Some are older than the others.

Old School rpgs are about dungeoneering and survival.

Modern rpgs are about having superpowers.

>>9595036
/thread

>>9595035

This man has the right of it. Some are indeed older than others.

Modern RPGs are good.

Old school RPGs are old. Modern RPGs are not.

In old RPGs we roleplay. In newer ones we hit stuff with sticks.

>>9595058
>implying the system used determines quality of roleplay

Because god hates homosexuals

>>9595036
>>9595042
>>9595058

Maybe if D&D is the only RPG you've ever even heard of, you faggots.

>>9595081
Okay then. "Old School" rpgs are Kevin Siembeida or Raven McCracken spewing the setting equivalent of diarrhea all over a festering, overcomplicated rule set. "Modern" rpgs are designed to appeal to the only people who still play them: Furries and perverts.

>>9595104
I WONDER IF I'M BEING TROLLED

old school rpgs are played by neckbeards, modern rpgs are played by power gamers with gender dysphoria

>>9595119
IF YOU'RE PLAYING 4E YOU'RE THE ONE TROLLING YOURSELF

>>9595036

So is this game a modern RPG, even though it was published 20+ years ago?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_Super_Heroes_(role-playing_game)

>>9595143
>implying I didn't just imply that I don't play D&D

>>9595161

>4e 4e 4e 4e 4e 4e 4e 4e 4e 4e 4e 4e

>>9595127
So true

>>9595104
>Kevin Siembeida
>overcomplicated rule set
Son, you must suck at learning rules cause Palladium games were easy as fuck to play.

>"Modern" rpgs are designed to appeal to the only people who still play them: Furries and perverts.
NEWSFLASH: We were perverts back then too.

>>9595152
it had an overly complicated rule set, so it was the exception

They say RPGs used to be more focused on simulation than on gameplay. They also say the older games didn't conduct to roleplay enough, I think this second affirmation came from WoD fans in the nineties. But I really don't know shit and can't tell you if any of these statements is true or if there even is a significant switch in game styles chronologically or it just happens to be that some games come out after others.

>>9595190
we played female characters back then too

>>9595193
>Palladium
>not overcomplicated

What.

This thread is so troll infested I don't even.

ITT the same kind of fags that say that new videogames are inherently worse than old videogames.

Leaving the thread before someone trolls this post.

>>9595208
>They say RPGs used to be more focused on simulation than on gameplay.
D&D has never been about simulation.
The playing styles and mentality encouraged by the books differ wildly in some ways in the older stuff as compared to now.

And for non D&D stuff... Well Classic Traveller is still the best Traveller.

>>9595208
I think I see what you are trying to say, but simulation IS gameplay. I think you're trying to say 'streamlined and ease of use' over simulation.

>>9595236
Personally I don't agree with this statement. There are a lot of good and shitty old games, just as there are good and shitty new games.

>>9595236

Oh, fuck you. I just happen to prefer 2D games, and they don't make as many as they used to.

....

I like modern RPGs though.

>>9595231
go back to BESM

>>9595250
Classic D&D was about stuff like this, rather than special attacks and feats and stuff. It was about having a fairly mundane set of abilities (wizards notwithstanding) and then using them to best effect.

The primary difference between old school and modern RPGs is that the arrival of video games means there are much easier ways of getting your power fantasy and simulation sperging on these days, meaning RPGs now primarily appeal to those who care about the plot and social aspects.

>>9595271
yeah, 2D games are awesome

I think the quality of game mechanics has actually improved. As the hobby gets older, game designers have more past examples to steal from, more experience of what works and what just slows things down.

As for the general quality of games, I think the idea that old games were better is caused by a simple cognitive error: you remember the good stuff and forget the mediocre stuff. You remember the stories you made with your friends, but you forget the time spent in rules arguments and trying to figure out poorly-organized rulebooks with no indexes. So you remember Dark Sun, but you forget the generic, shitty D&D imitators.

As for which I prefer... while some systems are better than others, the people you're playing with are far more important. I don't care whether we're playing Dark Heresy, AD&D, or Bunnies and Burrows, as long as we can get Dave to DM.

>>9595293
>meaning RPGs now primarily appeal to those who care about the plot and social aspects
I want to believe this is true.

>>9595293
>the plot and social aspects.
Despite what some of the "mature" and "sophisticated" gamers assert, roleplay was indeed a central feature of the AD&D game from the proverbial get-go. - Gary Gygax

The only difference I've noticed between now and then is that nowadays, slipping into someone else's skin and really RP'ing is more common. (at least for our group)

Pure problem-solving gameplay without too much RP used to be pretty common back in the day. I think this might have to do with overly high character death rates.

But then, this is a troll thread, isn't it?

>>9595309
I started playing AD&D 2E last year. It is by far my favorite Fantasy system.
Your argument is full of fail.

>>9595309
I think the nostalgia thing is a factor, but I also think the general feel of the game is a pretty big contributor to it, too. 3E and 4E have always been pretty over-the-top with giving players power fantasies, and have been rendered in a pretty extravagantly artistic style. 2E was always a lot more subdued and faux-realistic, even if that occasionally meant getting a piece of really terrible lineart or whatever.

>>9595309
GTFO, your post is making sense and does not involve any kind of trolling.

>>9595309
>As for the general quality of games, I think the idea that old games were better is caused by a simple cognitive error: you remember the good stuff and forget the mediocre stuff. You remember the stories you made with your friends, but you forget the time spent in rules arguments and trying to figure out poorly-organized rulebooks with no indexes. So you remember Dark Sun, but you forget the generic, shitty D&D imitators.
You underestimate the power of fa/tg/uys to remember shit to complain about. Your argument is invalid.

>>9595360
>even if that occasionally meant getting a piece of really terrible lineart or whatever.
I didn't think you were a troll until I read that.

can someone turn this into a trap thread?

>>9595396
Please don't, we're so close to having a real discussion.

Modern RPGs are about entitlement and player satisfaction.
Old school rpgs are about DM's VS the PCs.
It has nothing to do with when the books were printed.

>>9595396

>>9595407
fapfapfap

>Liking older system that are very different from the new stuff means it's all selective nostalgia. Even if you where recently introduced to it.
Trollercoaster trolling

>>9595407

>>9595406
>Old school rpgs are about DM's VS the PCs.
You have never played an "Old School" RPG.

>>9595387
I wasn't.

Older games made you work towards your goals.
Newer games hand them over just as easily as they hand over power.

>>9595396
Ah, traps. Traps are a glorious part of the RPG experience. Newer RPGs, although of course still have them, do not encourage their use as it once were.

>>9595433
that's 1st edition
>facepalm.jpg

>>9595407

Reverse traps are the best

This entire fucking thread is filled with idiots who have only ever played D&D and think it represents the hobby and it's evolution as a whole.

I'd stop to argue with all of you, but I think we all know you're all too retarded to understand the "high concept" of market diversity.

>>9595428
No anon, YOU have never played an old-school RPG. The rules are there to kill your character.

>>9595498
I remember back when she was popular

>>9595457
Fine.

>>9595346

Pretty sure I specifically mentioned AD&D as one I'd be up for playing. Not sure what you're upset about. Although I actually don't much like the mechanics; when it comes to low-power fantasy, I much prefer Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay.

A lot of people seem to be basing their arguments on the various versions of D&D, but there are at least a dozen games (old and new) that I'd rather play than any edition of D&D. Well, Dark Sun is kind of awesome. And I'm rather fond of Eberron. And Spelljammer, Spelljammer was good. And Planescape: Torment is one of the best vidya ever. So I guess I'm saying, bad mechanics, fun settings.

>>9595518
lolwut

>>9595507
>The rules are there to kill your character.
That's some mighty fine trollin' there son.

>>9595515
>>9595498
reverse traps are for fags

>>9595532
Clearly someone has never played Traveller.

>>9595501
HURR, I'ma gonna throw out generalized statemunts and run like da pussy

>>9595518
Sweet ass picture! What's its stats?

>>9595549
>Clearly, someone never played Call of Cthulu
Fix'd it for you

>>9595330

Of course the social and story-telling aspects of RPGs were always part of their appeal, I never said anything to the contrary. The difference is that thanks to new media, the social and story-telling aspects are now the primary part of their appeal, where when they were the only show in town it was more of a mixed bag.

>>9595551
>hurr, Ima hurr, durr

Riveting tale, chap!

>>9595538
>reverse traps are for fags
>fags want to fuck guys
I hate to break it to you kid, but you got it wrong there.

>>9595577
At least you have to start PLAYING to die in Cthulu.

>>9595549
>implying one option on a table that never hurt anyone means it's PCs vs DMs
Cool story, species in need of cleansing.

>>9595600
you totally missed the point

>>9595551
>generalized statemunts
>"Not every game is D&D, and it doesn't represent the entire market or it's evolution"
Tell me, what's it like having asperger's?

>>9595602
If a character 'dies' in creation, they were never made. Therefore they weren't played.

>>9595601
reverse traps dont have tits, fag

>>9595673
It's a lot like abortion,

>>9595671
I have no clue. What's it like living in denial and fail 24/7?

>>9595684
holy shit! you don't even know what a reverse trap is!!!

>>9595696
explanation works for me
meaning your character never died, you have to play first before it can die

>>9595700
>>9595644
Calm down, friend, clearly the subjects being discussed are... a little above your head.

Old school - 96 pages, text out to the margins, less money and space devoted to art $12

Modern rpgs : More art, more pages, more books more money

Some (many) modern games have learned from older systems and have rules that are less stupid.

Old Schoolers worshipped Satan
Modern RPGers worship GW and WoTC - and Tithe regularly!

>>9595036

this is pretty much it, "Fantasy Realism" vs "Fantasy Superpowers" take your pick, whatever

Ok. After perusing this thread, I think I can state what the difference between "old school" and "modern" RPG's.

"old school" RPG's were played by people who want to that they are superior.

"modern" RPG's are played by people who want to have fun.

>>9595839
So modern RPGs are a lot like fat chicks?

ITT edition wars in disguise (barely).

>>9595861

I rest my case.

>>9595937

So the difference is that the alien crab monster got bigger?

I love how, in a debate about the industry as a whole, nobody has mentioned a single non-fantasy game in this entire thread.

Replace every mention of "old school games" with "2e" and "modern games" with "4e and you'll see the true face of this thread as you read it.

>>9596020
Because there aren't a lot of games that have changed as much as D&D has. Traveller died out in its more recent edition (GALAXY-WIDE VIRUS), and most other games have stayed reasonably consistent.

>>9595937
god the 4e one is such shit. seriously, how the fuck did that art get approved!? wtf is wrong with WotC?

>>9596020

Traveller was mentioned multiple times. As well it should be.

For me, modern RPGs are just cleaner and have better technology to present their ideas. Previously, it was largely all done on typewriters or primitive word processors.

There has been some refinement as well in rules, but almost everything you see now you saw then too, except for maybe diceless systems, but I try to ignore those whenever possible anyway.

>>9595839
Old school players were playing what existed, I guess they couldn't have fun back then because the 'fun' games had not been created yet.

Old School games often did not try to be as complete, COC's encumbrance rules were, "GM should approve player's equipment ."

1st ed Gamma World's Campaign world was a blank hex grid.

>>9596042
We're not talking about how singular games have changed, though. We're talking about "old school games" and "modern games". There are tons of games that were created in the past that have made it to the present without much change, sure, but there are also a ton of games made very recently (and in fact the number of RPGs being made seems to be going up faster the longer the industry stays alive) that had no earlier "editions" or anything like that. Since we're talking purely about changes between old game design and new game design, I think it's safe to say that D&D is FAR away from being the only game that can be discussed here.

>>9596069
>Old School games often did not try to be as complete
Try making a ship in Old Traveller.

>>9595741
I'm okay with this description.

>>9595977

THE CRAB MONSTER! Don't you see!? It's LARGER in the PAST!

>>9596097
Except it's the most representative of any ostensible changes in the industry, and other examples (like Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay) largely mirror the changes in art design based on cues given by 3E/4E.

>>9595937
Awesome. I'm saving this picture to point out how deluded anti-4E people actually are. The really believe this. Meanwhile, the actual artwork is just as good as the old stuff.

But they see it as the denuded, poorly drawn doodles from the referenced post.

Awesome.

wait, there are rpgs other than d&d?

>>9596046

I have the 4e MotP sitting in front of me, and the art quality is fine. That guy just posted a terrible scan of the cover, either from malice or ignorance.

>>9596122
But they don't. While they represent the greatest money grabbers, they are not even close to the only RPGs out there; they're the most mainstream RPGs, and that does say something about how the hobby has developed, but I know almost nobody who plays just those two games. It's stupid to typecast the entire hobby on one or two games, no matter how much money they bring in. If it weren't, then I'm sure we could talk about how far the videogame scene has "fallen" while analyzing World of Warcraft and nothing else, talking about how "blase" and "repetitive" all videogames are now and how all game companies just leech endlessly off their sheepish target audience.
It's just. Plain. Not. True.
Games like Dogs in the Vineyard and Spirit of the Century have made a huge impact in modern traditional gaming; the more RPGs that come out, the more we see rules set down by early Dungeons & Dragons and GURPS being smashed to pieces or thrown out entirely.

I feel like everyone is being willfully blind, in here.

>>9595025
>possible picture of Gary Gygax
>Some fat neckbeard

Have some respect for the dead, dickweed.

>>9596100
I have, it is far simpler than building one in SpaceMaster - a newer game.Your point is well taken, though.

Gaming Scene 1982 - RPGs weren't sold in respectable bookstores, you had to go to Toys or Us and find them next to the urinating dolls.

>>9595127

I play SR4 and the second sentence describes me perfectly.

>talking about how "blase" and "repetitive" all videogames are now
Uh, except they basically are? Fallout 3, Oblivion, Warcraft as mentioned, plus like 200+ MMOs that copied WoW's formula exactly. Mass Effect and Dragon Age are pale shadows of Baldur's Gate and Planescape Torment. Concepts like SWG and Planetside that should've been re-explored with better technology are being dumped in favor of GET LEVELS THROUGH GRINDING mmos. XCOM, Deus Ex, Aliens versus Predator, Ghost Recon System Shock, and Half Life get (or continue to get) sequels that don't really understand what made the original game good, so they just throw in a bunch of "cinematic action sequences". Gaming Is Bleeding To Death As We Speak.