good.owned bitch

Yeah, pretty much this :(

I've been jobless for some time now, there's just nothing out there apart from 10 hour/week jobs that pay minimum 25 miles from my house.

I go to college (focusing on horticulture), but there's just nothing that is really worth doing, any decent job within 10 miles is taken or someone else gets it.

Feels bad, man. :(

Personally I spent seven months looking for work after college in a major American city. I sent our hundreds of applications and resumes and went door to door. I wasn't even picky, I was willing to plunge toilets and bag groceries and time and time again I was told the same thing by picky employers "Sorry, you don't have any relevant experience", which considering my resume, was a lie. I have earned less and less every year since being in college: 2007 I earned $11,000; 2008 I earned $10,000; and this year I am looking at a measly $6,000.
I've lost everything and had to move back into my parent's house after being out for 7 years. I feel like I have no future and all I have is a dead end temp job that will never cover my student loans and offers no advancement.

Here's an article on this very subject.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/09_42/b4151032038302.htm

Anyone else experiencing this? and please no Randriod "BOOTSTRAPS!" bullshit, I've heard enough.

looks like I'll be cutting greens at the golf course my hole life.

>>5802663
but you have a job? is it long term? consistent?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Brp_7XHuS0E

It's never gonna get better, don't look for it, be happy with what you got. :(

>>5802649
Have you considered teaching? Not a dream job, but at least you can make a decent living.

>>5802711
but i have nothing. I'm only eating and clothed because of my parents. This is reversion, it's like I'm ten. This burden is too great for them to handle forever too,

>>5802735

Welcome to the new America, peon.

Get back to the gutter :(

1: Find a store that pays well enough to support you.

2: rob the store, repeatedly......

3: use violence and scare the employees. Terror tactics 100%

4: when workers quit, apply at store.

5: good job, no trouble.

6: need to bail? Take cash. "robbed again"

>>5802649
I have also earned less every year even though I've worked the same amount of hours, and I am graduating next year with a Bachelor's in English. I'm considering law school or teaching abroad. I'm getting a certificate for TEFL next semester in Germany. If I don't get into a good grad or law school right after graduation, I'm moving to Europe (or more likely Asia) to teach English.

Vote for Barry Obama, he'll save us!
The times are shit, and the article explained it, as you have as well. We're inexperienced and low on the totem pole.
You bring up a lot of questions as to what the future holds for the generation - I have no idea. It's pretty shitty, stay close to your family, and hope the economy starts to wind up.

>>5802732
I hate to break it to you, but I am trying to become a teacher. I can't find work. I have all the certifications I need but I have a temp job with the county instead. It offers less than half the salary of a teacher with no benefits and insurance. I am hoping it is a "starter job" to eventually become a teacher but I have no promises. All they are doing is firing teachers due to budget cuts, and only rehiring formerly hired teachers. No new blood.

tl;dr, All I want is a teaching job.

>>5802812
You must have a Masters in Niggernomics.

>>5802846
Have you checked out private schools?

>>5802846
Tried Teach for America?
They take 5k or so of your salary and ship you off to a shit place of the country, but it'd be a job.

>>5802835
try to teach english in Japan. Every other country in asia is weird and a virtual toilet. Don't work for a private company if you can (they include an apartment and everything you need usually but pay less than public schools). If you do want to work for a private company, try AEON but you have better qualifications than that honestly. Good luck, you have opportunity.

Anyone who still thinks that living with your parents automatically makes you a loser is completely out of touch with reality. In this economy, especially being a younger worker, in order to afford rent on an apartment, you'd have to have 3-5 roommates just to cover rent. Michigan sucks, but at least my parents understand that and don't still treat me like a kid. I pay for my own food and clothes, but the most expensive part (Rent) is covered.

>>5802871
All of my "peers" in the same boat as I am in, were fired from private schools. Just saying.

Live in a climate-controlled storage unit.
Rent is only $100 a month!

it'll be interesting to see what this coming generation of parents who in their youth were sold the shallow and tenuous guarantee of american middle-class life after college will tell their children as they grow up

>>5802872
I'll work in a shit-hole as long as I pull a salary $25,000+. I can't do this "working like a cockroach, pay check to pay check" anymore.
I like a quiet boring life and I know shit-hole places have low cost of living so that fist my life style. I'll even teach in the boonies of Alaska if they would pay me.

>>5802928
When I was a little kid, my family was on welfare, and my mom was constantly complaining about how expensive rent was. One day I saw a Public Storage commercial and spent like an hour trying to convince her we should move there. Only $10 for the first month's rent!

>>5802649
>>46% of people 24 and under currently have jobs - the lowest since the labor department has been keeping records

Currently in school, I still want to pursue robotics but the robotics track got pulled at my university. I may have better luck after my bachelors, but still - not good news.

>>5802934
I hope the #1 message will be to not take out excessive student loans or ridiculous mortgages.
Our parents failed horribly on that account.

>>5802928
you're homeless not frugal.

The serious problem is that the working class is killing the educated class for jobs. People who have a great education are being looked over so that Mommies who have no education and need money to support their children are more likely to get accepted. Obama wants the upper classes to declare war on the working class and set forth for a new America.

>>5802947
Look around for info about Teach for America, not interested in it myself though.
They also pay down some of your student loans, if you need that.

>>5802960
Yes indeed. If can't afford it, don't buy it.

>>5802934
that's an interesting point. I want to own a house, but I don't want a mortgage. I loathe credit because of how I grew up. It's completely changed my outlook on life.

>>5802966
Anywhere can be a home if its private and you're not a pussy.

>>5802972
oh word i thought he was a nigger communist socialist who wanted the working class to set war on the upper class

>SEEKING PROGRAMMER WITH 20 YEARS EXPERIENCE IN SOME PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE THAT HAS EXISTED LESS THAN 10 YEARS MUST HAVE A PHD IN COMPUTER SCIENCE MUST BE NICE AND WILLING TO WORK IN A TEAM AND MUST BE WILLING TO WORK LONG HOURS
>pay: $10 an hour

That's why I can't get a damn job.

>>5803014
He's a white alien inside.

>>5802972
I don't know aabout the last part but I have noticed that "soccer moms" now have all of the shit jobs that teens and twenty-somethings used to have. Women who work at Starbucks for example are in their 40s and 50s, and there is always like 5 of them working.

>>5803016
fucking A dude, it's so fucking true.

>>5803002
Its not economically feasible for most people to just "save up" for a house, but i would like to see people put larger down payments on houses.

>>5803016
Lie.

Just. Do. It.

C#? Oh yeah, tons of experience. I did an internship at Microsoft working with a C# development team. I'm the man for the job.

And then ride by the seat of your pants, and program like you're fucking Sid Meier and it's 1988.

>>5803016
Fuckola, that's exactly what I see everyday.

>>5803016
Imagine if you were the guy qualified for the job.
Its terrible that so many PhDs settle for jobs in the 40s-50s.

I would blame this mostly on the generation I grew up with (21 here) being lazy, plus being retarded enough to put up embarrassing photos up on Facebook and other places.

>>5803005
then go ahead and raise a family in a storage unit. we need more carnies, prison laborers and grave diggers in the future anyway.

>>5803069
>plus being retarded enough to put up embarrassing photos up on Facebook and other places

what does that have to do with job availability?

>>5803054
sounds like you have a job and haven't had to look for one in some time. Consider yourself lucky, but the job market isn't what it was when you were looking. Just keep some perspective.

>>5803054
This.

I was just out of college with a computer science degree five years ago. I got a great job because I said I was proficient in LISP, Assembly, C, and Java.

Hint: I was only proficient in Java, knew some C, and had barely even touch LISP or Assembly. I ended up not even needing to know Assembly because the lead programmer on the project did that shit himself, and I taught myself enough LISP to get by at work when I wasn't busy with other shit. Most of those ads aren't written by the guys you'll be programming for, but by the HR department bros. Dazzle them with jargon, get the job, and fake it until you make it.

>>5803080
Companies will search for your name on Facebook and other websites, since people post information about themselves there.
A pic of you at a kegger makes them think twice about hiring you.

I don't know how I'm going to pay off my student loans. I can't get a job for shit.

I'm going to college for linguistics, which I don't think is the most practical thing ever, but it is the only thing interesting enough to me for me to be able to do well. I wouldn't have gone to college if my parents hadn't been all YOU MUST GET AN EJUCASHUN, so, here I am. I figure if everything fails there is the military, which I could tolerate as long as I can have a job that is nowhere near the actual military-ing.

Personally I have pretty simple desires and probably will never be married or have children, so I think that I should probably do well enough to support myself. If it all goes so sour that a single frugal male cannot make enough to support only himself, then we're all dead.

>>5803099
again, but you were looking 5 years ago. That's a seriously different job environment and now you have the key word "experience" so you're ahead of everyone else here.

>>5803091
I'm not saying it's an easy market, I know it's not, but stretch your resume out. If you live in a tech center area, you'll get a job for sure. If not...enjoy your McDonalds job.

This recession has had the same effect on this generation that the Great Depression had on our great-grandparents (possibly grandparents depending on age).

Most of us are going to be much more frugal and live within our means, even living BELOW our means, which isn't a bad thing.

Less credit cards and loans, buying cheaper consumables (generic brand food, batteries, cleaning products, etc.) and slightly more expensive but more durable appliances (vacuum cleaners, washers and dryers, televisions), thinking out purchases instead of impulse buying, and even buying used when possible.

As much bad as this slump is doing, if you look at it from the right angle and learn from it, it will work out in your favor later in life. I know for me, suddenly the american dream of "more is better" has become the opposite for me. "Less is better" and "Better is more" are now the way to be.

Hopefully our generation takes these lessons and runs with them instead of being too jaded to learn anything. If nothing else, I've learned from this.

Less is more, robots.

>>5803128
They need meat on the ground in the military to make up for the dead and crippled. Even if you are educated and specialized, you'll have a gun in your hand and you'll be in the field. It won't be worth it.

>>5802949
>>5802928
Can't do that. If they find out they can evict you.

>>5802649
I know it sucks. The sad truth is that the mainstream media and conservatives are basically shoving these "bootstraps" mentality in your face. The easiest thing that the US Government can do is to create a public jobs program.

In before "socialism"

>>5803155
great, I am learning all of the habits you are talking about but my earning potential is shit and I don't even have a little money to buy generic food much less think about going around and getting some appliances.
I'd love to use my new mind frame towards the rest of my life, but I can't even get started.

We could use a bit of socialism.

Republicans are either greedy corporation appeasing shits who don't care about anyone else, or delusional.

Reality has a liberal bias. When America becomes Jesusland it will be the end of America.

BRING ON THE SOCIALSM. FUCK JESUS WITH THE HAMMER AND SICKLE.

>>5803155

I like you and your typed words.

>>5803155
Tell that to the corporations and Madison avenue. It's business as usual, and they still want you spending.

"Business as usual for the well-off (people who still have well paying jobs), austerity for everyone else."

How to get out of a recession, FDR style: Waste public money on low level jobs for young people.

That's all we have to do. Even if you have a degree in Physics, a job building roads for a decent wage is better than nothing. It boosts the economy, gets people working, and ensures our new workers have jobs.

Does anyone think that since so many people just keep educating themselves as a means to not have to pay their student loans back (yet) we're going to end up turning this generation around? I think that it would make sense that if we're all going to end up getting masters' and phd's (etc. etc.), we're going to be a generation of educated fucks just because this is our place in the modern world.

That goes for the educated half of us. I have a feeling that the rest of this generation will be stuck in the service industry for the rest of their lives.

Thoughts?

>>5803175

Public job option:

A: 10 guys dig a hole in the woods.
B: 5 hours later, 10 guys come to fill up the hole.

BAM!, 20 jobs for Americans, lolololol

>>5803175
I wish they would more more teachers and stop cutting the Department of Education's budget. I'd have a job in a second.

>>5803155

This is true. People don't need as much shit as they think they do. You can get by if you watch your money and don't act foolish. People will be forced to adapt to this mentality weather they like it or not, seeing as all the money in the world is currently ON FIRE.

>>5803204
1. America is already socialist, via corporate socialism.

2. Socialism does not equal communism and it does not equal state capitalism.

3. In my opinion, blue dogs are no different from the republicans.

>>5803214
Exactly. It makes jobs, and stimulates the economy. Obviously, we can make better jobs than that, like fixing old shit, but the idea is the same.

FDR's public job policies and WW2 got us out of the great depression. Both of those boiled down to throwing money down the drain to (primarily) a bunch of young people. Had we thrown all the bombs, tanks, and guns we made for WW2 into the ocean the impact on the economy would have been the same.

>>5803212
look at these statistics. Our generation has been FUCKING ROBBED. The cost of tuition is 10x that 20 years ago. We were born with affordable education and now we can't afford it anywhere.

http://nces.ed.gov/FastFacts/display.asp?id=76

>>5803212
here's the problem with a society of "service workers". It's a putrid downward spiral, a waitress is overworked, underpaid and can't afford to eat out. If everyone lives like that, who gets to buy the services of the servers when everyone is a poor server?

The only way for someone my age (20) to get a job these days is to know someone who knows someone who works somewhere and puts in a good word for you.

And I know about 4 people.
Goddammit.

>>5803264
Which is why we're going to keep going with our educations so we don't have to pay our loans back (yet). It's becoming a trend. I guess the hope is that if we get educated enough we'll be able to find jobs. I don't know if that's actually true.

>>5803202

I'm not saying right now. I'm saying down the road, once you CAN get started. Right now, take whatever shit job you can get, save what you can, and ride the storm out until you can break through the shitty barrier. There will be an end, and it may not be very pretty at first, but eventually it will stop being so bad. It looks glum now, but it will get better. The future is still yet to be written.

>>5803209

Thank you. Hopefully you've taken something away from my wall of text.

>>5803210

I know. And in places where they're capable of that kind of lifestyle, they'll never learn anyway. There are a lot more working class people out there than the Madison Avenue types, but many of the working class people are too dumb to realize they're NOT Madison Avenue types. This is the reason we're in the mess we have now. Taking out a $300,000 mortgage when you can barely afford a $120,000 mortgage, paying for everything with credit cards, focusing on the wants instead of the needs.

The smart ones learn from bad situations, the stupid ones don't.

Hey, don't worry, we'll get jobs when the Baby Boomers start to retire & die off.

Unfortunately, modern society is based around a debt model. Take student loans as an example:

Now, imagine the average white middle class dumbfuck. This person decides to get a college education, wisely having figured out that they will otherwise eat shit till they die. BUT, they aren't the valedictorian, they don't get full ride scholarships... So they go to college on student loans. They only make enough on their McJobs to get them by while studying, but the actual tuition is above what they can make and save. Loans are basically their only choice. So they get out and are saddled with, say, $15-20k of debt. Now, back in the day this was fine --- a college degree was a pretty good sign that you weren't a total dumbfuck and so they would pay you decently, plus college was much cheaper. Now? Let's just say that 30k in 2009 is very different from 30k in 1980.

Now this person gets lucky and gets a good job, pays off their loans, gets married, so they decide they want a house. A small house in their area is around $150k. They make $30k and their husband $40k. What are they gonna do? Mortgage. Debt bomb #2. They want a car? They finance it. Debt #3... I haven't even started on credit cards.

We live in a society running on debt. The escape is either to live very frugally or to have a job that pays you BANK, as in 6 figures. For Average Joe/Jane, they are as chained to debt as a serf was to land.

>>5803303
Obama said exactly that. He expanded the stafford loan program so people can take out more debt while they are unemployed so that can go back to school. I think that's an alright idea, but what's 100 times fucking better is to GET THOSE PEOPLE SOME FUCKING JOBS. He's completely responsible for this "jobless recovery"

>>5803332
A debt society, as you term it, isn't necessarily bad, as long as it's within some reasonable boundary. It's only when it goes out of control that it gets bad, because it forms a bubble and then bad shit happens - and most of that is "high-level" anyway.

>>5803332
That's the thing though, taking out some student loans isn't bad. Getting a mortage isn't bad. A car loan isn't bad. A little bit of credit card debt isn't bad.

It's bad when it's to much. If you make $30,000 a year, don't get a mortage on a $400,000 dollar house and $50,000 car. That's the problem.

>>5803323
The retired "baby boomers" are coming back to work after their reverse mortgages turned out to be a scam. They are taking our entry level jobs and it looks like they are going to die in 30+ years. Maybe we can start killing them off with Obama's death panels. I know they don't exist in reality, but it couldn't hurt.

>
Experts are saying this trend can leave my entire generation struggling for decades to overcome a bad start in life. Our earning potential can be severely shortened preventing us from making big important purchases like homes, cars and investing in having children. One can easily see how this can effect the rest of the economy for decades to come with low earnings coupled with less investment and buying on behalf of this generation.

You know what the Greek kids in this same generation did in response to this shitty situation?

Rioted, set Athens ablaze.

But that'll never happen, because we're fuck-lazy.

>>5803332

I live with my parents, never went to college.

I joined the army full time for 1 year, saved 10k, then quit before they can send me to war 8)

I'm not in debt, I have money in the bank, and I'm free to do what I want everyday. I love my life.

>>5803472
I agree about us being lazy, but how would setting DC on fire solve anything?

>>5803472
that sounds productive, lets burn down what business still runs.

>>5803291
This anon represents another sad truth about finding work. Most jobs are found through networking. About 80%. How to network, you have to (shrug) socialize. And how to socialize in college?

Take a guess

(in before bars and getting drunk.)

>>5803405
>>5803379
Oh, a little debt isn't bad... Until you lose your job, or something happens that costs you most of your savings, or something like that. A "little debt" very quickly turns savage.

A society based on debt is a dumbfuck idea. It works real well until something happens. Guess what? Something happened.

>>5803332

I'm not arguing with you, because you are 100% correct, but just contributing from personal experience.

>Now this person gets lucky and gets a good job, pays off their loans, gets married, so they decide they want a house. A small house in their area is around $150k. They make $30k and their husband $40k. What are they gonna do? Mortgage. Debt bomb #2.

This is always a problem, and one does have to weigh out the value of paying $800 a month for rent or $1200 a month for a mortgage. In general, debt like a mortgage is a safer bet than financing a car. If you can find a house for a decent price, a mortgage wouldn't be a terrible idea. Average home price in my town (Warren, Michigan) is $74,000, and taking out a 30 year fixed mortgage would actually not be too much more than rent for an apartment or home. Not the best place in the world, but it's not half bad either.

>They want a car? They finance it. Debt #3

My grandparents owned one new car between 1960 and 2000, and that was a Chevy Nova they owned for 5 years. Every other car they bought was used, and they paid cash for them then drove them into the ground until they stopped running altogether.

The problem is most people get rid of their vehicles because they "get bored" with the car and want a new one, or it has some stupid minor problems. If you're going to buy a new car, you might as well drive it until the engine won't turn over anymore. People spend the full price of a new car to turn it over like a lease. Get your $20,000 out of it and drive it till it dies.

People are stupid and fueled by want over need, and that creates a credit crisis.

>>5803503
Fuck that, it'll send a fucking message that change needs to happen. It'll show that we're serious. We should do this, I am seriously down as fuck

>>5803490
times ticking, money gets spent, unexpected shit happens. It won't be like that forever.

>>5803536
There's a difference between shitting in your own backyard & moving against a symbol of the system. In that case there were bad consequences but that doesn't mean rioting is necessarily a bad thing.

>>5803509
Well the best way, from what I've heard, is to live on campus. But my parents are already paying out-of-pocket for my whole tuition. And I live literally 10 minutes away from campus by car. I couldn't bring myself to ask them to dish out $600 a month plus food and other necessities just so I can live on campus and "socialize." I don't have the heart to ask them of that. But I've been trying to get a job forever now. Had several interviews but never actually got work. Even tried for shit jobs at fast food restaurants, too. ;-; It's depressing.

>>5802835
>law school

This is a PROFOUNDLY bad idea. I'm in law school now, , at a very good and prestigious law school at that, and the job prospects are the worst they have EVER BEEN for law students.

That means taking on an addition 60-150k in the student loan debt, depending on what school you go to, and being utterly unable to find a job on graduation. The legal industry is completely oversaturated right now with freshly-minted law school graduates (doesn't help that the ABA's allowing more and more law schools to open up because the ABA's full of greedy idiots, the AMA does a much better job of limiting the supply of doctors), and veteran attorneys are being laid off right and left, settling for the jobs that have traditionally gone to graduates.

Same problem in the legal industry as it is for our generation in the rest of the economy. Except in the legal industry, there's a horrendous oversupply of both experienced and inexperienced attorneys.

To wit: DO NOT FUCKING GO TO LAW SCHOOL! If you MUST go to a professional postgrad, go medical or MBA.

>>5803503
Fuck useful, it'll be fun! We're young, dumb, and have very little to lose. Why not?

>>5803535

Something as haphazard as rioting may not be a good idea.

But, some sort of drastic action would be good. Everything is at a standstill, shit is getting worse. We need to stop being so lazy and stand up for ourselves.

LOL @ the pathetic younglings in this thread complaining about the economic downturn that has hit the entire nation, not just their Cheetos munching, stupid, lazy asses.

This country is going down the shitter.

>>5803555
I'll tell ya what.
You get together with your friends, go door to door speaking with the older citizens, and try to convince them of your problems. Do this for months. If shit doesn't get done, I'll consider throwing a brick with ya. But don't make violence your first out. It seems you're taking the easy way out of this, which is to just want to break property.

>>5803555
rioting is always a bad thing. It's a total loss of control and fucks shit up. People were robbing stores and raping women and starting fires during that particular race riot. What does that have to do with MLK? Not a fucking thing. It's a loss of control.

>>5802603
WELCOME TO THE NEW WORLD ORDER

AND YOU CALLED US CONSPIRACY THEORISTS

Actually, banks no longer extend credit now for small businesses. they only want to fund high profit misadventures involving usurious interest rates on debt instruments. they may decide to fund the $2-3 million "small" business, but nobody that is actually going to hire people for the long term. why should they? banks are now unaware of the distinguishing characteristics in investment environments of the regions in which they operate, and the returns aren't so sexy (though maybe that has changed a bit, oh no it hasn't. the gov has free money for the assholes) now with commercial leasing gone to hell it's going to get worse.

the big businesses are all going to the far east and south america. maybe we should do something republicans suggested and give them parting gifts like tax breaks, or just over tax whatever assets they haven't hidden in bermuda (at a $2000 a year tax rate)

>>5802846
teachers tend to be state employed. as the states run out of money (like they have been doing) they look for ways to cut costs. that means fewer teachers. here in MD, there is a hiring freeze for all state jobs. I work retail with a couple of women trying to get teaching jobs, and no one is biting. there have been some guys who wanted to get into the police, same thing.

one of the objectives of the Stimulus package was to get some money into the State's pockets so they can start hiring people again. I heard the money should finally be getting out, by now.

this malaise can't last forever. what happens when the Baby Boomers start retiring? that's a massive bulk of the population getting out of the workforce. Jobs for everyone! and we will need them, unless Barry and Congress have found a way to keep Medicaid and Social Security from going bankrupt, by then

>>5803581
Hummmn. Sounds like MBA-time for me!

>>5803536
Especially in South Korea, with all those protesters in Seoul everyday, they would have channeled those resources into a political party instead of raging against the Combat Police there.

The same channeling can happen in the US, but the instant the establishment realizes that, they'll try to stop it the first chance they get.

>>5803509

And so a key lesson has been learned: get drunk, receive job. I should have picked my university better.

>>5803536
Yes, the grocery store situation is the same in pretty much every major city now because of it (there've been quite a few studies done on the phenomenon), but that's almost entirely a consequence from "white flight" from urban areas after the 60's riots.

Not as easy to pull off against a diverse and disparate generational group that lives everywhere. Not only that, but lost generations such as our own have traditionally played very significant roles in shaping the political environment because educated youth with no hope for the future are very potent political forces. Whether it was the Young Turks in Turkey, the Palestinian insurrection at its peak in the 70's, even the Baby Boomers themselves to a degree (even though most of the shit we're putting up with as a generation is their fault), were all able to effect systemic changes on little more than the power of their generational presence.

>>5803636
What makes you think anyone can retire? We are entering an age of "work until death". Those baby boomers aren't going anywhere, they will work well into their 70s until one day, they just don't get up for work. don't expect those jobs to magically pop up.

Join the military, it's safer than civilian life. 30,000 people die each year from car crashes, but only 4,500 have died in Iraq and Afghanistan the past 8 years.

You get guaranteed food, shelter, and medical benefits, which makes your shitty military pay equivalent to entry level post-college workers.

>>5803687
might want to give some ratio with those deaths. also maybe list the 30k or so soldiers who are now maimed.

>>5803687
>>5803698
Might also want to consider there are a lot more people who drive than there are in the military.

>>5803675
They're all going to be dead in twenty years, the problem solves itself to some extent.

>>5803687
um, the military population is much smaller than the national population. You have a much greater chance of death in the military, especially with active war(S) going on. You must be a military recruiter with a quota to fill. Fuck you.

>>5803719
that would fall into the ratio category, boss

>>5803723
so we just have to be unemployed or under-employed until we are in our 40s? Seriously, fuck that. Ever heard of starvation?

>>5803746
Oh, we're fucked, I'm just saying from a systemic point of view the problem will go away.

>>5803594
>this malaise can't last forever. what happens when the Baby Boomers start retiring? that's a massive bulk of the population getting out of the workforce.

One of the problems in the DC area is that, although the Boomers are hitting retirement age left and right, they're not *actually* retiring from their oh-so-lucrative government jobs because they're still so heavily indebted in mortgages on wildly overpriced houses, they literally cannot afford to retire and will probably work until they die.

>>5803626
>maybe we should do something republicans suggested and give them parting gifts like tax breaks, or just over tax whatever assets they haven't hidden in bermuda (at a $2000 a year tax rate)

Wait...these companies are outsourcing to areas with cheap labor/no worker's rights, driving up unemployment back in the U.S. while driving down wages, and your idea is to *reward* that behavior by giving them tax breaks for staying or tax breaks for not flagrantly ignoring tax laws and parking all their assets offshore (and of course depriving the Treasury of corporate tax revenues, but whatev').

Fraid' I don't get it. Plus, the U.S. has one of the lowest corporate tax rates in the whole damn world (nominally, it's high, but after taking advantage of the many, many deductions available for capital assets/laughably low capital gains tax rate, the actual tax rate is almost lower than the personal income tax rate for most Americans) what more could the corporations POSSIBLY want?!

>>5803754
So in order to save us, we have to be destroyed? Neat-o plan.

>>5803155

Yes sir.

Let's let this economic crash be a lesson to us. What do we have to lose? Look at all the useless shit they're trying to sell us every day. Go to a mall and see how much of it is complete waste. George Carlin was so right it hurts.

Our generation needs to be creative, and collaborate with others (especially older people) who feel the same way, and we need to rebuild the community that decades of empty consumerism and media brainwashing has all but destroyed.

>>5803746
They're our parents. If we can't take care of ourselves, the natural course of events is to fall back under their wing. Therefore, we get a generation of /r9k/ers in their 30s still living in mom's basement. But once she dies, jobs will open up :)

>>5803774
In order to save the village, it was necessary to destroy the village...

Yeah, I mean, there's up times and there's down times. As a generation, we got rogered. It's up to us to deal with that and make what we can of it.

>>5803730
Don't stress dude, these guys are all over the chans. You should see /k/ sometimes, I worry I'm going to be pressganged.

>>5803636

i'm sure the state is going to do more wasteful crap like paying some dmv workers, policemen, teachers, or firemen $100k+benefits. state employees need low salary caps. any idiot can do some of those jobs with the right training and it's not like we have a shortage of them. all the union crap is really bankrupting the country.

>>5803638
>>5803581
Only problem with an MBA is that if you want to get into a program that will actually get you anywhere, you need 3 or 4 years of work experience (in an actual career, not McDonalds).

>>5803785
Okay, i still want a future and I want to live. You're suggesting we employ ourselves by making wooden coffins and bury one another.

>>5803687

I joined the army and it was okay... if I had to do it all over again I would join the air force, not be an infantry

>>5803639
>The same channeling can happen in the US, but the instant the establishment realizes that, they'll try to stop it the first chance they get.

This reminds me of a time back when unions were first being established and discussed. Why not just do what we simply did before?

Because we're all pussies, that's why.

>>5803805
Nah, I'm just quoting that saying because you reminded me of it. My broader point is that there's this problem we're faced with as a generation, it's going to be resolved within the context of the system in 20 years or so, and there's nothing we can really do to change the essentials of the problem besides waiting - and one of the challenges we are faced with as a generation is basically how we are going to deal with that dilemma. It's kind of exciting, in a way - as the saying goes, every problem is an opportunity, and problems like this one have been responsible for massive change & cultural growth. So I'm excited, in a way.

>>5803793
>dmv workers, policemen, teachers, or firemen $100k+benefits.

Excuse me? Where the fuck do you get that shit? State employees get paid under $40,000 then they take out taxes, then they take out health insurance money. It's like a $30,000 a year job. Only top level administrators who live in the state's capital get paid $100,000+ and there is a handful of them. Pay caps? Seriously, fuck you they get shit pay AND they are getting pay cuts. Lots of states are moving to a 4 day a week work schedule to cut back on costs and firing everyone else. You've got to be a 14 year old shit who's never had a job and read waaaay too much Ayn Rand.

>>5803785
And I don't doubt we'll do just this as a generation. I know it's de rigeur to denigrate the younger generations, and our own has taken a lot of shit from our Boomer forebears ("they're lazy, ungrateful, apathetic, only want to play video games", etc). But the fact of the matter is that, despite nearly a century of successive intergenerational improvements in quality of life, education, income, etc., ours will be the first since the Great Depression where we'll be worse off than the generation preceding us.

I don't know about you all, but considering all the shit we've had to deal with, I no longer suffer Boomer criticisms of our generation lightly. *WE'RE* the ones that have to pay off Social Security and Medicaid while knowing full well we won't get them, that have to pay off the ever-increasing national debt irresponsibly amassed to pay for excesses in housing (which we'll be lucky to afford when we start having families), that has to fix a ruined environment, the nation's decaying infrastructure and disastrous education system because the Boomers were too fucking cheap to pay for it, and fight two fucking wars at the same time.

We were fucked, pure and simple, but I don't doubt we'll prove more respectable, responsible generation than the Boomers and that we'll actually give our kids more than our parents and grandparents gave us.

>>5803472

On that note, some food for thought: You know what the Atheneans did thousands of years ago? They elected a guy named Solon to fix their entire city by abolishing the debt of the lower class and giving them a new chance. The city was vitalized and became very prosperous.

This should be a lesson to us. Seems like the greeks didn't forget how bad debt is.

What if this situation was a catalyst for a paradigm shift? What if our generation was the one to overthrow the system as is and recreate government, culture, thought and the general atmosphere of the world because of all of this? Is that so far fetched?

>>5803863
Yeah, this. I agree with you, man. I mean, we're fucking teenagers, what generation was responsible when they were teenagers? Shit, what generation was this responsible when they were teenagers? We got this shit, we got to work hard and we can do it.

>>5803863
>But the fact of the matter is that, despite nearly a century of successive intergenerational improvements in quality of life, education, income, etc., ours will be the first since the Great Depression where we'll be worse off than the generation preceding us.

Yeah, I'm quoting myself, so what?
To reiterate: ours is the first generation IN U.S. HISTORY that has a lower life expectancy and lower lifetime earning potential than the previous generation. First time EVER, and that includes the fucking Great Depression!

>>5803878
to put it simply, YES.

To the guys talking about MBA's. Have you looked at what is going on in business schools this and last year? Application rates are incredibly high as a lot of people who got fired are trying to ride out the recession in school. You need to have at least 4 years experience in a normal office job with increasing responsibility (as in you need to be some sort of assistant manager or at have a position that manages people). People in those positions are not leaving their jobs because they now nothing is available so for those who wont to get into MBA programs it's going to be incredibly difficult because our experience will be bottom of the shit pile work.

Anyways, apparently acceptance rate at top MBA programs is very low this year. And if you don't know much about MBA's it's not really worth getting one from a school without any reputation (the wage increase will not be worth it). Stanford apparently this year had a 6% acceptance rate compared to 12-15% from years past.

>>5803892
>ours is the first generation IN U.S. HISTORY that has a lower life expectancy and lower lifetime earning potential than the previous generation
*[citation needed]

>>5803894
Why is that? See >>5803892

Welcome to real life.
College seemed like it was going to create a dream world for you, but in reality you're going to have to work just as hard as everyone else, all over again.

Oh well.

21 years old here.

I work in retail making just above minimum wage. At least I HAVE a job. Would I say im underemployed for my job? No, though i am in college i have no degree...yet. But i do see the work i am doing as a valuable asset. This job is my first job in retail, and i have almost two years of experience. When i do finish school, or at least get my associates degree, i will have the experience needed to apply for those higher level jobs. To apply for those managerial positions.

too lazy to type anymore nao...o well...this rant will remain unfinished for now.

>>5803210
shit like this is why I rage whenever I see ads for The Hills, or Kourney and Khloe or what the fuck ever. bubble headed bimbos spending money on stupidly expensive shit and starting bullshit businesses like chothing lines. its this glamorous circle jerk of rich people patting themselves on the back for being rich. and they are so STUPID. its not like they deserve any of that money. they got it from daddy. so, why does Bravo and Mtv and E! love those shows so much, when their viewers are struggling to keep the roofs over their heads?

>>5803799
True. And even then, MBA grads really took it in the ass when the recession started. So much so that us law students had the temerity to make fun of them for it when Lehman Bros collapsed and BoA, etc. started laying off thousands.

The thing is that an MBA gives you far, far, far, FAR more options than a law degree. Every business needs managers, not every business needs lawyers.

>>5803921
>get my associates degree, i will have the experience needed to apply for those managerial positions
In what, retail?

>>5803933
>why does Bravo and Mtv and E! love those shows so much, when their viewers are struggling to keep the roofs over their heads?

Those networks don't give a fuck about those shows. It is the viewers that do. As long as a show pulls ratings, it stays on the air, and more shows like it pop up.

>>5803920
You fucking dumbass. We can't find work. We want to work. There is no work. No one is talking about magic free money, that's not the topic you Randriod shit.

I'm 28 with an undergrad degree and 5 years experience in my field. I get passed over for some jobs for people with 0 experience and nice boobs (and a degree).
Of course, at my current job I make more than them, so I guess I can't really complain. Experience is worth a lot, especially if you work in a small field (like mine) where people know your references personally.

>>5803921
20 years old, and I'm now a retail manager and I make more than twice as much as you do.
I'm also in college too.
That's funny how you think you're accomplished, but in reality you don't need a college degree to become a manager.

>>5803687

You're worked like a dog.

r9k is used to nice comfortable lives in the shelter of their parent's basement. Military would probably have them suicidal by day 2

>>5803982
You're a troll and an attention whore. You don't have a job because you are still up on a sunday night. Lies lies lies. Enjoy your basement.

>>5803920

Yeah, those lazy Gen X'ers/Y'ers just don't know the meaning of "hard work", amirite?

*spends up to 300% more in tuition to get an inferior education/job prospects compared their parents*

*works longer hours with less vacation/fewer (if any) benefits than their parents generation*

*FIGHTING TWO FUCKING WARS AT THE SAME GODDAMN TIME WITH A VOLUNTEER MILITARY*

To dismiss it all under that tired old rationalization that "they're just lazy/don't know the meaning of hard work" is fucking laughable. Besides, there's absolutely nothing partisan about how fucked we are.

>>5803933
Because it's a fantasy world in which we would all love to live in, that's why. That's like saying "why do kids play video games and contribute nothing to society as a whole!?"

It's just something to take our minds off the hard times. At the same time, I just laugh it up because I know people are stupid enough to spend money on bullshit things like they do.

>>5803982
believe me i know that. Actually school gets in the way of me getting better positions because i have school in mornings and thats the only time they fo training. Its been screwing me over for a long time now.

Anyone here feel like you aren't fucked? If so, what is your secret?

>>5804042
I'm the one doing the fucking.

>>5803920
Fuck you. We're going to work. We're figuring shit out, though, we're analyzing the situation. Which is, broadly, that you bastards fucked shit up, and we're going to have to work harder than you did just to get back to where you started.

>>5803775

Thank you!

How many things do we buy that are absolutely necessary versus impulse buy shit that we'll break/grow tired of in a month?

I mean, for example (assuming you actually need and will use tools frequently), if you spend $1000 on a set of Craftsman tools with lifetime warranty, versus having to buy a new $150 set of shitty tools every time you go to do a project, you've bought something that is going to serve you well for a long time, and provide you satisfaction every time you use it.

Maybe not the best example, but I think you see where I'm going with it.

Spending a more on an initial purchase can lead to a better experience than having to buy multiple, lesser quality items.

>>5803985

iknowrite

Most robots are soft-handed faggots that haven't and probably won't ever work a truly hard job in their lives. The military doesn't need effete boys in the ranks

>>5804055
Please enlighten me. I don't quite understand, how exactly are you fucking? How can I too get the opportunity to fuck?

>>5804077
Too late. Gays are already admitted.

The only way to win the game is to stop playing

You don't have a job because you got a bullshit degree. How about studying engineering or something useful instead of your liberal english arts women's studies?

What's with this sense of entitlement? I first went into the job market with the attitude that no one is going to provide work for me, if there is a demand for work it will get filled quicker than your mother's stank pussy.

You have to create work for yourself, you have to find a service you can provide for employers and if not then start your own business and if you can't do that there's always demand in the black market. Because even if your idea is not feasible and you make a fool of yourself and fail over and over you learn something everytime and educate yourself about the situation in your particular sphere of the economy making it more likely for you to stumble across something economically productive to do.

(Figured I'd name-fag myself just this once)

>>5803687
I lucked out because I did my time in the military. granted, my mental and physical health suffered quite a bit, but I *was* able to get a good job as a result.

Plus, the two services where you're less likely to get your ass blown off by an IED (Air Force and Navy) are undergoing the most severe reductions in size since the Cold War ended, yay!

>>5804075
craftsman are shit snap on all the way but your point is good dad bought a set of milwakee power tools in the 80's still uses them shits daily

>>5804117
I'm so glad the Republican laissez-faire capitalists are here to tell us we're lazy. Because their economic policies & theories have so consistently been proven correct, and they know so fucking much.

>>5804117
Most of us don't have the money to start our own businesses and/or haven't received our degrees yet.

>>5804110
If you havn't noticed, the wages for engineers have dropped as well and you have to work 12 hour days when you start your career. Enjoy your gray hair by the time you are 30.

>>5804117
10%+ national unemployment and a credit freeze =/= "failure to wear long enough bootstraps". That's what us laymen would call "a systemic problem", and what economist would call "a great big fucking recession the likes of which we haven't seen since 1929".

Kinda' hard to get your brilliant start-up off the ground when you can't get start-up capital to begin with, or can't even get a job to save money for your brilliant start-up, much less sock your savings away in some vehicle that's actually outperforming inflation so you're not literally losing money before you even earn it.

>>5804120
Are you a lawyer, or a gentleman without a knighthood?

>>5804117
START MY OWN BUSINESS? IT'S SO SIMPLE! I JUST GO TO THE FUCKING MONEY TREE!

Collegefag reporting in

Facing some pretty difficult times ahead. Currently riding on financial aid to pay for my undergrand work at CC but once I move to university I'll have some debt. I'll graduate with an animal science BS and be able to work in the animal health field.

Sad thing is, it'll probably take me around six years to finish a bachelors T.T, and if I'm lucky I'll be making 30-35k a year max.

ITT: the 16 to 24 year old user base of /r9k/ goes through its first recession

Holy shit, this thread depresses me. Are things really that bad in the States?

I'm in Canada and things do seem to be kind of shitty right now, but not as bad as you guys seem to be doing.

>>5804131

Are you saying that repealling Glass-Steagall wasn't the greatest idea ever? Or didn't you notice how well "trickle down" has been working despite nearly 20 years of wage stagnation?

>>5804200
So, tell me, mr. oldfag, what recessions have you been through that were so similar to this one? and what advice do you have? Were you around for the great depression, or what?

>>5804042
I feel less than fucked, dispite being 30 and living with my parents. I have been working retail for a while, now. since the Tech market crashed in 01, so I am pulling in a decent amount. I have a pretty good writing talent, and all that tech experience. I am trying to get into technical writing. if that doesn't work out, I am working on a novel. I would like to hook up with someone and do a webcomic, or something creative to try and pull in some money that way. I have options, shitty options, but still options

>>5804180
I think he means getting into drug dealing because we're supposed to do anything for money like cockroaches and be willing to spend the rest of our lives in jail to earn a little money today.

>>5804180
>"a systemic problem"
EXACTLY. That's why I don't think it's too crazy to think that our generation might light the fires which will burn down the existing establishment and build a new, better functioning, society. The systems of government and thought that we have are hundreds of years old. It's time for a new enlightenment, motherfuckers, and we're at the cusp.

raging torrents of frothy mootblocking cum...

>>5804181
>Are you a lawyer, or a gentleman without a knighthood?

Law student, hence the "Esquire". I'm this guy:

>>5803581
>This is a PROFOUNDLY bad idea. I'm in law school now, , at a very good and prestigious law school at that, and the job prospects are the worst they have EVER BEEN for law students.

>>5804205

Things aren't that bad.

The reason America owns the entire world is because were fucking proactive. We freak out when shit goes wrong, and we deal with it.

America, fuck yeah.

>>5804205
Canada should be better off. You have healthcare, better labor regulations and protections and actual industries and exportable goods. The US thinks they can have a society based on a dozen or so super rich people and the rest of us have to get jobs being waiters and waitresses to pay off our debt from trying to become lawyers and engineers.

>>5804233
You are on the right track, but it is unlikely to be a destructive revolution or populist uprising. Basically, legislators, economists, lawyers, and bankers are all trying to figure out exactly what went wrong, and will rewrite laws and reshape institutions to function more reliably in the future.

>>5804223
Stop, you're making me look into your life and I want to kill myself.

>>5804270
They will reshape institutions to fuck us over in a smooth and lucrative manner. I mean, there's not going to be anything this bad, but it's not liking the new system they create is going to be good for the common man.

>>5804270
So there's no chance of a complete turn-around? Are those in power just too powerful? Our system of government sucks. All of them do. There has to be a better way, and I'm sure one of the super-educated members of our generation will be able to figure it out.

>>5804260
Doesn't hurt that getting a higher education in Canada won't land you in debt for the rest of your life before you've even had you first job, either.

>>5804233
You are forgetting "entropy" and you have too high of an opinion on humanity in general.

>>5804233
when I hear about CEOs making $24M a year,
Socialism sounds pretty sweet. I mean, if you pulled in $50K a year (a pretty nice job) it would take you 20 years to earn a million. what the fuck does any fag need with $24M A YEAR. as in MORE THAN JUST ONE YEAR. and while they are raping the company's payroll, how much easier would the lives of their peons be if they forwent a couple million, and padded the wages of the lowest paid 10%?

>>5804205
US un/under-employment has hit about 16%. The Bureau of Labor Statistics claims about 10%, but they're fucking fudging the data by redefining unemployment. Take a look at http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf and scroll down to table A-12 on page 20.

Of course, I suspect 4chan isn't a very accurate representative sample of the general population.

>>5804296
I haven't lost hope.

>>5804270
unless they get bribed (lobbied) not to.

>>5804291
It's called socialism. It works. Americans are too stupid to accept this fact.

Thank god I live in washington state

at least we have big ass corporations that started here that are making sure we don't get wiped out as fast.

>>5804291
>Are those in power just too powerful?
Maybe.

But a complete turn around is unlikely not for that reason, but mostly because those who study government, public policy, economics, and law typically end up favoring reforming existing institutions and mechanisms rather than starting from scratch. Reinventing the wheel is costly, with no guaranteed results.

Fucking lolz! Wish I had your optimisn, but here', lemme fix this for ya'

>>5804270
>Basically, legislators, economists, lawyers, and bankers are all trying to figure out exactly what went wrong, and will rewrite laws and reshape institutions to function more reliably in the future. - Anonymous, paraphrasing Franklin Delano Roosevelt, c. 1932

>>5804291
there is a way. this a democracy. Obama got 53% of the vote, stomping McCain by a 6 point spread. people can get excited and move in mass numbers.

Anon needs to pay attention to his state government and to his congressmen. the ones that are in the pocket of big business, fuck them. vote the fuckers out. there is no difference between you and your government. you ARE your government. your taxes pay the salaries of the people you elect to do the jobs you want done. if they don't listen to you, they need to be in the unemployment line, right there with you

>>5804315
then you're a dumb-fuck sap.

>>5804344
>Obama got 53% of the vote, stomping McCain by a 6 point spread. people can get excited and move in mass numbers.
>stomping
>6 point spread
>mass numbers

Right. You have more optimism than anyone itt, including >>5804315 . Sorry, not optimism, blind fanaticism. The American democratic process is a farce.

>>5804377
excellent, if he crashes hard, he'll kill himself and bring SOME pressure off of the job market.

>>5804377
agreed

Who counts the votes?

Someone contracted by the government. So basically, we elect someone to hire someone to decide if they'll be succeeded and if so, who will succeed them.

The solution to the job markets problem is simple. Concentrate those that are old and taking up valuable job positions and baby boomers(they'll be holding onto their jobs for dear life keeping us from getting them) into camps and exterminate them. Say goodbye to mommy and daddy, grandma and grandpa, 'cause they've got to go. Once they're out of the way there will be jobs for us.

Those in power want you to believe the general public is too apathetic to mobilize.

In the Revolutionary War, only 15% of the colonists capable of fighting did.

>>5804333
Well, the thing is, he did reshape them in a way that really did until 50 or 60 years later the political-economic establishment basically decided to tear all that shit down because it was more lucrative if we got rid of those protections. Almost as a direct result of this, we are where we are today. So we can reshape our institutions in a way that works, but we cannot ensure that posterity will keep the system.

>>5802603
India is taking our jobs. Indians work for less than half of American pay.

It's called Wage Arbitrage. Remember that, you'll be hearing more and more of it.

Any job that requires a PC will be easily done by an Indian in Bombay.

India isn't creating their own jobs, they are simply stealing ours.

>>5804394
I wouldn't go that far. That's calling out-right fraud and I don't believe they do that.
However, what they actually do instead is handpick people that you vote for, on your behalf. They are open about this, it's called a "primary" and then an election. They tell people that's a "democracy" and "choice". Bitch about that, it's more valid and it doesn't make you seem like a paranoid jackass.

Thats funny because I just got a co-op job offer in my second year of university for 31.97 an hour (slightly more than 65k a year). Maybe people just don't want to hire drugged out hipsters with liberal arts degrees.

suck my dick futureless fags

>>5804400
I want to live. I'm not being wasted in any angry mob's war, whether that mob is the government or the people.

>>5804416
>India isn't creating their own jobs, they are simply stealing ours.

Unless your industry employs or creates a new technology, the two really are the same thing... labor markets are competitive.

Fortunately, the US is one of the best at creating and employing new technology.

>>5804042

Learn how to Weld. High demand job, good pay.

>>5804416
INDIA TOOK OUR JERBS
FUKIN MEXICANS
WE SHOULD GO TO MEXICO AND BURN DOWN INDIA!

>>5804436
The government is impeding your right to live. You have the right to rebel and overthrow it. It's in the Constitution.

>>5804131
You're welcome. It's refreshing to come across people who are willing to blame themselves.
>>5804134
Most self-employed people never went to university.
>>5804180
You are the capital investment, you're the end product of the state and yourself investing $10000s in education over years. If you can't pro-actively find something useful to offer to employers then it's obvious the "systemic failure" has nothing to do with the free market.
>>5804184
Producing and selling certain commodities tax-free like alcohol doesn't require much capital investment. Neither does a hot dog stand or collecting cans for that matter, but I suppose you believe that's below you what with your 4 year mexico studies degree.

>>5804420
then you buy more than you can actually afford, or get a drug habit going. You're "fuck you, I've got mine" attitude is poison in so many other ways. Enjoy your unmet goals and future hardship forever.

>>5804453
Might I ask exactly how the government is impeding my right to live?

>>5804453
seriously, fuck you. I'd kill a revolutionary the same way I'd kill an aggressive solider. I won't buy into your power grabbing bullshit, I'd rather die on my own terms and ideals.

>>5804453
You have the right to evade tax if you can get away with it but not overthrow the government since that would result in a net-deduction in freedom. It is better to make campaign contributions to favored parties and fund lobbying.

>>5804420
Oh, I see...haughty engineering/science major, are you? Ask you predecessors how much more immune they were to recessions than the "long haired hippie liberal arts majors" back when the tech bubble burst.

Then ask them if there's any reason whatsoever, especially in the midst of a credit freeze, to suppose it can't possibly happen again.

>>5804459
By not providing conditions under which it is easier to live a good life. You have to struggle and work yourself to death to earn a decent wage and make a decent living (imagine trying to get a car or a house or an education without being in ridiculous debt). This is all bullshit.

>>5804474
The ideals in that post are in both of our best interests, you're just too stupid to realize it.

>>5804476
That's a really badly drawn conception of rights & law, hth

>>5804486
Since he didn't even state what he got it in he's probably full of shit and just trolling, like 1/3 of the thread.

>>5804455
so I can support a family by collecting cans and selling hot dogs? Great! I'll become a jack of all trades. I'll make shoe laces and design carnival rides, and own a pig farm on the side! It so easy! The whole world is my own money tree and all I need is my BOOT STRAPS! Jesus, it's so easy! It just rains from the sky and Ayn Rand talks to me in my sleep!

The way I see it, the sinking U.S. economy and dollar will put us at a level below countries we compete with for manufacturing jobs (or who we've sent our manufacturing jobs to) which will mean those manufacturing jobs will be created/returned here because companies are going to want to take advantage of the low cost of labor and cheap cost of export. So the sooner the U.S. economy tanks the sooner we can pick ourselves up and start new.

>>5804494
What if that is simply the result of the economic phenomenon of scarcity or one does not accept the premise that further government action can actually make things better?

>>5804513
pig farm is serious business. you should consider it.

>>5804508
I hope your Che Guevara T-shirt catches fire and his face burns into your charred flesh. Die of infection in the midst of your "revolution". Remember, it's for the greater good so die soon, quickly and often.

>>5804416
you make it sound much more severe than it actually is
Every single company has a software/tech division, companies that aren't inherently software based outsource those divisions because it is cheaper than creating their own. Larger companies that are extremely tech based will outsource divisions of their companies (such as call centers) to India because it saves money, and because their skilled labor in those divisions could be put to better use elsewhere.

University graduates with computer engineering or computer science degrees don't need to worry because those skills are in demand more than ever. If the tech industry wasn't booming big companies wouldn't be saving money by outsourcing those unskilled labor divisions to India.

tl;dr People who actually did something worthwhile in university are better off now in the job market than ever before, while people with shit work ethic, crappy degrees, and who add nothing of value to a company are paying the price for their shitty decisions.

tl;dr for tl;dr
Spoiled kids get a reality check. Tech industry is booming.

>>5804522
Go to bed Milton Friedman, you're supposed to be dead and in hell.

>>5804522
The systems that we have in place are failing. When they fail, the corrective action that most people see as 'right' to take is adding more to the system. Add an amendment, add a law, add a bill, add a czar, add a bureau. Fuck that. We need a complete overhaul of our governmental systems. They are the brainchildren of men who lived centuries ago. Science and technology have evolved since then. People have become more educated in more specialized areas. There is more knowledge at this moment than there has ever been on Earth at any point in history AND YET you still suggest that we should augment this failing system? Fuck that.

>>5804546
Not all violent revolutions are communist, not all violent revolutions are unjustified, and your sort of "I'm doing okay and I would rather stay exactly where I am instead of doing anything at all" mindset is exactly the sort of small-minded, I got mine bullshit that causes most of the bad shit in the world.

>>5804516

As negative as that is, that's a good point.

>>5804562
I lol'd. Very nice. Would read again.

>>5804556
>Tech industry is booming.

for now. You can come beg for food from the farmers someday.

fuck em, it will be all the old people who are retired, going into retirement age that suffer. no one will have jobs, so no taxes for those pensions and elderly care. everyone gets fucked. enjoy.

i don't want a job or a life. i want to live on an island or in the woods and just work on my garden or practice instruments or paint

>>5804456
I failed my last year of highschool because of my drug habit and I overcame all that shit to get where I am now. I don't have any sympathy for people who can't do what I did because it isn't hard. All it requires is that you stop being a lazy little bitch and fix your problems rather than finding excuses and avoiding them.

>>5804564
This is very true. Keep in mind that the US federal government was DESIGNED to be inefficient.

>>5804597
Shit yeah, boostraps bitches. Bootstraps Bootstraps Bootstraps Bootstraps Bootstraps Bootstraps Bootstraps Bootstraps Bootstraps Bootstraps Bootstraps Bootstraps Bootstraps Bootstraps Bootstraps Bootstraps Bootstraps Bootstraps Bootstraps Bootstraps Bootstraps Bootstraps Bootstraps Bootstraps Bootstraps Bootstraps Bootstraps

>>5804455
Surprisingly, it's not that unusual to find a self-professed "capitalist" with such a poor understand of economics, so I'll spell things out for you:

10% unemployment, if not higher in some states. Up to 20% underemployment. Credit freeze, mass layoffs, unemployment rolls bankrupting state budgets, etc.

So, if you're so full of the free market spirit and have the solution for a doleful generation of un/underemplyed, I'd love to hear your suggestions for recent college graduates to obtain gainful employment in the midst of the worst recession in 20 years. Because apparently there are 30 million+ people in this country who simply don't know how to market themselves as well as the precious little snowflake young capital investments they truly are in the midst of this nurgatory recession.

>Producing and selling certain commodities tax-free like alcohol doesn't require much capital investment. Neither does a hot dog stand or collecting cans for that matter, but I suppose you believe that's below you what with your 4 year mexico studies degree.

Says someone who's clearly never applied for a vendors permit/paid business taxes/leased commercial property in their life (fucking lolz @ "low capital investment required to sell booze"), but somehow notwithstanding knows the in's and out's of the food service industry.

Seriously, alcohol as a "tax-free commodity"? My inclination is to just completely ignore you for that, as it immediately suggests that you haven't even the slightest, barest, infinitesimally slight clue what you're talking about. But I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume a typo or some temporary lapse in posting judgment.

>>5804597
see? I nailed your shit personality type. You WILL relapse when you can't make sense of your world because something our of your control happened. Like getting laid off and not being able to find work.
>Don't stress. Things will get better. Here, have some blow.

>>5804619
Oh and I hope you cry when you push down that needle or chew that first pill.

it's not about rioting, it's not about getting the government to create jobs for you. it's about identifying what you need and figuring out ways to get that.

you need food, you need shelter, you need company.

in the end, when it starts to get really bad, it's not a riot you want, it's some kind of farming collective. it's not government jobs you need, but family and friends.

I, for one, just graduated in June, I've moved in with my family and I'm really starting to realize that what some robots in here have said is very true. Simplicity is key. Identify what it is you need to be happy, and refine that. Everything else gets tossed.

This has led to me realizing that I don't need to go to the movies or have a sweet car to be happy. I just need to get together with my friends, cook some cheap food and laugh together. Nor do I need to move out (I would like to though) what I really need is to learn how to get along with my parents.

Strangely, graduating into the worst economy since the 30s somehow made me stop smoking and start excersizing becaue I realized that if things keep going the way they're going, well, I won't be able to afford medical bills.

It's a strange time. But when things start to get really miserable... that's when the crazy shit starts to happen. The shit they make movies about when they glamorize it 20 years later.

How do we archive this thread?

this is what happen when you voted for socialism. I
majored in computer engineering and is now having a six figure job

>>5804636
Self-righteous recovered addicts are the worst, not just because they're annoying to everyone else by lording over their "ability" to overcome what amounts to a self-created problem, but because when (not if) they do relapse, the shattering of all that self-righteousness creates such profound cognitive dissonance that their relapses become even worse. jsia.

>>5804606
In Savannah, Georgia you needed a $5,000 city liquor license, a $1,000 state liquor license and businesses weren't allowed to sell alcohol on Sunday, unless they were a bar then they had to serve food on Sundays. Tax free? My ass, even in a white-trash-ass "Red State"

I started my own business and it was expensive and never worked out. I did everything on my end perfectly, but it was major national businesses that took my money, didn't provide services and canceled my account knowing I didn't have the time, money or energy to sue. This child knows nothing about the reality of starting a business.

>>5804486
>>5804512
I'm computer science and I got in as a systems security analyst for an insurance company. The sole reason jobs are in the field are paying so high is because when the "dot com" bubble burst enrollment in computer science dropped by roughly 10-25% every year since. (Because all the other idiots think just liek u)

The only reason for that bubble in the first place was because dumbfuck "entrepreneurs" thought they could make a million just by setting up a website. Way too much came way too fast and when things didn't turn out the way people expected them to they thought it was going nowhere. That obviously wasn't the case and it has been a steep climb upwards every day after that. The industry requires lots of bright new minds to continue steady innovation and they are willing to pay to get that. Look at the iphone, hire some developers and some engineers and that is all it takes. Its not an industry like oil where you "require" engineers but the wells are where the money is. In software the money is in the creativity and ingenuity of your employees.

Of course your average dumbass has a hard time thinking this deep about career choices and would rather just hop on the "DO WUT U LOEV" bandwagon than have to use his/her brain. Or blame india for their personal failures.

>>5804667
http://4chanarchive.org/
Click request interface, fill out the informacion and click submit.

>>5804685
That's exactly what I'm saying. This arrogant asshole is just a junkie and he's stuck up because he's insecure.
I hope he's itching from reading this.
>>5804597
Go for a drive mother fucker, you know who has the good stuff. I bet you see them when you walk around or drive in your car. You know who's holding, go pay them a fucking visit. Just a taste, you can over come it. Bootstraps, remember?

>>5804669
Pic related. Lookie it's me!

if you don't study computer science you are fucked for life

>>5804774
unless there is an energy crisis or s dramatic shift in technology then you're kind will have no skills of value.

>>5804721
im not a junkie at all, my drug problem was strictly weed and alcohol with a steady mix of procrastination.

I'm sorry I made you mad though. People who's lives suck bad aren't helped by my antagonizing.

>>5804789

keep dreaming while your flipping burgers with you lib art degree

How to succeed in this economy?

1. Major in engineering or computer science
2. Learn a second language to fluency
3. Get a job coordinating the outsourcing of your peers
4. Enjoy your stable, well paying job

>>5804794
Don't apologize to me. I don't need it. Just use as soon as possible. I live everyday knowing everyone is going to die. That's my Anti-drug.

This thread makes me happy for one reason:
I now know I'm not the only one who think's our generation got thrown into the shitter by the Baby Boomers.

It's good to not feel alone.
Just so you guys know, if ever we come up with something to actually fix this mess(revolution and/or other ideas), I'm down. I'm ready to go whenever the word is given.

>>5804833
there is no solution and that is the solution. Embrace entropy.

why should you folks blame the system for making a dumb choices in what you major in? you have no one to blame but yourself

Ahh, so anon has found the one true, recession-proof career field, amirite?

>>5804715
>The industry requires lots of bright new minds to continue steady innovation and they are willing to pay to get that.

Yes, this has never been said about the industry before, ever. Also:

>>5804774
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/021309-outsourcing.html

>Companies flocked to IT outsourcing vendors as the recession unfolded last year and industry watchers expect more of the same as companies seek to slash fixed costs and deliver services with smaller staffs.

>>5804816
I'm on my final year of a Mechanical Engineering B.S and speak English and Chinese fluently, along with some elementary Japanese. Yet I'm still pretty worried about my outlook because I haven't really had any significant employment aside from a summer job I had coding stuff.

so anons who think they have the answer, answer me this.

What advice do you have for a fellow anon about to graduate with a near-useless degree stuck in a shitty job that pays around $8/hr? Besides some crazy innovation, how do i correct my situation?

>>5804872

switch to engineering or computer science

Huh. I guess I'll just hang myself then, save time and money.

>>5804838
Eat shit Randroid. I'm not going to invent some bullshit market repurposing the markers that went up camwhore cumdumpsters asses because "DER GOLD IN DEM SHARPIES!"
This isn't about entitlement. This is about some shit way someone set up the game far before I was born and now I have nothing to deal. Stop with the bootstraps bullshit. You don't think I've tried? I tried to start two businesses, I moved to three different cities. I applied to go back to school (no money to afford it and my lack of finding jobs has me scared shitless to make more debt) and I applied to hundreds and hundreds of different jobs city-wide to nation-wide. I've been to countless interviews and kissed lots of ass, FUCK I've even made one whole office banana bread to try to seal the deal on a job, and they decided not to fill the position in the end to save a little money. I've been there, I've tried it and you know what randriod? REALITY IS A FUCKING BITCH, so don't lecture me about how I can just "diversify" and try stupid bullshit, because I have a shit-ton experience over you on that. Kill yourself.

I mean, it's really weird how these IT/Comp Science/Engineering types are trying to turn a thread about the recession/generational crisis into a degree circle-jerk, and despite all their education in math, don't seem to grasp that fundamental of economics that a RECESSION ultimately means reduced consumption of everything, including IT services.

It's not exactly something to go around "cheerleading" in order to wave around your e-peen and validate one's degree plan.

>>5804904
that fucking pussy deleted his post. I hope he dies.

I have a possibly related question to all of this. What did people do for work before the stock market and outsourcing? Were the majority of people farmers, merchants, blacksmiths, sailors or what?

It seemed to work back then somewhat so I'm wondering what happened.

>>5804912
They also don't realize that there is something about an "industry" that is new, that it may not have a long shelf-life in the grand scheme of things.

>>5802603
Ever noticed that this isn't an old people taking jobs problem?
The unemployed youth is due to a lack of confidence and encouragement to work. They all see themselves as being better than any realistic job opportunity and so they don't apply. Those who do apply for jobs usually aim too high or failed to pick up any relevant skills/knowledge in that field during their education (be it high school or university).

TLDR Young people are delusional and don't know how to plan ahead.

>>5804950
Way back when, the majority of people would be peasants and in trades related to supporting peasants (smithing, coopering, etc). What happened was farming got much more efficient and a smaller amount of people could grow the same amount of food as before, so you needed fewer farmers. They went off and got jobs doing whatever.

That is the woefully incomplete and simple answer.

>>5804950
lower consumption+ lower income= lower amount of workers.

Further, this thread is about young adults who are just coming onto the work scene. They have never worked before, they are just starting off in life and there is nothing here waiting for them.

tl;dr, brand new workers, and no work for them.

>>5804964
>>5804964
Oh! It's so simple! Recession Over!

>>5804042

Right now I don't feel like I'm fucked. Here's why:

I'm Canadian
I'm getting an applied master's degree in information science
This means I know how to find shit people need
I also know how to fix computers. You can't fly your computer to an Indian for that. (yet)
I have a few solid years in IT, and experience counts.
I'm less than 25 grand in debt

This thread is awesome. Please archive this shit.

mootbloxxx

>>5804867
you seem like you just aren't intelligent enough to understand. I will explain it to you in your retard language.

Company makes Software
Software sells lots of copies
Company makes lots of money
Software needs tech support
If developers who make software do tech support they can't make new software to sell copies to make money.
Tech support is turned into unskilled labor job.
Unskilled labor is cheaper in India.

Do you see how that works? Outsourcing is just a way for companies to save money, it isn't taking jobs away from people who actually have degrees. In fact with the money they save from outsourcing they can spend to hire more developers. India is your FRIEND!

>>5804978

So if there's nothing waiting for them why not find something for them to put their efforts towards? There has to be an untapped market for some kind of service somewhere in the world.

How about Africa? As fucked up as it is Africa has tons of room for improvement which we may be able to provide.

>>5805015
I fail to see how this thread is awesome. It seems like a typically /r9k/ thread to me.. a bunch of bawfags bawwing (about the economy this time instead of women) with some political trolling mixed in...

>>5804950
>Were the majority of people farmers, merchants, blacksmiths, sailors or what? It seemed to work back then somewhat so I'm wondering what happened.

Most families stopped farming, leaving fewer and fewer very large farms that grow and produce thing here in the US. The rest of the produce, in particular, is now grown in Mexico and a few other countries.

Most merchants(mom and pop style businesses) died out because of big industries like Wal-Mart. They come in and run the mom and pop stores out of business.

Most skills like blacksmithing aren't needed generally anymore. There are few exceptions but that aren't as prevalent because the need isn't there now.

And as far as the military goes, most people rarely in-list not due to a sense of duty to their country like they used to. The vast majority of military people are just random kids with no real future and former inmates trying to clean up.

>>5805019
>>5805019
He wasn't talking about that. . . but why in hell do people pay for software? When they finally all ask that question out loud, they'll switch to linux and shut your righteous ass down.

You are implying that our generation are incapable of entrepreneurship. Insinuating, through this short paragraph, that we have earned an easy path. One that rewards a job based on our graduation from college.

It is in our best interest to create our own way. It is through innovation and "tinkering" that ideas have been brought to light that are now reaping the benefits of a "big guy" who feel asleep at the wheel.

This is not easy, and the way ahead is unclear. However one path that is the one that has yet to be cleared. We must make our own jobs to get ourselves paid. Then we can better this, "unfair" world, by creating jobs for people in your state of mind. These jobs are the future.

Innovate as our forefathers did and we have a chance. By being productive and making our own way we need not rely on another to sustain our livelihoods.

We will fail capitalism if we cannot get over our forced sense of entitlement.

Be excited for your turn to meddle in this capitalist marketplace. You gained valuable knowledge and skills at college put them to use for yourself. You got student loans, you can get small business loans. There are jobs, shitty jobs, out there you can do to save money to make your dream job. There are so many oportunities provided by this system.

Capitalism has been dealt so many blows over the past few years, let us not let it crumble.

"I've never met a rich man who had not lost money, but I've met thousands of poor men who haven't lost a penny." - Robert T. Kiyosaki

came ITT to laugh at the self righteous junkie and the liberal arts degree faggots

>>5805038
Why would you enlist out of a sense of duty? The only wars we're fighting are clusterfucks across the world where we're barely holding our heads above water for reasons almost no one can see.

>>5804998
IT kind of sucks, if you aren't on the engineering/design side then you are going to get outsourced. Probably to Toronto, god knows they have too many Punjab Indians there.

this is always encouraging though.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/article899707.ece

>>5805030
If your employment solution to young white educated Americans honestly is "Move to sunny Africa!" go fucking kill yourself.

>>5804420

fuck yea, reap the rewards you earned em'. Serious fuck you to liberal arts leaches.

>>5805048
This isn't the 1950s. We can't "tinker" our way out of this you faggot.

>>5805030
>There has to be an untapped market for some kind of service somewhere in the world.

They don't need our labor, but this part of your statement is correct. Companies around the world have been trying to build up market share in Asia during this recession since the recovery there has been so much faster.

>>5804664

Holy shit, that's fucking pathetic.

Personally, I'm all about "bootstraps" to some extent, but we're past the point where "bootstraps is actually going to do the trick. In a lot of places, you can tug your bootstraps until you pass out and nothing's going to happen, but that doesn't mean we should fucking give up!

I'm going to be prepared to settle for less, but there are lines that you should not settle on! Learning to live with your parents is not a fucking line to settle on. That's you giving up on life. If you are stooping as low as, "You know what? I don't need to live my own life. I can cling to my parents coattails just fine!", then you might as well kill yourself right now, because you will never procreate, nor will you ever work a meaningful job. You are passing the lowest common denominator for being a human being with a purpose.

If this attitude is really the future of our generation, then we're pretty fucked.

>>5805069

I mean build and design the infrastructure for Africans. While going there may be useful it won't always be necessary.

>>5805045
The vast majority of people don't want to actually be bothered with learning about hardware/software, this is why apple is cashing in so well right now. When you are in the dark crevasses of the internet it might feel like nobody ever pays for anything, but the reality is the exact opposite.

>>5805048
Wanting very hard to work and not being able to find any work at all isn't "entitlement". Seriously, stop reading Ayn Rand.

>>5805105
Most African countries have no money to pay for infrastructure.

>>5805091
your mentality will leave you futureless. You have failed yourself by underestimating your abilities to engineer great things. Go out there and get something done "you faggot".

>>5805059
That was exactly my point. No one in-lists now because of duty. No one gives a damn about these wars like they did in WW2. People volunteered by the shitloads in WW2, because they cared about the country. Now they just volunteer because they don't have anything better to do and you get free money for shooting sand niggers.

aw shit, the randroids are coming out the woodworks. prepare for BOOTSTRAPS BOOTSTRAPS BOOTSTRAPS

>>5805120

You are not entitled to work. This is capitalism make your own.

Just posting to say that I have been unemployed for ten months, most likely going to be the entire year. I went to college because I wanted to finally pull my family out of poverty, but I forgot that the universe never returns our best wishes.
Oh well. Though I make sure that any place I apply to that doesn't hire me, I make sure I will never, ever shop there or use their products again.

I'm a sophomore in college and I already have a job offer for when I graduate at a big computer software/hardware company. Think about the biggest one there was for a long time in the US. How did I get it? Connections, brobots, connections. I made adult friends in high school, I volunteered, I worked for less than minimum wage for some smart, well-connected motherfuckers. And you know what? Now I'm being rewarded for my actions.
I'm a shy as shit kid, every time I would go to talk to those people about anything it was agonizing. But I pulled through it, and now I'm going to reap the rewards. So eat shit you whiny douches, I worked fucking hard to get where I am and I know for a fact I deserve all the good shit I'm going to get.

>>5805101
I live with my parents after 7 years of living on my own and earning a living wage because I was almost homeless. I went hungry too long to just grind me teeth though it. I lost everything, don't tell me I didn't try hard enough, and don't tell me I'm not still trying. You have delusions of grandeur and a sense of entitlement thinking you can accomplish anything if you just "try hard enough". That's not always true, and lately, it's often not true.

>>5805151
Lol, thats more than a little immature and pathetic bro.

>>5805138

never read rand. I am a free market capitalist trying to instill some hope in our futures. I'm just saddened by the depressed mood this economy has us all in. Shit does suck but should we let that cripple us?

I want to feel that we can make our markets work for us, perhaps I'm wrong and the world will end this way.

>>5805030

For sure. You can do a lot worse in life to build schools for kids while learning a new culture and travelling. Case in point:

Wall St. Banker: I greedily usurped my fellow countrymen and cost them their quality of life. People lost their retirement because of me.

You: Cool story, bro. I built essential infrastructure for poor people in need. Kids will grow up healthier and better educated because of me.

Who wins?

I think most of you just have a hard time finding jobs because you suck as people. Even if you have a degree and lots of experience/education nobody will hire some annoying asshole.

>>5805121

Food, water, electricity. Things that you can build that they'll come to rely on you for.

If we start with the most basic things that everyone in America has and doesn't even bat an eyelash at later on we'll be able to build up to selling them more glamorous things.

Africans are already adopting cell phones like crazy.

>>5805142
make my own what? What are you talking about? Am I supposed to will an industry to life? Beg people for employment? Go make fucking mud patties in my yard and sell them to cars passing by? What fucking solution do you have?

>>5805159
You forgot to mention you had a whole lot of luck..

>>5805142

To start your own business costs about 200,000 dollars. What college graduate has that kind of cash on hand? From what I know, most people who graduate college are already in debt.

>>5805142
We've tried and it didn't work. We're still trying and it still isn't working.

Capitalism has failed. "Bootstraps" have failed. Time for some new ideas, oldfuck. Preferably, ones that don't come from people like you.

This whole thread is about the destruction of the middle class and quite a few posters don't seem to realize it.

>>5805048

I like your ideas in general, but we don't need capitalism to be creative and entrepreneurial. I like the concept of a socialism of ideas, and an economy of innovation rather than credit/debt.

>>5805160
I feel for you. Tho, some people have to fail for others to succeed.

>>5805165
How so? I was willing to work at a job I was over qualified for, and I really do mean work, not just half ass my way through a day. I was desperate and needed the work. They told me no. Too bad for me. Well, too bad for them.
Door swings both ways. And personally, I can live fine without going to Target, or going to a couple banks, or going to the other stores.

>>5805159

Same here. Recently graduated and already making 6 six figures with no experience because i know the people who work at the IT firm. You all choose the wrong fucking majors lol

>>5805209
I thought this thread was about nobody wanting to hire autistic social retards no matter what kind of grades they have.

>>5805169
You bizarre "market of self" philosophy isn't even capitalism. You can't just make money out of time and space unless you're suggesting we sell our internal organs. You probably never even held a job or you get a disability check form the government. I think you just want us to slave in anyway possible to pay our tax and your government check.

Nothing is wrong with the economy. You fags just choose the wrong career path

>>5805215
I am much like you in that I also prefer making general economic prescriptions with buzzwords instead of discussion of specific policies and strategies designed to improve economic growth while allowing for a fair income distribution.

>>5805209

Yes, I read somewhere that the rich/poor gap is higher than it has been in centuries. Can anyone verify this? If it's true, our society has lapsed on an extreme scale.

too bad we can't help each other out in this shit-market.

>>5805220
So, essentially you're saying you really didn't actually apply that many places if it won't have much of an effect on your life.

>>5805256
You personally may have a hard time finding an opportunity to make money. But that is not to say that there are no opportunities to make money you cannot envision.

Perhaps you should bio-engineer organs and sell them?

>>5805297
I can grow my own vegetables and power my house with photovoltaics. I'm not giving another cent to those bloodsucking bastards.

>>5805217
And out of that is born by ultimate goal in this life. To make sure that every man, woman and child dies leaving this world completely empty and void of human life.

>>5805277

Discussion of specific policies and strategies designed to improve economic growth while allowing for a fair income distribution are welcome here, please proceed.

>Nothing is wrong with the economy.

HA HA, OH WOW.

I really, honestly, hope you're a troll. Because if not, goddamn you're a dumbass.

>>5805308
Once again, randriods and their magic money investing trees.

Income distribution should not be fair. Your future planning is rendered ineffective by .... Teh black swan OMG dropped it.

goodnight

>>5805129
The 50s wasn't facing an imminent oil and clean drinking water shortage. By the 2020s, we'll probably be living in Interesting Times.

The fact is that it is much harder to get established now than it was decades ago. The US GDP has increased drastically, yet real wages have failed to follow. A HS diploma has lost its value, while the price of college has increased. The way the older generation casually dismisses these issues and attributes them to the younger generation's laziness or whatever is, frankly, quite arrogant and ignorant.

>>5805333

magic money tree, aka: stem cell research.

>>5805273

Everyone should be an engineer or an IT specialist?

When liberal arts becomes the wrong career path, throw in the towel. We're all fucked if no one can think critically about the bullshit that's getting thrown in our face.

Naysayers in this thread are calling us autistic, but I know plenty of IT people who have literally no imagination and only read technical writing. How is that going to move society forward?

>>5805346

I agree that dismissing these issues and attributing them to the younger generation's laziness is arrogant and ignorant. I disagree that we are neglecting them. Things change values are in constant flux and have been set higher. Adaptation is required.

You seem learned in specifics, i am not and appreciate your input. I just want to feel that this song that I am forced to dance to is one that I wont cripple my legs trying to learn.

>>5805357

>move society forward

get rid of that altruistic way of thinking, bro

Good thread.

Good luck everyone. We all need it.

>>5805277

Why don't you read then: http://www.battleofideas.org.uk/index.php/2009/session_detail/2691/

>>5805346
>The way the older generation casually dismisses these issues and attributes them to the younger generation's laziness or whatever is, frankly, quite arrogant and ignorant.

A more appropriate explanation for the lower returns on a high school diploma and bachelors degree is that as workers we are now facing more competition than ever before. More degree holders here at home, a FUCKTON more degree holders abroad. Unfortunately those of us who would have lived a privileged life 50 years ago while all the brown and yellow folks were all toiling in subsistence farming are now having to compete. Interesting times indeed.

>>5805129
I am an engineer, but I don't design for your future, I design for no future. My designs are distopian, embrace entropy, and are perfect projections onto the "after" post-modern. I am a perfect product of my environment. Do not expect me to clean up after your mess, though I assure you I account for it, but you will not profit from it in the slightest. I am one of many like me. We embrace that your kind has left us no future.

>>5805295

we CAN

mootbloxxxxxx

>>5805185
I made my own luck. Luck would be if I just stumbled into this shit. I worked my ass off in high school and anyone who says I didn't earn what I'm getting is a fucking idiot and trying to feel better about his poor decision-making.

>>5805160

So you dove in over your head, getting a place that you couldn't afford on your salary, and then when it collapsed you came to the conclusion "I worked so hard and it still didn't work! That means I should go back to Mom and Dad and get used to it".

Thrilling stuff.

Next time work smarter rather than harder. I have no pity for people who had jobs and still managed to fail hard enough that they moved back in with the folks.

>>5805428
>inb4 cognitive dissonance when shit doesn't workout as planned.

>>5805444
I got my hours severely cut at work. I looked for 6 months for a job and couldn't find one. What the hell are you talking about? I found an apartment in Chicago for $390 a month (in a nice neighborhood, mind you), by the beach all utilities included. It was so cheap it was a miracle and I still couldn't make it. You're a completely delusional, self ingratiating asshole.

>>5805393

Hell no. It happens to work in the great white north. America really needs it right now.

It's amazing to see a country that can barely lift a finger to help an entire city after it gets owned by a hurricane. It's like having the third world next door.

In America no one gives a shit about each other and you're eating shit for breakfast now. Go figure.

>>5805357
>I don't realize that engineering these days has a strong emphasis on critical thinking skills.
Cool story, bro.

>>5805446
As planned? Let's see, if that fails me I've got my old job to go back to, not the best-paying but I'll take it, or any number of my friends to ask for jobs from (surely a few of them will be successful), or even the job offers that most people in my major are getting right out of college.
And if none of that works out I can always start my own business. I'm currently saving money with a summer job and a part-time job during the school year.
Yes, I fucking worked my ass off, and yes, I will succeed. I'm sorry if you're bitter that you didn't plan as well as I have, but shit is going to work out for me, because I will make it work out.
If you can't get a job, the problem is, at least partially, YOURS. YOU were the one who squandered your time, didn't make friends, didn't network, didn't get a useful degree, didn't go to college, didn't learn a trade (electricians and plumbers make a lot of money now, someone else mentioned welding), and just sat on your ass and talked about how you want to japan all day. YOU, YOU, YOU. Your fault.

>>5805428
To kid yourself, bro. You got fuckin' lucky.
I can guarantee you that there's quite a few of us that worked just as hard as you did AND made good decisions and just didn't have things work out for them as well as you did.

Everyone doesn't get lucky breaks, quit acting like everybody has the same cards dealt to them as you did.

>>5805489
America doesn't invest in its own future. Look at its basic infrastructure and how they treat their youth.

>>5805496
Look at that aspie rage. You ramble because you're insecure.

>>5805525
I bet he's short and Jewish.

>>5805525
Nope, just tired of the whining and wailing on here about how there are no jobs bawww and I deserve to work bawww no you don't you whiny shitheads don't deserve anything except maybe a good kick to the nuts.

>>5805537
I see it now. Bi-polar disorder.

>>5805496

Point taken. But surely you'd agree that there are different ways people can focus their thoughts, and we need as diverse a perspective as we can get?

>>5805537
Look out everyone, an arm chair commando who can't prove an inch of dick of what he's claiming.
Hey, I'm a capitalist who started a multi-billion dollar leather company by stretching and tanning my own ass! Bootstraps my boy! Bootstraps!

>>5805545
You can study whatever you want. I study greek and roman philosophy in my spare time. You can even do that shit for your major. But when there are no jobs for someone with a degree in Philosophy, and you complain about it, I'm just going to look at you and wonder if you thought ahead at all. Think about it. What job today *actually uses* philosophy? Well, there's philosophy professors. And that's it. Get a degree in something useful. Failing that, learn a useful trade, make some money, then go to college to learn interesting things.

>>5805507

And that's really it. That's what needs to be fixed. If we do that we'll be rewarded down the road.

>>5805567
AND YOU CAN AFFORD IT ALL WITH YOUR MAGIC RAND MONEY TREE! JUST WATER IT AND POOF! MONEY FOR TRADE SCHOOL!

>>5805550
>>5805542
>>5805533
>>5805525
>Herp derp it's on the internet so it must be a lie, nobody could be successful and confident!
I'm starting to pity you guys, I really am.

>>5805537
See, this attitude is fucking ridiculous and you're obviously from an area where some jobs still exist.

GET OUT OF YOUR FUCKING BUBBLE WORLD.
Not every place is exactly the same as wherever the hell you're at. Not everyone gets the same cards as you do. Not every situation is EXACTLY LIKE YOURS.

I live 30 fucking miles from the nearest town. There are no job opportunities within a 50 mile radius. NO ONE is hiring, whether you have a degree or not. I have no money to move. Yes, I want to work but there's nothing here.

There is NOTHING that can be done except wait out the storm and keep applying to random places in hopes somebody will call. That, and count my lucky stars I have helpful family nearby.

>>5805507
If you want the most damning evidence of this, look no further than the subprime mortgage bubble. Banks milked an unsustainable market until it collapsed, taking the rest of the country down with them.

>>5805570
but we won't because of fantasy "free market" assholes like the poster above yours. He thinks that roads, electric grids and future generation's potential and quality of life are magically made from bootstraps or some shit.

>>5805572
Bro, this country is practically begging for people who want to learn plumbing or electrician work. It's one of the few things you can do these days where you'll make enough money to pay back that loan no problem.
People are just lazy pieces of shit and don't want to put in the work of an apprenticeship.

>>5805567

I discuss this stuff all the time. A lot of jobs can use philosophy. It depends on the person doing it and how they communicate it.

Humanities grads aren't taught well how to make sense of their skills. The content is one thing, but the framework is something else entirely. Any humanities degree is about dealing with abstract concepts and ideas. Philosophy is built on logic and meaning, while history is about patterns and context and literature is about contrast and metaphor (in general at least). It's all useful as fuck IF you know how to articulate why it's helpful.

But I know where you're coming from. I studied humanities, but I tinkered with computers in my spare time and I'm in an applied program. I feel much more employable for that.

>>5805598
you are a fucking liar. There is no work for electricians or plumbers because there is no work for contractors. There hasn't been work for people in the building industry for years since after the housing bubble. I know lots of general contractors, plumbers and electricians who are completely out of work and their families are barely making it. Wives have flooded the work market because their husbands stopped earning. Now I am confident you are full of shit.

>>5805598
mootbloszzx
>Bro, this country is practically begging for people who want to learn plumbing or electrician work

Wow, you are living in the 1950s. And it's easy to tell you are a total douchbag IRL because you are a randriod that uses "bro" conversationally.

>>5805595

I'm starting to think we need to develop a barter system just so we can stay the fuck away from these poisonous banks.

If there's a way to get shit done without having to depend on this completely corrupt system I'm all ears.

It would be wonderful if people in government would stop sucking the tits of every lobbyist out there and start actually working on this shit themselves.

>>5805642
I hate to break it to you, but the sciences deal with abstract concepts, logic, and patterns as well. I'll admit there's not much metaphor involved, but somehow I doubt if I put down "metaphor-interpreting" as a skill on my resume, people would say to themselves "That's just what we need!"

IMHO, the humanities are useful as a backdrop, for providing context to things. My first reaction to somebody who is a Philosophy major is that they are lazy and didn't want to put in the work needed for a "real" major.

>>5805644
>>5805674
I know two electricians and three plumbers. All are complaining that they have too much work, they charge hundreds an hour. Maybe that's just them, but I doubt it. It's like computer-related fields - people are deathly afraid to go into it because they think there's no market, when the market is huge because people are afraid to go into it.
>>5805642
Use philosophy, yes. Have a direct and demonstrable effect because of your philosophy degree, no.
A philosophy degree is nothing like philosophy these days because it's all a big circle-jerk instead of developing useful lines of thought. Huge fucking disappointment, IMO. The only decent modern philosopher is Nick Bostrom, and he's just that, decent.

>>5805738

I'm just glad as hell some people think it is real and worth learning.

Here, watch this.

http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/10.09/communism.html

>>5805841
Even the hardline capitalists agree that the banking industry/health industry monopolies are bullshit. It's only the rich fat-cats and their lobbyists who disagree.
The fact that this is happening doesn't make socialism suck less. Socialism -> they have even more control or maybe some other dickheads get control.

>>5805739
oh sure, internet faggot says there is plenty of work, so much work people complain. And there is a chicken in every pot in every home! And magic money for everyone! What recession?!!?
There is no work for the building industry. There is no money to build because people can't get loans. There are no investors because there is no money to invest. Are you even American? Have you been paying attention? How do you know "two electricians and three plumbers"? you are so full of shit.

>>5805772
I think Philosophy is worth studying as long as it is grounded to reality.

>>5805861

I fail to understand what point you are trying to articulate because of the way you've worded your statement.

The problem we are facing here, as other anons have pointed out, is the destruction of the middle class. This is caused by an exponential inflation of consumer debt, educational, and occupational requirements, and the outsourcing of jobs. Combine this with the money robbed from taxpayers, and you have a very bleak future on the horizon.

People this is a deliberate action taken against us.

How can someone make an argument that I haven't worked hard enough? Is it just easy to say that far away on some computer? Have some employed people just become drunk with arrogance because they have been lucky enough to be employed this whole time? Can they not conceive that circumstances happen, and they could be next in line to misfortune? I think it must be easy for some people to talk like they would do better, coming from a better circumstance and by being far away.

>>5806130
Luck.
That's all it is. They've literally just never dealt with anything bad. These are the people that when life finally does deal a blow, they aren't weathered enough to handle it and they kill themselves.

They strut around acting better than everyone and assuming you or I COULD do as they did and we just don't feel like it. That's rarely the case.
You will never get through to these people. Even if you tell them you've tried time and again, they don't care and they don't believe you. They still "had it harder" than you did and made it through(read:LUCK) and as far as they're concerned you'll never do better than them because they think you don't care to try.

Protip: These people are the most scared that they're about to lose everything and they don't have a clue what to do when they finally do.

>>5806178
Thank you. These assholes were making my head pound. I haven't slept all night, but at least in a couple of hours I get to go to my small job that may lead to a better job. I'm just honestly scared that it's going to be like this for me for a long time or for the rest of my life. I can't believe how tired I am and I'm very young.
It's ironic, I could live with so much less than so many people, but I can't even get close to that. How do you have a life when you earn $6,000 a year (my current income)? I buy nothing, I have no vices and I have no fun. I just work and work and work and don't expect a day off or a vacation. I wouldn't even consider that either. This whole episode of the beginning of my life worries me so bad.

>>5806216
I understand, man. Seriously. I've been unemployed since Feb. of this year(got laid off) and literally CAN NOT find a job that pays more than minimum wage anywhere between here and about 40-50 miles away. It's not worth it for me to drive that far for that little money, I'd be losing money going to work.

It urks the shit out of me to come on here and see people who just automatically assume that I'm not trying just because they got lucky and still have a job.
I've worked just as hard as anyone else, when I was working, and I still don't dare say I deserve more than anyone else because of it.
But I understand what you mean by being tired. I wake up some days and feel like I'm 40 instead of 25.

There is no excuse not to major in an IT subject. Everyone should go into IT all at once, right now. This is a perfectly reasonable expectation that has never caused problems before and there is no possible logical flaw here.

>>5806601
Read your post. Read it. Did that make sense even to you?

>>5806631
Face fucking palm.

(fuckmuted)

>>5806631
And this, my friends, is what happens to people's minds in a world where the liberal arts have no value.