>>8069223
bumpin' for good thread

All I know is that my friend can now receive a heart-valve replacement without the insurance company telling him that it's a pre-existing condition and that they aren't going to cover him, and that makes me happy.

Around '07 I had some health problems... the doctor said it was Crohn's disease and later retracted his statement but my insurance company still says I have a pre-existing condition and refuses to cover me. I am so glad this bill was passed.

>>8069278
That's pretty cool to hear, actually. I'm anxious to hear more positive stories from this rather than the negative whining from those who oppose it.

>>8069278
Why should a health insurance company waste its yacht money on sick people? Denying people for pre-existing conditions is what made America win the Cold War.

>>8069278
I wish I had a reaction image that could represent my "d'aww to the verge of tears."

>>8069351
Positive:
>I can get the medicine I need and the medicine I paid for.
Negative:
>FUCKING COMMIES ARE GOING TO DESTROY MURRICA!

Oh, great, this thread again. Seriously, there have been a shit ton of these already.

My stupid fucking conservative neighbor had my mother thinking she was going to lose her Medicare coverage. I had to show my mom that these "OMG MEDICARE CUTS" weren't going to affect her or most people at all, and that in fact they would improve it over the next 10 years.

>>8069400
The "Medicare cuts" are actually cutting the republican made program called "Medicare part D" which is a give away for private insurance/medical supply companies. In order to enroll in "Medicare part D" (aka, Medicare Advantage) you have to give up Medicare for life.
So republicans are not only lying, they did the exact opposite of what they are complaining about (as usual).

Not really related to healthcare but;

Why do people think their opinion matters? About anything? I understand unimportant things like favorite foods or music, but do people really think their opinions on matters that effect more people than just themselves are more important than else's?

>>8069351

Canadafag here.

I have a friend with hemophilia, and another with crohn's disease. Any time I get bummed about my taxes, I remember that they're both alive and not in a mountain of debt.

>>8069503
But in America, you pull yourself up by your own bootstraps, get a job, earn money and invent your own cure for hemophilia and crohn's disease.

>>8069555
No, you stay sick, discouraged, and poor. I can't imagine how lost some of these people must feel when they suddenly fall ill. My dad has cancer and even in Canada it put our family in debt, they lost the house and had to move into an apartment, my parents, who worked their entire lives. My mom would have died by now if she had to shoulder the entire burden.

This just in: People don't like it when govermnents do things they don't want them to do. This is the same for liberals as it is for conservatives. Complaining about complaining is also exactly what supporters of a government always engage in.

>>8069631

The problem is that opposition to healthcare reform is backed by people who have plenty of money to begin with to afford top care. So they then make up a bunch of bullshit about socialism, communism, waiting periods, death panels, etc, to scare their less financially fortunate sheep into backing them up on it.

God damn, I'm so tired of Democrats whining about others protesting this healthcare bill. I hear this shit at work every fucking day.

"BAWW THE REPUBLICANS HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS THEN ME!
"BAWW I HAVEN'T READ THE BILL BUT I'M CERTAIN IT WILL MAKE THINGS BETTER."
"BAWW A SMALL PERCENTAGE OF CONSERVATIVES AREN'T BEING RATIONAL!"
"BAWWW WE SHOULD FORCE OUR CHOICES DOWN EVERYONES THROATS"

Fuck you guys, seriously.

Just because YOU wan the healthcare bill doesn't mean OTHER people want it too. Despite thinking the world revolves around you and your ilk, it doesn't. What you think doesn't matter if more people think the opposite*. The government isn't ignoring you if it's still basing its decisions on what the majority wants.**

And yes, the majority want healthcare reform. When asked individual things from the healthcare bill, the majority of people want those cherry picked things. When asked about the bill itself, most people are confused and don't even know what's in it anymore. Nice job on that guys. Your "healthcare reform" whitewashing campaign worked great in that regard at least.

99% of you democrats don't know what's in the healthcare bill either, nor do you understand anything associated with why it's needed, since your mindset is to generally follow the leader. And the leaders are getting handouts from the health insurance industry, so you know where their loyalty lies. There are so many people out there with legitimate opposition to the bill that their concerns have been totally buried by the bullshit democratic generalizations and whitewashing.

>>8069815
lullllllll didn't see that coming!!!111111111111

>>8069815

So, to reiterate, fuck democrats. Fuck your whining, whitewashing, bullshit-spreading, spineless, change for change's sake, personality cult ridden lives. I hate forever, because you're always the victim of every damn thing in life. Grow up.

It's just sad, really, because I like my job. I just hate most of the people there. Those of us who don't agree with them can't voice those opinions without getting the "FUCK YOU FASCISTS" type of look from them. Always a conspiracy with you guys.

*Ever heard of the tyranny of the majority?
*Herp derp popular sentiment is always right even if it contradicts the social contract the country is founded on.

Let's see, does this bill have Universal Health Care?
No.

Well it's definitely going to take effect within a year or two since any longer would give the insurance companies too much time to screw over people before the new regulation takes effect?
No, it actually starts in 4 years, but you pay the fines now.

And this bill certainly does not force you to buy products from the private industry or face penalties and/or jail time enforced by the federal government amirite?
Wait, what do you mean it does?

And it covers abortion, one of the key components to reducing generational poverty and crime right?
Right?!

>>8069491
You realize the whole part d 'buy a plan from an insurance company' bullshit you democrats bitched about is the same as the healthcare bills 'buy a plan from an insurance company' bullshit, right? Oh wait, you don't get fined for not having part d.

>>8069908
Medicare part D was twice the cost. It was designed that way and people didn't complain because they weren't billed directly, it was payed with taxes. It is a scam.

>>8069892

The quicker the universal healthcare eventually comes, the better.

Fear not, republifag. The nation won't come crashing down just because poorer and/or unfortunate people get the same chances as your privileged existence got, in which you likely worked for nothing just the same.

The difference is that they'll live much better lives, because they won't be constantly afraid of having to give away their precious money to those disgusting poor and sick people.

>>8069908
And don't get me wrong, part d is some serious bullshit. It's a fucking disaster. Don't forget another thing, the guy that had most of the influence in writing part d, Billy Tauzin, played a big role in your healthcare bill as well.

IT'S A CONSPIRACY, TINFOIL HATS, EVERYWHERE.

>>8069965
>I didn't actually read anything he wrote except republican
herp derp
If you actually read it you would see I'm in favor of UHC and that I'm throughly sick of the democrats going on and on about how they won some "great victory" over an imaginary "angry white male patriarchal society" that wanted to deny heathcare to poor minorities and are represented by the tea-party which is about as big as the communist party, just much more throughly filmed.

For fucks sake they were the ones rightly bitching about astroturfing right up until it served their purpose to then pretend they actually are that big.

>>8069982
Why is it "my" healthcare bill you redneck fuck?

>>8070089
I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHO YOU ARE, GET OUT OF MY MIND, CHARLES

Republicans are inherently greedy. I mean, they're called "conservatives" for a reason.

I know some republicans here who will just outright say that they don't want to pay for other people to be healthy. They don't buy into the death panel bullshit, they just love their money. They don't care about anyone else. It's just their way of life; their mindset. They were born into a comfortable lifestyle, went to good schools thanks to their parents' money, and basically bought their way into their careers. They don't donate to charity, don't want to pay for public assistance programs, and look down on anyone not like them because they feel they're lazy. Even though they never really worked to get where they are themselves.

That old saying "it takes all kinds" is true, because it really makes you feel good to come from a poorer background to see just what a sad existence those people live with all their money.

Oh, and lets not forget that last time something like this happened.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_health_care_plan_of_1993

We got HMO's and things got worse.

>>8070121
>implying liberals with money don't act the same way

All sorts on both sides, bud. Do we ever get tired of stereotyping up in here?

>>8070121

The more you have to lose, the more scared you are of losing it. Applies to wealth, power, etc.

My family was poor as shit when I was little. Medical bills fucking broke us. We lived week to week on my father's paycheck, while still in a mountain of debt. Even now, they're retired, and are still paying on their mortgage from all of that shit. But I wouldn't trade my childhood for anything, because I think I'm a better person for it.

>>8070134

lol wtf? You can thank Richard Nixon for HMOs, not Clinton.

>>8070135
To bad the 'conservatives' had to ruin the name for the fiscal conservatives. They have turned almost completely around from what the fiscal conservatives stood for.

>>8070121
>Republicans are inherently greedy. I mean, they're called "conservatives" for a reason.

I...wat? What is this? I don't even....

Is a man not entitled to the sweat from his brow? Taxation issues are a valid philosophical argument. Why should they have to donate to charity? Is it not their money? If everyone is forced to donate to charity, then it's not charity anymore is it? Then it's extortion.

This is all moot since conservatives donate more to charity then their progressive counterparts.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/conservatives_more_liberal_giv.html

This is not going to give anyone health care that wants it. It is going to force a bunch of people to pay for health care they dont want or need. Obviously troll OP hasnt read the bill.

>>8069223
OP is a trolling faggot

>>8070197
Charity is the most disgusting institution Western capitalism has yet devised.

>>8070181
>>8070135
HMOs where around long before Clinton and long before Nixon. The '73 bill just expanded it into the employer market. The provision that allowed that expired when Clinton was in office.

>>8070121

Idiot. That's the whole point. Why should someone be forced to pay for someone else's healthcare? Freedom includes the freedom to not do something. Retard.

>>8069335
>>8069278

america works finally

>>8070181
They reached new heights under Clinton. Also PPO's and EPO's.

>>8070121
>They were born into a comfortable lifestyle, went to good schools thanks to their parents' money, and basically bought their way into their careers.

This however is true.

>>8070197
>Let me link to my conservative opinion with a conservative-leaning website.

lolk that means it's true

>>8070239
>herp derp
>Syracuse University professor
>http://www.amazon.com/Who-Really-Cares-Compasionate-Conservatism/dp/0465008216

loldismissevidenceasbiased

People who question the need for charity lack a basic moral compass. I'm not surprised to find people like that on 4chan or anything of course. But normal people don't like to see others down on their luck or suffering. It makes them feel good to help a fellow man.

Unfortunately people who are born into money rarely experience what it's like to be in that situation, so they get no satisfaction from charity other than the tax breaks.

I think everyone should come from a poor childhood if they ever expect to fully experience life. Then the rewards for becoming successful are just that much greater.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=wall&ref=nf&gid=335426408861

Nothing but asspained white people

>>8070316
If we really wanted to help people, we would bring about a society in which the concept of poverty is unthinkable.

Charity as it exists presently is simply a means of repressing the terrible symptoms of capitalism. Rather than rush to the assistance of the suffering, we should ask the question "What allows them to suffer like this?"

Any perspicuous enough observer can only see that such suffering is inscribed in the very fabric of capitalism.

>>8070363
> Alexander Ross: Enjoy paying for my wife's abortions.
DOHOHOHOHO

>>8070271
>lol instead of facts let me link to a book written by a self-proclaimed independent who happens to be religious, so he's certainly not conservative-biased

So you're pissed off at republicans that don't know what the Health Care bill is for not knowing what the Health Care bill is?

>>8070396
>book which has been reviewed by independents
>thinks all religious people are conservative
laughingelfman.jpeg

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2682730&page=1

>>8070316
That's quite the statement. Those who feel that compulsory charity is wrong lack a moral compass?

>>8070396
People who claim to be independent are full of shit. They just want to make other people think they're special and that their vote is somehow more important because it could be swayed either way.

In other words, they're either big fat fucking liars and back one party while pretending to be unbiased, or, they're truly mindless zombies who wait until the last minute to make a decision on an issue based on some tidbit they heard on the news.

>>8070448

Who said it was compulsory? The fact that you interpret it that way says a lot about your character. Or lack thereof.

>>8070448
>That's quite the statement. Those who feel that compulsory charity is wrong lack a moral compass?

Dude, you give to charity because you want to. Not because you're compelled to by the government or something.

So yeah, I'd probably say that people who don't want to lack a moral compass.

>>8070466
Asspained I see. Vote straight down the party line for you.
>>8070485
No it doesn't. Whether or not I choose to give *my* wealth is a choice I, and I alone, should be making. Compulsorily giving undermines the entire idea of America. It may be the best choice for reducing suffering among your fellow man, but America was created with certain clear boundaries in it's contract. If you don't like it you can leave for other countries with different contracts or work on the state level to change the situation much like how Massachusetts have with healthcare.

>>8070485
This thread has mainly been directed towards the concept of forced charity. It is an assumption that makes sense in context because that's what we've been talking about.

>>8070529

I hope your greed serves you well, then.

>>8070121
weak troll bro

>>8070611
>Implying controlling my own wealth is greed
hahaohwow.jpeg

I am one of the most generous people my friends have ever met according to them. I regularly give away money and help others out.

The reverse works for slavery.

Just because YOU want to be free doesn't mean WE want you to be free.

OP, you're an ass. The bill is shitty and both parties know it. There should at least be the option to opt out.

>>8070667
>>8070659
cry moar

Liberals think that the lobbyists they always complained about just disappeared when this bill was being made.

Protip: its only going to help the big insurance companies and the big pharmaceutical companies.

For the last time, jackasses, you don't fuck CHOOSE to be sick. So, you cannot shop for fucking healthcare as you shop for an ipod or a fucking video game. Making profit of sickness is as low as it gets for Capitalist sons of a bitch.
Also, you NEED education. Even in the most fucking savage tribes, EVERYBODY learns the activities needed for survival for free. Education shouldn't also be a source of profit. But, leave it to self destructive imbecile to support this evil mode of production.

Saw the word "republican" and stopped reading. Sage.

I don't know about you guys, but I think I'll wait for the bill to actually take effect before I start commenting on how shit or not it is. And don't be like "But by just letting it take effect you could be killing America!" Big fucking deal. Even if I had influence, there's nothing we can do to recall the bill as long as the dems have the majority.