liberal to conservative, which is pretty normal I suppose

grew up with bullshit political correctness, ignorant liberal, now better now, fuck yeah libertarian.

Conservative (parents were) to Libertarian fag to Anarchist to Apathetic.

Well... lets just say that I was very much a democrat.

Labels are unimportant. Action is better.

i am devising a new form of government your sex of your species will be used for mating.... don't fret love, your husband will be needed alive and well in IT support

From ignorance to less ignorance.

I'm sure there's more to learn.

Pretty much the same. I kept a lot of my idealistic views, and I don't think I'll ever change. I hope I don't ever change.
I've gotten more realistic, and therefore quieter, about my beliefs.

Social liberal to social conservative, economic conservative to economic liberal. It's crazy.

i went from being a dick to being a knowledgeable dick.

left toward the middle. bleeding heart liberals can really go suck a cock.

I used to be a communist in everything but name and now I'm basically an anarchist. I guess maybe I'm more mature now?

conservative to nazism to conservative to libertarianism.

In the future I think I'll end up being Constitutionalist.

far right to left

My parents are moderate liberals, but my mother insisted on sending me to a private school that just happened to be affiliated with a fundamentalist Christian church and indoctrinated the students with a Conservative viewpoint. The church she required me to attend each Sunday with her was also leaning Conservative.

So yeah, throughout much of my youth and teenage years, I was pretty damn conservative, sociopolitically speaking. Until, of course, I became nonreligious after a peculiar chain of events, which really helped to free my mind. Nowadays I'm a moderate liberal.

With regard to economics, I've always been somewhat of a centrist, leaning liberal.

On the authoritarian-libertarian spectrum, I'm also in the middle.

whatever I was under the mistaken assumption was cool to moderate liberal I guess.

i just stopped caring about anything political. probably ultraconservative now

When I was young I was a left leaning liberal, believing the world could be a great place if everyone lived peacefully and freely, and gave to those who were less fortunate.
I don't have a postition now, I don't know anything.

went from blindly believing in capitalism

to down right(heh heh right...) communism

although this mostly refers to economics. believe in equality and that communistic stf

so you can just call me a liberalist

Grew up as an upper middle class liberal. Still am in many respects, particularly socially. Became more tolerant and understanding of those with religious beliefs. After studying economics , I've become much more of a centrist and tend to piss off both my liberal and conservative friends in equal measure. I'm less populist when it comes to hating big businesses. Much more libertarian and view things through the scope of property rights. Basically a neoliberal economically. Not wild about unions (within reason). Love free trade and economic liberalization.

I've gone from more Al Gore to Michael Bloomberg kind of guy.

>>8642215

Nah, you just drifted from one pie in the sky to the other.

i went from liberal to nihilist

Started out left, grew more leftish, turned randish, now still mostly randish with left-leaning tendencies.

i went from delusional to rand-fag to a progressive realist and impartial observationist. I'd like to say i hold no ties but i'm viewed as a liberal.

>>8642357

Anarchy is possible though. Completely eradicate the government, and voila! You have it up until some sort of control is reestablished by someone.

>>8642147
Seriously, politics just gets in the way of progress.

Give anyone power and they'll abuse it, fucking over people with no power. Whether they think they're doing the right thing or not has absolutely no bearing on anything.

Power corrupts.

Was a libertarian, now a liberal.

i used to be completely
rasict and homophobic when i was younger, i think this was an influence from my father, but i think education and living with my stoner mum has made me into one a very left-wing liberal :)

>>8642393
You mean, by the time you look at your friend and go "Hey, no more government, we're free! What should we do?"

BOOM

STRATIFICATION

GAME OVER MAN

>>8642393
That will happen immediately

of course I think most legitimate anarchists acknowledge this and want it to happen (anarchosyndicalism) but I need to read up more on my anarchist theory

Leftist to pro totalitarian-despotic-police-state

Srsly

>>8642474

What's the point, though?

It's basically pressing the reset button on an imperfect system that's run by fallible entities, so things would inevitably end up in a similar situation (flawed, corrupt rule) after control was reestablished.

With social beings like humans, total and permanent anarchy is impossible.

>>8642548
again, i am not an anarchist and i do not have a good grasp on actual anarchist theory (i'm actually kind of disappointed, usually there's an anarchist or two around)

but i think the idea is a social system that allows for legitimate sovereignty by each person, in a truly democratic society of equals, where government as such is on an extremely small scale and every individual is able to participate fully in it and maintain their sovereignty.

>>8642575

HAHAHA Oh Wait... a sovereign INDIVIDUAL?!

>>8642601
what the hell dude

i said that i am not an anarchist and am not that well-read in the theory. but i tried to explain it to help you out. fuck you, asshole.

far left to moderate conservatism

I was a crazy Rush and O'reily-loving conservative. Now I'm a Libertarian Socialist.

does anyone agree with me when i say that i think left-wing and more liberal beliefs tend to come with more-so educated people? im very interested in this, so even if you want to prove me wrong, i would like to know.

also when has anarchy worked for anyone anywhere ever? politics may be corrupt but its getting less so, and im happy as is.

>>8642575

That actually sounds pretty cool. But how can the individual's sovereignty be protected? "Alliances" with other individuals perhaps?

>>8642612

8642548 here. That wasn't me.

>>8642644

And with moar education, a bit of empiric knowledge, and somo logical reasoning comes the realization that leftist goals are bullshit... people are not to be trusted with important stuff

Hardcore Communism. I can still recite Capital by heart, I can out-debate any of those Dialectical Materialism douches.

Now I just describe myself as Liberal. Not because I wouldn't Ideally like to see that Utopia-- I'd love it. It is because I can't stand to be associated with those jackasses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR1NPFXerk4

This song expresses my rage every time I see a "Socialist" or "Communist." More so because i'm an immigrant who actually had to work in those agricultural fields and now works in a warehouse environment to pay for college and it RAGES me that once-great organizations like the IWW are now unionizing, of all things, FUCKING STARBUCKS.

>>8642644
> does anyone agree with me when i say that i think left-wing and more liberal beliefs tend to come with more-so educated people? im very interested in this, so even if you want to prove me wrong, i would like to know.

it's generally accepted that academia is fairly leftist, and statistically speaking college-educated people are very likely to vote Democrat, so in America this is definitely true

>also when has anarchy worked for anyone anywhere ever? politics may be corrupt but its getting less so, and im happy as is.

an anarchist would point at things like the paris communes. again, i'm not an anarchist, but one of my favorite political philosophers, hannah arendt, was fascinated by things like this - instances where people actually took control of their lives in the course of some revolutionary movement. she makes the claim, actually, that movements like the Commune sprung up in every revolution, but were usually quashed.

From aspirant Ruskie socialist to edgy national socialist know-nothing fuck to mild randroid to moderately liberal libertarian republican.

I used to be an absolute monarchist. Now I'm disillusioned and apathetic.

>>8642678
hell yeah, you are awesome as hell, dude. keep it real. america would be a better place if there were more people like you.

>>8642683
Raged Commie here.

Also, Zapatista communes, Israeli Kibbutzim (But don't tell the commies because, in their lock step, they have to HATE Israel or they get shunned), Spanish Civil War communes, and Somalian Agricultural Communes.

>>8642676
>leftist goals
>trusting people

...generally, leftists are fans of big government, right? Big government IS the policy of "people can't be trusted, they must be closely watched and regulated."

If there's anyone that must believe in the goodness and rationality of the human soul, it has to be the right, that says "if we just allow people to do what they want, great things will come of it."

I grew up in San Francisco. Since I'm able to remember, my allegiance has been to the Democratic party and to liberal politics. However, my beliefs within that basic framework have kind of shifted back and forth - from being almost Green party left before I really thought about shit (IE fifth grade, when everyone was going for Nader), then become much more "establishment left", then becoming almost a socialist.

Now I'd call myself basically a typical Democrat, somewhere short of a socialist. I would align myself as a progressive, but fuck the progressive movement, it's just a bunch of fucking yuppies whining about how their lives suck. Seriously, leftist politics should be for the working man, the downtrodden and oppressed, not for a bunch of rich assholes who can't ride their bikes to work every day. I hate the left in San Francisco.

>I can still recite Capital by heart

You are so full of shit. I'd ask you to recite chapter 1 but you could just copy pasta it from marxists.org.

I won't ask you to quote it, I won't even ask you to explain an entire theory. Just tell us in your own words what value is.

I doubt you can, I don't know anyone who's understood Marx that actually would claim to be a liberal. Or listen to mall punk (lol).

>>8642773
That is such a simplistic way of looking at things

I mean, even the two-dimensional metric of "economic / social" views is simplistic, and that's light years ahead of you

>>8642678

I'm not big on Communism in the traditional sense, since I believe that the flawed nature of humans dooms the system to fail at ever achieving the utopia it strives for. Like the USSR after Stalin took power.

On the other hand, if the government were controlled and its policies enforced by some sort of neutral-minded artificially intelligent entity, I believe Communism could succeed.

You may call me a Robocommunist.

>>8642820
See, I don't like this viewpoint. It completely denies human agency. There is something important in politics, in the ability to act out one's self.

But I'm the asshole who loves Arendt, so what do I know

>>8642773

Last time I looked left minded people were the most concerned about freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of association, right to choose ,considerations and rights to minorities along with other nuances as legalization of drugs... I dont find that really authoritarian

>>8642773
No, that's only in the united states, you idiot.

And even there, it's not so much that people can't be trusted to make decisions as it is that democratic government is more transparent and efficient for many things than private corporations. Don't believe me? Look at energy deregulation. Competition leads to high costs for consumers because switching providers has a transaction cost associated with it, and since the firm that owns the lines isn't the one that provides the power, both need to profit exorbitantly from your power use.

>>8642784
bahahahaha. Typical Elitist Communist trying to show the world that he knows more Marx than anyone else.

Do you know what Hyperbole is? Yes, I am very well versed in Marxist theories, Post-Marxism, Cultural Marxism and Quasi-Marxist theories that used him as springboards (World Systems, etc).

That isn't the point, now is it? No, you would love nothing more than to be a lovely little Red Peacock and show the world how much more you know about Marx. Go ride your fucking Bike and go to your local Radical Leftist group and bitch about how the LOL PROLETARIAT WILL BE VICTORIOUS while, and ironically, boasting a 99.99% white membership, impressive upper-middle class status, NEET's through the nose, and having the most successful "communal" industry being something stupid like crimethinc or the next "zine" that you people can pull off.

Liberal to conservative/conservative-libertarian.

Got tired of liberal bullshit(along with all the enviro-hippies) all the way through school telling me what I should and shouldn't do, and why it's bad to tell people how it is; rather then using some fucking common sense.

I went from radical liberal to mouth-foaming randfag.

I haven't really changed. I always hear that young men are communists and old men are capitalists, but I only become more confident in my leftist beliefs and more contemptuous about the assumptions of the right as the years pass.

>>8642820

It's hardly utopian, it's only painted that way by reactionaries and parroted by idiots who don't want to learn for themselves.

It's funny how so many people love to blather about bootstraps and self reliance yet they can't seem to pick up a fucking book and learn something, they'd rather watch a clown with a high school degree prance about proving their ignorant hunches with drawings like this:

>>8642683
thank you very much :)
also i dont know much about USA politics, I'm British, but democrats are left wing and republicans are right wing? democrats= the labour party, republicans= the conservatories?

>>8642784
Also, to address the "mall punk" issue.

Don't you realize that by labeling something as "mall punk" you're essentially proving me right in the sense that Communism has degenerated into nothing but aging '68 veterans and a purely aesthetic and superficial culture? There is nothing wrong with consuming products produced by capitalism. That is why capitalism is thusfar successful.

I see more evil being done by people like YOU who insist that someone who does not shop at Whole Foods and eats only free-range meat (Or better yet, go VEGAN), and refuses to pay a complete mark-up for Morals. You stigmatize the working class for being poor.

I went from pretty conservative to far-left libertarian

>>8642886

Let the record show that he did not answer the posters question, likely because he's lying out the ass.

>>8642950
Er, basically. Except that both Labour and Tories are economically left of the Democrats.
>>8642951
HELL YEAH! you tell 'im. Once again, you are awesome, sorry I'm ridin your dick but still.

>>8642872

American is a pretty safe assumption to make on 4chan in my experience.

>>8642870

True. I just felt the guy I was replying to was one of those fellows that considers (American) conservatism the "realistic" approach and liberalism the "useless idealist" approach, which irks me. The left's not impractical, and the right has its own city on a hill.

>>8642886

bahahahaha. Typical Elitist Communist trying to show the world that he knows more Marx than anyone else.

>Do you know what Hyperbole is? Yes, I am very well versed in Marxist theories, Post-Marxism, Cultural Marxism and Quasi-Marxist theories that used him as springboards (World Systems, etc).

>>8642886
What you described is classic "white guilt" aka we succeeded and you didn't, so we must feel bad for ourselves and hand everything on a platter to you, to still our conscience. Rather then allowing people to cross adversity and become the better for it.

>>8642940
Very much utopian in the sense that the most radical thing that you people are doing is writing fucking zines and not doing much in the way of Praxis.

Why haven't I seen the IWW or any of the literally thousands of communist organizations pool all of their money and start running communes or building small-industry based on their principles? Co-ops are few and far inbetween. If you were all that stuck to your guns, you'd fucking start by setting an example.

liberal to national socialist

>>8642988
Shut the fuck up, you don't know shit, you idiot.

Seriously, you are literally advocating a policy of just being a dick to people because it builds character.

>>8642973
What good will it do to address the issues of Value? Why do I have to validate my knowledge of Marxism? Keep that knowledge in the ivory tower, why don't you?

>>8642940

I wasn't saying that the USSR after Stalin took power was a utopia.

I was saying that the USSR's failure to achieve true communism could be directly attributed to the change in direction (for the worse, I'd imagine?) that the nation took after Stalin took power.

I grew up a Fanatical Mormon Conservative, but since I got out of that religion I've become a registered Independent, with liberal leanings.

>>8643014
Sounds like I struck a nerve, and smashed you in the face at the same time. Proof in point anon, thank you very much.

>>8642987
Sure, but did I reduce myself to explaining, in detail, all of those things? No. Fuck that. I don't have to prove anything to someone on the internet. My issue wasn't with the theory. It is with the people who identify with it.

>>8642820
It's not solely about power and the potential for abuse, it's about efficient decentralization.

Imagine for a moment you are an official in charge of developing a food distribution network for a major communist city. You need to make sure that everyone gets enough food for a healthy diet every day. This would be easy, except that people have different needs, such as some people requiring more iron (women), or people who have certain allergies (such as gluten). This means you have to have a file on everybody that describes all of their dietary restrictions and requirements of every single person in the city, to make sure that the person with the gluten allergy only gets buckwheat flour instead of wheat or rye and only gets wine instead of beer or whisky. But the food production committee also needs to know all of this in order to decide how much of each foodstuff to produce each year.

>>8643036
Yes. You smashed me in the face. Because I am literally 12 and have never encountered any of the beliefs you mentioned before. Your victory was near-heroic.

I started out as a Reagan/Bush Sr. Republican and became a center-left independent.

Actually going out in the world and realizing we aren't the center of it by even a long shot in the eyes of the other 6+ billion members of humanity will do that to a person.

Seriously, I thought America was the best thing ever and while politically it has a lot of checks and balances, culturally and socially it's starved for new ideas.

If we stopped looking at anything foreign as being against everything we stand for, we might realize how much they have going for them and why a lot of them are happier than us.

>>8643054

But that's not all! Sometimes people's dietary needs change, typically due to a change in work or sleep habits, or medical reasons. So every person's employer also has to have a copy of the employee's nutritional file on hand, and how it will change in response to certain lifestyle or other changes, and the same goes for medical offices. What's more, to make sure that people get exactly what they need every time, all four copies of this enormous database now need to be updated every single day, to make sure someone who can't eat solid food doesn't get stuck with 3 pounds of meat they'd have to barter (black market trade!) or just let rot.

So that's a fourfold duplication of each person's nutritional, medical, and employment database with each copy being shared and updated every day, and we haven't even covered 1% of the things a central planner would have to do in this thought experiment.

*versus* just paying the person money and allowing them to make their own food-buying decisions based on their personal needs and preferences, which updates in real time with no transaction cost.

>>8642886

Lol, can't answer eh? It's a really simple question if you were "well versed" in Capital. In fact, understanding value is absolutely vital to understanding Capital.

>>8642951

But it is "mall punk".

You accuse me of stigmatizing the working class for being poor, yet it is you who are stigmatizing ME for not being a fucking moron. This is not about the working class, this is about someone using the stereotypical "I used to be an hardcore atheist...but now I found Jesus my lord and savior" argument and getting called out for it.

>>8643062
Hurdurdur. By your whining, I'd hazard you're somewhere between 17-24, and haven't actually had to bust your ass for anything in your life. Let alone have an actual job when you were still in middle school in order to get by.

So yep. Heroic victory indeed, now go back to sleep and get ready for school in the morning.

>>8642988
Maybe my English is nowhere near as good as I thought it was. But let me put this in the simplest of terms:

What?

>>8643091
yeah, yeah, yeah

god, these arguments are getting so boring

>>8643071

>implying that all people will be able to afford the equivalent of your proposed government diet and those who do, will eat a balanced and healthy diet... long terms effects worse than total control on how many peas you will have on your plate

>>8643099
Don't try to interpret that. It's the recent rugged-individualism rhetoric of anti-establishment young Repulicans.

>>8643099
>>8643091
>>8643089
>>8643062
>>8643046
>>8643036
>>8643023
>>8643014
Ad hominem-coaster!

>>8643089
I can answer. I choose not to. What will you gain from proving that someone on the internet has a working knowledge of Value?

Why does it matter that it is "Mall punk." It is just music. You are attaching an aesthetic value to it based on the commercialization of it. Does it change the message in any way? Possibly, in the same sense that it will naturally not gravitate toward the same people who read the labels to see if their meat is grass-fed.

I'll "stigmatize you for not being a fucking moron" all I want. You are an individual. An individual who is giving a nice representation of the entire Far-Left movement in the United States. All you are is an AESTHETIC. You're elitists beyond recognition. You refuse to accept that any of my accusations are real and you boiled the argument down to a simple question.

LOL BUT CAN U DEFINE VALUE?

In the end, the definition of Value doesn't matter. It is that you LOVE the idea of being one of the few people in the U.S. that cares to learn value. That person in the field working his ass off doesn't care about value. Neither does the mother having to work 18 hour days to feed her two kids.

>>8642988
>we succeeded

For now. Strength comes and goes and is always as much an accident of your neighbor's weakness as your own prowess. Rome once ruled the "world;" now it's just an old city in a third-rate European power.

"Might makes right" is easy, but treacherous.

>>8643187
I made sense of that through the usage of "white guilt," but I didn't even understand what he was trying to say...

>>8643099
Liberalism in a social policy where, anyone who succeeds at anything must feel guilt, especially if they're not rich. Preferably low-middle to upper-middle class(usually white), for what they've earned in life. So in turn they must feel bad for what they've earned and give it all away, for being "more" in society then what is morally acceptable to the group.

So, you get surbanite kiddies who are anarchists. SMASH THE STATE MAN! and FUCK DA POLICE. To the housewife syndrome of "OMG I/HUSBAND EARNED SO MUCH, I'M SO TERRIBLE. Let me go hug gaia and pray to pixie faeries to break my terrible guilt of consumerism." To the other side of "blacks are a direct result of the whites existing, and in order to make them feel better; we should throw money at them for whatever they want."

Lalala product of own choices vs product of omg guilt!

>>8643256
Yeah, no. I'm probably speaking to a wall here, but there ARE institutions in the state and society that keep people in those positions, especially in a really rigid society like the U.S..

>>8643246
Essentially:

-These people are manifesting 'white guilt'
-Because of this white guilt, they believe that whites should hand success on a silver platter to the browns (in the form of affirmative action, welfare, health care, etc etc etc)
-It would be better if the browns could succeed without any help because then they'd be morally superior and be better for their adversity as a people

I think.

>>8643205
Rome still would have continued to rule if it wasn't for a few things to basics:
1) Hyper-expansionism with failures to maintain their borders.
2) Induction of other classes but inclusion of holidays in order to appease new citizens.
3) Hyper debt due to the need to keep the citizens happy, bankrupting the military which kept their borders secure.

>>8643279
mehbloxeo

>>8643256
>Liberalism in a social policy where, anyone who succeeds at anything must feel guilt,

Whos been telling you these awful bedtime stories?
There is no guilt (guilt is the product of religion anyway, they have patent on it).

>>8643142
>>8643142
You are using the >implying meme to disguise your total lack of knowledge about nutrition or the actual cost of food in even a remotely free market.

Not to mention, if people are happier eating different diets than what the government mandates for them, then that implies that they are unhappier under the state-run system than they would be if they were free. However each person's reduced happiness doesn't imply that someone else's happiness would be greater, so you're basically oppressing people to make them less happy for the sole purpose of making your ideology work.

Ta-da! Stalin in five easy steps.

>you people are doing is writing fucking zines

We're talking about communists, not anarchists. Get with the program dude.

>>8643193

The person working the fields might not have time to understand, but the antagonisms are clear as day. You can cling to the sides of the grave you have dug yourself, but you're not kidding anyone.

>>8643304
Easier to state guilt is a product of morality. Not religion.

"communists are doing nothing for the working class. So I became a liberal." - a literal retard.

>>8643321
Perhaps. I think you can have morality without guilt, just empathy. You can't have religion without guilt (not a major, organized religion).

I went from not-knowing-shit to Moderate, favoring Democrats.

I would say Charlie Crist is my ideal politician, in terms of political acceptance. The Republicans are abandoning him because he's not following strictly Republican party demands, he's actually listening to what others have to say.

I hate extreme-right wing fuckbags, the John Boehners of the world, etc.

>>8643345
what are communists doing for the working class that could not be accomplished by liberals

seriously, give me examples or, frankly, even theoretical examples - given that, in america, communists are never, ever, ever going to be part of the government, why should i be a communist

I was kinda libertarian/anarchist, realized you need roads and healthcare ain't that bad. I guess I'm liberal except on the issue of guns, since banning guns even twice won't get them out of the hands of criminals.

>>8643394
but what if we banned them three times

I went from national socialist (I know, wtf) to far left human rights/ climate control/ welfare advocate to a person with moderately socialist values and with somewhat right wing ideas about putting them to effect (Im European, so from that frame of reference that would make me a supporter of a well regulated social market economy).

>>8643398

That's crazy talk. Never speak of it again.

>>8642759
but im afriad communisim doesnt work in such a globalized world, the current economy exists for mainly convienience

>>8643320
Oh. I'm sorry. Hang on, let me go get a job at the nearest communist-run commune. Clearly, I have been shut up. My god, the Praxis is so plenty that it is oozing out of my screen.

That's why I mention those people. Not one of those people can afford to give themselves the luxuries that the entire Far-Left movement gives itself. How many "Communists" fly out to the G8 on a yearly basis to protest? How about instead of organizing another CIRCA, you guys dedicate that time to helping the actual workers that are most impacted by capitalism's wrongs?


What is the last thing that you have done that has benefitted the working class, or even a group of people? I promise you that until "LOL REVOLUTION COMES" NOTHING will get done. So yes, maybe it is "revisionist" of me to join the Teamsters and Vote Democrat. It probably is oh so menshevik of me to like NOFX and go dancing with my friends at the nearest Latino Bar in this shithole of a town instead of dedicating my time to passing out flyers about how EVIL Israel is and how the International Socialist Organization will change the world overnight with the help of Maoist International and the 4th (or 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, or god knows what number) International. Who cares? I don't. Reason being that I know that that entire group of people is just there as an aesthetic. You guys have the burden of proof on this one.

If you want the attitude towards communists to change, you should start changing what you come off as. And you come off as elitist, racist, ivory-tower-secluded douches. Which really sucks because you represent such a great ideology.

apathetic to death-do-me-part anarchist.

>>8643354
You can't have empathy without guilt, otherwise you never know when you've done something "wrong." Otherwise the world is simply static and grey.

>>8643368

Civil rights, Women's rights, the weekend, the 8 hour work day...liberals can't do shit without an actual threat to the bourgeois (what were liberals going to do if the civil rights movement failed? lol).

>>8643368
Simple. Because the ultimate goal of it is the elimination of the state and class antagonisms. It is a total pie-in-the-sky goal, but it is a goal. Why not work for it? It doesn't require wearing a mohawk and going to bookstores in the gentrified parts of your city.

Just give a shit about that guy that you work with. Don't bend over for your boss-- they are profiting from your labor. Did you finish early at work and you see someone next to you who can't finish? Help him out. You're both in the same boat, and with a collection of these actions, maybe they'll reciprocate. Usually people do.

Reciprocal Altruism. Look it up.

>>8643474
But those were movements brought forth by extreme conditions. All of them were essentially put there to appease the working class.

Do you know why MLK is such a hero to the State? Because his Non-Violent stance is so fucking appealing next to Malcolm X's genuine threat to the state. Real change doesn't come from Passing out flyers and bitching about the Mumia. It comes from a threat to the state. And no communist movement in the U.S. can even think about delivering this.

young people: liberals
old people: conservatives

irony - young people, science and socialism help keep old people alive longer

>>8642820
>robocommunism
people would have to create the robots so people would be able to control them. unless you break the three rules of robotics it wont work

i went from nothing to nothing

>>8643501
Funny that. There's this thing called politics, and elections that seem to do a fairly good job unless you live in a banana republic. The problem is change is too slow for the average person, governments operate 8-10yrs behind everyone else, and have to represent all sides of society.

>>8643473
>done something wrong
That's a learned/nurtured response and nothing more than a societal construct. You can have empathy without it becoming the negatives of shame or guilt.

>>8642057
I went from eco-fascist to somewhat socialist to mostly apathetic, but now I'm something I'd dub post-conservative

>>8643394
I don't think the argument for gun control is that it will take guns away from hardened criminals. It's that the social dangers of private firearms, especially handguns, are significant: banning guns can keep them out of the hands of petty criminals, children, and crazy people like Cho.

Now, you could argue that the social benefit of having legal handguns outweighs all of the accidental deaths and the occasional random killing spree, but that's a far more nuanced topic for discussion than "If you ban teh gunz, only criminalz will have gunz!"

Also, what's up with opposing the assault weapons ban? None of the AB features are remotely useful for anything other than killing other people as an offensive weapon, so the usual arguments for self-defense and sport don't really hold up.

>>8643524

If the robots are going to be doing the ruling, then I don't believe Asimov's laws should even apply to them.

>>8643298

And I'm sure America will have a laundry list of obvious fuck-ups when it falls, too.

>>8643559
>I'm joyfully crushing your skull with a bag of flour. I see no wrong in this, and I don't feel any guilt over that either.

I'm seeing an issue here.

>>8643570
It's always easier to see faults in reverse. The ability not to repeat the same things in the future is where you actually win.

who was it said "if you're not a liberal at 20yo you cold, and if you not a conservative at 30yo you an idiot"?... paraphrasing obviously.

>>8643546
No. Elections don't really change much. Look at the current health care bill.

Universal, Single-Payer> Single Payer> Public Option> Mandated Insurance with a public option for insurance>Mandated Insurance with removal of Anti-Trust exemptions>Mandated Insurance with no removal of anti-trust exemptions.

Elections only serve to bring in votes. Just enough votes are bought with slight change. Elections don't really change much.

god you are stupid

ryjswdtyki

>>8643623
Remember the phrase, the people get the government they vote for? That's the problem. When you have an uneducated electorate, you get people voting for idiots who don't have their best interests in tow. Rather they have their own interests in tow.

>>8643501
Malcolm X wasn't a genuine threat to shit. He was a gasbag who was all talk and didn't actually accomplish, or even try to accomplish, anything of benefit to anyone. All he did was bitch and moan and try to blame all of the problems faced by black people on Jews, middle class whites, and later Elijah Muhammed. He is lionized by African-Americans because they love people who are all style and no substance: X, Louis Farrakhan, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, pretty much everyone in rap and sports.

Howard University is the best historically black school in the country and the students there don't even know the full name of the guy it's named for.

>>8643590
I don't gain anything by crushing your skull, so I won't do that. Besides it's messy.

See! No guilt in the thought process.

Guilt is derived from Judeo-Christian bullshit.

Elections? Politics? To this day, I don't understand any of the shit you fags spew and I'm 18!

>>8643620
Pretty sure it was Winston Churchill, who was not a liberal at 20 so I doubt the validity of the rest of the quip.

>>8643620

A conservative identifying his politics with "maturity," a fairly blatant emotional appeal.

>>8643664
You don't? How odd. Speaking as a non-impulsive crime, you could gain many things. Money, resources, pleasure. Take your poison.

>>8643645
Wrong. Their interest is the people's interest (If I phrased that correctly...). I don't buy the argument that politicians are completely bought out by special interests. If that were true, Public Relations groups would be completely out of business, since there would be no need to get people to vote.

Elections serve no purpose for change. They perpetuate the same shit. Any change that have occured in the United States with any substance behind them have one of two things that provided a catalyst: A threat to the state or a threat to the Economy (Which is a threat to the state).

Every "change" that happens can be attributed to appeasing the people by giving them 1/32nd of the pie rather than the entire thing.

>>8643660
But did he represent a much more genuine threat to the state than MLK ever did?

Yes.

From run of the mill third way liberal to a democratic socialist (ala Denmark) ....... I have wood for Denamrk.

I went from trolling my republican dad and democrat mom to being SUPER SUPER moderate.

Fuck yes the middle.
Fuck yes dgafing.

Socialist to Communo-Anarchist to Democrat

>get a job at the nearest communist-run commune

I am not even aware of any communes. What is your obsession with these things? I'm not an anarchist, and I'm not a cultist. Running off to join a commune is only second to moving to canada as the most fuck-you-got-mine liberal action ever.

>done that has benefitted the working class, or even a group of people?

Everything is done on a local level because the American left is dead. America is not the only country in the world, the revolution does not have to start here.

>liberals can't do shit without an actual threat
>Real change...It comes from a threat to the state

lol

>>8643709
Obviously not, since King actually managed to get reforms that curbed white power enacted, and white people actually bothered to kill King themselves.

>>8643695
Public relations group reflect the minority in most cases. Very few reflect the majority. The reason that they exist is to perpetuate their vision of what they want done. This can be done through secondary/etc intermediaries in order to further what they want.

I'm not talking about the US as a whole however. Threats to state only accelerate eventual change, that becomes your political balancing act. Change in itself has to wholly regard all of society as well, that leads to overall unevenness to whatever is being implemented. You piss off everyone equally in order to make headway on an issue.

>>8643689
The point is, that assigning "guilt" as an underlying motivator (white guilt, middleclass guilt, whatever guilt) to your political opponent, is a weak, baseless, red-herring argument.

>>8643687
understandable reaction, but it rang true for me and some of my (mid 30s) friends

The civil rights movement, a play in one part by MLP:

*background noise of whining liberals accomplishing nothing*
USSR: "america is racist. blacks can't even vote"
USA: "oh fuck, the russians are spreading communist lies to the third world.. sigh.. i guess we must give concessions to those dirty negros"
*liberals rejoice, oblivious to reality*

moderate to libertarian to moderate-liberal

Oblivious -> conservative Republican -> conservative/libertarian -> libertarian minarchist

>>8643759

They killed him when he was embarking on a project that smelled awfully socialist (Poor People's Campaign).

>>8643687
More than that, I think he was trying to convince potential Conservative voters that selling out their youthful ideals for stability is something everyone does, and they don't need to worry or feel guilt about it.

>>8643867

A list of synonyms for "oblivious"....lol

>>8643620

This is objectively true, if we ignore the existence of Marxism-Leninism. If you're a capitalist and not in the fuck-you-got-mine mindset, you might as well kill yourself for being such a loser.

obama monarchy all the way

>>8643879
Right, because every program that helps poor people is socialist. That's why Julius Caesar, that notorious socialist, gave money to the Plebs in his will.

>>8643660

Post-Mecca Malcolm is where it's at. NOI-era Malcolm was just spouting bullshit.

>>8643938

The fact that it wasn't socialist doesn't matter, MLK Jr. was a massively popular leader and his PPC would have attracted a lot of attention and support. He was drawing attention to issues that lie at the very heart of the capitalist system itself, the movement would definitely have been a boon for American socialists.

Also, you're assuming that someone has to actually be a socialist to be considered one.

Liberal = leftist in America?

>>8644044
Yeah, stupid huh?

national socialist reporting in, its the blacks fault

i was an anti capitalist and anarchist in my college years, all into Proudhon and Chomsky and shit. I read alot of that stuff and one of my senior thesis was on anarchism in America.

Then i began to study economics and i've become much more of a centrist. Im no longer completely against the state and my economic views are pro free market libertarian, but not too far to the right either because i think wise state intervention which works with the market is not a bad thing. Basically im kind of a moderate social democrat.

it happened as soon as i left college too...i thought it was kinda hilarious that the following month or two i started to veer away from radicalism

I went from leftist (ultra-ULTRA conservative parents. Anything would be left of them) to left leaning libertarian.

I the halcyon moment was realizing the left in America were too hypocritical and self-serving to be anything more than petty tyrants, and anything approaching socialism will not come from them.

I used to be economically liberal (in American sense) and socially conservative.
Now I'm economically conservative and socially moderate.
What never changed is my hatred towards both fascists and fags alike.

I used to think people in the world were looking out for each other and the (social) environment they were in, but then realized everyone was pretty much full of shit.

Except me.

>>8646822

You are either a moderate nor a social democrat. You are the left of the far-right.

Went from moderate (relative to American politics which is probably more right wing than the rest of the world), to liberal, to socialist.

I went from hardcore conservatism to apathy.

Always been socially libertarian, went from economically conservative to socialist.

Ultra communist to ultra fascist

I've always been a (human liberties) liberal, not an economic lefty.
It doesn't cost as much as you would think to provide a basic cushion for everyone e.g. nationalised healcare. Britfag here who wishes he was Belgian.

conservative to slightly less conservative

>>8648673

Oh god! The leftist purity test.

>But I was into this band before everyone else

Communist->Libertarian->Market Anarchist

I was raised ultra-left, but migrated slightly to the right. Guess that makes me a centrist.

I went from anarcho-syndicalist in my teens to more of a marxist now.

>>8648854
Is there a difference?

I tought that the first is the best representation of the second

Bleeding heart marxist-leninist to fiscal conservative

Used to be very liberal, moved to center, now center, but leaning to the right.

It depends on the issue though, all for faggots, all for guns, all for military, all for welfare.

>>8648759
>centrist
>pro free market libertarian

Not a question of purity, you're just a fucking moron.

I've always been liberal, I've just found out about more issues to be liberal about as I've grown older.

I'm not even bothering to read the thread, because I assume every basement dwelling fucktarded liberal came in and posted "hurrrrr I used to believe in god but now I'm smart edgy and cool so I don't know durrr."

They haven't changed at all because I was smart enough to get it right the first time.

I went from hurr durr liberal to conservative. Being liberal is funny when you are 16 and got nothing exept girls and beer in your head and believe money comes from the bank, but it doesn't work in the real world out there.

I went from a randfag to a hardcore communist in college, then I started paying taxes and noticed all my liberal friends either take their humanity degrees and work for the state(getting paid far too much) or I saw them make loads of cash and vote democrat. Voting dem was just part of their facade while they cashed in on all the evils they supposedly hated.
Now I subscribe to pat Buchanan views. I suspect many of you won't be so bleeding heart once you collect your first paycheck after college; the 4-year brainwashing doesn't stick as much as they'd like.

>>8648915

Is it a particularly bad thing to not believe in God?

>>8648939

Selfish.

>>8648915
>Ctrl+F
>no references to god (except in exclamations like 'oh god')
>one reference to Christianity

You are a retard.

>>8648948
Well, all athiests/liberals/socialists/whoever that guy doesn't like is an angsty, anti-establishment, rebellious teenager, you see.

>>8648956
I am. But I am working for my money and other people don't. Why should they receive just one fucking cent from the money I'm working my ass off for?

I went from "I don't fucking care" to "I couldn't really care less".

With the current system I can't change anything. I bet elections are just a show.

>>8648992

Why should people be arrested for killing others?

Went from democratic socialist to totalitarian to not giving a flying fuck.

We'll never have a Tyrant like Lord Vetinari anyway.

>>8649012
We arrest people so we can keep the scum away and save our society from slowly descending into the abyss of anarchy.

>>8648992
I'd say it's more important that people who need the money are able to be kept out of poverty than you getting all this money you feel entitled to have. You are working hard for money, yes, but the exact amount of money is negotiable. There's no moral obligation for you to recieve a certain amount of money for your work, but there is a moral obligation for society to protect it's own.

I went from a pretty far-right republican to libertarian.

>>8649038

Then why not save society from descending into the abyss of uncaring, total capitalist hell?

The only reason countries don't become anarchies is tyranny of the majority (democracy), and that's the same reason why you have to give money in taxes.

I went from hyper liberal to socialist libertarian.

I'm a complicated man.

I went from moderate (US) liberal to hardline stalinist, then swung back to democratic socialism.

>>8649058
Because in this uncaring capitalist hell the people who are actually willing to do something will also get something for it. This is of course bad for those who'd rather live off wellfare money because working sucks etc.
I gladly pay taxes if they are used to keep our state functioning, but I don't see why any of that money should go to some lazy wellfare queens and such.

12: Fairly right-wing, supported the Iraq War, didn't like gays
14: Turns out I'm gay lol, moving center
16: Fairly left-wing
18: Anarcho-communist
19 (now): Centre-left

I can't see that changing much.

(12) Liberal
(15) Libertarian
(18) Republican christian nutjob

>>8649124

Your views are antique. Not everyone who lives off welfare does so because they're feckless.

>>8649124
1. Do you read the Daily Mail or something? Do you seriously believe everyone on welfare is just lazy?

2. People do get rewarded for hard work in states with welfare, it's just that a safety net exists to prevent people from living in intolerable conditions.

Raised conservative stayed that way until I realized how ridiculous some of the conservative social policies were.

Switched over to being liberal until I realized how ridiculous some of the liberal economic policies were.

Ended up libertarian.

Somewhat conservative with libertarian leanings to completely apathetic.

>>8648910

Pitchfork: 3.2

>>8649210
Not him, haven't even posted in this thread. But:
Everyone on welfare are fucking lazy fucks or mentally ill people. Neither deserve to live in a civilized country.

16) liberal
18) moderately liberal
20). neo-marxist/ moderately liberal (from the viewpoint of the USA)

>>8649285
>Everyone on welfare are fucking lazy fucks or mentally ill people. Neither deserve to live in a civilized country.

From the sound of it, neither do you.

>>8649154
>>8649210

Of course not everyone. But I do believe most people are. Getting your money for the state is of course a lot more comfortable than getting up every morning at 6. I believe a lot of lower class people are more than willing to abuse the wellfare state if it enables them to live somewhat comfortable without moving their asses. Just look at Europe. The amount of uneducated immigrants abusing their generous wellfare is insane.

>>8648940

You assume many here are even smart enough to collect their first paycheck and won't become wards of the state.

14-18: Moderate liberal, as a result of trusting people and rebelling against Catholic high school
18-now: Individualist/anarcho-capitalist, as a result of distrusting people.

>>8649043

> I wish I made enough to be conservative

>>8649305

Using Europe as an example is quite naive and funny.

12: In favour of a progressive government, scientific and technological advancement with liberal views on most (but not all) issues.
16: In favour of a progressive government, scientific and technological advancement with liberal views on most (but not all) issues.
18: Lost all faith in politics, supporter of the Monster Raving Loony Party.

Went from conservative, to liberal, to libertarian.
Almost all of the left/right issues I couldn't give a fuck about, so I'm basically in the middle.

>>8649345
>Implying the same would happen here as well if we had the same amount of wellfare. Hell the same thing would happen anywhere.

Classic Liberal- Classic Liberal

I was an intelligent kid.

>>8649376
argh...would not happen...you know what I mean.

>>8649379
>classical liberalism
>intelligent

:S

>>8649386

What do you mean by "the same"? In my (European) country, people on benefits go on a certain programme. On the programme, they learn skills to help them find work. Then, the programme helps them look for jobs. If they don't take the first job offered to them, they stop receiving benefits. Simples.

communist to national socialist to conservative to anarchist and is now a content libertarian (minarchist)

>>8649415

That is, obviously, unemployed people living on benefits.

I went from being liberal, to apathetic and pragmatic. I guess my core beliefs are liberal, as in I believe in the progress of mankind and think conservatives are just babies that are afraid of change, but I also think most liberals are douchebags whose hearts are in the wrong place. For example, moral vegetarians, "All men are created equal" fags, people who see discrimination in almost everything, NWO conspiracy nuts, etc.

Socialist -> Facist

>>8649415
I think you easily fuck with that program if you go to that interview drunk or ungroomed. Also what about the people with literally zero education, who are barely fit for any job? Money until the end of their days?

Before 18: Didn't care
After 18: Halfway between Libertarianism and Conservatism, on the political triangle that includes the above two and Liberalism.

LIBERTARIANS ARE THE FINAL INEVITABLE STEP IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF MANKIND

obviously liberals are on the other end

>>8649462
>Also what about the people with literally zero education, who are barely fit for any job? Money until the end of their days?

>On the programme, they learn skills to help them find work.

Can you read?

>>8649486
How wonderful, a country with limitless amounts of jobs and everyone is equal!

Apathetic -> Conservative -> White Nationalist

from social-democracy to communism to anarcho-communism :3

>>8649486
Well yeah that's fine...but how much does it program cost the taxpayer to fix the education deficits of certain indiciduals? And how efficient is it?

>>8649516

Evidently, some people will be unable to find work for a long time, but that doesn't matter. The point is that the programme forces them to actually train to do work so that, when a job does come up, they can take it.

Moreover, CAN YOU READ?: "skills" not "quantum physics". You don't have to be very intelligent to learn a trade.

>>8648899
You're disgusting. You're only fiscally conservative because you're a rich white boy who wants to keep all of his filthy money.

>>8649536

How much does it cost not to?

>Every one needs to live. Even the stupids.

>>8649547
Better than giving it away to lazy welfare niggers.

Synopsis: Everyone is stupid, but thinks they are right. Good thing everyone on r9k brags about going to an ivy (even though they are filled with idiots as well) because i can see all the intelligence literally over flow from this thread.

>>8649547

>I wish I could be you

>>8649516

Not Yuropean, but over here the government makes a lot of useless jobs like completely unnecessary neighborhood "beautification" projects and constantly resurfacing the road way to often. It seems to be exactly what he's talking about.

Here's a heads up: There is a reason people go to school for a large portion of their lives, and then some more in a college. Teaching any sort of "skills" are either going to be low end anybody-can-do-that-shit jobs that are in more than fulfilled, or cost too much to be in any way practical.

There's also begging, which is like being a hobo without the benefits. And you know how some people can be lazy enough to be happy with that.

>>8649536
>education deficet
It's as if it's ubiquitously their fault that they aren't educated. Poverty breeds poverty, you know.

The programme isn't actually incredibly effective, but that's because it teaches skills in a rather useless way which leaves people feeling unmotivated.

But the point of it is that people are penalised for just sitting on welfare. Your naive twelve-year-old American patriot propaganda-caused false view of Europe as a communist shithole is wrong.

>>8649575
Those lazy wellfare niggers need to be payed while being in that program. You can't learn a trade in 2 days.

>>8649651

So? It's money well-spent if they're learning skills.

But you're missing the point of the discussion:
>Your naive twelve-year-old American patriot propaganda-caused false view of Europe as a communist shithole is wrong.

>>8649634
Slow down bro.
I don't think Europe is a commie shithole, but it definetly fucked up when it comes to immigration and wellfare. Not saying we're any better though.

liberal (mind of a child) -> conservative (i take care my kids) -> moderate (i don't care anymore) -> troll (lets have some fun before america fails hard, i gots to get paid nigga)

>>8649651
How about this. We spend that money to sterilize them instead. Someone said that poverty breeds poverty. Well, I've got a perfect solution. Sterilize the poor fuckers and get rid of poverty once and for all.

>>8649567

>>Every one needs to live. Even the stupids.

No.

I went from ultra liberal douche to completley moderate in almost every way.
The more I learned about the world the more I learned how full of shit everybody is.

>>8649669

Not to the extent you posit. People get punished for just sitting on welfare. The problems with our systems are blown out of proportion by right-wing American fiscal conservatives.

That's where your "FORCING INSURANCE COMPANIES NOT TO REJECT PEOPLE BASED ON PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS IS SOCIALISM" problem stems from too, I think.

>>8649680

Lots of brilliant minds have come from poverty. I also enjoy human rights.

>>8649545
You seem to be pretty naive but that's okay. If you want a job you need experience, education comes second. I know so many people that have completed Master programs in computer science but the best jobs they can get are collecting strawberries...

fuck politics has always been my belief. Life's too short.

>>8649709
But it is socialism. In the long run, this will raise the costs for the perfectly healthy people just because companies have to accept people with severe diseases. Why should we force the healthy population to pay even more??

Moderate Libertarian.

I know, I'm shocked that we exist too.

>>8649722

The programme helps them to find jobs, the fact that you get taken off benefits for refusing jobs says something about the success of finding jobs for people.

>>8649736

Why should people not kill others?!??!?!?!?!

You can't get an ought from an is.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is-ought_problem)
Democracy is tyranny of the majority, live with it baby.

>>8649718
Well, let's test their IQ then. Everyone who is poor and has room temperature IQ gets sterilized. Everyone else gets a grace period to get their shit together. Just imagine ...society would so much better if everyone had 100+ IQ, crime would reach all time lows, there would be no hobos on the streets, no litter on the roads etc

>>8649740
"helps them find jobs" Do they invent new ones? Where do all these jobs come from you speak of? And why would they want to hire people in that programme?

>>8649761
Well, why don't we ask the halthy majority if they want higher costs because some idiot forces companies to accept people with severe diseases. I have a feeling they wouldn't like that, baby.

>>8649764
No. Things would be the same. Except the stupid people would be able to read better. Doesn't amount to much when the people who control the world are all fucking genius's in their own right.

>>8649785

Because they learn skills relevant to the job. There are job vacancies in existence, you know. If the programme can't find them a job, they get their benefits until they do. Seems fine to me!

>>8649764

Protip: Just because someone's intelligent (or in that case, can do logic puzzles well), doesn't mean they're going to follow all of the rules just because.

>>8649692

You failed the "good citizen" portion of the test.

>>8649786

The majority elected Obama etc. etc. etc.

>>8649801
Why do you say that? If you breed out the lazy and the stupid, then you'll decrease the population and there is a possibility of having a 100% employment rate.

>>8649814
Are you saying that intelligent people are just as likely to commit crime as low IQ criminals? I'm calling bullshit on that one.

>>8649692
>>8649680
Conservatives want poor people to be killed or sterilized.

Wonder why people call them elitist.

Authoritarian to liberal to centrist. I don't wanna mention labels but I have views from both sides of the spectrum, so I say center... I'm not fence sitter though.

I went from being a communist apologist to being a minarchist after my personal experiences with the government welfare system.

>>8649838

Intelligence doesn't correlate with morality, intelligent people commit crimes in different ways e.g. corporate, humans are all the same in the end.

>>8649785
Well yeah, they can't necessarily find jobs even when they are looking as hard as they can, which is all the more reason for having welfare. Since, you know, capitalism can be a bitch sometimes and people ought to be protected from abject poverty at least.

I've bounced all over the place. When I was first politically active, I was a Communist, but now I'm a moderate liberal. The only views of mine that have never changed are my views on affirmative action and the Death Penalty--I've always been strongly opposed to both.

Oddly enough, though, I'm the most conservative person in my family.

>>8649867
I think murder, rape etc is worse compared to corporate crime. Fact is one end of the bell curve is way more violent and animalistic than the other. For this reason, the left end of the bell curve needs to be eliminated so that the society does not stagnate anymore. We should be heavily investing money into space exploration right now instead of wasting it on supporting welfare dregs of society.

what does "I just want to be left alone" fall into? I went from republican to that.

>>8649935
That's what libertarians like to think of themselves as, although in practice it's the 'get raped by unregulated business' ideology.

>>8649935

Apathy.

apathyblox

was conservative at 8, liberal at 13, post-liberal world-centric at 19, and today i'm a comprehensive, humanistic, synergy-based political thinker. my view on politics is that policy should be responsible for conducting the lives that people want to live, no matter how much they differ from one another.

I didn't have any kind of political affiliation as a child. I did, however, have the whole homophobia thing. I guess society just taught me that it was "wrong" and whatnot. That was the only thing I grew out of when I hit my teens. A longstanding friend of mine came out of the closet, and even though it was no surprise, it was eye-opening.

Year 2 - No political beliefs. Strong support of eating, shitting, and nap-time however.

Year 5 - Watched C-SPAN. Passed out.

Year 6 - Watched Fox News. Called bullshit.

Year 11 - Asked friends at school about politics. Was pelted with rocks.

Year 15 - Became a liberal after realizing that the USA is far too stupid to govern itself in any way.

Year 19 - Voted for Obama.

Year 20 - Killed a member of the Tea Party.

Year 21 - Killed several more members of the Tea Party.

on a pretty good track if i do say so myself

I thought fascism made plain sense from around 9-13. I didn't see any point in fair trials when "it's usually obvious who did it", and I felt there was no sense in protecting wrong ideas at the expense of right ones. The world seemed so simple back then.

I'm now in my mid thirties and a moderate liberal. Not crazy about everything the party stands for but it is by far the most sensible in my estimation. The shift came from exposure to poverty and personal experience struggling to find work. Generating wealth isn't as easy as conservatives and libertarians insist, and not everyone is equipped to compete successfully enough to shelter and feed themselves. It's a messy and costly endeavor to provide for them and there will always be those who game the system, tempting less patient, understanding people to abandon that endeavor entirely, but the alternative is standing by and doing nothing as tens of thousands die from starvation, easily preventable diseases and exposure to the elements. I am not so pleased with myself that I think anyone whose life is in a worse state deserves to be left for dead.

>>8650284
>Year 20 - Killed a member of the Tea Party.
>Year 21 - Killed several more members of the Tea Party.

I like the direction this trend is going.

>>8649959

Oh dear! Big business is the new pedophile.

>>8650284

Whatever you do, don't stop until you run out of teabaggers. You finish the job, you hear me? It's like in that 1989 film Leviathan, where if you fail to incinerate even one small part of the monster, the entire thing regrows.

i went from borderline libertarian to very informed and open libertarian (it's possible)

>>8650284
>Became a liberal after realizing that the USA is far too stupid to govern itself in any way.
and what exactly makes you think you are any better? stupid people can think they aren't stupid

>>8650379
>open libertarian

wat

>>8650404
did I ever say I thought I was? ;_;

I went from being extreme liberal to moderate libertarian.

Personal freedom has always been a big deal to me.

My progress
>growing up in strict, conservative, Irish-Catholic house. Republican all the way
>Moderate Republican in the beginning of high school, knew nothing of economics but began to notice I actually didn't care that much about gay marriage or any other Republican shit-list items
>Went from moderate to far-left Democrat shortly after
>Left the Democratic party because they seemed weak and too moderate
>Have been a registered Socialist for 3 years.

Feels good man.

ITT: "I used to believe everyone was equal...but then I took econ 101/got cuckolded by a nigger"

This is exactly why I don't place much faith in teenage "communists", or anarchists in general. In non-revolutionary times it's inevitable that most eventually go with the flow. Their radical politics aren't brought about by understanding, but rather by the need to feel different/special.

>>8642784 You are so full of shit. I'd prove you wrong, but I don't want to give you an opportunity to prove yourself right. Haha, I win!

>>8650486

I guarantee that everyone ITT that claims to be ex-communist/socialist/radical leftist turned lolbertarian/liberal/conservative did so because they got sick of feeling stupid due to the constant questions about their alleged philosophy that they couldn't answer.

I had little interest in politics and government until around the 10th grade. My interest in politics and political orientations came slowly via social and economic issues. I've researched various political ideologies and for some reason I've compared their positions to the real world implications of those if actually implemented.

I realized in college that my political positions do not fit the mainstream of liberal and conservative.

I consider myself a socialist, a progressive, and a social libertarian.

>>8650467
Socialism is fine too. :3

used to be labour now lib-dem

stereotypical democrat > anarchist > marxist

From socialist to communist to anarchist.

Communism and anarchism both have their merits but neither could ever work, quite simply due to human nature. Anarchy's more or less still a dream.

Nowadays I'm a very left wing libertarian with some oddly conservative views in some respects.

Small government, universal health care, gay marriage, legalisation of drugs. You name it.

>>8650547

That sounds really quite agreeable. I'm >>8650624

Social democrat who then read some Heinlein and was a bit libertarianish for a while. Then I came to the conclusion it was hogwash and returned to social democracy again, though sometimes I vote for a center-liberal party that supports an issue I hold dear.

Nothing will turn you into an economic conservative faster than getting a real job and making some of your own money for once.

>>8650646
Exchange contact info?
My AIM is Jkid232

>So how has your political belief changed since youth? I went from mouth-foaming liberal to a moderate randfag.

Fix'd

I went from an apathetic douchebag to a trolling apathetic douchebag

>>8650703
bullshit, you cranky baby. conservatives are stingy, babyish whiners, not experienced, worldly realists. i would gladly keep less of my pay to gain more efficient, effective, government-run services. i would sacrifice my grocery budget for socialized food provision. i would sacrifice my car and gas budget for timely public transportation. i would sacrifice my insurance budget for state-sponsored protection of whatever needs insuring. it works better that way.