you have to be rich to be poor

you just don't get it, if the government were to just stop trying to control the free market then everyone would finally be able to act collectively for their own good and everything would be cheaper and we would all have lots of money and free ice cream!

Oh my god, there's so many fallacies and holes in this tory that I can't believe it is anything more than propaganda.

"He puts back the liter of soda. Puts back the paper towels. Sets aside $9 worth of hot fried chicken wings. "

Yup, that soda was clearly a need. Hot chicken wings? Clearly these people didn't have enough money that they needed soda.

Having to ride 3 -hours- to get to a grocery store? 3 HOURS? I cannot even fathom an area that has public transportation, and yet no grocery stores with in a ~20 mile radius.

Yeah, there are some poor people that really do need help. The people in this article are not those people.

They could stop buying expensive clothes and quit wearing them only once.

>>4228693

Yeah, poor people do not deserve anything more than the bare essentials, and even then those bare essentials cannot look good to my middle-class eye. He better drink his water straight from the faucet and LIKE it.

>>4228693
>tory
I would stop reading right there but a retard needs to be school.
1.Read the whole fucking article(all 5 pages bitch). Read about the gas station overpricing milk and bologna
2.Read about the goddamn washing machines.
3.Read about the goddamn checks
4.Just read the article

The fact that you neither read the article nor understood it says it all

Once there was a guy on line in front of me at the supermarket. He had a very nice selection of spices, a one use roasting pan, a fine large roast, and condiments. His bill was something like $50.00 for this one meal.

He paid in food stamps. I wanted to beat him to death.

Also, I used to live across the hall from a guy who'd get food stamps, and trade them at 50 cents on the dollar for weed.

>>4228709
I mean per washing.

>>4228750

One time I saw this guy with a high IQ and he said that anecdotal evidence is the best kind of evidence.

If you consider that you could buy five pounds of wings plus seasoning for that same $9.00 and have food for almost a week right there, it does make it look a little stupid.

And no, poor people shouldn't be wasting money on soda and packaged foods. We've had enough Hobo threads here to make it plain how you can eat well on little money. It takes whole foods and basic cooking skills.

All of you, back to your tents.
Filthy hippies.

>>4228769
One time I saw a liberal who needed to make excuses for people who make poor life decisions.

>>4228781
you mean the entire democratic party?

>>4228781

Not a liberal.

>>4228770

You're not getting it, poor people do not have time, money, or access to the shit we have. You're suggesting that because poor people are poor they do not deserve to have any enjoyment in life. They should wake up in the morning, wait half an hour for the bus. Transfer, wait another fifteen minutes for the next bus, get to work, work some crap job, get back on the bus. Get home after riding the bus for an hour, put some rice and beans on the stove, get some lukewarm tap water from the faucet, and go to bed. Also never have children. Also, never smile.

this could be prevented in the long run with better education, but i doubt anyone from a 1st world country would want to come to america and teach, which is what we'd need since, american teachers obviously do a shit job

>>4228833
Other than the no children part, that sounds like what a lot of poor people do everyday. It takes money to make money in this society and if you work and can barely pay off your monthly bills then you are a wage slave

>>4228833
No, I'm suggesting that if you're poor, life is hard. You're not entitled to a car, or leisure time, or extras. If you can find ways to acquire little things to make life better for yourself and your family, great.

Think how much harder a poor persons life would be with no bus service at all. So what if it means you have to spend extra hours on transportation, it beats walking.

>>4228770
You sir are a retard. You can't live off fucking wings alone much less a week. You'd probably be fat as fuck and hungry as fuck. Go read something besides a thread on here
>>4228836
You realize it costs money to go to college? You can get all the scholarships you want but it almost never gets you a full ride(or close). That's why parents save and teens get jobs. Even with all of this saving and working you will still need a student loan and probably have to pay it off after college for a while too.

>>4228885
You just said exactly what he said you said. If you think life should be hard on the poor and they shouldn't have opportunity or leisure than you are the problem. Goddammit it's like talking to a wall

ITT: We worry about the lives of our social and biological inferiors.

ITT ignorant rich people try to absolve their guilt by advocating for giving help to poor people.

ITT people who think taxing people/taking more money away will help more

>>4228903
Try reading it again. I'm not saying life should be made hard for poor people. I'm saying life IS hard for poor people. That's what poverty means, a hard life. When I say you're not entitled to a car, I mean if you can't afford one, you don't get one. When I say you're not entitled to leisure time, I mean that leisure time is a result of a surplus in time, left over from what's required to maintain yourself, and provide income. When I say you're not entitled to extras, I mean that if you barely have enough money to survive, you don't have enough money to buy extra things.

These are self evident facts, as a result of circumstances, not something wished upon the poor by anyone else.

ITT: We all try to say what is ITT.

>>4228833
Cooking a meal takes a short time longer than going down to the 711 to grab a hot dog, is a lot cheaper, and a lot healthier. The article is about poor people sacrificing the better choices for convenience, and even makes examples of how poor people trade their time for the better choices like going to the grocery store--it's just a matter of doing that consistently in all aspects of their life which would help them save some money.

>>4228905
ITT: The life any of us could be living right now given different circumstances.

Sack of potatoes for 10 dollars.
Going to Community College to learn legit trade (plumbing, programming).
Roughing it for one year.

Getting the fuck out of the projects.

There you go.

>>4228984
Like being stupid or lazy.

(I grew up in a poor family in the ghetto. Fuck off, middle or upper class faggot.)

Why do socialists and democrats try to exaggerate shit like this? As someone who has actually been in a poor immigrant family who didn't speak the language or know the culture and then worked hard, got educated, and admittedly got a few lucky breaks in the process to become much better off, I can tell you that between the local stores ripping you off, gas prices(so high I sold my car), no jobs(unless you have a car), and the whole RIP OFF LOL practices I used to spend more money on the basic necessities than the rich people I know now, but we kept our chin up and got rewarded for our perseverance.

Oh, but what's that? "I just don't get it, if the government were to just step in to control the free market then everyone would finally be able to act on behalf of their political overlords who know what's good for everyone and what everyone needs and whose needs are more urgent and everything would be cheaper and we would all have lots of money and free ice cream"?

Oh, NOW I get it.

Where the fuck is Horatio Alger when you need him?

Ragged dicks everywhere.

>>4229032
We don't want the government to control the free market... We just want greater public transit and health care. There are people who although they work hard get fucked.

You are one of few successes. Most of America is poor and living like shit right now. It isn't like we have a huge middle class. I'm surprised you think we shouldn't have public transit and health care.

It isn't only for the lazy people, it is for all the people. Faggots.

If you want to make a difference for the future, don't reproduce.

Libertarians and Republicans downplay those sorts of realities because without proper economic policies, that's what life would be like for everyone. They aren't harming you, they're helping themselves, and you're crying because you don't have the same advantages.

Focus on this statement:
>Many of these stores charge more because the cost of doing business in some neighborhoods is higher
They aren't ripping you off, they don't have as well developed a supply chain and have to start at the "bottom" so to speak, and go to neighborhoods that aren't as well served. They have to charge higher prices just to make it. I don't see how you expect any policy choices to affect this fact.

>>4229032
THISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTSHITSHITHSITHSITHSITSHITHSITHSITHSITHSITHSITHSITSHITHIS

>>4229032
This. People complain about how the government should do more to help them, and then say that the proper step should be government control. Except, oh wait, what do you think will happen? You think they're ignoring you now, what makes you think that them having control would actually lead them to improve your life? It's a self-defeating proposition.

>>4229012
Surely you are not >>4228905 ?

>>4229032

Yase, when in doubt always post more anecdotes. You can never have enough anecdotes.

>>4229105
Most of america is middle class...

As someone who used to be poor. You are so fucking tired at the end of the day, you don't give a shit what you eat as long as it is easy to make. Cooking if for people who sit down all day.

>>4229105
I'm a former libertarian who realized one day that the government really should provide public transportation and healthcare. A lot of economists have shit to talk about government healthcare, but I don't think it could get any worse than it is now, and we've got nowhere to go but up. Public transportation should be a no-brainer, although I may be biased, being as that I live in the largest city in the US to have absolutely no public transportation in any form.

(souce: http://www.planetizen.com/node/26984 )

>>4229170
That anecdotal bullshit cuts both ways libfag.

ITT : white/asians/hispanics, that just don't get it.
I'm sure some do, but think about it, it starts at the home, they didn't have the same home life as some other people did, sure some can make it out with a hard life, but the fact is most can't, without the right direction or guidance. I'll give you an hypothetically real ex:
Dwayne, Carlos, Jeb, or whatever ethnicity lives in a bad part of a town/city/district. His dad is an alcoholic/or drug abuser, his mom works HARD because she was pregnant as a teenager(through having no guidance in her life) Now said child isn't the sharpest person he can be, hell he never went to a prestigious school, he never had been good in sports etc. HEs a GENUINE FUCK-UP.

>>4229169
can you show me where you figured this?

>>4229224
Dude. Just....Jesus. Patronizing, paternalistic, racist (and I bet you don't even realize it) liberal BULLSHIT.

Sho' nuff dem po' blackies needz a hand UUUP from uncle sam. Dey's jus liek lil' chillunz.

>>4229224
This man could easily become a member of the lower middle class if he worked at it.

>>4229224 (continued)
the kid, is gonna end up doing what, he can, and what he thinks is right, No Counselor can convince him its better to try hard and take the hits life can give him because "someone" always has it worse(its true) but hes a kid he doesn't care, What he'll most likely think is cool is being COOL and what the hoodlums and media makes him think is cool. He'll hold on to ideals that doesn't make sense, he wont Care anymore HES IN THE HOOD AND HE LOVES IT.(i know this anybody living in the hood "truly loves how his life is) AND IT'LL BE A NEVERENDING CYCLE(maybe?)

NOW STFU and call me a FUCKING RETARDED MEXICAN

>>4229258
>>4229263
>>4229278
All I did was ask how he figured most of America was middle class. What the fuck is this?

>>4229258
>>4229263
>>4229278
Also I bet I live a way better life than any of you do right now. Retards.

>>4229032
I don't understand how poorfags move up in the world and turn republican/right wing.

You sir are the exception, not the rule. We had your lucky break from working hard, but you think these people aren't trying as hard or harder than we ever did to get ahead?

Never forget how difficult shit can be, it's what drove you to get where you are in the first place.

>>4229244
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_middle_class

and kindly fuck off if you don't think a wiki article that uses US CENSUS DATA isn't legitimate enough

>>4229320

The post was never genuine. He was bullshitting a story as most people in this thread and any thread are.

>>4229320

Says the guy whose parents have retirement accounts and could probably afford to help him through college.

>>4229244
an actual "middle class" number is hard to find because there are many places where your current income may be a lot or unlivable. So im basing it off of things people have. Like cable, cell phones or other nice things that are subscription based that you could do without or have a cheeper counterpart.

So most people are middle class but in large varying degrees. I see being poor as only being able/unable to pay for your car, house and food if you gave up nice things or made smart decisions about your money.

>>4229361
I spoke from experience. I've lived through poverty and it was only until a year and a half ago that things turned around.

my mom loves to work, i doubt she'll ever retire.

>>4228693
Funding public transportation is for socialists. If poor people were richer maybe businesses would consider building a transportation system from their hoods to their businesses.

>>4229320
Success from working hard is a lucky break?

>We had your lucky break from working hard

This is what liberals actually believe. Lost. So very lost

>>4229361
Not him but lol at US college prices. Hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt? No fucking thank you.

>>4229320
You do realize that not caring about the poor people is less a function of politicial affiliation and more a function of personal wealth? I mean, sure, big name democrats say they're going to help the poor, but lol. Anyone who eats that shit up deserves poverty for being a naive dumbass.

>>4229349
Depending on class model used, the middle class may constitute anywhere from 25% to 66% of households

>Depending on the class model

If we assume the best the middle class would make up majority or 66% of the population. If we assumed the worst middle class would make up 25% of the population which means the poor would make up most of the population.

I'll take the information as valid but it still doesn't show that the middle class makes up most of America.

>>4229390
Having a federal reserve is for socialists
Having a national holiday for election day is for socialists
Having food regulations is for socialists
Having taxes is for socialists


shut the fuck up

>>4229391
If you bothered to read the post he was quoting the poster admits to having lucky breaks himself...

>>4229393
I paid the whole way and am walking out with about $20k. Pretty reasonable considering how much it benefits me.

>>4229395
democrats republicans truth middle hurf durf

This article almost goes against it's intent. The people were described as making very, very stupid financial decisions. While it's probably true to an extent that credit companies and such are exploiting them, these people don't seem to be doing a lot to help themselves out either.

Still, I do support increasing public transport, on the grounds that it would create better markets and help the poor. One of the key points of the free market system is competition drives down prices, but if these people are being effectively isolated from most of the available markets, then they are essentially monopolized by local businesses. Monopoly means no competition means high prices.

>>4229419
Job #1: define "most" of America: 50%? 66%? Highest subgroup?

Job #2: define "middle class": $30k per household? $40k? $50k? Less? More?

You're asking questions that can't possibly be answered by other people here.

>>4229439
You are right though. Those things are all for Socialists. The Federal Reserve has done more to harm capitalism than any socialist revolutionary has.

>>4229449
You know what? It's funny that way. The harder I work, the luckier I get.

It's not always liberals vs. conservatives, there are also people like me who aren't on your bourgeois scale. Anarchists, Marxists, Syndicalists, etc.

The biggest capitalist myth is that the rich are rich because they worked the hardest, and the poor are poor because they're lazy slobs that haven't worked a day of honest work in their entire lives.

>>4229480
Ok lets define poor as wage slaves meaning 25k or less a year and lets assume 10% of the population is rich. The rest of the population is middle class. Give me some statistics I really want to see this though admittedly I don't know the outcome.

>>4229489
>harm capitalism in order to help people

Oh god no we wouldn't want that

move the fuck out of the blue states

red states have lower COL pretty much across the board. better low tier job opportunities too. its no coincidence all the car factories in michigan were ask for a bailout and the ones in alabama and georgia are breaking records

>>4229450
Only 20K eh? I'm walking away without owing anything. But fuck all that socialism amirite my american friends?

>>4229527
bahahahaha who the hell do you think the federal reserve has helped? bankers, politicians, and people who play the exchange rates to get rich

>>4229538
i'm walking away with a profit

i'm in the US btw

>>4229531
but don't you see those states still don't practice pure capitalism which would solve those problems by

>>4229531
The poverty rates in Southern red states are extremely high you retard.

>>4229556
they dont, but it still better than lolifornia or new york

>>4229527
you do realize that america has the best economy in the world right? along side with the best standard of living for anyone with a shit job. all because of capitalism

>>4229562
on an absolute scale, yes, there are more people below the arbitrary poverty line

it costs less to live there though

>>4229594
hahah
>along side with the best standard of living for anyone with a shit job.
Oh man this is so untrue.

>>4229594

Congratulations, you've failed history.

>>4229594
Pure Capitalism most definitely died in the 1930s, just as Marx predicted. It has been dead ever since. What we have right now is more akin to fascism.

maybe if hippie tree hugging liberals didnt try to stop wal mart from building new stores there would be food that poor people can afford

>>4229628
wal-mart avoids urban poor minorities as much as every other chain.

kill all hippie losers

>>4229628
Capitalism is the source of their ills, not liberals (who are capitalists btw.)

As it gets later, and the people who actually work for a living go to bed, this thread will continue to tilt further leftward, as bored college students with little real world experience spam it with liberal assumptions and anti-american rhetoric.

Goodnight. I'm on the east coast of America, and the spare hours of leisure time afforded me through the accumulated advantage of a lifetime of hard work and even harder choices has run out.

>>4229647

I'm a syndicalist and I'll be here for a few more hours. I work the night shift, I sit around mostly and surf the net while I wait for customers.

Wow where to begin on this thread...

Quite frankly there's so many variables to consider in a shitstorm topic like this that I'm not even going to bother. I will say that gentrification and shit like that does still exist, does make things hard, and does make success difficult. What's needed is just...more education, more revolutions of the mind, and more self-enlightenment.

>>4229320, >>4229353

>>4229032 here

Poor people move up and understand that problem isn't too little government -- it's too much government. Everything that government gets its grubby little hands on gets ruined and becomes unnecessarily expensive, especially for the poor. Public transit, public health care (the US spends the most in the world on health care per person, look what good that does), public washrooms. Poor people realize this, but most of them are stuck in this rut and either believe it's impossible to get out so they stop trying, or, less frequently, actually abuse the system for their gain. Those who try to get out tend to make it.

I still have some contact from lots of other of my immigrant friends; although many of them got into drugs or dropped out school, or both. A couple others moved up like me -- they're the ones I have the most contact with.

Also, >>4229170, I can tell you that you're tired at the end of the day whether you're rich or poor. But immigrant tradition is you eat late. My parents would be home by 6 (they both worked within walking distance), but we wouldn't have dinner until 9 or 10. We never had fast food at my house.

As you may guess from the trip, I'm better off than most people.

Financial conservatism, in both the libertarian and "conservative" corporate forms, are strangling this country. No, a "free market" will not fix it. Know what a "free market" with little to no regulation will do? Enable people who have the power that I do, but choose to wield it in a more assholish way, to get even richer at your expense. People say "Oh, well if a business did bad stuff and the consumer didn't like it, they wouldn't buy". NO. This article does a perfect example of pointing out how people don't have choices.

Do you want to know where I shop for groceries? 2 places - an independent organic co-op and market, 25 miles north of me along which there is NO public transportation, and a Whole Foods to the south of me, about 12 miles. 8 of those miles, no public transportation. If I had no vehicle and had to be back in time to pick kids up from school and walk them home or to a public bus, I could NEVER make it to either of these stores. I would be forced to shop whatever was close to me, regardless of if I approved of their products or business practice.

Look at Wal-Mart. EVERYONE hates wal-mart for some reason or another. If you have two brain cells to rub together, you hate them for their business practices. However, if wal-mart's low low prices are the only way you can feed your family this week and keep them in tube socks, then you're going to motherfucking shop at walmart, despite how they act on the world stage. You either patronize that hellish store, or you don't eat.

Is this getting through to any of you?

round up all libertarians and execute them
thats my plan

OP here
Since none of you seem to be poor or have been poor I'll explain things for you:
1.I have two take 3-5 different buses to pay all of my bills. The bus routes go through so many neighborhoods but only one or two store centers.
2.I don't go and pig out at 7-11. The most I will spend on junk food is a $0.65 soda or a $0.50 creme roll. The only people I know who pig out are middle class college kids
3.I buy my food at a store that is 2 miles away(I have to walk there) to buy fruits and vegetables. The meat here is expensive(only good place to buy meat is 10 miles away). It cost 2/3 of all my money to buy food for 2 weeks. Guess what I have to do for the next two weeks?
4.I go to a community college which is in another city(my town doesn't have a college). I can't go this semester because the money required for bus and books is 3 months salary(I don't qualify for financial aid)
5.I have never lived in a safe town or neighborhood. From my first memories my neighborhoods have had gang members or drug dealers.
6.I manage to have a few nice things but usually end up selling them to survive.

>>4229915
Fuck off, you're not op. Your writing style is completely different.

>>4229931
I am OP dumbass.

>>4229762
You don't get it. Places like Wal-Mart get away with there shit because the government gives them slack on some laws that other competitors have to abide by. If the markets could regulate themselves, there would be a whole lot less multi-national corporate empires telling the government how to act.

>>4229915

I grew up in a poor family in a poor, violent urban neighborhood and never went to high school.

My experience was completely different and I managed to be successful. A lot of my friends are still poor and lazy and bitch a lot.

Just sayin'.

>>4229969
Nice try troll
If you never went to high school you can't get a job(not even mcDonald's). I know from firsthand experience

>>4229968

And how would this be better if the government didn't stop any business from getting away with wal-mart like shit? You wouldn't have a paradise, you'd have a million wal-marts. Wal-Mart's business model is incredibly profitable, and oligarchies will form even in a totally "free market", where a couple of unscrupulous companies will lock up the market for X, by price or by other tactics.

Rather then allow everyone to act like Wal Mart, shouldn't the government just bring the hammer down on Wal-Mart like businesses and let the legit companies who "stay within the lines" operate normally?

>>4229915
And you're on the internet.

fuck off

>>4230080
Because there's NO WAY to access the internet that doesn't cost money.

Dumbass

>>4230005
The government is letting Wal-Mart get away with it. Wal-Mart, and other huge corporations, are paying off governments to get away with their shit. If there was market regulations, you would bet there would be a whole lot less corruption.

To see market regulations at work, look up Underwriter Labs.

Always remember: you can screw someone over in politics, but you can't screw someone over in business.

>>4229982
Yes you can. And you can go to college.

Make connections and use your brain.

most corporations got as powerful as they were BECAUSE of government intervention. It distorts the market and allows big-wtf corporations.

think of it this way, only the big corporations can handle the loss of profits associated with regulation. Therefore, smaller companies are harder hit.

Also, the biggest supporter of the regulations passed in the gilden age of the USA were the big companies themselves, as they knew it would weaken their competition.

Republicans/libertarians are almost always upper-middle class first world white people who gained this status through the fortunes of their birth and have no ideas about the realities of poverty or the realities of the "free market". Anything that they say about economics is literally worthless.

>>4230170
Wow where did you learn history? During the Gilded age the rich fucks who ran everything had a stranglehold on their respective industries. "Regulation" came in the form of trust-busting, which usually involved fucking them in the ass and splitting their big conglomerates apart. Silly socialistfaggots don't know anything.

>As someone who is actually poor I

No, you're not. You're not as poor as the people in the story. Those people can't afford internets.

I'm a libertarian and I make less than the average American. Enjoy being a lazy retard.

>>4230248

They can afford malt liquor and KFC, apparently.

>>4230248

There's actually a homeless guy who comes into our library just to go online. He smells like pee and he's poor as heck.

Libertarians do not believe in public libraries, they are a luxury only the rich should afford. OUR TAX DOLLARS, if you will.

>>4230264

Anyone who is libertarian, especially privileged dumbasses like yourself, do not get to call anyone "retarded". Who gives a shit about your annual income? Do you lack proper medical coverage? Daycare? Food? Water? Shelter? Do you think anyone who does is merely lazy?

>>4230270

KFC is actually pretty cheap. I am pretty sure peasants in tiny villages on the other side of the world living in dirt shacks can afford KFC,

>>4228611
Step 1: be smart
Step 2: work for a living
Step 3: make money
Step 4: profit

Smart people are favored. That, and people that aren't lazy. Should have gotten your high school and chosen a career that would help out instead of pursuing art. I have no sympathy for bottom feeders like you, OP.

>>4230300

No dumbfuck, compared to staples and foods that you cook, it is not cheap. It is very, very expensive. Rice is cheap. KFC is expensive.

Fast food is an expensive luxury. Poor people that eat fast food are stupid motherfuckers.

>>4230170

This doesn't suggest that regulations are bad, simply that the right regulations aren't being imposed because of corporations with too much money, who lobby as you said, to keep themselves in power.

If there were NO regulations, there would always be corporations with money and power without having to go through the "bother" of getting regulations that oppose them repealed, or regulations that support them passed.

This is the problem - assholes with too much money they're willing to throw around to get their way will ALWAYS exist. Removing regulations, GOOD regulations, makes it easier for them. Saying we should do away with regulation entirely because some fucktards game the system is saying we should shut down the internet to protect children from porn.

>>4230315
>Poor people that eat fast food worked two jobs and were stuck on the bus for two hours and they're goddamned tired, so let them have their shitty chicken so that for fucking once they don't have to do MORE work just to stay fed.

fix'd

>>4230286
>>4230286
>Who gives a shit about your annual income?
Obviously the faggots who say libertarians are only those who are "upper middle class." I'm clearly not near upper middle class by any measurement. Also, money buys stuff and services, which you've clearly forgotten.

>Do you lack proper medical coverage?
No. I live in a country with universal health care, and yes, I do believe a country should have universal health care.

>Daycare?
I don't have kids. And I don't plan to unless I can actually afford to raise them, unlike other people who are making even less than I am.

>Food?
No.

>Water?
No.

>Shelter?
No.

>Do you think anyone who does is merely lazy?
In a developed country, 99% of the time I'd say it's a combination of stupid and lazy.

>>4230309
Yes, wealth is distrubuted according to how worthy a person you are. This is why Paris Hilton is a better person than any cancer researcher in the world.

>>4230300

Yea, KFC literally has franchises in fucking Yemen and Zimbabwe.

>>4230329

>Obviously the faggots who say libertarians are only those who are "upper middle class." I'm clearly not near upper middle class by any measurement. Also, money buys stuff and services, which you've clearly forgotten.
Class =/= income. They are correlated, but very different.

>No. I live in a country with universal health care, and yes, I do believe a country should have universal health care.

Then I fail to see how you are libertarian and I can't imagine how you are libertarian.

>>4230315

Cooking takes time and equipment. This is what the article is getting at and what privileged fuckers do not seem to get.

kill all minority poor. fuckin trash that no one cares about.

>>4230309

Rich people profit every step of the way; poor people lose every step of the way. Poor folk work a lot more and a lot harder than rich people ever have to in their entire lives.

The only people that would even apply to are those born privileged.

>>4230364
>Class =/= income. They are correlated, but very different.

>I'm clearly not near upper middle class by any measurement.

>Then I fail to see how you are libertarian and I can't imagine how you are libertarian.
How so? Are you saying all libertarians share exactly the same values? Do you think all liberals or conservatives share exactly the same values?

>>4230402

Wait, why minority poor? They actually contribute to culture/decent food and they don't have the same "I'll live beyond my means" entitlement complex that poor white people do.

>>4230385

No. This is bullshit. I grew up in a poor family. My mother didn't work and my father sold drugs.

I fucking cooked. You can buy pots and pans at good will for a buck each. You can buy rice and meat for very little money. Fuck you. You're probably in the middle class and have never actually been poor. You don't know what you're talking about. Stop. It.

Like it or not, the world needs poor people. People can't all be equal or who's going to do shit for us? Just be glad you're not one of them.

>>4230414

I am from the US. If you support UHC then I have no idea what else to say to you. In my nation UHC, or even coming close to suggesting something like UHC but only for the extremely poor/sick is called "socialism" and is one of the largest threats to the free market imaginable. The majority of the workers support it but since government is in the hands of capitalists, we will never see that type of thing.

The cultural gap here is so wide I don't even know what libertarianism looks like where you live.

>>4230426
Drug money's good money. You don't know what it's like to be poor and principled.

>>4230426

You are correct, I have never been poor so understand that I am going to be a little more objective than you are and I will be less inclined to assume all poor people own stoves/have stay at home mommies/free time enough to cook and go shopping.

> Why do libertarians and republicans

yeah, because they're the same thing, right?

stopped reading

>>4230583

They both believe the free market fairy will solve everyones problems (or claim that it will, knowing damn well it only allows rich people to get richer)--besides the military and the police department of course--those are required to get people to comply with the free market.

Two sides of the same mountain of shit.

>>4230583
If he thought they were the same thing, he'd have only mentioned one of them. Instead, he named them both as parties with similar values in regards to the subject at hand.

Not that a libertarianfag would know what words mean.

>>4230506
>even coming close to suggesting something like UHC but only for the extremely poor/sick is called "socialism" and is one of the largest threats to the free market imaginable

I think this is why America fails. Then again, the only other country I've been to is Canada, and that was only for a couple days.

>>4230204
and that was a bandaid fix that didnt do any thing in the long run. for example, the big demon of the day was steel, and that industry wasn't truly changed until the advent of mini mills.

>>4230603
America became a prosperous nation BECAUSE of our once proud free market system. it's because of our shitty socialist tendencies our economy's gone so downhill. You dummies are so caught up against fighting the "rich man" you've sacrificed everything from your rights, to economic prosperity, and sovereignty as we know it. If you actually think these past decades have been an improvement then move to Europe, you'll creme yourself.

>>4230667
I swear to god it's like you free marketfags make up history as you go along. Are you from an alternate time line or something?

>>4230667

Yes, the Rockefeller and Carnagie era was great, wasn't it? Taminy Hall was just fabulous.

Laissez-faire capitalism, the closest thing to a "libertarian" economic system we've tried, was a fucking disaster. That's why we now have laws against child labor, and paying people in company store dollars so they're indentured to you.

>>4230702
lol using Rockefeller, the man who founded the Council on Foreign Relations, to support your case. Nice try.

>>White college kid 1: I know everything.
>>White college kid 2: No, I do.
>>Troll: WARGLEBARGLE

>>4230744
4chan, a 1 act play

>>4230730
Red herring much?

Fuck the rich, fuck libertarians, fuck republicans, fuck anyone who calls the poor "lazy" for not making more $$.

The rich are leeches who have never had to work an honest day in their lives. They absorb billions of dollars in the profits of the workers, and are the real "lazy" ones. Desk job? Vacation/sick days? Weekends? 9-5 working hours? Connections? But they can't be lazy, hell no! They have enough money for an ass-massaging chair! No man who can afford one of those could possibly be lazy, amirite?

It's all those poor folks and their laudromats and their KFCs and their two or more thankless, grinding jobs. If they weren't so damn lazy maybe they could afford Chemo for their kid or maybe if they weren't so dumb they could get one of those millions of scholarships they give out to any poor fuck with a B grade average and fighting spirit. Hurp durp durf.

And then libertarians wonder why only a bunch of stupid white frat boys will vote for them.

>>4230702
Those "powerful evil people" you set out against are the ones manipulating you sheep into the New World Order.

>>4230752
The true beauty of it is that you can make it as many acts as you want, just repeat the scene over again.

>>4230744
You must be white college kid 1.

>>4230754
since you're obviously oblivious to what's really going on in the world i guess I'll have to spoon feed it to you. It's groups like the CFR and Bilderberg aim to lead you rubes into a new socialist america. Thanks to the overwhelming ignorance that is america, their efforts have proved quite effective. Stop sucking Obama's dick and wake the fuck up.

>>4230730
So? Are you surprised to find out that a Capitalist was involved in the creation of the CFR?

>>4230817
LOL That is fucking hilarious. The NWO is a Capitalist conspiracy you retard.

>>4230823
> doesn't know the difference between free market and corporate oligarchy

I could sit back and refute you sheep all night.

>>4230762

Ummm...haven't you heard? Don't have kids if you can't afford any possible chemotherapy sessions. Even if you have a middle class job with health care, you still can't have kids because what if you are laid off or have your benefits sliced?

The only people who deserve families are rich people with enough family connections they could pay for that shit out of pocket. What, government safety nets? For those stupid, lazy subhumans? Hahaha....fuck no! It may take away from our nation's military and then where will all our FREEDOM go?

Damn, Libertopia is closer than you think.

>>4230841
Yeah, that's why we're becoming so socialist... because of capitalism. I can't believe this shit.

/facepalm

>>4230848
That's funny because neither can I. Corporate Oligarchies are inevitable with Capitalism.

>>4230865
Please explain how America is becoming more "socialist"? Are workers seizing control over the means of production? Because that's all Socialism means.

>>4230817

Listen kiddo, I'm not one of the proles. These idiots are not magical communists. If there is in fact a "NWO" its filled with corporate masterminds that need lots of dumb, poor workers to exploit. This is the opposite of communism.

This is the only between republicans and libertarians is that libertarians are honest about their retardation so only the most privileged of people will even vote for them; republicans add shit about "foreign communist menace USA USA" and "fuck the gays" to squeeze out the "redneck" vote and actually win elections.

Both need to be eliminated BAMN, if you will.

>>4230913
Democrats and American Liberals aren't much better. Both parties are capitalist owned and controlled.

Fuck the poor, fuck socialists, fuck democrats, fuck anyone who calls the rich "selfish" for making more $$.

The poor are leeches who have never wanted to work an honest day in their lives. They absorb billions of dollars in taxes from actual workers, and are the real "selfish" ones. Pushing? Pimping? Fathering 6 kids with 4 different women? 11-5 dealing hours? Gangs? But they can't be selfish, hell no! They have enough money for colt .45 liquor and crack cubes! No man who can afford one of those could possibly support their kids (and stop them from growing up to be criminals), amirite?

It's all those rich folks and their job creating businesses and their technological innovations and their two or more thankless, grinding jobs. If they weren't so damn selfish maybe they could afford to be there for their kids or maybe if" the man" wasn't such an evil racist sexist fascist imperialist peeg dog they could get one of those millions of scholarships at a community college the state provides to any poor fuck with a D grade average. Hurp durp durf.

And then socialists wonder why only a bunch of fruity college hipsters will vote for them.

>>4230938
>The rich are leeches who have never wanted to work an honest day in their lives.

Fixed that for you. They are called the "working class" for a reason you fucking bourgeois faggot.

>>4230883
>>4230884
All these hip liberal socialist leaders only seek to manipulate you as a means to an end. What Obama is doing now is the same exact thing Bush did. Since Obama is seen as the "good guy," he's free do push pretty much whatever he wants on us with little to no suspicion population.
This whole left-right paradigm is a scam that has worked out extremely well for them. Look no further than this thread, anyone who criticizes the left is a crazy far right conservative. It doesn't matter that I strongly criticized Bush because back then I was just a "crazy left wing hippie." Understand the people in power, stop getting your news from TV, and place a little more value on your liberty.

Socialism or not, capatilist systems will always win at te end. The soviet union broke up partially because of the demand for consumer goods. Modern europe is what it is by the exportation of American coporate and commercial culture.

>>4230961
with little to no suspicion from the population.*

>>4230961
True socialists despise Obama. He's in the same pockets the Bush administration was in.

>>4230931

Yea, I fully admit that too, sadly enough. Democrats are in the hands of the same group of business owners and throw out different catchphrases to pick up the voters that Republicans have alienated. They are both so right wing it is funny/depressing to hear the word "socialist" get thrown around as a smear word against the Democrats. I wish we had a socialist party with some actual power.

>>4230884
> If there is in fact a "NWO" its filled with corporate masterminds that need lots of dumb, poor workers to exploit

That's why you need an active and informed population who understand the Constitution as well as their rights. Information is the light that conquers even the darkest space. If you can't be bothered to know your rights, you don't deserve to have them in the first place.

Focusing on what an individual in this scenario is capable of is bullshit.

The world needs people to work crappy jobs.
Oh sure, any ONE person can escape from it, but those millions of jobs need to be filled, they will always need to be filled.

Poverty isn't a disease that can be irradicated, its a designated part of society.
Saying that the people in the situation should be treated this poorly, simply because any given ONE of them could escape from it (quickly to be replaced) is bullshit.

Socialism ~ Communism

Socialism is "from each according to their ability, to each according to their DEEDS," Communism is "from each according to their ability to each according to their NEEDS."

>>4230938
>Pushing? Pimping? Fathering 6 kids with 4 different women? 11-5 dealing hours? Gangs?

These represent a tiny minority of the poor but are exaggerate by libertarians/republicans to dehumanize the working classes. (it helps them sleep better at night thinking the people who go hungry are the gangsters and pimps and drug dealers--oh wait those people are actually the ones who make money)

>Desk job? Vacation/sick days? Weekends? 9-5 working hours? Connections?

This is shit that almost every rich person has.

>>4231005

"The uneducated literally do not deserve human rights, don't complain when they are unjustly imprisoned or silenced or have their votes "misplaced"!"

*is human shit*
*is every liberpublican, ever*

>>4230978
> True socialists despise Obama.
> True socialists

Socialism was a scam to begin with. It was started by corrupt European elites; everyone from Rockefeller, to Roosevelt, to Rothschild, etc. and other controlled banking institutions. These were the same people who would form everything from the World Bank, to the League of Nations/UN, to the EU. Their aimed goal is to abolish all nation states in favor of an all powerful world government nanny state which seeks to control every aspect of our lives. And of course, it's all going to happen in the name of security and progress.

>>4231091

You have no idea what socialism is and you sound a bit insane. hth.

>>4231062
all I'm sensing is more left-right butthurt frustration, come back after you let go of your foolish brainwashed nonsense.

Facilitating the ability of the poor to succeed in life sounds like a smart move economically. Lower crime, larger potential workforce, etc etc.

How bitter do you have to be to have contempt for helping people live better lives? I'm sorry you had to work hard to get where you are all on your own (or had your parents pay your way to success), but that doesn't mean its the best or only way.

>>4231121
socialism is nothing more than a scam that'll never happen. you're all like animals chasing a carrot tied to a stick. and guess who's holding that stick...

and i don't care if i sound crazy, it's a fucked up world. part of the reason it's so bad is because of people who know what's going on but turn the other way and choose ignorance. indifference and cowardice factor just as much as greed and corruption. speaking the truth in a time of deception is a revolutionary act. the problem is the truth is often too much for the average person to comprehend.

>>4231182
You forgot to mention the liberal conspiracy.

>>4231125

Very very few rich "came that way on their own". They all have some anecdotes about how they had it tough, but its either a total fucking fabrication or they hide all the privileges they did have.

>>4231125
No offense, but people like you are one of the easiest to exploit. You care about others, which is good, but you're naive. You want to think people in control care about the poor and want to improve the quality of life for everyone, but it's just not happening. This utopia pipedream where there are no poor people or corruption is never going to happen.

It's almost like telling a kid Santa Claus doesn't exist. Does it make you feel better if he did? Sure, but it won't make a difference. This is why limited government is the only option. If history has taught you anything, it's that your rights simply cannot be trusted in the hands of rich corrupt men. We as a society should only strive to provide an environment where the possibility of success and achievement is equal. Whether or not you take advantage of that possibility and potential is up to you, and only you.

I'm sorry you frown upon hard work, but that is simply inevitable. Americans have never been afraid to work for their success which is something I take great pride in.

>>4231266
im sorry you think hard work is what makes people rich :(

If you hate libertarianism you are just a jealous faggot who hates to actually do anything and cannot make the mental connection that taking someones money, even if government sanctioned is stealing.

>>4228611

Gas fucking costs alot because they pull it out of the ground and there is less and less of it. It has also gone up because all that paper they print in Washington makes purchasing power drop. Fuck you if you can't get to a job, die off for all i care.

Survival of the fucking fittest you retard.

Protip: the free market is not a fact, it's an idea created and refined by moneyed interests.

>>4231354

Lies. The market happens spontaneously. Man just uses government to fuck with it.

>>4231334
>Fuck you if you can't get to a job, die off for all i care.

Thanks for the offer, but I would much rather just kill you and take your stuff.

>>4231334
lmfao, you're probably the kind of person who believes they don't owe society anything, and consider all taxes you pay as 'stolen money'.

>>4231266
Uh huh. I didn't say anything about looking down on hard work. If anything, you are naive to be honest. You assume that everyone has the option of working hard and getting somewhere in life. They don't. Some people fall into a bad crowd. Some people have to work at a shitty job to support their family and don't have the option of toughing it out. Hands off approaches like you seem to recommend is what creates many bad neighborhoods and turns many young people into gang members/drug dealers/ whatever. Its what causes a lot of societies ills.

I know that a perfect Utopia can not exist. And I do not expect the government to facilitate a grand life for all poor people. In fact, I never even mentioned the government in my post anywhere. But YOU can help the poor and underprivileged. YOU can volunteer at youth centers. YOU can work to create more affordable necessities. You don't have to of course. You don't have to sit in your castle spending most of your time being angry at the government for taxing you and your hard earned money either. People can help other people.

When a person assumes that the only way to aid their fellow man is to rely on the government, and will not because they have no faith in their government, I find that pretty sad. If people plain don't want to waste their precious time on such things, then whatever. Nothing much I can say to that. Just stay the hell out of the way of people who want to help, and don't bring them down with you.

>>4231363
>market
>spontaneous

8/10 near-rage

http://abelits.livejournal.com/40138.html

Not the same level of poverty, but closer to something 4channers can understand, and still relevant.

>>4231266

Many socialists are for limited government, or even no government at all (most anarchist movements have been socialist, for example). Limited government and capitalism are not synonyms and only retarded libertarians think they are.

There might always be poor, but there is no reason for the poor to be treated like disposable commodities for the rich to wipe their asses with. Fuck that.

>>4231365
Ill kill your first. Since you have nothing it seems, we will be better off without you prowling and stealing others property.

>>4231370
I owe it to the organically evolving society. Not the distorted, subsidizing artificial one. I have never gotten any government aid. If my parents hadn't been able to get me a computer I would be a idiot like most who come out of public school.

>>4231403

Republicanism and capitalism are like PB&J.

>>4231399
>Most of you (Americans) believe that life in USSR was terrible because people complained all the time about it.

Well that and the brutal genocide of it's own people and good ol Cold War propaganda helped too.

>>4231403

In a free society the poor do not have to consent to work for rich. They can start with raw materials and build themselves up. It is just easiest for people to contract with the rich.

>>4231428

Agreed. People starving in the countryside, grain rotting in the silos. Ahh the good ol days of communism.

>>4231411
Oh, im sorry, there are 'fake' societies now? Fine, i'll go with it.
Your response is what was to be expected, the fact that the government has never sent you a cash check in the mail leads you to believe you owe nothing.

>>4231201
they all trolled as liberals just as you are all getting trolled by Obama today. Voting for national health care, gun laws, you're all signing your rights away to the worse groups ever spawned.
>>4231282
First of all, I never said the word rich. If that's what you want in life that's your goal, not mine.
I never said this system was great which is why I advocated the free market system we once had. The same system rich elites feared. Why else would they push legislation to change America into a socialist corporate oligarchy. These corporations took over the government because they fear competition and seek complete control for themselves. Limited government monitored by an intelligent population is the most realistic and ideal society we can hope for. But this would require you to get off your ass and actually care about your best interest.
>>4231372
I never said you were a fucking socialist, all I said was it's people like you who get trolled by them the most into doing their bidding. I favor a free market system because it is the most ideal and realistic situation we can hope for. My belief is there's no social issue our people cannot solve themselves. This is exactly why I don't buy into government programs.
I'm not a materialistic person. If i ever made an excess amount of money i would do my best to contribute and improve as many lives as i could. i believe there are many people out there who feel the same why which is why i believe people can solve their own problems without intervention.

>>4231428
The problem with the USSR is that it became more fascist and less communist. Also while war may help capitalist economies, it totally wrecks communist ones.

>>4231459
As opposed to signing our privacy away under the old administration?

>>4231411
You may kill me. But can do you have enough firepower to take out the all those that need what you have but do not have the means to purchase it?

>>4231445

Communist Russia wasn't pure socialism or anything, but it was far better than capitalist Russia after or czarist Russia before.

>>4231471
They're both sides of the same fucking coin. Why the hell are you defending people who serve the same elites the Bush Admin catered to? The fact that I criticized Obama automatically makes me a Bush fanboy, right?

>>4231445

Fake is much different from artificial. I am more than happy to pay my local taxes (city, county and state). They are who I am a part of. The Federal government has strayed and fucks things up much more than they help it. You are delusional if you think otherwise.

>>4231459
>socialist corporate oligarchy

Wow what a gross misuse of terms. Seriously, I am in awe of your stupidity.

>>4231496
Jumped the gun, sorry.

>>4231481

Even if you get to me you will just eat my food and then what will you do? You will be back to square one. Leech.

>>4231499
Socialism is like religion. Sure it preaches great ideals but at the end of the day it's just a means to manipulate chumps like yourself. The pope and other high ranking priests gain control from generous and oblivious pawns who want to believe in good just like you people try and to believe in your own idealism.

Religion should be judged by its practice rather than its theory, so Socialism must be judged by its practice not its rhetoric.

>>4231508
You're damn right you're sorry, chubbs ;)

>>4231539
Lets never fight again ;_;

I don't know if this is the right thread to ask... but what did you guys think of Obama Deception? I'm in need of opinions as I'm not sure myself.

>>4231522

So should lassize-faire capitalism/libertarianism/corporatism etc..

Somehow I think countries like Denmark and Sweden are a pretty good example of democratic socialism. You want your libertarian paradise? We tried it years ago and kids hands were getting cut off in factories, while people were indentured to a company store.

Hell, look at China - few regulations in their markets are making some people very rich. They're communist in name only. You want your libertarian paradise, enjoy living downstream from a plant dumping benzene into your water.

>>4231566
> Using China as an example of libertarianism.

LOL oh, wow...

The clerk suggests that he take his cash off the conveyor belt, because if she moves the belt the money will be carried into the machinery. Then the money will be gone.

LOL SERIOUSLY?

>>4231566

If you pollute my private property against my will, you are violating one of the main beliefs of libertarianism. Simple: You fuck up my mailbox, you have to fix it. You as a parent do not need to let your kids crawl into a loom and lose a hand.

You are referring to anarchy, where there are no rules. There are plenty of rules that apply to Libertarianism.

>>4231574

Made me laugh too.

>>4231566
DID YOU REALLY JUST PUT LIBERTARIANISM AND CORPORATISM TOGETHER AS IF THEY WERE THE SAME THING? HOLY SHIT YOU FAIL.

hrm... nice counterpoint.

>>4231605
hahahaha you think that in a libertarian world people would be punished for polluting hahahahahahahaha you're an idiot

laugh 2 keep from crying

peace

>>4228676
L2ECONOMICS
Competition will not occur in the free market, as the free market is not free. Large corporations do not like to compete and will not compete. Get up to date on your economic theory, idiot.

Libertarianism's ideal government is a police state, but not in the civil-liberties violating way we normally think about it. To them, the government only exists to enforce its laws and to defend the property of property owners.

>>4231605
That guy has obviously no idea what libertarianism is, there's no point reasoning with him. I'm glad there's more of us, though :3

They aren't taking advantage of poor people, they're taking advantage of stupid people. It just so happens that for some mysterious reason, idiots with no financial sense or self control often find themselves poor.

Example: guy who pays 10% every month to use some random service. Get a state ID card for very little money, go to bank, open free account, pay bills for price of stamp. Ooooh, magical!

libertarians are the true socialists.

socialists are the true fascists.

remember, the nazi government was a socialist one, but the liberal media doesn't want you to remember that.

>>4231630
Large corporations were the ones who distorted the market with their corrupt lobbying and legislation. We had a free market once and it worked so well America's prosperity became the envy of the world. Free market was not the problem. We have nothing to blame but corruption and our own ignorance.

>>4231574

Economically, he's pretty much right.

my biggest problem with poor people is that they have too many fucking kids?

you think I'm racist? FUCK YOU

it doesn't take a genius to put on a condom, and it doesn't take a good education to figure out that kids are a financial drain.

if you want to move up, you gotta make sacrifices.

STOP FUCKING SIXTEEN YEAR OLDS YOU FUCKING THUGS GODDAMNIT

>>4231017
You're right. But who says the poor have to live terrible and unhappy lives.

>>4231660
Libertarians are just free market capitalists capitalists. Socialists want the worker to own the means of production. And fascists want everyone to be devoted to the state.

>>4231665

Large corporations are the event of a "free market". Success breeds corruption, if not constrained by regulation.

>>4230702 taminy hall the fucking daydream of the lovers of the ogliopoly....corporatism at its worst

corporatism is a set of priveledges given by the state to companys that protects them from capitalists

>>4231660
Its not brought up a lot (even by the right wing media) because its irrelevant. You think because you can tie Hitler and a concept together, that the concept should be condemned outright.

It wasn't socialism that forced the west to intervene in the Nazi agenda.

>>4231703

meh, i don't know all the political definitions. all i know is if the state is in charge of making sure people are doing what it thinks the people needs, and the peoples ideas of what they want is secondary, something is wrong.

social darwinism and all that.

>>4231017
We need robot slaves.

>>4231703

If they didn't front the capital to start the enterprise why do they get ownership?

>>4231627

You are fucking idiot. You need to do some research.

>>4231722

no, its because hitler was able to establish a government that had complete control over the welfare of its people, and the way they thought they would bring supreme glory, power and happiness to the germans ended up pissing off the people that were in their way.

I did not get to go to college, but my taxes subsidize others attendance. WTF is that shit?

Fuck you welfare state bitches.

>>4231686
The fact that millions of necessary jobs trade 8+ hours a day of hard labor, and in return provide only enough money to live poorly, guarantees it.

As long as that remains the truth (which unless there is expansive social change, it always will) society will remain inundating with disenfranchised and desperate people.

Love all the snippy little comments from little turds that don't know a damn thing about what they're talking about, 4chan doesn't lend itself well to serious debate/discussion.

Like my father always said, "I'd rather be poor here in the U.S then poor in any other country in the world."

>>4231796

This is a case where moral people must vote with their pocket book and not support businesses that do not pay the COL. Walmart does not force you to buy their goods, THE GENERAL PUBLIC do not care about the workers. It is not just the corporation.

>>4231605

MOTHERFUCKER

FIRST OFF, LIBERTARIANS ARE, WERE, AND WILL ALWAYS BE ANARCHISTS. FAGGOT AMERICAN "LIBERTARIANS" DID NOT REFER TO THEMSELVES AS LIBERTARIANS UNTIL THE MID-LATE 20TH CENTURY WHILE ANARCHISTS HAVE USED THE TERM SINCE THE 1800'S.

LASTLY, YOU STUPID ASS, ANARCHY IS NOT CHAOS, ANARCHY HAS RULES. LEARN A FUCKING THING FOR ONCE, YOU BRAINLESS DICK BANDIT

>>4231791
I don't have a car, and my taxes pave the roads.
I don't have a child, but my taxes pay school teachers.

Why does the argument of
"i pay X and i never got Y but my money is used for Z"
only pop up when it comes to helping the poor?

THATS HOW TAXES AND PUBLIC SPENDING WORK GOD DAMNIT

>>4231825

Bad news, your father is fucking dumb and you are too.

>>4231855

Main Entry:
Anarchy

1 a: absence of government b: a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority c: a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government2 a: absence or denial of any authority or established order b: absence of order : disorder

THis means there are no rules YOU FAGGOT.

>>4231860
>>4231860

Multiple wrongs make a right then huh? Idiot.

>>4231844
...
If people stopped buying the overpriced shit and services the corporations are shilling the people would prosper but the economy would tank and people would be out of jobs.

>>4231906

The dictionary is the #1 source for all political and socio-economic theory information.

>>4231906
You simply do not understand, roboanon.
You see, him and his friends smoke pot in his garage and talk about Anarchy.

If you don't share their ill-conceived personalization you just don't 'understand' Anarchy.

LOL at the typical White behavior ITT. Half of you want to be the brown person's White knight, while the other half is totally ignorant about poverty, history, economics, and political theories.

commentblockednotoriginalmewtedfororiginalcontent
>>4231660
> libertarians are the true socialists.
I would appreciate an explanation.
>>4231666
No, he couldn't be any further from the truth.
>>4231705
Libertarianism still has regulations. We still have basic rules, otherwise it would simply be anarchy. Like I keep saying, we need to reintroduce free market capitalism and discard the laws the corrupt oligarchy have established if we are to return to a fair and competitive economic system.
>>4231819
I love all the trolls who chime in and criticize others without contributing actual opinions of their own.
If my fucking comments are still unoriginal for this board it's because I've been saying the same shit over and over while all the edgy socialist college kids ramble on about how they're the only ones who care about others.

>>4231922

We will all have to suffer yes, but we will end up better off. The period of readjustment will sting, I agree.

So you propose we just keep the shoulder dislocated instead of enduring the pain of resetting it, letting it heal and then being good again?

Have you guys noticed how the health insurance companies are whoring their services now?
Every other commercial is an advertisement for affordable good health care.
Could it be they are trying to keep people from wanting or even thinking about a UHC system?
I think they see the writing on the wall and are scared shitless of it.

>>4231945
Brotip: nobody cares about reality, it's about defending the view that most comforts them.

>>4231916
Multiple wrongs??
I pay school teachers that i dont use, BUT I DON'T CONSIDER THIS WRONG.
Nobody considers this wrong
Atleast nobody that isn't completely fucking retarded.

Why don't i mind that i pay for roads i don't drive on and teachers that don't teach me?

Because in the long run my life is better because those roads and teachers are available to the public EVEN THOUGH THEY DON'T DIRECTLY BENEFIT ME.

I dont mind paying for teachers because i don't want a wave of ignorant children.
I don't mind paying now so they don't mug me later.

I don't mind paying for the roads because they are necessary, even if i don't personally use them. I benefit from their utility regardless.

I think the same way about aiding the less fortunate.

Facts about the US Gov't:
-They are incapable of running a school system(just look at the disparity between gov't run primary+secondary education and mostly privatized post-secondary education)
-As it is, they spend more per capita on health care than countries with national health care programs
-They spend more for nearly everything they purchase(e.g. $100 hammers)

Now, how can someone believe they could run a proper UHS? The high cost of health care in the US is largely due to litigation insurance that hospitals and doctors must have because so many idiots would sit on a jury and go "Oh that poor family, through no fault of the doctors did their family member die but we should award them millions of dollars for their pain."

>>4232046
The difference between government run schools and private schools are funding, if you think there is any inherently better thing beyond that about private schools you are delusional.

>>4231445

There was no starvation in USSR since the end of WWII. When there was starvation, it was a combination of massive natural disaster, inexperienced government and shitty condition of technology. Of course, hacks like Robert Conquest milked it for all it was worth.

>>4232071
The difference between privately run schools and government schools is organization. Public schools are run by the unions because there is a lack of market pressures. Private schools would go out of business if they made the same kinds of concessions public schools do to the unions.

>>4232095

You keep thinking that.

"inexperienced government", nice. Way to go for spinning things for central planning.

>>4231954
Yes you're right.
There needs to be some new ideology put in place to keep people living well and not have to rely on certain things.
>>4232101
Yes and many of those private schools are nothing more than paid daycare centers. They usually leave those schools being academically inferior to the public school.

>>4232046
Solution: make medical malpractice a criminal offense, and disallow all civil lawsuits related to it. No insurance will help you if you show really criminal negligence, but you will be shielded from minor and frivolous crap.

>>4230329

>I do believe a country should have universal health care.

Then you're not a libertarian then, you stupid fuck.

>>4231959
lol no universal health care is exactly what the elite want. This current health care system by itself is a huge scam and uhc only bodes as a worse option. real health does not require such expensive policies.
We live in a world of take this pill and don't worry about the side effects. the drug industry is one of the most corrupt institutions in the world.
They make billions of billions of dollars looking at people dead in the eye and lying to them. every politician, liberal and conservative, knows this but they won't say shit because guess who funds them? this goes way back to the Pure Food and Drug Act of 1906. Look this shit up if you don't believe me. It was a front to assure all your food was well regulated and checked for quality, standards, etc. Instead what really happened was the food industry started putting chemicals on nearly everything to make consumers fatter, more addicted, and sick. Corrupt laws like these are why the drug industry and health care industry thrive.

>>4232140
>Yes and many of those private schools are nothing more than paid daycare centers. They usually leave those schools being academically inferior to the public school.
What are you basing this on?

>>4232169
We do not need a new health care structure, we need new laws that don't require farmers to inject bovine growth hormone into their livestock. we need to get rid of these corrupt laws like the ones that make it nearly impossible to grow organic pesticide free crops. This goes on in nearly every industry from the hamburgers you eat to the milk you drink. even the fucking water, which was once clean, is now laced with poisonous chemicals and industrial waste.
Health care is not an issue when you understand everything that makes it so expensive. universal health care is exactly what the rich elite want, they want you to but into their system and take their drugs and unnecessary surgery. Every other commercial is just another brainwashing scheme to take this pill and your life will completely turn around. We need to change that culture and shed light on the truth on what's going on in the food and drug industries. Nutrition is the main factor in long term health. Most diseases that plague our society are because we're deficient in nutrients that were once plentiful and cheap. Natural food has nearly been exterminated from the modern man's diet. This was no fluke, this was a calculated plot. Profitable treatment drugs and surgery have now replaced natural remedies that actually cure people of their symptoms. Do a little research for yourself, you might be surprised.
Government intervention is never the answer, folks. In my experience, I have never seen a situation that required something a libertarian structured government could not handle.

>>4232133

Central planning failed:

1931-1932 -- famine.

Central planning worked well for:

The rest of 30's (unprecedented growth of industry).

40's and WWII (and winning it).

50's-80's (well-developed economy, not a single crisis).

Without any central planning:

1991 -- dissolution of the union.

1992-1998 -- massive, expanding crisis.

1998 -- crisis at its peak, default, shitstorm.

Ok, I'm gonna spell this out. The Federal Reserve is pretty cool, and here's why: The existence of monetary policy. Having a central institution that can control monetary policy is a really good thing, because having control over monetary policy is crucial to taking apart recessions and smoothing out the business cycle a little bit.

Consider governmental economic policy in two ways: Monetary, and Fiscal. Congress controls fiscal, the Fed controls monetary policy. Both of them can be either expansionary, contractionary, or neutral. Obviously, you only want neutral policy when the economy is functioning well, so we'll disregard that for now. Expansionary policies are policies that result in a short-term boost to GDP, and contractionary policies are those that result in short-term decreases in GDP. Ok, got it? Let's move on.

>>4231825
Your father is ignorant and stupid.

Unless he meant "poor American that moved to another country".

>>4232237
Let's say you're in a recession. Oh shit, GDP is falling faster than the sky, people are losing jobs, everything is going to shit. Natural processes are going to fix everything eventually through deflation, but that involves people's wages being slashed (note: real income will stay the same because deflation = dropping prices), however people can't see the big picture, and prices tend to be "sticky", so there's a lot of pains that pop up. Policy, however, can help bridge that gap and make everything a lot easier. Now you have two choices of expansionary policy: monetary and fiscal.

Fiscal policy means that the government increases it's spending. It'll get the money from somewhere (past surpluses LOL), mostly likely borrowing. In order to get a cash-starved economy to buy treasury bills, you have to raise the interest rates (remember, we're assuming no monetary policy, this is just fiscal policy) on said bonds, which results in interest rates across the economy going up.

>>4232250
Now it's difficult for businesses to get the loans they need to keep functioning, as interest rates go up. Not to mention, the infusion of cash will raise aggregate demand, meaning that not only will GDP rise, but so will prices. Remember your supply and demand graphs? It's that, exactly. So now you have inflation, rising interest rates, but the GDP looks pretty good. Automatic adjustment will take over after the policy is completed, the economy will return to full employment, and you're left with inflation and higher equilibrium interest rates. Great.

Now say you used monetary policy instead. The Fed lowers interest rates by selling off US Treasury bonds. As the interest rate goes down, the cost of investment goes down, too. In other words, businesses will find it cheaper to get loans to function, they'll be able to use credit to make it through tougher times. The investment portion of GDP demand will rise, leading to overall greater aggregate demand, which produces inflation. However, you now have -lower- interest rates. Lower interest rates are correlated directly to an economies performance - things just run smoother when the cost of money is low.

>>4232262
In other words, if we didn't have the Fed, monetary policy would be geometrically more difficult to manage. It would be unusable much of the time, as it's counter to fiscal policy in many situations (meaning Congress wouldn't want to use it), and the actual process of trying to target federal fund interest rates requires constant care, constant monitoring of the economy, something which Congress is not set up to do. Without the Fed, you can kiss monetary policy goodbye, and it's the single most important weapon we have to fight recession.

>>4232189
Personal experience.
>>4232207
Really? I think a recreation of the Health care system from the ground up excluding most of the frivolous pill popping and taking over of the FDA in interests of public health would be a great Idea.

>>4232141

Central planning fucks shit up:

1931-1932 -- famine.

Central planning prints and throws money at everything:

The rest of 30's (artificial growth).

40's and WWII (lend lease from USA, fucked without a free nation).

50's-80's (artificial economy, print money and propagandize to avoid crisis).

After enough time had passed and people had been thoroughly stripped of the capacity to fend for themselves:

1991 -- throwing money on the fire to keep warm fails.

1992-1998 -- people struggling to get their shit back together.

1998 -- OMG the last 70 years really fucked us up.

>>4232207
finally;
Americans are the fattest nation in the world for a reason. When people come here from other countries they gain weight despite retaining their normal eating habits. Why is this? The main factor is our quality of food. It's no mere coincidence. The FDA and other medical institutions never talk about natural cures or raise awareness on organic food. If they did it would mean less business and funding for them and their self stroking research. Cancer, for example, is a deficiency disease. We lack the nutrients in our modern diets because the required nutrients have been replaced with chemicals. This lack of proper nutrients are what cause cancer as well as many other unnecessary illnesses. this current system we have is extremely profitable and would only get worse if hillary clinton and the rest of those faggot progressives get their way. they dont want you to be healthy lol who are you people kidding?

4232277
Im the same person retard, my comments were too long. did you even read the goddamn post?

>>4232329
>Americans are the fattest nation

http://www.infoplease.com/world/statistics/obesity.html
Whut?

>>4232275

If you like the fed and eat their bullshit, you are a fucking fool. Do some reading.

End the Fed.

>>4232275
The main problem with what you've laid out is that it is very short term in scope. Yes it smooths out recessions but it begins building a false economy which is based not on the value of a real, hard currency and increases the chance of recessions happening. Another danger of this sort of monetary policy is what happened in the 1970's:Stagflation. Say the fed lowers the interest rate to 0 or near there, yet resources remain extremely scarce the economy does not recover but instead you maintain the lack of jobs but prices rise meaning that real wages drop.

>>4232350

lol using the WHO as your sauce, you can judge stats like this based on any number of biased qualities. Not only does obesity today means something much different 50 years ago, but they probably also used per capita as part of their data. Anyway, not only are we one of the highest according to your cute little chart, but as a population we easily host the most amount or overweight and obese in total. You could either beat around the bush and make excuses or you could research for yourself and do something about it.

>>4232237

Not only did we have a monetary policy before the federal reserve, but they are the ones who have instigated nearly every economic crisis we've ever had. Why the fuck would you advocate them, don't you know the people who run it? They're among the most corrupt fucks in the world, and you sit here and call them cool...

>>4232317

Wow! Americans attribute to USSR what their own government is doing.

How can you have "artificial" economy unless you are US who prints dollars to throw around because OPEC still uses them exclusively for oil trade? The whole point of USSR economy was to run the country as a nonprofit, so inflation and credit bubbles would not benefit anyone, but volume of production would.

And now, let us go back to our porn and relationshit threads forgetting this rage even happened.

being "poor" anymore means you have plenty of food, your own place to live, a means of transportation, welfare, etc.

contrast with being poor 100, 200, and 500 years ago

>>4232462
Thats what being poor means for SOME in AMERICA.
You don't think people starve to death in this day and age?

This is a test. If this post makes it to the thread, my mute will be complete!

This article should be titled, "Many poor people are stupid". Seriously, check cashing instead of a bank? Paying by money order? No bonus card at the supermarket? Jesus!

The did get the "buses fucking suck" part right, but most of the article seemed to me to be about the dumb decisions poor people make. Being poor sucks, but if you are a dumbass your poverty will suck much worse. There are real issues of poverty, and it really can be a trap that's hard to escape, but this article sure as hell doesn't show much of that. It shows that many poor people are dumb shits, which totally undermines any sympathy for the poor or any deeper look into the causes of poverty.

>>4232462
Tell that to the legions of homeless people here on Oahu. Fucking christ. Yeah, people aren't starving in the streets, that's a major improvement, but it's not something to brag about when we spend TRILLIONS bailing out banks and insurance companies. The priorities are fucked.

ultimately most of you are too young to realize the truth and depth of what the reality of the situation is.

i put the blame squarely on the government for creating these ghettos. now where's the reparations to fix the disparity?

(in b4 racistrage)

>>4232570
Maybe because people don't want to open a bank account and instead want to keep their money.

Hai guiz I'm a white privileged college kid that knows exactly how society works and here's why.

>>4232462
100, 200 or 500 years ago we all (including modern poor) were dead, so poor of those times were better off.

Seriously, THIS is your excuse -- that someone at some point in history had it worse???

>>4232652
you gotta learn... to rap or play basketball or som'in! either that or sell crack that's the only Ive seen it work. you trapped! nigga you trapped!

better start entertainin these white people, get to dancin! now go out there and be somebody :D