it lets you watch cartoons with no shame for 10 more years or so

I don't know honestly.

I think our modern lifestyle and the ENDOCRINE DISRUPTORS have destroyed or disabled that procreation instinct. I could have a kid, but I would end up ignoring it and playing video games, while it slowly matured into another neglected asshole. Fuck kids.

lots of fun stuff. life really is about life experiences. raising kids is very unique and rewarding.

i really would rather spend lots of money having great kids than expensive cars or a boat. different people have their own priorities.

they aren't little bastards. you're probably someone that just doesn't know what it feels like to help other people. i've volunteered to help people my entire life and by far raising kids for a few decades seems like it could be fun.

2 things:

When enough of the other requirements of having kids fall together, people seem to deem it as the next most logical option and go "Fuck it, lets have some kids, it's what people do".

And then, people just like to fuck, period. The result of that regardless of intention is sometimes the forming of babby.

As a result, TOO MUCH BABBY OH GOD WHAT WHERE DID ALL THESE COME FROM

I used to think I never wanted kids. Now, I just don't want kids until I'm financially stable. It could be kind of fun. I'll get to do silly childish things that would normally be deemed unacceptable by society. However, I'm here on 4chan, so I'll probably never have any. I'm moderately good-looking, though.

we were all babies at one point. just be glad your parents didn't have the same feelings.

Because they don't think, they have nothing else to take out of life and they have nothing to offer life, they are operating on reptilian brain stems, go ask a fucking bird why it wants to make a nest in a tree.

You're not sacrificing your adult life. You're just changing it. There are a lot of experiences to be had with a kid that you couldn't have otherwise.

ITT: mostly "free-thinking" liberals

>>6575423
I personally believe that if you are of above average intelligence, well adjusted, and have a reasonably high paying salary it's almost a fucking duty as a member of the species to raise children of your own. Stop leaving it to the poor and stupid of our kind to do the babymaking, you selfish shithead.

I have the best genes ever. It is my duty to raise at least 2 kids, for humanity!

Why do people do anything? Raising children makes people happy. It's not for everyone, but neither are relationships, or video games, or whatever else you might be into.

Newsflash there is no overpopulation crisis you idiot.

second, you'll find that having children slowly becomes a more viable option when you stop being an edgy 18 year old and make something of yourself, become happy, ect.

I dunno I've always wanted kids.

I'm a guy. I want two kids. Shit would be fun.

>>6575683

You really want people to contribute to the massive over population of the planet?

Sadly because everywhere but china it is seen as your goal in life to procreate as much as you can. Most people can't really give anything else to society, so they create new people, regardless of how ill equipped they are to do so financially, intellectually, or emotionally.

I have no desire to have children. I know I'm far to selfish to make these commitments. I'd love to have a family, that is to say, get married and spend the rest of my days with the woman I love, but I couldn't give up my income and make the massive changes of priorities necessary to be a good father.

>>6575753
see thats what annoys me so much. its an oversimplification of the issue.

The world isnt being overpopulated. it's being overpopulated with tardbabies and poorfags, which have such a developmental disadvantage in terms of safe environment and proper atmosphere that they may as well be tardbabies themselves half the time.


The least among us qualified to have babies (i'm looking at you, Spears. Both of you.) are having babies, whereas the most qualified aren't doing shit to preserve the gene strains that helped make them so successful.

Quality comes with quantity in this case.

>>6575683

Those of us who are smart and well off, often want to enjoy the fruits of our labors of being smart and well off. Yes, it is selfish (well, less so because at least I personally want to share my life with a spouse, friends and family), but I have no desire to make my life all about kids. If your'e doing it right, that is what your life SHOULD become when you become a parent.

That's...odd, i was jsut about to start a thread with basically the same premise except reversed.

I'm totally excited by the idea of having a child, preferably a girl but it doesn't matter that much. Having someone you can pour your love into, to care about more than anything else in the world is really appealing to me.
I often have a slightly weird fantasy where my hypothetical wife dies in a horrible accident and i'm left to bring up our only daughter. We live in a small rural house with a large garden and we do everything together, sort of like Gilmore Girls except with a father instead of a hot mother, also in my fantacy my daugher is like the Gilmore Girls daughter except i don't totally want to bang her, like i would if i ever met Alexis Bledel.

>>6575792
i.e. too many brown and black people, and not enough white people, to put it in a non-PC way. call me a racist, i don't care, because I am one.

>>6575792

i dont think the reason people are successful is because of their genes, that's surely completely retarded isn't it?

People have kids for only a few reasons: they are attention-whores who know that most people go retarded over babies; no one else loves them because they are assholes and they believe kids will give them unconditional love for life; they are selfish and want the kid they have to be burdened by them when they're too old to wipe their own asses; women have children to feel like they're more important than everyone else and to feel justified to act like the total cunts they are claiming they have that right because they are mommies; as a trap thinking the man won't leave if kids exist; to weasel child support out of a man so they can buy expensive toys and junk food for themselves and leave the kid in the dust.

>>6575894
charles darwin would like a word with you.

>>6575869
Hey, you know what, if only the rich and well adjusted had babies there wouldnt even be any need for racism anyway. Because EVEN IF on average darkies are less capable, several generations down the line only the "good" strains of latinos and blacks would be preserved and would be just as capable as any other race.

>>6575931

theres a difference between being sucessful in terms of natural selection and successful in terms of what society deems to be useful

>>6575792

You know, this is why I support enforced "default" sterilization. I'd like to see a physical sterilization procedure honed to the point it was totally reversible. Current vasectomies and tubal ligations aren't, as of yet.

If we got to this point we could basically sterlize everyone by default before high school Then there will be no more "accidents" and people can have the procedure reversed when they wish to have children.

Ideally, there should be a license to procreate. You should be investigated for financial, intellectual, and emotional stability and granted or denied the right to procreate. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this. Everyone can fuck as much as they want without pregnancy, and babies will be born into homes equipped to handle them. I can anticipate a couple of flames

>but its my right to reproduce. Its a biological imperative!
Yes, and you need to shit too, but there are rules and regulations governing when and where you can
>Why do I need a license?
There are licenses to drive and own firearms, because they can have impact on others lives if someone untrained and unprepared is involved with these behavior. Having children is far more wide reaching in its impact.

>>6575894
Thanks, now i have an excuse to do this:
>that helped make them so successful.
>that helped make them
>helped

Luck and circumstance has a lot to do with whether or not a child will develop into a successful human being. But we cant fucking control for that from generation to generation can we? No, all we can do is provide genetic PROBABILITY in favor of the child, as well as the ENVIRONMENT that a rich and well adjusted parent can give.

>>6575931

The same could be said of you. Social success and evolutionary success are two completely different things, in fact it could be argued that all the poor hics and fundies who hurl out babies like they're trying to start their own family orchestra are going to pass on their genetic material to more offspring, meaning their strain will continue on. Compare this to the upper middle class university educated suburbanites who wait until 35 to have a single child, it's easy to tell which strain has the greater advantage.

Well I don't know about you, but my country's population is shrinking. I'm going to have 4-5 kids when I'm older just to help out the motherland.

>>6575931

In human societies, there is far more evidence for environmental factors than there are genetic ones for success.

>>6575907
Sup troll

You doing well?

That's cool. You should leave now, and gb2 /b/

>>6575963
human nature, i.e. genes, are just as much a part of society as society is nature.

~me. circa now.

>>6576001
rusfag detected

>>6575963
protip: in animals natural selection includes aspects of the individual animal that can work to help the species as a whole...

>>6575978

draconian, idiotic and unenforcable

Children are our only chance at anything close to immortality.

>>6576007
Truth hurts, doesn't it. You know all the 'positive' excuses people give for having kids are just bullshit lies covering the selfish truth.

>>6576028

Why? I always hear people yelling about it, but never any logical reasoning.

There are plenty of ways to get most of society to willfully temporarily-sterilize themselves. Hell, most women do this NOW with birth control pills, except they have less effectiveness and more side effects than a nano-vasectomy or hypothetical tubal ligation procedure that would be fully reversible.

Most people will WANT this, and to ensure some of the unmentionables do so as well, you tie it to certain social services? Ie. Welfare. Food stamps. Cash assistance. Medical assistance. All these things not stemming from disability can require that you be non-fertile to get benefits. In addition, if we ever moved to more social services like universal health care and whatnot, it could be a condition thereof.

>>6576026
natural selection doesnt give a fuck about what characteristics help the species as a whole, it's solely concerned with the characteristics that help the organism not die without passing on its genes

>>6575991
my plan is to impregnate a mormon girl with five or more babies. i'm ivy league educated and going through grad school now.

>>6576056
This is stupid. You won't magically gain the consciousness of your children when you die, nor will you ever know what your descendants will accomplish in a hundred years.

>>6576089

your whole plan is based on not letting the people you don't like have babies. if any state introduced this the entire population would backlash massively. even if you did accomplish this, there'd still be shitty people, there'd just be less of them. it's totally retarded.

Everyone has different reasons. I like kids because I think we can improve our world and have a grander perspective. You seem to be a more selfish person and only want to take care of yourself. You probably see kids as parasites and cringe when one cries nearby. In a way, you are very immature. You probably sympathize with the wrong element in the Caylee trial. Son, I am disappoint.

>>6576103
You dont know how to think metaphorically, do you?
Its like how people of the past have gained immortality now because we know their names in the annals of history.
It's legacy.

>>6576096
Chimps are social/pack animals.
An anti-social chimpanzee is going to get his ass killed when he gets abandoned.
Hell by being abandoned it will go into a depression. And chimps have died through depression itself.
Its all tied in.

>>6576151
see willful temporary sterilization mentioned in his post, and the fact that the other ways he mentioned are reversible.

>>6576151
>there'd still be shitty people, there'd just be less of them. it's totally retarded.
Isn't that the point?

>>6576151

You completely missed the point. It wouldn't be forced, but it would be required for a lot of things people want. Kind of like how if you want to get paid by the military, they get to dictate how long you can grow your hair.

In addition, it is reversible and those that pass the investigation will be able to reproduce. Nothing in the investigation will be race based, but instead will be based on financial ability, intellect, and emotional stability as it applies to giving a child a good home and raising them right.

>>6576212
why not just eliminate half the population, it would achieve the same effects

>>6576161

You self-important, snobby douchbag. People can contribute to the "grander perspective" in ways monumentally larger than through reproduction. Want a simple example? A childless Doctor that practices for 30 years will have more positive impact on society than a mcdonalds "chef" with 5 kids.

It's simple, OP.

At around a certain age, people expect that they will have their middle life "on track". Maybe they've graduated from college, and they expect to jump right into their dream career.

When this doesn't happen, their lives feel unfulfilled. How do they compensate? Having a kid, of course. Then they feel like worthwhile members of society. I've you've ever met someone like this, all they really give a shit about is their kids. That's because they really have nothing else going for them in life.

Basically, people have children because it's like proof that they aren't worthless.

Either that or they get knocked up on accident and their religion forbids an abortion, so they just fake everything that I just discussed and it's rather pathetic.

>>6576278

Because that WOULD be draconian.

>>6576265

yes but people should be allowed to fuck their lives up if they want, else this isn't a free society

No idea. Children are horrible and I think less of anyone that has them.

>>6576265

>intellect

you're a fucking elitist scumbag

>>6576319

That's the thing, you're fucking up someone else's life, and possibly wide reaching consequences in society. If you want a totally "free society" go out in the woods somwhere and build your own.However, nuts with guns will probably shoot your ass because of their own paranoia. If you want to be a part of society, you have to contribute to it and live under certain rules (or petition to have them changed). I don't think "be prepared to have kids" is too much to ask due to such a monumentally large impact of your decision.

Good societies that are what most people call "free" (Sweden, for instance) still regulate some important things. This should be one of them.

>>6576297
Nice. I hit a nerve. Sorry, your example still pertains to a selfish endeavour. You are missing the point of my point, though. That may be a McDonald's chef with 5 kids, but its the kids that are important, not the McDonald's chef. What is to say that those 5 kids don't end up as childless doctors with 30 years of practice as well?

They have kids because they are too worthless to do anything else of value. Not that having kids is all that valuable.

>>6576343

Oh what? You mean someone who is not capable of grasping concepts important to raising children should be allowed to? So its perfectly okay that those Appalachian mothers feed their babies nothing but mountain dew from birth, right?

Get real, I'm not saying you have to have a doctorate to reproduce but you do have to demonstrate the intellect necessary to raise a child properly and give them a good start in life.

>>6576313
>>6576330
So you think people that procreate are self-absorbed and are lesser beings...

Extend that to humanity as a whole. Would you rather the entire race die out?

How nihilistic of you.

>>6576376

it implies that there is a correct way to live and there's a right way to be brought up and have kids and that you as an authority have the right to change the way people behave, it's completely stupid. the only motivation i can see from it is you looking at stupid people and thinking "these people are terrible, let's phase them out somehow"

>>6576428
>Would you rather the entire race die out?
The thought doesn't really bother me.

>>6576382

There is an equal chance they will all be fast food workers themselves. In fact, there is probably less of a chance they will become physicians due to the cyclical nature of poverty.

You cannot ascribe value to potential. That doctor is doing good work, and doing it now. That is infinitely more valuable than the possibility that something might possibly kinda sorta if the starts are aligned correctly happen later.

I'm glad OP isn't procreating. I'd hate to see the kinds of children he would rear. Evidently he would think they are leeches of some sort and blame them for making his life harder. I'm pretty sure he already makes his life hard to begin with. Pretty immature person.

>>6576413

i'd rather the appalachian peoples were able to raise their children how they wish without having you intervene and claim that their way of life is wrong and that they must abide by a set of laws organised by the fucking eugenics association of america

>>6576485
>think they are leeches of some sort
Well, aren't they leeches?

>>6576496
You dont think preventing people form suckling babies on mountain dew is a pretty universal standard of doing things?

>>6576428
I would say most people have kids for selfish reasons, far more than just natural instinct.

Because people don't want to be alone when they die.

>>6576500
How long were you a "leech" then...

>>6576439

Oh, I am surprised to see this perspective here. All things are relative, right? I'm sorry, there is not a single "right way" but there is a general "field of right" that a variety of data points can fall inside. However, there are some things that are more right than others. Having children if you can't support yourself financially? Wrong for the children - what kind of start will they have without those resources. Wrong for society - you just brought someone else in we're going to have to pay for . You should not be reproducing if you can't make your bills. You should not be reproducing if you have anger, violence or addiction problems until they are resolved. You should not be reproducing if you are ignorant, willfully or otherwise.

Funny how people put overpopulation as a reason. As if the world is going to thank you or something. Nobody gives a fuck about your selfless sacrifices that don't even make a dent in the problems of the world. Nobody. Cares.

>>6576428
Nobody has kids because they want to see the human race continue or because they want to improve society.

>>6576466
I'd like to see the evidence that they are more likely to end up in the same position as their parent who is working fast food. Everyone I have met in my experience who comes from these 'rungs' of society, whether their parents originate locally or migrated from another country, each has improved more substantially than the position of their parent. Now, they may not ALL be doctors, some may be pharmacists, telemarketers, office jackoffs, etc etc, but they are not working fast food. The important element here is parenting; if the parent desires their children to improve in life and puts forth the effort and guidance to have them improve then they will. If he is like you and blames them for his hard life, then they will end up either the same or worse. I know many people whose parents are considered not intelligent due to the position they are living in life, or the fact they simply aren't intelligent. Those offspring, due to the motivation of their parents, improved their position over their parents. You have such a dichotomous view of children and parenting I'm really glad you are not procreating. Your kids may end up smart, but they may also end up as blights upon our society.

>>6576485
>>6576485
I second this, OP should obviously not procreate

>>6576521

i'm all for telling people how retarded it is, but assuming they won't learn any better and forcing them from having kids because they don't know any better is wrong

>>6576439

Under your reasoning, an "authority" would have no right to tell someone not to fire a gun wildly into a crowd of people, or drive on the wrong side of road, or shit in the middle of a fine restaurant. Nobody has the right to t ell anyone how to behave, right?

Bloody idiotic.

>>6576559
What exactly were you trying to get at with this? Because I was a child I wasn't a parasite?

Having children seems to destroy people's rationality. No thanks.

because of kantianism

/thread

your opinion sucks. and shut up

>>6575423
>Why do people have children?

My sister is on welfare and she's expecting her fourth this month. She's fat and messed up in the head.

So, I would say government handouts and tax credits make it very easy to have kids. Especially for those who honestly don't know any better.

>>6576577

Look to any university that studies poverty. Even all those poverty lobbiest groups and whatnot have tons of data that shows that children born into impoverished surroundings don't usually have the same opportunities of those that don't. They are around more gangs, so more of them join gangs. They are around crappier schools, so more of them have horrid educations or eschew the notion altogether etc.. It is a very well understood issue.

Sure, there will be some who claw their way out of poverty, and in some cases there's upward movement between generations, but these are outliers compared to the environment as a whole. If they weren't, we wouldn't have so many ghettos made up of native populace, would we?

That said, that "motivation" that you describe is good, and a part of the "emotional/temperment" assay I'd prepose under a licensing system. It is very, very important. Sure, less intelligent people can still be good parents, however statistically for the children it isn't as good as if they at least made a certain baseline. Right now these people that you claim are likely making the best of a bad situation, that's good. However, my aim is to prevent or minimize these bad situations as often as possible. It makes things better for the children and for the parents.

Oh yes, I'm a blight on society who wants every single child born into a house they can eat a full, nutritious organic meal every mealtime, have toys and parents that can afford to pay for the best for intellectual and social development, and for every child to have loving parents who make their kids their world and give them the best start possible. Yes, clearly I'm an evil being.

>>6576746
you have no concept of anything

>>6576589
OOTSOCKX BLOKS ORGANAL FURKIN CUNTANT

>i'm all for telling people how retarded it is, but assuming they won't learn any better and forcing them from wielding a rocket launcher because they don't know any better is wrong

Yes, there are some things you need to be prevented from doing because it is fucking dangerous if you don't do it right.

NOOOTBLOX

>>6576601
>>6576560

youre assuming that people can't be trusted and if left alone they'll probably fuck up and do something completely insane and to the detriment of society. while i favour more anarchistic systems of governence aka no systems, it's clear to me that although i wish everyone could get along without people intervening and telling them how retarded they really are, they can't. and people do need to intervene.

just not in the crazy elaborate system that the orignal person i was replying to has constructed.

>>6576746
I'm from a low-income family in a white, suburban neighborhood, filled with corruption, gangs, drugs and a severe lack of education. I haven't been to a doctor in two years. My little brother and sister are intelligent, motivated, well-adjusted kids that contribute to their community. I have more to show than all of my relatives combined, and I have a huge family.

For the most part, ignorance breeds ignorance. Now, most children have access to more knowledge than any generation before them. Once a child becomes self-aware, it's hard for them to not want better.

>>6576746
Yes. Yes you are an evil human being.