Overrated.

inb4 waves of hate.

The intended audience is fairly young, but she manages to convey classic storytelling archetypes and themes to a wide audience effectively. It's not timeless literature, but it's good for what it is.

Cute and clever in some parts, quite traditional for the most. But as for game material, it feels a little too niche'd. Maybe it could work as a basis for something Maid-esque...

It was a great experience for me to read growing up, and while I can see all the flaws with her writing now that I'm older, I still can't deny that the Harry Potter series was one of the biggest reasons why I got into reading as a kid.

It's not an amazing work of literary genius, but it's entertaining and hits its main demographic perfectly, so I'm not complaining.

I enjoy the latin subtones.

It was popular in its time, so doomed to eventual obscurity.

Awfully boring. There are some good moments, but none of the ideas are particularly new.

Looking at that pic, eh. I'd hit it. But I'll never get over the rules for magic in this series. I'm too much a product of the eighties and sword and sorcery. Wizards should be more badass than schoolkids.

Shit. Utter shit. Go troll /lit/ with this steaming turd.

Great idea - not very well thought out implementation with some horrific implications that probably were not all intended

Great for little kids from books 1-4 but everything after that I found to be poorly written and dull. I'm really glad that she made them though. I love it when kids want to read on their own instead of being forced.

A good children's/young adult series, not a good setting to game in because it falls apart under mountains of horrifying implications at the slightest touch of critical thinking, much like, say, Pokemon or Star Trek. If you play with groups that just run with settings instead of picking at logic threads, or want to go into that deconstructive grimdark, go for it.

Good children's fiction.

Nothing that I would recommend to an adult/a well-read child though.

What exactly are these horrible implications of the harry potter universe?

>>17160455
>What do you guys think about J.K.Rowling and her work?
Recommended for children of the ages 14-.

>>17160525
Goat fucking and centaur rape.

The explanation of magic, too, is so nebulous it's actually comical.

>>17160472
>inb4 waves of hate.
It seems I was mistaken about this.

>>17160525
I'm not sure what
>>17160506
has in mind, but I've enjoyed Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality. It's technically fanfic, but it's very good and written by a professional AI researcher (Eliezer Yudkowsky). The premise is that Harry's adoptive father was a professor, and this alternate-universe Harry is intensely rational.

The universe has to make sense, and so many thing in the Harry Potter books don't.

>>17160525
Teenage children are allowed to carry what are essentially stun guns, flashbangs, and guns openly, wizards routinely mindfuck mundanes at the slightest provocation, which has been outright shown to cause cumulative mental trauma every time they do it, wizard prison uses fucking soul-eating ghosts without more than token attempts at due process (If someone says you're a Death Eater, you're going to Azkaban, fuck proof), love potions (The ultimate date rape drug) are sold legally and openly, and Umbridge got gang-raped by centaurs at the end of one book. I could go on.

>>17160506
>falls apart under mountains of horrifying implications at the slightest touch of critical thinking
>Star Trek

What? That's not even close to true. I'm not even a hard-core trekkie and I can tell that's absolute rubbish. And the fact that you mentioned Star Trek and not 40k is just absolutely laughable.

I grew up devouring the books, reading the Goblet of Fire in one day's concentrated reading. Then at some point between that and the next one, I just lost interest completely, no idea what happened.

Really couldn't bring myself to pick any of the books up again. But for a series of children's books, their success in doing what they set out to do is undeniable.

>>17160550
(cont)
>The universe has to make sense, and so many thing in the Harry Potter books don't.
And so among other things, he points out all the stuff that makes no sense.

The banking. The rules of Quidditch. How magic works. And the dementors. Holy shit the dementors. *They have created a place worse than hell, and they put people in it*.
>>17160564

I'd hit it for one.

Second good enough writer, nothing genre redefiningly original but she was able to get so many children to actually read a fucking book more than ten pages 7 times over. Also she made good enough side characters that the books were interesting, if again not terribly original or strong enough to survive outside the core arc. Ending was blandly way to perfect and trollfacey, but meh not the first series to end weirdly.

NEVER NEVER NEVER introduce time travel into a setting that wasn't built around it from the start. That is all.

>>17160550
I am intrigued. Got a link to share?

>>17160563
I didn't mention 40k because that's sort of the entire point of 40k. But Star Trek has loads of technology they completely fail to utilize, such as graviton manipulation, mass-cloning using the transporter, and ability to outright manufacture people wholesale using the holodeck. And let's not forget Riker and his 'your clone has no real rights, fuck him' episode. Not so much horrifying implications as 'why aren't they using this stuff instead of technobabbling their way out of shit'

It's a miracle she ended the series, so many authors these days just drag things on forever at the behest of the publishers.

gets respect for that at least, plus getting kids to read.

The books are OK.

She made fantasy more mainstream.

If that means she watered down the hobby with fans looking for popularized garbage or renewed it with a stream of interested youths, I can't tell.

For better or for worse, she did what no one's done in a long time. She made Fantasy seems that less dorky.

>>17160563
My guess as to why he didn't mention 40k is that it doesn't even seem to pretend to make sense, whereas star trek, as far as I can see it, at least tries to be somewhat believable.

I find it twee

>>17160568
Last link should refer to
>>17160559

The fact that they have created Azkhaban is *horrifying*.

>>17160592
Here ya go.
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5782108/1/Harry_Potter_and_the_Methods_of_Rationality

More links on the author.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliezer_Yudkowsky
http://yudkowsky.net/
http://lesswrong.com/

>>17160611
Thankee, Sir.

>>17160559
Not only all that, but also most wizards, usually the adults, seem to have little or no real idea how mundane technology (or weaponry) works, meaning in of them could all too easily mishandle even non-magical items and cause serious harm, out of sheer ignorance.

Harry Potter's world is a LOT more fucked-up that it appears to be at first glance when you really look into it.

>>17160563
Not on topic but I find the star trek universe only has issues if you are the type to nerd rage if the federation is anything less than 100% more perfect than perfect magic happy land. I personally feel the federation takes care of necessities, which leaves luxuries as the pursuit of an individuals time and resources. Sure the replicator can make good steak, but that just means real meat is now a more valuable commodity to barter because it's a luxury item now, and with a race like ferangi around somebody will buy/trade something for it.

Rowling tells the story of Harry Potter quite well, but, unlike Tolkien, creates the world for this purpose.

The alternative is creating a world and then telling stories from it. If she had done that, I feel that the whole universe would be far more compelling. Not like she didn't try to insert random bits of setting, but Rowling did it in a way to advance the plot instead of advance the setting.

Example: Frodo's Sting vs Griffindor's sword.

Elrond tells us (in The Hobbit) that the Sting is one of "the old elven swords that were forged in Gondolin for the wars with the orcs." That's all the explanation it gets, but you read the Silmarillion and then realize what a big fucking deal Gondolin and those wars were.

Griffindor's sword is given a short exposition about being made by Goblins and also belonging to Griffindor the founder. It's unclear why that sword in particular appeared, why it's important, and why it's such a big fucking deal. (At least initially, later on things are revealed about the sorting hat/sword and the relics.)

I would love to see more about the HP setting, but, unfortunately, the way the setting was created means that any attempt to flesh it out has to fit with what was created for plot already. What's the deal with the merpeople? The giants? Where do the Dementors come from? What about dragons? Wizards outside of Britain?

>>17160628
That point about being clueless about Muggle artifacts is hammered on in the Methods of Rationality.

Pic related, the wizards in the original books have no fucking idea what rockets are, or even that muggles have been to the moon.

Now imagine what happens when wizards learn about nuclear weapons.

>>17160564
Because Goblet was (mostly) the worst book in the series. And as a result Harry Potter and the Triwizard Tournament was the worst movie in the series.

There are some flaws in it. Towards the end (I want to say the fifth or sixth book) I began losing interest and finished just to finish. Minor things bug me about it.
ie Hermione's time turner in the third book, Ravenclaw's consistently being outsmarted by Harry and his friends, the sudden reveal of Dumbledore being gay, and the epilogue. Oh god the epilogue.

Things that make you step back and just say "Why."
Criticism aside, it wasn't my favorite book growing up but it was certainly worth my time. In a world where Stephanie Meyer and Christopher Paolini are a multi-millionaires for their works, she is definitely well above average.

>>17160685
>Goblet of Fire the worst in the series
>not Harry Whiner and the Order of the Pansies

The Harry Potter series was shit. The first book was OK, a little bit of wish fulfillment and a new magical world and all that, but as the series dragged on it got duller and duller. Every book turned into Nancy Drew mysteries with magic and then at the very end you get one whole excretion of words that really could have used an editor with the balls to say, "you know, you've made a billion dollars and have nothing else to do with your time, you could have at least TRIED not to write a steaming pile of shit."

The infuriating thing is that the power of magic could be being put to such better use.

One day, the wall is going to come down and Muggles are going to know that magic is a real thing. The Wizards of that time are going to be all "the poor muggles will never understand our awesome power, and are sure to see us as the superior beings we are".

The thing is, though... Wizards don't learn anything beyond magic. They don't need to. So they never learn science.

10 years after muggles learn magic...

"This is the Nimbus 01, final startup checklist. Wand array 1, online. 2, online. 3, 4, 5, 6.... Online. We have steady magitron generation."
"Ventral Broomshaft integrity is looking good. Pilot is strapped in, and we have maneuvering control."
"Navigation has divined our likely exit point. Bring Wand Arrays 1-6 into alignment and hold for primary Navigator to focus Apperation Coordinates into the Munchausan Drive."
"Alpha Centauri, here we come."

>>17160628

You're forgetting the body horror.

Harry inflates his fucking aunt at one point just by losing his temper. He literally warps the fabric of her body in a horrific way, with her utterly incapable of opposing the whims of some angry teenager. This is considered a slap-on-the-wrist offence by the Ministry of Magic, since they can simply rewrite the memories of the aunt and any witnesses.

Also interesting is the choice of "Unforgivable Curses". For example, one particular instant-kill spell would be considered "unforgivable", while combining a spell to make a person continually vomit slugs and another to seal a person's mouth (both seen in the books) would not. So why is a quick death considered more reprehensible than a slow, torturous one? Because wizards can't block the former magically. Fuck the Muggles, they don't count.

>>17160593
First off, everything you complain about has been justified reasonably. A long time ago.

If you'd followed a bit more closely, you'd know that cloning (and genetic engineering) is a BIG no-no in the Federation. Like, one of the most horrendous crimes possible. This is why they don't just clone people (and the fact that transporter cloning eventually dilutes the DNA or something) and why Riker hated his clone. It's also why they completely shat on the Prime Directive when they met a world that stole their DNA to revitalize their own dying genepool. They just went down and murdered the clones and stole back their DNA, and didn't do much to help those people afterwards.

Also, because the stories would be fucking boring if it was just CLONE WARS ALL DAY ERRY DAY or HOLOGRAPHIC CLONE WARS ALL DAY ERRY DAY or DESTROY EVERY SHIP FROM A HUNDRED MILLION MILES AWAY USING CLOAKED PROPES THAT TRANSPORT WARP PLASMA BOMBS ON BOARD ENEMY VESSELS.

I'm not saying there aren't holes in Star Trek. But every series ever has holes and there's not nearly as many bad ones in Star Trek as people think. Oh, and also, Federation are the Good Guys. Like, out of any setting ever, they're the goodiest of guys. They wouldn't do anything that is morally or ethically wrong unless they had a DAMN good reason, and even then they'd only do it that one time.

I'd like to see Harry Potter deal with a sniper rifle round to the head.

>>17160664

Y'know, I often see those kinds of responses in Lich threads "put your phylactery in space/astral plane/similar". It's a good idea.

Then I read a story about a Lich who made his entire library a phylactery. But when his library was raided and the books scattered, he began losing his identity, his soul being scattered across the world.

I always liked that idea of phylacteries. Perhaps horcruxes work the same. They're parts of your SOUL, get too far away, and it may as well be destroyed.

>>17160716
Well it was a children's series, like Nancy Drew. And why would an Editor tell her not to write shit? Children bought her books in droves, adults bought her books, manchildren bought her books, tons of people bought the book and bought it multiple times. What editor would spit on that kind of goldmine by demanding she write a 'better to my tastes outside her target audience' angle?

Fun read, good thing for kids and the genre, but is held together with string and tape and falls apart easily if you prod it.

Pretty sure it's stated openly that muggles would rape face if the wall ever came down. And then this:
>>17160736
all my money. (Except muggles can't use magic because they are nonmagical, so they would probably need a wizard or something to run the magical shit while they fly their fabulous space carriages into space.)

First three books were great, IMO (especially the third). The fourth book wasn't quite as good, but still a good read.

Everything after that became a mix of insipid teenage drama, whining, and ass pulls. Maybe it's just because I got older, but all I really remember from the fifth book in particular is Harry yelling in caps a lot and Sirius dying.

>>17160736
Like others have said, the Harry Potter Universe while varied was never constructed well enough to exist outside the core Harry Potter story, and the more you poke it the more it cracks under this fact. Wizards in the Potter verse are really just a dying culture that avoids that reality with intentional ignorance.

>>17160737
> This is considered a slap-on-the-wrist offence by the Ministry of Magic

But it really isn't. Harry ran away from home immediately afterwards thinking he'd most definitely be expelled or even sent to Azkaban. The only reason he wasn't was because Sirius Black was on the loose, and the Ministry wanted Harry (a national hero and practically celebrity) where they could see him.

>So why is a quick death considered more reprehensible than a slow, torturous one?
Because the killing curse is a certain (well, except in one plot-armored case) death. There's no prancing around it. It's not a gunshot wound, which you could survive. It's all-out, you're dead. Not only that but the feelings that go into the spell, much like the torture curse, have to be of complete hatred.

It's not comparable to, say, a temporary slug-vomiting curse, or a mouth-closing jinx that could be fixed almost instantly.

>>17160762
Horcruxes are more powerful than phylacteries, because if voldemort/V'GER was killed, he wouldn't have to respawn IN SPACE.

But seriously, the way he 'defended' those horcruxes was lame as fuck. Not a single one was at the bottom of the ocean, or the ocean itself, or hidden away in a version of the Room of Requirement that would only open for people with green hair, or guarded by people with GUNS, etc, etc, etc.

>>17160805
But then the "good people of magical Britain" put people into a place that is *worse than death* on a regular basis (Azkaban).

>>17160765

Compare the first book with the last book. The first book actually got rejected, and would have had the benefit of workshops and rewrites. It is tightly written and an enjoyable read. By the time you get to the last book you can't tell me there was any kind of serious critique or editing involved outside of making sure the words were spelled correctly. She could do no wrong, the fan demand was so high, and there was so much money on the line that had to be made according to the marketing timetable that this last book was a terrific chore to read. Hiding, emoting, hiding, emoting, emoting, emoting, BIG BATTLE YOUR FAVORITE CHARACTERS DIE FOR CHEAP EMOTIONAL IMPACT. And it's over. Bam. Bitch just got tired of writing and ended the book. That's what I'm on about.

>>17160736
>>17160761
Well, Word of God says that the wizards would indeed have no chance, should the muggles ever find out about them on a grand scale.

So, /tg/.

The question now becomes:

Can we fix the setting?

>>17160845
Fix it for what? For a tabletop RPG?

With or without muggle PCs?

Can I use magic to summon thousands weapons and throw them?

>>17160835
only cause rowling is horrible at min-maxing

>>17160761
This is the one that always bugged me. We know that horcruxes don't put the user back together like phylacteries. It's a fairly important part of the series and makes up multiple plot points.

Why do they spend so much time and energy going after the horcruxes and almost being unable to stop Voldemort? Just off the fucker and use the next 10 years to find the horcruxes.

>>17160455
Overrated but otherwise acceptable.

>>17160827
>But seriously, the way he 'defended' those horcruxes was lame as fuck

I'll definitely give you that. The only one with any decent protection had already been stolen by Regulus Black.

It felt very much like a case of "I just had an idea! I'll write in a magical treasure hunt!" too late into the series.

>>17160829

I'll give you that, though to be fair the fate "worse than death" was considered the Dementor's kiss, not Azkaban itself.
I could have seen Azkaban existing during the height of Voldemort's power, in a very World War 2-esque sort of way, but in the modern day, it's definitely an atrocity.

>>17160845
I like where this thread is going.

>>17160863
>Just off the fucker and use the next 10 years to find the horcruxes.
That's not a bad point. I guess they were counting on Voldemort having supernatural prescience about threats. Except for Harry the Golden Boy's Hidden Powers, of course.

That and they're completely oblivious to muggle tech.

>>17160832
Truth.

Rowling's universe was actually a very fun and wonderful place to explore, from a childish perspective. Everything started falling apart when she brought it close to reality, because then the Ministry of Magic and it's magical paperwork are stuck in the same universe as a magic Hitler who employs werewolf rapists as his lieutenants. It just doesn't fit.

>>17160863
first problem is actually offing the guy

second problem, this time his followers would actually look for him like he'd hoped the first time

>>17160882
I'm pretty sure Hermione could have whipped up a few homing fission bombs, given an appropriate WIS score.

>>17160863

Just theorizing here. Perhaps Horcruxes are merely spiritual anchors that prevent the soul from departing. Once you die, and your spirit remains, the horcrux has done its job?

Killing Voldemort, then destroying the horcruxes would mean Voldemort's soul would still be around (though without anchors for the next time he resurfaces).

Again, just throwing shit out there.

In overall I feel that J.K. Rowling handles the way that the books' targeted audience grows up very well, in the first one, the kids actually depend on adults, in the last one they reject the help of other adults. I have read so many books with children as main characters where the children don't behave like children: Point in case would be the Bartholomew trilogy or other books where the child protagonist is essentially a genius.

The first book served its purpose, it introduced us to the whole universe, let the main characters develop a friendship.

The second book gave us a brief glimpse into the darker side of the magical universe.

The third book introduced us to a parent figure, and the concept of deceiving and betraying ones friends.

The fourth book... WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED IN THE FOURTH BOOK!!? Shit! This is the worst book in the series in my opinion. A huge tournament with more flaws in their rules, happens, apparently only to show how brilliant Harry is under pressure. The only point in this book that affects the remainder of the series is the fact that Voldemort returns and the Pensieve is introduced. Bonus in the film version: David Tennant!

>>17160805

Well, Harry's clearly an idiot. He doesn't have massive magical power, Azkaban isn't full of schoolkids who've had accidents, and other children are bound to have also lost their tempers. Also, the process was entirely reversible, which brings me to the second point.

While the digestive-tract-filling-inoxerably-with-slugs combo may be reversible, something like being decapitated via magic would not be. You can instakill people with other spells. The *only difference* between the killing spell and such spells is that a wizard would have to take cover instead of magically blocking it, and even then a sacrificial mother would do the job.

>>17160908
(continued)


The fifth book revealed the horror behind the corruption of power, that an institute that we were supposed to trust to protect us, may in fact never help us at all.

The sixth book was about Dumbledore teaching Harry how to defeat Voldemort, oh, and the fact the Snape killed Dumbledore. To teach Harry to be on his own.

The seventh book pretty much Harry being a rebel and fighting an evil system, giving us an inspiring tale of how to bring down the government. There is a lot of stuff and a lot of death, but most of all it is the book that is supposed to show Harry killing Voldemort which does happen.

There is far too little fluff in the Harry Potter saga to be the basis of a RPG. Or rather, the fluff is too irrelevant (ever seen the Chocolate Frog cards, those facts are extensive!!) to be usable.

So yeah, just my thoughts.

>>17160845
its 2010 muggles are starting to find out about wizards everywhere

why? Wizards have never followed new technology, they know nothing of computers and satellites, nor have any of their spells ever prepared them for digital imaging of areas

people are starting to find out not by seeing whats there, but by seeing that there should be something, wizards casting spells are put on the internet, out of reach of any mind-altering etc etc

the wizarding world will have to adapt to the new age quickly lest they vanish. However the older families are against this evolution while some of the younger wizards are openly questioning the masquerade

>Read Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality.
>MFW.

What an insufferable, arrogant, self-absorbed asshole. I hope whoever wrote this shit gets cancer and dies.

Harry Potter is an okay series and while I've never been really 'into' it, I think it's fairly decent fun.

>>17160832
Bitch made more money than she could spend and had the kind of power to force American movie industry to hire British actors for a seven picture deal, of course she didn't give a fuck. My point is the level of money she was making no editor cared. I'm saying they were children's books that were selling outside their target demo in massive numbers unlike any other book in said genre, how good the books were at that point was irrelevant to any editor, you proofread them and made sure they came out in a timely manner, how good they were as works of literary fiction ceased to matter at that point.

>>17160930
... you think the author's version of Harry is an author insert? Because it's not.

>>17160900
remember that while Hermione was smart, all of her logical, math and science education stopped at age 11

thats one hell of a learning deficiency


seriously why didn't they teach math at hoggwards to, it seems like something that would be useful even in a magical world. Especially compared to some of the other rather useless lessons they gave there

>or DESTROY EVERY SHIP FROM A HUNDRED MILLION MILES AWAY USING CLOAKED PROPES THAT TRANSPORT WARP PLASMA BOMBS ON BOARD ENEMY VESSELS.

This, and variations of it (such as why hard sci fi space battles would supposedly be lame) always irritates me.

They have made phaser vs borg battles exciting, which are quite possibly the most conceptually boring duels imaginable: a dude in pajamas firing a dustbuster-shaped energy weapon in the general direction of a techno-zombie, that leisurely wanders towards him. On board a borg ship, they even are sleepy and laggy as shit and let foreigners freely wander their vessel. Yet nonetheless growing up the borg inspired a great deal of dread in me.

You can make pretty much any kind of battle entertaining.

>>17160923
Isn't this close to Shadowrun, but with more garden gnomes and less Gibson?

>>17160947
They teach "arithmancy". Which is basically just geometry. Having access to magic has stunted their use of other things.

>>17160854
Fix the setting to not be so full of stuff that breaks when you examine it closely.

Probably dump most of the Hogwarts stuff, firstly.

Then consider why human/wizard worlds are split.

Then consider the requirements for magic, and its consequences (even if it's handwavy, it deserves better explanation, i.e. why do spells need to be cast as they are?).

Then consider wizard education and its failings/shortcomings.

Not sure what would come out of it, or if it's even possible to 'fix' the setting without ending up with Generic Fantasy World 87.

>>17160947

I always imagined they did teach Math, English, Social Studies and whatnot in Hogwarts as well, it's just, well, BORING compared to the other classes. Hell, I think there were only one or two scenes that took place in the History class.

People read Harry Potter for magic, not for math.

>>17160941
Rowling said herself Hermione was the closet character to her. Harry was based on a friend of hers and Ron was based on her husband/

>>17160972
>Then consider the requirements for magic, and its consequences (even if it's handwavy, it deserves better explanation, i.e. why do spells need to be cast as they are?).
I have no idea how to fix this without just throwing it out the window and starting from scratch.

>the kind of power to force American movie industry to hire British actors

Its not exactly hard for British actors to find work.

>>17160963
its pretty much what would happen though

you know how much wizards know about muggles and how much they care

and then suddenly the wizarding world has to learn how to protect themselves from youtube and google earth

can you imagine arthur having to learn how to use computers?

>>17160947
Not to mention that Harry and Hermione only received that 11-year old education in those subjects because they were raised by muggle families.

What about education for pure-blood wizards like Ron or Malfoy? Was that ever explained?

>>17160980
OK, I didn't know that, but we're talking about a well-known fanfic, not the original books.

>>17160975
no they gave us the class rosters in book 3 and 5

not a single hint of anything what so ever

all muggle knowledge essentially stops at age 11

>>17160990
>Was that ever explained?
I don't think so. Home-schooling?

What's with wizarding folk's cessation of formal education at the age of eleven?

Assuming they even got education up until then, a vast quantity, possibly all of them are incredibily disadvantaged, all they learn about is magic.

>>17160996
Damn, so they must be retarded or something.
How do they live amongst the muggles?

>>17161005
>all they learn about is magic.

They learn that they don't have to explain SHIT.

>>17161005
and since magic is both dangerous and most wizards seem to live for a long time wouldn't it make sense to introduce wizards to magical education at the age of 18 as to give them a valid choice in which world they'd rather live


getting the in the van with magical cookies at age 11 reeks of indoctrination to me

My one problem with HP is how poorly explained magic, it is essential and is the thing that drives the books yet it is vague, and has no constrains, it is a macguffin.
Also, she didn't flesh out the World accurately enough, there are lots of flaws and holes in it.

>>17161019
arthur weasly is one of the leading experts on muggles

he does not know how planes fly, how batteries work and has a hard time riding the subway

its a small miracle they remained undetected

>>17161005
...ninja'd

You fuckers.

>>17160959
>See the word ship
>Don't think of high sea sailing
>Don't think of intergalactic space battles
>Think of pairings in fictional works
Something has happened to me.
And I can't let it stand.

>>17161039
>its a small miracle they remained undetected
Lots and lots of memory charms and other mindfuckery.

>>17161019
They don't.

Things like television and phones are mysteries to them.

And, take into accoun the books are set in, what, the mid-80's I think? They didn't even have the internet then. Can you even imagine what kind of mess a wizard discovering 4chan would be like?

>>17161027
Maybe that's the point here?

Wizards are so out of it that they NEED to continue this system of under-education to indoctrinate their children to be Culturally Wizards instead of Culturally Muggles.

>>17161027
Holy shit, I never thought about that before. Offering children phenomenal cosmic power and the taking them away to a school to learn only that, nothing else. So that they can't function in the muggle world.

That's fucked up.

>>17161039
>arthur weasly is one of the leading experts on muggles

Eh, he worked in the Misuse of Muggle Artifacts office, and studied muggle things in his off time.

When you can make stuff fly around by waving your wand, the idea of air going over a pair of wings to achieve lift might just go over your head.

Same with batteries. Everything they have runs on magic. What the hell is this "power" everyone speaks of?

>we never see the north american or chinese School of magic

>>17160736

>10 years after muggles learn magic...

No. Just flat no. It's impossible. You HAVE to be a wizard to have magic. I mean, fuck, there's a whole subclass of wizard that can't do magic: The Squib. You can either do it, or you can't. No in betweens.

Man, Dumbledore was an asshole.

He knew about the Dursleys abusing Harry, yet he didn't do shit about that.

>>17160923
And then one ladies man from Wales found someone who could save the magical world.

Using only the size of his charisma.

And kung fu/laser beams. Lots of kung fu/laser beams.

>>17161025
math seems useful when calculating what potions they have to make

all we saw of potions classes was some kind of hybrid between cooking and simplified chemistry with mostly following the books

I'd imagine someone with a phd in experimental chemistry could quickly create a set of laws for potion making and experimenting which, by application of the scientific method, could easily lead to extremely powerful and varied potions


or what about applying biotechnology to magical plants

>>17161067
The NA school claims it killed Voldemort.
Chinese school is full of boys.

>>17161071
Dude, all you need is a midochlorian transplant.

>>17161071
And yet none of the wizards, ever, have tried to understand WHY some people can do magic and others can't. Haven't even TRIED. Even with all the squibs who would want that shit figured out.

Muggles would isolate what matters, synthetically recreate it, and amplify it.

>>17161067
An American magic society is mentioned. I like to think that they adapted much better to the modern world.

>>17161086
Harry Potter: Human Revolution

>>17160923
>Reverse time
>stop them from taking pictures

>>17160986
the only reason all the Potter films star british actors is because she forced that point, hell she could have demanded they be animated movies if she wanted (god knows I would have if I were her.) my point was she had the kind of power she could demand something that specific as a part of getting the movie options and Hollywood gave it to her.

>>17161066
Do wizards know of muggle culture? Like Beethoven, Da Vinci etc or were they wizards?

Honestly, wizads sound like a bunch of pompous, lazy, stupid, ignorant heathens.

>>17160998
That makes a bit of sense, since wizarding education doesn't start for 11 years, so the little kids have fuck-all to do otherwise. But who instructs? Wizards know next to nothing about the muggle world as it is. Plus I doubt every wizarding family could afford to hire a tutor (the Malfoys probably could, but the Weasleys couldn't, especially with so many kids).

>>17161065
and don't forget this

they only tell the kids they can't use magic outside of school at the end of the year after they already gave up everything else

AND the kids only get to see their parents for a short time limiting their exposure to the muggle world at about 3 months a year at maximum

>>17161086

>Muggles would isolate what matters, synthetically recreate it, and amplify it.

... and turn it into a viral agent that will horribly kill anyone with even a trace of magical ability.

And of course they realize what a horrible mistake this is when the Dementors break fucking loose and kill fucking everything.

...

What ARE the Dementors, anyway? It's never explained, and they're literally the worst thing in the entire series - and this includes Wizard Hitler.

>>17161086
Are you even sure magic can be synthesized? I mean, what would you look for? What causes magic? Where is the Fuck Reality gene?

>>17161082
the grim reality is the barrier between the worlds exists more to protect the magic users because of how stunted they are as a society from magic easy fixing everything. or more simply the muggles could do magic better than the wizards due to scientific process and theory.

>>17161096
they can't do that since it would fuck up the timescale way to hard if they went back to far

and by the time the wizards figure out we have something called a computer and that its dangerous we're probably mid 2000's, to late for them to do anything

>>17161071
Well, Wizards are no citizens of any recognized country, no one really knows anything about them and it's arguable if they are really part of the Homo Sapiens Sapiens species.
Give it a few years of horrible experiments and there's a good chance scientists found out what makes a wizard a wizard and duplicate it.

>>17160972
>Probably dump most of the Hogwarts stuff, firstly.

True. An explanation for this could be that Hogwarts got way too destroyed in book seven - assuming our "setting" is post-HP7. If our setting is pre-HP7, we need to determine how much pre-HP7 it is. I remember Harry Potter taking place in the 1980'es. So our best guess would be post-HP7 by 30 years:

Harry is an old man and the wizard war is almost forgotten leading the era of wizardry up to a new enemy: Muggles are finding out. Satellite pictures, mobile phone pictures, social networking is spreading the knowledge of these places. But no one actually knows what it is, only that SOMETHING exist.
Amongst the wizards there is a feel of fear. Some argue that they need to fight the muggles, other argue they should open up for the muggles and a third group argue that they should try to hide better.

(To be continued)

>>17161115
>Implying we won't clone and weaponise wizard brains that produce spells when electronically stimulated in certain ways as well as place them around Azkaban.

Also as mentioned in prior threads, just hand out Ecstasy pills.

>>17161086

....magic, byotich. It don't gotta 'splain shit.

And I'm pretty sure that the first squib to a famous person got an uproar, and the Wizards trying to work out what the fuck happened.

There's a decent possibility it's nonreplicatable.

>>17161083
>>17161087
There goes my theory that NA followed the apprenticeship method.

>>17161137
(continued)
>Then consider why human/wizard worlds are split.

I remember it being something a long the lines of "Muggles would use magic to solve mundane tasks" but that is bullshit. Mrs. Weasley uses magic to do her cooking anyway, so why shouldn't we? Besides, the Wizards have their own slaves - houseelves who would gladly do anything.

So yeah, a new reason is needed. Probably: "They would be scared and try to fight us" or something about leading it into a new age of witch hunts.

>Then consider the requirements for magic, and its consequences (even if it's handwavy, it deserves better explanation, i.e. why do spells need to be cast as they are?).

Probably a combination of: <THINKING ABOUT WHAT YOU WANT TO HAPPEN>+<MOVEMENT OF WAND FOR SPELL WANTED>+<WORDS UTTERED PRECISELY>

(to be continued)

>>17161086

All muggles have to do to get the wizard gene is fuck wizards.

If you have wizarding blood, you're almost guaranteed to be a wizard. Squibs are exceedingly rare.

>>17161138

The chems in X don't simulate happiness the way the chems in chocolate do, though.

On the plus side, we know that the Dementor's effect can be chemically countered.

>>17161144
(continued)

>Then consider wizard education and its failings/shortcomings.

Assuming they are not taught stuff that an ordinary muggle would be taught in school, the answer is obvious.
Other than that, why are they issued staffs that allow them to attack each other? If I had a wand when I was 11 years old, damn I'd have attacked other people, or they would have attacked me (I was bullied).

>Not sure what would come out of it, or if it's even possible to 'fix' the setting without ending up with Generic Fantasy World 87.

It probably is, but it requires a lot of work.

(Not to be continued)

>>17161116
SCIENCE! is far stronger than any magic.

>>17161115
You know, Nier was set in a world that had had magic injected violently into the world. Then people fucked with it so badly that it caused the earth to stop turning, fucked physics royally, and created a plague that wiped all humans out by turning them into salt.

What I'm saying is, maybe don't muck about with magic.

>>17161138

>Also as mentioned in prior threads, just hand out Ecstasy pills.

Ecstasy won't help you when a demonic ghost monster is trying to SUCK OUT YOUR SOUL.

>>17161130
also because magic is stagnant while science is starting to one-up magic

take communication. The fastest ways for wizards to communicate are: sending it by owl, putting your head into a fireplace and hoping there's someone on the other side or sending a spiritual animal to deliver it for you

meanwhile muggles got smartphones

>>17161147

Chocolate only helps with the after effects and recovery. It doesn't do much when that sucker is sitting on your chest, prying your mouth open.

>>17161093
I was doing a simple job in security detail that day. Nothing special. Hell, it wasn't even a dangerous mission. Or it wasn't supposed to be. I only noticed their cloaks billowing in the wind when it was too late. I shouted out at them, but all I got in response was flashes of red and green. And then silence.

When I woke up, I was in a laboratory. I could hardly move due to the pain in my entire body, but I did manage to get a look at my right hand.

It wasn't my hand anymore. It had been replaced with someone else's, amputated at the shoulder.

I was left in the lab for hours, feeling my bones stitch together and regrow. I'd never felt pain like that before: the very bone of my arm slithering about and throbbing in erratic growth.

When it all ended, they told me I had the arm of a wizard. That I could cast spells and do magic. That they would teach me, and I would become the greatest security detail ever. I listened to them with deaf ears.

I never asked for this.

>>17160455

One thing I liked about the last movie:

In the book, Harry gives this retarded speech, and Voldemort goes ahead anyway.

In the movie, it *is* a clash of willpower - It also implies that Voldemort's willpower falters at the crucial moment, because his snake got killed. So Harry *does* end up murdering Volde.

>>17161116
it's more a difference in the cultures. Wizard society is 'it's magic we don't got to explain shit' and has been for so many generations. Wizards have trouble grasping the scientific side of muggle tech, while muggle logic can work into magic. For example a muggle might think to apply electric magic to provide the current to power a machine, but a wizard would try to just magic the machine into working.

Well, if magic could not be replicated through science, I'm thinking there will be more than a few regular people who will go crazy and form some anti-Wizard groups out of jealousy and hate.

>>17161147
>On the plus side, we know that the Dementor's effect can be chemically countered.

Only after the fact though. People attacked by dementors don't start choking down chocolate. Happy thoughts won't save you, but happy thoughts and a decent patronus? sure.

>>17161134
that makes me wonder

do wizards have passports?

>>17161157
Okay, so the soul exist. This is canon fact. So, what dose this mean, and what the FUCK are Dementors?

>>17160987

No, because it's stated in side booklets that wizards have had magic in place to prevent that exact thing happening for YEARS and a team working around the clock to stop it from happening.

We never see this in action because it is not about Magic vs Technology and once you make this about a bunch of dudes with guns hunting down wizards the actual main characters become irrelevant.

>>17161173
Of course, that kind of falls flat when in both cases, the Elder Wand was nerfing Voldemort's power.

It becomes "Boy, Harry is sure lucky the Elder Wand was with him and not the Dark Lord, or else he'd be fucked."

>>17161182

Nastyass shit you wanna keep the fuck away from.

Just think, all it would take is one studious Muggle student to keep up with the Sciences during school at Hogwarts, maybe do summer school or something then go onto a BSc at uni, before dogoing on to a Doctorate.

>>17161177
we also know thats its possible to resist many spell effects, including the dementors', by pure willpower alone

something a muggle could easily be trained in thanks to an ungodly larger resource pool

(cfr: sirius black, couteracting imperius curse)

>>17161188
Also, Love as a spell came back. It seems to be pretty canon that Magic favors the Good Guys.

>>17161193
How could you even get a science degree when you know, FOR A FACT, that everything you are being taught is wrong.

>>17161199

Yes, but it's impossible to resist the Dementor's kiss by willpower, and that's the worst weapon in their arsenal. The Avada Kedavra at least has the advantage of sending the soul onward, to whatever afterlife there is. The Kiss... the Kiss is nasty.

>>17161199

>we also know thats its possible to resist many spell effects, including the dementors', by pure willpower alone

>including the dementors',

What? Fuck no. The ONLY way to get around their shit is magic, and even then, it can fuck up bad.

>>17161150

Yeah, what I did like about Neir is humanity saw Pandora's Box in magic, and, without the obvious danger of say the nuclear spark, threw that shit WIDE OPEN and had two facefuls of apocolypse before it even knew it was dead.

Which seems about right.

>>17161182
Maybe there is no magic gene. If the soul exist, maybe magic is contained within that.

>>17161187
there's only a very limited number of wizards and the general attitude of them towards muggles is "don't care"

that combined with how efficient the magical government works and how quickly the wizarding world is to react on new inventions (very poorly) do you honestly think they could find out how to magic away someone uploading a picture to the internet

heck most wizards wouldn't even be capable of visualizing the concept of "data" and start attacking individual computers which does fuckall

>>17161219
the biotechnological branch now knows souls exist and can be experimented on

just how long till they either fuck up for everyone or discover a shitload

>>17161193
They wouldn't allow it, they pull the children out of the muggle world and into theirs, they remove you from technology as much as they can to fall into habit of using the magic. I'm sure you could try but there's no doubt a darker side to the barrier the wizard has where if you seem to dangerously stirring the pot (by say doing the things you suggest) they probably do anything from monitor your houses to flat out brainwashing it out of you. Didn't Hermione mindwipe a bunch of stuff out of her parents head?

>>17161228
I would love to see that first press conference, when the ministry finally realizes that they have been completely outclassed in almost every way.

>>17161193

Yes, but he wouldn't need to because MAGIC.

He doesn't need to know physics because from the age of eleven HE CAN FLY. Why learn about biology when you can make and unmake living creatures after two months of effort? Who the fuck cares about Gym Class when by the time you graduate you have the ability to teleport literally anywhere in the world?

MAGIC makes the need for science irrelevant. You don't need to deal with guns because you have a wand to hide and can just apparate away if things get too hot to handle.

It's one thing to shoot a stationary wizard shouting spells.

It's another to shoot a teleporting wizard with an invisibility cloak who can use silent or non wand based magic.

>>17161228

The ONE thing Wizards seem competent at all on is keeping themselves hidden.

I mean, fuck, they worked out a spell that means if you are nonmagic, you simply wander away from an area, and the place will not stay on a map, no matter what you do.

>>17161213
sirius black escaped simply because he was capable of resisting their effect

dementors drain magic and he didn't have a wand, all he did was remain sane through sheer determination and being thin enough as dog to wiggle out of his cell

a human could be taught to resist in a similar way having the advantage of not being locked up in a place with hundreds of them

>>17161253
So, what happens when people start noticing slices of land that aren't where they should be?

>>17161274
They don't notice.

>>17161249
>guns
Your argument fully encapsulates the wizard mindset, but also the problems with it. Wizards would always be stuck in a glorified medieval state. Wizards are always, essentially, 3rd world citizens on crack. They can take care of chickens REALLY FUCKING WELL and go for REALLY FUCKING HARDCORE walks and live in AMAZING castles, but no wizard will ever go to the moon. No wizard will ever participate in the creation of a global economy.

>>17161249
invisibility cloaks were invented by ancient wizards who hardly know anything about how light works and since the object is still physically there(invisibility cloaks can be defeated by a simple measure as throwing talk powder ontop of it) it would most likely show up on other EM spectra simply cause no wizard even knows what the fuck a photon is


and muggle technology is outstripping wizards magic in a lot of ways. The teleportation is dangerous and cannot be done in rapid succession to much because of that

>>17161281
While looking at Google Earth? Wizard don't even know the internet is a thing, and they can't just magic it. That'd be like magicking the entire world.

>>17161264

Sirius Black is the ONLY escapee. Sirius Black is also one of the very few people able to turn into an animal.

Out of the entire population of Azkaban in the entire history of it's operation he is the ONE guy who set foot outside for any length of time of his own power. Not just "got out and not get caught" but "got out at all".

>>17161281
there's spells to make it not show up on maps

I seriously doubt any wizard ever took into consideration just what a current day muggle could do to try and intercept them

>>17161287
Not to mention that wizards can only pull their shenanigans if they know you're there. As somebody once said: "My warhead does not distinguish between rifraff" (although by 'warhead' they meant 'sniper rifle')

>>17161264

Muggles cannot see dementors. Does this help or hinder their resistance?

I never read the books, still haven't seen either part of Deathly Hallows. I've enjoyed the films for what they are, but I do have to say something about wizards: no matter how evil or creepy you look you can never look like a true bad-ass holding a tiny little stick ever so delicately in your hand. Seriously; ditch the wands and find something more awesome.

>>17161264
>dementors drain magic

What? No they don't. They drain your happiness when you're close to them. Sirius was really only able to regain his sanity after he escaped (he was fucking looney before, and simply driven to escape and prove his innocence). And the only reason he escaped is because he was an unregistered animagus, and the Dementor's happiness-draining powers are less effective against non-humans.

And for the record, there's no "resisting" the Kiss. You patronus, you run, or you die.

>>17161264

Sirius' thing was something about having a thought to hold onto that was important but not happy, so that he could focus on that instead of re-living the worst moments of his life over and over again for eternity.

Which is slightly, but importantly, different from "sheer determination", in that the determination is predicated upon a particularly powerful emotional drive.

>>17161303
Exactly. They don't show up. Wouldn't you wonder about all those pieces of land that should be there, but aren't?

>>17161297

Any place that's hidden by magic (such as Hogwarts) pretty much looks to muggles like a barren field, maybe with some inconspicuous bit of trash. It wouldn't look any different than the surrounding environment with satellites. The magic only needs to kick in when some bigshot decides to build a mall where the school is. At that point, he'd be hit with the spell while he's surveying the land and probably have a change of heart.

>>17161253
they're actually pretty bad at it, until the 80's they could just come by with quickly erasing memories each time they fucked up

however once everyone and their mother has a cellphone that can take pictures and upload them to the internet before a wizard even had time to yell some pseudo-latin, those days are over

the only way they could keep it hidden was mass mindcontroll of every single government on the planet. Which I doubt the wizarding world would do

>>17161297

No, but they obviously know about sattalite images or the jig would be up right now. They just have to say

"I want THIS location to be unplottable on a map within these peramiters"

And it gets done. They had entire goddamned islands hidden during the entire cold war and have agents in every major government.

You are not pulling a fast one on wizards. This is their entire THING.

>>17161319
What you're looking for is a staff, my good sir. And Hagrid's umbrella proves that such action is possible.

Also:
>What if you put more than one core in a wand?

>>17161303

>I seriously doubt any wizard ever took into consideration just what a current day muggle could do to try and intercept them

Aaannnd....what's the paired effect to those? That's right. They make you not notice.

>>17161319

Mad-Eye Moody used a staff.

It's just a tool to channel magical energy.

They're the Twilight of their time. That's really all there's to it.

Both fall apart when you look at the seams.

I never liked Harry Potter, and couldn't even finish watching the first movie. The books? Very terribly written, but sometimes endearing. Characters and dialogue get better later on, then decline steeply once she became immune to editors.

>>17161320
Worse, everything that is you is eaten and digested.

Just to reminded everyone, This is a creature that wizards not only ALLOW TO EXIST, but employ. If muggles ever found out about Azcaban, there would be human rights trials. I mean, how do you justify that place?