Life deals some people a shitty hand. Not my problem.

To be honest, I'm quite surprised your mother got laid to begin with.

>>5161583
No it's not your problem, but if we're gonna rely on the insurance industry to make health care affordable then they need to actually PROVIDE IT TO THE PEOPLE WHO FUCKING NEED IT.

>>5161583
But it could very well someday become your problem.

Also, socialized medicine would cost you less in taxes in what you already pay, per capita Canada and Britain pay less than the Americans, and we have free healthcare.

Its in your best interests to support this, even if you hate everyone.

>>5161583
The people who usually say this make under 70K so they should just STFU

>>5161588

yeah seriously what the fuck, was your dad some weirdo with a cripple fetish or what?

conservatives make up about half of the population
conservatives don't like change

it sucks I know

It's actually fucking scary how crazy batshit insane the libertarians and conservatives are getting.

Oh, and truthers...jesus they are the lowest form of life on the fucking planet. Almost all of them are fat middle aged women from Alabama.

>>5161606
Aside from being really skinny my mother isn't that unusual looking...Also she was able to walk when my mom and dad were together. They're degenerative diseases

>>5161573
You really think that the government managing ALL her health care and insurance would make it better?
I feel sorry for your brain. Must be starved.

Tell me. Why do UPS and other such package delivery companies exist?
because USPS sucks.
because the government sucks.

fuck your shit, libfaggot.

>>5161606

well he said she works 50 hours a week so it's obvious they're not together anymore. Maybe he was just satisfying a curious itch.

I'm not worried about this socialist healthcare plan because Obama's dick just shriveld up in fear of Republicans and protests who may or may not know that the fuck they are talking about. Free American healthcare is a pipedream.

>>5161631
It doesn't work like that... but whatever floats your boat.

PS I'm not explaining it to you. You wouldn't understand it, and I'm certainly not wasting my time typing it out.

If this thing goes through, Obama will be dead within two weeks. Guaranteed.

Why the fuck would insurance companies cover someone with 2 degenerative diseases? It's not like she might get better. Think about this for a minute, dumbfucks.

Coming Soon:

363 posts and 2 image replies omitted. Click Reply to view.

I like seeing people effectively protesting the government for once.

>>5161631
The Postal Service may suck but plenty of other government institutions don't.

To name a few: The Military, Nasa, and the Interstate system

>>5161656
She's lived over 30 years longer than she was told she wood. She's surviving with the disease, but getting sick and injured does not HELP. Either way, she deserves health care.

we live in a country of stupid fearful people. However, Obama is doing the worst possible job so far in pushing for health care and so far deserves to fail.

>>5161656
Why the fuck would banks give out loans to starting businesses? It's not like they're going to be succesful, think about this for a minute dumbfucks.

>>5161656
Whether or not to cover someone's health care should not be a profit/loss decision you fucking asshole

>>5161684
NO SHE DOESN'T, IT'S NOT A RIGHT AAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR SUPER RAGE ACTIVATE

>>5161631
If it meant more people could get insurance, I would be happy. Half the people who bitch and don't want this to pass already have health insurance. Try living without it, then talk.

Your mom should have been eliminated at birth.

>>5161597
Actually, considering the way insurance works, it is unlikely to become his problem. He probably has insurance that will cover him if he gets sick because the chance of it happening is low.

People like the OPs mother should have been exposed at birth, not given free healthcare.

Too many people in this world believe they are entitled to everything. They think that the world exists to do them favors and fix everything.

>>5161707
Why does that mean she doesn't deserve it? Why does she not deserve health care? Because she has a condition that prevents insuring her from being profitable for a corporation?

Why do you think something needs to be spelled out in the constitution for it to be something people should have. The federal government doesn't have the right to have an air force, doesn't mean its not a good thing to have.

>>5161716
OP here.

Exposed? Like she was fucking taking advantage of something?

Listen shit for brains. My mother was told from the time she was child until she was 18 and able to get a second opinion that she was FAKING her pain. FAKING it.

So because doctors fucked up my mom has to suffer her whole fucking life?

God I am so fucking pissed. If I saw you on the street right now I would stab you in the motherfucking face

BAAAAWWW LIFE ISN'T FAIR, FORCE PEOPLE TO MAKE IT FAIR!

Fucking leftists.

>>5161728
Yeah, man. Back in the day, if you broke your leg you just poured some alcohol on it and wrapped it up with a shirt. Sure, you had a 75% chance of dying...but yeah.

If the Europeans have got such a great system, then why does their long term survival rates for cancer suck so bad:
Heres something from a study by EUROCARE:
>The United Kingdom in particular comes out badly in the tables, showing cancer survival rates that are among the worst in Europe. The findings suggest that the national cancer plan for England, which began in 2000, is not working

and more:
>One of the reports compares the statistics from Europe with those from the United States and shows that for most solid tumors, survival rates were significantly higher in US patients than in European patients. This analysis, headed by Arduino Verdecchia, PhD, from the National Center for Epidemiology, Health Surveillance, and Promotion, in Rome, Italy, was based on the most recent data available. It involved about 6.7 million patients from 21 countries, who were diagnosed with cancer between 2000 and 2002.

>>5161728
OK I'm gonna murder your family and take your possessions. If you call the cops you're a hypocrite

why the fuck does healthcare cost so fucking much anyways?

My dad had pretty bad health about a year ago and without insurance it seriously would have cost like $4,000 a nite just to stay at the hospital. wtf?

I think most of this money is going to pay for lawsuits and lawyers.

>>5161790
Again with this cancer bullshit. The Euros are better at preventing it to start with. Owned. Also UK != Europe.

>>5161790
What's most frustrating about this debate are idiots like this who pull up a single chart from somewhere and use it to justify denying healthcare to 50 million americans. I hate people like you

>>5161797
Because the health care industry runs off of profits.

An industry that's profits hinge on the life and death of its clients. There's no incentive to cure or prevent diseases because the money is in treating symptoms indefinitly.

My brother was unfortunately born with Cerebral Palsy and through various complications he needed exgtensive surgeries. I myself had polyps on my larnyx that although benign threatened to manually asphixiate me over time and I had to have 9 laser surgeries (Along with an absolute avalanche of visits with specialists as both my condition and the treatment was somewhat rare in the early 70's) Both me and my brother required long periods of hospitalization before and after each surgery.
We were born and were living in Canada. My father was an executive with an American oil company and as part of his pay package he had kickass coverage for all of us, we could have gone to the USA and recieved whatever treatment we wanted at any time (he could have easily afforded our treatments in the USA even without his work's uber coverage). But there was no need. Socialized healthcare worked just fine.

Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states:

1. Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services...

Good luck OP, I hope your mother can get the care she needs.

>>5161833
Say that to my mother faggot. I may be fuzzy on the details but the FACT is that no insurance company will cover her.

>>5161790
Health care quality has nothing to do with insurance you retard. In what way is this reform going to make our doctors crappier? Think before you speak.

>>5161832
So they can prevent cancer but once you have it you are fucked?
also lrn2read:
>One of the reports compares the statistics from Europe with those from the United States

>>5161573
So? She should die, it's not going to make any difference in my life. We can't save everyone, and to be honest, there aren't many white knights left.

>>5161596
So, why do a majority of the people have health insurance? Why aren't people dying in the street? Why didn't everyone die before medicare/social security? Why didn't people die before insurance itself? People, no matter their case in life, shouldn't get special treatment at the cost of others, that is the way every government should view the situation. >>5161764
No one cares.

>>5161857
Fine. Give me her number and I will tell her.
Either you are lying or she is lying.

sssSeriously, why does health care cost so much?

If it's cause they're making so much money, then what's to stop me from opening a cheaper hospital and taking all their patients? <--- rhetorical question, obviously I am not a doctor and can't open my own hospital.

Only G-d knows who shall live and who shalln't. You can't go against fate religion hating liberals.

HOPE derp

>>5161868
This is exactly what's wrong with America today. The "It's not my problem attitude"

If you or someone you love and care about was affected like my mother has been then you'd learn to care really fucking fast faggot.

>>5161793

Your analogy is flawed. I pay cops because I pay my taxes. I am not "entitled" to police protection; they are fulfilling their contract. I don't deserve police protection just because I am a human being.

>>5161897
You're taxes pay for police for everyone, not just you. Just like you're taxes would pay for health care for everyone, not just you.

>>5161868
The majority of people have health insurance through a combination of employer backed plans people couldn't afford individually and medicare/medicaid. Only something around 4% of American's buy their own insurance.

And your logic is pathetic. If people are healthy, they can be more productive. If they are more productive, thats good for the rest of us. You don't live alone. Your world is part of one populated by everyone else. If they aren't doing well, it does effect you. Putting your head in the sand and complaining isn't going to make your life better. Its going to make it a hell of a lot worse.

>>5161896
Of course I would care if it were my mom. I just don't give a shit about your mom or most people's moms.

>>5161882
Since when did you need to be an expert in the field of anything to start a business in said trade in America? You could start an insurance company and undercut the others.

>>5161832
And you are full of shit as well:
Here is a quote from the Journal of the National Cancer Institute that states the following:
> In June, The US reported a decrease in cancer rates while Western Europe reported an increase.
and why is Cancer in the US falling while it is rising in Europe?
>Lung Cancer is increasing in Western Europe rather than dropping like in the United States.
Sauce:
http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/93/19/1444

>>5161927
Yes well that wouldn't change the fact that it costs my insurance company $300 or whatever every time someone sees a doctor. That's too fucking expensive. I really think at least half of that money is going to pay lawyers and lawsuits anyways (ie getting wasted).

>>5161926

The point is that it is quite possible for you to be affected now or in the future, so it's only logically that you would want a system in place to address said problem when and if it comes along

>>5161923
How far are you willing to use this argument? You can justify a lot of shit with it.

>>5161935
And we all know that lung cancer is the only kind of cancer and is totally not subject to extraneous factors such as lifestyle, you fucking OWNED the shit out of that anon with your post, great job!

Productive people can get health insurance from their employer.
Isn't this the same board that berates non college grads and similar types for being worthless but now you want to rise up and give people who didn't have the ability to pay attention in class and go to a good school free health care?
Hypocrite much /r9k/?

>>5161954
I'll take it as far as its logically constructive. Just because it can be used to justify something stupid, doesn't mean it isn't apt to this discussion.

I agree with healthcare reform, but I don't think it should be ran by the government, I think we should make some laws about it. But if the government runs healthcare they pretty much own you, where does our government stop providing? Everyone needs feed, transportation and shelter, should the government give that out for free too? Just a thought

>>5161917

I am not my brother's keeper. I have no intrinsic responsibility to provide health care for others.

My problem is not having to pay for social services, it ishaving people say that they DESERVE health care.

ITT: Children that dont pay taxes yet and dont realizer that they are ALREADY PAYING FOR THE HEALTHCARE OF OTHER PEOPLE

Libertarian spotting guide (choose three or more of the following):

* Never got a disease, illness, or condition that required expensive treatment, nor know anyone in their immediate family or circle of friends (lol) who did;
* Thinks Herbert Spencer was a smart dude;
* Took ECO 101 and was hit with a sudden epiphany: THE FREE MARKET IS THE BEST THING EVAH;
* Believes libertarian think tanks trumps all other sources of athoritative knowledge;
* Is completely unable to think in terms of social relationships or the long-term consequences of drastic policy changes;
* Is a white, upper-middle to upper class class male who had everything handed to him on a silver platter, but is deluded into thinking he somehow deserved it.

>>5161968
So you didn't read the article then?
Guess not.
Because if you had educated yourself (I know you are afraid of having your preconceived notions challenged) you would have seen that the article addresses ALL cancers, not just Lung Cancer, which I picked to illustrate the point.
So please try to learn something before you spout off at the mouth,
unless you are afraid of the truth, anon?

KEEP YOUR GOVERNMENT HANDS OFF MY MEDICARE DERP HERP

>>5161983
First off, its not free. Its a more affordable insurance that you have to pay a premium for. Second, we do have food stamps and public transportation. And there are government funded housing projects too.

Personally I think healthcare should be even more expensive. I mean, money's gotta go somewhere.

>>5161573
OP, the people you see in the town halls, the "deathers", simply don't care.

They probably don't have health insurance, but they claim that that they don't want higher taxes for a "public option".

>>5162026
Dude, OP is full of shit.
Read this post >>5161833

>>5161996
who fucking cares who says what? Fucking kids need to see doctors and sometimes they cant because their parents are fuckups or in a shitty situation, bottom fucking line. Fuck your angst over some meathead's ideology.

>>5162012
>Second, we do have food stamps and public transportation. And there are government funded housing projects too.
Get rid of them all.

>>5162012
You missed my point. I believe in reform, but not reform that involves the government paying for anyones healthcare. Reform that requires health insurance providers to take on new clients with pre-existing health conditions. I know, we have foodstamps, housing and transportation...but not for everyone. Nothing is set in stone yet anyways.

ITT: libertarians who are morally bankrupt and dangerously out of touch with reality

I like these "health care is NOT a right!!!" arguments. It's like saying, you don't deserve to be healthy like the rest of us.

Even funnier is that the ones who make this argument are probably the same people who went crazy over the "death panel" rumours, failing to realize that the current system, where sick patients are dropped and denied coverage because it hurts the insurance companies bottom line, IS a death panel.

>>5162076
You want morals go get fucking religion.
Fuck your morals you have no right to force them on me anymore than a republican with his anti gay marriage pro life shit.
Fuck yourself.

>>5162071
Okay. I disagree.
>>5162055
Really? Public transportation too? Public transportation is nothing but a good thing.

>>5162004
the article that says that the results themselves are skewered by the fact that people live longer in europe? perhaps YOU should learn to read and not be afraid to comprehend words that are strung together in a way that challenges your preconcieved notions before you spout off at the mouth like an angsty pretentious faggot. I cant really say anything about educating yourself, since YOU linked the information, I will however suggest that you research tiem travel and find a way to go back in time 12 years to slap the needle out of your pregnant mother's arm and tell her that heroin is not an appropriate method of soothing the discomfort of childbirth.

>>5162104
I wish I could buy you an island somewhere. I truly do. You start saving up. Maybe someday you can live out your fantasy of not having anything to do with anyone else.

>>5162104

An atheist can't have morality? You live in a society that's defined by by it. You can't escape it. Do you enjoy have having Nietszche's cock rammed down your throat?

preemptive building blox

>>5162076
>ITT: republicans who are morally bankrupt and dangerously out of touch with reality

fixed for accuracy

As far as I'm concerned, government run health care will only benefit the poor and the really sick.

I don't give a shit if either of these groups of people die.

>>5162140

I think he realizes that he has effects on others and just doesn't care.

>>5162071

Do you realize that the only reason the insurance companies went along with Obama's health care reforms is because they won't have to take on patients with preexisting conditions? The public option would do that for them. Without that, there is no way in hell they will compromise to take on people who will cost them money.

Morality and religion are not synonymous

Morality and living a good, harmonious life are causally related.

See the recent "People who have impressed you" thread.

>>5162167

Of course you don't. We're on 4chan, nobody cares about anybody

>>5162120
Thats not at all what it says.
Nice try though.
Using the adjusted rates, Dr. McLaughlin discovered that cancer rates were almost the same between the US, Britain, Canada, and Western Europe. These are adjusted for the age discrepancy keep in mind now.
So the Adjusted rates so no difference in cancer incidence between those countries, not as >>5161832
attempted to state that the incidence rates are lower in Europe.
But as you see in the next sentence, there is an exception, Prostate cancer incidence in HIGHER in Europe than in the US.
So you seem to be the one who has some reading problems.
Perhaps if your daddy took is cock out of your ass and read you a bedtime story you might gain a few points.
BTW, pic related.
For the butthurt you just displayed

>>5162167

>OH NO I HAVE BRAIN CANCER

>THE DOCTOR SAYS THE SURGEONS MIGHT BE ABLE TO SAVE ME BUT THE OPERATION IS TOO EXPENSIVE =(

>I GUESS THIS IS THE END OF THE LINE FOR ME SINCE I'M WORTHLESS TO THE MARKETS

>BRB KILLAN SELF

>>5162076
>>5161999
you're thinking randroids.

they read too much of that ayn rand, and it gave them the brain damage, you see?

>>5162174
I'd like to see your source on that. Every iteration of the bill I've heard about has explicitly required that insurance companies take people with preexisting conditions. They have been devoting large parts of the bills to preparing for it in fact.

>>5162167
I don't give a shit if most people die. Everyone else doesn't actually care too much either, yet they will hate people like us because we admit it.

>>5162235

YOU'RE A TRUE REBEL, SON

HIGHLY IMPRESSIVE, HERO TO THE IMPERIUM ETC

>>5161790
How many people died from cancer without being diagnosed? Most people in the US that would be checked for cancer can afford treatment.

Example: Sen. Chris Dodd went to his Government paid for yearly physical and the doctor found cancer. Had it not been paid for by the government he wouldn't have known, might have died from the cancer and not been part of those numbers.

The only reason that these health care bills are being pressed so hard is that the Democratic Party's (and Obama's) credibility will be destroyed if no reform passes.

>>5162235
I don't start bawling if I hear about some random stranger that dies on the news, but that doesn't mean I would fight against something that would improve the quality of life of a large portion of the country. Theres a difference between not caring and actively fighting against something.

>>5162276
I think Obama has wanted reform for a long time, as has many democrats. I think Obama cares more about getting it passed than he does about his poll numbers.

>>5162201
it says its inconclusive except for how it is skewered, Read, comprehend, cite, in that order. You will probably learn this when you get to secondary school.

a comparison of cancer rates between US and UK is totally pointless, the point is that you either have to spend your live savings on a treatment, just a small share of it, or just nothing. Think again all you Nazi - small-brains

>>5161868
>>5161868
Actually fucktard, people DID die back then.

Seriously you're all missing the point.

Healthcare will be a problem as long as it's ridiclously expensive due to overabundance of lawsuits related to malpractice. It's impractical and as long as we have people getting million dollar settlements every day healthcare is going to be unaffordable for the people who have to pay those settlements (you).