Meh, who cares. Let the woman do what she wants.

early stage abortions no different from any other form of birth control, but third trimester abortions are kinda fucked up.

At how early does the baby feel pain?
I see that all the time "OHH BUT IT R FEEL IT" but I never thought it felt any till way later in development.

anything before they learn to speak is acceptable

Don't get your sperm in your vagina if you don't want it.

abortion seems scienfically possible

Who cares? Let everyone do anything every time,

OP here, I honestly do not see what is wrong with it.
It is no worse than eating fish eggs or really any kind of egg.
It is purely the womens choice, and they should not have to be told whether or not they can or cannot be able to do it.

parents should be able to abort their child up until it turns 18.

>>892968

Sound advice for any hermaphrodites browsing 4chan.

I think that the father should be able to sign a form that basically says "I wish to get an abortion and forfeit all rights to see the child if the mother chooses not to abort and I will not in any way be financially obligated to support the child"

>>893017

This would be fucking great.

>>893026

Fuck yeah it would

>>893064
+1

anybody who gets an abortion is obviously a dirty fish smelling whore.

1st trimester or before: There is no logical reason to be against it. There is absolutely no brain function or consciousness, period. No brain waves. No nothing.

2nd trimester: Still illogical to be against, since there is no real consciousness, but the reflexes work at this point, giving the appearance of a reaction to pain (but the brain still isn't functional, so they aren't actually feeling anything).

3rd trimester to birth: Understandable to be against, but I still am okay with it. I more-so just look the other way when this argument is brought up.

So, For 6 months and before, I am 100% for it, and I actually support abortions in cases where the mother is too young or isn't financially/mentally/emotionally secure. From 6 to 9 months...I'm okay with it, but less willing to argue for it, and wouldn't really care if THAT was illegalized.

There is no reason to be against abortions during the first 3 months, only a little bit of reason to be against it from 3 to 6 months, and a fair amount of reason to be against 6-9 months.

>>893113
Me again.

I completely support this:
>>893017

I think that they are generally not a good thing.

But if we are to accept abortion we must also accept the ideas put forth in this article.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1173414,00.html

>>893113
That makes sense. I wonder if the people who are so against it know that.

>>893113
>No nothing.
so there is something?

>>893017
Should have thought of that before you came in a girl's vagina. You did the crime, you do the time.

"Personal responsibility? What's that?"

>>893178
under that reasoning abortions should not be allowed

>>893147

don't you try to double negative me son. it won't not work. not no way. not no how,

>>893197
>it won't not work
SUCCESS!

>>892917
i ａ L Ｒ Ｅ Ａ d Y Ｒ ｅ ａ ｄ T ｈ I ｓ O n h T t ｐ : / / 8 8 . 8 0 . 2 1 . 1 2 / S Ｅ v Ｅ R a Ｌ D A ｙ s ａ g Ｏ

>>893178
So let me get this straight:

A woman can get an abortion or give her kid up for adoption, and doesn't have to pay for 18 years of child support either way if she doesn't want to, but a man's fate is left to the woman?

Not only that, if the man WANTS the child, the woman can abort it all she wants and not pay the man compensation at all.

Right now, the system is completely biased towards the woman. It's bullshit.

Allow the man to "abort" his status as the father, and it will be more fair. Far more fair.

>>893237

Only faggots in high school and rednecks actually think this.

>>893249
>faggots in high school and rednecks
Funny, those are the 2 groups of people that never have to worry about abortions.

>>893249

I'm neither and can see where he;s coming from. I said it to my gf. we agreed I was a dick.

thankfully shes on the pill and abortion happy so it aint my prob any way.

>>893237
A man's fate is his own. Definitely don't want a kid? Don't have sex then. Accidentally got pregnant? Well, too bad, shouldn't have sex. Have a girl that won't listen? Be a man and make her listen. Personal responsibility.

>>893291Be a man and make her listen

Exactly! It's time we brought back old fashioned family values like beating women.

>>892915
S ｕ p ｅ ｖ ｅ r Y Ｏ n ｅ j U S t ｗ A Ｎ T ｅ D Ｔ ｏ Ｔ E L ｌ u T h Ａ ｔ C H R Ｉ ｓ t Ｏ Ｐ Ｈ ｅ Ｒ p O O L e Ａ K Ａ Ｍ ｏ Ｏ Ｔ Ａ k a Ｕ R A Ｄ M Ｉ Ｎ ｈ a ｓ a M e Ｎ ｔ ａ Ｌ ｉ l ｌ n E s Ｓ Ｄ ｏ N T ｓ Ｕ ｐ p Ｏ r Ｔ p s ｙ Ｃ H o Ｓ ｊ o I N ｔ h Ｅ b e S t Ｆ ｏ r U Ｍ : h ｔ t p : / / 8 8 . 8 0 . 2 1 . 1 2 /

>>893291
>A man's fate is his own.
Except if a man chooses to not financially support a child. He is punished, by law, for NOT doing something.

>>893237
I do agree, it is completely biased toward the woman. And as fucked up as it would be to just forfeit your father rights, the woman does the same thing to her mother rights.

>>893271

Wow u mean a real live girl has that opinion? Never mind, I have definitely been bested! AND she's ur gf??? Whoa dude ur a lucky man.

Sorry that biology and evolution don't hold water in the current sociopolitical climate but you are both idiots.

I think that ALL women should have tubal ligations when they're young (before they become fertile). Any time ANYONE wants to become pregnant they need to go to a hospital that can perform a medical procedure in which one of her eggs is removed, fertilized with the baby batter of her choice, and implanted into her.

Opt-in fertility.

>>893271
>I said it to my gf. we agreed I was a dick.

no she agreed you were a dick you whipped piece of shit.


I got a girl pregnant when I was 19 and she wanted to keep it and it took me MONTHS of relentless manipulation and a marriage proposal to convince her to get an abortion. I said I loved her, that the timing wasn't right but we should have kids once I was done with school, we would live happily ever after, never gonna give you up, let you down etc etc.

Then I picked her up from the abortion clinic, paid the 800 bucks (best investment of my entire life), dropped her off at her moms house and was like kthxbai. Last I heard she tried to kill herself, if I had just been able to sign away my responsibility I wouldn't have had to mentally destroy her like that.

>>893017
For every time you have sex? That seems inconvenient

>>893312
Cool strawman bro.

>>893322
It's your child. You chose to have it (by having sex), YOU pay for it. Don't want to pay for it? Then you shouldn't have had sex! PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!

>>893333
You...are...my...hero.

>>893328

I have no idea what side you're on.

>>893329
>expensive, cumbersome procedure to reproduce
>would prevent poor-ass welfare leeches from spawning
imokaywiththis.jpg

>>893349
Exactly! If you can't afford a medical procedure of that nature, you can not afford a child.

>>893339
>It's your child. You chose to have it (by having sex), YOU pay for it. Don't want to pay for it? Then you shouldn't have had sex! PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!
say that to a woman at an abortion clinic and see what happens.

>>893329
Medical fags get in here! Is this even feasible?

>>892918
Ｉ a Ｌ ｒ ｅ A D Y r E A d ｔ H Ｉ S Ｏ Ｎ H T Ｔ Ｐ : / / 8 8 . 8 0 . 2 1 . 1 2 / s E v e R a L d ａ ｙ ｓ A G O

>>893178
And what if she lied about being on birth control? or condom breaks? or after she got pregnant she lost her job?

>>893339
Abstinence isn't showing personal responsibility. An abstinent world is a horrible, dead world to live in. Not everyone is content fapping to the thought of how much Jesus loves them all day.

Personal responsibility is the willingness to do the responsible thing when someone gets pregnant: abort it!

>>893365

Psst... did u kno that life isn't fair?

>>893354

It's a damn good idea. but it'll never happen.

even though it makes perfect sense.

people argue its a right to reproduce. thats true. but if you cant afford to support a child then the state has to pay for your childs upbringing.

so only have kids IF you can prove you can support it.

FUCK YOU OCTOMOM

>>893371
THIS. FUCKING THIS.

>>893357

No not really because trying to do invasive procedures like that on a newborn are pretty dangerous and have long term side effects.

>>893377
>Psst... did u kno that life isn't fair?
But the law is required to be fair.

My view of abortion is this: let the woman have the abortion after being counseled of other alternatives if the abortion is planed before the 3rd trimester. This requirement can be waived if the pregnancy is a danger to her life.

After the 3rd trimester the abortion can be done only if there is a danger to her life, rape, or incest.

>>893393

ZING

abortion is good. it gets really fucked up and wrong the longer you wait. its realy bad once its out.

>>893389

It could be done anytime before puberty.

>>893393

Where in the fuck did you get that idea?

Hmm...It's wierd how religious people want to dictate what others do with their bodies. Let women abort

>>893402

So you're saying that you are thinking all women will voluntarily go into whatever clinic? Or do you propose creating a DEA like government agency to go around checking and enforcing these new laws you want to create?

Seems easier to me to just wear a rubber...

>>893394

This is where I stand. Mainly on the grounds that 2 trimesters is more than enought time to find out your preg and decide what to do.

and of course once your into the third trimester the fetus is quite developed. I've seen a legit aborted late term fetus in the flesh. DAMN THAT SHITS HOT!

>>893403
This crazy piece of paper I came across one day.

>>893393

What in any of those examples has ANYTHING to do with law?

>>893403

OH No where in particular

>>893371
I don't argue semantics.

We're not talking about the girl, we're talking about you. It's her choice whether or not to abort it, and since all women are illogical and their hormones go into overdrive when pregnant it can be impossible to convince her to abort it.

Abortion should not be a means of birth control. Why not just give it up for adoption? Why do you feel the need to simply abort it?

>>893423

Wow, you start out arguing that men should not have to pay for a child they are 50% responsible for and you end it by posting a .jpg of the constitution, you really are hilarious.

>>893418

people get vaccines without a second thought. (unless there wingnuts)

I cant see why this couldn;t eventually become a normal thing to do

>>893423

Point out exactly where in the text it says that actual laws themselves are guaranteed to be fair plz

>>893365
Don't have sex if you're not willing to risk such things.

>>893440
Probably something to do with that "all men are created equal" thing

>>893434
>they are 50% responsible
yet have 0% control of the end result and have no legal recourse

>>893444
Or just sign a piece of paper saying that in case of odd circumstances, your not responsible if shes an idiot and wants to have a baby, and wants to make you pay for it

>>893444
same can be said to women
therefore abortion should be illegal
your logic is self defeating

>>893434
They aren't really 50% responsible for it if they wanted it aborted and the woman CHOSE to have it.

>>893365And what if she lied about being on birth control?

What's really fucked up is when she lied about being on birth control and the father still has to pay for it. IMO in those cases the bitch should be prosecuted for fraud and forced to abort.

>>893448
EXACTLY. the framers of the constitution knew women were dumb.
Niggers < women < white guys

>>893457
>Or just sign a piece of paper
hahahaohwow.jpg

that would never hold up in court

>>893439

Because it infringes on a whole host of personal freedoms for one. Second, the procedure is a lot more dangerous than a vaccine, and there is no guarantee of being able to reverse it later in life. Third, a program like this would DRASTICALLY raise the rate of STD transmission. Fourth, it's a whole lot more expensive than condoms are. Fifth, there are A LOT of businesses that make money over contraceptives, this new law would cause a lot of economic turmoil over the next few years. All because you don't want to wear a condom and 'protect' the .00005 percent of men who get a woman pregnant by breaking a condom.

I mean I'm not really sure where to start....

>>893472
Depends on how good of a jew you have

>>893472that would never hold up in court

It does when a prostitute gets pregnant in some locations. Not everywhere though.

>>893418
But if the rubber breaks or the birth control fails or the woman LIES ABOUT BEING ON BIRTH CONTROL, the man should have the ability to say, "Hey, I'll pay for the abortion, but that is it. If you choose to keep it, I won't be a part of it. At all. Period. No child support, no visitation rights, no anything."

Why screw over an extra person just because the woman is being retarded? You don't see guys being forced to pay child support for kids born from their sperm donations, do you?

>>893429
Believe it or not, some women want to avoid the pain of childbirth to produce a child they do not want, and therefore abortion is a viable option.

>>893464
>forced to abort.

I still don't know whether people actually mean these things or whether they say it for shock value. Kids.

>>893482

That is an extremely naive opinion to have and borderline blackmail.

>>893475

yeah man.. but it just feels better without one!

>>893475Third, a program like this would DRASTICALLY raise the rate of STD transmission.

WHY DO CHRISTFAGS ALWAYS SAY THIS WHENEVER BIRTH CONTROL COMES UP. THERE HAS NEVER BEEN ANY STUDY THAT BACKS THIS SHUT THE FUCK UP.

>Fourth, it's a whole lot more expensive than condoms are.

Not in the long run unless you actually want to have a child. I'm certain I've spent more on condoms in my lifetime than a tubal ligation costs and I'm 25.

>Fifth, there are A LOT of businesses that make money over contraceptives, this new law would cause a lot of economic turmoil over the next few years.

Contraception is NOT the thing holding our economy up. Things become obsolete and pharmaceutical companies make other products, they'll live.

>All because you don't want to wear a condom and 'protect' the .00005 percent of men who get a woman pregnant by breaking a condom.

No, all because so many people are too stupid to properly use condoms and they have millions of retard babies that they don't want and I don't want to pay for.

>>893483
She shouldn't have had sex then. Abortion is not a means of birth control.

And besides, there are c-section operations.

>>893488
>>893484
BAWWWWWWWW a woman should never be encouraged to remove the flesh tumor from her because she might have already developed feelings for the little pile of skin

Not to mention you could argue that sleeping with a woman is to enter into a quasi-legal contract with her over whatever ramifications result, reproduction is a possible scenario and if you are participating in sex than you know that, if you don't then you are most likely mentally retarded and probably won't have to pay child support. So you can't fuck her and then try to withdraw from your contractual obligations.

>>893496
Ahh yes... caesarians completely painless, keeps the pregnancy from destroying your body, and doctors are always willing to give you one whether you need it or not

>>893484
>>893488

Anon never said anything about forced abortion
It was "you can have the kid, but i want nothing to do with it, since your a lieing bitch (About birth control). If you want ill pay for the abortion tho.."

>>893505Not to mention you could argue that sleeping with a woman is to enter into a quasi-legal contract with her

That's why I never have sex with a woman without my lawyer present.

fetus = human
human has right to life and liberty
theres lots of arguements to say when a fetus becomes a human or "is alive" well thats retarted they were alive when they were still an egg and a sperm but we dont worry about killing thoose

my personal opinion is that once their heart stops beating they shouldnt be aborted.

while i personally believe this i also feel uncomfortable making it illegal.

so the fact is its a difficut topic
if we are going to call abortion murder then is the morning after pill murder i personally dont feel so but i know people who might disagree.

so its fukin complicated what do we do?
well i personally believe women have a choice
A CHOICE NOT TO FUCKING HAVE UNPROTECTED SEX
if you fuck around and get pregnant then you have a moral obligation to carry that baby to term unless it endangers your life

again this is my opinion and i know there're those who disagree with me and that's fine you are entitled to your opinion.

full disclosure im a guy i will never be faced with this decision BUT i would never have unprotected sex with a girl who wasn't my wife and we were prepared to have children i would never want to be the reason a girl has to make that choice

>>893496
Well of course it's not; it costs hundreds of dollars.

But in a last-case scenario, it should be an option to avoid, you know, CHILDBIRTH.

>>893513
that's kinda kinky

>>893509
No, read back through it. I did say forced to abort on the grounds that the man's DNA is his personal intellectual property. To reproduce his genetic intellectual property without his express permission is a violation of his rights and she should have to pay a fee not exceeding $3000 for every copy made of his genetic material.

>>893517
For the most part, a fetus is equivalent to a plant

>>893517my personal opinion is that once their heart stops beating they shouldnt be aborted.

Once their heart stops beating there isn't much need...

>>893517
>fetus = human
No.

It has no functional brain, why consider it "alive"? The heart may be beating, but there is no consciousness, no brainwaves, it is less of a person than Terry Schaivo.

>>893506
Oh, okay. Well if you put it that way, I suggest this: Don't have sex.

>>893502
>>893493

lol i'm very pro-choice and my ex and me have gotten an abortion before.

>WHY DO CHRISTFAGS ALWAYS SAY THIS WHENEVER BIRTH CONTROL COMES UP. THERE HAS NEVER BEEN ANY STUDY THAT BACKS THIS SHUT THE FUCK UP.

Are you seriously saying that removing a major reason for wearing a condom wouldn't cause rates of STDs to sky rocket? What the fuck studies are there that prove this wrong? Look at the AIDS epidemic in Africa where they don't use condoms for christ's sake. If you want an example of it in America look at catholics who have way higher than normal rates of STD transmission due to not wearing condoms.

Fuck dude I can't believe how retarded you are, I'm not even going to bother with your other points.

>>893527
OH YOU

>>893520

My gf got an insert called a coil. costs 400 euro works for 8 years. shits awesome. if you want kds suddenly it can be removed at any time. reproductive ability returns the next month.

>>893517
>bawwww. why doesn't everyone else love jesus as much as i do?

>>893517
Protip: no birth control method is 100% effective

Odd that the same people that will tell you abstinence is 100% effective are the same people that claim that a virgin gave birth...

>>893496
>shouldn't have had sex then
this a thousand times this.
if you aren't prepared for the POSSIBILITY you might get pregnant (condoms break ect)
then you shouldn't be having sex

>>893535
>catholics who have way higher than normal rates of STD transmission
[citation needed]

>>893538
Oh, and I agree, but not all girls have this, and not all girls can safely have one (like with the pill, some girls can't have them without getting really sick).

What they really need is a reversible or temporary vasectomy, or some other form of male birth control that is 99.9999% effective. Then there'd be no excuse.

>>893540
.45 caliber usually does the trick for me

My personal view is that if you get pregnant, you should chose to have the kid because there's something to be said for the right to life, responsibility, and adoption.

But at the same time, I would never ever go along with a law that prevented people from getting one if they wanted to.

>>893540

in fairness abstinence is 100 percent effective... unfortunately the stats say that 99 percent of those promise ring faggots will havesex before marriage. AND due to the fact they tend to have poorer sex ed. they were more likely to have unprotected sex.

>>893543
The ONLY fucking reason your saying this is cuzz you were a virgin until you were 20+, faggot.

>>893543
>if you don't want to get hit by a car, don't ever leave your house. ever. if you do, it's YOUR fault for leaving the house.

>>893543
>if you aren't prepared for the POSSIBILITY you might get pregnant (condoms break ect) then you shouldn't be having sex
so abortions should only be legal when sex wasn't consentual?

>>893535
>"What the fuck studies are there that prove this wrong?"
I'm fairly sure that this is a logical fallacy, bro. Burden of proof kinda rests on you.

Anyway, I very much agree with both >>893017, as it is a fair method of determining responsibility, but >>893329 also provides a good option for the future.

>>893545

Irishfag here. LOLW00T?

maybe back when people where actually catholics. ... no one cares about that shite these days

>>893558

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africa

>>893551
There are already millions of kids that don't have any parents and don't have anyone to adopt them.

Once those are accounted for, then it'd be understandable to want people to not get abortions. As it stands now, though, there are far too many kids that are unaccounted for.

>>893548What they really need is a reversible or temporary vasectomy, or some other form of male birth control that is 99.9999% effective. Then there'd be no excuse.

It's called RISUG (reverse inhibition of sperm under guidance). An injection of a solution in each vas deferon that lasts for years, is so far 100% effective in tests, is extremely inexpensive to administer, and can be reliably reversed with an injection that flushes the solution out. It is currently undergoing trials in India.

Unfortunately to become legal in the US a US
pharmaceutical company would have to spend money sponsoring tests and none of them want to because they would lose too much money from not selling hormonal birth control pills.

>>893017

Awesome idea

"I pledge to pay 200 bucks right now and if I don't then I don't have to worry about the tens of thousands of dollars it will take to raise a child"

>>893568
Adoption agencies have a 7 year waiting list where I'm from. Don't talk about shit you don't know about.

All you faggots should know there IS a male birth control pill; unfortunately you can never drink alcohol or else you'll get violently ill.

>>893568
THIS! A million times this!

If we want to think of ourselves as remotely civilized as a species then we need to stop having kids until we figure out how to take care of the ones we have.

>>893571
Yes, I've read about that one. The clinical study with some 250 guys has 100% success for the past FIFTEEN YEARS, except for one case because the guy had been injected the wrong way or something.

They need to bring that shit over here! I'd get that in a heartbeat!

>>893578

Then I'll think you'll find there is NO male birth control pill.

there's a straight edge faggot pill

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reversible_inhibition_of_sperm_under_guidance

THISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHIS
THISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHIS

>>893568
Way to ignore the rest of my post and pick out the part most easy to attack. That wasn't even my point. I'm not advocating having kids because there's a shortage of kids to adopt. The point was there's something to be said for the right to life, and adoption is one way out if you don't want to raise the kid yourself.

>>893577
You start by talking about adoption practices where you're from, and then say that I shouldn't talk about things that I don't know about?

What the fuck are you implying here?

my morals are derived from my abilitiy to empathize. i empathize for beings that are conscious and have the ability to feel pain because thats how empathy works (a projection of others feelings on yourself).

entities that are not conscious, or entities that do not have the ability to feel pain (ie, a <30 week fetus) i do not empathize for, therefore i have no objection to them being killed/destroyed/whatever.

thus, i am abso-fucking-lutely pro choice.

>>893564
Different type of political/social/economic environment lead to different kind of pressures. To say that if there was a system in place in America that prevented women from getting pregnant so that sex could be had without that worry for STDs to skyrocket, well, there's absolutely no evidence. For either conclusion. Africa isn't valid, again, because there is a different society, which has different kinds of social pressures, so it cannot be said to be an accurate representation of what would happen if said system was installed.

>>893602
Dude, I was just saying that this "right to life" that you're claiming should be forgone until the people that are *already here* are being taken care of in a loving home.

I wasn't trying to argue against your whole post, I was just pointing out one problem.

>>893600
>>893584
This injection should be a mandatory part of the inoculations they give to teenage boys. Makes all males aged 12-22 sterile. If they REALLY want a family they can reverse it, otherwise it puts a huge dent in teen pregnancy.

Abortion is the natural result of controlling our environment and learning that the future is non-deterministic so long as we can control who is birthed or not birthed.

Fate can only be controlled by who is born -- not our choices made.

>>893609
and abortion is not the removal of an unfertilized egg

>>893617
Even though I'm a very strong Libertarian, I would support this. I'd even help pay for it as much as possible.

>>893614
So you think there's a population problem?

>>893632
>I'm a very strong Libertarian
lolno

>>893632
>I'm a very strong Libertarian

How much do you bench?

>>893632
Considering that it only takes a nurse to administer the injections and the actual injections themselves cost pennies I don't think cost is a factor.

>>893617
This is also an acceptable solution to the problem. Hell, it's probably the cheapest solution to the problem yet.

>>893635
No, but it's unfair to the kids that are already alive to give preferential treatment to things that don't even have functional brains yet.

>>893640
U MAD?

>>893641
300 Planck masses

>>893654
>u mad
that's like saying you are pro-life while getting an abortion

>>893641
*facepalm*

very fervent Libertarian*

>>893655
So, you cant even hold up your own body mass?

>>893632
So, you're so pro-personal rights that you will take away one of the most fundamental?

>>893661
So because I don't agree with the Libertarian party on every single issue, but agree on 99% of the issues, I can't call myself a Libertarian?

>>893654
>give preferential treatment to things that don't even have functional brains yet.

lol. "Sorry jimmy, I can't cook dinner for you tonight. I'm going to play sports with my unborn baby"

>>893661
Libertarians don't have to be anti-vaccinations. And even the ones that are anti-mandatory vaccinations generally agree at worst that if you're batshit insane opt out, otherwise there are a standard group of vaccinations your kids should get.

There is nothing wrong with being a Libertarian and thinking that vaccinating for pregnancy shouldn't be added to the list.

>>893676
don't you know? you can just cancel out mass

>>893666
Oh, well i'm a free-market loving authoritarian.

HOW DOES THAT MAKE YOU FEEL?

>>893682
PROTIP: Pregnancy is not a disease.

>>893677
Well you're not allowed to go to public schools without getting certain shots, so just add this injection to the list. If you don't like it, you're free to home school your kid or put them in a private school that doesn't force it.

I don't support forcing teenage boys to get it, but I would be fine with public schools forcing teens to get it in order to attend the school, like they do with certain vaccines today.

>>893680
lolkay, I'll just be an atheist that believes in god then.

>>893698
I never spent much time in public schools, but I never knew of any pregnancy outbreaks.

>>893693
>A disease or medical condition is an abnormal condition of an organism that impairs bodily functions, associated with specific symptoms and signs.

It really hinges on your definition of "abnormal." I would say it qualifies as a disease in cases where it is unwanted.

>>893698
Those shots prevent hepatitis B and shit. Pregnancy isn't a disease.

>>893713
What's your point?

>>893698
>I don't support forcing teenage boys to get it, but I would be fine with public schools forcing teens to get it
did you actually read what you wrote?

>>893693PROTIP: Pregnancy is not a disease.

Pregnancy is a disease just as much as an ulcer is. In fact, pregnancy is the scariest STD because almost all women are carriers for it.

>>893698Well you're not allowed to go to public schools without getting certain shots, so just add this injection to the list.

I like it.

>>893727
>pregnancy is the scariest STD because almost all women are carriers for it.
SHIT! How do I prevent women from getting me pragnet? I don't want to form babby.

>>893724
Yes. Yes I did.

If a public school wants to say "hey, kids, you have to follow certain rules, like wearing a uniform or blah blah blah," or wants to say "you have to get certain vaccines in order to attend THIS SCHOOL," then that is fine. If you don't like it, don't attend the school.

I don't see why this anti-sperm shot shouldn't be allowed to be included with the other shots.

None of you have kids or are over 25, are you?

abortion is an issue people don't agree on, the best solution is to let people decide what they want to do, according to their instinct. I'm not a liberal, but when there's an issue with no strict majority or scientific proof to stand on a specific side, it's best to let people choose individually

>>893724
He means "you don't have to get it, but if you don't then you can't attend public school"

Why is this so difficult a concept?

>>893713I never spent much time in public schools, but I never knew of any pregnancy outbreaks.

I went to a public school in a wealthy area and we had more than a couple pregnancies. It's quite a lot worse in rural areas or inner cities.

>>892988
>no worse than eating eggs
>i don't know about pregnancy but ill post anyway

>>893733
Incase you didn't realize, you look like quite an idiot.

Just sayin'

>>893732
The anti-pregnancy shot for boys. Should be in the US within like 20 years. It'll last a really long time, and is reversible in case you want to form babby.

>>893733
What kind of public school did YOU go to?

>>893733
>I don't see why this anti-sperm shot shouldn't be allowed to be included with the other shots.
Perhaps because it provides no public benefit, this may come as a surprise to you but pregnancy doesn't result from being around other people like real diseases do.

>>893113
my problem with abortion isn't that you are killing something that is "intelligent" but the fact that there is a 95% chance that thing would become "intelligent"

>>893749
Well, let's see...My high school didn't allow girls with really low-cut shirts, or shorts/skirts that were too short, or hats to be worn inside.

Also, to go to public school in my school district, you need certain vaccines.

All of this is pretty common stuff...

>>893750Perhaps because it provides no public benefit

An end to 90% of teen pregnancy isn't a public benefit?

>>893750pregnancy doesn't result from being around other people

You can get pregnant without being around other people? I suppose you think that HPV isn't a disease also because you can't get it just by being around other people. Oh wait! You Jesusfags don't want to give teens the HPV vaccine because "hurrr it'll make them have more sex".

ahhhhh! my brain!

>>893741
I don't know what kind of school you were in, but pregnancy isn't contagious, I mean unless all of the guys were fapping nonstop all over the place.

>>893759
Yeah, but again, those required shots are for diseases that are contagious. pregnancy is not.

>>893751my problem with abortion isn't that you are killing something that is "intelligent" but the fact that there is a 95% chance that thing would become "intelligent"

So you're saying that killing something that could potentially become intelligent is wrong? Guess I'd better start finding homes for my sperm...

>>893750
Except that teen pregnancy is a pretty big issue. Especially since, if you look at the statistics, poor people that can't afford kids are wayyy more likely to have kids than middle-class people. If it will stop a bunch of retarded pregnancies, I'll be for it.

>>893760
No, you fucking idiot. It takes a lot more than just being around another person to get pregnant. A guy has to stick his dick inside a girl and blow his load. It's not something that can be transmitted by a cough or by sharing a drink. That's the difference.

>>893761pregnancy not contagious
>>893767

Oh boy... did no one give you the talk about the birds and the bees?

>>893760
I don't know what kind of school you were in. In my school we tended to keep our clothes on.

You know it would be far easier to segregate boys and girls to prevent these 'in-school orgies' that result in pregnancy outbreaks than a medical procedure.

>>893774
And a guy has to stick his dick in someone to give them HPV/herpes/AIDS/etc. And if there were a vaccine for all of those you'd give it to kids right? Right?

>>893770
the only way you can redeem yourself is by being in favor of genocide of dumb asses

>>893775
>birds and bees
if you think that's how things work, I can see why you think it is contagious

>>893775
Oh, so you got pregnant from being around pregnant girls? Sucks for you

>>893785
Are you seriously comparing herpes and AIDS to pregnancy?

>>893482

I do agree that it's unfair that men have these obligations, but you know what else is unfair? A woman having to choose between a potentially traumatic and/or painful abortion procedure, or a potentially painful/traumatic birth. Women were delt the shitty card in life with regards to having babies, and social constructs have tried to equalize this unfairness. Women have to carry it for almost a year like a parasite, than squeeze the mofo out which can be pretty nasty and painful. All men need to do is squirt in the vag then kthxbai. Life is unfair.

>>893779You know it would be far easier to segregate boys and girls to prevent these 'in-school orgies'

As someone that lost my virginity to a girl that was attending an all-girls Catholic school let me just say "pfffffffffffffffffffffffff!!!!"

getting rid of humans in general is a good thing

>>893792
I know. What's a guy to do?

>>893798Are you seriously comparing herpes and AIDS to pregnancy?

I'd much rather have herpes than pregnancy.

>>893803
>In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.

>>893415
first of all, ethics=/=religion
second, you're not deciding what you do with your body, but rather a completely different person
how people see a difference between murder of a baby and abortion i have no idea

>This thread

>>893815
190 posts and 4 image replies omitted. Click Reply to view.

>>893814
One would think that if religious people truly thought that abortion was murder then they would try to prevent it at all costs by encouraging contraception, and they would be the most vocal supporters of things like the "mandatory RISUG for schoolboys" policy. What gives?

>>893814
Because what they abort isn't a baby.

>>893823
It's not a human until it can solve a quadratic equation.

/thread

>>893814
>how people see a difference between murder of a baby and abortion i have no idea

>derp. im retarded

>my face when asked about my stance on abortion

>>893822
>implying condoms and birth control are a sin
my and all my christian friends use these, you are an idiot

>>893830
>i can't come up with a counterargument so ill just name call

>>893823
but it's GOING TO BE a baby

>>893830
He has a bit of a point (you know, not a good one but... something). The age a fetus can survive on its own overlaps with the time that it could be aborted in some places. Does being on the opposite side of a vagina suddenly make one more human?

I think not, though as I am an atheist without any concept of ethics I say that the only rational solution is to allow abortion after birth.

>>893855
>Does being on the opposite side of a vagina suddenly make one more human?
I feel most human when I'm inside of a vagina.

>>893835my face when asked about my stance on abortion

It's funny because when asked that by a bunch of people, either side will lynch you for the wrong answer.

>>893853
Sperm too. Fapping = illegal?

>>893855
>Does being on the opposite side of a vagina suddenly make one more human?

No, but having intelligence and a consciousness does.

>>893855
why can't you guys get it through your head that i am not saying a fetus is a human?
im saying it will be a human soon
in fact, i think abortion is even worse than murder because you are denying a human their full life instead of just a portion

>>893847
If it cant feel pain, and its not aware of its own existence, it might as well be a plant.

Iv stated this like 4 times, just because im calling you a nigger doesn't mean i don't have an argument, it just means im tired of you not listening

>>893853
So? Sperm is going to be a baby, should I never masturbate anymore? Eggs could become a chicken, sunflower seeds can become sunflowers, but I still eat those. Am I a fucking monster???

>>893868
sperm will only become a baby if on an egg, and there is only a chance of it even then
plus, sperm die inside you all the time anyway

>>893861
Don't we all...

>>893873No, but having intelligence and a consciousness does.

You completely missed the point. It's retarded to make birth a cutoff for abortion because it has nothing to do with the development of a fetus. If a woman somehow managed to carry a fetus for 4 years and it could communicate then it'd be quite a lot more human than if a woman miscarried a 2 week old clump of cells and a hospital somehow managed to keep it alive in an incubator.

>>893889
>implying animals and plants=humans

The fully support the unrestrained slaughter of those who did not pass through a cervix.

DEATH TO THE MOON DEMONS

>>893896
Birth isn't the cutoff point for abortion. 3rd trimster is.

>>893884
Because it's a stupid argument. ALL of my sperm could potentially be a human soon.

>>893892
And fetuses only become babys when there born. Miscarriages happen all the time, nigger

I have no current feelings on it either way, but I am pro-choice.

I don't have any control on what you or anyone else does, in the 60 they were using coat hangers to do abortions themselves, I say if they are going to have an abortion provide the option, don't have the mother die from infection.

I honestly don't see any reason why people don't agree with this, I can understand not wanting to get a abortion for you or your partner, but you don't have to tell other people what they have to do. It's not in your hands, even if a law was passed that made abortions were illegal, they would swap back to hangars.

Take your choice, clean equipment and trained doctors, or a hangar and whoever was handy. Not pleasant to think about, but it's how I view it.

>>893884
no
bring mo logic to da table

>>893886
and i've stated this 4 times and resisted calling you a nigger:
I AM NOT FUCKING SAYING A FETUS IS A HUMAN
IT WILL BECOME A HUMAN WITH A MIND AND INTELLIGENCE IN A COUPLE MONTHS

>>893896
Stop dabbling in what-ifs

Until the organism is registered as 'born' then it isn't a child and its fate is ultimately up to the mother.

That is an awful idea, it still there baby too. Anyways I never heard of a guy telling the girl to get an abortion and her not wanting to. If fact I hear about a lot more girls wanting/ getting abortions and the guys not wanting them to. I personally believe aborted embryos/ fetus should be harvesred and used for science.

>>893908
5% chance of a fetus dying is better than the 99.9999999......99999% chance of a sperm on the floor dying

>>893896
Birth isn't the cutoff point for abortion. 3rd trimester is.

>>893904
It's 3rd trimester or birth. If the baby manages to survive a miscarriage before the 3rd trimester then the parents can't legally abort it even though it's still young enough to be aborted. It's happened.

>>893911
It might. That decision is up to the mother.

Unless you think that a women shouldn't have control over what her body does.

In that case, go die.

>>893911
Babies don't have intelligence for a couple years, get your facts straight nigger

>>893925
>implying a woman should have control over anything

>>893920
There isn't any shortage of humans. And there is nothing mystical about reproduction. If the mother doesn't want the child, do not curse the child to a life of being unwanted. And no, you cannot force the mother to want the child.

>>893932
>implying a woman is worth implying over.

PARADOX OSHI-

>>893925
a mother who aborts isn't "deciding what to do with her body"
she is deciding what to do with another human's body

>>893932
She can have control over how much mayo to put on my sandwich. But that's it!

>>893930
facepalm.jpg
it WILL have intelligence
that is what i have been getting at for this entire thread

>>893935
Uh, until that 'baby' (also, learn what that term actually means) can live independantly of the mother, it is a part of her body.

>>893923
>or birth

Are you saying right up until 9 months of pregnancy, it's legal to get an abortion?

>>893941
>it WILL have intelligence

Again, by that benchmark then fapping should be illegal because ALL THE POTENTIAL HUMANS OMG.

>>893939She can have control over how much mayo to put on my sandwich. But that's it!

Fuck that! Bitch better put on exactly the right amount of mayo.

>>893935
>implying a fetus is a human

oh you...

>>893941
Babies tend to have high mortality rates. Theres a good chance that (in not 1st world countries) it won't have intelligence.

>>893943
it will be born no matter what the mom does (except intended abortions like binge drinking and of course, aborting) which is why abortion is wrong

>>893956
>implying we're talking about swaziland

>>893941
So are you saying anything with intelligence shouldn't be killed? Then I'd like to hear your definition of intelligence please.

>>893960
Your a fucking nigger. go hang yourself.

Oh goddammit. In order for abortion to be wrong, a fetus must be a human, even if it's a human then humans must have inherent value for aborting them to be wrong. No fetus has ever accomplished anything and you can't prove that humans have inherent value so you can't prove that things are wrong.

>>893965
self awareness and self control
(inb4 should retards without either of those be killed, the answer is yes)

>>893941
In theory dolphins WILL have intelligence if we let them evolve for a few million more years but we kill them.

>>893977
lol, so you're pro life but pro killing retards? Are you some kind of super troll?

>>893984
Nazis were pro-life and pro-killing retards... it isn't exactly unheard of.

>>893988
Oh god he IS a supertroll.

>>893988
>implying Nazis didn't troll the whole world

>>893983
you kill them, but i don't
just like you kill babies, but i don't

>>893984
i am
or at least they shouldn't be able to reproduce

>>893977
this supports my idea of abortion being legal up until they learn to speak

>>893994
You don't kill ANYTHING that could potentially develop intelligence? Are you a breatharian?

>>893992
Even death does not stop Hitler from trolling.

>>894003this supports my idea of abortion being legal up until they learn to speak

What about kids that cannot speak because they're deaf or they have a voicebox problem? What about kids like Hellen Keller that aren't retarded but are really fucked up?

No.

Quadratic formula. Solve one or you're abortable.

>>894020
*quadratic equation

fuck it's getting late, trolling is hard

>>894004
>Breatharianism is a related concept, in which believers claim food and possibly water are not necessary, and that humans can be sustained solely by prana (the vital life force in Hinduism), or according to some, by the energy in sunlight. The terms breatharianism or inedia may also refer to this philosophy practised as a lifestyle in place of the usual diet.
if this is the term you meant, i am not
i know humans need food and water

>>894020
Yeah. Keller too.
Actually, what I'd like to do is suck the mammalian brains out and use the rest of the body for clinical studies.
Longevity, here we go!

>>894060
I've got a straw, ready when you are.

The morning after pill is not murder, it is basically a huge dose of birth control pills
it just prevents her from ovulating and thickens the mucus stuff in the vagina. If the sprem all ready got there then she is fucked. thats why they got to get it asap, and pray she didnt ovulate yet. and 75% of the time when pple have sex without contraception( and not pulling out) it doesnt result in pregnacy or the pregnancy fails so early she did even know she was prego yet, or the they just fail period , in other words only 25% of the time it results in a baby and thats without birth control

>>894085

fuck no there isn't a 25% chance a girl will get pregnant if you have unprotected sex. that is retarded and you should feel bad.

>>894092
Even if you assume it's a VERY healthy girl who is currently VERY fertile and you have the world's largest sploogegasm 25% is quite a high figure.

>>893960
>it will be born no matter what the mom does

At the expense of the mother.

Fuck off. Its her body.

no its a 25% chance that she will get pregnant AND that the pregnancy wont fail and she does have a still birth.

>>894124
so if you mooched off your mom past, say, 21, she should have the right to murder you?
it is at the expense of the mother to keep you alive

and that 25% is without the moring after pill

>>894138
There's a greater than 50% chance that any fertilization will result in a miscarriage. Even the most fertile woman on the planet on her most fertile day doesn't have a >50% chance of getting fertilized by a single load of batter.

>>894148 the most fertile woman on the planet on her most fertile day

I hate kids and why am I hard?

Goddammit. You pro lifers are just as bad as creationists, willfully ignorant. Pick up a fucking textbook.

>>894183You pro lifers are just as bad as creationists

They're...the same people.

>>894183
>implying you can learn your opinion on when a baby is a baby in a textbook
>implying religion is even related
you remind me of hitler, just finding a group to blame everything on

THIS ENTIRE ARGUMENT IS BASED ON WHEN YOU THINK A BABY BECOMES A BABY
IT IS YOUR OPINION STOP TRYING TO PERSUADE PEOPLE

got to the thread late

are there really any scientific pro-lifers in here?
I'm really interested in what you have to say.

I don't give a shit about what any religious folks think, their arguments are obviously based on their beliefs which aren't scientific or rational.