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  • File : 1325488928.gif-(4 KB, 547x87, day.gif)
    4 KB Anonymous 01/02/12(Mon)02:22 No.4207952 sticky  
    Putnam/IMO problem of the day
    from http://www.math.harvard.edu/putnam/
    >> Anonymous 01/02/12(Mon)02:25 No.4207964
    Yes.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/12(Mon)02:26 No.4207969
    >>4207964
    Proof plz.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/12(Mon)03:00 No.4208029
    This boils down to finding (xn)nN such that the coefficients of ni=0(Xxi)  are all nonzero.

    I believe (n)nN works because no power of can be written as a sum of other powers of ; the terms of the sequence won't cancel out and their exponents either.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/12(Mon)03:10 No.4208039
    >>4208029
    No, that would make the sequence of coefficients for the polynomial depend on n.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/12(Mon)03:32 No.4208090
    A possible strategy: Construct sequences a0a1a2 and x0x1x2 such that

    pn(xk)0 for kn and k even
    pn(xk)0 for kn and k odd

    If this can be done, the existence of the roots is guaranteed by the intermediate value theorem.

    If we choose all the x's positive, give the a's alternating signs, and make sure that

    an+1xkn+1anxnk for nk,

    that will force all the pn(xk) for n > k to have the same sign as pk(xk).

    By making the x's increasing, we only need to check the last and largest one:

    an+1xnn+1anxnn

    That and we need each pn(xn) to have the right sign.

    So what remains is showing we can construct sequences satisfying these two conditions at every step.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/12(Mon)04:02 No.4208146
    >>4208090
    So we start with a0=1 and x0=1.

    And given the series up to n, we proceed as follows to get an+1 and xn+1:

    First we choose an an+1 small enough to satisfy the

    an+1xnn+1anxnn

    condition.

    an+1=anxnn2xnn+1 works.

    Then we have to choose an xn+1 large enough that pn+1(xn+1) has the sign of its last and highest order term. Asymptotically, xn+1 increases faster than xn and all the other terms, so we will can find an xn+1 that does this no matter how small we make an+1, as long as we didn't make it zero (which we didn't).

    That completes the proof.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/12(Mon)04:29 No.4208183
    Just look at the Maclaurin expansion for Unknown control sequence '\sinx'.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/12(Mon)04:30 No.4208184
    >>4208183
    *sinx+cosx
    >> Anonymous 01/02/12(Mon)05:07 No.4208225
    for every n degree polynomial with n roots, is there some n+1 degree term you can add to it that makes the function cross the x axis one more time? it seems like it, but idk
    >> Anonymous 01/02/12(Mon)05:10 No.4208229
    >>4208183
    yeah, that was my first instinct. i don't see why that doesn't satisfy the problem.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/12(Mon)07:51 No.4208463
    >>4208229
    http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=sin%28x%29+%2B+cos%28x%29+maclaurin+expansion
    It does. Not sure why this question is so easy.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/12(Mon)07:54 No.4208470
    >>4208463
    From the graphs, that seems to be returning n+1 roots, not n.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/12(Mon)07:59 No.4208478
    >>4208470
    You must be looking at it wrong then since that's completely impossible. Any (non-zero) polynomial will have at most n real roots.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/12(Mon)09:17 No.4208594
    >>4208523
    Posting to remove that stupid comment from first page.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/12(Mon)13:04 No.4209064
    >>4208463
    >>4208229
    I guess the hard part would be to formally prove that it has n distinct roots, but even that's not too difficult: you just have to show that there are n distinct inflection points, each alternating in sign, which can be done easily by taking some derivatives.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/12(Mon)13:09 No.4209083
    >>4209064
    *n-1
    >> Anonymous 01/02/12(Mon)15:08 No.4209455
    >>4209064
    How does that prove that the function actually crossed the axis before turning back around?
    >> Anonymous 01/02/12(Mon)15:32 No.4209506
    >>4209455
    odd multiplicity in the factors
    i.e.
    x^22 only touches the x-axis while
    x^23 crosses it

    in a slightly more complex case,
    a polynomial (x-3)^2(x-1) has two roots (3 and 1), 3 has a power of two, which is even, so it does not cross the x-axis, while 1 has a power of 1, which is odd, so it does cross the x-axis

    sorry, english is not my native language
    >> Anonymous 01/02/12(Mon)15:45 No.4209543
    >>4209455
    Any polynomial is a continuous function. If I have a continuous function that's greater than zero at x = a and less than zero at x = b, then between a and b the function has to cross the x axis at least once, by the intermediate value theorem. So if there are n-1 inflection points, alternating in sign, then between the inflection points p_n has to cross the x-axis (that they're inflection points is irrelevant; they're just easier to find). This shows that there are n-2 roots. To get the final two roots, just show that limxpn(x) is a different sign than the rightmost inflection point. Doing this on the left side gives the final two roots.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/12(Mon)16:34 No.4209717
    this is a good problem
    >> Anonymous 01/02/12(Mon)16:40 No.4209736
    Well. I see I don't know my math today either
    >> Anonymous 01/02/12(Mon)16:59 No.4209784
    >>4209064
    >I guess the hard part would be to actually solve the problem

    I personally find that remembering to put the stickers on all my problem sheets is the hardest part.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/12(Mon)17:11 No.4209846
    >>4209543
    But can't you have all the inflection points e.g. above the x axis yet still have n distinct roots? (e.g. all the inflection points of sin(x)+1/2 are positive)
    >> Anonymous 01/02/12(Mon)17:33 No.4209922
    While it seems desirable to take a specific function like sin(x)+cos(x) and look at its maclaurin series, it's probably more straightforward to do this by induction. Assume it's true for n, and construct a value a_{n+1} that will cause exactly one more root by choosing a small enough value that the influence over the subset of the domain where the existing roots are is negligible, and looking at the limits as x goes to +/- infinity and the parity of n+1 to determine the sign of a_{n+1}, such that the new polynomial has an additional root outside of that subset of the domain.



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