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>black
that's why

idk, you've only posted mugabe. I doubt you can name any other black african leaders.

>>2985645
so are there any good ones?

>>2985666
the fuck if I know anything about africa.

Don't know, maybe Nahas Angula, Yoweri Museveni, Anerood Jugnauth or Armando Guebuza could care to explain.

You're right, they're all rubbish.
Machel in Moz was going to be a great leader, then he fucked the place up beyond recognition. Same for Nyere, Nkrumah, the Ethiopian Emperor and his successor.
Mugabe was going to be the great uniter, man of peace, and so on. Then he killed 20,000 Matabele people in a matter of months and sent the economy into the shitter.
Then we had Mandela, who let hundreds of thousands of hardened criminals out of prison in a mass amnesty, who proceeded to butcher, rape and rob tens of thousands. Then we had Mbeki, who denies that AIDS and HIV have anything to do with each other. We had health minister Manto, who thinks AIDS can be cured with vegetables. We have Safety and Security Minister Nqakula, who says if you don't like crime, you're a whinger and should leave. Then we have Zuma, who thinks showers prevent AIDS, the ANCYL leader who thinks counter-revolutionaries need to be shot and so on. They're all fucking rubbish.

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I think one of the main problems is that these leaders are from the top 1% of African intelligence that can approximate human normal. They then buy into the myth of African equality with humans, since they're more or less human.

Then they, as in South Africa and Zimbabww, drive the educated, skilled white people from criticial industries and replace them with negroes, who are useless. Disaster results.

Chimpabwe is an excellent example -- the negroes, given the white-owned farms, promptly ate everything. All the crops, all the animals, all the seed, etc. Then they dismantled and sold the equipment for more food. Then they starved, ON TOP OF A HUGE, FORMERLY PRODUCTIVE FARM.

Thus has Zimbabwe plunged from one of the top food exporters in Africa to its current, miserable state.

Wanna have some more fun? Go look up a chart for South African life expectancy. You'll notice hilarious things starting in the mid-90s.

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>>2985789
Not to mention the Human Development Index. You can actually watch South Africa fall off a cliff the year the National Party leaves sole control over the government in favour of the unity coalition.

>>2985789

Reliable source or it didn't happen.

>>2985789
>African intelligence

stopped reading there.

enjoy your shallow grasp of the issues, thinly veiled racial superiority complex, and inability to comprehend simple sociological concepts.

some people never learn.

>>2985804
Here's just one example. Sauce is the South African Broadcasting Corporation which is in the pocket of the ANC, so you know it's not biased.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=OVxVWnWENRs

>>2985816
Not biased against the government rather I should say.

>>2985797

Yep. Sadly, the sub-Saharan negro is, by and large, a thoroughly useless creature. I weep for the 5-10% of Africans who are capable of thought.

The one guy broke my heart -- a sanitation official somewhere in that hellhole, who was trying, and failing, to get the animals to stop shitting in bushes and dig latrines, but they just wouldn't do it. The quote went along the lines of

"I find it sad that the US and the Europeans have walked on the moon and are going to Mars, and here I'm being told by people that they don't have the time or technology to dig pit latrines."

Just sad. Oh, and there's that chart. South Africa black rule in 1994, Zimbabwe in 1980, etc. You'll notice that you can figure out when Whitey left because upward growth in various good things immediately levels out and then crashes. South Africa went from an average life expectancy of 63 to an average life expectancy of 47, in less than a decade.

>>2985797
>>2985789
where can you find the charts from past years

>>2985815

Sorry, friend, but it's just the truth. You wonder why everything in Africa fails? The vast majority of the people there are simply useless, heavily retarded by any other races' standard. Just google Africa and IQ, you'll find reams of stuff on the subject.

http://majorityrights.com/index.php/weblog/comments/iq_matters/

>>2985846

Google!

South Africa life expectancy
South Africa human development index
Zimbabwe average income

etc, through Google Image, will give you reams of charts and graphs from reputable sources. Note here on the HDI, a composite of life expectancy, literacy, educational attainment, and GDP per capita for whatever country you want.

by8g7g7g679g0

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>>2985850
>This website discusses various issues related to the preservation of Western culture and the ethnic genetic interests (EGI) of people of European ancestry.

Yeah, that's not a biased source

>>2985850

As we've covered in 9000 other threads, IQ is heavily influenced by the environment. If you grew up in an industrialized democracy, congratulations! Your IQ's pretty good! But if you grow up in sub-Saharan Africa or rural China then don't expect to score well in IQ tests which have jack shit to do with surviving in those places.

>>2985826
learn2aids

Here's Zimbabwe, note that since black majority rule started earlier, its decline starts earlier. Tom be fair, the Rhodesian civil war was pretty brutal, so Mugabe had to implement his stupid ideas slowly, so the worst doesn't start to kick in until 1985 or so.

To contrast: Vietnam. The Americans bombed that place flat, except the parts made uninhabitable by Agent Orange. 2.2 million Vietnamese dead. Every factory and city burnt. And no help from anyone! The Americans didn't give them any money, the Soviets didn't, the Chinese hated them, etc.

Now, they're rapidly catching up with South Korea as the #3 economy in East Asia. They're so productive that tarriffs are getting imposed on Vietnamese goods in Asia. This in 30 years, after being killed by the millions and bombed flat.

The Africans have been independent for around 50 years. They got left with intact, functioning government apparatus, immense mineral wealth, and have been receiving billions in aid money from around the world. WHY DO THEY STILL FAIL?

>>2985850
Yours is a cource that promotes anti semitism and vested neo nazism.

Go die in a fire

Here's a graph showing HDI in Southern Africa, usually AIDS is cited to excuse the falling HDI, but if so, what was it that would cause AIDS to become a problem precisely the year the ANC took power??!!

>>2985898

If by 'billions in aid' you mean loans with 23% interest with the condition that you must implement SAPs, then no, I don't see how that could help.

Also, try talking about countries that are not Zimbabwe and South Africa; and not editing that single pixel so you can post the same graph over and over again without providing context, theory, analysis or history.

>>2985886


Sadly, in real life, rural Chinese score on average in the 90s on IQ tests, and they're pretty poor folk. Africans, however, test to a median of around 60 and 70 points.

And your environment doesn't magically appear around you -- it is created by the people by those around you. A shit environment is reasonable to expect from a colony of people with a median IQ of 65. The countryside in Asia, on the other hand, tends to be a lot cleaner and more productive.

>>2985629
Mugabe was a great leader. The west simply undermined him because he was a HURR DURR COMMIE.

>>2985931
You can see clearly on the last graph that overall Sub-Saharan HDI has stagnated. Also, it's funny that these days libbies want to say that we should talk about the other African countries, when just a few years ago they were touting either Zimbabwe or South Africa as the new black hope.

>>2985943
Nope, the Brits were all for Mugabe because they hated Smith for being a rebel traitor.

>>2985931

No, I'm talking about good old fashioned, here's free money don't want it back, which for example was $4 billion in the four years leading up to 2005.

And the IMF/World Bank fucked over Asia just as thoroughly with those 'loans' you're referencing, and yet somehow they're doing great. Weird.

>>2985925
Fuckin saved. I love the flags, really illustrates the fuck-up in a way that even the most deluded libfag can't deny.

>>2985945
>Also, it's funny that these days libbies want to say that we should talk about the other African countries, when just a few years ago they were touting either Zimbabwe or South Africa as the new black hope.
>libbies

So wait, the defining point of conservatism is racism?

>>2985969
I don't get your point, it is a fact that liberals have touted South Africa as the great black hope (their words, not mine).

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>>2985925
Yeah, they always do cry "AIDS" as if that is somehow a cover-all excuse. Which is pretty ridiculous, since countries with a) a decent health system and b) people that aren't absurdly promiscuous can keep it under control. But oh no, it's not their fault.

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>>2985969

There has been, over the last few decades, an overreaction to the racism of the past. Nowadays, it's thought that ANY acknowledgement of race as a factor in anything is exactly the same as lynching Tyrone outside of Mobile, Alabama.

This is stupid thinking. It'd be equating someone who voted Obama with Josef Stalin, because they're both on the left side of the political spectrum.

I'm left-wing on almost every social issue, but I'm a race realist. As the co-discoverer of DNA thought, Africa will continue to fail as long as we cling to this myth of African equality with the other races. They're just not, they never have been, and they never will be.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/fury-at-dna-pioneers-theory-africans-are-less-intelligent-
than-westerners-394898.html

It's a shame 4chan is the only place you can discuss this openly. The fear of political correctness and the inevitable link to racism makes this subject very much taboo elsewhere, even though everyone more or less knows what's wrong already.

>>2985963
Funny how it's suggested that giving countries loans is somehow an evil, crippling thing to do. It's only a bad thing if you have an irresponsible government (which African countries do, of course).

When countries (like Zimbabwe today) are denied loans, the libfags will say "oh, the international community is DENYING them credit, which is why they're poor". When countries are granted loans, waste/embezzle the funds and get into debt, they say "Oh, it's our fault for getting them into debt, that's why they're poor."

Funny that Rhodesia and SA under the Nats were able to press forward for decades and become Africa's wealthiest nations despite having none of the goodwill that black Africa enjoyed.

>>2985963

HISTORYTIP: The Asian countries hit by the 1997 financial crisis were something like an order of magnitude wealthier than sub-Saharan Africa. Malaysia, who spurned the IMF, recovered faster than anyone else.

>>2985938

Let's say you had a time machine. You went back to around 1700 in the Britain. You administer an IQ test to a local village who scores horribly. "By God!" you say to yourself. "Everyone... everyone is RETARDED! Even educated notable and the middle class artisan doesn't score well. I guess this means the British are inherently retarded and will never amount to anything."

Conclusion: lrn2logical fallacies

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>>2986016
Yay, old news.
>>2986027
Funny how you ignore that it was the british empire and not "those damn lubirals!!!!!!!!" that destroyed the biracial republuc of rodhesia and forced the Boers to share their country with the Bantus.

>>2986027

When the interest rate is 23%/month and you give that loan to another person, that means you're a loan shark.

>>2986016

>>race realist

DOHO! Looks like we've got a real physical anthropology PhD here.

>>2986031
Why were they an order of magnitude wealthier than Sub-Saharan Africa in the first place (with the exception of the former white minority ruled nations and territories, of course)?

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>>2986047
The global left, including the British Labour Party, the left-wing element of the Democratic Party, the anti-apartheid movement, the Soviet Union and China all played a role in destroying Rhodesia.

>>2986031

Do it for a century, with millions of people. Oh wait, it's already been done.

Peasants in China making a few dollars a day have a median IQ in the 90s. In the cities, still far poorer than in the industrialized West, it's 100. Move them to America, and it's 100. And their kids will test around 100.

In Africa, it's 65 in the countryside. In their cities, some of which are quite nice, like Johannesburg, it's 75. Move them to America, and it's 75. And their kids will test around 75.

>>2986047
The National Party had already shared the country with the blacks, lrn2Transkei and the fact that half of South Africa's arable land was assigned to the black homelands.

>>2985676
Anerood Jugnauth was of Indian descent, which would make him caucasian, and not negroid.

>>2986060

Because they used to be on top in the first place. If it weren't for the British, India and China would still have the world's highest GDP like they did in the 1750's.

Meanwhile, Africa has a low area of arable land, few plants suitable for regular agriculture, a single geographically-limited domesticable animal, the worst tropical disease environment in the world and a history of total subjugation by colonial powers.

Let me guess, these Africans should have pulled themselves up through THE POWER OF RUGGED INDIVIDUALITY but they couldn't because of their genes or some shit.

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>>2986071
Sorry, I have to disagree with you on one point there: Johannesburg is not a "nice city," it has the highest crime rate of any city on earth. The whole of Gauteng and most of South Africa is like that, with the exception of parts of the Northern and Western Cape Province. Oh and maybe some towns along the other coast where Durban is.

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>>2986071

Nice reputable sources there, bro.

It's like you're totally blind to the fact that economic development and industrialization = higher IQ scores. You'd be mistaken to think that IQ CAUSES industrial development, but there's no way you'd accept that from us, would you? Go to college and see for yourself the academic consensus.

>>2985969
Pretty much. And the Republicans wonder why their party is dying....

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>>2986097
Africa has some fantastic wealth, though, in the form of minerals and oil (particularly in Angola, the Congo, and Sierra Leone). All that a competent government would need to do is exactly what South Africa did and what the Middle Eastern nations did: establish a national corporation to dig the stuff out, put it in the treasury, dole it out to the population, hey presto, wealth. Africa also has some top-notch farmland, that's why Rhodesia used to be so prosperous despite not having much in the way of mineral wealth: it sold tobacco and used the proceeds to import materials it couldn't produce from Portugal and South Africa.

>>2986097

This is insane thinking. First, there are tons of draft animals now.

http://ergodd.zoo.ox.ac.uk/livatl2/draftoxenmap.htm

The country is awash in arable land. It's not being used.

http://maps.grida.no/go/graphic/current_and_potential_arable_land_use_in_africa

And almost anything will grow in Africa. Corn is still #1, and it's one of the most nutritious cereals out there.

And ask an Asian about subjugation by colonial powers. They generally all left at about the same time they left Africa, by the way.

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Fuck them bricks

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OH FOR FUCKS SAKE I GIVE UP

I'll be happy to come back and troll on this topic sometime when we're NOT being shitflooded by worm spam.

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>>2986142

>>And almost anything will grow in Africa. Corn is still #1, and it's one of the most nutritious cereals out there.

Corn is not native to Africa. Europe had early access because of their colonies in the Americas and the convenient dying off of all the natives. And I'm talking about historical context here, which formed the conditions leading to the present situation. You seemed to have missed that.

>>And ask an Asian about subjugation by colonial powers.

You think that the Asian experience of colonialism was the same as the African? Things aren't so simple as to boil both regions down to broad trends, but let's take the example of a single country. Indonesia ousted the Dutch with the help of the Japanese, who built up Indonesian infrastructure. Then you look at the Belgian Congo, which was notorious for King Leopold's nightmarish excesses . Who do you think had the advantage?

Maybe it's slowed down? Or am I deluding myself?

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>>2986213
Don't leave. I'm enjoying your trollposts. ;___;

>>2986221
By the 1960s, the Belgian Congo was one of the richest colonies in Africa and had universal secondary education.

True story. Also way to use the single worst atrocity that took place in the history of colonial rule that happened in the 1880s as an excuse for Africa's failure almost 100 years later.

>>2986213

Come back, i have nothing better to do!

>>2986221
Indians experienced the same colonial experience as African nations did.

>>2986224
>COLOURED SQUARES
>Coloured
I see what you did there.

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>>2986241

muutbrox

I bet you're one of those people who think when slavery ended at the end of the Civil War, everything was suddenly peachy for Blacks.

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>>2986256
Before colonization, practically no Congolese could read. There was no healthcare and no roads. Afterwords, there was universal education, a united state, and HOSPITALS EVERYWHERE. And then what happened?

>>2986256
Again, you're taking the single worst atrocity anywhere in Africa and using to excuse the failure of the rest of Africa, in most of which where nothing of the kind took place.

>>2986246

India had the good fortune of Britain deciding to educate many Indians in English, so that when people in the Anglosphere needed tech support there was a huge amount of cheap labour capable of doing it.

India is also still very, very far from being on the same level as G8 countries.

>>2985931
SPOILER: Countries only need IMF loans when they've already sent their economy into the shitter.

Fine, I'm back.

>>2986221

Who cares? There have been draft animals galore, and fast-growing, nutritious crops in Africa now for at least CENTURIES. You wouldn't be suggesting that Africans are somehow genetically unable to fathom how to use plow animals, or grow crops? They've been around since today's Africans' great-great-great-great-great grandparents were there. And I guarantee you those Africans haven't moved far from great-great-great-great-great grandpappy's home.

>>2986269

Well, in the late '90s the Rwandan genocide forced extremist Hutus to leave to the Congo in droves, which was partially contributed to the outbreak of the current war. And guess who artificially created two races and gave one a privileged position....

>>2986279

That's why I said it was only an example. I'm pretty sure there are many, many examples to choose from.

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>>2986280

The British did likewise in South Africa, Rhodesia, Canada, etc. Everywhere they went, they tried to educate the natives. Part of the White Man's Burden and all that.

Of course, Indians and Native Americans have a median IQ of around 95, and negroes have median IQs of around 75, so we can imagine where they had more success.

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>>2986310

>>CENTURIES

Uh huh, right. If by centuries you mean >130 years, then sure. And of course, Europe had access to a wide range of domesticable animals, latitudinally-oriented continent suitable for growing a variety of useful crops and no tropical diseases, for millenia. Then, during the colonization of the Americas, they had the good luck of encountering natives with immune systems geared towards parasites rather than microbes, and received TWO ENTIRE CONTINENTS worth of natural resources and new and better crops. HMMM.

>>2986325
Here's an image I want to burn into your skull.
It's the late 1950s. A meeting of the OAU is taking place. The Burundian government has just finished murdering 100,000 of its troublesome Hutu population. Nevertheless, in conformity with the practice of black African governments not criticising one another, not a word is said by a single African leader.. The Burundian delegate is given a standing ovation, and is praised for the "efficient" and advanced way it is running the nation. Then they get down to the business of discussing how best to destroy South Africa.

>>2986325

I assure you the Hutus and Tutsis were around long before Whitey showed up.

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>>2986333

Ok, shut the fuck up about IQ for two seconds. As I've said before, you didn't provide sources for such specific stats so it's irrelevant. Even if you did, you're just describing the current situation and not the causes of it.

Canada is irrelevant because that's just British settlers, very little native population to deal with. India is different from Rhodesia. In 1750, India's GDP is estimated to have been equal to all of Europe.

>>2986365

Ok, that's not even an argument. All you're saying is that Africans are brutal savages. Do we have to go over any number of Asian on Asian, White on White massacres?

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>>2985925
That's just amazing. I don't know why that decline isn't given more attention by the media, it's just outrageous how incompetent they must be to let that happen, especially when the new government is supposed to be working for the benefit of the majority now.

>>2986067
The Soviet Union backed Mugabe's ZANU and all its disastrous policies.

I took no part in such events, for I am not a soviet bolshevist.

>>2986434
What it does show is that post-colonial governments were prepared to applaud mass-murder and genocide. It would be like if the French today decided "Oh, I guess we'll murder all the Basques now" and the rest of Europe just sort of looked the other way and at the next EU meeting, decided instead to compliment them of how they were keeping inflation under control, and then decided to start a propaganda campaign against the Swiss or something.

>>2986434
It does point out their blatant hypocrisy and jealousy in defending their own with blood dripping from their hands, while attacking a relatively peaceful and prosperous South Africa for its "oppression."

>>2986464

Well, in that case we're in agreement: nearly all postcolonial governments were shit. But it is NOT because of 'lolniggers'

>>2986486
It seems to be. South Africa and Rhodesia were the only governments in Africa, if not the world, that were willing to openly discuss and expose the brutality and savagery of their neighbours.

>>2986492
Malawi being a noble exception to the list, of course.

All the great africans are in America, Europe and Brazil.

>>2986464
>>2986486

Forgot to add: the Holocaust was originally greeted with silence too, if you recall.

>>2986486
>>2986475
The problem is that we have yet to reach the post-post-colonial mindset.

hpGEAe1ZOr

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dVLonG7lj6

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I notice that no-one here is keen to talk about how South Africa's HDI has fallen since 94 despite the ANC having had the opportunity to learn from the rest of Africa's failure.

ffs if you're already racist, an anonymous imageboard is not going to convince you to change your worldview. Alright, fuck it, I'm postan some Horo.

1tz0ZivDG4

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>>2986475

I would hesitate to call Apartheid sunshine and fun games. Just because it was less bad doesn't make it good.

>>2986515

I agree. But the Bretton Woods system is not working, and gives Africans the impression of willful malice by former colonial powers.

>>2986565
All governments are a limitation on freedom. Thus, all governments are a necessary evil.

sI3G2PfH0X

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>>2986565
Relative to the war and starvation prevalent in the rest of Africa, it certainly was. The fact that South Africa had to put a lot of effort to keep out Africans from neighbouring countries pre-apartheid would seem to demonstrate this.

The next logical question is: why was it overthrown? Well, IMHO, the ironic answer to this is that South Africa insulated its black population from the horrors of Africa so well that blacks were inclined to dismiss the government's dire warnings of what their control of the government might mean as propaganda and nonsense. They had become so accustomed to their relative prosperity that they had no idea how lucky they were.

>>2986565

Yeah, but is Apartheid necessary? =/

Let's say I had a white girlfriend. Or an Indian girlfriend or something. I'm ethnically Chinese. If I were living in SA under Apartheid, I couldn't marry her. The Nats could have done without this delightful piece of legislation.

>>2986535

I'm pretty sure we have talked about it. Or if we hadn't, i'm pretty sure it was in one of billions of previous 'afrikkka sux b/c of niggas lol' threads.

szriooCTLW

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>>2986658
Immigrants to South Africa from Western countries and the United States were classified as a statutory White, regardless of ethnic origin.

ZYK1gwHTTH

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>>2986658

Whoops, forgot my Horo.

>>2986626

Comparing them in the first place is not helpful in explaining Africa's ills, at least not the way you're doing it. Would you say, "oh, well Serbia is not as bad as the Soviet Union, so Serbia is an example to the rest of Eastern Europe?" Besides, why choose the lesser of two evils? It's not like good governance and minimal racism are mutually exclusive.

lAYWNvb6MM

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vBabrPYe3d

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>>2986658
The South African government regarded apartheid as an unfortunate necessity. Whites were vastly outnumbered and a declining minority; the logic was that if even a fraction of the white population disappeared into the black majority every generation, the Afrikaner would vanish within a few generations, along with the civilization they built. They recognised the cost of the policy, but regarded the alternative as worse. History will decide whether or not they were wrong.

SjCtci7Kj1

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>>2986700
In South Africa, giving the black majority the vote in the white parliament meant the end of their sovereignty, and the replacement of their values with black African ones. If you don't think of that as a problem; fine, but the National Party at the time looked north and regarded the prospect as an apocalypse for their people.

>>2986690

Let's say the two of us immigrated from Botswana. Our parents were NGO officials or something. Or we emigrated from India.

Either way, it's bullshit. A native-born Black should be able to marry a White if they so desire.

IQ/g usuallly predicts major life outcomes better than does any other single predictor in broad samples of individuals. For example, whether IQ predicts strongly (educational performance) or weakly (law-abidingness), it predicts better than does social class background.

>>2986718
They never thought about just restricting citizenship for those who knew how to read and write and did military service?

That would at least give blacks an opurtunity to integrate.

>>2986756
And your contribution for this thread is?

>>2986718
>>2986743

Fair enough. If we allow Israel to have the same policy, then it would be discrimination (lol) to disallow SA from something similar. But even in Israel an Arab can marry a Jew and no one will look twice.

>>2986790
I was just pointing out that Africans have dismally low IQs.

Without high-IQ people to fill the upper echelons of society it is obvious why they can't maintain anything resembling a civilization.

3695gLBsuX

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>>2986828
No, you were posting a copypasta that noone cares about and that has been randomly posted in every single race related thread in the robot without care for context or general usefulness.

>>2986756
>>2986828

GET THE FUCK OUT

>>2986774

Here's something I find unusual. Why all the nostalgia for and glorification of the Nats? They could have tried to make the transition smoother. Maybe they did, but evidently not hard enough.

>>2986828
you know these are outdated numbers

>>2986821
But joos are special.

>>2986868
>>2986868
Had the Nats given in earlier, in the 1970s, South Africa would have become a communist country overnight like Mozambique instead of the slow decay as is happening now. The jury is still out on what the long term impact will be, but with education standards down, skills flight, crime, and corruption, I can't help feeling a little nostalgic myself.

>>2986875

Not just Jews.

You're always super special, that's why you are here with me!
Miracle Baby I'm happy to with with you~

>>2986828
What do you think the chinese are doing in Angola?
At least they don't claim to be helping them, they just trade.

>>2986917
They don't claim to be helping them because they're not helping them.

>>2986900

Assuming you live there, I can see your point. But really what you miss was the standards of living. Apartheid wouldn't really matter to you unless, as a policy, it somehow kept the standards of living up.

MIxed breeding regresses human evolution and introduces racially exclusive diseases , such as Sickle Cell Anemia to all ethnic groups creating a pandemic.
Destroy all brown skinned races .They are inferior.

White and Yellow Alliance

South Africa and Rhodesia would both be G20 nations now had they stayed under white rule.

As it is they are collapsing, Zimbabwe spectacularly so, South Africa will take another decade at most.

>>2986921
Contrary to the white men who had nothing but the best of intentions towards Africa.

Africa would be a lot better now if the concept of white men's burden and later western guilt did not exist.

>>2986930
Yes, and to be honest, in theory I find apartheid repugnant too. I mean, there are plenty of good looking and intelligent people of all races. I know that, and I think the Nat leaders knew that too. No-one wants mandatory military service or censorship or sports boycotts back.

I would really like it, though, if the government didn't use my taxmoney on enriching themselves and their friends while allowing the apartheid-era infrastructure to degrade though. I'd also like it if they'd seal the border, to ease the tax burden on the high earners, so that the skills and capital flight stops. I'd like it too if they did something about police corruption and made it so that crime wasn't so apocalyptic.

>>2986952
Evolution doesn't work that way
>>2986955
South Africa is part of the G20

>>2986952

Fuck off, I've never met a brown person I didn't like.

>>2986955

See, there can be improvement (for SA at least)! It's not like SA is imploding like the Congo. Sort of like how China had a shit period of the Cultural Revolution and Great Leap Forward but came out on top anyway. And those things were waaaay worse than what SA is experiencing now.

>>2986972
the problem is that its all those gleeful black voters who happily vote for your awful government, you cant really separate the end of apartheid and what's happened

>>2986979

He said both.

And yes, evolution does work that way. It works through distillation, not blending.

>>2986988
The problem is that the educated population is evaporating. And think about it: only South Africans will put up with the crime and incompetence out of patriotism. No Chinese, Indian or French engineer is going to want to move to the most violent country in the world for the privilege of enjoying a high tax rate, living in a prison and feeling envied and hated by the government.

>>2986972

Don't like what the government is doing? Use the tools that democracy has provided you to improve your country.

NEVAR GIVE UP, NEVAR SURRENDER

Also, watch out for global warming. That shit could fuck SA's economic rise hard.

>>2986988

That's odd, I've never met a white person I did like.

>>2987011
Do keep in mind that us previously advantaged ones are only 9% of the population. We are very wealthy compared to the rest, and all that the government needs to do to keep the black masses loyal is promise moar handouts and tell everyone that we want apartheid back. And since more and more white people start to resent our being used as cash cows, more of us DO become nostalgic for apartheid. It's a vicious circle, and it will end with most of us leaving the country.

>>2986972
Apartheid - no.
Homogenous community - yes.
Multi-cultural societies are ALWAYS riddled with hate,violence and crime.
Why is the USA more crime-ridden and violent than Canada - because (up till the last 20 years) Canada was a mono-Racial country populated by white Europeans from the British Isles.

Why did 19th century Austria sow the seeds for Nazism - because of its multi-ethnic 'cosmopolitanism'

And the presence of the Jew stirring shit up.
Don't forget the ANC in South Africa was formed by Jews .
Das Kapital was written by Jews.
The Credit Crunch was caused by Jewish financiers.

White and Yellow - join forces to exterminate the Jew and the Brown-skins !

>>2987001

>>It works through distillation

Uh.... nice education there, bro.

>>2987009

And SA has made it to the G20 anyway. Things don't stay the same way forever.

>>2987009
Good point. And as an augmentation, consider that democracy only works among a population of informed voters.

Perhaps South Africa should try some other form of government for a while.

>>2987030
And what way do you think South Africa is going? SA must be one of the only countries where food prices are actually going up in a recession, thanks to land seizures. And when Thabo finds that he can't afford to feed his 8 kids, who will he blame? His useless government that he helped elect? No, us. Even though we pay for his social services and run the farms that put food in his mouth. Horribly, the more South Africa degrades, the more jealousy and hatred there will be against us. And if any blacks start to wake up, the ANC will simply buy them off with our wealth, which will drive more of us to Ozland.

We're fucked.

>>2987025
Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Canada has always had a large minority of Indians and Chinese. They were taken there as labourers around 100 years ago by the British.

>While acknowledging the harmful effects of slavery and colonialism on Africa, Neves has said that African leaders are primarily responsible for the continent's problems today, and that they must assume their responsibility to develop a clear strategy for Africa's future that takes advantage of all of its human capabilities and natural resources.

Best African leader currently in office, too bad its for a worthless country, even by African standards

Dont need to talk about africa, just look at wherever niggers go.

Brazil has one of the highest black populations in the world and the country is being destroyed by them.

>>2987025
Austria wasn't multi-ethnic in the 19th century.

INTERESTING NOT-ENTIRELY-OUTRIGHT-RACIST THREAD IS NOT ENTIREY OUTRIGHT RACIST

bumppp

>>2987080
Actually Brazil's HDI has been steadly risisng for the past several years.

>>2987023

That's something that's mystifying to me. I have no idea how someone would break a feedback loop like that. Hopefully, further growth attracts more FDI and foreign capital. One smart policy would be to end open borders.

>>2987025

Dude, what the FUCK.

Toronto is close to where I live. It's like 20% brown/Arab, 30% Asian and 10% Black. My own high school was >50% visible minorities. Don't really whatcha talkin' about there.

Here's what I found from my readans: the worse the oppression of minorities, the more social problems you get today. Recently ended Apartheid, and you get the worst of the worst (for industrialized countries) in SA. Slave economy ended 150 years ago, you get the much better but still problematic situation in USA. Canada had, at least compared to the States, a very low amount of oppression against minorities and everything's peachy today.

>>2987104

along with crime and HIV rates.

>>2987105
Arabs are from the Asian continent too, you retarded Canuckistani.

>>2987085
ignorant cuss , buy yourself a Wikipedia !

>>2987105
The government won't end open borders, though. Why? Because foreign blacks will get forged Home Affairs documents and all vote ANC for moar handouts, while putting more of a strain on the taxpaying population. It's the same reason why South Africa makes it very, very difficult for legal, skilled immigrants to apply for citizenship: they are likely to vote for the opposition DA. Basically, for the ANC, the more blacks there are in SA as a proportion the better, just as the old NP encouraged white immigration from the US and elsewhere to shore up its apartheid power. You could say it's the same, except for the fact that the voters the ANC are importing are largely unskilled, usually poor, and often criminal.

>>2987105
dipshit , read the part about '(up till the last 20 years)' in Canada.

READ before you REPLY.

>>2987086

FUCK YEAR

>>2987085

lol yes it was, actually. Lots of minorities: Hungarians, Croats, Magyars you name it. It was a real problem for the empire actually, but that didn't really erupt until the lead-up to WWI.

>>2987053

You're postan on 4chan, you can't be THAT fucked. Uh, forgive my ignorance, but what's Ozland?

Why does the USA/European media supress stories about Black South Africans murdering and intimidating Black Nigerians,Zimbabwians and other Black Africans who moved down to SA for a better life ?

It seems tha liberal media don't give a shit if its Black-on-Black or White-on-White violence . Only if 'whitey' is being 'colonial'.

Fuck, forgot my Horo again.

>>2987118

In Canada and the US, Asians refer to East Asians only.

>>2987133

lol that goes way further back than 20 years ago.

>>2987126

How segregated are Blacks and Whites now? Do you know any middle-class Blacks yourself? You guys could form a coalition or something, unless you answered 'no' to the previous two questions.

>>2987158
Basically, the ANC lets foreigners in because they increase their power. They know that even though black South Africans don't like having to compete with foreigners for jobs, they will still vote ANC, because it is the black party and the party of liberation, so it's win-win for the ANC. After all, they don't care about either the impoverishment of their own people or foreigners being brutally murdered by their own people out of frustration at the illegal immigration problem. The more foreigners there are in SA, the poorer the average South African black becomes, since they are all competing for the same jobs.

>>2987158

I know about that. Actually, that's something I forgot to mention to >>2987126

Poor Blacks don't want open borders either, apparently. Stands to reason.

>>2987186
Only if foreigners consume more jobs than they create.

If the foreigners are wealthy / skilled / educated / whatever, they may be creating many jobs each.

>>2987186

Don't you think this disastrously unpopular policy will effect the polls in some way? Nobody but foreign refugees (and according to you, the ANC) wants open borders.

I vote Idi Amin as black Africa's most badass leader.

>>2987177
I do know a few middle-class blacks (although society is still really divided along racial lines), and yes, some of them do vote for the Democratic Alliance. But the ANC threatens and assaults any DA members who try to campaign in "their" areas, so reaching blacks in townships who might be willing to vote against the ANC is very difficult. Besides, those who are living in wretched poverty logically are not going to make any decision (like voting DA) which they so much as suspect might result in direct financial pain for them in the short term, even if the burden on the high-earners is driving capital and skills out of the country and service delivery and infrastructure are degrading.

Basically, the bottom line is that we have two South Africas. For the wealthy and skilled, we feel that we are already sacrificing a lot by staying here, by being willing to put up with crime, corruption, hatred, and incompetence. For the poor, though, we can be portrayed as whiners, and people who should be grateful that we didn't suffer the Zimbabwe option. We both have trump cards: ours is emigration, our vote doesn't count, but we can threaten to leave, taking our skills with us. Their trump is that they have the sovereign power now and can seize our wealth and property and have control over us.

>>2987191
No, they don't want open borders, but they also won't vote for a "white" party, even though the DA is the party which was the anti-apartheid opposition before 1994. That's just how it is here. Maybe they will start voting differently eventually, just like the Zimbabweans did, but by then this country won't be what it was.

>>2987204

Actually, what the open borders policy entails is unrestricted immigration. And given the shape some of the countries bordering SA is in, that is a terrible, terrible idea. I heard that the ANC is only doing this because SA owes those other countries for taking in THEIR refugees in the past, but there are some more cynical ideas about ANC's motives listed here.

>>2987253

Even if you're a shit-poor uneducated Black, I think eventually you'd eventually see that the ANC is doing a shitty job. Their antidemocratic behaviour is kind of infuriating, and I can see how it is difficult to campaign for the DA. Do middle-class Blacks suffer the same stigma as Whites? If not they could be the lynchpin of a political campaign.

>>2987219
go back to north korea

I love how retards who don't get anything about socioeconomics, history or politics equate everything to NIGGURZ, well, I guess that is what they're capable of anyways.

For example, when the SU collapsed, the GDP halved, crime increased exponentially - why? Because Boris Yeltsin was actually a nigger, and imported darkies from Africa in secret.

>>2987319
For a while, the DA had a black leader (Seremane), but of course, the ANC just said, well he's just the figurehead, Tony Leon is still the baas. And yes, there is a stigma to vote or support the DA: I remember watching a DA function being reported on TV, where whoever was chairing the meeting went to ask a black member a question, and he literally shrank away from the camera. It is something for black DA supporters to be ashamed of. Also, a lot of blacks who wear DA-insign clothing have been known to take it off before going back to their homes in townships for fear of being beaten or worse.

Then again, I'm sure there are bars in the Free State and other places where white people with ANC pins or whatever would get an earful and maybe a punch in the face. You really do have to visit here to get an idea of what it's really like.

well cuz thre niggers

>>2987269

Well, there is one very long-term assurance. Within the next 20 years there will be a new generation of voters who never lived under Apartheid. It may be easier then to vote for a 'white' party. The DA could also do well to increase the number of Blacks in high-level posts.

>>2987349
But there's the catch, you see: a lot of hard-core Nat voters who were disgusted by de Klerk's betrayal moved to the DA, so the DA is a Frankenstein beast of a liberal, traditionally anti-apartheid party welded to former National Party supporters, new coloured voters, naturalized foreigners, and the new black middle class, or elements of it. They can't be too "black" or they lose much of their current angry white voters. And yet if they stay as they are, they won't gain any black votes.

>>2987365
And what about the COPE?

>>2987381
There was a recent by-election which got COPE 15% of the vote. It's good, but it's not enough. Even combined with the DA, it won't be enough to get them parliament.

>>2987388
15% is a fucking lot for a first time.

>>2987388
>>2987399

Any chance of a coalition government?

because every group that comes into power did so by military force and did so for personal gains not the interest of the country, for any of those countrys to get a decent start the people of the country would have to want it, work for it, and bleed for it, the US stepping and setting everything up for them wont accomplish anything if the people dont want it enough to dedicate themselves to it

Canada managed to maintain its racial homogeneity by giving immigrants from Europe preference to those from other continents up to the 1960s. This is similar to the White Australia Policy which was designed to restrict non-white (specifically Chinese and Japanese) immigration to Australia up till 1975.

So you fucking Canucks can go eat a dick. Stop pretending to be so holier than thou, you'e just as bad as the next Euro/American country.

>>2987399
It is, and I suppose I should be more optimistic and look at it as a good sign. I just worry firstly whether the ANC would go gracefully in the event of them starting to lose real power, and whether even the most skillful government would be able to reduce the damage already done. I mean, you have huge sections of all the cities under the control of gangs who have "hijacked" buildings and rent them out in defiance of the actual owners. You have an unknown number of drug dealers, fraudsters of all kinds who have just been streaming across the border and no-one to stop them. You have a military, most of the members of which have an STD.

At the same time, every journey begins with a single step, so I should try and be positive. But if the government does change, I don't envy whoever might have the task of fixing the place up.

>>2987456
>you'e just as bad as the next Euro/American country

I think you mean they're just as GOOD as the next Euro/American country.

Because trust me, Canada is pretty nice.

>>2987365

Haha, oh wow. How important are those angry guys to the DA's voter base? Is it as important as evangelicals to the Republicans (i.e. essential)?

>>2987345

How would they react to a Chinese-Canadian guy trying to get everyone to get along? Sounds like I'll get beaten up in both kinds of bars, lol.

>>2987491
Basically, during apartheid, liberal English-speaking whites were barely enough to make the DA a viable party at all (I think at most, they ever got 20%), and at the end of the 1980s, they were replaced in the all-white parliament as the opposition by a pro-apartheid party (Konserwatiewe Party van Suid-Afrika). Today, they are an even smaller minority, as the National Party was absorbed into the ANC. The DA now fluctuates between about 9 and 15% of the new all-race South African electorate, so they need every vote they can get. So yes, they do really need the vote of some reactionary whites, even though some of them joined the Freedom Front Plus instead of the DA.

>>2987419
The ANC would never go into coalition with the DA, since they are always command most of the black vote and can go into government themselves (and besides, the DA wouldn't want to taint their reputation in that way). They could get a coalition with the new COPE party if the latter gets enough votes. We shall see.

>>2987491
And also, the DA is supported by a lot of Coloureds who, when given the chance to vote for the first time, chose to give their vote to the National Party in 1994 before they got disillusioned. These sorts of coloureds would be very angry if the DA started looking like "just another kaffir party" and would probably start even start voting for the Freedom Front Plus!

So the DA/COPE coalition looks like the most likely scenario amirite?

Sooner or later the only people voting for the ANC will be hard lined poor blacks without education.

>>2987491
To be honest, Asians don't really fit in anywhere in South Africa. Because Asians were people of property, and so had an interest in the survival of the old government, ANC supporters don't really trust them and a lot resent the fact that Asians complain too much given that the ANC won them the right to enter the previously white parliament. Some white people on the other hand resent Asians for not having done more to support the old status quo given that the government was essentially protecting their position and property as well. Mind you, there are a lot of other people who don't really think about Asians at all and just think of them as generic foreigners. I'd say that's most people. A lot of Asians, for their part, resent whites for having not given them suffrage, while many resent the new ANC government and blacks for the same reasons whites do: for treating them as a cash cow and for employment quotas. The whole situation is made that much more complicated by the fact that some Asians (Taiwanese, Asian-Americans) were "statutory Whites" while others (Mainland Chinese and Indians and Chinese who came in the C19th) were "coloureds."

>>2987614
Ja but you should remember that's most people in this country!

>>2987590
I dunno lol, current polls suggest an ANC win as usual everywhere except at the Cape. There's still a bit of time to go though.

All countries with a majority of blacks suck. Black minorities in all countries suck. Coincidence? What are the odds?

Abandon your PC superstitions and look at where the evidence is pointing.