Wait, how does one "earn" a job? Like, after they've already looked for work and have found no available job?

>implying you're any better
>like, at all

Enjoy reaping the benefits of your country's social safety net while yelling at people with legitimate complaints about how youth with training but no job experience are treated in this country

suck my dick faggot

hurrrr a durrr durr durr, babby's first troll, etc.

Occupy is not about entitlement, it is about the future being stolen. It is about the pie being eaten up by the 1%. It is about the 1% drinking up the metaphorical milkshake of the 99%.

If you weren't 12 years old and edgy so deep misanthrope, perhaps you might understand that.

Pay taxes, receive war in Afghanistan.

Seems legit to me guise.

>need a job to pay for an education
>can't get a job without an education

The first chunk of your post sounds about right.

I'm glad we could agree, OP.

>>1378332

Yeah because your Anthrpology degree and the millions of hours you've spent masturbating to Crash Bandicoot games on your PS3 count as job training.

Yeah post it on /r9k/, way to change the world bro

>>1378316
>>1378316

>rolling for initiative
>>>/tg/ is that way

I want to 'earn' a job but they won't let me.. not even a low-age warehouse type deal or a mcjob.

>>1378353
>implying a university degree in an academic area isn't the most job training you can get for most office jobs excluding actual job experience

A 10 slice pizza arrives at your party.

Alan Greenspan comes along and takes 8 slices.

And that's how money works.

>>1378363

Maybe you're unemployable because of laziness or defective genes.

Sometimes I seriously think that males who haven't obtained a job by the time they are 20 should be taken out behind the barn and shot like a lame horse.

If people really feel this way then the 99% need to stop interacting with this 1% they feel are stealing from them. I mean, if they are taking advantage why not just owst them. that is how a democracy works right, i mean, it's not like the people are actually tied in chains to the system. If they even represented half of this 99% they bee able to have a revolution in a single day, half the population ripping shit up, yo, and stuff.

I don't understand how people like the OP aren't anarcho-primitivists or something. How can you like society, and then tell the people living in society that they aren't entitled to the things that make society possible? If we don't have an education, then how do we work together to solve problems using critical thinking? How can we trust a democracy to people who had no effort made to make sure they were educated? If people aren't entitled to places to live, then why don't we all just go find some caves to squat in? If we aren't entitled to healthcare, then why does it matter if we advance medical science for the people in society when they can't always have access to it? If people aren't entitled to a job, then why not just live as hunters and gatherers, just skipping the money middleman and working directly for our food?

Why participate in a society through a social contract if you don't gain anything for having entered into the contract, while the other side gets to tax you? It just doesn't make sense.

>>1378399

Just because you aren't entitled to these things doesn't mean you can't earn them through hard work and effort. That is what this country was founded on, not the "if you give a mouse a cookie" mentality that spurns on travesties like Obamacare proposals.

You are not entitled to the wealth of your parents. You have to work for it yourself and earn it yourself.

You are not entitled to protection from violence. Buy your own security.

You are not entitled to the use of infrastructure. Build your own roads or pay whatever toll their owners ask for them.

You are not entitled to living. You have to fight for it, defend it, and earn it.

You are not entitled to a woman. You have to fucking EARN IT. How hard is this to understand?


The world owes you nothing. Quit with this "I AM THE 99 PERCENT, WAAAH WHY CAN'T I GET A JOB" bullshit. You are a spoiled peice of shit who needs to man up and take initiative for himself.

who is the man on the left of the woman's sign in op's pic?

>>1378353
>also implying that i'm not currently in training to become an electrician and going to make shit tons of money

>>1378427
Yeah, but you could earn each and every single one of those things through living as primitives. You could hunt for your own food, build your own shelters without having a government to tell you how to structure it and fine you for building it, you could compete for mates, anything you could earn for yourself in a society, only without taxes and the rest of that society's bullshit. If you are getting taxed and governed, then you should receive something for that contribution. That means education, that means politicians making sure job are always available at any cost, that means making sure everyone has a place to live. If you aren't being given the things society requires you to have to live in it, then you shouldn't have society in the first place, just earn it on your own without one.

Kind of hard to get a job when there are very few.

Also, not entitled to healthcare? I don't exactly think people are entitled to it per say, but it sounds very inhumane to say that anyone who can't afford healthcare should get sick and die.

The state actually owes the people more than you think. At least ethically.

The state is a big corporation, producing workers, etc. If you raise people under circumstances where they can't achieve a standard of living, it should be considered slavery.

Now don't confuse this thesis with those who 'occupy', I just wanted to make the pint clear that the government actually owes the people.

...And once you reach the top you can exploit the whole system with you and your family living like kings for generations...

It's too bad your logic has some huge flaws in it and you seem to miss the point. The occupy movement is not about demanding more table scraps

>You are not entitled to an education. You have to work for it, pay for it, and earn it.
>You are not entitled to healthcare. You have to work for it, pay for it and earn it.

Yes I am. It's in my country's constitution, glad I live in an evolved country, where we don't leave our weaker elements on the side of the road

But I should be entitled to healthcare, education and a place to live, it's in the best interest of the people and the state. THe rest of the world understands this already why don't you? I agree with earning a living and a job though

Not my fault employers won't hire me. I'm willing and ready to work.

>Rich people continuously lobby for lower taxes on themselves
>The government cuts back on the social safety net in a struggle to balance the books
>If someone points this out you scream "ENTITLEMENT CULTURE!"
You know if you didn't spend your life being spoonfed propaganda in a plutocracy you'd realize other countries can provide for their citizens well and still have money left over.
By the way if you still think there's just as many jobs in America after almost all our manufacturing has been outsourced or computerized then you might be dumber than I can imagine. Keep it to /pol/.

>mfw 4chan is filled with liberal trolls

Did I take a Rip Van Winkle nap and wake up to hordes of pseudo-intellectual redditors invading this site?

By OP's logic we shouldn't have anything like public roads, water systems or open space because we should EARN it.
Do I smell a troll or someone Americanly stupid?

Such a shame that our world really is like that.

>>1378598
>people don't agree with you
>spam buzzwords

nope, /r9k/'s just the same as it's ever been. maybe you need to calm down

>>1378549
In a logical country, you'd kill off the weaker elements as they're a drain on the limited resources, and a burden to evolution.

You are entitled to an education.
You are not entitled to a place to live.
You are entitled to healthcare.
You are not entitled to a living.
You are not entitled to a job.

Healthcare is a right. You have a right to live, and in order to live, you need to be taken care of if you get deathly ill.
You are entitled to an education, because without an education you won't know how to do shit, and you can't work for it, pay for it, or earn it unless you wan't to do that at a McDonalds.
This isn't the jungle, we are human beings. My dad knew what it was like to be poor, and even though he is rich now, he still supports the 99% and socializing alot of things. Same with my mom.
People like you are spoiled rich kids who think that everyone has to help themselves and themselves only. That's NOT how anything works, most species in the jungle work by the animals helping the others in the pack, not just keeping the food to themselves.
Why can't you be more like an ant?

>>1378605
>state-sponsored eugenics
>logical

this is what retards actually believe

>>1378605
By that logic Stephen Hawking should have been killed as a child.

>>1378316

>tfw I disagree with OP on a fundamental level

>>1378625

You do know that Stephen Hawking was an able bodied, highly intelligent child, right? He didn't get Derp Derpigg's disease until he was older.

>>1378605
>evolution
>good

I should be entitled to a free car

>>1378663

Evolution is a fucking myth, you idiot.

>>1378641
'tfw' will always sound like "their faces when" to me.
I have "that feel when" blocked; would you mind typing the whole string?

>>1378674
you gotta make your trolls less obvious

Except, nearly no one who has all of those things "manned up". At one point, all of us were infants entirely unable to take care of ourselves.

We received food and then we received other things.

An education, private, public, or none.
A place to live, nice, okay, or collapsing.
A kind of healthcare, either world class, public, or none.
A network, either well connected parents, poorly connected parents, or negatively connected parents.

If you're going to preach a meritocracy, you should realize the huge hypocrisy.

A real meritocracy is not possible in a capitalist political system in which inheritance and social influence skew the playing field. When you can buy your kids an extremely expensive education, furnish them with a study and a full library, give them full medical care (and even some $2,000 HGH therapy to boost their height, done frequently), and then get them into Yale, Harvard, Stanford, or a Fortune 100 company just by calling a person in your network--

You can't pretend that any of those kids earned it. No one earns anything. They are set up in situations.

You can talk about the "rags to riches" stories. I can talk about other people winning the lotto.

Just because someone wins the lotto does not mean the lotto is a system that successfully creates wealth for individuals.
Just because one person went "rags to riches" does not mean that a capitalist system promotes the success of better and smarter people.

>>1378316
>>1378674

>12-year-old-reads-article-about-Ron-Paul-in-the-church-bulletin-core

>>1378460
Florida robot reporting. It is the governor, Rick Scott.

>>1378690

Just forget it man, you can't argue politics on 4chan. Everyone is some super manly, hard working, libertarian who has literally never been handed anything in their life. If you so much as mention that it might be a good idea to give other people any kind of support without some ridiculous catch like making them battle to the death in an arena first they'll jump all over you like you're Lenin reincarnated.

>You are not entitled to healthcare. You have to work for it, pay for it and earn it.

Disagree. Healthcare should be a duty of care and compulsory for all first-world citizens.

Unless America isn't a first-world country anymore.[spoilers]Who am I kidding? It's not.[/spoilers]

>>You are not entitled to an education. You have to work for it, pay for it, and earn it.

OP is either a troll or has never been to college.

>>You are not entitled to a place to live. You have to work for it, pay for it and earn it.

No shit.

>>You are not entitled to healthcare. You have to work for it, pay for it and earn it.

Yep.

>>You are not entitled to a living. You have to work for it, pay for it, and earn it.

Yep.

>>You are not entitled to a job. You have to fucking EARN IT. How hard is this to understand?

Mhm.

>>The world owes you nothing. Quit with this "I AM THE 99 PERCENT, WAAAH WHY CAN'T I GET A JOB" bullshit. You are a spoiled peice of shit who needs to man up and take initiative for himself.

I saw this "I am 99%" picture where this fat girl apparently lost her goldfish because she couldn't afford to pay for heating to keep him freezing to death rofl.

goddamn. get back to /pol/

>not entitled to a place to live
>not entitled to healthcare
>not entitled to a living

What happened to the inalienable right to life?

>education is a right in most European countries

>people are more equal in European countries than in America, both socially and economically

>Europeans have a right to a place to live

>Europeans have a right to health care. No one can get bankrupt from getting cancer. Everyone who suffers unexpected disease is guaranteed to be cared for.

>Europeans have a right to get monetary support for shelter, food and a modicum of life quality

>Europeans are enitled to a job and to job finding counsel

>American makes this thread
>Is surprised when rest of the world thinks they are scum

>>1378785

why should we suffer because you cant take care of yourself?

>>1378857

>didn't build his own house
>doesn't treat his own illnesses
>doesn't grow or kill his own food

>"Why do you depend on society? I don't!"

GOD DAMN

WHAT IS WITH ALL YOU FOOLS.
You can have all the rights in the world, as long as they dont infringe on mine. Making me pay extra, to finance your life, is infringing.
The ONLY thing i would ever pay to be universal, is education. I would not mind paying higher taxes, so education would be universal (as long as my children can get that education as well).

>>1378857
Hang on, because I'm about to take you on a right.

The government is required to protect the rights of its citizens.
In exchange, the citizens are required to fund the government, so it can protect the rights of its citizens.
A healthy life is a right.

Pick each other up when we fall. Keep the herd together.

>>1378892
>YOU CAN'T INFRINGE ON MY RIGHTS EXCEPT THIS ONE THING I PARTICULARLY LIKE BECAUSE IT BENEFITS MY CHILDREN

Do you even hear yourself?

>>1378892
>You can have all the rights in the world, as long as they dont infringe on mine
>I would not mind paying higher taxes, so education would be universal

Except you can't expect other to pay higher taxes, thereby making anything you contribute pointless. You could donate your money for education, but a tax would mean that others who do not want to pay have to give away their money, too.

Either you have to oppose taxes altogether, or you have to accept that you can demand of people to afford the living of those who are not able.

>>1378690

It is easier for the rich to keep their gains (notice i say gains, because they have earned that money at some point), but that doesnt mean its harder for a random person to earn their own wealth. You can still get into an ivy league school, you just have to work hard. 99.99% of people on 4chan HAVE NOT put in the effort to even try and get that elite education. If you tried, and didnt get in, then i can understand. But if you havent even tried? you arent losing shit, so dont complain. this free market capitalism is the closest we are going to get to a meritocracy.

the main point is, just because you were not a success, dont blame the successful. they clawed their way up there, far more than you have ever done (not speaking to you specifically, just the people complaining)

>>1378955
>this free market capitalism is the closest we are going to get to a meritocracy

A meritocracy where the rich can afford the best schools and tutors while the poor are stuck with crappy public schools that their neighborhoods can't even properly fund. Right.

The weird thing is, even conservatives who oppose public health care seem to consider health care a right the way they talk about it.
They never contradict the notion that everyone should have availabtily to medical treatment, but they suppose that a free market benefits the advancement and quality of treatment -- which is of course wrong if you only look at the numbers and think for a second.

>>1378338
>Occupy is not about entitlement, it is about the future being stolen.
Occupy is a retarded movement of people who think college is somehow a good idea and that other people should pay for it for them.

If one seventeen year old decides to get a job and another decides to go to college, why should the one actually working for a living pay for the shitty choice of the other?

Seriusoly what's murricas problem with public healthcare and education?

>>1378936
>>1378941

I understand what you are saying, and you are completely correct. I said "I" wouldnt mind, and if i ever do get to the point where i can afford to start a scholarship foundation (or something similar), will do it. Knowledge is the great equalizer, not anything else the government can provide. I dont care much for "equalizing", but i do have a place in my heart for education. If you give people the education, they can accomplish almost anything. Its like the teach a man to fish, instead of just giving him a fish for his meal that day. Just because i believe in a more libertarian approach, doesnt mean i dont care about the suffering out there.

>>1378955
>Rich people
>Do any work at all
>Not profiting off the labor of others

>>1378394

>defective genes means you can't work

You should've at least stuck around for 8th grade, bro/

>>1378892
You do understand that the point of the government paying for stuff is because some people don't get lucky with rich parents and that it would protect you too if you needed it, right?

I mean, you haven't earned anything. Your mommy and daddy gave you the education and clothing that got you your first job.
You call having luck "earning"...

ALSO.
The people that get financial aid or stuff like that also earned it through their fathers before them paying taxes and all that. It's pretty much the same thing as your case only that the government works as a intermediary making sure that the work they putted in horrible under payed jobs that make other peoples lives easy comes back to them.

>>1378605
>In a logical country, you'd kill off the weaker elements as they're a drain on the limited resources, and a burden to evolution.

Because the goal of a country is not to protect it's citizens, but its civilization score, and "evolution".

>>1378955
>they clawed their way up there

That's true for maybe 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of the rich, and even for those it's only a minimal factor.

Most of them simply had rich parents, and those got rich by knowing the right people, being merciless to their competitors and just being at the right place at the right moment, which requires luck more than anything. They didn't work harder than their opponents and surely not harder than their employees.

>>1378987
>who think college is somehow a good idea

College graduates get payed better and have higher salary ceilings. If you seriously think a high-school graduate gets as far as someone who studied even a bullshit subject like philosophy, you should get in touch with reality.

>>1378973
>>1379003
You'd think conservatives would fucking love Obama's health care plan And not just because it was their idea to begin with because it forces people who don't pay for the health care they receive anyway to actually buy into the system.

privatized healthcare is absolutely fine for the average person who's been in their field several years and have had time to advance. you're not going to be able to get a job straight out of uni that'd let you pay for treatment of, for example, a stage IV melanoma which on average costs $159,808 to remove and treat (source: http://dermatology-s10.cdlib.org/1511/originals/melanoma_costs/alexandrescu.html). no-one going to give that loan to someone who, recently out of uni, is full of uni debt and isn't getting paid a whole lot yet. private healthcare is a massive fuck you to anyone who isn't living above upper-middle class; same with privatised education. the other 3, i 100% concede. but healthcare is fucking expensive for serious problems. and what should we put taxes towards that's more important than letting people live, learn and grow as people.

cool 19th century beliefs, op

>>1379016
That's right. We should cull the untermenschen and only let the pure strong Aryan blood live on.

>>1378968

funding is one of the smallest issues in public education. so what if some areas can afford to give their teachers advanced projectors and whatnot? the big deal here is that in the "poor" geodemographic locations, people dont understand how important education is, and what it can do for you. rampant crime and ignorance isnt my fault, its the fault of people that live there. they have the opportunity to get out and do something with their lives, and there are good people and teachers trying to help these kids every day. but theres only so much i can do for ignorant parents who dont give a damn about their kdis

>>1379018

LOL

Implying I just got lucky and got accepted into med school.

>studied countless hours
>sacrificed lots of social opportunities
>will be making a minimum of $120K yearly, ideally $400K+ after getting into a fellowship etc.

That puts me in the top 1% fag.

1% ftw? ftw.

>>1379081
Please, as if you worked a tenth as hard as an immigrant slaving away in fields picking corn for a chance at a sub-minimum wage salary.

And who funded your college and med school forays, anyway?

>>1379073
>rampant crime and ignorance isnt my fault, its the fault of people that live there. they have the opportunity to get out and do something with their lives

That it's only the people living in the area should be a big hint that it's not the people, but socio-economic, or even fucking geographic factors, not some intrinsic human failure.

>>1379073
I never quite understood this.
You have really smart people that didn't learn with cool gadgets. Sometimes funding gets in the way with, you know, paying salaries; but when it comes to having notebooks for each students or cool projectors... you don't need that to learn.

Fuck the 99% whining bitches. Your fault you went with a shitty major.

>hurr liberal arts, philosophy, ART.

>>1379114
The problem is salaries. Specifically, low student:teacher ratios give you a better chance of success, but poorer schools can't afford as many teachers.

>>1379038
College grads make, what, 50k a year on average right out of college? And that's IF they have the right job experience/marketable skills to actually get a job.

When I'm done my apprenticeship, I'm gonna be making six figures easily without having pissed away my past, present, and future money on a useless education. In 7 years, the majority of current tradespeople where I live will have retired, meaning that I will have almost unlimited job security even without a union.

College is stupid, and although I respect the people who pay for it, I can't help but think that if these people had stopped to think about what they were doing instead of blindly going where society/their parents told them to go they'd be better off

Punch a cop and get life in prison.

>all your problems solved, free from choice and free thinking
>you might be someones bitch but at least zero responsibility

>>1378330
There are plenty of Mcjobs out there. If they were really desperate for work, why don't they take them?

>>1379121
While it's true that most of the guys talking about the 99% are those fucking idiots (this coming from someone who is in an artschool and knows that I have to work my ass off or just accept that I will slowly die of hunger); the concept is that a big part of that is people who couldn't afford a higher education and/or lost their jobs because a company wanted to earn more money or had stupid people as CEOs...

>>1379152
>There are plenty of Mcjobs out there

That's why we have 10% unemployment, right? Because there are all these jobs just waiting for someone to ask to work?

>>1379018

OH YEAH, REALLY? Tell that to all the immigrants that came to this country, and worked their way to the top. Poor as fuck indians/asians come here, work their asses off, and their kids become doctors/lawyers/engineers/bankers/etc. My parents both make over 100k a year, and i barely see a single cent of it. Granted i didnt have to work to pay the necessities when i was younger, but i worked for everything else. I didnt get any of the shit other kids got. i saw poor as fuck kids with their, play stations, gameboys, xboxes, and then complain about how rich people are rich. i pay for insurance and everything for my car, that im "renting" from my parents. I see people work hard as fuck every day in classes, and they WILL end up making more than the scum that barely do any work, and dont even study.

>>1379081
There can always only be a very select and tiny few of people admitted to med school, meaning that a vast majority of those who dream to be doctors are doomed not to get in.
This means that not all people can get rich, no matter how hard they try, meaning that your success is ultimately not dependant on your determination alone and that fate gave you a lucky hand.

>Be America
>Be rapidly falling behind countries like China in science and technology
>Obviously the solution is to make education a privilege available only to the rich

If America knew what was good for it, college education would be free to anyone who wanted it. But lol capitalism.

>>1379152
No, there aren't. And if you have a student loan to pay or grown up stuff like a house and bills and all that those are worth it since you'll be losing money anyways.
You sound like someone who haven't ever tried to get a job after age 16.

>>1379165
That's right, places are hiring all over the place. Just the 99%ers think they're too good for the low paying jobs. Money is money, they obviously refuse to believe that.

>>1378987
Fun fact: the happiest country on Earth, Denmark, has free secondary education. Turns out that being able to pursue a college degree without a debt looming over your head is actually a good thing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Denmark
Next time you or any other defender of our plutocracy want to say that healthcare and education simply can't be given freely, look at Denmark.

>>1379193
aren't worth it.

Sorry for the mistake.

>>1379193
Don't take out student loans then. Damn. Its called "scholarships" you actually have to make good grades for them.

>>1379201
>That's right, places are hiring all over the place.

This is true. What's also true is that for every position, employers receive so many applications that they can afford to demand job experience for entry-level positions. If you can't see why that's retarded, then I can't help you.

>>1379193

>grown up stuff
>underaged detected

>>1379201
>places are hiring all over the place

Wrong, once again.
Also, at a certain point, a job becomes worthless. If you're stuck in a dead end Mcjob that can't pay for rent, and can't pay for college so that you can move up life, a job doesn't help you.

>>1379220
Not everyone gets a full scholarship.

But I shouldn't talk a lot about that since I'm from one of those crazy countries that don't charge you a ridiculous amount to learn. Let's stick to paying for a home and bills and thinking about the people that lost their jobs.

>>1379220
>Its called "scholarships"

And they are hard to get and only reserved for a select elite. It's not a solution, it simply creates another category of losers and winners. America hates losers without realizing that not everyone can be a winner.

>>1379101

because that anon's parents/grandparents/and so on worked hard as fuck so their kids could focus on education, and not have to do the hard labor that they had to do. are you retarded? those immigrants are working hard, so their kids dont have to.

i bet the "work" you put in during school as fucking shit compared to this anon. you dont realize that MOST educated fags put in work to get their degrees. You can talk about the good ol boys club of the ivy leagues, but you forget about the hundreds and hundreds of other universities out there, where people do actual work. not even mentioning community colleges and trade schools

>>1379220
Scholarships are given to the top few, meaning that, even if everybody had excellent grades, the same top percentage would get scholarships. They are not a solution.

>>1379253
>America hates losers without realizing that not everyone can be a winner

Replace America with Western women and you have /r9k/'s problem in one sentence.

>>1379184

>fate gave you a lucky hand

IM SORRY THOSE PEOPLE WHO GOT IN HAD BETTER GRADES THAN THE PEOPLE WHO DIDNT

are you retarded? they earned that shit

Actually the government is supposed to serve the general population. That's why it's called "Public Service".

Used to be when it first started no one wanted the jobs because they didn't want to serve and it was too much responsibility, and if someone else was more qualified they would step down and let that man lead. The tradition has stayed today in that if the person running for president isn't going to win he step downs, or concedes, before the night is over but it doesn't mean today what it did then. Many people begrudged being elected, they'd rather stayed on their family plantation getting rich and overseeing everything.

Only recently has public service gone from a service for the people as a people funded career, hence the term career politician, who is a politician that isn't in the business of serving his people but saying what they want to hear to be reelected as much as possible for the financial and other benefits.

Sure there shouldn't be nothing but handouts, but to say its our responsibility to serve our government and expect nothing in return is straight out wrong and a sign that govt today doesn't mean what it did then. It really leaves a bad taste in my mouth when politicians shit on welfare when they're essentially living on welfare and not getting anything done or serving the people and instead serving their corporate and private interests.

>>1379257
Anon's grandparents worked hard, but anon's grandparents did not get rich. Anon did not work hard (at least, as hard as an immigrant worker working for less than minimum wage), but he is rich. Yet you call that a meritocracy?

>>1379279
>they earned that shit

Read:

>>1379260
>>1379253

Even if 100 people put the same determination and effort into getting into med school, only 3 will be admitted based on being born with slightly better skills or being in a slightly better disposition when their tastes were taken.

I think an education should be a right. By creating a division that requires money to obtain skills to obtain money, we create an infinite poverty cycle that can only grow.
All else should be earned.

But hey that's just my two cents.

>>1379242
>a job doesn't help you

Fine, be stuck. Its what you deserve for living in the moment and not planning ahead.

In case some of you are a little slow, may I remind you:
1. Every other first-world nation has free healthcare
2. It costs less for you to pay taxes towards that than any private plan here
3. Other countries with more public services do not pay a crippling amount of taxes otherwise nobody would live there, much less the rich
4. Denmark is the happiest country on earth, and there Secondary education is free. FREE! And they're a stable nation. If people in the USA weren't so conditioned to being nickel-and-dimed we wouldn't have to resort to "a college degree ain't all that" just to cope with the exorbitant costs of privately-funded education.
5. Denmark has a huge amount of services for the common folk paid with taxes, and they can do this because they don't spend $455 billion a year blowing up Arabs and buying drones to spy on citizens.

>>1379319
ya but glen beck said they hate our freedoms

>>1379283

who said anything about meritocracy? theres no such thing as perfect meritocracy, unless you took all the babies that were born and let them be raised by a government organization or some futuristic shit.

Like i said, those immigrants are working so their kids dont have to. One day, their grandkids could be doctors as well. You cant take away the accomplishments of others, just because some people dont have those accomplishments

>>1379342
No, but you can give everyone a chance, like every damn country in Europe does.

>>1379349
And look how europe's doing. Their economies are all on the verge of collapse

The government is in entitled to take care of it's people. Having people die on the street because they can't afford a home or medicine isn't very good.

Also so you catch up:
1. A lack of jobs isn't the fault of the poor, it's the fault of automation, outsourcing and other deliberate tools to squeeze more productivity out of less people.
2. Since the 70's the employers have had a surplus of people willing to work so that's why people haven't had a real wage increase since then (except for the top 5% gee I wonder why)
3.Idiots in this thread, /pol/ and the CIA-controlled media will do anything to dissuade you from what I've said so they can continue to get obscenely wealthy and hopefully return to the days of feudal serfs or robber barons.
4. People are quick to blame the government for wrongdoings while ignoring that corporations are more powerful and have less representation by the common man. This is why I'm a little relieved Ron Paul won't be nominated but everyone else in the major parties are willing to sell us down the river anyway so fuck America it's too stupid to live.

>>1379363
Unlike the huge, strong american economy!

>>1379319
>they don't spend $455 billion a year blowing up Arabs and buying drones to spy on citizens.
That obviously means that they don't understand anything about life.

>>1379314
It's called dead end job for a reason.

Here's how it works in America:

>did you graduate high-school?
no
>fine, here's your McJob!

>did you graduate high-school?
yes
>do you want to go to college?
no
>okay, you have two options: get rich or get a McJob. Oops, we ran out of good positions. Here's your McJob.

>did you graduate high-school?
yes
>do you want to go to college?
yes
>do you want to study business/hard science?
no
>are you in the top 0.1% of your classes?
no
>here's your McJob!

>did you graduate high-school?
yes
>do you want to go to college?
yes
>do you want to study business/hard science?
no
>are you in the top 0.1% of your classes?
yes
>here's your job that pays exactly like a McJob!

>did you graduate high-school?
yes
>do you want to go to college?
yes
>do you want to study business/hard science?
yes
>great! you only have a 5% chance of getting a McJob!

>>1379260

Well if you aren't capable of earning top grades with a full load of classes every semester... maybe you shouldn't be in college? Ever think of that?

>>1379380
>CIA controlled media

That's a funny way of spelling ZOG.

>>1379363
>their economies are all fucked
Greece/Italy? Maybe. Pretty much every other European country's economy looks like a gilded fucking lily compared to the states.

>>1379390
Not everybody can earn a top grade. Do you not know what a top grade is?

>>1379363
Idiots like you keep repeating this myth despite the fact that European countries are the oldest on Earth. Even the Greek thing was overblown. Maybe when you have footage of Germans burning buildings and raiding the parliament I'll believe you but from what I see you're just a brainwashed idiot.

I am entitled to these things. And I have them. And my education and healthcare are paid by my taxes.

Thank God I'm European.

>>1379390
>How well you study means that you'll be good at your chosen field.
Yeah, of course. I still don't get how people who think like that can get in science...

>>1379319

Citizens in those countries pay almost twice as much in taxes (in percentages) as Americans do. I dont think that the scandinavian model sucks, but it wont work in the USA. the reasons being

1. Population difference, hundreds of millions more in the US.
2. Extreme diversity in the US, so many different viewpoints (religion, ethnic background, way of life, etc)
3. America was founded on principles of individual rights. Most scandinavians cant even carry knives on their person, and it doesnt matter to them because they can be so well regulated. There are just too many people in the usa for that type of control to work

4. This is more of a personal opinion, but once you start making everything "standard", society will just keep moving in the communist direction, eventually ending up with something like 1984/Brave New World/Another Dystopian. Thats kind of irrelevant though

>>1379404

Yes, a nice little row of As. Which anyone who is halfway hardworking, competent and capable of following directions can earn.

If you can not do this it is because you are either lazy, stupid or have a learning disability. In which case it would be best for you to leave university and find a job instead.

>>1379260
I live in Canada and businesses give scholarships for fucking anything.
I wrote an essay on a jar of dirt and I got $3000. A literal jar of dirt. I wrote about it.

>>1379363
America's economy is doing badly, too.

And only Greece, Italy, and Spain are really in trouble. The rest are doing okay, and many are even doing well, like the UK, Germany, and the aforementioned Denmark, even though they provide education.

>>1379409
You could also be from some parts of Asia and Latin America. Even parts of Africa.
I mean, when the states are harder to live in than a third world country...

>>1379421
You don't seem to understand how scholarships work. If 100% of students got straight-As, scholarships would still only go to the top n%. If 100% of students get Bs, scholarships would still go to that top n%. Not everybody gets a scholarship.

>>1379420
>America was founded on principles of individual rights

The Netherlands have in many ways more freedoms than the USA, but their economy and education is a lot more similiar to Scandinavia than America.
You are talking out of your ass. Economic freedom can be compared to personal freedom only in very limited ways.

>2012
>still living in America

Why? It's really easy to get internships and jobs in Canada. If you're willing to take the big leap it's not that difficult to get into Australia either, and a lot of wealthy but not wealthy enough to live off the poor are starting to get duel citizenships in England.

>>1379420
>Citizens in those countries pay almost twice as much in taxes (in percentages) as Americans do.

Which would actually mean something if Americans taxed their citizens nearly as much as they needed to. I'm from Canada, and we have a 13% sales tax. It's not so fucking impossible to live with, especially if you agree with how the government spends its money. If you guys had that, you would all be flipping your shit about how the government is trying to rob you.

Your statement would also have merit if the alternative to public services wasn't ridiculously more expensive, even if you made everyone share the cost.

>>1379427
And those three countries got really fucked with the euro deal, don't forget that.
>Oh, your economies can't stand by themselves? Well, we will just give you a shit ton of money and come later to take many times more since we're sure you'll find a way to make it work.
It was pretty obvious that they would end like this...

>>1379421
Not the guy you fighting with, but just having good grades isn't good enough these days. You want to go to a great school. Well you have to have great grades, be part of a couple of clubs, and volunteer you time.

>>1379372
You'd be surprised how many morons (especially on /pol/) aren't upset at this idea, it's probably because they never leave their house, which goes a long way towards explaining the callous hatred for everyone unlike them, pampered and white.

And if they're poor and still support removing any social safety net they're just fucking stupid and shortsighted.

Maybe if you're rich enough to afford your own estate it would make sense to follow the corporate party of the repubocrats, because you might not see the resulting ghetto from behind a 3000 foot yard.

>implying decent grades are all you need

Good luck getting that job you're more than qualified for when Chad who's dad is the director/manager/whatever the fuck it is you're going for gives the job to his son and not you.

Networking and nepotism are how jobs are made now. Join a frat. No seriously do it. At least that way chad can put in a good word with his dad for you and you can work under chad and fix all his problems for him while he takes 2 hour lunch breaks.

>>1379470
Frankly, I think their lack of success is a cultural thing. Life in the Mediterranean is so god tier that it makes us Mediterraneans lazy.

>>1379420
Sorry how do any of those differences matter? Back it up!
If making sure every country on Earth provides the same as Denmark to its citizens is dystopic, I'd hate to see what enforcing the universal declaration of human rights would do! Oh my, maybe nobody would have a need to illegally immigrate or commit acts of terrorism!

>>1379421
A top grade means that you are on top. A mountain only has one peak. It's not rocket surgery. The vast majority of students is BOUND to fail, no matter how hard they try. And get this: if every student got a 4.0 GPA, the grade requirements would be made harder to normalize the average grades!
You can't be this fucking stupid.

>>1379537
So your basically saying only one student per school should go to college?

>>1379421
>Demanding perfection in order to attain what advanced other countries call a right
>Posting on /r9k/
So disingenuous, it hurts.

>>1379038
If someone thinks it's a good idea, they should pay for it themselves.

Nice job nitpicking a side comment in my post and ignoring the actual argument btw.

>>1379499
This. Even at minimum wage jobs it's all about who you know.

Whenever someone quits or (VERY RARELY) puts in 2 weeks notice our manager first asks us if we know anyone that would want the job. Usually someone does and that person gets hired.

Average people who bring their aps in aren't looked at unless we don't have a friend that wants the job or for some reason there are multiple openings. and then it's just about who has the most work experience. So if you don't have any experience you're pretty much fucked provided you aren't bros with someone already there.

>>1379459

im not opposed to paying taxes, if those taxes went to something i thought was useful. that being said, i dont think universal healthcare is useful. i dont want it, and im going to exercise my right to vote against it. im basically just fighting for what I want here

>>1379451

America is a more "risky" way of life if you want to think of it like that. If you have the balls to play, and the brain to win, you can make it big. If not, thats too bad. Socialist governments are more even, you risk less. But you also dont win as much.

Life is like gambling, but instead of luck, the outcome is based on skill. (obviously this isnt supposed to be a perfect analogy)

>>1379621
>that being said, i dont think universal healthcare is useful.

All due respect, sir, but you're fucking retarded.

>>1379621
>Life is like gambling, but instead of luck, the outcome is based on skill.
isthisniggaserious.jpg

>>1379499

Its not as bad as you say, theres still a place for a hardworking individual who has what it takes. But you are correct.

But thats how life has been since the dawn of the human race, think about it. If you can give a job to your friend, over a random person, wouldnt you? If you have crops to be harvested, and you could choose betweens strangers or a family you knew beforehand, who would you pick?

>>1379621
>Life is like gambling, but instead of luck, the outcome is based on skill.

And luck. Lots of luck. Oh, and your skills are also influenced by your genes and your environment, which are not determined by your influence, making them, also, luck.

>>1379621
>Chosing where to live.
>Luck having nothing to do with being born in a family that can pay their shit.

>>1379642
I wish /pol/ had people like you instead of pathetic armchair warriors trying to one-up each other on who can be the most callous, hate-filled idiot alive.

>>1379642

why? i can pay for my healthcare, why should i change the status quo? especially on a subject that has the potential to change the entire way of life in america?

>>1379670
>i can pay for my healthcare

You have a few hundred thousand dollars lying around in case you get cancer and can't continue your work?

>>1379670
Why are you against universal healthcare, but your completely ok with paying for Road and transportation

>>1379670
>i can pay for my healthcare, why should i change the status quo?

You know, it's more of an ethical thing than trying to take advantage of the system in the best possible way. Golden rule, categorical imperative, love thy neighbor, shit like that.

>>1379685
Maybe more, since you may become unable to work ever again...

>>1379670
>I can do X so everybody else must be able to
I love your ignorance.

>>1379667
Well, thanks. But the callous, hate-filled idiots are the reason I don't go on /pol/.

>>1379670
>why should i change the status quo?

Because the status quo is absolute shit for millions upon millions of people and you have common human decency?

Oh, wait.

>>1379664

well youre getting all philosophical and shit, its not luck that lets you be born to family x, as opposed to family y. if you believe in something like our soul is reborn all the time, maybe. but you are who you are, its not luck you were born into your family. its not luck that my family lives in a nice neighborhood, with other educated families. my grandparents were poor as fuck farmers in india, now im just another "brat" to you, because my family can afford to pay for my tuition.

>idea
lets all go live to the jungle, or start over, hit the reset button.

>>1379729
>implying shit wouldn't turn out more or less the same

What you're forgetting is that humans as a whole are predictable.

>>1379713
But YOU didn't work for all that stuff that was already there. While a child from a neglecting home has to try his best by himself in school while trying to protect his brothers from their father's abuse when he gets drunk.
How did you deserve something more than them? What makes you special? Being born in a better family. It was luck for you to be born there.

Also, your dad could have died when you were little leaving you with no financial stability. Would you be here thinking the same if that were the case?

>>1379713
>if you believe in something like our soul is reborn all the time, maybe.

You don't have to make that assumption. Black people never chose to be born black, kids of poor parents never chose to be born to poor parents. Guys never chose to be born as guys. They never had any say in where they were going to be born or to whom.

>its not luck that my family lives in a nice neighborhood

It's luck that your parents decided to live in a good neighborhood and decided to raise you the way you were. You didn't influence any of that at all. Nada. They did. They birhted you. You didn't.

>>1379745
Pfffffft.
We would all die. And you know it.
Ants would rule the world. And they would eventually discuss the merits of government control.

>>1379713
....Wow. I was not aware that people this deluded actually existed.

My face when can't tell if libertrolls or conservitards

>>1379766
>Would you be here thinking the same if that were the case?

Only if he were successful. That's the American mantra: if I win, it's my achievement; if I suck, it's their fault.

For rich people, psychology, neurological disorders and poverty might as well be fairybook magic. They don't think they have any outcome on a person's life at all. They think all you need is to be as hard-working at them.

>>1379811
Close minded /pol/tards and people from outside the US.

>>1379811
Probably both.

pre-emptiveblox

>>1379685

no i dont. getting cancer is just a mix of bad health and bad luck. i cant account for everything. if it happens, it happens.

>>1379694
because that type of infrastructure makes my life easier? it benefits everyone equally. healthcare on the other hand, makes me pay more (no matter how incremental that amount is). universal healthcare isnt just some magic thing, where everybody benefits. it would require an enormous change in american politics/values, and would send us in a direction i dont want. it doesnt come by itself, it comes with things like more welfare, etc.

>>1379697
you know what, the golden rule is exactly what i live by. 100%. but you have to think about the flip side. why should i force someone to pay up for me? i donate to charities, etc. but thats my prerogative, i cant make someone else do it.

>>1379704

I am better off than you are. Why should i apologize for it? If i'm smarter than you, and reap the benefits, what do i have to be sorry for. When i was in high school, people would make fun of me for good grades, for working hard, etc. But you know what? I did something they couldnt, and they were just mad about it.

>>1379706

I feel like most of you guys are getting me wrong. I dont mind paying higher taxes, to see people happier. I have a decent enough job, and am finishing school. But just because i dont mind, doesnt mean other people dont mind. Its not my right to tell person A to pay up for person B. Im simply just thinking about individual rights here. I live my life for me, not you.

>>1379811
Welcome to the 4chan. You have two choices. The Red pill or the Blue pill.

You take the Blue pill and everyone is just trolling and having fun with each other.

You take the Red pill you find that nobody is trolling, they legitimately believe everything they say.

>>1379842
That's a generalization, as you know nothing about me and you're just getting defensive now. Being smart doesn't equal being born into a well-financed family.

>>1379829
Didn't work in Russia, won't work in the US. All the common population needs to do is embrace non-capitalist economics, solidarity, education and stop taking shit from their rich overlords. Reform economic politics to be more like Germany or Scandinavia.

>All those things require job
>Job requires education
>I am not entitled to an education, I have to earn it

Troll harder.

>You are not entitled to an education.

Says the man who attended a state-funded public school.

>>1379842
>if it happens, it happens.

And if everyone had public health-care that wouldn't mean that they need to leave their mourning family with a gazillion dollars of debt. Do you want to leave your mourning family with a gazillion dollars of debt just because you had bad luck? If you don't, support public health care. Really, it's not something to shrug about and say "welp, can't do nothing about it." It's a problem with a solution.

Republicans that advocate a "meritocracy" seem to think that everyone is born with a leather tunic and short sword in their inventory.

>Am I rich
"Yes"
>People should take care of their own problems because I can. No one deserves a helping hand unless I can write it off on my tax returns. And even then only if it's endorsed through my religion.

>Am I poor?
"Yeah..."
>I should be given everything the rich people have. Foodstamps should cover sodas and candy and chips and not the bare minimum to survive. I deserve health care equal to the rich and not the bare minimum free clinics that get me stable before kicking me out. I should be given everything.

Every side has its faults.
We should be giving free education and give people the training and skills needed to get on their own feet and support them selves. Workforce and jobcorps programs are where we should be putting most of our welfare at training the poor on how to sustain their selves. Healthcare isn't that much of an issue since most major employers, including fast food and retail, offer health benefits for people that work full time and have worked there for at least a year, some even give benefits around 6 months. The only real difference is when they get cancer and can't work so the lose employee insurance. But fuck you got bad genes. That's life. Just die nice and quietly and make room for the next generation and hope they cure or at least engineer cancer out of our genes by your childs time.

>americans don't want to educate their youths

We'll see how that plan works.

>>1379795
>>1379766

God damn it, there isnt some magical world where everyone is born equal. But think of it this way, when you have kids, you want them to have an amazing life. So you will raise them as well as you can. Youll work hard, so they can focus on things like getting an amazing education and being successful (just an example). You may have a problem with the fact that i was born into a decent family and didnt earn my own room, but do you really have a problem with my parents for working so hard? Are you gonna get angry at them, and take away their hard work just because they raised their kid to a better life than a person in the ghetto? You dont have the right to take away the work anyone else puts in.

If you want, go do something for the kids in the ghetto, but you cant force another person to. Its my right to ignore the plight of others.

That being said, this doesnt mean i will ignore the plight of others, like i said, i do a decent amount for other people. i even do volunteer work every once in a while, for local groups

>>1379842
>Its not my right to tell person A to pay up for person B

But you say that you will democratically OPPOSE to public health care. That means you don't care if the majority agrees to paying money for it, you don't want them to because you assume they don't. That doesn't make sense, bud.

>>1379902
Do you know how fucking common cancer is?

>>1379919
Our point is that you didn't do shit to earn anything, while other people at your age have done way more and got fucked because they had bad luck.
Not many nations are a-ok with life lottery. But I guess that it's hard to understand for someone that's lucky. Because that's all you are, lucky.

Wow, I just realized something.

/r9k/ has a much more diverse range of political viewpoint than does /pol/. This very same thread would have probably been bogged down by Ron Paul circlejerking and Stormfront faggotry.

want to go to college
>rich
pay your way in. You graduate with no debt
>poor
get student loans graduate with debt.

I don't see the problem.

>>1379967
And you can't talk about vidjas in /v/.
More news at 6.

>>1379863
Was never attempted in Russia. This system you love so much has existed for millenniums and people have been fine with it.

>>1379939
second to heart disease and third to auto accidents including drunken and non drunken related. At least in the US.

But cancer = bad genes = should die anyways.

I know it's not very sentimental or compassionate and shows a lack of empathy but we have enough people to sustains ourselves anyways. I would be ok with at least giving them a shit ton of vicodin to make it easier on their death though, if that helps.

>>1379967

The very same thread (or one similar) is actually on /pol/ right now, fyi.

>>1379981
Interest rates are so high you can't pay them off in installments. You're literally stuck with debt your whole life.

>>1379899

>Republicans that advocate a "meritocracy" seem to think that everyone is born with a leather tunic and short sword in their inventory.

MUHHHHHHH

>>1379859

Exactly my point, being smart is more or less earned. People study/work, and earn their knowledge/skills

And im not being defensive, nor am i going on the attack, im just stating my views.

>>1379897
I wont leave my family with that, but like i said, its not my problem if someone else is in that situation.

The major problem with that, is WHY AM I PAYING FOR SOMEONE ELSE. You cant force someone to give up what they earned for someone else. TONS of the rich actually do donate to charity (inb4 write of taxes, they still lose money, and even if its for their own image, it still happens). If they want to, let them. But you cant make them.
I do agree with you, that people need a helping hand. But you still cant make others help.

>>1379992 But cancer = bad genes = should die anyways.

That's not how cancer works.

Thanks for shitting up the thread with your worthless opinion, though! You'd change your mind pretty quick if you had cancer.

>>1380002
If you get a decent job you can.

>>1379992
It's not bad genes.
It's bad food, bad air, bad living.
And I would prefer to let people live with really common bad genes and just kill instead the NEETs that make this board go so fast. That would be far more logical.

>>1379919
>You may have a problem with the fact that i was born into a decent family and didnt earn my own room, but do you really have a problem with my parents for working so hard?

This isn't anything personal as you try to make it out to be, but you are just being dumb-fucking unrealistic.

>God damn it, there isnt some magical world where everyone is born equal.

Exactly what I said you stupid fucker. Some people get born a shit hand, and some get born with a good hand. You were born to good parents with above average intelligence. You have a good hand.

>Are you gonna get angry at them, and take away their hard work just because they raised their kid to a better life than a person in the ghetto?

No, but I am saying that they got lucky. Because they did. They got lucky skills and got lucky by not dying a horrible cancerous death. That's luck, not hard work.

>you cant force another person to

Then you should expose all forms of taxes and government, including police and education. Someone should only have to pay for these if they specifically want to. If you disagree with that, then you have to admit that you can ethically demand of someone to support others. Then you have to consider that one can be demanded to afford for the lack of food, money, education, infrastructure and health care because you would want someone to afford for these same things if you were in their position, which is not unimaginable if their unfulfilled needs are due to socioeconomic factors.

>>1380017
And you have the chance to study higher education because you were born into a family with money. If you work for something, sure, that's understandable, but if you're bragging about being better off than someone, which is what you are essentially doing, then you should probably stop acting childish.

>ITT: edgy teenagers think objectivism is a good basis for ethics

>>1380020
well if I got cancer and you gave me a shit ton of vicodin to make my death easy I'd be cool with going under a shady tree and die than force people to pay for my prolonged death on the off chance that it can be treated with radiation.

Maybe I'd be singing a different song if you lived a fulfilling life but I'm on /r9k/ debating politics, so obviously I have nothing of value to offer the world anyways. So nah, if I got cancer I wont change my mind.

Liberal logic:
>you are entitled free healthcare, college education, food, etc
>you are not entitled to sex or companionship

Something to note: Charity tends to suck ass.

They don't work together with other charities and tend to focus on objectives decided by popularity and not utility. Not to mention shit like sending money to african children and all of it being taken by militias to buy weapons.
Taxes are way better than charities, since they are focused and cover most items with a decent amount of clarity.

>>1379924

It makes sense, because im opposed to majority rule. Which is what voting is. Lets say universal healthcare is voted in by congress and the american people. By a 70% margin. What about the people that voted against it? Im against making them pay (and against them benefitting from it). Take gay-marriage for example. Its illegal in texas, because the majority oppose it. My opinion is that if you oppose it, then dont do it. Its that simple. If you dont want an abortion, dont do it. But the people who do want that, should be allowed to do it. People should be allowed to do whatever the fuck they want, as long as it doesnt impact someone else. Pot should be legal IMO, but driving while high should not, because that puts others in danger

>>1380060
>>you are not entitled to sex or companionship

i never heard that. i thought the libs wanted gay marriage

>>1380056
>implying ethical values exist
>implying I believe in objectivism
>implying survival of the fittest is for edgy teenagers, and not a scientific fact

>>1380068

It really depends on what charity. I dont donate to shit in africa, cause thats nowhere close to him. But i will help an educational foundation out, or even something like a recreational sports league.

>>1380060
>You are entitled to a fair chance against people who were born in a better family.
>You aren't entitled to be happy by making someone else miserable.

Yeah, that sounds pretty logical. You also have prostitutes that work under the market rule, so I don't see your problem. If you want to buy sex with your parents money then do it.

>>1380088
>implying ethical values exist

Oh boy here we go.

You can have ethical values based on logic alone, you know? They don't need to be oriented by a religion of sorts if that is what you think. There are a bunch of atheistic and secular ethicists who try to explain ethical rules and justify them.

>>1380057

So because you wouldn't change your mind, you'd make the same decision for everybody else in the world. How thoughtful.

You're right. You really do have nothing of value to offer.

>>1380105
I wasn't arguing. I was just saying that most of them don't work and are little more than a scam. Not all of them, of course, just most of them (the bigger ones mostly)

>>1380087
No, liberals believe that sex is not a right, yet they believe in sexual freedom. Which means that some people can have wild sex with impunity, while others are doomed to remain celibate. It would not be so bad if they applied this logic to everything else, such as with economic issues (eg believing in absolute economic freedom, but also be against welfare)

>>1380135
Sex isn't a right. What the fuck are you talking about? You're an american, you have your rights well listed in some funding fathers shit, don't you?

>>1380134

yeah i know, just sayin
we need more charity watchdogs :3

>>1378353
>>Implying there aren't a shit ton of unemployed people with Law degrees right now

>>1380162
THAT FUCKING MOUTH!

YOU'RE THAT FUCKING CHRISTFAG WHATEVER NAMEFAG!! FUCKING DIE!!

>>1380088
>implying survival of the fittest is for edgy teenagers, and not a scientific fact

That's a pretty grave misconception of what the theory of evolution actually means. Natural selection is merely a mechanism that ensures that some traits disappear and other increase in frequence. There are no ethics attached and it shouldn't be brought into connection with philosophy or politics. Darwin himself opposed the idea of basing a political or philosophical ideology aorund his findings.

>>1380173

................................................
ive never tripped in my life, and im completely atheist

>>1380176
Actually trying to define morality with the law of natural selection works even then badly when it's an appeal to nature, selection only means that some traits are favored, and since humans have turned out to be very efficient at selecting traits (see dog breeding), we can just decide to sterilise all non-albinos over the height of 6 feet and thereby favor a race of white-skinned midgets.

>>1380135
>believing in absolute economic freedom

Economy is juggling around with imaginary numbers that we assign arbitrary values to. It's fundamentally different from personal freedom.

>>1380032

your last, long remark is EXACTLY how i feel about government. FUCKING EXACTLY. you may think im just a ron paul fag, but thats how i feel

Theres always gonna be bad luck in the world, but theres no such thing as good luck, just whats earned.
Sure they didnt die of cancer, but everything good in their lives they earned. I really dont see the point of saying they have good luck because they didnt die of cancer. Shit happens man, you have to make do with what you got, not whine and complain about it

>>1380128
>You can have ethical values based on logic alone
reason is an illusion. It is simply emotions and assumptions that you have taken for granted.

>They don't need to be oriented by a religion of sorts if that is what you think.
Rejecting theism but not value judgements is pointless. This universe is mindless, there is no meaning, no purpose. It was created out of nothing and it will return to nothing (inb4 big bang was not nothing).

>There are a bunch of atheistic and secular ethicists who try to explain ethical rules and justify them.
And their ethical systems are all flawed. They are trying to maintain slave morality without religious justification. Why serve others when you can serve yourself?

Just as Christianity is Platonism for the masses, secular humanism is atheism for the masses.

>>1380240
not that guy, but its intrinsically all about personal freedom. those arbitrary numbers, are exactly that, arbitrary. Each individual on this earth has their own number for that product/service, based on their personal beliefs

>>1380260
brah, nice way to put things

>>1380253
I'll whine and complain all I fucking want if some asshole, douchebag guy who got fucking lucky by being born better off than me decides to consider it "hard work," and rub it in my fucking face when I'm having trouble getting by day to fucking day. Having trouble working my fucking god damned ass off to even find a fucking job so I can AFFORD to go to fucking college so I can AFFORD to get a job to AFFORD to pay off my fucking debt that lets me get that better job.

Fuck you, prick. You wouldn't last a fucking day in my shoes.

>>1380154
>>1380240
Welfare is no more a right that sex. If being denied healthcare is oppression, then so is being denied sex

>>1380253
>Theres always gonna be bad luck in the world
>but theres no such thing as good luck

>the negation of X exists
>X does not exist

You would absolutely fail a logics class.

>>1380302
I don't want sex. I want to fucking survive in my fucking country.

>>1380260
>reason is an illusion

Then you'd have to say that there are no true statements or that the truth of every statement is never discernible.

If you disagree with both of the two, you have to admit the existance of reason.

>>1380253
>everything good in their lives they earned.

This has been refuted at least 50 times in this single thread. Drop it already.

I don't understand the protests. They won't accomplish anything. They're just wasting their time. Protesting the corporations wont change anything and without corporate interest policies limiting their influence there will be no foreseeable change. And I don't see politicians putting those laws and regulations into effect since lobbyist money means more to them than your lame letters and protests.

And you can't revolt or rise up in a developed country. Especially one that builds its law enforcement and military on conservative patriotic types without higher education. It just doesn't work.

At best you can start a run on the banks and help speed up an economic collapse and hope that it resets everything, but after the depression they put in safeguards to keep that from happening. So I guess the point is get out of America if you can't live in a country were the haves are exploiting the have-nots.

>>1380343
You are not entitled to survive. You are not entitled to anything. Humans are not equal and they don't have rights

>>1380331

i actually realized that when i was typing it, but i just wanted to get my general point across. sorry lol

>>1380295

Well man, you can just suck my dick, ill give you a few bucks. Maybe one day, you can prove youre better than me.

>>1380302
>If being denied healthcare is oppression, then so is being denied sex

oh GOD this fucking BOARD

>>1380367
> Then you'd have to say that there are no true statements or that the truth of every statement is never discernible.
Which is precisely what I am arguing. It is not necessary to be reasonable or logical. What is necessary is to survive and reproduce

>>1380422
I would rather die horribly, than live a life forever alone.

Life is overrated, sex is not

>>1378330

Get your NCRC certificate. Go into the local unemployment office, pay to take the test, and when you finish, you will be placed into a pool of job seekers. This pool is much smaller than what you would be up against if you were just to do a random application for best After this, you should start getting emails about OJT jobs, or On the Job Training positions. Your state should have something like Imatchskills.com or something like that. Fill out your profile. The more shit you put on there, the better. The same should be done with your resume. When you make your resume, put EVERYTHING on it. Every hard and soft skill you even think you have. All your experience, even if it's something small you only did for a day.Think about everything you've done your entire life. If you've ever mowed somebody's lawn and moved the grass clippings, that's heaving lifting experience with an awkwardly shaped object and proper disposal of waste/cleanup of your work area. You could put that on a resume to a fucking warehouse or a construction company. Be fucking creative. They're not gonna think you're stupid if you can actually write it in a way that makes it believable.

Anyway, after you've put everything on your resume, then you can save a shitload of time when you're applying for jobs because you can just remove or modify shit to tailor it to the job you're applying for.

I am the 1%
I let other people for me.
Recently due to the economically difficult times only my mother...

Well, you jelly 99%?

Go and clean my toilets!

>>1380368

Refuted? More like a ton of people calling the rich greedy. Which is a giant generalization

My parents earned everything. And by everything, i mean everything. Im talking lived in the slums poor. Im talking no utilities in their shack poor. Im talking, didnt have shoes til they were in their teens poor. I am proud to have parents, who fought tooth and nail for success. But im not going to apologize that their hard work lets me live a life of relative ease, especially compared to their upbringing

>>1380475
Did you attend a public school?

>>1380463
>I let other people work for me.

Fixed

>>1380490

WHY AM I GETTING MUTED FOR UNORIGINALITY

yes, i did.

There will always be haves and have nots. The haves will always be making more money off the poor than spending money.

Mostly because the second a poor person wins the lottery or whatever they go blow all their money on houses and cars and don't take into account asset taxes and don't manage their money and properly invest it in a way that benefits them in the long term. Same with athletes and celebrities that get rich super fast and then you're reading about how they're in over their ass in debt and getting their 100,000,000 square foot home repoed.

>poor people are poor because they are inherently stupid and given the opportunity to be rich only proves this further

>>1380475
>im not going to apologize that their hard work lets me live a life of relative ease

WE ARE NOT ASKING YOU TO APOLOGIZE FOR HAVING IT EASY. WE ARE ASKING YOU TO APOLOGIZE FOR BEING A GIGANTIC FUCKING CUNT.

>>1380516
Not every poor person who suddenly earns all that money does the same thing.

And even if they were stupid, does that justify treating them less humanely?

>public school comments

Considering it's the law to send a child under the age of 16 to school everyday, it doesn't matter if the family is poor or not. It doesn't matter if the family pays into the system or not. The kid could be homeless and still have to go to school.

>>1380545
>And even if they were stupid, does that justify treating them less humanely

Yes. Yes it does. Stupid people don't deserve any breaks in life.

>>1380457


And when you're applying for a job, imagine that you're a human resource manager who's sifting through job applications. Try to think what the person at the job you're applying for wants to see. They don't spend time reading every application, they skim. Keep it less than a page. Use bullet points. Make it something that they want to read.

Certain things really stand out for them. A CPR certification is something that the vast majority of the population DO NOT HAVE. But it's something that a lot of companies LOVE to have in an employee. If you get to the interview and show them that little CPR card that says you took the class and learned how to do mouth to mouth and use a defibrillator, there's a good chance they'll decide to hire you before they even ask any fucking questions. Same thing with the OSHA 10 training. If you get 10 hours of safety training, you're much more employable than the next idiot. And they're both not all that expensive. The OSHA costs like 200 bucks and the CPR cert costs like 40.

>>1380532

Im sorry :3

But in all seriousness, im not arguing for the sake of money, or because i think im better than everybody.
I just think that everyone should be able to do whatever the fuck they want (whats the point of life if you dont). Unless it effects another person in a negative manner.

And before you say that all those rich bastards are just leeches, using the poor, i want to point out that only small percentage do. And those who do should be punished (people fucking around with the financial market, using others etc). But we have the SEC for that. And the way we as the people deal with that, is by not giving them our business. If you dont like the board of X financial group, then dont invest with them. Dont deal with them. If you dont like how walmart treats its employees, dont shop there. That is where your power is.

>>1380583
So, I'm allowed to protest something as long as I don't actually make a difference?

>>1380606

it makes a difference, if everybody does it.

>>1378674
>lol

>not original wtfmang

>>1380577
CPR is a complete waste of time, you seem like you know a lot about CPR, so you should know that "mouth to mouth" is an outdated term, nobody does that anymore. You also probably know the survival rate with CPR is 3%.

So it might look "good" to a casual, but its a huge waste of time and money.

>>1380566
Exactly, since the government enforces this, education is an entitlement.

Dude, nobody gets rich without exploiting poor people. If there's a way, please tell me.

>>1380797
>implying "exploitation" is a bad thing
There are always predators and prey, masters and slaves. This is natural, and there is nothing you can do to change this

>>1380811
Stop mixing human life with animal life. You don't see lions abusing of other lions so they can get more meat then they could eat, it's a completely stupid analogy and even more with this subject...

>>1380825
>You don't see lions abusing of other lions so they can get more meat then they could eat
Actually, you do. Male lions eat first, then females, then cubs.

Humans are nothing more than animals.

>>1380840
>Actually, you do. Male lions eat first, then females, then cubs.
And then the alpha male gets enough meat to eat fro every day the race has existed in his life time? Because the 1% has more money than they could need in 1000 years, how can you compare?

>>1380859
artificially created wealth allows for greater concentrations of it. Lions are physically unable to own that much resources in the wild. Humans can create enough resources so that one of them can have enough for a 1000 years

>>1380436
>What is necessary is to survive and reproduce

Which is either an untrue statement or a statement whose truth is not discernible. Therfore you are talking nonsense and everyone should just ignore you.

>>1380475
>More like a ton of people calling the rich greedy

No posts you replied to said that.

You are bringing way too much emotion into this which shows that you do not and can not look at this reasonably.

>>1380945
I did not imply that it is true. Life, which is nothing more than the will to power, is a lie. We can either affirm this lie or deny it. The choice is yours

>>1380961

lololol

why dont you forgo the character attacks and just talk about why you think i should pay for someone else
its really that simple

>>1380583
>And before you say that all those rich bastards are just leeches, using the poor, i want to point out that only small percentage do

You are completely arguing besides the point.

Our argument:
>poverty and bad education etc. are due to socioeconomic factors and other variables that are only determined by luck

Your argument:
>my parents became successful despite all odds

Our argument:
>this does not refute that the majority of people are poor or rich due to being born to rich or poor parents, and those who did become rich despite being born into poor families did so because they have inherent abilities, skills or traits which were given them by fate rather than hard work, such as intelligence

your argument:
>so you are saying that all rich people are leeches!

our argument:
>no, we are not

your argument:
>you do not want me to feel proud and enjoy my life!

our argument:
>NO WE DON'T YOU STUPID CUNT LEARN TO READ!

>>1380811
>There are always predators and prey, masters and slaves. This is natural, and there is nothing you can do to change this

Except in Scandinavia.

>>1381015
If welfare is a right, the sex should be a right to

>>1380975
>I did not imply that it is true

Making a statement without assuming that it is true is the same as making no statement at all.

>go to /r9k/
>look at front page
>see this thread
>more than 250 replies omitted
>mfw

>>1381015 just won the game.

>>1381026
Those welfare states could not exist without fiat money and fossil fuels. Egalitarianism and humanism are only viable paradigms as long as modern industry is still functioning. Wait until cheap oil comes to an end

>>1381030
No, it shouldn't and that's a retarded argument. Sex is not a basic need.

>yes it is

No, it is not, and even if you assume that it is, forcing someone to have sex with another person is a much more direct infringement on right than taking away a portion of their money.

>>1380797
>>1380811

you two are retarded.

think of a business owner, and his employees. the business owner provides the impetus for the business, the policies that run it and make it better, and the initial investment to get it started. the employees provide the skills that he cant, and the labour to keep the business going. its a synergistic relationship. the owner cannot do all the labour by himself, and the employees cannot run the business themselves.

people cannot ever be equal in what they have, simply because everybody has a different skill set. some skills are harder to come by than others (financial acumen vs general labor). obviously the people with the more valuable skill set are gonna make more

>>1381038
Just because something is a lie doesn't mean you should not believe in it. Life is a lie, yet one can still affirm his will to power, despite knowing its falsehood.

>>1381068
>Just because something is a lie doesn't mean you should not believe in it

That does not make any sense whatsoever.

I don't have time to worry about these things because I am a working adult who has learned to live with the system and through that it benefits me.

>Sex is not a basic need.
Easy for you to say if you get tons of it. Not having it when you really want it just chips away at your sanity

>No, it is not, and even if you assume that it is, forcing someone to have sex with another person is a much more direct infringement on right than taking away a portion of their money.
How so? Never being able to have sex is worse than death. Your life becomes a prolonged torture

>>1381084
>makes no sense
the nihilist does not believe that one needs to be logical.

Keep sucking that 1% cock, /r9k/.

You children are going to fucking *hate* you for continuing on with this strenuously obvious corruption.

BUT HURR LIBERAL HIPPIES GET A JOB AMIRITE GUISE? FOX NEWS FOX NEWS FOX NEWS

>>1381117
Okay, but in that case he should piss rainbows when the pegasi dig the tunnel around Mars.

Hey guys, I found a photo of OP!

Don't mind me, just living in purple masterrace.

Isn't there a whole board dedicated to this kind of shit thread?

I think it's called /pole/ or something.

>>1381015

You know, i could make something exactly like you just did, by debasing everything you said, and elaborating on everything i said. Its completely pointless to be so goddamn negative about this. Those arent part of my argument, im simply pointing out that not everybody can be well off in life. You have to earn it.

Why cant everybody be well off? Its simple economics. If we have one hundred people with skill A (the ability to do general labor), and only five people with skill B (creativity to create a project), who do you think is more valuable? And in our society, that value comes back to people with Skill B in the form of money. This is just simplified, because there will be Skill C (able to organize the Skill A's successfully), Skill B (able to grow crops for everybody to eat), etc

There will always be people better off than others, for many reasons. There is no such thing, and never will be, as true equality.
1. Some people are smarter than others
2. Some people have more valuable skills than others
3. Some people work harder than others
4. Some people _____________________
and so on, and so on

The people with ^^^^^^ will inevitably be on the top.

ITT: Staunch supporters of opposite ideologies disagree with each other, neither side changes its mind about anything

>>1381168
>im simply pointing out that not everybody can be well off in life. You have to earn it.

>it is impossible for everyone to achieve the same status regardless of effort
>you just have to earn it

You just proved yourself that "earning" it is in no way enough and that it's ultimately out of the individual's hands whether they become rich or successful.

>>1381168

And i understand about why people are how they are (geodemographic groups, socioeconomic status, etc)

But they arent stuck there. They can move up in life, or down, depending on what they do with the opportunities provided to them. Im all for giving them more opportunities, because wealth always spreads. But directly giving them food/shelter (in the form of welfare) im against. Like i said, teach a man to fish and you feed him for a life time. But thats just a personal view, why the fuck do i even have to teach someone to fish? nevertheless straight up give him a fish. Fuck off, im gonna do what i want with my money, you can do what you want with your money

>>1381046
>Those welfare states could not exist without fiat money and fossil fuels
>fossil fuels

I said scandinavia, not Norway. Sweden barely produces any oil.

>>1381184

when did this come up?
>it is impossible for everyone to achieve the same status regardless of effort

>>1381193
>Like i said, teach a man to fish and you feed him for a life time

Yeah, but you also said that only 5 out of a hundred know how to hold a fishing rod, effectively condemning the other 95 to starve.

>>1381206
>Why cant everybody be well off?
>The people with ^^^^^^ will inevitably be on the top.
>inevitably

You know what inevitalby means, right? It means you can't change it.

You said that it's their inborn skills that determine success, which means that if they do not have the correct set of skills, they can not be successful regardless of effort.

>>1381210

thats not what i said, but lets roll with that (keep in mind this isnt a perfect analogy)

lets say that now everybody can fish. someone will figure out how to catch crawfish. that person will be more valuable than the rest, because he can do something they cant. there will always be someone who can do something you cant

healthcare we can get for free. all the other countries have free healthcare.

>get a job
>need an education
>can't get education

>>1378316
>>1378316
>>1378316

if all of this is true, then the world just created us for nothing??? We had no choice in our creation

>>1381229
And that one person happened to learn how to catch crawfish by chance (luck).
Even if effort does play an essential role, it is NOT the determiner for success.

>>1381224

I didnt say it was their "inborn" skills. Thats the exact opposite of what im saying. Im saying everything can be earned (whether through learning or hard work). evverybody starts off equal as a baby (im ignoring things like genetics, somethings just cant be helped)

>>1381262
You gave the ability to produce manual labor and creativity as examples. Creativity is the best example for an ability that is not achievable through effort.

>somethings just cant be helped
>somethings just cant be helped
WILL YOU PLEASE FINALLY AGREE THAT EFFORT IS NOT ALL?!?
You know, there are people who are born with a disposition to depression, make the incapable to achieve anything in their life despite being very creative for example. Others are born to alcoholic parents who abuse them and cause long-lasting mental trauma. All of that is out of people's hands. It's just something that happens to them and it ruins their lives. It can actually ruin their ability to make an effort at all.

>>1381257

Effort is THE most important thing. You cannot control what you were born with, nobody can. But you CAN control how much effort you put into your life, how much you work for success. Its the only thing that you have control of, thats why its the most important.

Personally i dont think its luck, its just hardwork by your forebears. Someone, at some point, built that wealth. But call it what you will.
If you cant control it, why not just fucking roll with what you do have, EFFORT.

Stop replying to this thread.
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>>1381290

Sure, effort is just a piece of the pie, but its the only piece we're allowed. SO EAT ALL OF IT

I dont think we're ever gonna agree on this. I understand people are born into shit situations, and some people have blocks on their life that cant be dealt with (the things you mentioned). But like you said, thats out of our hands.

ITT people who've been bought up on the false notion that violence doesnt solve anything

lets see you make change without violence

>>1381290

Also, creativity is earned (in a way)
Like being intellectually stimulated as a child helps with all those "soft skills" for lack of a better word

>You have to work for it, pay for it, and earn it.
You forgot to add "because a more powerful human being controls your entire existence and you pretty much have to be a good slave to him to survive". Because, you know, without those people, you'd be entitled to everything in the OP. The only reason you're currently not is because someone else has taken that right from you and is selling it back to you for the price of eternal serfdom.

>>1381324
>But like you said, thats out of our hands.

THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT I WAS TRYING TO CONVEY TO YOU!

Effort requires motivation, and for effort to have an adequate effect, it needs purposeful use of skills, which requires education. Effort itself is determined by a billion other factors.

I will agree that saying we should do the best of our lives and put effort into it is the right attitude to live life, but you can't explain the objective world that way.

There are no rights.
Rights are something we humans invented, they are made up.
Therefore anything can be a right if we so choose.
Of course, the reverse is also true.

>>1381344
>being intellectually stimulated as a child
>being stimulated

You are talking the passive. That's not "effort".

>>1381370

excellente, i completely agree.

im basically social anarchist in my views, but the main theme in my philosophy is that NO PERSON should have to do anything for another person. Its up to them to decide what they want to do. whether its completely ignore them, or 100% support them

>>1381413

Yes, i know that. But thats one of the things that we dont have control of (up to your parents). Thats something you can do for your kid though. Not my fault that i got it, and someone else didnt. That just means i can achieve that easier than they can. But that still has no bearing on why i should help them (unless i want to)

>>1381291
>Effort is THE most important thing. You cannot control what you were born with, nobody can. But you CAN control how much effort you put into your life, how much you work for success. Its the only thing that you have control of, thats why its the most important.

>parents tell me I need to work hard in school to get into college
>graduate top 5% of class with 3.9 GPA
>parents tell me I need to work hard in college to get a job
>complete an engineering degree in less than 4 years with a good GPA, publish research, place 10th in a national design competion
>Unable to find any job.

Go fuck yourself.

>>1381482

I didnt say the world was perfect. Obviously you did extremely well for yourself, and im jelly of your accomplishments. Youll get that job eventually man

>>1381511
>applied for hundreds of jobs
>never hear back from any of them

If you ever hear of someone shooting up an HR office, it was probably me.

>>1381526

aaww come one man, dont do it. i dont want the gun control groups to have a field day

>>1381562
When you have been trying to find a job in your field of study for 4 years you will want to pop a few HR people in head.

I don't have any opposition to moving for a job, but no one will give me a 2nd look unless I live near where they are hiring. I am stuck in a shitty rust belt town because I have no money and I live with my mom. No one is hiring, not even the McDonalds.

>>1381611

where did you go to school? have you tried job placement agency type stuff?

>>1381672
A school in PA.

>have you tried job placement agency type stuff?

Yes. They said they will get back to me when they find a position that matches my experience. That was months ago.

>>1381685

Well shit, i hope things turn around for you. Volunteer somewhere in the mean time, just to add something to your resume

>>1381708
I see little point to wasting my time with volunteer work. At this point I would rather stay at home and enjoy a beer or 8 rather than feed some nigger who will try to rob me later that night.

>>1381735

....somethings better than nothing on your resume
and you could volunteer at something non-nigger related

or play some free online game :3

>>1381786
>...somethings better than nothing on your resume
and you could volunteer at something non-nigger related

One side of my town is infested with them. They killed a bar owner last moth for no reason. I refuse to deal with them as a whole.

>or play some free online game :3
You better be a good sniper or have an uber if you are trying to kill my heavy in TF2.