) area (amy brat) and I loved it. Visited this summer for the first time since I lived there. Awesome area.

Loved the Alsace. It was like 15 minutes away from 'home'.

>>94291
>>94264
Is OP still reading anyway?

Good advices you all
I live in the Alps, my fav part of Europe
are the northern countries

wat

>>94295
lamp.

>>94292
no, OP is a faggot who will never leave his basement

I am not OP but I have a few questions.

I am looking at doing my University abroad, hoping for England(Kings London/Oxford Brooks/St Andrews)
I plan to go into Finance, Be an Accountant fag.
What is the likely hood of myself getting a UK Visa and working in the country once I am done my degree?
As far as highschool goes I have gone to two of the best Private schools in Canada and am Finishing now at a smaller private school that also has a very good reputation abroad(we have students from asia/southamerica/england/monaco(no joke)) so I think I have a pretty good chance at getting into a English school.
Any advice on this/help would be awesome!
Also if I manage to get a UK visa that will in effect be a EU visa and ill be able to work anywhere in the EU correct?

OP is either a shittroll or totally retarded. Stop feeding retarded trolls.

>>I am looking at doing my University abroad, hoping for England(Kings London/Oxford Brooks/St Andrews)
I plan to go into Finance, Be an Accountant fag.

Hope you got good grades and a lot of money to study abroad.

>>What is the likely hood of myself getting a UK Visa and working in the country once I am done my degree?

You can work upto a year after your degree finishes if you have a job offer and then if you want to stay longer your company will either really want to keep you and sponsor you and you'll have to be approved which will be hard.

>>Also if I manage to get a UK visa that will in effect be a EU visa and ill be able to work anywhere in the EU correct?

Wrong. You need citizenship of an EU country not just a visa for one of the countries. Hope you enjoy doing 4 years of university (which doesn't count towards citizenship residence) then another 5 to get your citizenship in the UK (which takes around another 6 months to approve anyway) before you can work anywhere in the EU.

>>93808
>I've narrowed it down to either Germany or France. I don't speak either language and I know about as much of their cultures as you would expect a 20yr old Amerifag to know.

OP made me lol. Then how has he narrowed it down to those two? Lolwut.

>>94264
I know Alsace pretty well and it is indeed the best of both world.

ausfag here, but because I was born in Europe (and thus have a passport) I can go over and work anytime.

sux2bu:)

>>94889
Liar here,
im australian and I prefer the skincancer-infected,
rubbish-cultured island than the good ol'motherland.

>>94889
Born in America
Dad is Canadian/British
Mom is New Zealander/Australian

4 passports of 4 of the best countries in the world. Beat that ^_~

You dont know anything about the culture, yet you would happily move halfway across the world to live there?

You don't have to decide. If you can move to EU you can live anywhere. If you don't like some place, move.

>>94963
you can't have 4 passports. double nationality is the maximum allowed

Join the Frensh Foreign Legion - You will learn the language and obtain citizenship + new identity(if you want to). Also there will be happy times with alot of traveling/seeing alot of nature and stuff

>>95968
OP is a girl. french legion is not going to happen

>>94963
easy, Irish passport :D
(could also get the uk, jamacian and possibly the NZ one too if I got around to it)

Anyway The passport order is
Irish
Swiss
Scandanavian
Average western eu one

>>94239
fuck off

>>95968
but you might get fucking killed

and its horrible regardless

Good luck getting citizenship in any country for no good reason.

>>96097
> its horrible regardless
better than serving for US army in iraq

>>94493
>Also if I manage to get a UK visa that will in effect be a EU visa

No it won't. The UK is not in the Schengen zone.

>>95860
Wrong, since I have 4 passports.

>>96388
you can have 4 passports, but it's just not legal in any decent country.

>>96397
Since when do cosmopolitan Jews care about decency ?

>>96375
What the fuck are you talking about, of course it is. Is this some sort of weak-ass troll?

>>96418
It was not a couple of years ago.

Not that guy BTW.

>>96418
No, it isn't in the Schengen zone. The UK is part of the Common Travel Area with Ireland, but not the Schengen zone. See picture, the UK and Ireland only have police and judicial cooperation, not free travel.

>>96397
So the USA, UK, Australia and Canada aren't decent countries? Guess I'm breaking the law with my 4 legal passports for those countries and travelled to them multiple times with no problems!

>>96425
That's nice but UK citizens have unlimited access to all European Union countries so if that isn't "free travel" I don't know what is.

>>93808

Travel to France, they said.

>>96444
>UK citizens
You're missing the point. Non-EU citizens, which is what someone visiting Europe would be, need separate visas for the UK and the Schengen zone.

>>96527

Not with an australian passport sorry. Check your facts

>>96531
That's because Australian citizens do not need visas for either. Use your brain bozo, it goes for those who need visas for the UK and the EU, in that they can't get a visa for one and freely travel into the other.

>>96531
that's because you don't need a visa at all.

>>96418

Why hello there, you must be American.

>>96531
You're a fucking idiot. If you enter the Schengen zone on an Australian passport you have visa-free access for upto around 90 days or so before you have to leave. You can cross the borders in the Schengen zone, i.e. France to Germany without border control. You can't enter France, get your passport stamped then enter the UK without going through UK passport control. You can however enter Germany without the passport control. This is true for UK citizens too, you still need to go through passport control coming back to the UK from Europe.

>>95971
How does Ireland, Jamaica, NZ and UK beat US, UK, Canada and Australia?

fuck you /b/tards!

OP STILL THERE?

this shit

i suggest you join the US army, get stationed in germany, desert once you are here and apply for asylum.
deserters can receive capital punishment and as your live is threatened you have the right for asylum according to german law.
of course you could never go back to the US

>>97945

don´t know if anyone is still reading the thread but here´s an article about an american soldier seeking political asylum in germany

>The problem is... I don't know where I want to go.
Entry level troll/basment dweller.

People are idiots.

America is one of the most varied countries in the world. If you hate how stupid America is, move somewhere else.

Also, turn off your fucking tv. TV features nothing but stupid people because it entertains stupid people and people like you who get off on being better than the stupid people you see on tv.

Also, you're 20. You are pretty much worthless to other countries, France is full of 20 year olds who hate the USA.

I'm american and I've lived in Europe for 9 years including Germany and the Netherlands.

It will never be easy for you. Period. You cant just show up and work. Germany, France and most of Europe for that matter have huge employment problems.

It's hard enough for a German or Frenchman to get a job they like that's permanent, so unless you're a PhD or an expert in a small field, you're probably gonna be told to GTFO. They have to hire a local before they hire you.

On the other hand, you have the romantic visions of a perfect world abroad that will be absolutely shattered. You think its bad because you're 20 and still working at McDonalds and making $200 a week.

In western Europe income tax is at right about ~49-51% for single people.

That's just income tax. Try buying a Range Rover in the Netherlands. You'll pay a 34,000 euro tax bill ALONE. A ford Ka (probably equivelant to a GEO metro) costs over 1000 euro in luxury tax alone, not to mention sales tax, etc.

Gas is about 1 euro 50 cent a liter in Europe, and about 50 euro cents a liter in America.

In Europe if you're not known in the town they're just gonna stair at you not talk to you.

If you're in a store and you hit closing time (5-6 pm outside large cities), they will promptly tell you "We're closed, you need to leave".

Order something and they bring the wrong order, you're very likely to get "That's okay, this is good too, enjoy"

So you think you'll come over to this wonderful society and all is well. They have problems too, and these problems will be worse for you, as you're an outsider and not only do you expect a dream world and that will fail miserably, but also you're chances of success are minimal, and you're going to have a whole new list of new problems on top of new everything to learn.

Good luck. I'm moving back to the US after 9 years and it's going to be a bit foreign to me too.

>>97993
Quote:
They have to hire a local before they hire you.

Nope, that's not correct. Any german company can employ any person of any nationality without having to check first for national workers. I own a german company and I know.

Also.... this pretty much sums up Germany acurately.

One woman and alot of gay dudes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVBvpMW2tF4

>>97993
This guy is basically right, but then every place has pros and cons. Maybe just the place being different gives you enough motivation, though.

Just some comments on the numbers:
> income tax is at right about ~49-51%
No quite, the highest MARGINAL tax bracket in Germany is 45% I think, so depending on your income, you'll be much lower. There's (also depending on your income) compulsory social security (health insurance, unemplyoment...), though, so your disposable income might well be 50% or less.

>Gas is about 1 euro 50 cent a liter in Europe
Down to 1,10 in Germany last week and you might note that distances are usually much shorter, and public transport is more available and "acceptable" to use as compared to the US

However, I figured out by quick reading that OP reason to move aren't monetary.

>>97999

Who cares about the exact amount, its still high as shit.