The seeking of profit above pretty much everything else.

I think you just accidentally a verb.

BAWWWWWWWWW ITS UNFAIR I'M SO JEALOUS OF MY NEIGHBOR WHY CAN'T THE GOVERNMENT MAKE HIM SHARE? BAWWWWWWWWW

ever see the movie idiocracy?

i rest my case.

>>2108269
Half of the currencies in that graphic don't even exist anymore.

Capitalism without control leads to huge income gaps, exploitation of labor, low quality standards, environmental damage, so forth.

>>2108343
Those are all imaginary problems.

it's not really that efficient. competition is not necessarily the most efficient way of doing things, stuff like energy or transportation or education. the problem with a pure capitalism is that it places all resources in the hands of people who have only the accumulation of more property in mind. this doesn't work because they fuck over everyone else, and it just isn't sustainable.

The flaw of capitalism is that the man who invented the velcro wallet is a multi-millionaire and the man who invented alternating current electricity died penniless.

capitalism restricts innovation by making a small number of people far too strong to rally against in any meaningful way.

These people then use their wealth and power to restrict others, hence holding back the future in fear of losing their present power.

It's also very unhealthy yo push yourself forward over nd over to earn money. Your health starts to fail etc.

Capitalism greatest tool is the advertisement industry, and greatest flaw its that it facilitates greed and exploitation.

Outsourcing jobs to other countries where companies can pay workers 12 cents an hour so they can make a $2 profit.

Capitalism has no cons. It is the perfect natural system of exchange.

Either perform or die.

Depends on what you call capitalism. Socialists will call pretty much anything that doesn't enable them to live off of government handouts capitalism, while Randroids refuse to call anything capitalism if it isn't laissez-faire capitalism.

>>2108357
Unfortunately there are no pure meritocracies, so that could be a problem no matter what system we use.

I think its been pretty much proven that laissez-faire capitalism will kill us all.

>>2108371
If that was true then today's Dow Jones index should be almost exclusively filled with companies that were big in 1960. Capitalism is merciless towards all, even blue chip companies.

>>2108428
yes, but that's the principle argument for capitalism: that it rewards merit above all else. it doesn't even accomplish that.

Because greed, for lack of a better term, is good. Greed is what drives us, what binds us, what pushes us to our greatest hights.

The whole computer and internet?

>>2108519
precisely why feudalism was so successful!

>>2108465
just because house is cleaned often enough doesn't mean that power isn't consolidated in absurd, unfair, and impractical ways.

Unbridled capitalism = horrific dystopia

Government is required to intervene in this economic system, usually with adverse effects, but necessarily to maintain stability.

But the capitalist class constantly struggle to undermine this democratic function of government, as it reduces their profits. Since the 1980s they have been extraordinarily successful, so real wages have declined

One of the cons would be the fact that our economy is currently imploding.

Real wages decline, more profit for companies. Workers complain= send their jobs overseas, bring in the immigrant force and treat them like shit= more profit! capitalism fuck yeah!

a) We can own an internet and computer... if our parents are rich
b) We can earn $$$s if we live in one of the top countries.... but at age 40 we'll have midlife crisis and realise entire life has been a lie
c) Our society values $$$s above everything else, even though $$s are just arbitrary pieces of paper that buy televisions and crap.

>>2108630

Thanks for the laugh Mr. Bubbles.

The problem with capitalism is that you get a few people in charge of a significant chunk of the economy, and after a while their desire for profit outweighs their fear of taking on too much risk, and then there is a massive clusterfuck involving the whole damn global financial system, so government suddenly has more credibility than any private institution, and then capitalism dies a slow death, bleating in pain, while government screws everything up even more as it tries to shift to a more socialist system on the fly. Milton Friedman would be proud.

Capitalism definitely has it's place in he world. Competition is a wonderful economic engine in that if you give some people the power to make a lot of money, they will work incredibly hard for that, to everyones benefit.

The catch is that capitalism is all about short term profits, and technology is shortening the time frame required to recoup an investment from years to months to hours. Stock market traders think in terms of "how much money can I make before 5pm?"

The problem is the society needs a long term view. If we want educated employees in 15 years, we have to start now or it won't happen. The market won't invest in anything for that long and, rather then plan ahead, will simply adjust for a lack of education later. The market will do fine, the population, not so much.

I think that the ideal economic system would be split between short term players, who drive the economy, and social engineers, who try to ensure that the population is supported in ways that will make the short term guys happy down the road.

>>2108465

Meaningless. Look at statistical correlation between wealth and parents having wealth. You think that a Rothschild is ever going to struggle? They're set for life, even though they haven't technically done anything to 'deserve it' or contributed to society in any way (until they grow up and have a chance to do so). IMO this is one of the main caveats of capitalism - arbitrary transferrance of wealth onto heirs - basically this is the root of the problem with the class gap how it is.

None.


Capitalism is the best and most pure system in history.

Make money any which way you can.

It's awesome.

Ill give you the best answers possible. There is no better system than capitalism, it just doesn't exist. Everything else is just theories with no place in the real world

capitalism sucks! go socialism!

>>2108745
GO LIBERTARIANISM WHOO

>>2108714

The stock market =! the entire economy. Companies only succeed in the long term because of long term planning. If instant gratification was all that made a profit, private equity firms would but up and liquidate every corporation in the country.

>>2108717
But it doesn't exist anywhere.

I want to sell hard drugs. I want to peddle tools of enlightenment to make my living.

I can't do that under our current system anywhere in the world without facing prosecution.

>>2108771
Seen the news lately?

pure capitalism is an entirely mythical entity.

governments do always and must always intervene in the workings of the economy; nay, not intervene, because they are an intrinsic part of the economy.

the only IN PRACTICE dichotomy resembling the socialist/capitalist ideological divide is reliance on markets/reliance on other institutions.

that said, evidence consistently suggests that a mixed economy functions the best.

I agree that ideally capitalism would be fantastic but this is the real world.

>everyone of us can a computer and internet right
Us who? Nerds? Because a very small minority of among us, humans, can afford something to eat. It's people with a limited vision of things who defend Capitalism.

>>2108771
From a corporate perspective, long term planning means staying profitable, regardless of any social cost. The manufacturing industry stays profitable by relocating factories to where ever there is cheap labor.

From a social perspective, long term planning might mean having a healthy, educated work force that can attract industry. To do this, you need a stable environment for education, health and welfare so that the people are attractive to industry. Industry has no incentive to home grow a workforce, it's easier to simply adapt.

The catch is that industry is more productive (and profitable) if they don't have to adapt, and society is better off if everybody is working. Capitalism doesn't solve this problem, and socialism doesn't make individuals rich. The ideal would be to use both systems.

>>2108825
Mixed economies sure are doing great right now.

>I mean , everyone of us can a computer and internet right, and having a brilliant idea= $$$$

LOL


R9k only gets dumber every day

>>2108825

>that said, evidence consistently suggests that a mixed economy functions the best.

CLEARLY YOU WISE ECONOMIST

http://www.google.com/search?q=bailout+package&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozill
a:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
http://www.google.com/search?q=S%26L+scandal&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:
en-US:official&client=firefox-a
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&h
s=em7&q=corporate+welfare&btnG=Search

Because we fucking NEED people in charge who can run the economic system to their advantage.

>>2109367
You imagine that in a so-called "free market" that no one is running things.

Consider this, in a "free market" the individual is pitted against economic institutions who have thousands of full time employees researching how to best allocate capital, they spend hundreds of thousands on research from private sources, and they have billions to invest.

Who do you think is going to win?

The free market is an illusion sold to the middle class, the middle class by into the fantasy by imagining that they will one day become rich, instead, they end up having very little and never mattering very much.

The market is only a subsection of human activity, only a demonstration of certain political wills and in a "free market" certain wills easily trample over others, while maintaining the illusion of freedom.

>>2109514

In a free market millions and millions of individual decisions guide the course of natural progression and societal evolution.

The only way to prevent competition from toppling large institutions is through STATE protection.

Free markets are more beneficial to small to medium sized businesses than any other economic system. In fact - they are essential for them to *even exist*.

Economic freedom is not a separate entity from individual freedom. The misconception that the two are separate is a fallacy.

Freedom does not require wealth nor does it deny it's creation.

There can be no free markets because large and rich companies can use their power to leverage markets, affect the actions of government, etc. Anyone who thinks we have free markets is an idiot.

Unequal dispersion of resources.
Huge economic gap between the rich and the poor.

Fostering of greed.
Rejection of love and charity.
Pure capitalism is essentially soul destroying.

>>2109763

I work in a niche software market that is a relatively free market still. There is no government intervention yet, we have to compete directly with other competitors. We are expecting the government to intervene eventually but since our market is so small there is not enough money to catch the interests of big businesses and their paid for politicians.

Free markets can exist and be increased, but it will require the economically ignorant (you) to cease being the fucking prey of the state.

cheers!

http://www.cato-unbound.org/2008/11/10/roderick-long/corporations-versus-the-market-or-whip-conflati
on-now/
If you haven't read this article, you are a stupid nigger. I know I was.

>>2109733
You are so brainwashed and your argument does not even hold weight at all.

Competition can fail to topple institutions for so many reasons.

Let's show a few cases: First, Large companies can buyout competitors and just shelve their technology because it would make their technology obsolete. The small company cannot gain the capital necessary to manufacture or produce and is thus drowned.

Second, Barriers to Entry. Some products require enormous capital expenditures to develop -- joe the inventor will not have access to that capital.

Third, you are taking all markets out of the state framework and fantasizing. Want to know what happens in weak states? The large and already successful companies just kill the competition. Literally. In Africa, disputes are not taken to a legal framework to be resolved, instead you just kill the competition.

You make the unwarranted assumption that choices regarding power (politics) and choices regarding money (economics) are not deeply intertwined, and that Markets have rules. They do not have rules unless a state agent puts them there, and the free market has asymmetries of information.

There is no "invisible hand", there are real people making real decisions, and some of them are cruel, cold-blooded, and against the interests of humanity as a whole.

Some day, you will actually work and understand it. Until then, you will regurgitate stale 17th century ideals.

>>2109794

In all of recorded history only the market forces which create capital to be stored has delivered more goods and services to as many people - societies which create forms of capital have prosperity. Economic divides are created when capital is controlled by few, remove this ability and it redistributes to those who work hardest for it. Greed does not disappear when you create supreme state authority - in fact only the force of arms through the state grants authority to the greedy over the people. Recognizing that greed is a human flaw is why law should be written to protect individual liberties.

Pure "capitalism" requires sound money, or the ability to create savings. True capitalism is based on saving the fruits of your labor, your lifes work into a store of value. This is not what creates greed - this is what creates prosperity and ultimately the charity you mentioned.

There is no other force aside from your life being prosperous that will create charity.

>>2109855

Also complete bullshit. Charity is an act of will and is not bread by wealth. While yes, the wealthy can contribute more they do not necessarily contribute at all. Some people do not give, they would not give if they had ten dollars to their name and they would not give if they had a hundred million dollars to their name.

You do not even know about stores of value, or about inflation and why it is necessary to the credit system, or monetary policy, or anything. You've read a few adam smith excerpts, a bit of rand, and then just snide cynical comments from a few people, and you have synthesized them into a shoddy and incorrect philosophy.

>>2109817

Wow. I agree with something someone else posted about what someone else wrote?

bad spellers of the world.. UNTlE!!

>Recognizing that greed is a human flaw is why law should be written to protect individual liberties.
In a true capitalist society this would never happen, because of microeconomic reform and specialization removing the idea of individual importance in favor of more money.

Rest of your points seem fair, though.
But what of those born into bad situations that because of the system can not get out of their poverty?
A child born into a poor family can not afford education, and so is not well educated and can never amount to anything through labor alone.

Serious question here guys. Does Chomsky ideas about an ideal society hold any weight? can a society prosper and flourish outside profits and greed or have i been so brainwashed by this culture that i see no other way of living? I mean seriously...you guyz

Capitalism is far from perfect. It's also far more perfect than any of the alternatives.

>>2109956
Chomsky is wrong

>>2109956

The Free Software Movement has done alright.

Also, consider reading Orwell's Homage to Catalonia for an account of anarchist Spain which lasted for a little while.

>>2109845


I would say it is not that I am "brainwashed" as much as that you are unable to comprehend how natural laws effect the markets. Competition can fail to topple institutions for many many reasons, and this is why we have large successful corporations. There is nothing wrong with strong companies who do good business and satisfy the consumers of their products. There is much wrong with corporatism and the collusion of large corporate bodies, government sanctioned cartels, and massive corruption caused by "mixed" economic systems.

As for your "cases": yes, large companies can buyout competitors but can only "shelve" technology - but only by using the state to prevent similar technologies from emerging. This does not have anything to do with small companies not being able to manufacture or produce. But even then - small companies and startups manage to rise above the competition all the time. Free enterprise and entreprenuership exist and can only exist in free markets which provide opportunity for new technologies and innovation. These competitive forces innovate and create technologies and services that compete and drive down prices while increasing quality. In the end, the only anti-competitive methodology that is a guarantee is the force of the state. From subsidization to guaranteed marketshare, it is unfortunate that even in times of mass extremity in collusion you still cannot see what truly prevents competition and creates barriers.

As for removal of the state from the markets, only as far as collusion. Fraud or theft should be punished by the court system as should damage to the life of an individual. It is the understanding that power and money corrupt that creates the need for restraint on power. It is the force of the state that allows the corporation to create unnatural barriers to entry.

As for work - I have a real job working with real money, but really let's not sully ourselves with infantile behavior and namecalling.

>>2109934


A true capitalist society is not a society operating in a specific system of government. The misconception on just what capitalism really is creates more problems for us than anything I can really think of. True capitalism is a side effect of being free. Wherever people have been most free, capitalism has appeared with them. It is only in the state that we have seen corruptive forces gain power over capitalist peoples.

Capitalism requires capital which is merely is a store of value. It is not a true system merely an effect of one. If you understand capital as being a store of value you must understand what creates this capital as well as what that capital can possibly be. Capital can be anything you choose it to be, or that is accepted in fair exchange by someone who desires what you possess. Ultimately however that - store of value - is a storage unit for the highest form of commodity in existence today: your individual life's time. As your time is your most precious asset, the value of your time (i.e. your labor) is stored within what you create out of nature and convert into capital.

All of the other trappings, greed or corruptive forces, are not byproducts of capitalism. They are byproducts of human nature, the sins of the heart or the lust for wealth or power. They will not disappear by removing free exchanges from ordinary people, they will only worsen as those who gain power will work to maintain this power. These corruptive forces are why we are supposed to have a constitutional republic protecting us from the state. So that no single source of power can control the people, and that the people may remain free to live their lives as they choose.

>>2110037

You are such a fraud.

"Natural laws"? You have not even taken an economics class. You're not able to talk at the intellectual level and cower behind sweeping generalizations, and you Beg the Question at every "response" you provide.

You run to phrases you do not understand and are a fraud and a coward.

>>2110141

behind your wall of text you are merely saying:

"free exchanges are less corrupt than governments"

be more fucking succinct, nobody want's to trawl through your purple prose jammed full of appeals to emotion and meaningless adjectives.

>>2110594
Shut the fuck up and get off my internet.
Someone takes the time to write a good response, and you bitch that they use too many words? Eat a bag of dicks you fucking retard.

Please, please, don't let these idiots drown out the sense.

>>2110695
this dude was obviously writing prose.

have you ever read a hunter thompson book?

shit.

>>2110695
You are wrong. He was writing in length but his words were essentially meaningless. 2110594 called him on it.

It was a fourth grade "idea" expressed in obscurantist language to make it sound smart when in reality it is not. It is the base and intellectually vapid -- it is a meme, one repeated by idiots who are not thinking but are instead just regurgitating things they have heard which stuck with them.

>>2108352
damn newspapers and their filling 80 double tabloid pages with imaginary news, then :(

>>2108519
the word you are looking for is "ambition". Greed cannot be seen under a positive light, because it involves your horading of wealthy at the cost of the lacks of others.

>>2108672
Until those workers get fed up too, or start dying from the ever increasing misery of their life styles? What is your beloved capitalism gonna do once it has sucked dry the juice from the rest of the world? Turn out on each other like mad wolves I guess. Enjoy your WW4 fought not between nations but between corporations.

>>2108717
>Make money any which way you can, which usually involves fucking everyone else. It's awesome.

Fix'd

>>2110748

Eh, you know the insults do not really bother me. It's just a sign of an inferior argument from an inferior person.

I mean ... let's look at this here:

>>2110504

Did you even say anything? No, each statement devoid of content. You did manage to sit there stewing in your own juices completely outraged at a difference of opinion. But you offered no content, no rebuttal, and nothing of merit.

Capital is stored value, and labor is owned by the individual not the state. Oh, and for the record: lol you fucking fail.

itt: 4chan demonstrates that not one anon has ever studied anything other than computer science

>>2110504

>You run to phrases you do not understand and are a fraud and a coward.

it does not lie in the mouth of a faggot who has, on alternate days, claimed to be a lawyer, investment banker, the scion of a wealthy family, et cetera to allege fraud.

by the way, how are your classes going? (i minimally credit you with actually being a law student)

"When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain."

Napoleon Bonaparte

Capitalism has a lot of cons. The worst is that capitalist countries need economic growth to avoid disaster.

Recession =unemployment=high misery including high crime, political instability,

Depression= hunger, riots,rise of extremism, nationalistic wars, social collapse in the long run.

So governments will do anything to keep GDP climbing.

This would be fine in a world of infinite resources but resources are not infinite. Peak oil is close or already upon us. Many important mineral resources will be entirley depleted during the course of this century.

Then there is global warming, climate change, mass extinctions of plant and animal species, unpredictable environmental changes of all kinds.

Captalism is a danger to the whole planet and everyone on it.

BAWWWWWWW

Some French douchebag.

>>2111708
Sup Thomas Malthus.

This thread sounds like a bunch of sociologists got into a pissing match.

ITT: people who hasn't read Marx and should probably read Mises.

CRY MORE GODLESS COMMIES!

the problem is not the system, the problem is us, look at all this bunch of faggots getting butthurt because someone disagrees with their ideas, both sides, capitalism is the actual paradigm but sooner or later it'll be replaced with a more efficient social organization system, we should be discussing that instead of feeding trolls and retards

>>2111799
no one should read Mises. Economics isn't deductive naval gazing anymore. If economics wants to sit at the big boy table it is going to have to use actual empirical data to make conclusions

>>2111820
Marxism isn't the only alternative there is to capitalism, although it's certainly the most popular in a harmless, pre-packaged kind of way. There exist other actually viable systems that capitalists repressed through force of arms and subsequently propaganda.

>>2111758


How long will mineral resourses last at present rates of consumption and at rates of consumption expected in the near future?

New Scientist magazine made these estimates

SOCIALISM IS TEH DEVUUUULLLLLLL

Because the working class shall rise above and stop those that exploit money to make money.

>>2111907

Graphic failed trying again

People seem to not know what capitalism means.

Capitalism == a concentration of capital due to coertion.

Capitalism has nothing to do with a free market. Free market's main feature is voluntary exchanges of goods. There's nothing voluntary in capitalism.

>>2111937

Soon the working classes will no longer exist in the USA and Europe, there will only be financial services, media, and a huge underclass. Asia will build everything.

>>2111907
the most important resource is already depleted, new lands

>>2111987
unemployed and angry, sounds good to me

>>2111946

If I'm reading this shit right, indium for LCDs will run out in 4 to 13 years. Zinc will run out in about 40 years, silver will run out in between 9 and 30 years.

>>2112065

graphic fails, they forgot to calculate vespene and minerals

>>2111946
COME BACK ZINC

pls?

>>2111708
Spoiler: all economic models in essence rely on the assumption of infinite resources. It doesn't make any difference how we go about things--the fact of the matter is that we're going to run out of stuff eventually. Peak oil would affect a communistic or socialistic society just as much as a capitalistic one. Everyone's fucked when it happens; whether the government is doling out the goods or people are competing for them doesn't change how much of them there are.

>>2111946

This chart is complete fucking garbage.

>>2112190

Nice arguement, there. Neatly expressed, well supported, refuted the assertion that we are fucked with reassuring gravitas.

Capitalists do it ruthelessly. Communists do it lazily.

If you don't support capitalism you're a pussy. It's that simple.

>>2112190
I agree
I don't know about the facts and figures but there's tons of chartjunk
the design teamneeds to be beaten for that piece of shit chart

>>2112181

the whole point of economic modelling is to attempt the best solution to the problem of scarcity. you fucking retard :\

>>2112181

The point is that either we adopt a system which involves a lot less pointless consumption or we run into one of a dozen or so environmental walls and our societies disintegrate catastophically.

Captalism in its present form simply isn't viable. The good thing is that we have the science and most of the technology already to cope with these threats. The bad news is we don't have the political systems to be anything but lemmings heading for the cliff.

We face an ecological credit crunch far greater than the global financial crisis, warn leading environmental groups.

In the latest Living Planet Report, WWF, the Zoological Society of London and the Global Footprint Network say the Earth's natural resources are being depleted so quickly that the equivalent of two planets would be required to sustain current lifestyles by the mid-2030s.


http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn15063

>>2112887

Teenagers shouldn't be exposed to this kind of shit, life is depressing enough as it is.

>>2112887

Asteroid mining, problem solved.

Also, stop people reproducing and stop wasting resources on stupid shit like SUVs

>>2111973
Class Struggle, dear Mr., the Prime method for impoverishment is the taking of Surplus value that, of course is what makes the owners of the Means of Production rich.
>>2112007
Hold on there you fisiocrat, there is still plenty of land to be used, but more importantly, land is not only the only mean of production, of course that we will need land, but that is no longer the more important resource.
>>2113255
So it is better for them to stay alienated and to continue wasting resources like crazy, brainwashed by the Capitalist media machine; no thanks.
>>2109817
Wow, this is way more enlightened than i expected, but he fails to mention that 'big business' is a natural consecuence of a free market, regardless of state's intervention, just as natural selection is a consecuence of total liberty on the natural realm, the key to social darwinism lies on the same that natural darwinism, and that is the 'selfish gene' (inb4 Dawkins), the gene only cares about his survival, just as an individual in a capitalist 'society', he does not care about the future of the living being (society), he only 'cares' on passing on the next generation (earning profit & benefits). And just as we are a collection of genes that are not superior, but have only been able to replicate to the next generation (neither Capitalism nor Evolution is survival of the fittest, as Darwin himself said about evolution), the 'high class' is formed of people that have been able to conserve (and generate) capital throught generations. Of course that the easiest way to conserve earnings or capital is by assuring your control of the means of production.

Capitalism isn't the best system, it's the worst system; it's lazy, inefficient and counterproductive. By encouraging profits, it discourages innovation, it discourages the welfare of man, and it discourages economic security. People say it's the most efficient way to distribute wealth; bullshit! It's the least efficient way! It's random, it's arbitrary; the entire system is based on people getting lucky with new technology. The inventor can go to shit for all the capitalist cares, as long as some college student invested a few bucks in it and turned out $3 million dollars a few years later. People say those who don't work hard oppose capitalism, but that's simply untrue. Capitalism is a lottery and has nothing but utmost appeal to the useless.

Well the basic (in my own stupid little opinion) problem of capitalism is the exact opposite of communism. Communist flaw is that only supplies you the basics of what you need (basics: food, shelter, clothing). It doesn't give you the blue jeans, fast cars, video games, and all the consumer goods we worship and depend on in our western culture.

Capitalism on the other hand gives what we want but not what we need. We have people living in ghettos or trailer parks and playing x-box 360 (they tend on luxury goods because they don't have long term plans towards saving for a better life) and not have access to basic health care or access to a decent education or kids who have terrible problems do to poor nutrition. The greatest gap between rich and poor is in the United States.

People only hate capitalism because it holds individuals completely and utterly at the mercy of their failures.

>>2113662
HAHAHAHAHAHA

Seriously? Socialism is lazy. Why would anyone work hard when their government can bail them out anyways? Why do anything when your goverment will provide it for you? Why innovate when your goverment has everything taken care of and you need not worry about it?

But the problem with Socialism is that if people don't work, the government has nothing to tax, and if the government does not make money from taxes, they can't give you shit, and if they can't give you everything, you're fucked because you can't fend for yourself and don't want to work for it.

>>2113717
THANK YOU FOR POSTING THIS

This anon is highly right. Look at the US and its turn to socialism. Banks fail, the automotive industry fails, American Express fails, and the government is throwing over $1,000,000,000,000 (literally, 1 trillion dollars) and using every trick they can to bail them out. If they fail. people would lose jobs, but the US economy might shift in a direction that would make the country stronger later on, instead of bankrupting the government.

Capitalism works with a little bit of socialism. Universal healthcare, bitches.

There are no flaws. It is the perfect economic system. The state is a monopoly over force, so it is ethical for it to aim to preserve justice and solely that. Once justice is achieved to a reasonable degree people naturally seek to find the best economic system that their intelligence and skills allow. Capitalism is merely the fruits of this liberty, all it is is the employment of mathematical and scientific models of reality to take into account supply, demand and negotiating power of individuals therein. It is why America is the greatest country in the world today.

Capitalism is built on the worst qualities of man, communism, the best.

The former works, the latter does not. This says volumes about humanity, and it's a grim tale.

>>2113810
The problem with communism is that it's never true communism. It's always corrupted into totalitarianism. It also equalizes people that are clearly of lesser merit than others. i.e. Construction worker who didn't go to school is making the same as a doctor who was in school for 10 years.

>>2113810
Greed is neither good or bad. All it does is motivate people. If we felt no pain or pleasure at all we'd probably just sit around meditating like hippies or some crazy shit and nothing interesting would happen.

>>2113804
I FUCKING LOVE CINDY
Unfortunately the rs appears to be dead, which is sad.

Oh right, capitalism. Fucking boring.

The thing is, having a brilliant idea isn't enough anymore. You have to have money to begin with to make that brilliant idea start making money. Enter rich fuckheads. They'll give you the money to bring that brilliant idea to life, in exchange for the lion's share of the profits from it. And a guarantee that if you stop working for them, you won't work for any of their competition for several years. And the rights to anything else you come up with. In the end, your brilliant idea nets you a few bucks, the same as every other middle class American, while the rich fuckhead who funded it gets even richer off your work.

>>2113810

We produce more than enough globally to ensure that everyone can have a decent standard of living already. Why do we need capitalism to strip the planet of the last remaining resources just so the rich can squander them?

The wealthy genuinely don't care about ordinary people. They pay large amounts of money to avoid even bumping into ordinary people. Yet in a capitalist society the rich have the power to decide the fate of that society.

Gated communities, country estates, exclusive resorts, million dollar cruisers, private jets- these are the ways the rich squander our resources and defend themselves from everyday reality.

We are being piloted towards environmental and economic disaster by people who hate us and fear us.

>>2113826
>Construction worker who didn't go to school is making the same as a doctor who was in school for 10 years.

Umm... Making? Communism, mate. Communism. There's no pay in communism. Everything belongs to everyone.

>>2113826
>>2113739
The thing is you always value your work higher than the work of others, i bet you have not worked in the construction field (for the record, me either), it is damn tiring and it is a physical effort. Why does a man that sweats his ass off 10 hours a day does not deserves a right to live a decent life, i'm not saying he should live in luxury, but he would be able to sustain himself, a parter and 1 or 2 childs if he chose to have any of those... now if he decides to have a shiton of kids or waste his money getting drunk, he is screwed, and he deserves so...

Socialism is not lazy, socialism is designed to reward hard work, To each according to his contribution.
According to socialism, anyone that can work up to the standard, will have a standard way of living (read as necesities), if you work your ass off, you will get rich, if you are lazy you will starve. Simple and fair as that.
Now communism, says that you get all you need, but you give all you can, and altought i would be delighted to live in a world like that, i think that might never exist.

>>2113827
Yeah, greed is so good on a zero sum enviroment, we do not have enough shit for everyone, so let's just screw some and give others luxuries, even when they did not obtained their wealth through hard work

>>2113662
Sorry but not, by appealing to greed, it pushes people to work their asses off, that's why even most of the people are fucked with it, would fight to defend it (that, and that they are brainwashed by the U.S. govermnent, the World bank, and almost every rich company, to fight against socialism)

>>2113785
That's market socialism, and that is what they have in almost all first world countries (guess what country does not)

>>2113717
That is not only a weak argument, but a complete fallacy... obvious troll is obvious

>>2113768
you know, if the US economy goes to the crapper, guess where all of those jobs and profits will end up, China...

>>2114086
Exaclty and that's why it is so utopic for it to work :(
>>2113810
True, but comunism is utopic and capitalism is dystopic

>>2113717
Also, you deserve to fail, just because you were born in a shithole, your parents were abusive, you were born with a disease, yeah, those babies truly deserve that. And guess what happens when those babies grow up, they become slaves of the wage, fresh meat for the capitalist machinery.
>>2114084
>>2114056
Who controls the media, the education, who make the products on which we rely; buisness, of course they will defend it, to death, they will fight for the free market to dissapear (a natural tendency of capitalism, enhaced by globalization), that is why the control of the media and the production should be in hands of the people and the prime extension of the people's power SHOULD be the government, a democratically elected government.
One of the shittiest things of the US's Government is that is ruled by people who hate the government, as it does not turn profit to them. I was impressed when i talked to a statal worker from Japan, he was so proud to work for his nationals, it was amazing, most workers from the state do not realize that they are public workers, at the service of the people.

ITT: people who do not know either capitalism nor socialism, nor comunism
Read some Marx, and read some Friedman. See Friedman pwned by a real science man

:P, looks liek i accidentally the whole thread,
i'll have to bamp

capitalism and communism both fail tremendously in the real world.
Communism and socialism rely on an infallible political system.
Capitalism relies on an infallible people.

GOOD THING I'M A THIRDWAYFAG

anarchy sukkas

Capitalism is dead. Long live Social Anarchism!

People have a better quality of life in capitalist countries.