da west & east wil be lyk 'oh shit nigga!!'
and we be lyk 'oh snap!'

Cut off all charity and withdraw 100% of western aid/etc.
Let disease/famine/war/etc take care of the over-population (cause of most problems).
Step in when things are a bit better looking.

It would never work but I s'pose we could try?

We discover some new alternative energy source, and it turns out Africa's sitting on an ass load of it. Of course, then the US will just invade under the pretense of "peacekeeping" and take it all from them.

America cancel's third-world's debts to America
/thread

>>2129390
HUUURRRRRRR just like how the action in the middle east is totally providing the U.S. with cheap oil.

gb2moveon.org you deluded fuckwit.


The best way to fix Africa is to leave it the hell alone for awhile. The current population cannot be sustained, and due to the tribal nature of it's peoples there cannot be a stable government.

Long answer: Introduce sweeping reforms in commerce, democracy, and education, abolish tribal identity, and make far-sighted investments into science and biotech industries.

Short answer: No.

Kill them all. You can't be statistically relevant if you don't exist.

Africa will get rich when the GDP stays the same and the population falls drastically.

>>2129390

Africa is already sitting on an ass load of oil. Then again, people live like shit in most of the middle east.

Give em' a hundred years and we won't even remember there was ever a problem.

Still suffering effects of colonialism bro. Downturn in sub-saharan Africa is a temporary result of political restructuring. Nigeria is one of the fastest growing economies on Earth.

Bear in mind that most of Africa has only been free from colonial control for 50 years or less.

Give them another 500 years. They're in their own Dark Ages.

1: Systematic extermination of all negroes.
2: Encourage other races to start colonies in Africa.

No. AIDS has cut all possibilies of Africa ever entering the First World. Harsh, but true.

Pic related, Human Development Index. Africa is further away from the First World than it has ever been in its entire modern history.

Countries like Libya or Egypt may still have a shot, though.

I played the Halo series, Africa wins the world somehow, read the books.

Step one is for them to realize THAT IF THEY CAN BARELY AFFORD TO FEED THEMSELVES THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE CHILDREN TO MAKE SUFFER AS WELL.

The catholic hospitals refusing to hand out contraception isn't helping. Fucking religious fags ruin everything.

>>2129788
There's your problem right there, if there was no religion in Africa, they'd be the best country on earth.

>>2129337

Best fucking one-page no BS analysis of this question ever, right here:

http://my.telegraph.co.uk/journalist/blog/2007/10/13/africa__the_continent_that_keeps_failing_

>>2129713

drastically low development is because Africa has had not TIME to develop. that's what South America looked like when the Spanish were first kicked out.

People have such ignorant, short-term views. Stabilization and economic growth can happen very quickly and eventually it will - the effect of one state's growth will radiate out into all others.

But the political order must work itself out in Africa, it's still arbitrary and anachronistic.

Do what lybia did. Create a successful dictatorship for the sake of controlling your country. After the dictator dies, slowly work on international relations, modernizations, more liberal forms of government.

>telegraph
>uk

>>2129950

i didn't even bother opening the link.

use your brain, ignore the tabloids.

>>2129995

Current models of human migration suggest we all started out in Africa. Thus, they've had far more time than any other geographcal area to develop a stable, progressive civilization. Aside from some notable contributions by Semitic (arab, hebrew & co.) people in Egypt, and the Mali kingdom some 1500 years ago, there has been nothing to suggest there is any motivation or capability for 1st world development there.

Even GANDHI despised black africans and bagged on them for being lazy and unmotivated.

>>2130051

Reprint of an older article from a different publication which doesn't work any more. Use your brain means discrimination of value from different pools of data. For that to happen, you have to "bother" to become informed. Not your cuppa, apparently.

Here's a quick stat (not from the article): Since the 50's the West has pumped over 6 times the amount of aid into Africa that was poured into europe to rebuild it after the obliteration of WW2. SIX MARSHALL PLANS and Africa is still a corrupt shithole backwater Aidsapalooza. Though there are some standouts who would love to turn their homeland around, unfortunately for genetics they are outnumbered by their idiot and thug brothers 9000 to 1.

As long as Whites and Chinese are around, they won't recover.

/thread

Africa needs new blood. They need to actively start to encourage massive immigration to the continent. Specifically from India and China; people from there will bring investment and business. the native populations of Africa, just need to get their shit together and 1) encourage this immigration, and 2) welcome these new people, not form mobs and attack them.

If African countries start doing this, they will see significant economic improvement.

Other things stable african countries can do, is to become tax havens for western corporations, as well as tourist centers.

>>2130063

muddblack
>Current models of human migration suggest we all started out in Africa. Thus, they've had far more time than any other geographcal area to develop a stable, progressive civilization.

Europe developed civilisation first, a result of prehistoric anomaly. 100 years, 10000 years are all the same thing to a pre-agrarian society. development only begins when a country makes that jump to centralized state-based agrarian societies.

this only occurred in Sub-Saharan Africa with colonisation. hence, Africa has only had a few decades since the collapse of the colonial empires to develop. Europe had several thousand years.

one day you will realise that blaming achieves nothing, as every country is the result of history beyond the control of any individual.

Allow blacks from the western world to step in. They could turn it 360

>>2130063

I meant the Mali kingdom in the 1500's or so. Was a flash in the pan regardless, long gone now.

>>2130174
Civilization developed in West Asia you faggot. Africa has had civilizations(Benin lol)

>>2130163

I very much disagree, see this post>>2130169

Africa needs investment to being about economic prosperity, and i can assure you that won't happen on a domestic level.

>>2130130
>unfortunately for genetics

you believe whites are genetically superior to blacks.
hence, you are irredeemably stupid.
your opinions are no longer valid.

>>2130187

i was comparing Europe to Africa. out of Europe and Africa, Europe developed (WHAT WE CALL) civilisation first.

honestly, why do i bother?

>>2129337

The I.Q of the average African is 70, borderline retarded in other words. The continents never going to develop becuase the majority of the populace are not smart enough to build developed countries.
The best thing the rest of the world can do is to stop all aid and stop interfering altogether and let evolution take it's course.

>>2129713
Funny how SOUTH AFRICA WAS A DEVELOPED COUNTRY for most of its history until apartheid fell.

Look at them in that map now. Fucking pathetic.

>>2130174

Well fuck me, someone who knows dick about history posting in a racist thread.

I suppose thats what the arguments have always been between. People who chose to open up books, and people who just listened to the easiest explanation.

>>2130228

you're a moron.

i cannot believe people who think like this.

firstly, South Africa was never developed. WHITE South Africa was developed. the WHITE MINORITY. does that seem fair to you? one group of people actively subjugated another because of the colour of their skin.

if South Africa became shit after apartheid, it just proves how terrible apartheid was as an institutional framework.

>>2130224
That's a big fat sack of BS. They average is actually 78

>>2130224
i'm going to ignore the rest of the social darwinist garbage in you post and focus on this one, because it's my favourite hilarious racist argument

>The I.Q of the average African is 70, borderline retarded in other words.

IQ is influenced by socioeconomic status.
Sub-Saharan Africa, as already discussed has an HDI rating in the red.
Hence, IQ will always measure lower.

i'm curious to see how you'll take this out of context and apply your 'no-nonsense' (ie. completely unfounded) sheep not-so-thinly-veiled racism to it

>>2130260
In 1950, South Africa had the same GDP per capita as Italy.

>>2130290

Not according to this.

But even with an average I.Q of 78, Africa is never going to develop out of third world status and we should stop expecting it to.

A new form of solar collection technology will make Africa the most energy rich continent on the planet. They will establish a huge energy pipeline straight into europe.

With such an abundance of enery and lack of regulations it will be easy and cheap for large corporations to set up a multitude of server farms, salt water processing plants and electricity driven irrigation.

Africa will become the backbone of the internet and an agricultural mecca.

Why Africa fails:

1- Still in their dark ages.

2- Most people there believe that diseases that are affecting their population can still be cured with a beverage made of lemons.

3- AIDS, men don't get it. You can just cure yourself by taking a shower or having sex with a virgin girl (giving her AIDS too.)

4- Contraception is simply not natural to them.

5- Aid is what keeping them alive, true, but without proper education about responsible parenthood and/or stable governments it is not possible for them to develop properly. Still, of course, their holding on to old beliefs and superstitions despite modern advances is not going to help them.

6- Lots of local dictators, corrupt politicians or tribalist chiefs running local hell holes, spreading segregation and stealing all the aid and money they can get for themselves will NEVER help Africa pull itself together.

it's so unfair to all detractors that the Nazis were the best dressed villains in all of military history.

>>2130334
That shows NATIVE PEOPLES, not current populations.

>>2130197

Time and science are on the side of rationality here. There is no god or other universal "score keeper" going around carefully balancing the classes to make them "equal." Fairy tales.

Read this man's article. He has been the guy saying 'Africuz is retarded". This guy MADE UP 104 studies. This means all the "lol dumb niggers" are relying on guy who hasn't even come up with research
http://www.rlynn.co.uk/pages/article_intelligence/10.asp

>>2129337

No, I can't. Nor can I see any way for them to rid their land of disease, either. Africa is freaking RAMPANT with airborne contaminants, from what I've gathered.

I say nuke or slash + burn the entire continent, migrating the wildlife to other islands in the process.

>>2130344

yeah. what's up with that?

>>2130334
That map is from Richard Lynn. Richard Lynn is a fringe scientist

>>2130318

you ignored everything i said. bravo.

>>2130347
This shows current populations by IQ.

You know what I noticed about these threads? Noone ever looks and finds decent sources. Using 30 year old studies of 100 people is not research

>>2130260

I'd say the complete opposite. Apartheid allowed growth and development. It in fact stopped all the different tribes from killing eachother.
It was the bleeding heart liberals in every other country who complained about it.

Living in a society with a tenth of the geniuses and ten times more borderline morons is vastly different from living in a White society.

Negroes will never achieve anything on their own. The most they can hope for is to continue being the well cared for pets of guilty feeling White people.

When the entire continent has been slaughtered and/or died from AIDS, yeah, I could see there being no more poverty.

that's not really an acceptable answer though.

>>2130388
Damn Equatorial Guinea, you dumb.

>>2129713
Once again... China > India

>>2130388
You got that off wikipedia. Those iq scores were made up. Read here
http://www.rlynn.co.uk/pages/article_intelligence/10.asp

>>2130338

Why Africa fails:

1- Low IQ.

2- Low IQ.

3- Low IQ.

4- Low IQ.

5- Low IQ.

6- Dictators with a low IQ.

>>2129337

When we stop giving them food and "development" aid.

>>2130426
You realize that graph is old?

>>2130466
fucking truth. stop giving the dictators of the country more money and power and the people will work it out for themselves. FUCK THEM, IT'S THEIR PROBLEM.

>>2130348
FUCKING BROKEN ROBOT9000 STOP MUTING MY QUOTES
>Time and science are on the side of rationality here.

precisely, my side.

there is absolutely ZERO evidence suggesting a different in intelligence between two people of different races IN THE SAME ENVIRONMENT that is any greater than the standard variation within races.

furthermore, several thousand years is several hundred thousand too few for species to change in any more than a superficial way. least of which - *nobody* evolves stupider.

>Can anysone see any forseeable way in which Africa gets out of poverty?

MAYBE REVERSE THE CLOCK ABOUT 40 YEARS?
TRY HAVING WESTERN MEDIA AND GOVERNMENTS NOT SUPPORTING COMMUNIST "NATIONALIST" TERRORIST MOVEMENTS THEN CONSIDERING THEM LEGITIMATE GOVERNMENTS?

MAYBE WE SHOULD STAND BY OUR ALLIES INSTEAD OF BACK STABBING THEM?

THIS IS JUST A COUPLE OF MY THOUGHTS.
ALSO GENOCIDE THE NIGGERS.THIS IS NOT UNIQUE? WHAT THE FUCK ?

>>2130388
It's really sad that the highest is only a few points above 100...

>>2130398
Hundreds of years of IQ testing has showed the same thing. You are saying that every single bit of empirical evidence regarding IQ for the past 100 years were all from what you consider to not be "dcent sources"?

What passes for a "decent source"? A bible?

>>2130492
Maybe you should learn what IQ actually is. Faggot.

>LOW IQ
>LOW IQ
>LOW IQ
>LOW IQ
>LOW IQ
>LOW IQ
>LOW IQ
>LOW IQ
>LOW IQ
>LOW IQ

this is the only argument racists have and it doesn't even make sense.

keep saying it as many times as you like, it doesn't make it any more relevant.

see
>>2130312
>>2130349
for some examples of why nobody practices what you preach
hint: it's because you preach bullshit and every scientist knows it

>>2130476
It isn't, really.

>>2130312


>>IQ is influenced by socioeconomic status.
Sub-Saharan Africa, as already discussed has an HDI rating in the red.
Hence, IQ will always measure lower.

Yes it is. But how do you explain that large parts of China and other East Asian countries have the same level of soci-economic development as Africa but their average I.Q is 35 points higher?

How does India, left in a similiar state to Africa 50 years ago after Brittish colonisers left, become one become one of the worlds richest countires today when Africa stagnates and lives of handouts?

Why do black people in other countries consistantly score lower on I.Q tests than other races even when they have been born and raised in other countries
( averageing around 85, compared to 100 for caucasians and 110 for east asians, but that will be the socio ecomonic factors).

Why does a well educated, middle class African-American still statistically score less than
an East Asain from the most poverty and famine ridden part of North Korea?

>>2130481
>there is absolutely ZERO evidence suggesting a different in intelligence between two people of different races IN THE SAME ENVIRONMENT
Wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Transracial_Adoption_Study

It will never happen as long as white guilt exists.

>>2130528

>DID YOU KNOW

Lisa S. Gottfred, maker of that graph was a white supremacist who existed largely on the fringe of the scientific community?

>DID YOU KNOW

That that graph is a qualitative assessment of what she "reckons" are the fitting jobs for those IQ ranges?

>DID YOU KNOW

That she, in her entire article, did not once mention that socio-economic status is a CAUSE of IQ?

>>2130533
The asian average was made up on a few countries. Only a few like China and India were measured. Must I add those countries have high averages because only the most industrialized parts were studied?

>>2130573
socio-economic status has zero relation to crime or IQ. They simply correlate a little bit.

>>2130573
>did not once mention that socio-economic status is a CAUSE of IQ

I would certainly think not. To make such a claim would be preposterous and would really harm her credibility.

Culture:

-Overwhelmingly pre-industrial
-Tribalist mindset
-Does not hold human life in high regard

Religion:

-Animism: Systematized reduction of all scientifically explainable events to interaction of mystical deities
-Islam: Slovenly systems of agriculture, intentional alienation of women, deep mistrust of Western medicine and science.
-Sympathetic Magic: Sacrifice of animals, goods, valuables. i.e. burning foodstuffs that could have potentially preserved the worshipper from starvation.

>>2130552
That study is a bad follow up to another study.

>>2130533

I'm not even going to acknowledged the IQ bit, since it's complete bullshit, and you know it.

But the Indian comparison is fucking stupid. India was a unified state under the British, it wasn't a collection of small colonies like Africa was. Furthermore there was a collective national identity in India (primarily a Hindu one), thus it was able to form the basis for a nation state once independence was achieved. Furthermore, India had been a center for commerce for a thousand years, it had a thriving economy when the British first made contact, and the British nurtured that economy along while they ruled. The comparison to Africa is just stupid.

tl; dr
-You're an idiot.

>>2130552
>Scarr and Weinberg studied Black, White, and mixed-race Black/White children adopted by upper-middle-class White families in Minnesota. The average IQ of the adopting parents was more than 1 standard deviation above the population mean of 100. The biological children of these parents were also tested.

Results at age 17:

Nonadopted, with two White biological parents 105.5 points
Adopted, with two White biological parents
101.5 points
Adopted, with one White and one Black biological parent
93.2 points
Adopted, with two Black biological parents
83.7 points

>>2130552
did you even read that article?

it presents a scathing critique of that "evidence"...

it doesn't take into account the Flynn effect.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect
not to mention that effect of being a black child living in the MOTHERFUCKING 60s and 70s

>>2130627
Africa has significantly DECLINED, in standard of living and wealth. Western nations have systematically undermined any possibility of reasonable government in africa. It doesn't help that niggers are dumb as shit.

>>2130632
What about the Flynn effect? The Flynn effect has not narrowed the racial IQ gap in the slightest.

>>2130632
I don't care the apologist excuses, the facts are there. They were black children ADOPTED INTO WHITE FAMILIES, with EVERY PRIVILEGE OF BEING A WHITE UPPER-CLASS PERSON.

Yet, they still scored lower than low class whites of the same time.

>>2130533
>ignore each of the historical specifics of the countries listed
>ignore the effects of brutal colonialism
>compare states with stable governments with those who still bear the authoritarian rule of the last century of African history

icy tale, relative.

>>2130610
Because we all know it's all in the genes.
You either born smart or you born stupid.
We should just end the education system and just breed inteligent babies

>>2130347

...and you're saying that all those black people who populate Africa are not the natives?

>>2130481

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=-aWX4XrHy9k

Watch, listen and learn.
And before you make make sweeping statements you might want to check the facts.

ITT underage b& white kids try to blame all their problems on someone else. We're all the same, and you didn't fail English because you're 1/16th black. Grow the fuck up.

Problem: Africa is like South East Asia on steroids, it is not just good for guerilla activity, it's like something I would have thought of if I were to give a text book example of where guerillas would prosper best. The weapons gunmen need to maintain dominance in an area are cheap due to the current technological situation and can be obtained by trading resources which require no capital investment and little stability to maintain their production.

Solution: The only way to stop them is simply for one autocrat whom believes it is a profitable venture for himself and his generals to get all the nation's resources under their control. Their objective would be to cut off supply routes so they can no longer obtain the AK47s, RPGs and explosives they need to continue the mayhem. The autocrat would have to ensure his generals have no ties to the guerilla groups that profit from their continued autonomy, the autocrat would need to maintain the mentality that he is annexing petty princelings and adding their wealth to his clique.

The autocrat would then profit from the general wealth of the country and would seek to develop a skilled organised workforce to achieve this that themselves would attempt to branch out into more profitable ventures. The country would adapt it's laws to promote growth etc..

The democratic republic of Congo is an example of a country that has no major national army.
Nigeria is a nation that has achieved a monopoly over force but has not reached the point where the state prospers from the bulk of it's citizen's productivity.
South Africa has a diversified industrial economy with a professional base. It's success is due to the fact that the colonial government could not leave due to the large dutch and english population, so the state was maintained during the turmoil as colonialism ended and instead of being overthrown it simply saw the rise of political parties that allowed equal rights for blacks.

>>2130481
>several thousand years is several hundred thousand too few for species to change in any more than a superficial way

The data showed that evolution had continued in recent millennia. A statistical analysis of DNA patterns suggested that new mutations in each of the two brain-related genes had spread quickly through some human populations. Evidently, these mutations were advantageous among those populations -- just as the genetic variant promoting milk digestion was advantageous to early Europeans. Dr. Lahn and his team further observed that the new mutations are found most frequently outside of Africa.

What the data didn't say was how the mutations were advantageous. Perhaps the genes play a role outside of the brain or affect a brain function that has nothing to do with intelligence.

While acknowledging that the evidence doesn't permit a firm conclusion, Dr. Lahn favors the idea that the advantage conferred by the mutations was a bigger and smarter brain. He found ways to suggest that in his papers. One mutation, which according to his estimates arose some 40,000 years ago, coincided with the first art found in caves, the paper observed. The other mutation, present mostly in people from the Middle East and Europe, and estimated to be 5,800 years old, coincided with the "development of cities and written language."

>>2130641
>William T. Dickens and James R. Flynn write that blacks have gained 5 or 6 IQ points on non-Hispanic whites between 1972 and 2002. This graph shows the gains for various tests

people do not evolve that quickly.

IQ IS CLEARLY NOT THE RESULT OF BIOLOGICAL INFERIORITY, because if it was, why would the gap be closing now that conditions are converging?

>>2130680

Oh shit a Youtube video. I'm prepared to have my MIND BLOWN!!!

btw have you seen Zeitgeist? Now THATS an awesome movie.

>>2130665
no argument, just fallacies eh?

>>2130664
Colonialism left stable nations in its wake, colonialism was the best thing to ever happen to africa, it built industries and agriculture and infrastructure.

When they left though, the soviets, with the help of the subverted leftist media, conquered most of africa and turned the place back into a shithole.

>>2130681
>Because I can't make an actual argument, I'm just going to make an ad hominem remark.

Stop sending them aid and they'll either a) learn to become self-sufficient or b) starve and maybe stop reproducing.

>>2130687
Dr.Lahn did not study central or east africa so his research was incomplete. I remeber a scientists who mentioned other flaws in his research but that article is gone

TL;DR WALL OF TEXT
>>2130687
>>2130686

>mutation

you know very little to nothing about genetics.>>2130687

Nitzan Mekel-Bobrov,1,2 Sandra L. Gilbert,1 Patrick D. Evans,1,2 Eric J. Vallender,1,2 Jeffrey R. Anderson,1 Richard R. Hudson,3 Sarah A. Tishkoff,4 Bruce T. Lahn1* The gene ASPM (abnormal spindle-like microcephaly associated) is a specific regulator of brain size, and its evolution in the lineage leading to Homo sapiens was driven by strong positive selection. Here, we show that one genetic variant of ASPM in humans arose merely about 5800 years ago and has since swept to high frequency under strong positive selection. These findings, especially the remarkably young age of the positively selected variant, suggest that the human brain is still undergoing rapid adaptive evolution.

>>2130689
Nobody is arguing that there's no environmental component to IQ... OF COURSE THERE IS ONE. The delusional thing here is to believe that there's no genetic component either.

Both, genetics and environment, are important. You, libfags, are the delusional ones that believe everything boils down to environment.

The key will be economic growth, which is a concept that is only starting to be realised in African nations. Every time they put a shovel in the ground they find minerals and they need to find a way to turn these minerals into money. A very capatilist view perhaps, but it appears that most countries begin to take that route once they get an understanding of what they have and how they can turn it into something better.

>>2130743

Here is the picture, which I had forgotten to attach.

>>2130702
>When they left though, the soviets, with the help of the subverted leftist media, conquered most of africa and turned the place back into a shithole.

even if that hypothesis were true, the right-wing dictatorshits and military junta are just as much to blame as ZOMG EVIL COMUNISTS

>>2130746
>The delusional thing here is to believe that there's no genetic component either.

Genetic component *within* races. Genetic component *between* races is delusional because, as always, the evidence simply doesn't exist.

Also, I am never going to be convinced by some graph without a source, without context, without critical appraisal.

>>2130746
Just because there's a genetic difference does not mean it's mostly genetic. It also doesn't mean the genetic influence is important enough to matter. The genetic influence may only be 3 iq points

Here is a debate that is very related to the topic. Fixing Africa depends on whether or not we can bring the Negro IQ up to the level of modern humans.

>James R. Flynn of the University of Otago and Charles Murray of AEI, debated the causes of the difference, its implications, and recent trends on November 28 at AEI.

>>2130738
>>2130686 is worth reading, only the one beneath it is more incessant worthless garble about HURR NIGGERCHIMP IQS

>>2130823
That article says the black kids have an iq of 90.5. So now black people are average

>>2130627

You're not going acknowledge the I.Q evidence because you know you can't argue it.

And India was not a unified state bfore the British came along, It was a dispirat collection of cultures , religions and kingdoms that the British unified, it had no common identity whatsoever. And I know it's not a direct comparison but it is a comparison between former colonies and the divergence between them cannot be easily explained away without acknowledgeing the fact that they are populated by different races.

25% of the worlds nobel prizes have been won by one ethnic group: Jews, despite making up only 0.8% of the worlds population and a history of segregation, genocide and discrimination, the only race in the world who have had a similiar history are African Negroes, who make up 7% of the worlds population and between them have only 1 nobel prize, for peace.

>>2130811
Except the evidence shows it's not. In ALL CASES it's 10 points or more, one standard deviation.

It's very easy its called development and trade. But no one wants to trade with African countries that still have genocide and slavery. Until they want to work towards development rather than cows and aids they'd be fine

>>2130823
>After a thorough analysis of nine standardization samples for four major tests of cognitive ability, we can now say with certainty that the black-white IQ gap is a myth

>Although we can expect the narrowing to resume, there are reasons to think that the remaining gap will be with us indefinitely.

no mention of the innate biological trait of the "Negro" (even NIGGERS is less insulting then that passive aggressive bullshit) that makes them inferior to whites, only the slowing of convergence between IQs, and not even a consensus of that.

>>2130866
That's the whole iq difference not the genetic contribution

>>2130907
That's the whole IQ difference for black kids living in Western countries, or even for black kids raised by white upper-class families as shown on this study >>2130552

No environmental differences there.

>>2130334
That map is a map of the indigenous populations. It has been deleted from wikipedia at least six times. Fucking kill yourself.

>>2130439
They gotta be if they call their nation Equatorial Guinea when it's not even on the equator.

>>2130865
l.Q =/= innate biological intelligence of a race

it never can and it never will.

the misuse of IQ is rampant, and if you understood anything about individual differences psychology, you'd know how very ignorant it is to use it as you are.

Africans used to sell fellow Africans into slavery. The same type of discrimination still exists today. Tribals tend to be considered lazy and incompetent. In a way they are doing what we did to the American Indians just on a larger scale.

>>2130926

a mere 5 IQ points in the original study, in a study discredited in this very thread.

you're out of your mind.

>>2130947
>the misuse of IQ is rampant, and if you understood anything about individual differences psychology, you'd know how very ignorant it is to use it as you are.
ALL MAJOR psychiatric organizations use IQ as the gauge to measure mental retardation. That's because IQ is an objective method that trascends culture (Asians and Jews outperform Whites), and it tests your cognitive and logical skills, your ability to function normally in a modern society.

Given that we are debating the possibility of African countries becoming modern societies, and IQ tests show that Africans are unable to function normally in a modern society because they lack the analytical skills (in some cases they are even below the gauge for mental retardation), I think the use of IQ data is very relevant and not being misused at all.

The arrogance of you pretending to know more than thousands of psychiatrists, educators, employers, psychologists, biologists and overall scientists that use IQ every day in their research, is just staggering.

>>2130947

Well, since you've made a sweeping statement with absolutley no evidence to back it, I'll just take your word for it.

And I'm off to bed now, cos it's 4.00am on my side of the atlantic, but I'll catch up with the thread tommorow.
Night night all.

>>2131000
Actually, it's a 7.8 point difference. Quite significant. This figure jumps to more than 10 points for kids raised by their own biological parents.

And it has not been discredited anywhere in the thread.

>>2131000
THe heritability of IQ goes up as people age.

>>2131004

You are unbelievable.

>ALL MAJOR psychiatric organizations use IQ as the gauge to measure mental retardation.

yes, to identify those falling behind in order to HELP them (this is what IQ was INVENTED for)

>That's because IQ is an objective method that trascends culture (Asians and Jews outperform Whites)

this is laughable. even if IQ tests were universally perfect indicators with no favouring of abstract thinking and education-driven knowledge, SURELY the fact that Jews and Asians score higher would mean culture IS a factor, since their cultures prize education to the point of fanaticism!

>and IQ tests show that Africans are unable to function normally in a modern society

IQ measures how well people perform in a modern society ASSUMING there actually is a modern society there for them. no society = no education = no intelligence = no IQ. Correlation. Causation. DIFFERNET THINGS. IQ is the result, and not the cause (though it loops back in) of the divide between nations.

>The arrogance of you pretending to know more than thousands of psychiatrists, educators, employers, psychologists, biologists and overall scientists that use IQ every day in their research, is just staggering.

the arrogance you have to grossly misuse a legitimate scientific tool to assign blame to people stuck in a CYCLE OF POVERTY.

>>2130865

I'm not going to argue about IQ because its rubbish. Site me a peer reviewed, accredited Academic Journal article that gives creedence to your argument. To be fair, that last bit was a trick question, since you won't be able too.

I didn't claim that it was unified prior to the Anglo conquest, did I? The British UNIFIED India, and treated it as a single entity during the 100+ years of occupation, thus by the time 1947 rolled around, there was a strong nationalist mindset established. African colonies were kept separated, not unified, no continent wide nationalism. It is a stupid comparison, and you're still an idiot.

niggers become worth their weight in gold

>>2131089
No it just suggest these people have higher iqs. The jewish iq score does suggest it's genetic because they were reduced to the most intelligent of Semites

>>2131032

the article describes the ongoing debate about a set of data, with some arguing it's completely environmental, and others that genetics plays *some* role.

it isn't a scientific consensus. it isn't a valuable article. it is entirely an open debate.

>>2131089
>yes, to identify those falling behind in order to HELP them (this is what IQ was INVENTED for)
Well, Africans are falling behind. The usual gauge is 75 points, and many African countries have average IQs well below that... facts suddenly become racist when you don't like them? It's ok for a white guy with a 70 point IQ to be classified as a retard but not for a black guy?

>this is laughable. even if IQ tests were universally perfect indicators with no favouring of abstract thinking and education-driven knowledge, SURELY the fact that Jews and Asians score higher would mean culture IS a factor, since their cultures prize education to the point of fanaticism!
Ah, but the argument usually is that IQ tests were made by Western cultures and thus are biased to favour them. If culture was the ultimate determinant, black Americans should score like whites (they score much lower), Asian Americans born here should score like whites (they score much higher). How is it possible that this black < mixed < white < asian classification exists in every IQ test ever done in every country in the world?

>IQ measures how well people perform in a modern society ASSUMING there actually is a modern society there for them.
Explain the black-white IQ gap in the United States. Or in Great Britain, for that matter.

>the arrogance you have to grossly misuse a legitimate scientific tool to assign blame to people stuck in a CYCLE OF POVERTY.
Cycle of poverty my ass. Asians in the United States are the highest earning minority, and they came to these shores with empty pockets and absolutely nothing. How come Jews and Asians fresh off the boat score better than blacks on IQ and outperform them financially in less than a generation?

Mohandas Gandhi the White Supremacist says:

of black inmates: Only a degree removed from the animal.

also - Kaffirs /South African Blacks, among whom Gandhi lived much of his life/ are as a rule uncivilized - the convicts even more so. They are troublesome, very dirty and live almost like animals.

inb4 stormfront, godwin, etc.

>>2131140
The consensus of the scientific community is pretty clear.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snyderman_and_Rothman_(study)
>At least one important survey suggests that a belief in the biological inferiority of some races in regard to intelligence is more common than generally supposed. Smith College professor Stanley Rothman and Harvard researcher Mark Snyderman surveyed a sample of mostly scientific experts in the field of educational psychology in the late 1980s and found that 53 percent believed IQ differences between whites and African Americans were at least partly genetic in origin, while only 17 percent attributed the IQ differences to environmental factors alone (the remainder either believed the data was currently insufficient to decide the issue or refused to answer the question).

"I have given my life to alleviate the sufferings of Africa. There is something that all white men who have lived here, must learn and know; that these individuals are a sub-race; they have neither the intellectual , mental or emotional abilities to equate or share in any of the functions of our civilisation. "

"I have given my life to try to bring unto them the advantages which our civilisation must offer, but I have become well aware that we must retain this status; white, the superior, and they the inferior; for whenever a white man seeks to live among them as their equal, they will either destroy him or devour him, and they will destroy all his work; and so for any existing relationship or for any benefit to this people let white men from anywhere in the world who would come to help Africa remember that you must continually retain this status; you the master, and they the inferior, like children that you would help or teach. Never fraternise with them as equals, never accept them as your social equals ; or they will devour you; they will destroy you."
-- Dr. Albert Schweitzer, winner of the 1952 Nobel Prize for peace, in his 1961 book, From My African Notebook.

>>2131196
Will you stop posting? No matter what anyone says you just ignore it unless it's as dumb as you are

>>2131231

i too, can quote context-free blocks of text from wikipedia in favour of my argument

>Researchers have reported differences in the average IQ test scores of various ethnic groups. The interpretation, causes, accuracy and reliability of these differences are highly controversial. Some researchers, such as Arthur Jensen, Richard Herrnstein, and Richard Lynn have argued that such differences are at least partially genetic. Others, for example Thomas Sowell, argue that the differences largely owe to social and economic inequalities. Still others have such as Stephen Jay Gould and Richard Lewontin have argued that categories such as "race" and "intelligence" are cultural constructs that render any attempt to explain such differences (whether genetically or sociologically) meaningless.

>The Flynn effect is the rise of average Intelligence Quotient (IQ) test scores, an effect seen in most parts of the world, although at varying rates. Scholars therefore believe that rapid increases in average IQ seen in many places are much too fast to be as a result of changes in brain physiology and more likely as a result of environmental changes. The fact that environment has a significant effect on IQ demolishes the case for the use of IQ data as a source of genetic information.[87][88]

>>2131228
>>2131258

Oh look, a couple random quotes that are nothing more then OPINION.

God you stormfags are fucking stupid.

>>2131231
My god you are an idiot. Here let me walk you through this:

>Forty-five percent believe the difference to be a product of both genetic and environmental variation, compared to only 15% who feel the difference is entirely due to environmental variation. Twenty-four percent of experts do not believe there are sufficient data to support any reasonable opinion, and 14% did not respond to the question. Eight experts (1%) indicate a belief in an entirely genetic determination.

Do you know what "both genetic and environmental" variation mean? You do understand that almost no scientist in their right mind would ever say the genetics plays no role in development (positive or negative)? Do you realize that only EIGHT scientists believed in a purely genetic reason, despite the fact that your pet study was sponsored by a conservative magazine whose main these was an attempt to find "liberal bias" (quoting wikipedia again here).

How does it feel, knowing that you've abandoned logical, skeptical thought and are only working to serve your own illogical biases and prejudices? I'm curious.

>>2131258
colossal argument from authority

nobel peace prize for philosophy =/= any knowledge of race

>>2131295
Except, as I have shown you, the majority of the scientific community believes there's a significant genetic component to IQ. The scientists you cite are part of a 17% minority that believes it's purely environmental.

And from a logical standpoint, again, how can you explain the fact that black children adopted into upper-class white families still scored lower than their adopted white counterparts?

>>2131279
Actually, you are ignoring my points by not replying to my post. Butthurt idiot.

>>2131348
I did reply to your post about 15 times

The CFR pretty much wants to eliminate them through disease and famine using the UN.

Hence why AIDS was unleashed in that region.

You really think they wouldn't get educated on that shit that was killing everyone?

Of course they do, it's just when they're given "vaccines" they end up contracting AIDS.

Look up CFR one world government or Operation Endgame.
It is a plan for the reduction of human population by 80% by 2012.

>>2131196
>If culture was the ultimate determinant, black Americans should score like whites (they score much lower), Asian Americans born here should score like whites (they score much higher).

i hate to break it to you, but those are all completely different cultures. Asians have an obsession with education. Blacks have little access to good education. Whites are somewhere in between.

hence Asians > Whites > Blacks

how does that refute my point that culture (and by which i INCLUDE education divide) is determinant if IQ divides?

>Explain the black-white IQ gap in the United States. Or in Great Britain, for that matter.

minorities stuck in a cycle of poverty. just like the Irish were once, and guess what? they had dirt low IQs as well.

>Asians in the United States are the highest earning minority, and they came to these shores with empty pockets and absolutely nothing. How come Jews and Asians fresh off the boat score better than blacks on IQ and outperform them financially in less than a generation?

because asian and jewish immigrats are from nations which prize education above all other things. the fact that they have a fresh start is WHY they aren't stuck in a cycle of poverty. not to mention the fact that dirt poor, lower class Asians CANNOT AFFORD TO IMMIGRATE -> the only ones who arrive are already those with some personal wealth and a lot of initiative.

>>2131320
>ad hominems, "prejudices", etc

Nice try, faggot. The part you are quoting, about "respondents", includes editors, journalists and people that have nothing to do with science. If you actually bothered to read the whole article and scroll down, you would realize that when the study asked the SCIENTISTS alone what they felt about the black-white IQ gap, the majority of them (53%), said that they believe that there's a genetic component to IQ.

To me, that settles it.
53% of scientists agree with me.
17% of scientists agree with you.

>>2131320 again, and .....
wow this just gets funnier, ty for that wiki link, it's a goldmine. Here's another example of the people who support your argument:

>in 1969 explained that blacks had IQ scores 15 points lower than those of whites and suggested that, because free public education had not diminished this difference, it was likely genetic.

IN 19-FUCKING-69!!! hahaha my god. Hmm yes certainly no social factors influencing public education here, it just MUST BE GENETICS. Seriously, how can post that as serious support for your argument? Isn't it embarrassing to side with these people?

>>2131413
53% of scientists believe there is a genetic component. You believe there is a huge genetic component and a small environmental component

Speaking of the G man, he seems to relate India's struggle against colonialism on compatible terms with that of Africa:

Gandhi - Ours is one continued struggle against degradation sought to be inflicted upon us by the European, who desire to degrade us to the level of the raw Kaffir, whose occupation is hunting and whose sole ambition is to collect a certain number of cattle to buy a wife with, and then pass his life in indolence and nakedness.

Oh, wait. Not really.

>>2131348
>And from a logical standpoint, again, how can you explain the fact that black children adopted into upper-class white families still scored lower than their adopted white counterparts?

you expect black children born into white families in the 1960s to succeed as much as white children in white families? more to the world than parents.

i've made several posts with other explanations, but you just keep asking WHY THIS? WHY THIS? over and over and over, this is the last time I'm responding.

this is ONE study. it's not a CONSENSUS. it's highly CRITICIZED. and you don't have to look far to find out: it's in the wiki article ITSELF

>>2131413
There is a genetic component to everything you fucking moron. No one disputes this. Especially not a scientist, for whom hypotheses are true until proven false. But no one believes that this genetic component plays a role larger than the social one. Even Einstein would have lived a shitty, uneducated life if he were born in a poor African village.

Also see >>2131429
you're in real good company. Just admit it, you're not interested in considering this rationally, you're invested in vindicating your own personal prejudices and biases, which are inherently illogical and anecdotal.

>>2131413
>>2131429
>>2131479

i'm confused as to who is against who now.

all three of these posts read in support of my argument to me, and yet that doesn't make sense.

>>2131403
>i hate to break it to you, but those are all completely different cultures.
Blacks living in the United States are a "different culture"? Asians too? Really? Are you willing to discriminate and make up bullshit about other ethnic groups so much just so everything fits with your little fairy tale egalitarian bullshit?

By the way, you still haven't explained how blacks adopted by white families (ie - THE SAME FUCKING CULTURE) still scored lower than their white counterparts. I'm waiting to see how you twist this around to find an environmental explanation.

>minorities stuck in a cycle of poverty. just like the Irish were once, and guess what? they had dirt low IQs as well.
Sauce? Regardless, IQ is partly environmental, partly genetic. It explains perfectly why Ireland or South Korea have risen out of poverty while Ghana has not.

South Korea, in fact, had the exact same GDP per capita as Ghana in the 1950s. They've been growing and catching up at very fast rates as soon as they got independence, reaching First World status, while Ghana has worsened.

Cycle of poverty my ass.

>because asian and jewish immigrats are from nations which prize education above all other things. the fact that they have a fresh start is WHY they aren't stuck in a cycle of poverty
Oh please, what a bullshit excuse. Following that logic, Mexicans should have high IQs, yet they score lower than American whites (and higher than Blacks).

>. not to mention the fact that dirt poor, lower class Asians CANNOT AFFORD TO IMMIGRATE -> the only ones who arrive are already those with some personal wealth and a lot of initiative.
More bullshit. Most Asians and Jews came with nothing in their pocket, particularly the Jews escaping the holocaust. Yet today they are an incredibly successful minority.

>>2131497

The prejudiced idiot bringing up wikipedia articles on supposed "scientific consensus" based on one neocon study is this guy >>2131413

The guy calling him out for this stupidity is me:
>>2131429
>>2131320
>>2131479

>>2131526

God you're a fucking idiot. Your entire argument is flawed "Durrr i'm going to compare things that cannot be compared logically durrr"

1) You really don't see any differences between Korean and Ghana.... really?

2) Jews didn't face entrenched racism, a legacy of slavery (within that country). Jews didn't face segregation once they got off the boat.

3) you're a fucking idiot.

>>2131429
Calling people names is not going to change anything, you know?

>>2131432
No, I believe in a genetic and environmental component, with at least a 50-50 influence on the outcome. Don't put words in my mouth.

>>2131449
>1960
This was not a problem for the Irish, which were also discriminated against. It was not a problem for Jewish families coming straight from Nazi Germany. Why should it be a problem for blacks?

>>2131479
More name-calling,... you are really pathetic.
Put Einstein in the United States and he started a revolution in physics. Put a black man in the United States and he can barely hold a mediocre job.

Still think genetics is irrelevant?

>>2131573

Are you seriously crying over someone calling you names over the internet?

Yous stormfags are even more faggoted then i thought.

>>2131526
You have no knowledge of the history or circumstances of any of those ethnic groups beyond a high schooler's understanding, just fyi.

Here's a fun game:

>South Korea, in fact, had the exact same GDP per capita as Ghana in the 1950s. They've been growing and catching up at very fast rates as soon as they got independence, reaching First World status, while Ghana has worsened.

Hurrr yes the social situations in these countries are exactly the same, why it must be GENETICS!

>The USA, in fact, had the exact same GDP per capita as Britain in the 1700s. They've been growing and catching up at very fast rates as soon as they got independence, reaching First World status, while Great Britain has worsened.


Look Mom I'm arguing on the internet!!! Great Britain = racially inferior!!!!

And now you begin typing a response with "but Great Britain hasn't worsened you idiot lolz!" But, of course, Ghana hasn't either:

http://www.indexmundi.com/ghana/gdp_real_growth_rate.html

(the drop in GDP in 1983 being due to a wave of immigrant refugees from Nigeria, btw).

>>2130224
IQ test don't mean shit outside of Mensa

>>2131526
>Blacks living in the United States are a "different culture"?

blacks live in black neighbourhoods, in black towns, in black counties, going to black schools, getting shit education, being embroiled in gang culture, lacking parental support, lacking any hope whatsoever of breaking out. that, my friend, is an environmental difference.

>By the way, you still haven't explained how blacks adopted by white families (ie - THE SAME FUCKING CULTURE) still scored lower than their white counterparts. I'm waiting to see how you twist this around to find an environmental explanation.

nope too late, you've ignored every response to it so far i have no intention of continuing (see >>2131449)


>South Korea, in fact, had the exact same GDP per capita as Ghana in the 1950s. They've been growing and catching up at very fast rates as soon as they got independence, reaching First World status, while Ghana has worsened.

south korean history =/= ghana history.

ghana achieved independence in 1957: there were a series of coups until 1988

south korea was already developed - it had an organisational structure and a proper, historical culture. furthermore, it was occupied by the USA who pumped money into it to fight the North, and is now between Japan and China, two economic powerhouses.

how is race related to any of this?

>>2130349
I see the trolls are just ignoring this post

>>2131557
>1) You really don't see any differences between Korean and Ghana.... really?
Other than genetics? And the Korean War?
No, I don't.

In 1950:
1. Both countries were dirt-poor, same GDP per capita
2. Both countries had *just* gained independence.
3. Both countries had suffered rampant colonialism.
4. Both countries had very low literacy.

MAJOR DIFFERENCE:
South Korea was just coming out of a brutal civil war that destroyed the country. Which again, is a factor that plays against them.

Today, well you can see the difference for yourself: >>2129713

>2) Jews didn't face entrenched racism, a legacy of slavery (within that country). Jews didn't face segregation once they got off the boat.
No, they faced massive poverty and discrimination in Germany, WORSE than anything blacks experienced in the 20th century. Do you think the educational disadvantage and poverty just magically dissapeared once they stepped on American soil? No, they had to work their asses off to get out of their "cycle of poverty" and lower education standards.

>3) you're a fucking idiot.
You are a fucking child.

Did you know that the average IQ of Midwest White Americans during and pre-great depression was also in the 70s?

With this post the 32424232 incarnation of this /n/ thread grows closer to 500 post

>>2131573

I'm going to insult you so long as you continue to post retarded shit, because this is 4chan not stormfront or where-ever the fuck you frequent. Your posts are getting worse, by the way:

>No, I believe in a genetic and environmental component, with at least a 50-50 influence on the outcome. Don't put words in my mouth.

Oh wow 50/50!!! Are you a scientist? Did you test to find that ratio? Or are you:
>invested in vindicating your own personal prejudices and biases, which are inherently illogical and anecdotal.

I mean, it's painfully obvious to me, how can you be ignoring this?

>Put Einstein in the United States and he started a revolution in physics. Put a black man in the United States and he can barely hold a mediocre job.

Hahaha my god o yea because the social situation for black men and German refugee scientists is exactly the same, yes SURELY THIS PROVES GENETIC INFLUENCE.

I'm serious man, you really need to reconsider your position here. You are not being logical, you are motivated by exactly the kind of ignorance you probably mock.

>>2131587

l like this one. l like him a lot.

>>2131449

Researcher A: Seeking a grant to fund an empirical, objective study of differences in the rate of socializing trait acquisition across controlled groups of feral vs. domesticated cat populations. Chances of getting funding: Excellent

Researcher B: Seeking a grant to fund an empirical, objective study of differences in the rate of socializing trait acquisition across controlled groups of feral vs. domesticated *human* populations. Chances of getting fu----cked and professionally ruined for daring to suggesting there is anything to study: Excellent

That's why there is, for now, a paucity (though not a complete absence) of current, objective scientific literature supporting the conclusion that Africa fails civilization because it lacks a broad enough base of humans who are ready for civilization. The sometimes well-meaning, but always fantastic notion that objective performance criteria can be applied to evaluate everything in the universe *except* human populations will pass.

>>2131587
Great Britain has not worsened, in fact overtook America for most of the 19th century. What kind of retarded comparison are you trying to make?

>>2131609
>ghana achieved independence in 1957: there were a series of coups until 1988
And S. Korea suffered the dictatorship of Syghman Rhee, how is that any different?

>south korea was already developed - it had an organisational structure and a proper, historical culture.
What organizational structure are you talking about? A brutal dictatorship? The South Korean state had to be formed from scratch. Not to mention that there was pretty much no infraestructure whatsoever because OF THE FUCKING CIVIL WAR.

>>2131449
Saying "durrr theres sum criticism on the wiki article" means nothing to me. Present a proper argument for me to refute or STFU.

>>2131620
Keep crying faggot.

All you're doing is repeating the same old tiered arguments, that people have continuously debunked in this thread.

P.S. You are still an idiot.

>>2131630

it never gets old because no matter how much science you throw at stormfags, they still are more convinced by simple one line statements like : IQ IS GREATER AMONG WHITES or BLACK COUNTRIES AREN'T DOING WELL

so even when you've unequivocally won, they just fall back on a line you've refuted 50 posts ago without argument and IT CYCLES AND CYCLES AND CYCLES

no intelligent person should waste time arguing with people like this.

all of you get out, sage in every field.

>>2131651

>And now you begin typing a response with "but Great Britain hasn't worsened you idiot lolz!"

>Great Britain has not worsened, in fact

You simply cannot be serious. If you're a troll then congratulations you fucking got me.

>>2131651

fact: ghana =/= south korea

fiction: there is evidence this is because of race and not any other amount of things.

>>2131661
>>2131664
>BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!
Blacks have:
1. Lower cranial capacity than whites
2. Lower average IQs than whites
3. Lower cortical neuron counts than whites

Whites, in turn, have:
1. Lower cranial capacity than Asians
2. Lower average IQs than Asians
3. Lower cortical neuron count than Asians

This is all backed by scientific evidence, with all scientific studies on the matter showing the same results (I dare you to find one disproving it), yet to you there's no way these differences can be genetic.

Sounds to me like the only ones ignoring scientific facts here are you.

>>2131651
The United States overtook Great Britain in economic size for a brief time around the year 1930, but lost that position during the Great Depression.

The world economy, despite popular opinion, is not a zero-sum game. GDP per capita in the United States rose 1000% during the Roaring Twenties, and at the same time GDP per capita in Great Britain (excluding territories) rose 500%.

>>2131685
I'm not going to be swayed by you telling me how to start my replies. Any actual arguments you wish to add?

>>2131696

Quite simply, none of these things are even remotely true, or defensible.

Now you're just embarrassing yourself.

>>2131696
You're not even trying any more, are you?

Trolls always give up at some point.

>>2131721
Want some sources? That's what I always end up doing anyway. We always provide sources and you never do.

In b4 "those scientists are evil racists" and other ad hominems to discredit the source.

Source:
Jensen, A. R. (1998). The g Factor: The Science of Mental Ability. Westport, CT: Praeger Publishers. ISBN 0-275-96103-6.

>>2131753
Cortical neurons.

Source:
Rushton, J. P. (2000). Race, Evolution, and Behavior: A Life History Perspective, 3rd, Port Huron, MI: Charles Darwin Research Institute. ISBN 0-9656836-1-3.

Nuke it. No people, no poverty.

Wait until it's safe to go back in, then use the land to grow crops for the rest of the world.

>>2131774
Relationship between group IQ and cranial capacity.

Redrawn from:
Jensen, A. R. (1998). The g Factor: The Science of Mental Ability. Westport, CT: Praeger Publishers. ISBN 0-275-96103-6.

>>2131753
You are aware that is just one person's findings, not a universally accepted fact.

Furthermore,you're a faggot for simply posting an out of context graph as your argument.

Stop being an idiot.

>>2131801
>>2131798
>>2131774
>>2131753

ahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahahha

he really did stop trying

>>2131798
In case you doubt of the validity of IQ tests, here's another measure that shows the exact same trend.

2001-2002 GRE scores - used in U.S. graduate schools - by race and ethnicity.

I love how this thread as morphed into a simulation of how society treats stormfags irl. Essentially one idiot ranting about nonsense, whilst being ignored by the rest of society.

>>2131753

Unless you have another study somewhere that positively links gross cranial capacity with IQ or test scores or something similarly numerical, it means nothing. If bigger brain = smarter, even within a population, then why arent't MIT and Harvard full of people who look like the Mars Attacks! aliens?

>>2131815
why is Hispanic and puerto rican separated?

Op here. I also started all those stupid barrack obama threads. Man this is a good read.

/r9k/ you've made me proud once again.

>>2131815

Correlation is causation holy shit now it all makes sense. Hey did you know all black people have black skin (that's genetics btw in case you didn't know) and they tend to under-perform on IQ tests in the USA. Maybe you should look into that possible GENETIC link between low IQ and skin color!!!

I won't be replying again, I've played the stormfront charts and graphs game enough times to know you're beyond reasonable logic if you've actually got that stuff ready.

>>2131851
because all of the spics hate peurto ricans

>>2131801
Actually, with this post, it's seven different person's findings, so far, and I'm planning on posting more. Sounds like you are butthurt!

Source:
Reynolds, C. R., Chastain, R. L., Kaufman, A. S. and Mclean, J. E. (Win 1987). "Demographic Characteristics and IQ among Adults - Analysis of the WAIS-R Standardization Sample as a Function of the Stratification Variables". Journal of School Psychology 25 (4): 323-342.

>>2131834
I lol'd. But cranial capacity is not "having a big head". A small difference of inches could potentially mean millions of extra neurons, assuming the correlation implies a causation. (which may not)

Korea:

Situated near china which was a vast empire and responsible for many scientific and medical advances

Ghana:

Has only recently stopped being tribesmen.

>>2131664

Arguing with racists is pointless. Racists are simply looking for scapegoats for there own failed lives. Using statistics or rational arguements to try and deal with someones personal pathology is a sure way to miss the actual issue.

The only way forward with racists is to examine their life experiences on a case by case basis and try to understand how racism developed as a defense against their feelings of inadequacy and social anxiety on the one hand and serve as an outlet for hatred which has roots in their personal history on the other.

>Craniometry
>Cortical neurons
>>2131815
>same correlation evidence that does not prove causation as the entire thread
>same BUT IQ IS GREATER GUYS argument used hundreds of times in this thread

it's over. this guy has dried up. he's reverted to stormfag staples. it's ok, we can all go home now.

The reason people denounce IQ is that it opposes the dominant ideology- egalitarianism. Egalitarians (read: socialists) destroyed anthropology and sociology just so no one could deny that all cultures are equal.

The results of IQ studies are politically unacceptable, hence are suppressed as far as possible. What do you think happened to James Watson? What do you think happened to Larry Summers? They were public authority figures that said something politically unacceptable. They had to recant or have their careers and legacies destroyed. It wouldn't be so explosive if it wasn't true.

>>2131877

Not Graph Guy here, but uh, WTF d00d. You ask for stats and proof and journal quotespooge, you get it, then butthurt BAWWW about it when you do?

>>too many posts

>>waah, I think I'm arguing with stormfags, so I can ignore whatever they say

I'm a white guy married to an Indian (asian)

IQ exists. A big part of it is genetic. Improving the environment in africa would maybe add 10 IQ points. The rest they have to evolve.

>>2131877
more?

Distribution of skull distance measurements for various racial groups. (F=Frontal skull distance measurement, O=Occipital skull distance measurement).

From:
McShane, D. (1983). "Neurocranial Form: Differentiating Four Ethnic Populations Using a Simple Ct Scan Measure". International Journal of Neuroscience 21: 137-144. PMID 6671869.

>>2131798

1) I'm black.

2) I've read this book in its entirety, leaving me scratching my head as to why I'm in first honors & the top 20th of my class based on GPA in a college that is over 50% white and 10% asian.

3) Then I read the book more, and realized that his argument was not LOL BLAX STUPID, as he specifically said that that reading of these findings is not his intent or not what he feels these results truly depict. If you understood anything about his "g factor" hypothesis you would know that your citation of his article a la carte is fairly irrelevant in any worthwhile sociological discussion.

Congratulations, you found some copypasta on a "realist racism" board on Stormfront.

>>2131967
nobody cogent argues 'lol all blax stupid' A lot of people just say a (a reason, not the only reason) reason not all blacks are as smart as Thomas Sowell is genetics.

>>2131877

>assuming the correlation implies a causation
>assuming correlation implies causation

Oh yeah, that's only the biggest fallacy in all of empirical observation. Let's just assume it so I can be right.

Dude, you're shooting yourself in the foot over and over again.

>>2131893

There may be some truth in this arguement. A lot of racists are unemployed or underemployed and reckon black people have stolen their jobs whereas the reality is that these characters are fucks up who have failed at school, have few social skills and arn't really fit for any kind of worthwhile employment.
At the same time, racism is a cultural phenomenum- there is a whole industry devoted to promulgating racist ideas and the false facts they spew out need to be challenged with reasoned arguement- and statistics- if need be. Its tedius but it has to be done.

>>2131946
Here, average IQ scores of minority groups from North American and Europe, excluding East Asians according to:

Lynn, R. (In press 2006). Race Differences in Intelligence: An Evolutionary Analysis. Washington Summit Books. 1593680201.

(sorry for the delay, I got muted)

>>2131919

oh here we go. we're in that spiralling decline of an argument where people claim all the evidence is against them because "somebody" has an "agenda" and has "infiltrated science"

tinfoils, please leave.

>>2131990

There's a particularly apt quote in Jensen's book that I can't place right now as a response to this, & frankly at 1 in the morning half high & half drunk I can't be bothered to look for it.

I highly suggest you read more books on the subject rather than cherry pick Western studies based on Western ideals using Western measures when you talk about intelligence from a global ethnic perspective.

>>2131996
The real industry is anti-racism. All that money can't wish away reality. Just saying racists are bad people and racism causes harm doesn't make racists wrong all the time.

If they spent less energy denying reality, we could do something practical like developing germline genetic engineering, then giving it to everyone. Or distributing sterilizing food aid to Africa. (no need to kill them).

>>2132021
FAIL. those scores are from shitty 50-year-old tests, and besides, they fail to account for the lack of comparative infrastructure. besides, The Southern Poverty Law Center lists Washington Summit Publishers as a White Nationalist Hate Group

>>2131994
I'm not saying that's the case, but sometimes strong correlations do show a link or cause behind them. Regardless, I believe the cortical neurons count and cranial capacity data speaks for itself.

>>2132021
Average IQ scores of East Asians living in North America and East Asia according to:

Lynn, R. (In press 2006). Race Differences in Intelligence: An Evolutionary Analysis. Washington Summit Books. 1593680201.

listen, keep posting graphs and studys that basically say:

>FUCK THE IQ OF BLACKS IS LOWER, ITS ALL OVER

because we wouldn't wan't to interrupt with our requests for scientific consensus, causation evidence, evidence from a legitimate (ie. not funded by the Pioneer eugenics foundation) scientific group

we've already said all that can be said against IQ, and you've already said
>IQ IS LOWER AMONG BLACKS GUYS LOOK
so please just stop.

>>2132028
Funny, that's what >>2132042 is doing!

>>2131967

Congratulations on being one of the Talented Tenth. Good for you, but that only means the other 9 tenths look all the worse for their failures. The fact that there are a couple brilliant spots in an otherwise underperforming group.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talented_Tenth

>>2132069
people criticise the pioneer fund by saying: lol racist.

Not by refuting them. Stephen Jay Gould is a shithead with useless arguments. The closest thing you have to a refutation is Flynn. And that doesn't close the deal.

>>2132050

>sometimes strong correlations do show a link or cause behind them

yes, but you have to PROVE it you stupid fuck, when it's equally likely that SHIT CONDITIONS cause shit IQ as it is that shit IQ causes SHIT CONDITIONS.

i'd say you should provide some evidence, but none exists.

>in b4 you post more evidence of correlation or return to that wiki article again

>>2132091

Fucking tab mix plus auto refresh pwned. Anyway you know where I was going.

Wait, hold on tards, Psychfag here. You guys do understand that a very large proportion of neural proliferation during synaptogenesis is experience-dependent, right? In non-moonspeak technical jargon, this means that if you aren't exposed to the proper stimuli as a baby, your brain will literally be emptier and contain fewer neurons.

It's not as much heredity-based as you think. Ergo, you get Asians, whose parents spend far more time with them than either whites or blacks during infancy and toddlerhood, with the higher levels of functioning, larger amounts of neurons, higher IQ's, etc. And blacks, who are much more likely to be from poor single parent households, will naturally be lower.

Very very few people within the psychology or neuroscience fields believe race is responsible for anything more than a trivial statistical difference in reasoning capability. All of the evidence can be explained away, or at least punctured by other evidence.

>>2132021
Oh hey guys look at my pretty picture which is related

>>2132146
Hence the importance of
adoption studies. See:

>>2130552

Turn Africa into a nuclear waste field. No more people, no more poverty.

>>2132114

SPOILER: "g" and the hereditability of intelligence are pretty much proven scientific facts. Read "The g Factor" if you want proof. I'm not going to start copypasting entire books here, I figured the pictures and book references would be enough.

>>2132028

The only issue in this thread is racism.

Africa hasn't developed along European lines simply for ecological reasons. Agriculture is extremely difficult in sub-saharan Africa (inpossible in many areas) and agriculture is the basis of all European cultures.

Nobodu expects Inuits to have developed an industrial civilisation in the Artic Circle. No one should expect Africans to have developed one in Sub-Saharan either.

All this stuff about IQ is a rehash of 19th Century European racist ideas which sort to justify colonial exploitation of non-european regions. It was self serving nonsense then and remains so today.

The only reason these arguemenrs keep resurfacing is the small residue of white individuals who need to try and feel superior in some small way to their fellow citizens.

>>2132154
Your picture has nothing to do with Europe or Caucasians. I deem it...uh...bad.
YA, so what if I'm drunk. wat

Leave them alone til they die off. No more niggers = no more poverty

>>2132208
>"g" and the hereditability of intelligence are pretty much proven scientific facts

you idiot, nobody is disputing heritability of intelligence.

we are disputing *race-wide* differences in innate biological intelligence.

Spearman's g-theory doesn't address the issue AT ALL

America should do the trick with average IQ of Over 9000

>>2132211
I'll agree with you that the environment in Africa is shitty. It's where we evolved, so it's where most parasites and diseases specialized to attack us reside.

Even minus that environment though, blacks on average underperform badly. (on average- I remember that fat black bastard who kicked my ass at EE 201)

Now, you want real subhuman intelligence, look at Australian aboriginies.

>>2132167

Nonadopted, with two White biological parents 117 109 3.0 64 69
Adopted, with two White biological parents 112 106 2.8 54 59

5 points? That's the culmination of this argument?

If I wanted to punch holes in that argument, I could easily say that the psychosocial repercussions of being black and raised by white parents could very well account for 5 points worth of difference. It's not too hard to imagine that child have a more difficult time in school or at play than a white kid.

Even the author acknowledges this "As Scarr & Weinberg (1976) note, transracial adoption studies only control for family environment, not social environment. For example, children who are socially identified as Black may still be subject to racial discrimination despite being raised by White parents."

>>2132256
Oh waah social discrimination kills my IQ. Must be why Chinese in Indonesia are so stupid. And Jews in Wiemar Germany had such rock bottom IQs. Oh wait, they didn't.

>>2132211

In Sub Saharan Africa you have year-round growing seasons, a nutrient-rich tropical climate, abundant rainfall - and this is difficult to make productive? The place is wall to wall vegetation. That's absurd. Especially to compare with Europe, where 1/4 to 1/2 the year the ground is frozen and completely unfarmable whatsoever, not to mention cloud cover and short daylight hours in the same period.

Next excuse, please.

>>2132256

reread the results, you've gotten confused.

not racistfag here. the difference in this study was more than 5.

but the study does not represent consensus, and i largely fringe science. it may also be total baloney, especially since it tests subjects from the 1960s

>>2132229
lol i was just making fun of another post...scroll up!

>>2132211
>Nobodu expects Inuits to have developed an industrial civilisation in the Artic Circle. No one should expect Africans to have developed one in Sub-Saharan either.

Well, we certainly should expect Africans to have some measure of civilization today, now that globalization puts pretty much every good and machinery at their reach.

Iceland is a barren volcanic rock in the middle of nowhere, yet it has some of the best living standards in the world.

Tuvalu is a couple of shitty islands with no resources whatsoever, they get most of their income from selling its .tv internet domain to large corporations.

Oil aside, the argument that resources are the main determinant of your wealth is no longer valid in the 21st century.

>>2132268

Entirely different contexts & entirely different situations. Even comparing the Chinese in Indonesia & the Jews in Germany is absolutely absurd.

Also, the difference is 5 points. 117 vs. 112. Both kids have above average intelligence and are, for all practical intents and purposes, equal.

>>2132256
Again, it's a 7.8 point difference, not 5.
Stop minimizing it.

7.8 is nearly one standard deviation.

The main problem with Africa is that the world really wants it to remain poor and easily exploitable.

Africa is what the western world has made it to be.

>>2132293
YOU ARE COMPARING TWO GROUPS OF WHITE PEOPLE.

Adopted whites vs. Non-adopted whites!
Do you even read the stuff you quote?
Christ.

>7.8 is nearly one standard deviation.

7.8 is NOT nearly 15

>>2132251
>blacks on average underperform badly.
A common fallacy. It's not so much that blacks underperform badly, it's that poor people tend to underperform badly, and blacks tend to be overwhelmingly poor.

And the same thing happens in Africa--lots of poor people, thus lots of stupid people. There's some culture stuff (I've been told about black kids being made fun of for "acting white", which includes doing well in school), but it's mostly poverty.

blacks in America have some white blood in them, that's why they score (a bit) better than Africans but lower than whites

>>2132371
melanin has nothing to do with it, try again

>>2132379
race is more than melanin

>>2132251
>Now, you want real subhuman intelligence, look at Australian aboriginies.

ausfag here. australian racists are more widespread, perverse and much much more subtle and covert.

ausfags have a sort of "hey it's not racist if it's true!" friendly jokey attitude that hides their perverse hatred of other human beings based purely on their skin colour and the fact that they're poor.

i cannot criticise americans for being racist to their blacks because it's so much worse here - so much more... subtly evil.

at least you know stormfags are crazy.

>>2132307

I was at the WTO summit in 2006 in HK doing my thesis on fair trade, and holy shit are you right. I honestly felt so bad for every single country who isn't in the G8.

We are fucking them over so hard right now it's not even funny. I was your typical ardent laissez-faire fanatic before I started this project and right now everything I've ever believed concerning economics is suspect.

Regardless of what the facts say, if you believe that genetics can account for more than a minuscule amount of what's going on now, I urge you to go out and experience the world from these people's perspective.

>>2132358
This IQ debate is pretty stupid since of course people are going to have poorer IQ, if they're not schooled and live in poverty.

>>2132420
Hey, someone has missed the entire argument!

Blacks in America or the UK score lower than whites. Even wealthy blacks score in average worse than poor whites.

>>2132389
Sweet Science those things are ugly.

The reason Africa isn't doing well is because a lot of African's don't value education which is because of their inherit problems from having a (mostly) rough terrain that's hard to cultivate, oppression, and war.
Africa is not a very fertile place... the rainy seasons are RAINY and the dry seasons are DRY

>>2132307

Africa is almost exactly the same place it was before any Westerner ever set foot there. That's the remarkable thing about it. Apart from crudely adopting a few ideas about law, economics, education, government and technology - ideas that were readily adopted and powerfully leveraged by other subjugated cultures who endured the same colonial "introduction" to them - Africa still remains a corruption-riddled basket case at the back of the class - a near-nonplayer on the world stage. That being said, its position as the victimized object of charity does stroke more than a little misplaced 1st world guilt, and I reckon is some sort of positive contribution.

>>2132489
If you're suggesting the the westerners are not the cause for the problems that Africa has in historical perspective, you're pretty deluded.

>>2132441
Wealth =/= Intelligence

regardless of race

>>2132582
Seriously? that's wrong guys you got people like this all wrong they are actually really smart irl!

>>2132564

Roll back the clock to somewhere around 1600AD. Europe is blooming in the Renaissance and has no presence whatsoever in Africa apart from light trade with coastal cities.

Africa (sub saharan Africa in particular) at the same time period is Africa now. A backwards, tribalist, bloody, stone age mess.

>>2131967
Anecdotal evidence != Empirical evidence


HURR BUT IM TOP 20% OF MY CLASS U DONT NO WHAT UR TALKING ABOUT

>>2132625
That's only due to Europe's geographical position.

The major trade routes did not reach Africa.

Try again faggot.

>>2131279
That's what I would expect you to say when you get refuted.

>>2131403
>Asians have an obsession with education.
Ya that's not a moronic generalization based on what you see in your own country how would that apply to all countries that have Asians living in them at all? That is just as blatantly racist as saying blacks are dumber.

>>2131557
HOLY FUCK YOU BETTER BE TROLLING.
>2) Jews didn't face entrenched racism
Nope you are completely devoid of any information on this topic at all.

>>2131584
>even more faggoted
Jesus fuck they need to hurry up with that kill people over the internet button.

>>2132702

Dear Apologist for Failure - What part of "light trade" - emphasis on "light" - did you not understand? Coastal cities on the north shore of Africa certainly did have limited trade with Europe at this time. Many of the "Trade winds" in the Mediterranean have Berber-derived name like Khamsin and Ghibli. -100 Internets for lame attempt at a nitpick to sidetrack the topic.