You think arresting the ringmaster of a global child molestation ring is a bad thing?

Thats pretty awsome.

What does OP find to be the problem?

>>8321722
>the ringmaster of a global child molestation ring

>Implying the pope is a paedophile
>implying he condoned the behaviour
>implying Dawkins isnt becoming 'reasons' version of the Westboro Baptist Church
>implying it wouldnt cause an absolute shitstorm and has any chance of success

>for the good of the universal church

Sure sounds like a cover-up to me.

more power to dawkins and hitchens. Fuck the pope. Palpatine motherfucker.

I'm not religious at all, but I can't stand this show pony faggot.

Oh, look. Richard Dawkins is ego-tripping again.

>>8321763
>implying he condoned the behaviour
Actually, he did. He was the one who set up the facilities to keep pedos in Vatican city so they were not prosecuted.

Just when I thought I couldn't love this man anymore...

Oh Dawkins... You are a beautiful, beautiful man.

Even if the pope isn't a pedophile, he condones what his priests do by not only sheltering them from harm, but forbidding the church from investigating them in the first place.

>The pope committed an act that is considered illegal
>Dawkins gets a legal team to arrest him
I am OK with this

>>8321737
By all means the whole idea of the church and its senior members as infallible is deeply flawed and dangerous and led to this child abuse.
Dawkind is becmoning a major pain in the ass with his constant lecturing from the pulpit.
Im not a Christ fag but find the whole
'HURR DURR I have reason on my side and you is stoopid'' mode of srgument a tad facile.

so, he is just like any other famous old man whose personal views devolve into pandering and corrosive bullshit. this is for show, it's a cute political mood.

>>8321858
I am drunk atm so ignore my spelling

>>8321873
move* gawhdammit

I see this nigga's packing on some weight.
Godspeed.

he's a old troll

What really tickle me about Dawkins is that hes apparently a great scientist. But hes most famous for his childish polemic attacks than anything else.
I wonder how his epitaph will read?

This is so fucking rad that my balls hurt just thinking about it. They should do the arrest COPS style, with cameramen and everyone's shrieking, covered in blood and naked from the waist up.

You know what, fuck all this, lets put Dawkins and the Pope in a ring and make them fight to the death, settle the science/religion thing once and for all

Anyone got the actual quote? I'm guessing the headline is a complete fabrication.

Dawkins doesn't believe in God, he believes he is the God. He is an arrogant, self-important fuckwit who is the biggest shit in a McDonalds toilet, a shit that belives he is the Emperor of Earth.

>>8321905

"Dawkins: Hated Jesus and good, god-fearing Americans."

"Also said something about genes."

Maybe God will descend from the Heavens to break the pope out of jail....

>>8321906
Fuck man, I'd pay to watch that. Cops rush in, try to subdue the Pope while he throws Force lightning and police cars around...shit would be so cash.

You should've posted this on /b/. They wouldn't have known whether to be happy that Christianity is being attacked or sad that a pedo enabler is being attacked.

Personally, I think Dawkins comes off as a bit of a tool sometimes, but I fully approve of this action.

Dawkins is SHOW BOATIN'.

I can't stand this self important douche.

>>8321905

"Richard Dawkins: tireless thorn in the side of religion, while you jacked off on 4chan scarfing down cheetos"

>>8321898
Don't you mean "an old" ?

he just went considerably in mine. About time someone did something about that nazi sympathizing pedophile

>>8321931

Haha and instead of the white trash wife you'd have like, an altar boy screaming "DON'T TAKE MY MAN, DON'T TAKE MY MAN, HE DON'T MEAN NO HARM HE JUST GETS CRAZY WHEN HE'S GOT TOO MUCH COMMUNION WINE IN HIM"

>>8321938

Hey, nobody's perfect. I'm sure you can get your head out of your ass and recognize this as a heroic act if you give it some effort.

>>8321924

If you'd read anything by dawkins you'd know hes one of the most humble scientists out there. He has that oldtime english gentleman persona.

You're confusing clarity with arrogance.

This is one of Dawkins' more reasonable actions.

Fuck the Pope.

What's the problem here?

>>8321924

What do you base that on, except that he disagrees with you?

This will probably come to nothing but if in fact the Pope did cover-up allegations of sexual abuse while the head of that department then it is well-deserved.

Imagine the shitstorm itd create. Think of te Muslim cartoon riots and then apply that to the majority of the countires inhabitants. Cos believe it or not when push comes to shove theyll all side with the religion cos its an expression of human endaevor or some crap like that

imagine the level of worldwide butthurt. holyyyyyyyyy shit

>>8322000
>Implying Catholics have any sort of power
What, is Italy going to finally do something after 500 years of fucking up? Is Malta going to shoot off some nuclear missiles? Hahahaha catholics.

I am not going to say that the Pope is a flawless character, but are these idiots really uneducated enough to believe that this man has a say in EVERY sexual abuse scandal in the catholic church? Hell no.
That shit happens at a local level, not at the fucking Vatican. Now, if they have reasonable proof that the pope himself was involved in this, go right ahead. But they don't, because he probably wasn't.

Stupid shit like this is why I hate Dawkins. Stick to science you idiot, social issues are obviously something beyond your grasp.

>Punishing a man who has protected child molesters time and time again.
>/r9k/: RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE

>>8321686
>Richard Dawkins
>faith section
>implying pseudo-science and misinterpreting biology is faith

I'm an atheist-fag and Dawkins is a fucking embarrassment to us. He's worse than a bible-basher.

Dawkins is the Westboro Baptist Church of Atheism.

>>8322044

Actually, yes, he was directly involved. He personally revised and signed off on 'crimen sollicitationis', the official church policy for silencing abuse victims. Google that shit.

>>8322044
>implying the pope doesn't protect every single pedophile by offering them sanctuary in the Vatican

OP here

Ah its nice to see the shit hit the fan on 4 chan.
I'll be off to bed now
TOODLES

>>8322044
Did you read the article? This has to do with stuff that happened while he was the HEAD of the Vatican's sexual abuse department. Therefore, he is accountable for whatever happened during his time as head.

ITT:

> Implying that only the Catholic church has ever had pedophilia and cover up scandals.

Huh, even if it doesn't work (and I doubt it will), bringing attention to the pope's words regarding these child abuse cases can only be bad for him.

Can't really hurt Dawkins though, everyone already knows he is a dick, and he clearly doesn't give a fuck.

>>8321905
"Here lies a jackass. I would say he is in a better place but he would call me stupid for writing that."

>>8322070

>Implying he does

master trolling

>>8322083
The truth.

The Prophet Muhammed fucked 13-year olds. It's in the fucking Quran.

>>8321962

It's easy to feign humbleness. He's worshipped by Atheists all over the world, and he's stayed totally humble? People aren't like that, as Dawkins would tell you.

>>8321980

I actually agree with him, but I just hate how intolerant he is. He acts like religion is the scourge of the planet and that all bad things happen because of it. He has no evidence that Benedict has done anything wrong, nor any basis for his claims of 'crimes against humanity', just his extremist beliefs. Has it not stuck anyone that perhaps the Pope is just like a figurehead in the Vatican? Maybe they don't run EVERY LITTLE THING by him?

>>8322051

I'm also an atheistag, and you're an embarrassment to atheists. Stop fucking apologizing for those of us who have spines and testicles you quivering, weepy little quisling.

>>8322083
Let's arrest the leaders of Protestantism and Islam too!

I don't understand why so many people hate on Dawkins. He promotes reason and knowledge. Sure, he isn't the most intelligent man on Earth, but he is pretty damn smart. His accomplishments towards biology may not be that large, but that is hardly nothing to criticize someone for. People call him whiny and a "show pony faggot." He became one of the main voices of atheism only because he was one of the first gifted speakers to actually speak up and take an anti-religion stance. A lot of people before him were atheists, but it was too taboo to talk shit about the blind followers of religion. He was one of the people that allowed us non-believers to voice out our opinion against the illogical beliefs of the "infallible." Yes he has ulterior motives in getting the pope arrested, but that doesn't change the fact that what the pope did was illegal and that he should face the consequences.

"We often refuse to accept an idea merely because the tone of voice in which it has been expressed is unsympathetic to us." - Friedrich Nietzsche

This perfectly describes a lot of your feelings for Dawkins, just because he is an asshole, doesn't mean he is wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_2xGIwQfik

>>8322097
Oh ok, 4/10, I guess.

I am a Catholic who thinks the church needs to step to the plate and start legitimately cracking down on these priests. I have read what the pope did when he had the chance to keep an abusive priest away from children, he really took no action and allowed the priest to be near kids for five more years. This is simply unacceptable. Something needs to be done, and at this point I don't know if Dawkins is going too far or not.
Either way, the fact that he is the loudest atheist voice in the world distracts from what needs to be done. This should not be about religion vs. atheism, it needs to be about protecting children. With that said i think Dawkins should keep a lower profile on this issue, to keep the philosophical religious debate from taking attention off of the real issue at hand.

>>8322110
>He became one of the main voices of atheism only because he was one of the first gifted speakers to actually speak up and take an anti-religion stance.

Please just leave now

-9000/10

>>8322101

Uh, you may want to see: >>8322069 before you continue this line of argument. He personally reviewed a number of abuse cases and pardoned/relocated the priest involved. He also revised and signed off on official church policy for keeping abuse victims quiet.

>Hitchens, author of God Is Not Great, said: This man is not above or outside the law. The institutionalised concealment of child rape is a crime under any law and demands not private ceremonies of repentance or church-funded payoffs, but justice and punishment.

Sounds right to me. What's the problem? Why should he be above the law?

>>8322101
> He has no evidence that Benedict has done anything wrong
Are you fucking serious? Holy shit.

>>8322138
>This man is not above or outside the law

>Implying the Pope isnt above any law

I approve of this idea. However, even if they can convince the authorities to arrest the Pope, convicting him will be VERY difficult, even with incontrovertible evidence. He's the fucking POPE, and the church still possesses enough power and influence to make this case difficult.

Here's hoping he gets his ass thrown in jail.

People who find dawkins embarrassing are closet faith heads and an embarrassment to intellectuals.

>>8322103
>Ooh, I wrote a book on how God isn't real based on psuedo-science, then use the money the book made buying adverts saying God doesn't exist and bringing frivolous lawsuits against people instead of donating it to charity

I don't mind militant atheists, but this guy is such a fucking hypocrite. He rails against Catholics for evangelising and wasting money when he is doing THE EXACT SAME THING.

He's a douche, through and through. He isn't advancing the atheist movement, he's regressing it. Anyone who has actually paid for his books is a moron.

>>8322103

And that, kids, is what Anjem Choudary must have been saying to all the moderate imams, just replace 'atheists' with Muslims.

There are plenty of paedos entering Britain , plenty paedos living thee. Why not chase them?

Why not go after the 4 chan paedos?

Dawkins is a show pony faggot whose ultimate goal ,like all men, is to create a lasting monument to himself. The fact that the bible is the ulitmate monument to a mans life rankles the fucker which is why he hates it so much.

>>8322160

You know he runs a charity right? What a waste on money.

>>8322157
>implying dawkins is an intellectual

>>8322157
Except Dawkins isn't an intellectual, he just rails against Christianity and writes books aimed at presumptuous and easily-influenced morons, then spends the money on his own campaign against Christfags.

Real Atheists would just not care.

>>8322160

http://givingaid.richarddawkins.net/

>>8322113
Few if any people would call him wrong on 4chan. Don't act like atheism is this amazing revelation. He's just a dick and promoting the whole "atheists are bitter and spiteful and full of hate" view that Christians use to reinforce their own beliefs.

Personally this seems not-unreasonably justified of Dawkins. It's within legal reason.

...but also just a really bad idea.

Drive the wedge between religious and non-religious a little deeper, why don't you?

DAWKINS STOP HAVING REASONABLY JUSTIFIED BUT REALLY BAD IDEAS.

>>8322110
Dawkins is trying too hard to be Bertrand Russell. If Russell was alive today, this would be his face if he saw Dawkins:

I like Dawkins but I kind of want the Pope to stay in power or whatever it is that he does.

The head of a religious institution looking like a Sith lord is too amusing to pass up.

>>8322192
>implying Atheism is some sort of ideology that has "real" followers

>>8322205
Even so, he should stop spending money on stupid hate campaigns based on nothing but his own prejudice and donate it to people who need it.

I find it interesting that to be a fundamentalist religionist you have fly planes into buildings and shoot people but to be a militant atheist all you have to do is write one book.

Yeah. One book.

All his other books are exclusively about biology.

>>8322224
There are atheists and then there are Dawkins-fags.

Atheists get on with their lives and don't give two shits about spirituality or atheism.

Dawkins-fags go to secular/atheist society meetings so they can meet other atheists in rooms and talk about the gods that they don't believe in.

Which ones are more productive to society?

>>8322224
It actually does

>>8322134

Uh, you may want to re-read my post; "Do you think that they run EVERY LITTLE THING by him?"

No, he probably has people to sign these things for him. Do you think that the PM signs things himself? Fuck no! He's too busy shooting up smack!

Look, I'm not a Catholic, I think it's crap, but think of it this way; the Vatican is a bastardization of modern and archaic bureaucracies, and that is bound to be more pissed-up than the EU and UK combined.

Finally! Two people in Britain whose reaction to this is something more than smirking and wisecracks.

>>8321686
This is fucking awesome, everyone who disagrees is a faggot.

Arrest the Pope, declare war against Catholicism.

Episode of South Park.

Atheism has followers like baldness does.

>>8322240
Honestly, if there was enough Dawkins fanboys out there, and if they lived in the kind of shitty conditions Muslims do, they would be blowing shit up.

Dawkins and his assembled lynch mob of hipsters and pseudo-intellectuals versus British riot cops and probably a combined bodyguard detachment from the SAS and Swiss Gaurd with snipers and backup fire-teams from CO-19 on standby.

I honestly cannot fucking wait for this...

>>8322214
aint it the truth, i mean, the guy is intelligent and all. But he's little vindictive and is the exact same, hypocritical, douche drinking asshole as the people he condemns

>>8322245

IMO, athiests have an obligation to be loud and obnoxious. While we should not necessarily adopt an anti-religious stance, we should take a pro-science stance. The percentage of people in america who believe in evolution is just sickening. We're losing an ideological war to retards.

>>8322240
False comparison. Plenty of otherwise perfectly decent religious folk could be described as militant for the sole fact that they won't accept you not holding their belief. Militant does not imply dangerous.

>>8322210

I couldn't careless if someone wanted to be religious. I think it's a little ridiculous, but that's their prerogative. What I do care about is when people get off for molestation, when homosexuals are refused basic human rights, when theists pick and choose from the bible and the constitution to justify whatever they please.

>>8322287
Yeah, but the big difference is that he's right.

>>8322245

The politically active atheists you hate are the ones campaigning for gay rights, for access to abortion, against creationism in schools and so on.

Do you really oppose that?

>>8322277

You...do realize Britain is predominantly atheistic, right? And that Dawkins is pretty much a rockstar over there?

They'll be eating out his asshole while he murders the pope with a powerdrill.

>>8322252
Even if that's the case he's still accountable for the actions of his subordinates.

>>8322245
> Atheists get on with their lives and don't give two shits about spirituality or atheism.

Vast generalization.. atheism only says you don't believe in the existence of deities. Doesn't follow at all about not caring about spirituality or atheism.

> Dawkins-fags go to secular/atheist society meetings so they can meet other atheists in rooms and talk about the gods that they don't believe in.

May be true, but I'm sure other discussion goes on too. And what's wrong with that?

>Which ones are more productive to society?

This question makes no sense? Productivity isn't measured by if you're an atheist or a "dawkins fag"

>>8322249
I'd like to know what it is?

>>8322245

Actually they talk about ways they can improve society by basing it on reason instead of blind unthinking faith. Atheists don't actually talk about gods any more than they talk about faeries.

>>8322270

If they lived in the kind of conditions Muslims do, they'd be religious. Atheism occurs only where the populace is sufficiently well educated to understand how the universe and life came to be without resorting to supernaturalism, and where the standard of living is high enough that they don't require religion as an emotional refuge from the barbarism of everyday life.

>>8322319

Is the rapist in the alleyway resposible for the AI-

bad comparison.

Is the Queen responible for the retarded police force in these glorious Shit-ish Isles?

>>8322307
No they're not. The people campaigning for gay rights are gays, many of whom are religious. The people campaigning for abortion rights are feminists, many of whom are religious.

In fact, a lot of anti-gay and anti-abortion people are secular too. Some secular people just find gays disgusting, and some secular humanists believe abortion is wrong.

Many religious people don't even believe in creationism, it is just some people are retarded enough to believe in it.

>>8322341
thats why a large portion of the 9/11 hijackers lived in europe and had PhDs, right?

>>8322318

And they hundreds of douchebags that will assemble for this massive open air circle jerk will have to get through some of the best trained and armed and armed security forces on the planet to reach their prize. It'll be a fucking spectacle the likes of which we haven't seen since Blackwater shot up half of downtown Baghdad.

>>8322083
>it's okay because others do it too!

>>8322350

If she issued the orders, then yeah. If she personally covered up their actions, then yeah.

ITT: Christians/Catholics feel uncomfortable, get a little hot and bothered and release a little steam by weekly verbally lashing out at their ill-conceived perpetual bogey man.

Original text:

"religious believer"

...54 translations later we get:

"Nervous"

How dare he spend his money on furthering a cause he believes in and not snorting crack of the backs of Latino Jailbait in his fabulous mansion, only coming into the spotlight to spew some more rhetoric when he needs to pay off his dealer. What a sellout!

Face it, the more popular something becomes, the more eager the faggots of /r9k/ are to hate on the thing or person. Obviously you can't be seen as a tough, edgy intellectual if you don't hate on what the majority of people seem to be latching on to. Everybody absolutely loved the shit out of him before he became mainstream, now the use any chance to be opposed to him, regardless of what he is even doing.

If this guy was just some random schmuck who did this, you'd still be hating on him, telling him to go after the pope. the sooner we cast off the yoke of thousands of years of religious control the better for all. The churches have had so long to get settled right into everything, it's about time the got plucked out, it won't be pleasant but we need people willing be be the focus, people who can take it. I know some fool is going to go HURR DUURR U TROLL because this challenges their behavior and they hate it when people don't fall in line and feast in a glorious circle-jerk of mutual masturbation and ego stroking about how cool, smart and edgy they are for being so nonconformist.

You guys are as bad as the hispters you constantly whinge about. Some of you are all right though, keep up the good work, we might not all see eye to eye but knowing that there are people out there who don't just jump on bandwagons and hate unconditionally is comforting.

>>8322395

>ITT: Atheists feel uncomfortable, get a little hot and bothered and release a little steam by weekly verbally lashing out at their ill-conceived perpetual bogey man

>>8322324
>May be true, but I'm sure other discussion goes on too.

I doubt it does. The groups exist in direct opposition to the prevailing religious atmosphere and I'm sure are mostly concerned with finding ways to destroy that atmosphere, and "convert" people away from religion.

I mean why wouldn't they, they may not believe in gods but they do think they have a better way of living, of course they'll try to spread it.

>>8322395
>Dawkins fanboy losing argument, can't defend his retarded messiah, decides to deliver mass ambiguous insult

BTW I'm an atheist and Dawkins gives atheism a bad name. His book is one of the most retarded, pompous, pseudo-scientific pieces of shit I've ever read.

>>8321931
>>8322277

this would be amusing enough to pay to watch

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6925781.ece
>Irony at its best. If you don't understand, read the most recommended comments.

>>8322366

Yes, exactly. Because there were few or no opportunities in their native countries, they were aging, sexually frustrated men who were promised harems in the afterlife, and there's a statistical trend towards intense religiosity among engineers that has to do with their thought process (being in the business of designing things themselves they are inclined to accept religious arguments from design)

>>8322455

You're not an atheist. You don't get to be. The rest of us have decided that we don't need self-hating traitors representing us. Pack your shit and get out.

>>8322101
Wow, I actually didn't realize how stupid the majority of /r9k/ is.

Godspeed, Dawkins.

>>8321931
omg, lol. someone needs to make this video

Remove the religious aspect to Catholicism and you fuckfaces would be cheering on Dawkins. The Pope is creating a safe-haven for child molesters. He is hiding their identity and preventing them from being arrested. If it was any other person in the world they would've been arrested by now.

The only reason we're still talking about this is the kikes in the media.

>>8322351

What's there to argue with? You're a liar. Statistics clearly show that there's a sharp religious/irreligious divide when it comes to support for gay rights and access to abortion. If you honestly deny that, you're delusional.

Dawkins = some old ugly faggot that pictures himself as a shining knight in golden plated armor with shimmering winds and a glowing sword of fire, purging the world of evil

He's just a douche

>>8321763

This. I'm not a theist- I wouldn't necessarily consider myself atheist either- but would defend the pope on this bullshit because HE NEVER RAPED ANY KIDS. He didn't even fucking condone it. What did they want him to do? He has no power outside the church. Fortunately, there will be no arrest and even if there was, it wouldn't effect me- so fuck this, I'm getting high.

>>8322517
Goddamn Jews are behind everything, shit.

>>8322518
Hmm, you produce no facts and call me a liar without any evidence to contradict me. I win.

what a gay libtard
ya the churchs slips up on 1 little thing, but what about all the good the churchs has done for the world. grow up faggots

>>8322430

Wait, what? Atheists are a minority. The edgy position is to agree with him.

And the Church's been in charge of jack shit for a while now. Not all Christians are Catholics, and not all Catholics would jump off a bridge if the Pope told them to. St. Peter's has been hemorrhaging power for centuries.

>>8322483
Oh God, you're everything that is wrong with atheism.
>YOU DON'T BELIEVE LIKE I BELIEVE, THEREFORE YOU'RE NOT THE SAME RELIGION AS ME

>>8322455

In that case you're a idiot. I don't say that to be insulting; I'm going dictionary definition #1:

noun
1.
an utterly foolish or senseless person.

The God Delusion was a summary of all the dumbest arguments for god and Dawkins definitively and decisively cleaned them up. The theists should be thanking him for making way for some good arguments for god.

p.s. you don't know what pseudo-science means

>>8322518

> delusional

And where did we learn that big word from again whilst we were making WMG fat on the sales of Green Day records?

>>8322505

All "I AM THE SENATE" when Dawkins goes to arrest him

>>8322387

For fucks sake, read my previous comment! It's a centuries old bureaucracy! It is worldwide! The pope does things with his day! He can't see every issue, and the preists may have just fucked about behind his back!

He may have done it, but what annoys me is that everyone sees the Church as some sort of pefect system, that never hides things from a head of state that is essentially just an old man.

>>8322546
At no point in your post did you contradict anything I said. You just insulted me without addressing my post.

dawkins would fuck a kid for the good of the universal church of atheism

>>8322556
Dude, the stuff they are trying to arrest him over DID NOT OCCUR WHILE HE WAS THE POPE. Let's say the head of a police department commits some sort of crime and it's covered. This police chief then later becomes the President of the United States.

He is still accountable for the crimes he committed in the past man.

>>8322430
this is basically the universal defense given by angsty oppressed suburban 14 year olds whose life revolves around some inane bit of pop culture and cant comprehend that anything could possibly be wrong with it.

>>8322454

> I doubt it does. The groups exist in direct opposition to the prevailing religious atmosphere and I'm sure are mostly concerned with finding ways to destroy that atmosphere, and "convert" people away from religion.

Well I would disagree. I doubt the main focus is always on "converting" the religious. It's not like a training camp. It can be about understanding the religious society, or talking about morals and human rights outside of a religious framework.

> they do think they have a better way of living, of course they'll try to spread it.

I don't know you mean by that exactly. Not all atheists would hold themselves up to be moral paragons, but I think ANY person could see some of the atrocities committed in the name of religious belief and want to change that.

loool at all the theists attempting to bring atheists down to their level with "baww they're just as bad as us baww" arguments.

atheist = lacks belief in god
afairyist = lacks belief in fairies

atheism and theism aren't your only options

>>8322539
>tard
>faggots
>poor grammar, no capitalisation

Typical Christian.

>>8322649

What if the police chief gets shot and made into a Promethean?

>>8322718
Fuck off, agnosticfag, we're not talking about you and your fence-sitting ilk.

>>8322747
Alright man you lost me here.

>>8322718

actually they are strictly speaking. It's completely binary.

You either believe in a god or you don't. (Hint: If you 'don't know' then you don't believe because if you did believe... you'd know it.)

If you believe in a god you're a theist otherwise you are not a theist, that is a non-theist, i.e an a-theist.

religious fervour is a bad thing whatever the religion in question, atheism included

>>8322675
>I think ANY person could see some of the atrocities committed in the name of religious belief and want to change that.

Well, that's what I'm talking about, except you're rephrasing it so it doesn't sound like converting, because converting is a dirty word.

Religion is bad - so religion should be done away with - so religious people should be turned away from their religions, onto our path of atheist reason.

is it fuck completely binary, it's a classic false dichotomy

>>8322718
This. >>8322771

But you can throw in agnosticism and gnosticism into the mix. This explains it well: http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/09/25/8419/

i hope he succeeds
oh fuck do i hope he succeeds

>>8322796

Oh lawdy is that sum crusades I see?

you can believe there's no god
you can believe there's a god
you can believe both of those beliefs to be irrational

>>8322814

It's binary by definition.

There is a subgroup of all people called 'theists'. These people believe in a god.

All the people who aren't in that group are not theists, by definition, they'd be in the group if they were. 'atheist' means 'not theist' broadly speaking. Everyone not in the 'theist' group is a 'non theist', an 'a-theist'.

Some (a minority) of atheists go further than not being a theist an explicitly reject the idea of god but that is not necessary requirement. Simples.

>>8322833
this

Because even the Pope is not exempt from the law

atheist doesn't mean 'not theist' though
it's like saying you're either a communist or a fascist
false dichotomy

Uhh no ones really given a good reason why he shouldn't be arrested yet.

Instead of talking about how much you guys hate dawkins lets talk about that.

>>8322864

>you can believe there's no god
theists

>you can believe there's a god
atheists

>you can believe both of those beliefs to be irrational
also atheists because they are not theists

>>8322917

But it's much more fun to let it all descend into the usual religious trolling thread!

In case Dawkins hasn't noticed, Pope Benedict has his own fucking country.

That's like arresting Kim Jong Il.

>>8322796

> Religion is bad - so religion should be done away with - so religious people should be turned away from their religions, onto our path of atheist reason.

There are many atheists who think that way, like Hitchens and Dawkins of course, and thus target religion as a whole, but not all do.

I understand where they're coming from but I also think being religious and being a good person is perfectly compatible--take most moderates. Even Hitchen's doesn't believe religion will ever be wiped out completely, because it's a tendency in us to believe in a God when we can't explain shit.

I think they are mainly targeting the fundamentalism, people who reject reality for the book and thus are willing to justify murder etc. with "God". This is more an attack against anti-intellectualism than religion, as I see it.

In any case, "atheist reason" doesn't really make sense. Being an atheist doesn't mean you got to your point there logically and scientifically. You can be born and raised atheist just as much as a a person can be born and raised religious, and you have good atheists just as much as you have bad atheists too.

>>8322864
>agnosticfag thinks he is smart and plays with words
>you can believe there is no god
I prefer to call it a "lack of belief in god" as I don't religiously believe that there is no god.

>>8322914

No it's nothing like that. Atheist is defined as not being a theist (broadly speaking). I mean seriously, look it up.

If there were no theists we'd have no use for the word. It's like a non-racist. You are either racist, or you're a non-racist and you're either a theist or you're a non-theist.

You're attempting to say that all atheists make the claim "there is no god" when the VAST majority have never made that claim and never will.

>>8322914
no, a proper analogy would be:
you can either be a communist or a non-communist.

>>8322914

not true. It's like saying 'theist' and 'atheists'.

They are inclusive and exclusive by definition. It's like sayi
g male and female. Dumbyfuck

>>8322970

he's visiting the uk

>>8322970
>>8322970

FTA: "There is every possibility of legal action against the Pope occurring," said Stephens. "Geoffrey and I have both come to the view that the Vatican is not actually a state in international law. It is not recognised by the UN, it does not have borders that are policed and its relations are not of a full diplomatic nature."

>>8322917
I think we figured the whole "it would be a huge national embarrassment from the Britain and an incredibly poor PR move for a movement struggling to be recognized as non-aggressive" was pretty obvious, sorry for overestimating you

Not to say there aren't good reasons for it, but we don't live in a world that thinks the pope should be treated like everyone else. No one would possibly be motivated enough to go through with arresting him, let alone convict him. It's all just a big publicity stunt.

>>8323011

Gnosticism and agnosticism are aspects of either the atheistic or theistic position. One can be agnostic about their atheism, simply by leaning towards atheism without treating it as a firm conviction. You're assuming everyone involved is 100% certain of their position when that's rarely the case.

>>8323022
Then it's in Italy. And those Italian fuckers believe it's not part of Italy.

So it's not, even if it is.

repeat, not binray
srsly, a philosophy of religion 101 course would tell you this
atheism is premised on the notion that the question of god's existence is a matter of empirical fact (as is theism)
it's a prefectly coherent position to reject this shared assumption
understand the positions you attack/defend
male and female aren't binary either btw

>>8323098

It's doesn't assume 100% certainty at all.

Do you agree that if you believe in god you'd know that you believe in god? This seems pretty self evident to me.

Those people who do believe in god are theists. Agree so far?

Everyone else is not a theist. Still with me?

not a theist = atheist

I assume I just lost you at that last step. If so this is purely trivial semantic point over which word to use, not the concept itself.

>>8321686

> atheism is premised on the notion that the question of god's existence is a matter of empirical fact (as is theism)

atheism isn't premised on anything since it makes no claims. Atheists are the ones who DON'T make the claim "there is a god", not the people who claim "this is no god". Those people who explicitly claim "this is no god" are called strong atheists, not the common weak atheist. Most atheists are the weak kind, Dawkins certainly is. Hitchens is the only public figure I can think of who explicitly makes the claim "this is no god".

If the Pope was the CEO of an international corporation that systematically obstructed justice in NEARLY EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD by withholding evidence of felony sexual assault against defenseless children, he would have to be hiding in a cave like Osama bin Laden to avoid prosecution for his crimes.

Get fucking real. You're mad at Dawkins for "being a jerk" about religion? The person deserving your anger is the guy who ran the biggest sexual assault coverup in history. But he gets a free pass because he's a religious figure.

Remember that the Pope is the same man who declared that cooperation with local authorities is an offense worthy of excommunication. That's the perfect way to illustrate his view of morality: bringing justice to a pedophile is considered an unforgivable crime, while raping a 7-year-old child is just fine.

You have to admit it would be the funniest thing if the pope was arrested and held under house arrest like pinochet
even funnier if he has to use the whole "unfit to be tried route"
Lulz

>>8322192
>implying a professional academic isn't an intellectual

HOLY SHIT THIS IS AWESOME

GOOGOGOGOGOOG DAWKINS.

I SUPOSE 4CHAN SUPPORT THIS. ARRESTING THE POPE WOULD BE -EPIC-

Richard Dawkins has always been a self-serving, egomaniacal gas bag. His zealotry is on par with all of the religious people he so gleefully dismisses and insults, which makes him just as big a hypocrite as those he accuses. He gives atheism a bad name.

this shit could be epic. i shall support him

>>8325759
You're such a faggot. Yeah, Dawkins totally blows up synagogues and cuts off 9-year-old girls' clitorises. He's just as bad as them for expressing a fucking opinion.

Religion has poisoned your fucking mind.

holy shit im so excited about this. this could be e-p-i-c

/sci/ has more of a discussion
>>>/sci/695202

I was actually thinking about this myself earlier today. By all rights, shouldn't the Vatican be treated much the same as a child prostitution ring would, in front of a UN tribunal?

Why? I'm even religious (although not Catholic, or even Christian, but I'd support this even if this was ostensibly one of my people) and I don't think people who cover up and enable the rape of children ought not to get all the shit in the world for it, up to and including criminal prosecution.

Also, anything that furthers the development of a real system of international law is a step in the right direction. Hopefully next Hitchens will pull this on Kissinger.

>>8325759
Your idiocy is rivaled only by that of the most retarded of retards.

For the last time, imbeciles, the problem is not religion, the problem is the RELATIONS OF PRODUCTION IN THE CAPITALIST MODE OF PRODUCTION.
You bunch of uneducated cretin barking and fapping at the wrong tree, as usual.
You can kill the pope, you can kill all the fucking presidents and CEOs in the world. NOTHING WILL CHANGE. Read some History books with FACTS, instead of listening to the king of cretins making empty threats. Like the worse of the religious sheep you're easy prey to demagogues. Grow up, retards.

SHIT IS GOING DOWN, GUYS. SHIT IS GOING DOWN.

>>8326160
LOL, I agree, we should simply stop prosecuting criminals altogether, I mean nothings going to change, no point wasting money locking them up or punishing them. Then you tell us to grow up, the only one who needs to grow up is you (intellectually).

l fully do not support his actions, so I love him for his amazing trolling skills. I hope Dawkins does get to arrest the pope so that Catholics worldwide would shit their pants and go insane.

>>8326204
I hope they give him 3 years of prison, and do not accept an appeal. MMM CATHOLIC TEARS! WHO'S INFALLIBLE NOW ASSHOLES THE FUCKING LAW!

>>8326259

>doesn't understand papal infallibility

At least look shit up on wikipedia before you open your mouth.

>>8326195
Yeah, Capitalist justice is there to go after the rich and the powerful. Just look at the dead row in the US. 99% of the criminals there are member of the hegemonic class.

>>8326297
Oh my God, someone took some liberties with the truth in order to make a joke! The world is coming to an end because of all this ignorance! What should we do? God help us!

>>8326297
MMM CATHOLIC TEARS ALREADY! It's too early to be rejoicing in your misery though.

>>8326322
Capitalism has nothing to with criminal legality. HURR DURR.

haha good one guys

fuck we need some drawfags on this NOW

>>8326364
What I like about you cretins, uneducated atheists is the fact that you don't know shit about historical MATERIALISM. You braindead retards have no idea of what infrastructure and superstructure are, yet, you believe, like the most imbecile religious believer, that you know everything there is to know about society and how it is organized. Let me put it in a simple way in the hopes that you understand, IT'S THE ECONOMY, STUPID.

>>8326334

I'm not a Christian, but you are still a retard.

Holy shit....

man i'm religious and i never really use to HATE this guy as such. Now i want to bludgeon him with a biology text book.
When i first read God Delusions i thought he raised some valid questions and that he may be a good way to balance things and make unquestioning religious people take a look at themselves but the more i hear of this man the more i begin to hate him.
I don't think he does things to better the world. i think he does it to stroke his already inflated ego. he's not even that good a scientist.

Next he plans to convert Muslims to evolutionists.
The problem is most of us already are. The Qu'ran even says the universe exploded and expands from a single point.

Child molestation happens daily and is twice as rampant in other organizations and countries. But i minority of a minority do something bad and its blown out of proportion 100x. More still if they are religious or not white.

>>8326764

>But i minority of a minority do something bad and its blown out of proportion 100x. More still if they are religious or not white.

yeah fucking true.
Here in Britain if a white or secular person murders someone the news says "Man, 26, Murders wife"
If its a religious person "MUSLIM, 26, Murders wife"

as if somehow the crime is worse because of religion or race. Now it's the catholics turn to cop it

>Dawkins arrests the pope
>Accomplishes nothing but pissing off Catholics
>British government deals with a pissed off Latin America for the rest of it's existence.

So really all he would accomplish by this is causing a shitstorm. Not that most Catholics even give a fuck about the pope, just Dawkins' blatant bigotry is enough to piss us off.

>>8326764
So what you're saying is that the Pope should get a free pass to protect CHILD RAPISTS on numerous occasions because other institutions have a higher child-rape rate?

So let's say an Amish person murders somebody. Should he get a free pass because in general the Amish aren't a very violent group of people? Now let's say this Amish person murders three people that we know of. Does he still get a pass?

>>8321686

>>he's not even that good a scientist.
Do you even know what his job is?

>>Next he plans to convert Muslims to evolutionists.
He plans to teach evolution to everyone, it's his job.

>>Child molestation happens daily and is twice as rampant in other organizations and countries. But i minority of a minority do something bad and its blown out of proportion 100x. More still if they are religious or not white.

So the Pope isn't white? The reason he is doing this is to prove that just because you are a member of a certain religion doesn't mean you are above the law and should be held accountable for your actions.

>>8326764

>The problem is most of us already are
>of us
>Muslim
>on 4chan

Isn't that against all sorts of your laws?

The deal here is that he should not be allowed to get away with it just because he is the pope.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLUX0y4EptA

Look at me
Look at me
Driving and I won't stop
And it feels so good to be
Alive and on top
My reach is global
My tower secure
My cause is noble
My power is pure
I can hand out a million vaccinations
Or let'em all die in exasperation
Have'em all healed of their lacerations
Have'em all killed by assassination
I can make anybody go to prison
Just because I don't like'em and
I can do anything with no permission
I have it all under my command
I can guide a missile by satellite
By satellite
By satellite
and I can hit a target through a telescope
Through a telescope
Through a telescope
and I can end the planet in a holocaust
In a holocaust
In a holocaust
In a holocaust
In a holocaust
In a holocaust

You silly people keep demonizing Dawkins even when he goes after scum like the pope.


Really? You think the Pope is above the law?

You all make me sick.
P.S. Enjoy being blinded by your butthurt.

>>8326867
I don't think Britain gives a fuck about Latin America.

I've always thought Dawkins was an asshole, but honestly, I kind of agree with him here.

>>8326991

I am demonizing Dawkins because he does not give a fuck about children and only cares about the pope..well, because it's the pope.
He is motivated by all the wrong reasons.

>>8326867
It is blatant bigotry (against Catholics) to try and punish a child molester-enabler? Isn't that just an admission that child molestation is such an important part of being Catholic?

>>8327002
Britain loves Venezuela's oil, I believe.

>>8327039
>Implying anyone in Venezuela actually controls what the government does

>>8327031

He is attempting to bring the ones responsible for this cover-up to justice.

Who cares what his motives are, it's the right thing to do.

>>8327037
No.

Child molestation isn't any more common in the catholic church then it is in any other organization, statistically.
What pisses me off is that he literally is only doing this because he hates religious people. You think he would do all this shit if somebody like Sam Harris was the pope? Hell no he wouldn't, he'd be defending the asshole.

>>8326884
i don't think he should get away with anything. im just amused that a few rapings get shitloads of media attention because Bawwwkins is an attention whore while children in south east asia and africa are passed around like currency, and get nothing. You basically put words in my mouth.

>>8326893

yeah i know he is an evolutionary biologist employed by a university to teach evolution etc. But just as religion should be kept out of politics, politics and opinion should be kept out of teaching.

>>8326957
4chan is fine. i mostly use the language board anyway.

>>8327073
>opinion should be kept out of teaching.
No room for debates, huh? Typical mudslime.

I'm for it. I believe the message is that "It doesn't matter if you're the head of a massive religion, you should still be held accountable for trying to cover up a crime."

I mean, citing "for the good of the church"? Really? To cover up child molestation? He and Hitchens are basically standing up and saying "you can't get away with that just because you have a big religion"

>>8326979

i cant see how that song applies at all
but i fucking love it so much

>>8327070
>What pisses me off is that he literally is only doing this because he hates religious people

100% true.

For the record, Dawkins is payed a fuckload when he does this kind of thing. Attention whoring generates the doe

I bet the Church of England is loving this shit. Anglicans have been trolling the pope since Henry VIII so I have no doubt that they would back Dawkins.

>>8327073

>>But just as religion should be kept out of politics, politics and opinion should be kept out of teaching.

Like the opinion that a dictatorship is worse than democracy? The pope is a dictator of sorts.

Keeping politics out of teaching would be a grievous mistake in any form. That is MY opinion.

>>8327132
>doe
lolwut

>>8327070
Got a link for the part about molestation being just as common for the catholics? I'd be curious to see if that's true.

As for defending Sam Harris if he pulled that shit, you got it backwards. Dawkins isn't against those who indirectly condone pedophilia because they're religious; he's against religion because it causes people to condone shit like pedophilia (amongst other things).

>>8327139
unless politics was relevant to a lesson, it should be left out.
Biology =/= Politics. And opinion should be kept out of all teaching.

So wait, you guys agree what the Pope's done is obstruction of justice, and presumably you agree he's not above the law. But you're against it anyway just because Dawkins is anti-religious, and that might have driven him to do this?

>>8327139
here

>>8327182
>>Biology =/= Politics. And opinion should be kept out of all teaching.

I agree with, the rest however I do not.

I find it interesting that most people who think Dawkins is a showboating fucktard get most of what they know about him from articles about him and not his own speech/writing.

I find him to be a pretty reasonable(herp derp) guy. It's just that "I really honestly think that religion itself is bad for society" is farther than it's acceptable to go for most people. He's not crazy, he's just very determined

>>8327031
>>I am demonizing Dawkins because he does not give a fuck about children

Got some back-up for this assertion, slugger?

dawkblawk

Orthodox Church here. I lol'd.

>>8327108
yeah good job. you sure showed me.

PS. Mohammad is spelt wrong in that picture.

>>8327326
>Mohammad is spelt wrong
>Mohammad
I lol'd.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad

>>8327307
Interesting. I wonder why that could be.

>>8327031
No no no, you have it all backwards. Dawkins wants the POPE arrested, not the kids.

Dawkins isn't picking on the Pope because he hates religion.

He picks on religion because it creates people like the Pope.

>>8327624
Well, that hit the nail on the head!

Everyone who believed that headline has learnt an important lesson today.

"Comment #478580 by Richard Dawkins on April 11, 2010 at 8:48 am
Needless to say, I did NOT say "I will arrest Pope Benedict XVI" or anything so personally grandiloquent. You have to remember that The Sunday Times is a Murdoch newspaper, and that all newspapers follow the odd custom of entrusting headlines to a sub-editor, not the author of the article itself.

What I DID say to Marc Horne when he telephoned me out of the blue, and I repeat it here, is that I am whole-heartedly behind the initiative by Geoffrey Robertson and Mark Stephens to mount a legal challenge to the Pope's proposed visit to Britain. Beyond that, I declined to comment to Marc Horme, other than to refer him to my 'Ratzinger is the Perfect Pope' article here: http://richarddawkins.net/articles/5341

Here is what really happened. Christopher Hitchens first proposed the legal challenge idea to me on March 14th. I responded enthusiastically, and suggested the name of a high profile human rights lawyer whom I know. I had lost her address, however, and set about tracking her down. Meanwhile, Christopher made the brilliant suggestion of Geoffrey Robertson. He approached him, and Mr Robertson's subsequent 'Put the Pope in the Dock' article in The Guardian shows him to be ideal:
http://richarddawkins.net/articles/5366
The case is obviously in good hands, with him and Mark Stephens. I am especially intrigued by the proposed challenge to the legality of the Vatican as a sovereign state whose head can claim diplomatic immunity.

Even if the Pope doesn't end up in the dock, and even if the Vatican doesn't cancel the visit, I am optimistic that we shall raise public consciousness to the point where the British government will find it very awkward indeed to go ahead with the Pope's visit, let alone pay for it.

Richard"

http://richarddawkins.net/articles/5415