>Schismatics
>Split from chin to groin by sword

The cutting power of the masterwork bastard sword at works.

>>8872613
Dante was a hack.
That book is basically him whining about everyone and everything that pissed him off. It's like horrible facebook fanfiction before computers even existed.

>>8872613
Oh shit, remember the guy in the burning coffin who just didn't fucking give a shit? Like, Dante was just walking through that part, and this guy Farinata just stands up, and says, "HEY ARE YOU FROM FLORENCE." And he's all sweating and shit, cause he's on fucking fire, but his chiseled jaw and furrowed brow don't waver for a second. And when some other ghost interrupts him and starts talking to Dante, Farinata just stands there, waiting. Like he's thinking "WHATEVER, I'M GOING TO BE ON FIRE FOR FUCKING FOREVER, I CAN WAIT". That guy was so fucking hardcore.

>>8872645
>Oh, shit remember
No, I don't think they do. What are the odds of more than two people on /tg/ having actually read Dante?

>>8872653
I have. Standard for the 11th grade back in Waldorf.

>>8872660
>Waldorf
Rudolf Steiner's best work was in Phantasy Star.

>>8872660
>Waldorf
That isn't even a real place.

>>8872642
Yeah, because the books aren't in melodic stanzas that mirror each other, don't at once demonstrate a view of both politics and religion that so sincere that it resonates with the reader's soul, and aren't at their core an enlightened fundamental philosophical discussion of the nature of the human soul. Oh, also, they didn't INVENT A FUCKING LANGUAGE.

Nope. None of that.

>>8872653
I haven't read the actual Inferno, but I've poured over the Wikipedia articles and History Channel specials.

I'm more interested in the imagery and derived symbolism than I am the actual piece itself.

>>8872653
I read, oh, the first two canti or so. Then I just retired to Wikipedia for the synopsis. Accelerated society. Feels good man.

>>8872642
I don't think they had hacks back then. You were either the real deal or a peasant.

>>8872668
...but it IS a delicious salad.

>>8872663
Everyone knows the salad was better. Fuck you.

>>8872668
Not a place, but a series of borderline cultist German private schools. Rudolf Steiner was one of the founders of the Anthroposophical movement (yes, that's how it is spelled) and a certifiable lunatic.
Figures he'd have pre-college students reading Dante. Did he also teach you about the love-sensing organs inside cat whiskers?

>>8872653
I read a few of the canti in the original Florentine, but I had to break down and reread them in modern Italian most of the time. The original was fucking beautifully written, though. It loses a lot in the translation.

>>8872670
Yep. Exactly like facebook. Poetry, political commentary, pretentiousness, and being nerdy as hell.

>>8872686
The...the what now?

>>8872686
>Look up "anthroposophical" in the dictionary
>Anthroposophical- adj. of or pertaining to anthroposophy
>reactionimage.jpg

I've read the Inferno. In terms of craftsmanship, it's fucking impressive but it also betrays some naivete of the kind "I don't like this dude so I will write an epic poem about him getting buttfucked by demons".

>>8872692
...You didn't read Inferno, did you?

>>8872670
You sound like an art critic.
>>8872692
You sound like a jackass.

I'm torn. I don't know who deserves to be bitched out more.

>>8872695
Better you don't know. I'm fairly certain it's Christian, but they do a lot more worshipping of specific angels than they do of God, throwing Michael's name around way, way too much.
I think they're closet gnostics, personally.

>>8872738
Actually it was the "love-sensing organs" thing that threw me. I'm having a hard time processing that level of insanity.

IIRC, Dante saw Beatrice two or three times in his life. She once greeted him when they came across each other on the street and he locked himself in his room for days doing god knows what.

>>8872746
If that bothers you, then stop there. That's something so light I could mention it without it being dismissed as a joke. It's all downhill from there.

Awesome, atheists aren't there.

Unless they're pagans, in which case all they do is grieve the absence of God... except they don't, because they want him not to exist.

Hmm...

>>8872774
I dunno man, if I suddenly found out the big man was real and then got turned out of the best party in the universe, I'd be bummed out too.

First
Third
Fifth (Wrathful)
Eighth (Hypocrites)

of course none of this is real
[spoiler]or is it?[/spoiler]

>>8872774
Third ring of the seventh circle. The description of the sin the poem is more generic than "blasphemer", though the sinner who speaks in that scene is indeed a blasphemer.

>>8872788

Wait, the crimes there are:
Blaspheming against God/Atheism (fairly serious, I'd say).
Sodomy (serious for the time).
Lending at high rates of interest (what.)

Blasphemers and sodomites both go in the blazing desert, they've got me coming and going.

Although an eternity in a desert full of gays and atheists can't be all bad.

The Hoarders/Spenders tier seems fairly light. Though they have opposing goals, it's not as if they have to be any good at it, or hate the opposers.

I can just picture them, leaning on their boulders and chatting.

>>8872774
Yeah, athiests are with the unbaptized and pagans (assuming they led a perfectly virtuous life otherwise). The punishment of being kicked out of heaven is applied to all circles of hell, but they don't get anything on top of it. So, yes, it's the best scenario possible if you're already in hell. Most of them just wander around in darkness forever, but the truly magnanimous like Aristotle, Virgil, Plato, and others, they get a little fire to gather around for some light and warmth.

>>8872808
Hoarders were here
Spenders are losers

>>8872813
Spenders here

Way to have not enjoyed your wealth before you died, asshole.

>>8872774
Atheists were considered apostates and blasphemers back int he day, so they would probably go to the third circle.

>>8872821
Second Hoarder here.
We believe in helping our children.

>>8872830
By refusing to feed them so you can pocket the food money? Pfeh.

Limbo is a great party game. I look forward to playing it for all eternity.

>>8872843
YOU spent it all anyway. At least this way they get it back.

Unless there's somewhere for the really Slothful to go, I guess I'm going to hang out with the hoarders.

Oh well, guess I'll get fit at least.

>>8872830

Spender here.

Guess where your children ended up?

As said in the other thread:
>Wrathful: Engaged in combat with each other on the surface of the river Styx
>ON THE SURFACE of the river Styx

FUCK YEAH VIKING RAGE VALHALLA

We just need to make some boats, anyone seen any trees that we could use?

>>8872916
>son_I_am_disappoint.jpg

>>8872916
One of them's helping me push this boulder back into the pit, but I haven't found the other two.

Man, that's odd - but I'd swear the 2nd & 3rd Levels sound just like Ohio. Hmmmm....

Delicious burning coffins for me, but it's okay, i've just been proven right that God is a monstrous entity.

'Tis better to be a spender than a hoarder. Once the boulders get pushed to the middle all you have to do is hijack them and use the momentum to keep it rolling until it hits the wall. Then when it bounces, the hoarders can use the remaining bounced momentum to bring it back to the centre.

If we bounce it hard enough we'll break right out of the circle, boys.

Coffin here as well. At least I'll be warm...

Btw, anyone else who thought Dante's heaven sucked pretty fucking bad as well? If you're lucky you might have your personality crushed to the point where you are basically gone, but otherwise enjoy eternity of having your very mind enslaved.

>>8872613
6th circle?!?!?! Thats all I get? Oh, man I need to betray some kin, or country.

>>8874367
well, the christian heaven is slavery. better to die on your feet i suppose...

The thing that always bugged me is how it loses creativity near the bottom. "Betrayers of Guests? yeah, ice for them too".

also fourth circle: Spenders AND Hoarders. Damned if you do, damned if you don't...

>>8872670
Invent a language? What?

>>8874464
Dante basically "invented" modern Italian starting from scratch (medieval Florentine )

Third circle for me.

Are you kidding?

First Circle. Get together all the greatest pre-christian philosphers and statesmen of all time. Take over the place.

Julius Caeser, Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Qin Shi Huang, pretty much every important BC historical figure that wasn't a mass murderer should be there.

That's a lot of strategic and tactical genius there, not to mention scientific.

>>8872613
There are two different circles for the violent and those who filled their lives with wrath. The violent were not as well off as the wrathful if I remember.

7th Circle:
violent against people and property, who are immersed in Phlegethon, a river of boiling blood, to a level commensurate with their sins

Suicides- transformed into gnarled thorny bushes and trees, which are fed on by the Harpies.

Blasphemers, Buttfuckers and Loansharks- lie on burning sand with meteors raining from the sky

7th Circle Ring Two. Yeah it's not all that bad in here. We have internet and every so often we get to use. I just wasted it on 4chan.

pic not entirely unrelated.

Have you read Inferno? Fighting endlessly for all eternity is very much a punishment, especially since this punishment is for wrath, not for being a soldier. Also, this isn't weaboo Japan where you're a master swordsman who can cut through a thousand opponents with your magic sword. Eventually the other guy will get you, and it will hurt like hell. And then he'll kill you, but you won't die. And even that won't mean you get to stop fighting. And lead cloaks, well, you try wearing something so heavy it nearly breaks your back constantly. The way it was described I think I'd take the burning coffin.

lol outdated morality.

Anyway, does anyone remember that setting /tg/ was working on a way back where somehow the inhabitants of hell had managed to overthrow the demons on most levels, but there were all sorts of odd rumblings that no-one was actually going upstairs to heaven at all, and that possibly everything up there was dead/gone?

It's your hell, you burn in it.

The Comedy is well worth reading in entirety, but I won't lie, Inferno is where the most vivid, interesting stuff is.

I'd probably be in the fifth circle either getting endlessly gutted or stewing in the muck.

7th circle with my fellow atheists and homofags.

The Duck will reside in Valhalla, bitch!

>>8872933
Fifth Circle
... but I am both Wrathful and Sullen.

Hoarders here.

We get McDuck.

you dont FUCK with McDuck.

>>8876022

Heaven sucks. It's like reading an endless chain of inside jokes between two alternative music fags.

>>8872613
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheSalvationWar

Read that, for it is awesome.

Looks like I get to kick ass for an eternity. fuck yea i cant wait.

>>8876413

FIFTH CIRCLE? WELL LET'S SEE WHO KICKS WHAT EXACTLY
OR WE COULD TEAM UP AND GO BEAT THE EMOS AT THE BOTTOM OF RIVER STYX

PROTIP: Hell is actually fucking awesome. As for me, either Pride, Sloth, Gluttony, or Wrath.

I dunno, aside from the extreme-torture ones some of these aren't all that bad considering you're trapped in there for all eternity I'm assuming you're immortal and your body doesn't really get damaged so you probably get used to stuff like wearing a cloak of lead or bushing boulders after the first few hundred years. Either that or you die and are born again in hell, but the restults are the same.

What I'm wondering is who the hell sat down and wrote a fucking book about what kinds of torment people would suffer in the afterlife. Sometimes I think it was just the journal of one of the apostoles who happened to have a torture fetish.

Just think about it, maybe in a thousand years depictions of hell will consist of japanese hentai imagery:
"Second circle, rapists: raped by tentacles for all eternity."

i think we're all forgetting that, by the values and logic of the original writer, EVERYONE is a Heretic. Including modern catholics. Fuck, probably including the pope.

I dobut they have enough coffins.

>>8876502
...and everyone has committed at least half of these sins, so the devil probably just rolls a d10 to see where you end up.

First
Second
Third
worst case is I end up in the Eight Circle - Flatterer.

My fear is that I would end up in eight circle.

>>8876498

The whole Divine Comedy is actually a massive allegory touching on politics, philosophy and so on. It's not torture porn.

>>8876534
this one never made any sense. So, any male who has ever been in a relationship with a woman, or even sought one, is goign to hell?

The future of the human race doesnt look good.

>>8876514
the devil is stuck in the 9th layer, he doesn't get to choose where you go, King Minos the judge of the dammed does from Limbo

What happens if you do all of those things?

Im pretty sure it goes by the Sin you committed the most of...

Being 4channers, I guess we all get to be heretics sitting in a desert of fire forever.

on to limbo I go

>>8872610
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>>8872613
>and guys who have to wear weighted cloaks
Those weighted cloaks are made of molten lead and weigh more than men.

>>8872692
/tg/ - where the canon of western literature is filled with hacks, but 40k is a crowning achievement of mankind.

Pfft, I'm gay, so auto-7th :/

This shit is why I lost my faith in the first place.

>>8876597
Not Dante's Inferno, just the anti-homosexual attitude in general

>>8876544
I'm not talking about Dantes depiction of hell, I mean the original one.

>>8876498
>What I'm wondering is who the hell sat down and wrote a fucking book about what kinds of torment people would suffer in the afterlife. Sometimes I think it was just the journal of one of the apostoles who happened to have a torture fetish.

Your ignorance is truly astounding.

Technically, shouldn't Plato and Aristotle be in with the sodomites? Fanboyism != forgiveness.

>>8872613

Probably 8th circle, in with either the hypocrites or the falsifiers. Deception is my one big sin really. Failing that, 6th circle (atheist).

Ahh yes, the city of Dis
Home, sweet, home.

I utterly resent organized religion.

>>8876629
Come on, don't tell me Dante was the first or the only to describe what hell must be like. I'm sure there must have been someone else before him.

City of Dis.

>people LOCKED IN BURNING COFFINS.
the city of Dis is a special place in Hell, heretics are considered worse than the other sinners since they clearly refused God. Yes, their punition is harsher, and if you mind, it is said that the day of judgement those coffin will close forever and all the eternity, worsening even more the penance.

Dantetip: the various degrees of punishment are to be intended not only in a physical way.
The real punishment, in the Comedy, is on the morale/psycological plane.

>>8872642
Hironically, there are a lot of friends of Dante in Hell, rather than in Purgatory or Heaven.
His spiritual guide and his classical models will never make to Heaven. His teacher is in Hell. His best friend will be in hell like his father.
It's a wonderful masterpiece, in my opinion.
(well maybe because I can read it in italian)

let's just get us some iron chariots and MARCH INTO HELL AND TAKE IT OVER

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=118771

Good thing I'm not a christian
Enjoy your religion that preaches eternal torment fags

>>8876711
Go to Circle 1, or circle 7 you Hereticfag 8D

I go to both too :D

The idea of eternal punishment is baffling to me. Isn't the point of punishment to teach you to not do something? If you are punished for eternity, you don't really get an opportunity to learn, do you? Eternal punishment would just serve to make you hate the one that sent you there.

>>8876743

Atheists are blasphemers, they belong in the seventh circle.

>>8876746
shh god loves you

>>8876746

There are two reasons to punish someone: to teach them that what they did was wrong, and to punish them for wrongdoing. You may argue that unlimited punishment for finite transgressions is unjust, but ultimately justice is whatever God says it is.

THIS JUST IN: Jesusfags are fags.
Film at 11.

>>8876824
Jesus technically went to circle 1 :D

"Struck with grief from a lack of God's presence"

Fuck, I just realized I'm in the first circle of hell.

>>8876824
Fuck you. Christianity (and every other organised raligion) sucks but Jesus was awesome. So was John Paul II, best pope ever.

Nowhere, I'm a Christfag. To heaven I go!

>>8876746
Well to an infinite being like God eternal isn't all that long.

Zoroastrianism is where it's at, bitches.

>>8876817
>to punish them
So you punish them for the sake of punishing them? To be vengeful? That second reason isn't much of a reason. It serves no real purpose other than to cause the person harm.

Blasphemer/sodomite. I'm pretty sure I've blasphemed against god at some point or another (even though I have nothing in particular against Christianity), but haven't been paying much attention, given that I don't believe in him and all. But if not blasphemer then definitely sodomite. Definitely, definitely sodomite.

To the desert of blazing sand we go!

>submerged in human excrement

WHO'S BEEN READING MY DIARY?

>>8876843
He was never as cool as Sean Paul though.

>>8876886
>The LORD is a jealous and avenging God; the LORD takes vengeance and is filled with wrath. The LORD takes vengeance on his foes and maintains his wrath against his enemies.

God created the universe, all that is good and just flows from him. If he chooses to punish you for whatever reason he chooses, and for however long he chooses, that is by definition a good and just act.

>>8876975
>By definition

Nope.

God may have created the universe, but he didn't write our dictionaries. We as humans have the power to make that judgment for ourselves. And I say he's a dick.

Doubly so for choosing to invest us all with moral reasoning and empathy which he himself doesn't agree with.

>>8876843
>assuming Jesus exists
>saying any Pope was good
DERP DA DURRR

>>8877050

John Paul II was awesome, eh went everywhere and didn't afraid of anything.

>>8877050
>thinks Jesus didn't exist
>saying no Pope ever was good

>>8877050
Stop making atheists look retarded by saying things like "Jesus didn't exist."

Pope John XXIII here, John Paul II was smalltime.

>>8876846
Being a Christian and being a Good Christian are different things. Claiming Christianity is not supposed to be a free pass to absolution. Living by the bible and the teachings of God is how you get into heaven. Been stoning any women lately?

>>8875938

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/6389879/

Looks like someone archived it. I remember it being pretty awesome.

>>8877028

The Bible is quite explicit on the matter, and subsequent human-made definitions of words is irrelevant to a theistic understanding of morality.

>>8877168
>citing an ancient Hebrew text during and English semantics debate

>>8877232
>Mistaking a theological discussion on Dante's Inferno for a matter of semantics

>>8877261
>semantics
LINGUISTFAGS ASSEMBLE
WITH THE POWER OF PSYCHOLINGUISTICS I WILL CRUSH YOU WITH MY MIND!

>>8877290

Psycholinguistics has nothing to do with semantics, idiot.

>>8877168
such a retarded argument. if god is the manifestation of all good, and we are imbued with some semblance of good, there should not be any indication that god be anything OTHER than good.

consider this:

if one HUMAN would forgive someone for an action where god would punish them eternally, then that HUMAN is more compassionate and loving than god.

of course, the whole idea of god punishing any human is simply man made, but you get the idea.

>>8877261

It is a matter of semantics.

Someone implied that god was a cockface, according to modern notions of ethics and decency. You're right to reply that such modern notions are irrelevant to God (much as they are irrelevant to any psychopath crouching in a cell), but I- as I'm sure you know- would respond that His own notions of morality are equally irrelevant to modern society.

When you said "god defines righteousness" (righteousness being, in fact, an English word invented by man), you were attempting to break said stalemate by appealing to semantics. Even though you had absolutely no grounding for such an appeal.

A book compiled from a massive amount of now partly destroyed material and translated&interpreted by mortals cannot be said to contain the truth of God, and those claiming the opposite are blind fools, as is anyone accepting Paul's works and additions in any way.

Dante's ideas are dated, now we know the difference between hell and hades and death. :>

>>8877327

Then your problem isn't with God's Justice but with a literal interpretation of the Bible, in which case you are a heretic and are bound for the Sixth Circle, or else you disagree with the whole concept of divine law, in which case you are a blasphemer and belong in the Seventh Circle.

>>8877349
Well, roughly 600 years later god came back and gave us the Qur’an. In difference to the bible, this truly is god's word, unchanged by mortal hand or mind.

>>8877349
pretty much. it gets even more ridiculous when you consider the fact that we have OLDER manuscripts with the exact same eden/human creation story and flood myths, but with different reasons and many gods a few thousand years before judaism even EXISTED

yet people still believe that its the original.

>>8877365

It's not that the bible is wrong so much as that it has been mistranslated. To call God merciful is simply false.

Limbo probably most of the world's best philosophers that were atheists went there.

>>8877365
does dante claim that god is good, compassionate etc? or is god simply just?

its possible we have no way of understanding divine justice, but god can not be both compassionate and just.

>>8877395

I don't think an atheist philosopher could ever express his atheism without winding up on the 6th or 7th.

I think 'virtuous pagan' refers to righteous and upstanding persons who were not familiar with the Christian god.

>>8877387
Implying that burning in hell is better then heaven.

>>8877375

Yes. Qu'ran is not to be criticized, and all of mankind must recognise Mohammed and his loli wife as their spiritual liege.

>>8877395
Athiests didn't go to Limbo

>>8877425
A true 4channer. Fucking lolis and still trolling the world even 1400 years after his death.
So proud.

>>8877415
Yeah, because IIRC, Dante had a good portion of the burning sepulchers devoted to Epicurus.

>>8877423
Hell has better music, and all my friends will be there.

>>8877464
Which really pisses me off, because Epicurus was a great guy who was all about having a good time without going to excess. He also argued over the atomic "swerve" -- ergo, Epicurus was the original Kamina.

>>8877486
Implying that you will ever see them.

>>8877504
He couldn't have praised Epicurus without invoking the church's wrath. It was bad enough that he put Saladin in limbo.

>>8872805
>Although an eternity in a desert full of gays and atheists can't be all bad.

Indeed it sounds quite....hot

>>8877526
Implying hell exists in the first place, and it isn't just an entertaining discussion.

>>8877564
>implying this is entertaining, and not just intellectual masturbation

>>8877556

>>8877564

No he isn't. His post presumed nothing more or less than the post it replied to. You suck at imaginary discussions.

>>8877594
>Implying that masturbation, intellectual or otherwise, is not entertaining

>>8877613
No when you use another person it become sex. You are having gay intellectual sex with other fat basement dwellers online anon.

>>8872613
couldn't you just... Lie on top of the clock of lead? a cloak goes on back, lie stomach up, cloak is now bed of lead.

>>8877638
Its a goddam allegory, shut the fuck up.

>>8877634
Which puts us all in the 7th circle, ring three. Question answered.

>>8877634

Fuck yea we are.

>>8877634
No, that's just a circle jerk, since the military does it all the time they declared it to not be gay.

>>8877660
Good call, i second.

>flatterers
>immersed in shit

I lol'd.

Old Testament was here. Stop making idiot interpretations of God.

>Wrath
>Fight for eternity

WAAAAAAAAGH!

>>8877711
Ork heaven?

>>8877676

Not necessarily. Its actually very tricky for intellectual masturbation for more than one to remain an intellectual circle jerk, and not become intellectual gay sex. Stringent boundaries must be observed. I'm not sure of those boundaries are being observed here. I think that, in our excitement, we've forgotten any pretense of intellectual circlejerkery. But perhaps I'm wrong.

The question is this: are intellectual balls touching?

Sucks to be you guys I'm of to Valhalla

>>8877327
>>8877365
>>8877385
>>8877402
What I find funny is that Dante, as well as most people forget that within the so called holy texts God refers to himself as both encompassing all that is good and all that is evil.

>>8877742
the real question is: does it matter?

>>8877695

Yea, that was fantastic.

WHAT THE HELL DOES IT MEAN BY SCHISMATICS?

>>8877761
I don't think it matters. Once intellectual sodomy is happening, the sin is done. it doesn't matter if it's intellectually gay or not.

>>8877657
I think you are pissed I figured out how to cheat the system, and you have probably been hunched over in your cloak of lead for the past 9000 years and are only now realizing you could have used it as bedding.

>>8877781
Splitters, the most notable in Catholic history being the Great Schism between Rome and Constantinople and the Lutheran/Calvinist movements in the early 16th century, though the latter had yet to happen in Dante's time.

>>8877806
The cloaks are molten lead. You can lie on it, but then you're resting in a pool of molten lead.

>>8877865

Well shit man, that's better than standing in one.

>>8877865
>Wearing molten lead.

I've got to say, being trapped in a burning coffin sounds like the worst one there.

>>8877889
>Implying immersion in boiling blood isn't just as bad.

Khornate detected.

>>8877807
Okay, what the hell does it mean by SULLEN?

So you go to hell for being sad?

>>8877290
>Breaking minds with the power of language
FUND IT!

That sounds like a Dark Eldar orgy to me.

>>8877889
I don't know, Dis is pretty damned bad. Being masticated for eternity?

>>8877880
It's an ancient punishment used by a really nasty ass king. Really heavy, very hot lead cloaks were worn by prisoners, this is put as a punishment in hell by Dante. I exaggerated when I said molten earlier in the thread, but so hot it burns the flesh is the case.

>>8877880
You're OK with the existence of heaven and hell, and by relation the existence of an allmighty God and a Lucifer to oppose him. You're OK with undying bodies being locked in burning coffins. Perpetually frozen ice in a plane otherwise continually burning. Demons, HArpies, all OK. But wearing molten lead is the line?

>>8877865

It's not molten lead, it's just normal lead, IIRC. Whoever said it's molten is silly. The whole point is they're "weighed down by their hypocrisy".

Well since I'm an atheist and a devout proponent of reason and logic over religion I'm pretty sure I'm a heretic or a blasphemer in their eyes. So I either get a burning desert or a burning coffin.
Granted since none of this exists I'm pretty sure I'll make out the same as everyone else after I die: absolutely nothing will happen and my consciousness will be gone forever.

>>8877915
Consider it akin to soothesaying - saying every thing is doomed all the time and life sucks. Consider it going to hell for suicide encouragement.

>>8877957
But if it's not, I can use your corpse as a fire-shield, right?

>>8877915
The fifth circle is for the angry. Wrath (anger expressed) and sullen (anger repressed).

>>8877966
Soothsaying is a free ride to the 8th circle.

>>8877923
My name is a killing word...

>>8877954

In fact the lead cloaks are gilded so they look very astoundingly beautiful and ornate on sight, but weigh the wearer down so heavily that they nearly cannot move.

It's been a decade since I played it, but I guess the villains in Wild Arms 2 were named after places in the ninth level of hell, huh?

I feel like a slowpoke.

>>8877974

That still sounds like you're being punished in the afterlife because you were unhappy in life.

I'm hardly an accomplished Biblical scholar but I was under the impression that only thoughts and actions constituted sin (including fantasies and unwholesome desired, but excluding such basic things as moods or emotions).

>>8877164

This shit was actually pretty cool. Very grim, very fantastical, and very fuck-yea-humanity.

>>8877995
In this case, it's the thoughts. The actions are a ride to the 7th circle.

>>8877954
He says the cloaks are light compared to those of Frederick II of Swabia, who melted lead cloaks on to the backs of his prisoners. He comments on how orange the lead cloaks are and how thick they are, how orange they are should indicate their heat.

Hmm... so why again is Judas in Hell? This is one of the parts in Christian myths I never quite grasped. Shouldn't he be a martyr? He did as his God willed and betrayed the Messiah so that he could die for the Original Sin. Without him there would be no salvation, so in that Judas was one of his most valued tools ever... so should he not sit by His throne?

>>8877995
Seems to me wrath would be a mood or emotion.

Well wrathful actions would be the thing I guess, but a wrath's a wrath.

>>8878059
Because that was back before God decided to become a pansy like he's famous for being in later Christian myth.
As such, he was still the biggest douchebag in the universe at the time.

>>8878059
depends on the interpretation, the modern gospels condemn him, and those were probably the ones that were known back then but there is the gospel of judas which indicates that the story is that he did what jesus wanted and was necessary for jesus resurrection etc

>>8878059
He betrayed a friend, same as the other two.

Inferno isn't a religious work so much as him mocking the church.

>>8877348

My grounding is Biblical authority, which in a theologicl discussion is the highest authority. Whchever modern word you use to derscribe God's claims, they ammount to the same thing: God is the only source of morality in the universe, and therefore whatever God does is moral and good. That modern humans disagree is of no consequence, since the discussion is confined to theology and not the broader field of moral philosophy.

>>8878059

The christian god as written is far from even tempered or loving.

Capricious and wrathful are more appropriate.

>>8878059
Not to mention he did all that to better the poor, and in the end repented.

However, we're talking Catholics here, who interpret the bible as "don't sin or you go to hell" which raises the question of what the fuck was Jesus doing on that cross then, if not dying for our sins.

>>8878075
Well duh, the God's plan pretty much calls for a fall guy to take the blame, or there would be no crucifixion and all it entails. In that manner Judas is the foundation of the religion, besides big J himeslf.

>>8878103
>You use logic!
>It's ineffective against Christianity

I'll end up in VALHALLA!

>>8878088

Nice try, but no, it isn't. The conversation began because someone applied modern moral philosophy to God. If you wanted a conversation strictly limited to the self-referential and self-validating worldview of the theist, I'm afraid you butted your head into the wrong conversation.

Again, saying "all morality comes from god" is attempting to redefine morality. Secular morality exists. You're wrong if you say it doesn't.

>>8878121
Ah shite, I forgot about the immunities. Perhaps using Internal Dissent will be more effective.

>>8878090
>who interpret the bible as "don't sin or you go to hell"

Completely wrong. You should know better.

>>8878131
>You used Internal Dissent!
>It's super effective!

>>8878127
First morality was religious or superstitious, though. As you can't kill him, his spirit/ancestor/god of our tribe will eat your face.

10th circle, The Satan's upside down penthouse partying with the stars!

>>8878189

Totally, yup.

I'm not saying religion was bad for humanity's development, or even that it is all bad now. What I'm doing is defending the statement "God is a cockface".

>>8876091

Endless fighting on the bed of the River Styx.

>>8878103

If I'm not entirely mistaken, there's a school in modern theology who pretty much says what you're saying - only in greater detail and working through all the theological implications.

>>8872613
On the throne.

>>8878190

>>8878189
>First morality was religious or superstitious, though.

unsupported statement

>>8878122
Assuming you go out fighting.

>>8878199
Which god? I'm assuming Christian, but even here can you honestly state that everyone has the same interpretation of their god, even if they believe in the same one?

>>8878205
DOMO ARIGATO?

>>8878146

>>8876842
>"Struck with grief from a lack of God's presence"

I read the thing bottom to top, and when I got to that bit I imagined all the virtuous pagans laughing at it.

If God built all of this evil shit with people boiling in cauldrons of turds and crying until they're blind and being locked in coffins which are also on fire, the only emotion I can imagine feeling in response to his absence is a profound sense of relief and delight.

fifth, wrathful
fight way down to eighth strike deal to become Spawn
escape

>>8878127

Correct, and then there's also this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro_dilemma

>>8878199
>What I'm doing is defending the statement "God is a cockface".
This is funny because basically what early Proto-Christians did is make up the most Mary Sue deity ever. I mean seriously, omniscience, omnipresence and omnipotence? It's like they didn't even try and just went "Yeah, well my god's powerlevel is always bigger than yours by +1". Like a kindergarden argument.

But was that enough for then? Hell no, because the average dirt farming peasant or sheep herder couldn't even imagine God, so they took a shitload of pagan deities, mashed them together and created Jesus (original demigod do not steal) so they could say, here's what the motherfucker looks like now paint some goddamn pictures and sculpt some fucking statues!

Still not enough? Well all right bitch, so we'll give you history's greatest guilttrip. Remember the son of God? Yeah, that dude you just worshipped. Well you fucking killed him! Oh man, god is going to be so fucking pissed, better start repending right now shitstain! C'mon build dose chucher, faster!

>>8878273
No, what Dante put into his books was more or less to make fun of the Catholic Church. The book is much more of a political piece than a religious one. It strikes more at the problem of hypocrisy in the church and mentions quite a few names of people who were both living at the time and others who were quite popular. It had little to do with the church's own views of what hell was like.

>>8878303
>Well you fucking killed him!
This is something about christianity I've never understood: if Jesus died for our sins, why do we still have to repent for them?

>>8878303
>C'mon build dose chucher, faster!
DERP, I was going to say c'mon build dose churches faster, but ah whatever.

>>8878219
>Thinks mammoth hunters were amiable atheists

>if Jesus died for our sins, why do we still have to repent for them?

To provide employment for priests.

marcionists understood the paradox of the christian god, they believed it was actually two different beings because they were so incompatible with each other

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcionism

>>8878345
That's so that the church can continue exploiting you. In actuality, you are already absolved. Now all that is required is that you thank him for his sacrifice and live by his example of mercy, giving and generosity. Also pay your taxes.

>>8878345

Answer 1: We don't have to repent, that's blasphemy

Answer 2: J00s killed him! Vengeance, Justice, Blood, FOR THE BLOOD GOD!

>>8878374
its debatable, they would probably have no concept of any god or spirituality and simply had a system of morality akin to other primates. they know enough of what not to do by a system of learned and taught actions in their specific societies

then animism developed and then pantheism/polytheism and so on

>>8878391
Is that why hell is under Jooland?

>>8878345

The idea is that Jesus makes it possible for us to repent. Basically he's cutting us a deal and we just have to go through the flesh-eating blood-drinking rituals to accept said deal.

If not for him we would be sinning before an infinite god and then faced with the task of making up for that infinite transgression. In other words, SOL.

>>8872686

I went to a Steiner school.

They made us pretend to be celandines during 'eurythmy' class, told us about the life energies of plants and wombs, and explained that a defining feature of an alkali was that it was 'slimy'.

They were basically used as a dumbing ground for nutjobs, malcontents and autistics by the state school system. Guess which I was?

>LOCKED IN BURNING COFFINS.

PS, that's me :(

Anyone not christian, scientists, athiests, evolutionists, etc.

>>8878433
>Basically he's cutting us a deal and we just have to go through the flesh-eating blood-drinking rituals to accept said deal.

fuck yeah, transubstantiation. who thought up that crazy ass pagan ritual?

>>8878411

Religion has existed for as long as social imagination has.

The real question is, does morality actually predate this. I'm not sure if I would personally describe primate society as having a moral code as we understand it, but I see that you have a point.

>>8878433
Also babies are born sinners (first circle of hell) by default until they're baptised.

>>8878451
Wow, wait, how many of you people are there?
I've seem Eurythmy, it's positively cultish. Is it true you have a movement for every fucking sound? I've seen guys from California *talking* in it, but I think they were just trying to freak us out.

>>8878345

He died for Original Sin. Adam and Eve eating the forbidden apple.

Apparently we only get to sacrifice one Messiah per sin.

Oh for the love of...the Bible hasn't been 'mistranslated'. There are scores of different translations, and for the most part they are all essentially the same.

It hasn't been mistranslated or misinterpreted. It's simply bullshit to begin with.

>>8878452
Not at all, actually. Heresy is when a Christian defaults on his religion willingly. If you were never one, then you're merely a Pagan/Heathen dog, and barring inclusion in another circle, will end up chilling with Aristotle in the 1st level, which isn't too rough.

Isn't the foundation of the Christian idea of Jesus' salvation the original sin? That is, eating the fruit of knowledge and being driven out of Eden stuff? That his death atones the sin? And conveniently cuts off even the jewish on whose religion Christianity was founded upon.

ps: holy fucking shit guys somebody ARCHIVE THIS.

A religious discussion with no trolls!

>>8878497
Oh hush. We're trying to be civil here.

>>8878508

Oh sweet!
I love Aristotle!
I hope Epicurus is there too.

I am a theif. I get chased by Dinosaus and crocodiles forever.

notsureifwantinrelationtootherpunishments.jpg

>>8878516
>A religious discussion with no trolls!
The fact that we're discussing a real-life religion on an imageboard about boardgames and heresy is a troll in- and by-itself.

>>8878508
In fact, one could say that for a non-Christian, Limbo might as well be heaven. It's an afterlife, you're alive, you've only got good people around you, and you're not missing anything you weren't before.
It's only bad if you're a Christfag and the idea of being severed from glorious Gawd is onerous to you, which, granted, I can understand.

ITT: dumb atheists attempting to look smart. Honestly, people, there's so many of you on the Internet it gets real hard not to stumble upon some holier-than-thou moron claiming to be all "enlightened". Go wank your nonexistent intellect on some hardcore religious forums for other extremist dumbfucks.