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  • Blotter updated: 11/04/08


  • hang in there, fella

    File :1229257570.jpg-(65 KB, 800x450, 800px-Dec2008-riot-komotini-2.jpg)
    65 KB Why can't something as awesome as this happen in Britain? Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)07:26:10 No.2433093  
    In a week, Greek has gotten in to crazy state. No-one trusts the government, shops, banks, car dealerships have been burned down and anarchists roam the streets. Also, because of the general strike, so many places have closed down and Greece is headed towards an economic crisis.

    Why doesn't something like this happen in London? People under-estimate the power they have, and they are scared by the murderers in uniform. Sure, they have armor and stronger weapons, but there are more of us and we have unity. When people work together, they can overthrow or change their shit government. Just look at what happened in Thailand, and Greece.

    Why the fuck are people just letting the government ruin our lives? The VATs gonna go back up in a few years, prices are gonna rise, more and more CCTV, more of a police state, more rules, less rights, less rights to protests, increase of technology to stop "crime" and wider gaps between the rich and the poor.

    row row, fight the powa.
    >> !1220003462 12/14/08(Sun)07:28:15 No.2433102
    See you, OP. The cops are already heading to your house. Enjoy your police state.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)07:29:31 No.2433111
    Believe it or not, there are only two types of countries in this world, listen closely.

    There's countries like Greece and France (both have had riots recently) where the government is shit scared of the people. Stuff like this happens.

    Then there's countries like UK and USA where the people are shit scared of the government. Stuff like this doesn't happen.

    Does it make sense now?
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)07:31:47 No.2433120
    People don't usually rebel until they've been pushed to the breaking point. Britain is being pushed by it's government, but not that far yet. That's my guess. People are pissed, but not enough people are pissed enough. And there's also the question of leadership. Without some kind of leadership and organization, any kind of protest or rebellion won't even get started and all it will accomplish will be to flag a lot of the dissenters so that they can be arrested and/or monitored.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)07:34:38 No.2433140
    because most people in britain enjoy the peace?

    everyone complains about a police state, but it doesn't affect us at all. Just asshole criminals. If someone is going to try and rape my girlfriend, I'd like to know his fucking face is caught on camera. Meanwhile said camera won't do anything to me at all.

    Our main problem is chavs and pakis. But chavs can be avoided if you live in decent parts of the country, and pakis in general are decent folk, its just the digusting minority that get some brits scared.

    I like the peace we have over here. I've lived here my whole life and have never been attacked, and neither has anyone I know.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)07:35:32 No.2433141
    YaLL aCtN LiKe u uN GnoW~
    iT bE dAh OGs sERVin wE pHoNieS da REAL DEE-MOCKracy~
    nuhwhmsain?

    ..v, PeAcE
    >> Fine Too 12/14/08(Sun)07:40:46 No.2433178
    A popular uprising composed of 56% of the population would be called a insurgency and a coup d'etat.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)07:41:17 No.2433186
    OP is an idiot, seriously how stupid do you have to be to think this is awesome? Do you think it's still fun when they damage/burn your car, destroy the windows of your house, ruin the economy,... Imo the "normal" people in France, or Greece do not riot, but the poor little kids who are too cool to go to school do. I would not be surprised if the majority of them are just doing this because they're bored and have nothing else to do. However, don't get me wrong, I do support peaceful demonstrations, it's important that the people come up for their rights.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)07:46:11 No.2433223
    >>2433186

    you should write a book about it and mail it to Greece
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)07:48:24 No.2433236
    your scared of curry munchers in britian?

    lol...?

    Wow I cant believe my ancestors came from there. (ausfag)
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)07:52:29 No.2433267
    >>2433236

    Scared might be the wrong word, but their prevalence has started to be a hindrance in some people's opinions. It's better than being overwhelmed by niggers though. Most of the blacks here are agreeable black men, which is good stuff.

    Also the third generation pakis (which I am : O) are fine.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)08:13:05 No.2433389
    >>2433140
    A bunch of drunken gumby housing estate teenagers and some immigrants has Britain shitting itself despite having lived through the IR fucking A? how the mighty have fallen...
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)08:21:31 No.2433438
    PROTIP: nothing /r9k/ says about Britain is true. It's either Americunts who want to deflect criticism from their own shitty country or BNPfags who don't like being caught lynching on camera.

    There are better countries, for sure. Greece isn't one of them. It's little wonder they riot so often in that shithole.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)08:22:05 No.2433442
    >>2433389

    Like I said, we are humble peaceful guys. Look at how Tony Blair acted around George Bush. We're just kinda... chilled.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)08:26:17 No.2433462
    >>2433236
    >(ausfag)

    Troll spotted, gentlemen.
    >> Mirrored !EhE8ram93U 12/14/08(Sun)08:26:43 No.2433465
    >>2433442
    Look up what happened to David Kelley.

    Chilled? Not so much.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)08:32:28 No.2433503
    >>2433465

    wow, never heard of that

    well compare us to the US?

    I'd say we're still pretty peaceful

    Not as much as siesta ravaged counties further into europe of course. But still pretty dandy.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)08:55:08 No.2433637
    >>2433093 Why can't something as awesome as this happen in Britain?

    Because the Brittons are a bunch of pussies who don't want to have to miss tea time.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)09:05:44 No.2433707
    Greekfag here, i've been to london once, and no wonder you people are such assholes, there is no fucking sun in that country, and the humidity makes your bones brittle. And your women are ugly. And your idea of fun is getting shitfaced.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)09:09:31 No.2433738
    Because your standards of living are too high. Congratulations, you've been bribed into bending over for your government.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)09:15:06 No.2433776
    I'm putting on my V mask and wig.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)09:16:27 No.2433787
    >>2433707
    >And your idea of fun is getting shitfaced.

    Yeah, since they banned mushrooms that's pretty much it.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)09:17:14 No.2433794
    I blame the food. Generation after generation of eating pig disgusting cooking and drinking oceans of beer -> buttfuck ugly retards.
    Enjoy your cameras yelling at you for standing idle in the street.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)09:22:19 No.2433833
    NOW I'VE NEVER BEEN TO THE UNITED KINGDOM BUT I'VE WATCHED A LOT OF FAMILY GUY SO I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE BRITISH ARE A VILE AND EFFEMINATE BREED AND DOGS CAN MARRY WOMEN.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)09:32:20 No.2433915
    >>2433707
    You made me grin. Greece is fucking awesome.

    Protests don't bother me. I love protests. What I don't love is people trashing shit for the sake of trashing shit. I want to take them by the throat and yell into their ear "This is POLITICS, you're supposed to give a damn!"

    (Right-wing governments are unpopular, left-wing governments turn everything to shit. See: Ausfailia, right now.)
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)09:33:50 No.2433929
    >>2433833
    Accurate description.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)09:34:55 No.2433938
    >>2433787

    when exactly did this happen anyway? I remember when I was yonger people were openly advertising mushrooms perfectly happily. Everyone was fucking tripping on them. Suddenly they disappeared.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)09:36:16 No.2433950
    Rioting? In greece?

    THATS NEVER HAPPENEED BEFORE LOL
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)09:37:09 No.2433955
    You what the best part about this is? You should see the massive hypocrisy on /k/

    Butthurt gun and second-amendment-hugging "patriots" being all "damn, why is this even legal to protest/why they don't just shoot them"

    But hey, they're just normal and they have already threatened the government with just rocks and petrol.

    ..meanwhile in /k/ they're all "omg when the police comes to get my guns i will shoot them with my gun <X> and then i will raise with my friends......"
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)09:37:24 No.2433956
    To be honest I'm fucking bored in the UK. I'd love for something like this to happen but the truth of the matter is that most people are too drunk and stupid to give a shit.

    I maintain a small shred of hope that something will happen when the government try to bring in the new ID card scheme and take away the last of our privacy.

    The majority of people are too busy watching the x factor to care though.

    I hate this country.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)09:41:15 No.2433975
    >>2433956
    The people who give a shit are too busy on /r9k/ bawwww threads.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)09:43:16 No.2433987
    ITT: Racism and half assed opinions
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)09:43:35 No.2433989
    >>2433956
    You're rationale for wanting a riot is "I'm bored let's break shit", and you're calling OTHER PEOPLE stupid?

    Britain isn't the worst country in the West by any stretch of the imagination.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)09:44:01 No.2433995
    >>2433989
    Your* rationale, sorry.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)09:46:43 No.2434016
    good, i fucking hate greeks.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)09:48:35 No.2434031
    Seriously look at the filv V For Vendetta.

    It is more than a hypothetical, scenario, the true message behind it is an imperative message we should all be aware of, people have power.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)09:50:18 No.2434043
    Fuck yeah, worldwide chaos has begun!

    I've been hoping for an economic meltdown, but the damn US gov't stepped in to stop it. Short sell everything, bargain prices galore!
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)09:53:15 No.2434059
    >>2433989

    No that's not it at all. I've had enough of the police state taking away our freedoms one by one. We won our liberties, they weren't given to us, and the government has absolutely no right to keep removing them.

    We've lost all semblance of a democracy, in my eyes the final straw was when the government decided to go to war (to prevent war) without listening to the general populace. If we don't get to vote on something as serious as that we have absolutely no power and it's about time we took it back.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)10:00:24 No.2434089
    >>2434059
    >I've had enough of the police state taking away our freedoms one by one. We won our liberties, they weren't given to us, and the government has absolutely no right to keep removing them.

    I don't support the anti-terrorist measures, or ID cards, or anything like that. But saying they amount to a 'police state' is ridiculous. The reason no one else is interested in your ridiculous little revolution is because no one else is a retarded conspiracyfag who actually believes the government is out to get us. Labour is guilty of incompetence, not totalitarianism.

    >We've lost all semblance of a democracy, in my eyes the final straw was when the government decided to go to war (to prevent war) without listening to the general populace. If we don't get to vote on something as serious as that we have absolutely no power and it's about time we took it back.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there are any countries in the world that put war to referendums. Damn good thing too, if you gave the general public the choice they'd probably declare war on Pakistan.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)10:10:21 No.2434160
    >>2434089

    Feel free to live in denial. It's fair enough that you're a bit older and you've settled down with your job and don't want anything to disrupt your perfect little life.

    Not everyone is as content as you though, so you can't expect them to agree with your views, just like you don't agree with mine.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)10:11:45 No.2434170
    We're an authoritarian, conservative little shit hole. We're so used to being governed, we vote for people who'll take away our freedoms time after time.
    >> !9yiGHoSTCM 12/14/08(Sun)10:13:24 No.2434179
    >>2434160
    FUCK YEAH BRO YOU ARE SO EDGY AND WOW YOU'RE LIKE CHE GUEVARA ONLY WITHOUT THE FACIAL HAIR BECAUSE YOU ARE FOURTEEN.

    Yeah, now go use your one comeback and call me a mindless capitalist sheep. Then you can go out with yo bredren and kick over some bins. VIVA LA REVOLUTION.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)10:15:47 No.2434193
    The reason why Greece is erupting all over is because the fascists won the civil war against the communists, and modern democracy was instated for the first time only in 1981.

    It should be clear to everybody that right wing governments, especially radical ones, are little more than an instrument of class warfare whose ultimate goal is to cancel taxes for the rich, and education, healthcare and basic dignity for everyone else. Greece thrived externally on state-sanctioned extreme nationalism for years, not giving Albanians, Slavs and others a chance to evolve or behave like humans, while internally the fascist trappings of governemnt were never questioned because centrist governments believe in maintaining a status quo. Because of a lack of external pressure, Greece couldn't maintain a chauvinistic pseudo-democracy in the mould of Israel forever, the propaganda was too convincing for people not to actually believe they have rights, and the hegemonistic attacks on macedonian sovereignity failed to garner as much attention as needed.

    What surprises me is the uniformly anarchist nature of the uprisings, flying colours and all.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)10:16:24 No.2434199
    You wanna change your shit government? Vote them out.

    Oh, wait, there's lots of people in your country who WANT those shitty leaders.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)10:18:09 No.2434213
    >>2434089
    But most Governments would have enough respect for their populace to avoid a war that over ninety percent were against, and which had the largest demonstrations ever rolling around london.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)10:18:55 No.2434218
    Ahh, yet another thread that will devolve into retarded capitalist lackeys crying to justify them sucking their masters cock, despite all reason and arguments and being disproven over and over again, and when the thread dies, a new one will pop up, and the retarded losers will spring up, and repeat the same thing, ignoring the pwnage, again and again - because apparently in their circles repeating something false over and over makes it true...
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)10:21:22 No.2434233
    >>2434179

    I'm not going to call you a mindless capitalist sheep. I'm going to call you a tripfag, tripfag.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)10:23:25 No.2434245
    PEACE THROUGH POWER

    Look, I'm not interested in current political issues or crises. Shit sucks and it's not going to get better. Welcome to life. I can certainly support getting pissed and causing mass panic and widespread destruction, but nothing's going to make politicians care about their people.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)10:24:29 No.2434253
    >>2434218
    and apparently saying nothing of any value or sense seems to be the thing in yours.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)10:25:03 No.2434257
    >>2434245
    >nothing's going to make politicians care about their people.

    Oh really? How about sticking the receiving end of a gun down their throats?
    >> !9yiGHoSTCM 12/14/08(Sun)10:26:53 No.2434272
    >>2434233
    THANK YOU

    SOMEONE WITH SOME FUCKING SENSE. It took you long enough, bro.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)10:29:12 No.2434288
    >>2434257
    That only lasts until the gun is gone. Then they hire more security and get all paranoid and turn everything into a military state. And you cannot riot in a military state, it's suicide. You know, it's all fun and games killing cops and kids with your antics until somebody rolls up with a tank and starts firing at anyone not obeying the curfew.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)10:31:17 No.2434295
    The government should fear its people, not the opposite.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)10:35:21 No.2434321
    Well I don't know about you tiny cocked, limey faggots but I find it ironic that the US won it's independence in a rebellion but the idea of rebellion (in any form, not just violent) is extremely taboo today.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)10:38:36 No.2434340
    >>2434321
    You won your independence because at the time, nobody gave a shit about the US, and we were kinda busy curb-stomping the French to worry about a shitty little colony half way around the world.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)10:39:39 No.2434345
    >>2434340
    That, and the king at the time was a fucking schizo.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)10:40:13 No.2434349
    >>2434295
    Ideally, neither the government should fear the people, nor the people fear the government.

    Ideally, the government should RESPECT the people, and in turn the people should respect the government.
    >> Soviet Lesbian !hdwrehqOns 12/14/08(Sun)10:41:17 No.2434354
    If the government is afraid of the people, it will retaliate very quickly and make the people afraid of it.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)10:42:33 No.2434362
    >>2434245 PEACE THROUGH POWER
    Yep, people who are so oppressed by political power they've lost the will to fight engendering peace.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)10:42:54 No.2434366
    >>2434321
    >the US won it's independence in a rebellion

    That's how any country wins its independence, dumbass. Politely asking your oppressive rulers to fuck off doesn't get you anywhere.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)10:47:00 No.2434392
    >>2434366

    It worked for Gandhi.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)10:47:34 No.2434394
    >>2434366

    Hey nigger, winning your independence from some faggy Europeans doesn't equal overthrowing an oppressive NATIONAL government.

    France didn't rebel for independence from France now did they cunt?
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)10:49:17 No.2434404
    >>2434366
    your forgot to say inb4 canada
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)10:52:18 No.2434414
    Vote/work for the Liberal Democrats
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)10:56:18 No.2434437
    The only thing i think the UK should rage over is TV licenses that i hear about. I bet they might slip up a reason for it, but as far as i know, i heard about it on 4chan. it might not even be real.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)10:58:26 No.2434451
    >>2434437

    tv licenses are real

    takes the piss
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:01:30 No.2434470
    And britfags bitch about America.

    This is why I stopped listening to them.

    Britiain is an oppressive country with imperialistic tendencies as well.

    Fucking hypocrites. inb4 LOL AMERICA IS TEH WORST SO ITS OK
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:03:19 No.2434476
    LOL AMERICA IS TEH WORST SO ITS OK
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:03:21 No.2434478
    >>2433093

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7782039.stm

    Something like what happened to that boy happened where I live:
    A couple years ago a 15-16 year old started throwing a tantrum, and his parents couldn't get him to stop so they called the cops, cops show up and shoot him. The kid was completely unarmed, just throwing a bitch fit. He never even came near the officer, if I remember he was just screaming at his dad or something like that. He died, and the most that happened was a headline in the local paper criticizing the incident. I think the most the officer got was a slap on the wrist. After that it just died off, and nobody gave a shit.

    Goes to show how right this guy is:
    >>2433111
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:05:50 No.2434496
    >>2434089
    >Labour is guilty of incompetence, not totalitarianism.
    Wrong. Don't be fooled into thinking they're just bumbling idiots. If you can't see they're headed that way, perhaps you should come out from the rock you seem to be living under.

    >>2433956
    I'm with you, I really want something to happen. I'm sick of having silly rules and restrictions placed on normal (generally) law abiding people, having our privacy at risk and not being able to do anything about it because not enough people seem to care, or are happy enough in their shallow lives.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:08:57 No.2434515
    Hey Britfags if you don't like your country move to Canada.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:09:59 No.2434517
    ITT: Fourteen year old self styled Tyler Durdens seduced by half-formed ideas of anarchism drawn from corporate marketing of said ideal argue over things they don't fully understand.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:10:55 No.2434524
    >>2434321

    >idea of rebellion (in any form, not just violent) is extremely taboo today.

    /facepalm.

    You never went to a public school did you? Do you even live in the US?? I mean, because absolutely noooone of the douche baggy little teenagers here think rebellion is the coolest fad evar. Nope. We never had a punk movement, and doing heroin was never seen as a main stream fashion. Yep, none of kids here are angsty little asswipes who cut themselves, or cover their bodies in tattoos and piercings. Yessiree, everything here is just like a Leave it to Beaver episode...
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:12:08 No.2434531
    >>2434524
    >We never had a punk movement, and doing heroin was never seen as a main stream fashion

    OOOh because wearing shitty clothes totally changed how the government treated us right?

    Right?

    GTFO AND NEVER ATTEMPT TO MAKE A FORMULATED THOUGHT AGAIN
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:12:47 No.2434536
    >>2434437
    Actually, I don't particularly mind the TV License thing, it pays for the BBC and they do tend to come out with some pretty decent stuff.

    What I do object to is the harassment and deception surrounding it. It's never clear initially that you don't need a license just because you have a TV, and if you're address isn't in their little DB (particularly if it's an address they know students usually live at), they'll constantly send letters and threats until you tell them you don't have a TV/need a license and hand over your details. The rules surrounding shared tenancy and TV licenses are also pretty vague.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:13:05 No.2434537
    >>2434392

    Wasn't he that boxer?
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:14:57 No.2434550
    >>2434392
    Ghandi was a punk ass, who actually slowed down the Indian Independence movement. Pacifism protects the state.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:18:36 No.2434573
    >>2434524
    Punk happened 30 years ago. Today, counterculture is dead. Everything that was once edgy, rebellious and underground has been absorbed into and sanitized by the mainstream, then sold back to clueless consumeroids by slick marketing suits.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:18:51 No.2434574
    >>2434550

    Is there any solid evidence for that? Not baiting here, I'm genuinely interested and I don't know a huge amount about the subject..
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:21:55 No.2434602
    ITT butthurt commies
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:23:04 No.2434611
    Part of me can't believe so many of you support stupid shit like rioting, but I'm not really surprised. Rioting and violence are just ignorant responses to problems, when people who lack cognitive ability take to action, this is what happens. You're all fucking 16 year old idiots if you really think this is an appropriate response.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:24:57 No.2434624
    Because demonizing the police and strengthening the divisions in society is the mature and rational way to deal with problems. You heard it here first folks.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:25:19 No.2434626
    >>2433140
    So you're saying that the criminals among the 'pakis' are the ones to be scared of.

    Much like the criminals among whites.

    So why make the distinction?

    Fucking BNP voters.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:25:28 No.2434627
    >>2434531

    Allow me re-quote, because apparently you didn't catch on the first time:

    >>idea of rebellion (in any form, not just violent) is extremely taboo today.
    >rebellion in any form... is extremely taboo...

    Please, for your own sake, learn to fucking read.

    >>2434573

    The point was that the "idea" of rebellion is nauseatingly mainstream. To say that the "idea" of it "in any form" is taboo is just idiotic.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:25:36 No.2434629
    >>2434624
    This is 4chan, half of the people in this thread are under 18
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:26:55 No.2434642
    >>2434611
    >You're all fucking 16 year old idiots if you really think this is an appropriate response.

    You could at least contribute to the discussion by giving examples of what you believe an appropriate response to be.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:29:12 No.2434659
    >>2434642
    Maybe trying to kill members of the government that they hate instead of DURR DURR BREAK SHIT
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:30:29 No.2434671
    >>2434659
    Killing is an act of violence, is it not?
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:31:31 No.2434683
    >>2434659
    Yes, because killing innocent politicians who are probably no more than cogs in the machine and have very little individual power is the grown-up way of doing things, isn't it?
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:32:07 No.2434687
    Brethren, arise, arise! Strike for your lives and liberties. Now is the day and the hour. Let every man and woman throughout the land do this, and the days of opression are numbered. You cannot be more oppressed than you have been -- you cannot suffer greater cruelties than you have already. Rather die free men than live to be slaves. Remember that you are 60 MILLION!
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:32:55 No.2434690
    >>2434642
    Maybe an intellectual response to this, rioting is stupid protesting isn't getting people in higher places to intervene isn't there's a plethora of things you can do.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:33:20 No.2434693
    >>2434517
    ITT: 18-21 year-olds who think they their few years out of school and molly-coddling gives them the right to be patronising twats.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:33:23 No.2434695
    were theyy anarchists???
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:35:46 No.2434717
    >>2434683
    the risk of getting assassinated is part of the job, if they don't like it they can go flip burgers or stock shelves at Wal Mart
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:37:24 No.2434729
    Rather than rioting, why not boycott mainstream media in all its forms? Turn off the radio, turn off the TV, stop supporting Big Content, and cancel your wireless and Internet services.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:37:44 No.2434732
    >>2434611
    Protip: Peaceful protests have never accomplished anything significant.

    If you want to change your government, you need to get angry, and you need to start smashing things, possibly starting with your favorite politicians' head. All the old people in power are those who grew up during the "peaceful protest" years, and they know exactly how to deal with it:

    Ignore them.

    Peaceful protesters are afraid of their government.
    Violent protesters are not.
    >> Pizza !rWNBkCs4.2 12/14/08(Sun)11:39:13 No.2434745
         File :1229272753.jpg-(20 KB, 300x295, Sexpistolsemianarchysingle.jpg)
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    Because the UK hates the Sex Pistols
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:41:15 No.2434766
    >>2434732
    When has violent protest led to something better?
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:41:40 No.2434772
    >>2434683

    There's no such thing as an innocent politician.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:41:44 No.2434773
    >>2434729
    >cancel your wireless and Internet services.
    FUCK YEAH CUT OFF YOUR OWN COMMUNICATIONS!
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:42:14 No.2434778
    >>2434766
    When has peaceful protest led to something better?
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:42:16 No.2434779
    >>2433093
    >anarchists
    >uniform

    troll.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:43:07 No.2434781
    >>2434773
    Enjoy your wallet-raping for crap service, bandwidth caps, and government monitoring.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:43:14 No.2434783
    >>2434611
    It's a last resort. When the people have had enough of trying and failing at other means and failing to change anything or get their voices heard. Rioting doesn't just fight the country's rule, it fights the apathy of the majority of people in that country.

    Protesting peacefully and petitioning the government doesn't affect many apathetic people, who may not be happy with things the way they are but don't want to risk upsetting what lives they have now. Rioting brings it to their doorsteps, forces more people to take notice and realise there is a problem and that something needs to be done.

    If you know of a more effective method of forcing more people to wake up and change things, I'd be happy to hear it, because personally I realise rioting isn't an ideal solution.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:44:58 No.2434800
    >>2434729

    The problem with that is that you lose your main means of communication with the outside world. And, by outside world I don't mean your next door neighbors. A better alternative would be to stop all the consumerism you can, and not hold down a job. I mean, you obviously have to obtain the means to support yourself in some manner, but rather than working a job where a good percentage of what you make goes to the government, make your money doing things for other people: mowing lawns, watching people's children, dealing drugs... those sorts of things. You're still going to need to find a way to obtain food and other things, but try to avoid buying them from large chains (stick to local, personally owned, veggie stands and such).
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:45:22 No.2434804
    >>2434781
    oh you were talking about UK internet
    >> Gossamer !gE3FNhkbv2 12/14/08(Sun)11:45:46 No.2434809
    Greece. it's called Greece.
    not Greek.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:46:37 No.2434817
    >>2434804
    Uh, no. Wireless and broadband service are utter shit in the U.S. as well.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:50:10 No.2434848
    >>2434817
    Yes America does suck. Enjoy your shit country, buddy
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:50:45 No.2434853
    >>2434766
    HURR Iranian revolution, End of Apartheid, Spanish Civil War

    peaceful protesting is just bullshit magical thinking, maybe if we just sit here and are nice enough people, the state will stop using it's violence against us.
    Anyone that thinks Peaceful protest works is delusional.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:53:54 No.2434880
    >>2434853

    Yeah, absolutely nothing changed in the US in the 1960s, right?
    >> Casanova Frankenstein !HggsKt0/NM 12/14/08(Sun)11:54:05 No.2434882
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    >>2434853
    MLK and Ghandi?
    They got shit done with peaceful protests.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:54:07 No.2434883
    >>2434778
    Cool retort, bro.

    How about you answer my question and then maybe i'll answer yours.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:56:36 No.2434911
    >>2434882
    they did? lol yea right...
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:58:58 No.2434928
    >>2434880
    >>2434882
    Malcolm X and the Black panthers did more for civil rights than MLK, if it wasn't for Militant Blacks nothing would have changed.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)11:59:22 No.2434932
    >>2434853
    But the state isn't using violence against us. In the examples you gave the state WAS using violence and so the people were violent back.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)12:01:42 No.2434943
    I just wanted to hop in here and say that /r9k/ is really good today.
    Hell, there's a classical music thread going on that's AMAZING, and now we have a debate on whether peaceful or violent protesting is better.

    I love /r9k/ so much right now.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)12:04:08 No.2434966
    Violence works: See the American Revolution, the Bolshivik uprising, etc.

    Peaceful protest works: See Gandhi, MLK, the fall of the Berlin wall, etc.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)12:04:18 No.2434969
    HAHA OH WOW

    >Iranian revolution
    Led to a Islamic Dictatorship.

    >End of Apartheid
    Led to a corrupt democracy and the consistent decline of South African living standards since 1994. Poverty doubled and the country is pretty much a one party state by now. The legacy of the ANC is 25% unemployment, more than 50% poverty, the highest murder rate in the world and one of the lowest life expectancies in Africa.

    >Spanish Civil War
    Fascist dictatorship imposed. Anarchists movement crushed. In fact anarchists and communists de-estabilized the Second Spanish Republic so much that they effectively gave an excuse for Franco to take power under the argument that democracy was weak and about to fall into communist hands.

    I think protests can lead to some good things under certain situations, but you gave some of the worst possible examples and you are fucking retard.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)12:04:27 No.2434973
    >>2434928
    No they didn't. MLK didn't get the Nobel Peace Prize for doing nothing.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)12:04:37 No.2434975
    Why the fuck is there a capitalist/socialist shitstorm in this fucking thread?

    Authoritarian shitbag governments exist on both sides of the spectrum. Enjoy preferring one dictatorship over another.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)12:05:41 No.2434980
    Is war a variation of violent protest? If it does you hippies aint got shit.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)12:08:17 No.2434994
    >>2434969
    >Led to a Islamic Republic.
    While I don't disagree with you, I had to fix this. Get your facts straight.

    And before you spout, "lol just liek the DEMOCRATIC people's REPUBLIC of korea amirite," no, Iran definitely has some democratic elements, moreso than Saudi Arabia.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)12:09:11 No.2435005
    sage for FIGHT THE POWA DESTROY PEOPLE'S PERSONAL PROPERTY THAT'LL SHOW THE STATE
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)12:09:19 No.2435006
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    I think the people in this thread would enjoy this book.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)12:10:51 No.2435020
    >>2434994

    Moreso then the vast majority of their Arab neighbors.

    They also treat their women much better, too.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)12:12:52 No.2435029
    >>2434994
    All political parties must be approved by a non-elected "Guardian's Council", and decisions by the Prime Minister can (and regularly are) vetoed by the non-elected "Supreme Leader".

    It's better than Saudi Arabia, marginally, but it's VERY FAR from being a democracy.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)12:13:23 No.2435031
    Violent and Peaceful protests aren't effective methods in today's society.

    There's a reason why we associate violent protesters with underaged high schoolers who shop at hot topic, and peaceful protesters as hippie scum. it's because these stereotypes are extremely accurate to what we see today.
    >> Casanova Frankenstein !HggsKt0/NM 12/14/08(Sun)12:14:22 No.2435038
    >>2434928
    uh, no.

    If anything, they set the civil rights movement back a few steps.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)12:15:17 No.2435044
    >>2435029
    >It's better than Saudi Arabia, marginally
    >MARGINALLY

    You are either giving Saudi Arabia too much credit, or Iran not enough. I really hope it's the latter.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)12:15:26 No.2435046
    >>2435031
    > peaceful protesters as hippie scum.

    You are way off the mark. Peacful protest has moved away from being seen as a hippy movement.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)12:15:32 No.2435048
    >>2435029

    Given that they elected Achmandinjihad, it's a good thing there are people who can overrule him.

    Iran is full of the same stupid fundie rednecks voting in idiots that the US is plagued with. Wonderfully ironic...
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)12:15:54 No.2435051
    >>2435031
    I doubt kids who shop at hot topic would be in a black bloc.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)12:16:40 No.2435058
    >>2434524
    I have noticed on here that there is a lot of misconceptions about what type of person anarchists are. Many of them think its the 15 year old mallpunk kid who buys an A patch at their local hot topic and rages when they listen to their angsty music. But those are not real anarchists and if push did ever come to shove, they would go back to their mommys house for protection. They only pretend that "rebellion is cool" but thats only if they get to keep their own comfortable life. I have met real anarchists though and although I dont agree with them, they are not angsty 15 year olds, they are very serious about their political views and are in their element when they are protesting or rioting. They will even do it when they are horribly outnumbered and will no doubt get beat. When shit is going down they will grab a Molotov cocktail and join the party. No, the people rioting in Greece are not you local american Blink fan that has never lived on his own. I dont think destroying everything in sight is a particularly good thing to do, but I definitely understand that they have a right to be pissed at their government and to let that be shown
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)12:22:46 No.2435096
    >>2435048
    Look into the previous leader, Katami, he was a reformist and he was not allowed to do absolutely ANYTHING. In fact he had to run under the Islamic party because all pro-Western parties were banned, and once in power his hands were bound by the real leadership of the country. Eventually this led to violent student protests that were brutally supressed.

    Like I said before, very far from actual democracy.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)12:24:40 No.2435114
    >>2435058
    there are a lot of misconceptions about anarchists here,
    there should be an "I'm an Anarchist, ask me anything" thread, but there are no computers in dumpsters, so were out of luck.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)12:25:14 No.2435122
    >>2435096
    And it's far from a dictatorship.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)12:29:51 No.2435153
    >>2435122
    Not really.

    1. No freedom of speech, newspapers banned, internet censored

    2. No anti-government protests allowed.

    3. No real opposition parties allowed.

    4. "Elected" Prime Minister has his hands bound by the Supreme Leader

    Ever talked to a real Iranian?
    Only naive idiots buy the idea that the country is democratic.
    >> lol@lol.com Mirrored !EhE8ram93U 12/14/08(Sun)12:33:19 No.2435184
    >>2433093
    You fucking retard.

    Greece is not exactly a better place now that there is no order. You'll find a lot of people are getting robbed, beaten, raped, and murdered for no real reason.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)12:37:13 No.2435206
    >>2435153
    I don't see anyone here saying it's democratic. But whoever says it's on the same level as North Korea or Saudi Arabia is deluded.

    And I've been to Iran and spoken to Iranians in Iran.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)12:41:31 No.2435236
    >>2435206
    If you have been there then you are clearly a terrorist. Please dont come back to the USA
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)12:46:10 No.2435268
    >>2435236
    I'm not an American citizen nor have I ever even been to the United States.

    Enjoy your peace and security.
    >> Gwiber !!6AmcGpcIWu2 12/14/08(Sun)12:57:17 No.2435362
    >>2433465

    Yeah, he made an American remake of a UK cop/time travel show.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)13:17:18 No.2435546
    >>2433186

    yeah i agree cos HURR DURRRR PEACEFUL PROTEST ACCOMPLISH SO MUCH

    see: demonstration against the iraq war in london

    ACCOMPLISHED SO MUCH THANK GOD IF THEY HADN'T PROTESTED WE MIGHT HAVE GONE TO WAR
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)13:39:32 No.2435712
    >>2434611

    FFS TO EVERYONE IN THIS THREAD ARGUING THAT PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT THE RIOTS ARE JUST STUPID 14 YEAR OLDS

    WTF DO YOU EXPECT? THE YOUNG ARE SUPPOSED TO RESPOND TO INJUSTICE LIKE THIS IT'S HOW THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO DEAL WITH IT STOP ACTING LIKE EVERYONE UNDER 19 SHOULD ALREADY BE A SUBSERVIENT DICKWAD IN A SUIT WHO IS FULLY ABSORBED INTO THE "LET'S ALL NOT DO ANYTHING REMOTELY EFFECTIVE IN TACKLING THESE ISSUES" MENTALITY OF ADULT LIFE

    /rage
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)13:51:34 No.2435770
    >>2433186

    French riots in '68 were epic in every way. There is civic unrest for the sake of civil unrest and then there is civil unrest.

    France is a much better place because of it.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)13:55:02 No.2435793
    >>2435770
    and it spawned the situationist international, which is pretty cool.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)14:07:18 No.2435883
    Get a job you fucking bums.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)14:14:02 No.2435929
    there's a girl in the background standing like 'ooooh yeah, throw that shit, i don't give a fuck!' while she stands far enough away the police won't beat her

    i like violence though, so i support this
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)14:15:14 No.2435944
    >>2435883
    WHEN YOU GET A JOB YOU BECOME PART OF THE SYSTEM!
    YOU CALL IT GROWING UP, I CALL IT GIVING UP!
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)14:18:45 No.2435972
    >>2435712
    How is it responding to injustice by burning innocent people's livelihoods? I would call that more injustice, more unjust at least than the police who accidentally shot one person.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)16:04:23 No.2437034
    >>2435184

    No one has gotten raped. Or for that matter, killed, apart from the kid the police shot.

    Please refrain from forming opinions on subjects you are casually ignorant of.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)17:26:45 No.2437984
    >>2435546
    This post highlights the core problem plaguing our non-violent options as distressed citizens. In the US, at least, peaceful protesting has been marginalized by the media.

    During the build-up to the Iraq invasion, people all across the US protested, but the media - who largely supported Bush and his intent to invade - failed to adequately report on the opposition. If protests were mentioned at all, they were reported to be in small numbers, and derided as unpatriotic, enemy sympathizers. How do you fight that?

    Those protesting knew better, but the enormous remainder of American citizens were misled. Protesting the war never ceased, but you'd never know because the people were contained in "free speech zones" far away from the public and press.

    One ironic casualty of our increasingly inter-connected society is that we speak less and less with our neighbors. We have lost the tight-knit social fabric that the previous generations shared. As such, citizens are more than ever dependent on a media easily controlled by special interests that rarely intersect with the interests of those citizens.

    Surely, these protests will no longer be ignored if they turn violent.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)18:52:34 No.2438863
    right on.

    the people shouldn't be afraid of the government.
    the government should be afraid of the people.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)19:01:43 No.2438951
    OP is a faggot. Greece is a borderline third world country. Stop bawwwing about cctv cameras, recording what you do in a PUBLIC space is not an invasion of privacy.

    The British government is one of the most stable and effectively run political entities in the world. Go die in a fire OP.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)19:03:36 No.2438963
    the only disappointing thing about the riots in Greece is that police have resisted using lethal force. All these thugs are doing is burning peoples hard earned property.
    >> fashion diva !3wJfpCMhKc 12/14/08(Sun)19:04:09 No.2438969
    I hope athens gets killed
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)19:04:47 No.2438981
    when's all this going to happen in amerikkka?
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)19:08:56 No.2439014
    >>2433956

    PROTIP

    THE ID SCHEME HAS ALREADY BEEN ACTIVATED - IMMIGRANTS ARE BEING ISSUED WITH THEM.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)19:10:08 No.2439021
    >>2438963
    Yes. Send army to the streets, I always say. These so called "anarchists" are a disgrace to those whose name they chant on streets.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)19:10:56 No.2439028
    >>2438981

    When the oil runs out.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)19:10:58 No.2439029
    >>2438951

    ENJOY YOUR EVERY MOVE ON THE INTERBUTTS BEING RECORDED YOU FAGGOT.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)19:15:29 No.2439074
    >>2439029

    90% of the population carries a cellphone with a video camera on it; they can record you and put it on youtube for millions of people to see. Googlemaps offers people actual pictures of where you live. The idea of privacy in in todays world is a joke. CCTV cameras are simply moving with the times.
    >> Anonymous 12/14/08(Sun)22:35:28 No.2441272
    >>2439074

    The difference is, you can choose to record yourself; you can choose to put yourself online...
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)02:25:28 No.2443427
    >>2439074
    We've had CCTV cameras far longer than google maps and youtube. Who's moving with the times again?

    >>2439014
    Are you sure? I think you're giving the government a bit too much credit. That, at least, would actually be slightly useful. No, I think it's only foreign students (most of whom are only here for the academic year) at the moment. They seem to be claiming these foreign students are all going to fake universities just to live here. Or some horseshit designed to get people liking the idea, while not pissing off the people who cry "OMG Racist!" at anyone who suggests we have an immigration problem.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)02:37:22 No.2443542
    >>2439014

    Amerifag here, if they did that in the US I wouldn't object. After all they're not citizens, and not afforded the same protections as citizens in their home country.

    Dunno if the same applies in Britian.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)03:04:29 No.2443792
    >>2434800
    I've done this for over a decade. Its actually pretty easy to live off the grid. I even have a house that is financed by the previous owner I bought it off of. The only real difference is that I pay omre for groceries, and I dont buy things on credit, if i want something I need to save the cash for it. But since I grow dope thats not really a problem. I do pay property taxes but thats civil and I dont mind, as I have no problem with them.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)03:10:09 No.2443843
    We're all technically immigrants anyway so shut the fuck up.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)03:20:20 No.2443936
    I fucking hate England, Scottish independance plz
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)03:22:16 No.2443951
    Forgive me for asking but, why is this happening in Greece?
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)03:29:46 No.2444017
    >>2443843

    I hate that saying, you're only an immigrant if you've immigrated. I was born and lived all my life in the same country, I'm not an immigrant.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)04:01:13 No.2444285
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    Here, this can be an emblem for your revolution.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)04:04:20 No.2444310
    >>2441272
    You have no power over me, if i take out my phone, and record you; i can put your picture/ video of you online. You've probably been photographed 1-5 times a week, and don't even realize it.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)04:10:50 No.2444348
    >>2444310

    And now Facebook is leading the way in organizing the random surveillance people capture. In a few years, people will be able to query a search engine for where you ate last Thursday. I'm all for it.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)04:13:45 No.2444365
    >>2443951
    Cops fire warning shots, kill teenager. Police say it's an accident, witnesses say it was intentional, people go batshit insane.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)04:25:50 No.2444453
    Well,OP is being a little disingenuous. There was a spate of massive unrest, rioting and rebellion in Britain in the 1970s/1980s/early 1990s. In the 1970s more days were lost to strikes in the UK than any other country in Europe. As for rioting and civil unrest, remember Brixton, Toxteth, etc? The miners' strike? The Wapping print union strike? The anti-Poll Tax and anti-Criminal Justice Bill riots?

    Greece has a tradition of popular revolt in part stemming from the experience of military rule which ended in 1974. There was an attempted communist revolution and civil war after the second world war.

    Also, Greece has high youth unemployment and a massive gap between rich and poor - like Britain in the 1980s. If anything, the riots show that Greece is behind Britain, where capitalism has created a social peace of sorts through higher living standards, yes, but also repressive anti-union and anti-worker legislation.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)04:31:11 No.2444487
    What really happened in Athens was a in-cold-blood assasimation of a 15 years old boy by a policeman. But the problems are too many and too serious also. Thats why so many people protest against the goverment but also against the corrupted political system.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)04:33:03 No.2444495
    Civil disobedience, that's not our problem. our problem is that people are obedient all over the world in the face of poverty and starvation and stupidity, and war, and cruelty.
    Our problem is that people are obedient while the jails are full of petty thieves, and all the while the grand thieves are running the country.
    That's our problem.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)04:48:37 No.2444607
    This whole thread screams "Massive Troll" to me. Seriously you guys, some of you should know better.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)07:55:38 No.2445865
    >>2443792

    Yeah, I've known a couple people who live like that. They don't all make their money dealing drugs, though. One of the main things the government is dependent on you for is money. It needs something to keep the economy going. They do this by collecting taxes from your paycheck, and from your consumerism. If you really want to boycott your government the most effective way you're going to do it is to stop fueling them with your money.

    However, this is just for personal ethics when one no longer wishes to contribute to their government. As far as actually effecting the government: The majority of the population would have to be in it with you.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)08:03:50 No.2445895
    >>2444495
    well said . i would have to agree this is a good point
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)08:09:13 No.2445916
    Puberty is a bitch ant it?

    If the shit hits the fan, you and your familly are probably going down, kiddo.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)08:18:54 No.2445952
    You're a fucking moron OP. You see we're in a bit of economic trouble - nothing anyone with a real job can't cope with - and you want to burn a pinnacle of civilization to the ground? Fucking retard. If you think it's bad now what the hell will you think of it when, with no government, the country would be ruled by thugs and there'd be no NHS to turn to when you came in the firing line.

    There'd sure as hell be no fucking internet for you to whine like an idiot on, idiot boy.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)08:26:32 No.2445989
    >>2444310

    Recognize there's a difference between having your picture taken arbitrarily by someone on the street with a cellphone and government-run monitoring stations controlling a network mesh of always-on security cameras recording and indexing the movements and behaviors of the entire population at large.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)08:33:04 No.2446022
    >>2445952

    Civilization is a 12,000 year succession of mounting atrocities and irrational nationalist-fueled violence advanced by tyrants and willing, scared lapdogs. Try educating yourself and reading up on the original affluent society; heirarchy, government and a monopoly of violence are newer inventions in human history and the probability of our sustained existence is more perilous now than ever. Nevermind the tens of thousands of perfect equilibrium to come in advance of the present day.

    The UK is a shithole.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)08:34:02 No.2446029
    >>2446022
    Civilization is far older than 12,000 years old depending on your definition of it. What do you think civilization is?
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)08:38:33 No.2446054
    >>2446029

    Large settlements and agarianism. I pulled that number off the top of my head from hearing it sometime before, but checking it again it doesn't seem far off.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)08:39:31 No.2446060
    >>2446054
    These are very vague words here. What's a large settlement? 100,000 people? 100 people? 100,000,000,000,000 people?
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)08:39:51 No.2446062
    >>2446029

    communal living in cities and towns. why, what did YOU think that civil meant, you pig-disgusting illiterate fag?
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)08:44:38 No.2446088
    >>2446060

    Non-trivial and historically notable numbers of people. You're splitting hairs for lack meanignful commentary. 12,000 BC is a widely accepted date of the first instances of sedentarization of nomadic tribes in the Middle East.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)08:47:18 No.2446101
    >>2445989

    In the big picture, there really isn't. Why defend notions of privacy when you don't have any?
    >> v64x8z7 12/15/08(Mon)08:51:46 No.2446122
    the "anarchists" in greece know shit about real anarchism.
    Just a bunch of kids attacking policemen.
    I'm not saying that's bad. It's actually good, so the state is kept in line with the will of the people.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)08:55:09 No.2446137
    >>2446101

    There isn't a difference between the degrees of privacy you're afforded in the sense of not being recorded, there is a meangingful difference with regard to who has this information, how much of it they have, what they can extrapolate from it, and how the information will be used. Government has no entitlement to that in any society with pretenses toward democratic rule.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)08:56:56 No.2446143
    >>2446122

    Anarchism is a well-documented and sophisticated political movement in Greece with a long historical background and acknowledgement among the general public. They clearly know plenty more about it than you do.
    >> v64x8z7 12/15/08(Mon)09:13:03 No.2446212
    >>2446143

    With these grievances in mind, young people (who would not normally see themselves as revolutionaries and are a far-cry from the 'extremists' Prime Minister Costas Karamanlis says are behind the disturbances) have begun stockpiling stones, rocks and crushed marble slabs from Salonika in the north to the resort islands of Corfu and Crete in the south.

    They have also started selling them on - at three stones a euro - to other protesters whose parents may live in Hollywood-style opulence, or indeed on the breadline, but who are bonded by a common desire to hurl them at that hated symbol of authority: the police.

    ...

    Within an hour of the boy's death thousands of protesters had gathered in Exarchia's lawless central square screaming, 'cops, pigs, murderers,' and wanting revenge. At first, it is true, the assortment of self-styled anarchists who have long colonised Exarchia piggy-backed on the tragedy, seeing it as the perfect opportunity to live out their nihilistic goals of wreaking havoc. But then middle-class kids - children had got good degrees at universities in Britain but back in Greece were unable to find work in a system that thrives on graft, cronyism and nepotism - joined the protests and very quickly it became glaringly clear that this was their moment, too. Theirs was a frustration not only born of pent-up anger but outrage at the way ministers in the scandal-tainted conservative government have also enriched themselves in their five short years in power.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/14/greece-riots-youth-poverty-comment

    Anarchy my ass.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)09:22:20 No.2446255
    >>2446212

    ...what is your point? That acting in concurrence with existing public opinion or joining with a range of social and political demographics rather than playing class war somehow diminishes them?
    >> v64x8z7 12/15/08(Mon)09:26:45 No.2446273
    >>2446255
    point is
    Clashing with the authority in the form of throwing rocks at policemen and shouting a few words is NOT anarchy.
    Anarchy is not random and barbaric. Anarchy is a struggle beyond petty rock-throwing students.

    Just proves that you and the mindless hordes of greek students know shit about anarchy.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)09:27:15 No.2446274
    america needs this shit too. im tired with the government and this federal reserve bullshit.

    i'm all down for anarchy. no, you paranoid fags, people aren't going to eat each other up.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)09:33:34 No.2446303
    >>2446273

    Really, now? Wow, thank you for your complete lack of insight and irrelevant, tangential supporting arguments and unwarranted condescension. Taking to the streets to drive back the main appartus of state power and hurling rocks at police is not an end unto itself but it's an excellent start. Enjoy being an ineffectual pacifist weakling who will never achieve anything.
    >> v64x8z7 12/15/08(Mon)09:37:59 No.2446328
    >>2446303
    Ohoho I see, a good start. It's obvious that the masses of angry greeks are totally organized and know exactly what they want (from the goverment)
    That's why they throw rocks at the police (who have done nothing to the economy nor the job situation), to prove that they expect radical new economic policies.

    enjoy being a faggot who uses words he just found in the dictionary to sound intelligent.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)09:39:24 No.2446345
    When government doesn't listen, then what other action can people take?
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)09:41:50 No.2446363
    they could do the monster mash
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)09:42:08 No.2446367
    >>2446273

    Agreed with this robot - anarchy will not come from throwing rocks at police, but from hard work organising from the ground up.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)09:43:30 No.2446379
    >>2446363
    Direct action via the Monster Mash.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)09:53:01 No.2446430
    >>2446328

    It's ordinary people who skirmish with police, not solely self-declared anarchists. Why should they be organized? They're driven by open disregard for the sanctity of state institutions and police, above and beyond petty ideological fixations; it's anarchism at a non-political and gut level and it represents a movement away from the fringes. They aren't asking the government for anything, they're enacting retribution for failed promises and its inability to provide for them.

    >>2446367

    How about both?
    >> v64x8z7 12/15/08(Mon)09:56:24 No.2446455
    >>2446430
    >Anarchism at a non political and gut level

    just stop right there
    thanks
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)09:57:21 No.2446463
    The British political system is designed to create little mini-dictatorships, in the Roman sense of the word. Canada is the same too. In my experience such a political system kills people's hope of change and makes them believe they are powerless.
    We're also all well-off and thus afraid to lose our status.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)10:01:11 No.2446491
    >>2446455

    Once again, your point?
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)10:08:40 No.2446536
    >>2446455

    Do you seriously think a group of useless hippies and picturesque outsiders forming organized communes and projects to circle-jerk with their "alternative" ideas and culture is more worthwhile than a deep, fundamental mistrust of government instilled in the public sentiment? Get over yourself.
    >> v64x8z7 12/15/08(Mon)10:11:18 No.2446553
    >>2446491
    >Clashing with the authority in the form of throwing >rocks at policemen and shouting a few words is NOT >anarchy.
    >Anarchy is not random and barbaric. Anarchy is a >struggle beyond petty rock-throwing students.

    Civil unrest in greece =/= anarchism
    >> twitchy 12/15/08(Mon)10:15:13 No.2446580
         File :1229354113.jpg-(14 KB, 230x288, darwin-small.thumbnail.jpg)
    14 KB
    Anarchy's only hope of being a workable and stable system - is if all the needs people have are guaranteed:

    water, food, shelter, access to social validation.
    then you can go after your own self-actualization.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)10:17:12 No.2446586
    >>2446430

    I think that explosions of violence are more nihilistic symbols of anomie rather than being anti-caiptalist, anti-state per se. That's not to say that it isn't always the case (it shows what you might call the "moral economy of the crowd").

    At some point, if the revolution ever comes, the people may need to be armed (a la Paris Commune, Spain, etc.) but it take a grassroots culture of working class solidarity and power that is already there before we can radically change society.

    Having said that, I think a revolutionary anarchist/libertarian socialist society is a long way off. But things could change.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)10:18:12 No.2446599
    As far as i have followed this thread, the rioters are not fond of "government oppresion" - they want individual freedom. That makes them no different from Libertarians, exept everybody knows what Libertfags want (private property rights and protection and civilfreedom). There are a bunch of posts which is pointing that another poster does not know a thing about anarchism, is there anyone who knows, and didn't spend all his fucking life to try and understand this concept?
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)10:22:55 No.2446632
    >>2446599
    There are 27 types of anarchy listed on wikipedia:
    which one is the correst one?
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)10:23:23 No.2446633
    >>2446632
    correct one
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)10:24:54 No.2446641
    >>2446633
    And if there is no state, who will enforce all those anarchistic ideas, and will prevent them form overtaking each other?
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)10:26:27 No.2446650
    >>2446641
    A lack of state is a way of saying no hierarchy, so the community would, ideally, find ways to enforce rules. Banishment and excommunication are classic examples of ways this can be done peacefully.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)10:27:21 No.2446657
    >>2446641

    why would anyone want oppression back once they have freedom?
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)10:32:04 No.2446686
    >>2446657
    Beacuse it is the way people are build. At some point of time there was a state od beeing that resembled that of anarchy. It has muted into what it is today. I think that is the ultimate debunk of anarchy.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)10:33:26 No.2446698
    >>2446650
    Hierarchy is as natural as ageing. It makes everything more civilized - weaker people are not killed, but fostered by the way of subsistance. No hierarchy = killing of the would-be dominated.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)10:33:53 No.2446702
         File :1229355233.gif-(179 KB, 396x532, baaah hobitsiss.gif)
    179 KB
    Any movement sparked off by Bilbo Baggins is automatically awesome.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)10:35:51 No.2446712
    >>2446641
    >>2446686

    Even the most oppresive political ideologies rest on public acceptance at some level. This is one reason why "propaganda by the deed" laregely disappeared from the anarchism years ago, because it can't by any means be imposed on anyone.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)10:37:19 No.2446723
    >>2446686

    the history of humanity is better seen as an ongoing struggle towards liberty - anarchy is the logical end-pointof this process.

    [That doesn't mean I see it as the End of History, Fukuyama-style. Rather, it is the end of human pre-history and the beginning of a phase of higher achievement.]
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)10:38:44 No.2446730
    >>2446712
    I believe you will say that democracy is rigged if i say that do it by democracy, but i think that is what is to be done. The bolshevic Worked day and night to print and redistribute pamphlets. Day and night to inform of their ideology. and still they had to overthrow the government.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)10:43:52 No.2446750
    Well Bakunin and otherrs, most notably Thoreau in that thing about civil disobedience, argued that democracy is a shit way of getting what you see as morally right because essentially you are throwing your opinion in a basket and hoping others are throwing their' in the same basket, instead of actually doing something physical. I think they both say that eventually the minority will become the majority, which is interesting to think about.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)10:43:55 No.2446751
    >>2446723
    State = protection form people who would violate your liberty by taking a litle bit of yours. A balance is dependant on the culture od a civilization.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)10:47:12 No.2446769
    >>2446750
    That is a point for dictatorship.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)10:50:53 No.2446789
    not at all, because dictatorship takes any autonomy away from average people, though Bakunin did believe in some weird spin on the dictatorship of the proletariat man.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)10:52:31 No.2446797
    >>2446789
    And you (i think) would want to take the autonomy of the avare person (the majority by necessity) and give it to a minority. It is the same.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)10:52:35 No.2446798
    Things like this don't role in America. Chiefly being the Vietnam War. The clashes with police and national guard where often violent (Kent State, Chicago 68'). All that violence all that suffering produced nothing. IT did not end a grossly unpopular war. It brought a huge stigma against the groups who did (the yippies and the hippies). No one wants to be a dirty hippy and people who imitate that culture tend to be (in observations) far more conservative in there lifestyle then the people who where originators of that subculture. You don't see hippies today dropping acid in mass and storming the capital in mass protests as in days yore. It is mostly a cry for attention and well pot. Protesting isn't cool. Those who do will get quickly rounded up by the authorities. If anyone learned from Nam' it was the government. Look what happened in Seattle in 99' or what happened with GOP convention this year in St. Paul. They didn't fuck around and they don't care about your rights. Our culture today will never allow what going in Greece to happen here. Unless something like the economy worsens tremendously and unemployment jumps way over 10%.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)10:54:45 No.2446812
    >>2446797
    average person
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)10:58:36 No.2446823
    >>2446751

    state=guarantor of the rights of the wealthy and powerful to remain, erm, wealthy and powerful!
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)10:58:59 No.2446824
    >>2446798
    I disagree. The vietnam war arguably ended because of intense internal pressures (the protest movement being one of them, the near collapse of the military as well) as well as plain old FAIL in vietnam
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)10:59:41 No.2446827
    >>2446823
    So there is no class mobility you say?
    Any social construct doctrines are like that.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)11:00:17 No.2446832
    I don't know what I would do, but I think that the Anarchists want to take power and distribute it equally to everyone. Proudhon's vision was a world where mutual contracts between individuals replaces government, it's a view uninformed by industrialization and as Marx said based around the 'petty bourgeoise' (artisans) but its definitely not a vision that takes power from one minority and gives it to another minority, it's a vision that destroys the chances of centralized power seen in government existing and replaces it with people operating fairly towards each other through economic necessity. It has massive flaws though buddo.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)11:02:40 No.2446844
    >>2446827
    The point of a doctrine like Libertarianism is that allows the gifted to be rewarded for the gift according to the popularity of it (by the way of recieving money for performing it)
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)11:04:46 No.2446855
    >>2446832
    This resembles capitalistic anarchism, a step away from libertarianism.
    Wikipedia says that Proudhorn was a Fascist by the way.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)11:06:05 No.2446860
    >>2446855
    Proudhon, sorry
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)11:08:44 No.2446873
    >>2446827

    well, there have been general rises in living standards across the advanced capitalist economies becuase of massive accumulation. But in fact in real terms average wages ahve seen a decline or stagnation since the 1970s with the decline of working class power expressed through the old industrial unions. Bourgeois capitalism is a revolutionary social system in that it breaks down the old social order and it doesn't matter where you come from - in theory. I think this is less relevant nowadays as it resembles more and more an immpersonal sysyem. But, yes, the state is there to intervene to ensure that mass accumulation keeps going on. (Hello, bank bailouts!)
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)11:09:58 No.2446878
    >>2446860

    hmmm, could be true. He to me always seemed closer to Mrs Thatcher's petit-bourgeois outlook than Kropotkin or Bakunin, who were part of the working class revolutionary movement.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)11:13:25 No.2446895
    well actually it says 'he had almost paranoid feelings of hatred against the Jews, common in Europe at the time.'

    which is a bit different you sensationalist little thing you.

    well not really, just cause he sees economic factors as more important than say, violent direct action, doesn't mean he's a capitalist. He didn't want people to profit from these contracts, rather he wanted people to exchange goods and services to each other without profit in order to gain things they needed to live their lives. So say I'm a blacksmith and you're a farmer, we agree that x amount of your crop is worth y amount of my time in my forge and we exchange, if we can agree we break the contract and go elsewhere. No profit man.

    to be fair though you could pick on loads of things about Proudhon, he is quite vague, he was a misogynist both of these come out in his writing. The jew thing actually had nothing to do with his theory, he never wrote publicly about it therefore it's pretty irrelevant.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)11:13:35 No.2446899
    >>2446873
    The Proletariat Marx is refering to are the wage-slaves which have absolutly no personal dignity. Today even Wal mark employes ear a quite good amount for thier lack of skill.
    (about the bailout) This is not libertarian, this is centrist to the bone, it is not capitalistic.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)11:14:44 No.2446905
    >>2446878
    "Although ultimately overshadowed by Karl Marx, who dismissed him as a bourgeois socialist for his pro-market views" Wikipedia about Proudhon
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)11:16:47 No.2446913
    >>2446895
    You are talking about barter-trade without money. Todays trade is barter trade with money. Little diference, besides money manipulation.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)11:17:53 No.2446916
    anarchists would argue he was overshadowed because of marx's maneuvers in the i.w.a in 1872(?) and pro market I have no idea what wikipedia is on about.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)11:20:18 No.2446929
    >>2446913
    And it saves alot of transaction costs. No need to look for a person looking for a pair of hockey skates (given you need them) if you have toothpicks for trade.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)11:20:48 No.2446931
    >>2446899

    no, the proletariat have "radical chains" - meaning they have nothing to sell but their capcity to labour - they have no capital of their own. But they are excluded from the products of their labour - they only encounter them as consumers in the market place. Yes, Marx railed against the dehumanising effects of capitalist development, effects we still see today in Bangladesh, China, etc., etc. Plus ca change.

    Where workers have got a better deal is because they gottogether and fought for better pay and conditions. Minimum wages, 40-hour weeks, two-day weekends, holiday pay and the like did not just fall from the sky! They are the productsof decades of struggle by past workers.

    I find it funny that people on this board who preach the free market are mostly students who've never done a hard day's work in their lives!

    Oh and the state has always been pivotal in the development of capitalism - to see it otherwise is sheer fantasy.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)11:22:16 No.2446941
    isn't that a really big difference?
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)11:27:16 No.2446967
    >>2446931
    I find those bords infested with socialists and anarchists. Ann Ryand and libertarianism is considered retarded here! Really!

    Capital can be obtained by the way of a loan. You just need a idea.
    Labour value of work was abolished long ago i think. The worker is not the only one producing value. Without the marketing department, without the management, without R&D. Those workers could not do anything.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)11:27:45 No.2446973
    >>2446967
    Without the marketing department, without the management, without R&D there is no value.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)11:30:39 No.2446994
    >>2446941
    What are you refering to?

    ProudBlox
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)11:31:47 No.2447005
         File :1229358707.jpg-(66 KB, 840x658, Night riots in the center.jpg)
    66 KB
    These are not lefties, reds or any extreme, they are ordinary people. It was not started by the death of the young man. Greeks have been unhappy with their government for over a year now. They believe their government should serve them and not vice versa. They believe their leader has failed greece and consequently is a traitor for feathering his own nest. The media isn't very good at giving us news if they believe opinions they're expressing to us are fact.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)11:33:22 No.2447014
    >>2446967
    Bangladesh, China are hardly enjoing the effects of libertarianism.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)11:34:48 No.2447025
    referring to this.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)11:39:04 No.2447053
    >>2447005
    All over the world, wherever there are capitalists, freedom of the press means freedom to buy up newspapers, to buy writers, to bribe, buy and fake public opinion for the benefit of the bourgeoisie.
    Lenin

    Substitute the phrase capitalists with corrupt politicians and you will find a interesting commentary.

    Trampling police cars is not the way to do things i think.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)11:39:15 No.2447055
    quote thing not working, referring to difference between barter with and without monies.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)11:40:23 No.2447066
    >>2447055
    So state the drastic negative difference please
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)11:41:32 No.2447071
    >>2447053
    Corrupt politicians are only possible when arbitrary decisions by the state are allowed. Libertarianism is against this, as seen in Estonia.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)11:50:04 No.2447116
    >>2446931
    State is necessary for true capitalism, but as a neutral observer and arbiter. Again social reforms bring arbitrarity and posibillity of screwing with the system.
    >> Anonymous 12/15/08(Mon)11:54:13 No.2447144
    >>2447005
    One more thing, the social parties and Anarchists are using the event for thier political need. I think it would be nice to look at the libertarian altenative.


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