You want compensation for black people whose ancestors might have been slaves?

Okay how's about this: These people weren't born in Africa today. Hows that for reparations? Instead of waiting to be raped and given aids or dying of hunger and feeding vultures, black folks get to sit around on welfare and bitch about wanting free health care and how Obama didn't live up to their expectations after all.

>>6528837

this brobot doesn't know what reparations are

Because we white folks just want to pretend it never happened.

>>6528848
I'd say being able to not have to live in Rwanda today is pretty good reparations for my great great grandpa having to pick cotton brosef

>>6528871

so you want to go alternative history? Rwanda could've been a lot different if the african slave trade had not taken place. African empires would've never been stifled and they could've progressed to being something as marvelous as the arab world. Then you could've been living in a stable nation as a full blooded native.

so what?

>>6528926
there were no Empires in Africa when the Europeans arrived brah.

>>6528946

>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Songhai_Empire

HURRRRRR

ITT: Black guy fighting 13year old white kid.

(Oh, and my ancestors had it rough too, but we have this amazing ability to move on and take responsibility for our own life. And now I'm done with this thread.)

How about this: all black Americans get all-expenses paid one-way trips back to the motherland.

>>6528926
hey dipshit, africans were selling africans to europeans to sell around the world as slaves

not america's fault in the least, it went on for centuries before we appeared on the scene

>>6528946

europeans had contact with africans since pre-historic times

>>6528957
Songhai was sacked by Morroccan adventurers in 1593, at which time the Europeans were starting the slave trade, but had nothing to do with said event. The first European who stumbled into Timbuktu was Mungo Park in 1795 or thereabouts.

>>6528985
We're not talking about the time before roughly 1500 AD.

the Native Americans didn't get reparations they got whiskey, smallpox blankets and shitty reservations.

in the 60's thru the 80's (and into today) we're giving the blacks:
- crack rock and heroin
- syphillis blankets
- shitty ghetto projects

they've already gotten their reparations they just don't realize it.

The British introduced slavery to the new world, so if there are any reparations to pay blacks they should be doing it.

Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of white Americans who died trying to free them. How many Brits sacrificed to the cause.

I'm sorry
For something I didn't do
Lynched somebody
But I don't know who
You blame me for slavery
A hundred years before I was born

any sort of reparations to descendants is retarded.
I'm scottish, but I don't go around demanding reparations from england for all the times they fucked scottland over.

"Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin."

this thread is now stupid.

the african slave trade was between europeans and arabs, and the arabs and euros traded the slaves between worlds, africans that were slave trading their own people were the middlemen for the big boys.

>da British introduced slavery to the new world

Cortez had already enslaved the entire south American continent by the time Jamestown was founded

>>6529042

You're Scottish but you can't spell the name of your own country correctly? Don't you mean you're a retarded american who is 1/64th Scottish or something.

I'm white and my ancestors were slaves as well during the Roman Empire.

I demand reparations from Italy.

>>6529074

conquering and slavery aren't the same thing. It WAS England that authorized the transfer of black slaves to the American colonies in hopes of speeding up crop production.

>>6529074
Cortez didn't set foot in South America until near his death in the 1540s.

>>6529118
But the Spanish and Portuguese also started to import blacks in the 16th century because the Indians were too frail to work in gold mines and died off by the ten thousands.

I'm with the posters who state that their family hasn't even lived in the US long enough to have participated. Keep in mind that the actual number of slaveholders back in those days was relatively small, family lines have ended, and so forth, so making people who are nothing more than descendants of people who didn't even own slaves pay for 150 year old slave owning traditions is beyond retarded.

My ancestors were Scandinavian, and they pretty much destroyed anything that came into their paths. Installing Danish Rule in England, sacking Constantinople, discovering America, etc.

Reparations are stupid.

There are no African Americans around today that endured slavery.

There's also no Native Americans around today that endured the genocide of their people.

If reparations are to be made they should be made to someone who actually endured hardship. A good example would be Japanese Americans who were imprisoned during WW2. Thousands of these people had their homes and belongings taken from them and were forced to work in prison camps through out the duration of the war because they were believed to be spies. These people never got their homes, belongings, or jobs back and were decimated after the war. These were AMERICAN citizens that were treated in this manner. There's still some of them around today and if anyone deserves reparations it's them.

>>6529169
Fucking amen. Japanese-American internment camps are one of the biggest "national shames" of America, and should be taken as careful evidence of how ruthless the government can be.

>>6529155
Please explain the colours on that map.

America has already paid it's reparations, we just had different names for it, names like AFFIRMATIVE ACTION and WELFARE. The people trying to get reparations for slavery are just looking for another government handout to waste.

>>6529181

Well how ruthless FDR and his socialist buddies were.

>>6529192

century of colonization, the map including the legend is on wikipedia. I couldn't post original because it was in svg format.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikings

>>6529040
>the british introduced slavery to the new world
is this the same new world that ate humans and made human sacrifices? must have been so happy before we arrived

Indians are more or less responsible for their current predicaments. Many tribes refuse to allow outside interests to develop on their lands, automatically condemning them to instant poverty, even though it would lead to massive entrepreneurial opportunities for them. Lakota tribes have close to a billion dollars in the bank they refuse to touch, holding out for land they'll never receive.

Check out the Seminole Tribes of Florida for a successful tribe. They were the first to exploit their sovereignty for economic purposes and have wound up owning all Hard Rock Cafe's.

>>6529155
>sacking Constantinople

You Scandies always give yourselves too much credit. Well this never happened, and that map lists the achievements of people of dubious ethnic alignments under Vikings, like the Normans and the Rus.

>>6529298

Any Germanic sea faring race that conducted raids during the Viking age are usually considered such. And scholars typically identify the Rus' as Swedish in origin.

mootblocks
>>6529373
>And scholars typically identify the Rus' as Swedish in origin.

How about, you know, Russian? Just like the Normans were French.

>>6529267
>Check out the Seminole Tribes of Florida for a successful tribe

The Seminoles weren't a classic Indian tribe, they were a confederation of Indians fleeing American control on the coast and escaped slaves. You know it, many Seminole were as black as Jesus.

>>6529392
This is my failing. There were no French or Russians in that time.

>>6529392
>Just like the Normans were French.

Idiot/troll.

>>6529460
They spoke the languages of today's Northern France, they professed Christianity, they were feudal lords and thus relied on mounted cavalry charges which were effective in the lowlands of Northern France and Southern England. They were definitely much closer to their neighbours in Anjou than to the Danes from whom they distantly descended.

>>6529397

A number of Indian tribes integrated blacks into their society. Some tribes like the Cherokee owned black slaves because they were gifted to them by White settlers. And it was common practice for decimated tribes to ally with others. Sioux Indians destroyed almost every tribe they came into contact with, forcing survivors to flee and integrate into other tribes to the north and south.

Seminoles did become a single tribe. People seem to think that all Indians were peace loving hippies. In reality many were violent prone cannibals.

Argument for: reparations would be a monetary apology on behalf of the American gov't to the black community for the social damages done by lawfully, though immorally, holding them in bondage for 200+ years.

In other words, IT IS NOT people not involved in slavery begrudgingly handing over a grand or so to their black neighbors (hurr). It would be an official apology for very real damages done, and a humble acknowledgment of the integral role black Americans, against their will, had in supporting a fledgling nation's economy.

Face it, stormfags: America wouldn't be here without us.

>>6529548
Actually it would, and if you look at the crime stats, it would be far safer.

Also, you weren't involved in the urban labor forces that built the major US cities, so dont make massive claims like that.

>>6528926
>African empires

Which ones exactly?

And explain how they were stifled.

Why can't you libfags just accept that human beings are tribal and fight each other for status and scarce resources?

Do you realise how asinine it is to apologize about being better at something every other group of humans does?

It's just as stupid as the concept of the noble savage.

>>6529594

you don't even know what you're replying to you fool

>>6529647
You claimed that Black Americans supported the US' fledgling economy, that is a naked assertion you need to back up. US blacks were involved in low tier agriculture, they weren't involved in any of the processes that gave added value to the cotton they picked for example. Nor were they involved in the developed coastal economies in the same way the irish/italians etc were.

mootlebloxeeaa

if the japanese got reparations for a little discomfort during internment, i dont see why its such a controversial idea that black people get reparations for 300 years of slavery

>>6529548

>Face it, stormfags: America wouldn't be here without us.

And you wouldn't be here without America. Seems like a fair trade to me.

>>6529492
Lingually and geographically closer is about it tbh. They were descended from Vikings and even practised Viking techniques such as slavery, which the French didn't really do.

>>6529594
Haw, no it wouldn't. The southern economy was built on agriculture, which was in turn built on the backs of slaves. Even when the Civil War devastated the South, dozens of ultra-rich landowners pulled through, and used their money to invest over the generations in new ventures that helped build the US economy to what it is today.

The same goes for the north, albeit less so, and with defacto slavery. In addition, the social damages (dehumanization of blacks in order to justify holding a human being in bondage) allowed for a large, easily-employed labor force, with almost no chance of class advancement, to emerge even after the end of slavery (that'd be black people again).

Blacks were the labor that built this country into the economic powerhouse it is. That truth is undeniable. It's not about what any individual did; it's about the group, and making it up to the group.

And I want a citation that says that crimes are committed disproportionately by blacks, when controlling for income. Chances are they played with the statistics, even if you found one.

>>6529708

If reparations were given to blacks today none of the money would go to anyone who actually endured slavery.

Why do you deserve reparations when it was your ancestors that went through the hardship?

>>6529675

the posts you're responding to have nothing to do with what you're talking about

You already have welfare. Fuck off.

>>6529675

This is true, poor European immigrants contributed more to the economy in the long term than blacks did. Irish and Italian immigrants were shipped to New Orleans in the mid-19th century to build the levee systems (yeah I know). The reason builders used immigrants is because they were considered far more expendable and less expensive than slaves would be, workers dropped like flies due to heat and swamp diseases. Work enviroments weren't much better in northern cities either (check out Gangs of New York, highly stylized but still relatively accurate).

>>6529708
>The southern economy was built on agriculture, which was in turn built on the backs of slaves.

Actually no it wasn't. The majority of farmers in the South did not even use slaves because they were the 19th century American equivalent of small tenant farmers. There were some big estates, they contributed a lot in regards to the textile industry, but they weren't everything.

>Blacks were the labor that built this country into the economic powerhouse it is.

Jesus christ, no they weren't, the majority of them are lazy as shit, they weren't part of the major primary or secondary industries such as mining or construction. As I said, the major cities in the US were all built with white labor by and large.

>And I want a citation that says that crimes are committed disproportionately by blacks, when controlling for income.

Here, crime correlates more strongly with race than social indicators.

>Chances are they played with the statistics

Who is 'they', some kind of omnipotent white male entity in the sky?

This is a naked assertion anyway, another one in fact. If you can demonstrate that these Federal/State level statistics have been 'tampered with' then do so. Otherwise, shut those fat lips up.

Chinese by far were the most mistreated ethnic group in American history

>>6529708
Why should Europeans apologize for being better at something the entire human race does? (Competing for scarce resources and gaining status).

>>6529708

I consider myself a liberal, but you need to take an economics class bro; slavery is a huge cockblock to a successful economy. Why do you think Britain was pushing so hard for abolition around the world while it was a hegemony? Because of ethics? Black slavery didnt contribute to the American powerhouse economy, it held it back by several decades or more. Slavery is always bad, in short.

>>6529822

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Chin

Fuckin' slanty eyes stealing our jobs, raping our churches and burning our women.

>>6528814
>I've pondered this for some time. Since the native americans get compensation for having their land taken/massacred,

but native americans DON'T get compensation

thats where this whole argument really breaks down

I just love how whites are supposed to apologize for slavery when virtually every other race has done the same thing without a word about it.

This just goes to show that whites are superior. If they weren't, people wouldn't be making a big deal about the slavery and trying to suppress the superior race.

This thread is a perfect example.

Thanks for reminding me that I'm superior and that no amount of money will ever make you my equal.

>>6529865
Exactly, it inhibits the development of labor saving devices in part.

>>6529765
Because the social impact of slavery is still being felt today. I, personally, attend an HBCU because of financial hardship (instead of an Ivy). While it is true that the economy has affected whites in a similar fashion (having to attend a state school or lib. arts college instead of the good private or Ivy college they were accepted into but could not pay for), the difference is that workplace and hiring discrimination, which has only recently begun to be abated, has held back school alumni, resulting in less alumni donations and a lower standard of education. Just one example.

>>6529928
you're reparations are living in america, the land of opportunity (believe it or not). you could be living in africa where you could get eaten by your fellow tribesman.

>>6529928
>the difference is that workplace and hiring discrimination

Can you prove this with empirical evidence? Blacks score lower on their SATs more than any other race, yet they have the highest acceptance rate to top US colleges. That sounds like the.... opposite of discrimination to me.

>>6529815
>Actually no it wasn't. The majority of farmers in the South did not even use slaves because they were the 19th century American equivalent of small tenant farmers. There were some big estates, they contributed a lot in regards to the textile industry, but they weren't everything.

Exactly. Following the Civil War, the ONLY people left with any amount of wealth were the large plantation and landowners. Again, the wealth they gained off the backs of slaves they invested over the years, and used to build many of the country's larger economic powerhouses. The same could be said for northern businessman, but again, their workers were compensated.

>
Jesus christ, no they weren't, the majority of them are lazy as shit, they weren't part of the major primary or secondary industries such as mining or construction. As I said, the major cities in the US were all built with white labor by and large.

And they were compensated. There are large portions of the modern economy that can be traced back to Southern Old Money, though, and THAT wealth was only possible because of cheap slave labor.

>Here, crime correlates more strongly with race than social indicators.

Cite it.

>>6529977
"the color of crime", my brother. read it.

>>6529912
>>6529840
>>6529815
>>6529675

sure is stormfag ITT

Yeah, where's my reparations from basically all of Europe, where to you think the word Slavic comes from anyway. Oh wait, nevermind, I would never ask for reparations because I'm not a nigger, I work for what I get in life.

>>6529977
bloxbloxblox
>Exactly. Following the Civil War, the ONLY people left with any amount of wealth were the large plantation and landowners. Again, the wealth they gained off the backs of slaves they invested over the years, and used to build many of the country's larger economic powerhouses. The same could be said for northern businessman, but again, their workers were compensated.

And all that wealth was wiped out in the Great Depression. Modern day wealth was built exclusively on the backs of the WW2 generation and the technology boom of the 80s and 90s

>>6529975
Past discrimination. I'm looking at the relatively-commonplace discrimination of the 70s and 80s. Careers rely on momentum, and as the rest of the country is finding out now, if you don't get that momentum started early, you will have a much harder time building a lucrative career. Those blacks graduating from this HBCU in the 60s, 70s, and 80s would be the ones, were it now for the aforementioned discrimination, who would now be in the position to make large donations to their alma mater. But they can't.

>>6528926
Also, african warlords / chieftains sold a lot of their own people into slavery, it wasn't like hunting expeditions went over and caught them, they were sold to us by their own people, read a book for chrissake

>>6529950
I'm going to disagree with you there. Personally, I think black Americans could enjoy a good living in Africa. Thanks to their infusion of white blood (making them more intelligent than a native African) and education (don't laugh, in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king), black Americans (in reality, mulattoes) in Africa could become quite powerful and wealthy. Rather than be at the bottom of the pack, as in the US, they could be close to the top of the African social order along with the other non-natives (admittedly perhaps just behind the Lebanese, Chinese, and white South Africans/ex-Rhodies). Just think of the Creoles in Sierra Leone for an example.

Think about it, guys.

>>6529975
you want evidence of workplace and hiring discrimination?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/23/AR2009112304092.html

>Lower-income white teens were more likely to find work than upper-income black teens, according to the Center for Labor Market Studies at Northeastern University, and even blacks who graduate from college suffer from joblessness at twice the rate of their white peers

>"Black men were less likely to receive a call back or job offer than equally qualified white men," said Devah Pager, a sociology professor at Princeton University, referring to her studies a few years ago of white and black male job applicants in their 20s in Milwaukee and New York. "Black men with a clean record fare no better than white men just released from prison."

>>6529977
>There are large portions of the modern economy that can be traced back to Southern Old Money

Cite it.

>gain, the wealth they gained off the backs of slaves they invested over the years, and used to build many of the country's larger economic powerhouses.

Cite it.

"Minorities, Crime, and Criminal Justice" p66.

They are FBI and State level statistics, as well as from the NCVS, tell me how the state managed to manipuate the NCVS.

>>6530003
He asked you for empirical evidence, not more baseless scapegoating.

How do you explain the fact that Black students from families with incomes of $80,000 to $100,000 score considerably lower on the SAT than White students from families with $20,000 to $30,000 incomes? How do you explain why social class factors, all taken together, only cut the Black-White achievement gap by a third? Culture-only theory cannot predict these facts; often its predictions are opposite to the empirical results.

>>6530002
Haw. No, not really.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Money

None of the families mentioned are Southern Old Money, but several of them date back to far before the Great Depression. In other words, Southern Old Money still exists, and is the basis for the capital on which much of our economy has grown.

>>6530026
your mistaking unqualified for discrimination. they could be putting off a vibe that doesn't sit well with their employers, and holding a job is completely up the individual. if you keep blaming others for the shortcomings of blacks then they will never get ahead in life. sounds like you're the one who doesn't care about them.

>Devah Pager
yawn. another jew pushing the "superior" friendly black man on society.

>>6529975

such as discrimination against Whites and Asians?

>>6530026
That's not evidence of discrimination.

This is exactly what would be expected in a colourblind discrimination-free society. Blacks have lower capabilities so absent any racial favouritism they will have lower employment rates.

>>6530032
you expect all posters on 4chan to cite their information?.... what a newfag