Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)22:08 No.10474560

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)22:08 No.10474560

Replies: >>10474681

>>10474490 (OP)

Enjoy your repeated scams, poor quality and downward spiral of consumer confidence.

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)22:12 No.10474681

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)22:12 No.10474681

Replies: >>10475166

>>10474560
That doesn't make sense. If all products of a certain kind were of low quality then someone could create something of better quality to compete with them. The producers of lower quality items would have to face declining sales or increase their product's quality.

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)22:16 No.10474781

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)22:16 No.10474781

Replies: >>10474831 >>10475283 >>10475369 >>10477692 >>10479975

>>10474490 (OP)
In anarcho-capitalism, you pay private companies for police protection, fire fighters, roads, etc.

Today, we pay the government taxes for police protection, fire fighters, roads, etc.

The difference: a private company can do whatever it wants because it is privately, or corporately owned, and if you don't like the way they run their operation, then you have to put up with it or switch to another company where the same dilemma arises. Governments are accountable to their people because we elect them. Sometimes people are too stupid to elect good politicians, but ultimately, the power rests at the voting booth.

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)22:17 No.10474831

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)22:17 No.10474831

Replies: >>10474951

>>10474781
>Governments are accountable to their people because we elect them. Sometimes people are too stupid to elect good politicians, but ultimately, the power rests at the voting booth.

Oh my goodness. Son, how long have you been locked away from the real world?

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)22:23 No.10474951

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)22:23 No.10474951

Replies: >>10475510 >>10476524 >>10477544

>>10474831
How long have you been locked away from the reality that corporation are far worse than governments. Every great change in history has come through populist revolution or government action. Corporations are designed to profit and will not put ideology or principle before profit. Governments can and occasionally, when the circumstances are right, will.

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)22:25 No.10475016

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)22:25 No.10475016

Replies: >>10475057

Statist reporting in. Stay edgy faggots

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)22:27 No.10475057

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)22:27 No.10475057

Replies: >>10475125 >>10475210

>>10475016

>statist enters thread
>immediately uses ad hominem

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)22:29 No.10475125

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)22:29 No.10475125

Replies: >>10475325 >>10475385

>>10475057
I am a statist, the one who posted this:

>In anarcho-capitalism, you pay private companies for police protection, fire fighters, roads, etc.

>Today, we pay the government taxes for police protection, fire fighters, roads, etc.

>The difference: a private company can do whatever it wants because it is privately, or corporately owned, and if you don't like the way they run their operation, then you have to put up with it or switch to another company where the same dilemma arises. Governments are accountable to their people because we elect them. Sometimes people are too stupid to elect good politicians, but ultimately, the power rests at the voting booth.

I did not use an ad hominem. Instead, an ancap used an ad hominem against me by asking me how long I have been "locked up." Nice try hypocrite.

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)22:31 No.10475166

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)22:31 No.10475166

Replies: >>10475280 >>10475295 >>10475421

>>10474681
I think the poor quality products would still prevail. Look at Walmart and McDonalds.

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)22:33 No.10475210

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)22:33 No.10475210

>>10475057
I'm the statist that posted above. Edge onward brave soldier.

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)22:35 No.10475263

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)22:35 No.10475263

Replies: >>10480021

>any year
>being an ancap
>not being a left-lolbertarian

shiggy diggy doo

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)22:35 No.10475280

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)22:35 No.10475280

>>10475166
Then what is the problem? If people want the poor quality shit they will buy it.

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)22:35 No.10475283

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)22:35 No.10475283

>>10474781
The government is a corporation, and if you think they're genuinely accountable to the tax livestock they own you're fooling yourself.

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)22:36 No.10475295

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)22:36 No.10475295

>>10475166
Massive state subsidies, not a free market, shit example

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)22:37 No.10475325

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)22:37 No.10475325

Replies: >>10475473 >>10475586

>>10475125
So in the case of a bad company that does not listen to its customers I can simply switch to another company or create my own. In the case of a bad government that does not listen to its people I can do what? Nothing? Great!

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)22:38 No.10475350

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)22:38 No.10475350

Serious question; what is anarcho capitalism?

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)22:39 No.10475369

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)22:39 No.10475369

>>10474781
accountable? You mean like I get to vote every couple of years for candidates that have already been pre-selected and approved by the Old Boys club?? Accountability in the gov't is a joke.

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)22:39 No.10475385

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)22:39 No.10475385

>>10475125
>Governments are accountable to their people because we elect them.

Funny.

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)22:40 No.10475421

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)22:40 No.10475421

>>10475166
McDonalds and Walmart both offer great VALUE. This is an important distinction.

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)22:41 No.10475453

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)22:41 No.10475453

Replies: >>10476063

>>10474490 (OP)
>implying capitalism is voluntary

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)22:41 No.10475459

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)22:41 No.10475459

> 1700 + 313
> statists still trust government
all of my what

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)22:42 No.10475473

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)22:42 No.10475473

Replies: >>10475551 >>10475563

File: 1361418149812.jpg-(9 KB, 208x255, johnny_cochran_b.jpg)

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>>10475325
>simply switch
Not when they're a monopoly. Then you don't even have the power of the vote.

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)22:44 No.10475510

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)22:44 No.10475510

Replies: >>10475638 >>10475728

>>10474951
>Every great change in history has come through populist revolution or government action.
This is a grand sweeping statement with no truth behind it. The automobile wasn't created by a government bill or populist revolution. Computers in every home was not the result of state intervention. Recent history has suggested that the great changes in our lives have come from the free market, those driven by profit. Before the free market, you are correct, but only as any change had to be necessarily derived from government.
For fun, let's compare what advances to our society the market as done, as opposed to the state in the last 100 years. The state, to its great credit has the genocides Holodomor, Holocaust, the Armenian genocide, the Mao run genocide.
Free market has McDonalds, Ford, Dell, American Airlines.
>corporation are far worse than governments
Corporations are as apart of government as the Federal Reserve. It can't be any worse or better than government because it necessarily is government.

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)22:46 No.10475551

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)22:46 No.10475551

Replies: >>10475641

>>10475473
how are monopolies created?? almost exclusively through the state

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)22:46 No.10475563

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)22:46 No.10475563

>>10475473
>monopoly

You mean like the government?

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)22:47 No.10475586

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)22:47 No.10475586

Replies: >>10475643

>>10475325
Except that after the initial companies solidify a monopoly and have the resources to use force to stop competition, you will be living under a dictatorship.

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)22:49 No.10475638

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)22:49 No.10475638

>>10475510
The changes you cite are all inventions, which of course come from individuals. I am talking about great societal change, like transitions from one period of civilization to the next. The economy is one thing, but should not supersede culture and civilization in importance.

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)22:49 No.10475641

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)22:49 No.10475641

>>10475551
How are you going to stop foreign state backed companies from forming monopolies?

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)22:49 No.10475643

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)22:49 No.10475643

Replies: >>10475773

>>10475586
It's like you're just describing a government.

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)22:52 No.10475728

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)22:52 No.10475728

>>10475510
>what is DARPA?

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)22:54 No.10475773

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)22:54 No.10475773

Replies: >>10475800 >>10476153

>>10475643
My point exactly: corporations will just become a tyrannical government that controls without consent. Then, it will be democratized through public uprising and outcry. Then we will have what we have now. What is the point of going through all that?

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)22:55 No.10475800

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)22:55 No.10475800

>>10475773
To make shekels in the mean time.

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:04 No.10476063

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:04 No.10476063

>>10475453
what's not voluntary? The fact that you have to feed yourself? This is not coercion, such involves two people

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:08 No.10476153

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:08 No.10476153

Replies: >>10476293 >>10476330

>>10475773
Democracy is dumb. There's no reason to think you get more competent management by having the customer select the CEO rather than the shareholders.

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:13 No.10476293

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:13 No.10476293

Replies: >>10476380 >>10476447

>>10476153
I am not saying that I support democracy. But in the case where the corporate monopolies in a ancap civilization become a tyrannical oppressor, democracy is inevitable just as it was during the reign of the absolutist monarchs. Whether you agree or not, its inevitable.

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:14 No.10476330

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:14 No.10476330

>>10476153
I guess that's one way of saying it, but I think it makes more sense when it's said that half of the nation should not be able to vote themselves money to be stolen from the other half

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:16 No.10476380

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:16 No.10476380

>>10476293
democracy took an education for people to go along with it too.

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:18 No.10476447

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:18 No.10476447

Replies: >>10476511

>>10476293
I don't think it necessarily is inevitable. It's true that that happened, that doesn't mean there's some inexorable law of nature that it always will happen. Nor are non-democratic government necessarily tyrannical.

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:21 No.10476511

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:21 No.10476511

>>10476447
Non-democratic governments become tyrannical with time, the tyranny is replaced with democracy, the democracy becomes corrupt and devolves, and a new non-democratic government replaces it. Then the cycle repeats.

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:21 No.10476524

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:21 No.10476524

>>10474951
>MC Donald's is worse than a thieving, monopolistic, involuntary tyranny

yeah, I'm going to have to disagree with you there.

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:23 No.10476552

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:23 No.10476552

Replies: >>10476849 >>10480060

Anarcho-capitalism is in contradiction with itself. Capitalism is impossible without state sanctioned violence to preserve monopolies on natural resources.

Anonymous
int 02/20/13(Wed)23:28 No.10476691

int Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:28 No.10476691

Replies: >>10476755

Did you know that you pay $0.50 each month on ur cell phone plan for 911 access?

Lets take my city of 1,000,000 people. If 95% have a cell phone, even prepaid, thats $60,000 a year just for operators.

Thats bs. Thats $60,000 we need for ourselves, thats $60,000 of money going to the government for a program we already pay income tax and service coverage for. You dont get gps location to the department without a warrant. They dont pay extra for cell phones calling in. Its a fucking scam.

Anonymous
int 02/20/13(Wed)23:30 No.10476755

int Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:30 No.10476755

Replies: >>10476947

>>10476691
>>10476691
Man my math is bad
Thats $5.7 mil a year

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:32 No.10476820

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:32 No.10476820

Replies: >>10476973

capitalism doesn't exist without the state

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:33 No.10476849

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:33 No.10476849

>>10476552
Can an ancap answer this objection? I'm not the one who posted it but I'd be interested in hearing a response.

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:35 No.10476947

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:35 No.10476947

>>10476755
Dude it's 500k a year.

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:36 No.10476973

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:36 No.10476973

Replies: >>10477021

>>10476820
>capitalism doesn't exist without the state
>capitalism doesn't exist when there's a state

FTFY

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:38 No.10477021

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:38 No.10477021

Replies: >>10477109

>>10476973

nope, still incorrect but its adorable you think otherwise

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:40 No.10477109

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:40 No.10477109

Replies: >>10477197

>>10477021
well, burden of proof is on you bra.

but by definition, how can coercion exist in a voluntary society? It's a contradiction in terms.

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:43 No.10477197

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:43 No.10477197

Replies: >>10477412

>>10477109

actually it isn't since an-cap is inherently contradictory

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:45 No.10477282

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:45 No.10477282

Replies: >>10477381 >>10477412

What is the actual difference between AnCap and a state?

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:48 No.10477381

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:48 No.10477381

Replies: >>10477412

>>10477282
Basically the people who hold the guns in an anarcho-capitalist society don't wear uniforms.

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:49 No.10477412

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:49 No.10477412

Replies: >>10477454 >>10477479 >>10477680

File: 1361422174063.jpg-(68 KB, 599x633, 1358274439743.jpg)

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>>10477197
....again.. burden of proof.. on you......

>>10477282
ancap means NO state.

>>10477381
Because you own your own gun.

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:49 No.10477422

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:49 No.10477422

Replies: >>10477484

>>10477398

its odd capitalism has both

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:50 No.10477438

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:50 No.10477438

Replies: >>10477542

The majority of people are too stupid to understand the essence of an ancap and therefore you spend all your time defeating their poor arguments. Don't even bother.

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:50 No.10477454

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:50 No.10477454

Replies: >>10477542

>>10477412

no it isnt...

you seem to think an opposing ideal can co-exist

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:51 No.10477479

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:51 No.10477479

Replies: >>10477542

>>10477412
so what is the state then

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:51 No.10477484

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:51 No.10477484

File: 1361422294904.jpg-(200 KB, 559x831, Build that.jpg)

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>>10477422

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:53 No.10477542

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:53 No.10477542

Replies: >>10477555 >>10477600 >>10477605 >>10477698

File: 1361422386951.jpg-(82 KB, 800x511, 1357117041077.jpg)

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>>10477438
I'm sure people said that about communism, democracy, a republic..etc

>>10477454
I'm waiting on you to make a point.. been waiting for 3 posts now bra.

>>10477479
There is NO state. ANARCHO capitalism.

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:53 No.10477544

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:53 No.10477544

Replies: >>10477639

>>10474951
When was the last time Sears and Exxon gone to war?

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:53 No.10477555

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:53 No.10477555

Replies: >>10477598

>>10477542
Social Democracy and Communism are dumb people ideologies.

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:54 No.10477598

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:54 No.10477598

Replies: >>10477619

File: 1361422487920.png-(290 KB, 637x354, 1357107824138.png)

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>>10477555
hue hue hue. Do you think Marx was dumb? People don't have to understand anything except that the state is unnecessary.

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:54 No.10477600

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:54 No.10477600

Replies: >>10477738

>>10477542
It seems to you the "state" means anything I don't like

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:54 No.10477605

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:54 No.10477605

Replies: >>10477738

>>10477542

my point has very clearly been stated, its not my problem you don't like the answer but the fact remains - capitalism cannot exist without a state

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:55 No.10477619

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:55 No.10477619

Replies: >>10477738

>>10477598
>Do you think Marx was dumb?
nice strawman

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:55 No.10477639

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:55 No.10477639

Replies: >>10477663 >>10477706

>>10477544
Need I mention the East India Company, Haliburton, etc.? Or the fact that Exxon basically owns the Ivory Coast through its oil domination.

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:55 No.10477649

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:55 No.10477649

You guys are really annoying

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:56 No.10477663

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:56 No.10477663

Replies: >>10477769

>>10477639
How can you "own" the Ivory Coast unless there is an inherently authoritarian government to be owned?

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:56 No.10477680

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:56 No.10477680

Replies: >>10477738

>>10477412
Violence is violence.

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:57 No.10477692

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:57 No.10477692

Replies: >>10477830 >>10477845 >>10478671

>>10474781
He's right though...

Civilization would literally devolve into Mafia control. Except instead of their being a monopoly, rival gangs would fight for control over regions.

Eventually, you'd be Somalia.

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:57 No.10477698

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:57 No.10477698

Replies: >>10477902

>>10477542
I'm asking, If you don't think there should be a state, what exactly do you think there shouldn't be?

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:57 No.10477706

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:57 No.10477706

>>10477639
>naming companies that survived off state intervention/regulations/subsidies/monopolistic controls

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:58 No.10477738

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:58 No.10477738

Replies: >>10477766 >>10477783 >>10477878

File: 1361422697626.jpg-(63 KB, 720x343, 1347943797495.jpg)

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>>10477600
It is an entity that has a monopoly over violence and the ability to forcibly tax over a given region.

>>10477619
You said those were dumb people ideologies.. marx came up with socialism and communism... I don't think it's a far crawl.

>>10477605
And the burden of proof is on you to prove that.

>>10477680
Some violence is justified, most is not. If a man kills 10 innocent children, he should be killed.

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:58 No.10477766

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:58 No.10477766

Replies: >>10477902

>>10477738
>You said those were dumb people ideologies.. marx came up with socialism and communism... I don't think it's a far crawl.
You aren't very good at arguing. Stop giving the ideology you think you're defending a bad name.

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:58 No.10477769

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:58 No.10477769

Replies: >>10477787

>>10477663
Ivory Coast doesn't have an authoritarian government. Exxon simply owns the land on which their oil fields lie and they use private military contractors (XE, formerly Blackwater) to defend their oil rigs from natives.

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:59 No.10477783

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:59 No.10477783

Replies: >>10477902

>>10477738

again, it isn't because i'm not the one claiming an opposing ideal can co-exist

Anonymous
02/20/13(Wed)23:59 No.10477787

Anonymous 02/20/13(Wed)23:59 No.10477787

Replies: >>10477825

>>10477769
>defend their oil rigs from natives
Why do they have to defend their oil rigs from natives? Are the natives attacking them?

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:00 No.10477825

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:00 No.10477825

Replies: >>10477869

>>10477787
Yes, they are. Ivory Coast paramilitary groups have been attempting to rid themselves of ExxonMobile.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:00 No.10477830

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:00 No.10477830

File: 1361422845206.jpg-(22 KB, 400x400, 13045156.jpg)

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>>10477692
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ak3TwNXA0w

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:01 No.10477845

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:01 No.10477845

Replies: >>10478178

File: 1361422862010.jpg-(590 KB, 700x1036, The invasion of the liber(...).jpg)

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>>10477692

So the plan, such as it is, is to give a small group of people a monopoly on the force and hope for the best?

I'm confused why you believe that society would break down if, instead of a state, we have competing enterprises carrying out the state's functions.

What exactly changes if the government is gone? Its the EXACT SAME PEOPLE with or without the state, why are they civilized when arranged in a system of 'government' but suddenly all hell breaks lose when arranged in a system of anarcho-capitalism?

What changes, precisely?

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:01 No.10477869

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:01 No.10477869

Replies: >>10477906

>>10477825
Sounds like the Ivory Coast is trying to illegally seize property that does not belong to them. Good thing the free market is protecting Exxon.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:02 No.10477878

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:02 No.10477878

Replies: >>10477948 >>10478001

>>10477738
>completely not answer my question
>quote some 200 year old book by some old fuck

typical Ancap

You guys are either bureaunarchists or half-anarchists that say "only shoot people when they do something I don't like"

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:02 No.10477902

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:02 No.10477902

Replies: >>10477933 >>10478075

File: 1361422953534.jpg-(517 KB, 1914x1632, 1355033801428.jpg)

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>>10477698
There should not be an entity that has a monopoly over violence and the ability to forcibly tax over a given region.

>>10477766
I don't think I made a mistake, if I did, point it out.

>>10477783
I think we define capitalism differently. Under my definition, it is an area without a state and without organized or agreed-to coercion within its markets.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:02 No.10477906

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:02 No.10477906

Replies: >>10477953

>>10477869
You are either being ironic, or you are a complete imbecile.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:03 No.10477933

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:03 No.10477933

Replies: >>10478001

>>10477902

>my feelings are the definition

no, no they aren't

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:03 No.10477948

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:03 No.10477948

Replies: >>10478075

>>10477878
what part of initiating force only in self defense of one's own life or justly acquired property do you not understand, statist?

see: non-aggression principle

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:03 No.10477953

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:03 No.10477953

Replies: >>10478000 >>10478058

>>10477906
How? You just stated yourself that the Ivory Coast natives were trying to steal property from companies. You're most likely doing this because you view white people are intrinsically wrong or immoral when in the situation the aggressors, by your own claims, are the Ivory Coast paramilitary groups taking private property through probable murder attempts with force.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:05 No.10478000

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:05 No.10478000

Replies: >>10478016

>>10477953

>being this retarded

i mean really

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:05 No.10478001

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:05 No.10478001

Replies: >>10478077

File: 1361423111089.jpg-(77 KB, 960x720, 1355040521994.jpg)

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>>10477878
If you want to go into ethics, I can. Name specifics.

>>10477933
Would you like to offer a proper definition so that we can discuss the differences?

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:05 No.10478016

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:05 No.10478016

Replies: >>10478054

>>10478000
>a bunch of ad hominem attacks because you're proven to be wrong at the fundamental level
Back to SRS.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:06 No.10478054

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:06 No.10478054

Replies: >>10478081

>>10478016

>claims ad hominem with an ad hominem attack

oh you

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:06 No.10478057

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:06 No.10478057

File: 1361423207120.jpg-(17 KB, 480x315, 1347940964537.jpg)

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>>10478015
HNNNNGGGGG fknsved.jpg

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:06 No.10478058

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:06 No.10478058

Replies: >>10478119

>>10477953
I do not view white people as intrinsically evil. But I cannot believe that you are justifying an American corporation's successful attempts to steal land from a sovereign nation and then call the natives trying to reclaim their own land, which had been theirs, stealing.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:07 No.10478075

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:07 No.10478075

Replies: >>10478126 >>10478158

>>10477902
Okay, what the fuck is an "entity"

>>10477948
>priciples
Sounds a lot like law, maybe you are the statist here, bro

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:07 No.10478077

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:07 No.10478077

>>10478001

yes, the dictionary

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:07 No.10478081

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:07 No.10478081

Replies: >>10478111

>>10478054
>HURRRRRRR I CALLED HIM A NAME AND HE CALLED ME A NAME HE CANT DO THAT IM A TRANSFEM BIGENDERED AFROFUR

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:08 No.10478111

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:08 No.10478111

>>10478081

i don't understand what you are saying, can you please gather your emotions and make a coherent statement

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:08 No.10478119

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:08 No.10478119

Replies: >>10478185 >>10478190

>>10478058
What are you talking about? The Africans don't own African land. We're all humans. We all are equally entitled to that land, ExxonMobile just got there with their machines and bought it first. They have every right to drill the land they own, there's no such thing as an African or American, it's just human land.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:08 No.10478126

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:08 No.10478126

File: 1361423321885.jpg-(27 KB, 500x339, Mises Gallatin House semi(...).jpg)

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>>10478075
>NAP
>law

wow, sure is high school in here

you must not have been taught the difference between a moral stance and a law in your government school

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:09 No.10478146

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:09 No.10478146

Replies: >>10478164

You guys are not actually anarchists and you are fucking annoying.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:09 No.10478158

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:09 No.10478158

Replies: >>10478376

File: 1361423387401.jpg-(516 KB, 1666x846, 1355037463400.jpg)

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>>10478075
Definition of ENTITY

1
a : being, existence; especially : independent, separate, or self-contained existence

And who says you can't have contractual law?

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:09 No.10478164

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:09 No.10478164

File: 1361423398548.png-(37 KB, 480x400, truth.png)

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>>10478146
probably applicable to you

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:10 No.10478178

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:10 No.10478178

Replies: >>10478389

>>10477845
What changes is that without a state, the limiting pressure is removed from those wishing to exploit the masses. Just as the financial industry cannot be trusted to regulate themselves, we would see the current police and military deteriorate into the highest level of corruption possible. What negative consequences would they have?

Essentially the level of peoples corruption is exactly equal to the amount they can reasonably get away with.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:10 No.10478185

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:10 No.10478185

>>10478119

not bad

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:10 No.10478190

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:10 No.10478190

Replies: >>10478221 >>10478232

>>10478119
Nevermind. You are completely blinded from logic by your extremist ideology to the point that you cannot understand even the simplest logic. I will now cease the discussion. You obviously do not even understand the concept of national self-determination or anything about modernity. Sorry, for your ignorance. Goodnight.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:11 No.10478221

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:11 No.10478221

Replies: >>10478249

>>10478190

you got trolled sweetheart, calm down

it was actually a decent one by this boards standards

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:12 No.10478232

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:12 No.10478232

Replies: >>10478394

>>10478190
I don't understand how thinking we're all humans is "extremist ideology", unless you buy into some archaic form of racism that purports we aren't all simply humans. Clearly, we are all equal. Africans have equal right to buy American land because they are the same as we are. Ideally, there would be no national borders, because we're all functionally the same species and we could erase oppression if we allowed all humans to coexist.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:12 No.10478238

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:12 No.10478238

Replies: >>10478297 >>10478343

File: 1361423548635.jpg-(325 KB, 640x480, fuck-anarchism.jpg)

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I remember being an anarchist. Then I turned 15.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:12 No.10478249

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:12 No.10478249

Replies: >>10478261 >>10478433

>>10478221
Your use of the word sweetheart makes me imagine you as an evil jewess.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:13 No.10478261

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:13 No.10478261

Replies: >>10478433

>>10478249
It makes me imagine him as an SRS poster. Because that's what he is.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:14 No.10478291

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:14 No.10478291

I prefer to refer to my self as non-political rather than an anarchist

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:14 No.10478297

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:14 No.10478297

File: 1361423651336.jpg-(104 KB, 960x590, Govern Yourself.jpg)

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>>10478238

Sooo what are you now?

Anteater !!VyIROBcMkwf
02/21/13(Thu)00:14 No.10478321

Anteater !!VyIROBcMkwf 02/21/13(Thu)00:14 No.10478321

File: 1361423682480.jpg-(68 KB, 460x288, tumblr_mbdyutX37v1ret4eho1_500.jpg)

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>>10474490 (OP)

Hi. You guys are alright, I guess.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:15 No.10478342

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:15 No.10478342

Replies: >>10478403 >>10478437 >>10478477

ITT:
people believe private citizens are infallible and can do no wrong, and whenever ANYTHING goes wrong its the governments fault

thanksobama.gif

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:15 No.10478343

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:15 No.10478343

File: 1361423714731.jpg-(40 KB, 500x272, 1355008879434.jpg)

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>>10478238
>multiple people having a monopoly on force
..doesn't that mean they don't have a monopoly

well that was easy

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:16 No.10478376

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:16 No.10478376

Replies: >>10478437

>>10478158
So what is it that you don't want to be or exist?

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:16 No.10478389

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:16 No.10478389

Replies: >>10478444 >>10478906

File: 1361423814590.jpg-(186 KB, 2048x1179, Can't get it right.jpg)

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>>10478178
>What changes is that without a state, the limiting pressure is removed from those wishing to exploit the masses.

>those wishing to exploit the masses

What do you think the state IS? Its a big ball of exploitation of the masses. When you create an entity that most people believe can legitmately FORCE them to do things or give up their property, you're literally ASKING for that power to be exploited.

>Just as the financial industry cannot be trusted to regulate themselves, we would see the current police and military deteriorate into the highest level of corruption possible.

What keeps them from doing that *NOW?*

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:17 No.10478394

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:17 No.10478394

>>10478232

its funny that it required a state to make that happen

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:17 No.10478403

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:17 No.10478403

Replies: >>10478463

File: 1361423845929.gif-(365 KB, 488x650, 1360794400498 (1).gif)

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>>10478342
>but_thats_fucking_wrong_you_retard.jpg

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:18 No.10478433

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:18 No.10478433

Replies: >>10478452

>>10478249
>>10478261

then you should have no trouble defeating my argument

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:18 No.10478437

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:18 No.10478437

Replies: >>10478495 >>10478582 >>10478630

File: 1361423899948.jpg-(77 KB, 576x720, 1355893426387.jpg)

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>>10478342
No, I believe that people are inherently immoral and untrustworthy. For this reason, I do not want any of them making decisions for me.

>>10478376
U trollin? The state is an entity. I don't want the state to exist. This does not mean I do not want to exist. I exist independently of the state.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:18 No.10478444

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:18 No.10478444

Replies: >>10478564

>>10478389

>hur, businesses never change strategies or policies, unlike da evil gubbmunt, which responds to an electorate instead of a customer base

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:18 No.10478452

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:18 No.10478452

Replies: >>10478501

>>10478433
You don't have an argument. I'm sure you've tried plenty of times, though. You're the laughing stock of the board, even the stormfags have more logic behind their ideology.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:19 No.10478463

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:19 No.10478463

Replies: >>10478544 >>10478658

>>10478403
history had already decided the valid points

libertarianism = guilded age results

"regulated" Keynesian free market plox

even adam smith wrote on how the profit motive should be kept in check

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:19 No.10478477

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:19 No.10478477

File: 1361423984155.jpg-(244 KB, 839x467, Bastiate Organizers.jpg)

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>>10478342

No, its just that private citizens won't suddenly become angels when you give them the power to govern their fellow man.

Its BECAUSE private citizens are NOT infallible that we don't trust those same private citizens to run a government effectively.

There is no magical property of government that makes it any more effective, moral, or perfectible than the people that compose it.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:20 No.10478492

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:20 No.10478492

Replies: >>10478597

>my argument is extremely complicated, I can't explain it to you because you haven't read this list of 300 year old books.
- Every ancap

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:20 No.10478495

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:20 No.10478495

Replies: >>10478522 >>10478580 >>10478641

>>10478437
>No, I believe that people are inherently immoral and untrustworthy
thats a type of borderline personality disorder, bro

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:20 No.10478501

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:20 No.10478501

Replies: >>10478523

>>10478452

sure thing

you still haven't stated anything against my argument

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:20 No.10478522

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:20 No.10478522

Replies: >>10478580

>>10478495

so is the opposite

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:20 No.10478523

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:20 No.10478523

Replies: >>10478572

>>10478501
>you still haven't stated anything against my argument
Which one is that?
>he doesn't realize he's not on SRS and he's anonymous

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:21 No.10478544

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:21 No.10478544

Replies: >>10478575

>>10478463
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilded_Age#Economic_growth

"During the 1870s and 1880s, the U.S. economy rose at the fastest rate in its history, with real wages, wealth, GDP, and capital formation all increasing rapidly.[10] For example, between 1865 and 1898, the output of wheat increased by 256%, corn by 222%, coal by 800% and miles of railway track by 567%... By the beginning of the 20th century, per capita income and industrial production in the United States led the world, with per capita incomes double that of Germany or France, and 50% higher than Britain."

Sounds awful.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:22 No.10478564

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:22 No.10478564

Replies: >>10478613

File: 1361424137313.jpg-(118 KB, 604x531, The FDA saves.jpg)

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>>10478444

That the best you can do?

What's stopping the government and/or police from rising to maximum corruption NOW?

Why do you have this implicit distrust of private citizens, but an inherent TRUST of private citizens when they're in government?

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:22 No.10478572

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:22 No.10478572

Replies: >>10478602 >>10478789

>>10478523

you knew who i was before

its ok if you want to play ignorant, you've gotten this far with it

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:22 No.10478575

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:22 No.10478575

Replies: >>10478684 >>10478742

>>10478544
standard oil ring a bell?

no worker rights? people working 120 hour weeks for unlivable wages?

the rise of unions

you obviously didn't pass high school US history

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:22 No.10478580

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:22 No.10478580

>>10478522
>>10478495
Huh?

Anteater !!VyIROBcMkwf
02/21/13(Thu)00:22 No.10478582

Anteater !!VyIROBcMkwf 02/21/13(Thu)00:22 No.10478582

File: 1361424163934.jpg-(29 KB, 500x361, tumblr_mbdytxDpDe1ret4eho1_500.jpg)

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>>10478437

>No, I believe that people are inherently immoral and untrustworthy. For this reason, I do not want any of them making decisions for me.

Interestingly, the fact that individuals are utility maximizing beings actually motivates "moral" behavior. Cooperation, or, at the least, non-aggression, almost always result in a higher level of utility for all involved than isolation or aggression. The problem with the State is that it allows individuals to maximize utility at the expense of others. Some people (especially psychopaths, who are overrepresented in the upper levels of society), will willingly abuse power structures at the expense of others in order to serve their own self interests. THIS is one reason you should oppose the State - it is a main cause of the few extraneous scenarios in which people will go against biological morality.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:23 No.10478597

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:23 No.10478597

Replies: >>10478628

>>10478492
most of the stuff written on anarcho capitalism specifically came from Rothbard, who wrote in the 1950s until his death

in terms of economics many ancaps are Austrians, and the Austrian school wasn't formulated until the mid 19th century by Menger

Come back when you know history

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:23 No.10478602

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:23 No.10478602

Replies: >>10478616

>>10478572
Nobody "knows who you are". You do not have a distinctive writing style. You are not unique. You're simply a random SRS poster with a very impressionable mind who used sweetheart in a post which mirrors the culture of his home board.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:23 No.10478613

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:23 No.10478613

>>10478564
That was someone else.
I'll reply to your other post below.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:23 No.10478616

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:23 No.10478616

>>10478602

so then you know who i am

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:23 No.10478622

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:23 No.10478622

Replies: >>10478721

File: 1361424235566.jpg-(157 KB, 960x893, 319544_254782307983500_11(...).jpg)

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I HAVE FOUND MY HOME ON 4CHAN

also Share this to make the Media's Bias against Ron Paul Viral
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YXlWiTPn7pQ

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:24 No.10478628

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:24 No.10478628

Replies: >>10478653

>>10478597
Rothbard? He was important, sure, but I'm pretty sure the big daddy was Mises.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:24 No.10478630

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:24 No.10478630

Replies: >>10478789 >>10478860

>>10478437
What do you want there not to be?

> I want there to not be a state.

What is a state?

> A state is an entity.

What is an entity?

> An entity is something that exists

So what exactly do you want to not exist?

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:24 No.10478641

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:24 No.10478641

File: 1361424276598.png-(102 KB, 520x585, 1347938616689.png)

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>>10478495
Want to show me the moral and upstanding angel that we should elect to make our decisions better than we can individually?

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:24 No.10478653

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:24 No.10478653

>>10478628

>mises
>an-cap

hahaha what

Anteater !!VyIROBcMkwf
02/21/13(Thu)00:25 No.10478658

Anteater !!VyIROBcMkwf 02/21/13(Thu)00:25 No.10478658

Replies: >>10478707

File: 1361424304492.jpg-(157 KB, 458x500, tumblr_mbdyrno09k1ret4eho1_500.jpg)

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>>10478463

The Gilded Age wasn't anything close to a free market.

The patent monopoly, the shipping monopoly, the tariff monopoly, the banking monopoly, land grants, violent primitive accumulation, political repression, and the unwillingness of the government to recognize property rights even though it claimed itself as the sole arbiter in such affairs lead to the extreme inequity in wealth. It was anything BUT a free market.

http://www.mutualist.org/id4.html

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:25 No.10478671

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:25 No.10478671

Replies: >>10478789

>>10477692
Somalia is anarchy without the capitalism, without the civilization and culture. It is also part of black africa, which has it's own set of problems that seem to be innate to the culture. You can find a dozen forms of government in africa, be it democracy in south africa, tyranny in the conga, ect, and they have all failed there.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:25 No.10478684

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:25 No.10478684

Replies: >>10478760 >>10478806

>>10478575
Standard oil was never a monopoly. At their height they commanded 90% of the oil.

And before the industrial revolution, peasants clawed potatoes out of the guts of the Earth 24/7.

And that leaves 48 hours in the rest of the week.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:26 No.10478707

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:26 No.10478707

Replies: >>10478887

>>10478658
the completely free markets RESULTED in the monopolies.

there NO laws on businesses before that era and up to the Anti Trust laws. the corrupt was also the result of the monopolies LITERALLY buying out government

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:26 No.10478721

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:26 No.10478721

>>10478622
I'm not sure anyone would say the first thing.

And I hate socialists.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:27 No.10478742

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:27 No.10478742

Replies: >>10478851 >>10478870

File: 1361424440554.jpg-(53 KB, 490x452, Exchange.jpg)

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>>10478575

>standard oil ring a bell?

You mean the company that was able to lower oil prices and make consumers happy by streamlining their production process?

What harm did they cause, precisely?

>no worker rights? people working 120 hour weeks for unlivable wages?

>unlivable wages

If they were working for unlivable wages... how did they live????

>the rise of unions

That were put down by state riot police constantly. You're really not making your point here.

>you obviously didn't pass high school US history

You obviously didn't even read your history book.

Lemme guess: public school, then never bothered to look into it yourself?

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:27 No.10478760

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:27 No.10478760

Replies: >>10478856

>>10478684

did you really just say some shit like that

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:28 No.10478789

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:28 No.10478789

Replies: >>10478841 >>10478921

File: 1361424526328.jpg-(77 KB, 810x738, somalia.jpg)

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>>10478572
He did this to me too.. just told me I hadn't taken on his argument.. making none.

He's just wasting your time.

>>10478630
You must be trolling, but I'll put it in lamen's terms for you. A state is a government which has the quality of being an entity. I may remove a red hat from the world without removing the color red.

>>10478671
Here is a set of stats showing somalia before and after anarchy empirically.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:28 No.10478796

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:28 No.10478796

File: 1361424536590.jpg-(44 KB, 960x355, 558371_10152479167265515_(...).jpg)

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Dollar's worth less than the paper it's printed on.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:29 No.10478806

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:29 No.10478806

Replies: >>10478879

>>10478684
90% of oil refining. And lets add that by the time anti-monopoly laws broke them up, they were only at 60%.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:29 No.10478826

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:29 No.10478826

File: 1361424592546.png-(693 KB, 607x1080, Libertardian and Proud.png)

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Call the police, I don't give a fuck.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:30 No.10478841

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:30 No.10478841

Replies: >>10478885 >>10478941

>>10478789
So what is a government?

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:30 No.10478851

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:30 No.10478851

Replies: >>10479052 >>10479096

>>10478742
>You mean the company that was able to lower oil prices and make consumers happy by streamlining their production process?
>What harm did they cause, precisely?
actually they price gouged the country

>If they were working for unlivable wages... how did they live????
they didn't. a lot of people starved. a lot of children too

>That were put down by state riot police constantly. You're really not making your point here.
yea, unions are an important part of our country even do this day because they were constantly defeated and never did anything for any reason. nice try

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:30 No.10478856

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:30 No.10478856

>>10478760
Yes. Wealth is 100% correlated with living standards.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:30 No.10478860

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:30 No.10478860

Replies: >>10478960

>>10478630
The state.

You didn't go to college did you? Talk to me again when you have read some books.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:31 No.10478870

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:31 No.10478870

>>10478742
>What harm did they cause, precisely?

I'm pretty his point is that monopolies can form in any market system, despite the absolute fallacious notion that anarchists hold that it's all a result of the state, enforced by the state, developed by the state.

Also, do you have any empirical evidence of how a "free" market would work without a government? Economists never seem to be able to give much in the way of actual evidence of their claims or distributive preferences.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:31 No.10478879

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:31 No.10478879

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>>10478806

and, of course, the price of fuel was at record lows.

They gained that market share precisely because they were better and cheaper than their competitors.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:31 No.10478885

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:31 No.10478885

Replies: >>10478958

>>10478841
A government is an entity

Anteater !!VyIROBcMkwf
02/21/13(Thu)00:31 No.10478887

Anteater !!VyIROBcMkwf 02/21/13(Thu)00:31 No.10478887

Replies: >>10478936 >>10478991 >>10479043

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>>10478707

>the completely free markets RESULTED in the monopolies.

You might want to read what I wrote closer.

The banking monopoly refers to the artificial restrictions that the State places on entry into the banking industry.

The patent monopoly refers to the artificial restrictions that the State places on entry into markets through patents.

The tariff monopoly refers to the artificial restrictions that the State places on entry into markets through tariffs.

The shipping monopoly refers to the giant subsidy that is State funded infrastructure.

These ***State interventions into the market*** are what concentrated capital into the hands of a few.

>there NO laws on businesses before that era

There were many, as I pointed out, and they all served to almost exclusively protect corporate interests.

>Anti Trust laws

Interestingly, the FDR era regulatory State and beyond arrived at the behest of corporations. They were failing to be maintained by purely private means (they were basically falling apart because of competition), and they lobbied the government to put more regulations into affect to insulate them from this competition. This is referred to as "regulatory capture."

>the corrupt was also the result of the monopolies LITERALLY buying out government

That's another mark AGAINST governments - corporations can lobby them to secure legal privilege.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:32 No.10478906

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:32 No.10478906

Replies: >>10479151

>>10478389
You are correct, and corrective measures need to be applied to stop the state sprawling into a behemoth.

However, if we can collectively agree that certain laws need to be enforced, it is reasonable to curtail a limited number of freedoms, to permit a judicial system.

What limits the financial industry? Laws and the necessary concentration of power to enforce them. I will concede that this is an enourmously difficult task, but it doesn't get any easier by eradicating the state entirely.

Honestly, a system of limited government will always emerge from the embryo of anarchy-capitalism. The ultimate solutions to the fundamentals give way to the natural formation of centralized power.

Why? Because every single civilization has predictably followed this transformation.

The problem now is we need to do some pruning, not cut down the entire tree. (To further my analogy, the homeland security branch has black-rot and must be removed)

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:32 No.10478921

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:32 No.10478921

>>10478789
Don't for get lower murder rate than the rest of Africa.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_murder_rate

If an illiterate, impoverished third world country can do statelessness, anyone can.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:33 No.10478936

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:33 No.10478936

Replies: >>10478994

>>10478887
The things you pointed out were not the major monopolies of that era.

the steel, rail, and oil monopolies were the private monopolies of the dark ages of our country

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:33 No.10478941

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:33 No.10478941

Replies: >>10478999

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>>10478841
I've already defined that for you. It is an entity that has a monopoly over violence and the ability to forcibly tax over a given region.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:33 No.10478958

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:33 No.10478958

>>10478885
So what is an entity?

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:33 No.10478960

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:33 No.10478960

Replies: >>10479173 >>10479270

>>10478860

A state is just a collection of people bound by some overruling contract to govern their behavior in exchange for stability.

>hurrr, b-but I'm syndo-anarchist capitalist, n-no states would be f-formed

What books have you been reading? Even Smith and Milton saw the need for a state. Have you been sucking Chomsky's dick again?

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:34 No.10478991

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:34 No.10478991

Replies: >>10479069

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>>10478887
>That's another mark AGAINST governments - corporations can lobby them to secure legal privilege.
government is evil because they take money from the HIGHLY MORAL AND GOOD private interests and do what those interests say

Anteater !!VyIROBcMkwf
02/21/13(Thu)00:34 No.10478994

Anteater !!VyIROBcMkwf 02/21/13(Thu)00:34 No.10478994

Replies: >>10479054

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>>10478936

The things I pointed out were "Tucker's Monopolies." They aren't actual businesses in the market that formed into monopolies. They're referencing regulations put in place via the State which allowed such inequity in wealth to happen. Please read what I write before you respond.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:34 No.10478999

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:34 No.10478999

Replies: >>10479045

>>10478941
This. But what about expatriates? The US can tax their income as well.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:36 No.10479043

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:36 No.10479043

Replies: >>10479199

>>10478887

If government is so valuable to large business, what makes you think that, once corporations reach a certain given strength, they do not collude to form a state or state-like entity to consolidate their power?

Oh wait, power only corrupts when it's strictly governmental in nature.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:36 No.10479045

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:36 No.10479045

Replies: >>10479136

>>10478999
What?

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:36 No.10479052

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:36 No.10479052

Replies: >>10479061

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>>10478851

>actually they price gouged the country

Give ONE example. Show me where they raised their price above what people would pay. Show me.

>they didn't. a lot of people starved. a lot of children too

OH GOD LAWL. Standard of living and INCREASED DURING THIS TIME.

PRECISELY BECAUSE OF INDUSTRIALIZATION.

Did I mention that real wages were rising too?

How in the fuck were people making unlivable wages if wages were rising?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilded_Age#Economic_growth

> For example, between 1865 and 1898, the output of wheat increased by 256%, corn by 222%, coal by 800% and miles of railway track by 567%.

MORE FOOD!

>From 1869 to 1879, the US economy grew at a rate of 6.8% for NNP (GDP minus capital depreciation) and 4.5% for NNP per capita. The economy repeated this period of growth in the 1880s, in which the wealth of the nation grew at an annual rate of 3.8%, while the GDP was also doubled. Real wages also increased greatly during the 1880s.

MORE MONEY!

Its called prosperity! Are you seriously suggesting that people were BETTER OFF in the pre-industrial stages?

>yea, unions are an important part of our country even do this day because they were constantly defeated and never did anything for any reason. nice try

Jesus Christ.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_union_busting_in_the_United_States#Union_busting_with_military_force

Look at this list. See how many instances of the state breaking up unions occurred. Are you going to tell me that the state is *GOOD* for unions?

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:36 No.10479054

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:36 No.10479054

Replies: >>10479199

>>10478994
Sorry, but the bad effects of the gilded age and following decades were due to the business monopolies and their abuse of workers, until said workers rose up and formed unions

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:36 No.10479056

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:36 No.10479056

Replies: >>10479082

I don't read books because I think for myself and don't need to repeat someone else's ideas to have an argument.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:36 No.10479061

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:36 No.10479061

Replies: >>10479190

>>10479052
fuck, so long nigger

Anteater !!VyIROBcMkwf
02/21/13(Thu)00:37 No.10479069

Anteater !!VyIROBcMkwf 02/21/13(Thu)00:37 No.10479069

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>>10478991

>government is evil because they take money from the HIGHLY MORAL AND GOOD private interests and do what those interests say

That is, in fact, not what I said at all. The question I'm raising is - rather, if corporations can receive more power by lobbying governments, shouldn't we do something to address that on the government side? These mega corporations aren't just popping up on their own - their riding to the top of their markets BECAUSE governments insulate them from competition.

I mean, I'm a socialist for fuck's sake. Don't give me that condescending, "HIGHLY MORAL AND GOOD private interests," crap.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:37 No.10479082

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:37 No.10479082

Replies: >>10479222

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>>10479056
You talking to anyone in particular?

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:37 No.10479096

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:37 No.10479096

Replies: >>10479146

>>10478851
By lowering prices. This is bad?

What?

Unions are technically cartels.
"It is a formal organization of producers and manufacturers that agree to fix prices, marketing, and production."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartel

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:39 No.10479136

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:39 No.10479136

Replies: >>10479224

>>10479045
The US can tax citizens not living in the country. Because they're assholes.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/09/american-expat-taxpayers-would-rather-ditch-citizenship-than-face-new-irs-rules_n_2094559.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expatriation_tax

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:39 No.10479146

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:39 No.10479146

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>>10479096
give him peter leeson, it's his only hope.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:39 No.10479151

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:39 No.10479151

Replies: >>10479261 >>10479715

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>>10478906

The problem, of course, is that the smaller a government starts, the larger it inevitably becomes, and the more people have an interest in maintaining it.

How do you go about paring it down when whenever you go to take the shears to it, a large group of people with vested interests in the part you're shearing are going to lobby like hell to keep it?

The problem is that there are no real incentives for the government to limit itself, and there's always a small, determined group there to resist your efforts at cutting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXlMFWmotSU

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:40 No.10479173

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:40 No.10479173

Replies: >>10479251 >>10479263

>>10478960
How do these overruling contracts come into being?

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:40 No.10479190

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:40 No.10479190

>>10479061
Deal with it. You know you're wrong. Standard oil drove down prices by being more efficient than everyone else.

Food production increased. Every bit of production increased.

And the government busted more strikes than the Pinkertons ever saw. Don't blame anyone for buying what the government is selling. Strike at the root, not the fruit.

Anteater !!VyIROBcMkwf
02/21/13(Thu)00:40 No.10479199

Anteater !!VyIROBcMkwf 02/21/13(Thu)00:40 No.10479199

Replies: >>10479334

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>>10479043

>what makes you think that, once corporations reach a certain given strength, they do not collude to form a state or state-like entity to consolidate their power?

You're assuming your premise in your basis - that without a State, firms could grow to incredibly large sizes and hold too much influence. You'll need to demonstrate this rather than just assuming it or you're guilty of circular reasoning.

>>10479054

>Sorry, but the bad effects of the gilded age and following decades were due to the business monopolies and their abuse of workers, until said workers rose up and formed unions

And I'm trying to tell you that businesses were able to become so monopolistic (although an actual monopoly never formed, just a few oligopolies) BECAUSE of State interventions into the market. I DO recognize that unions helped A LOT. Interestingly, many unions were organized by Anarchists who recognized the fact that the corporations were the way they were because of the State.

Once more, please read what I write before you respond.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:41 No.10479209

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:41 No.10479209

Replies: >>10479343

So if in an anarcho-capitalist society I need to hire my own police to protect by basic rights, what if I don't have the money to pay them? Can you really say anybody in such a society has any rights when actually having them is totally dependent on being able to pay some third party.

Anarcho-Capitalism is not anarchy, it is just chaos and it will quickly turn into feudalism. The state is not the great evil that ruins societies it is power, more accurately the concentration of power into the hands of the relatively few. Anarcho-Capitalism does absolutely nothing to put any check on this, in fact if anything it encourages it.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:41 No.10479222

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:41 No.10479222

>>10479082

>property existed before laws.

Heh.

The only way to ensure property stays private is through a state, or state-like governing contract to such, which requires coercion at some level.

>but wholly-applicable contracts over a populace that are enforced by coercion isn't a state, it's a syndicate!

The real problem anarchists have is with figuring out what they think a state is.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:41 No.10479224

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:41 No.10479224

Replies: >>10479379

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>>10479136
So? Why is this being discussed?
I think you missed a hyper link a couple posts back.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:42 No.10479251

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:42 No.10479251

>>10479173
Some dead guys signed a piece of paper in 1791 that says you belong to the government.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Treason
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain—that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."

I love that quote.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:42 No.10479261

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:42 No.10479261

Replies: >>10479434

>>10479151
because people are interested in other things like sex and music

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:42 No.10479263

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:42 No.10479263

>>10479173

Mutual agreement.

You know, that thing you anarchists think differentiates you so fully from statists.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:43 No.10479270

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:43 No.10479270

Replies: >>10479385

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>>10478960

Devil Z !VoonmBZbSs
02/21/13(Thu)00:44 No.10479301

Devil Z !VoonmBZbSs 02/21/13(Thu)00:44 No.10479301

Replies: >>10479442

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fuck free markets

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:45 No.10479332

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:45 No.10479332

Replies: >>10479393

File: 1361425511751.gif-(25 KB, 318x472, Benjamin Tucker 1.gif)

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You are not anarchists. Capitalism is a system built on privilege. It is antithetical to the idea of free markets. You are randroids. If you want to suck corporate dick and jack off to "free market miracles" like walmart, ge, raytheon, haliburton, etc. just call yourselves capitalists.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:45 No.10479334

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:45 No.10479334

Replies: >>10479422 >>10479529

>>10479199

>that without a State, firms could grow to incredibly large sizes and hold too much influence

Let's test it empirically instead.

Oh, wait, a market system has never lasted long enough outside of a state or state-like system to draw real conclusions.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:45 No.10479343

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:45 No.10479343

Replies: >>10479616

>>10479209
>implying police care about your rights

And establishing a government to prevent a government is self defeating. As well, competing security firms will discourage a monopoly.

And if society is so fucked up that people will rob you blind the first chance they get, that society is already compromised.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:45 No.10479351

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:45 No.10479351

Replies: >>10480733

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The one thing I find hilarious about laws attempting to regulate prices. They have such weird assumptions:

If your price is lower than everyone elses' its predatory pricing trying to drive them out of business.

If its higher than everyone else's, its price gouging and trying to exploit consumers.

If your price is exactly the same as everyone else's, then obviously you're collaborating with your competitors to fix prices.

So you literally can't win if the state decides your price is wrong.

Nevermind that the state has NO FUCKING IDEA what the 'proper' price is.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:46 No.10479379

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:46 No.10479379

>>10479224
Just throwing water on the "region" part to make its ridiculousness even more visible.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:46 No.10479384

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:46 No.10479384

Replies: >>10479413 >>10479471

I just wish people would stop not executing their interests

I miss the mongol days where if you didn't like someone you just cut their head off with a sword. Things were much simpler then

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:46 No.10479385

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:46 No.10479385

>>10479270

Then why are you here, exactly? You can reject the social contract anytime you wish by moving to Africa, the anarchist paradise.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:47 No.10479393

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:47 No.10479393

Replies: >>10479511

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>>10479332
Lemme guess, you're one of those left-libertarian fags, no?

Moved to New Hampshire yet?

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:47 No.10479407

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:47 No.10479407

Replies: >>10479485 >>10479515

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Hello My AnCap cousins. I'm glad to see a thread even though I consider myself a minarcho capitalist.

I see the need for a publicly owned service to enforce contracts. My perceived need for such an entity is the only reason I haven't embraced AnCap entirely.
It needn't be a governing body, but still a publicly owned service to enforce contracts.

I am curious as to how this would be replaced in true anarchocapitalism.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:47 No.10479413

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:47 No.10479413

>>10479384

Truly, it was a paradise.

Anteater !!VyIROBcMkwf
02/21/13(Thu)00:48 No.10479422

Anteater !!VyIROBcMkwf 02/21/13(Thu)00:48 No.10479422

>>10479334

>Oh, wait, a market system has never lasted long enough outside of a state or state-like system to draw real conclusions.

Very true. The modern conception of a market is a rather recent invention, and most Anarchist territories that have existed in recent history were based on Classical Anarchist (marketless) principles. It should be a sign of the inherent aggression in States that whenever an Anarchist territory crops up, things tend to go pretty well internally until a foreign State comes along after a few years and realizes that the Anarchists are a threat to their power (I'm looking at you, Bolsheviks).

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:48 No.10479434

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:48 No.10479434

Replies: >>10480238

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>>10479261

Partially, and you can't get them interested in anything else until the sex, music, and booze stop flowing.

Incidentally, this is why the state will work really fucking hard to keep the sex, music, and booze flowing right up until the system destructs.

"Bread and Circuses." look it up.

States will even collaborate closely with private business to keep the illusion up.

The biggest problem facing libertarians is the fact that people won't care until they have a damn good reason to.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:49 No.10479442

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:49 No.10479442

Replies: >>10479532

>>10479301
Cave men invented architecture, fire, art, the wheel, and tools. The basis of... Everything.

And at least three of those philosophers are communists and Ayn Rand was a statist.

So we're 3/4, even trying your hardest to slander.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:49 No.10479459

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:49 No.10479459

Replies: >>10479631

Private property (that is ownership of land and the means of production) is only possible with the assistance of the state. Property owners require the state to protect their property from people who may wish to use their property without permission. As this property is required for people to lead a decent life, these people will be legion in number. The property owner will attempt to force these people to pay the bulk of the fruits of their labours to them in return for the privelage of using their property. No reasonable man would accept such an arrangement, so it must be enforced by the state.

Anarcho-Capitalists, by removing the state, simply move the burden of providing violence in defence of property onto the property owner himself. In order to have private property in a stateless society large private armies would be required to defend it. And what realistically would there be to stop the commanders of these private armies (the property owners) for turning them towards other, more aggressive purposes? By removing the great Hobbesian leviathan that is the state you remove the possibility that property rights can be fairly and consistently applied. Property simply becomes whatever land or capital your particular band of hired thugs can keep control of. It is the complete collapse of any sort of rule of law. And without this it is not anarchy, it is chaos.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:49 No.10479471

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:49 No.10479471

Replies: >>10479499

>>10479384
so maybe instead of hiring a police force to imprison the man with the sword, you just try to be more likeable.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:50 No.10479485

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:50 No.10479485

>>10479407
Doesn't matter, government grows and concentrates power. The freest to begin with being the worst in the end. Rome, America.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:51 No.10479499

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:51 No.10479499

Replies: >>10479717

>>10479471

why should the man with a sword's judgement as to whether I am likeable or not give him the right to kill me?

what if I'm the man with a sword?

Though, power precedes all rights and privileges.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:51 No.10479511

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:51 No.10479511

>>10479393
I'm an individualist anarchist. I believe in a truly free market. This is not consistent with capitalism. A free market includes radical unionism, direct action and equal bargaining power between labor and capital. If you aren't a member of the iww don't talk to me about anarchism.

Anteater !!VyIROBcMkwf
02/21/13(Thu)00:51 No.10479515

Anteater !!VyIROBcMkwf 02/21/13(Thu)00:51 No.10479515

Replies: >>10479761

>>10479407

>It needn't be a governing body, but still a publicly owned service to enforce contracts.

Disputed Resolution Agencies (DROs) are pretty much private contract insurers. Basically, I want to contract with somebody. We go through a mutually agreed upon DRO, and for a fee, our contract is insured. If one of us flakes out, the other will be compensated by the DRO which will, in turn, seek remuneration from the one who broke the contract. If he pays up, all is well. If he refuses, his fees rise in the future (or maybe he's even refused service). This would drastically limit his or her ability to insure contracts with other people, which serves as a huge impetus to follow through with the contracts you start.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:51 No.10479516

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:51 No.10479516

Replies: >>10479592 >>10479630 >>10479671 >>10479884

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I want to know what you guys think of this theory I came up with. Find holes and what not.

The idea, I have always assumed to be an-cap friendly but the more I think about it the more I question.

The easiest transition I think into anarchy would be to put all cities up for auction. The highest bidder owns the area. From there, the land is his private property that he may do with what ever he wants. Lots of technicals and we finally get to contractual societies. If you want to be in an area, you must sign the contract.

This is not like social contract theory because the land is privately owned and to live there, you must sign a contract. Contracts would lay out law and could include taxation. It would state how long children born in the city were legally bound to their parents before needing to sign the contract themselves.

Before you respond... please think, I've put a lot of thought into this.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:51 No.10479529

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:51 No.10479529

Replies: >>10479603

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>>10479334

I think you're mixing up cause and effect.

Markets always precede the state.

State's don't create the stability that allow markets to happen.

Markets come first, and create the stability that causes and allows people to create a state.

States don't last very long without markets to leech off of.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:51 No.10479532

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:51 No.10479532

>>10479442

How do you know the cavemen didn't have cave-states?

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:53 No.10479592

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:53 No.10479592

Replies: >>10479644 >>10479680 >>10479742

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>>10479516

Would you allow people to own land communally?

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:54 No.10479603

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:54 No.10479603

>>10479529
fuckin' saved

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:54 No.10479616

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:54 No.10479616

Replies: >>10479777

>>10479343
So because the current arrangement isn't working exactly right, we should abandon it completely then? Answer my question: how are my rights supposed to be protected if I can't afford to hire a private police force to protect them. In what way do I have any rights if I need groups of armed men at my employ to enforce them. What differentiates Anarcho-Capitalism from simple, lawless chaos with competing bands of brigands dominating whoever is unfortunate enough to get in their way through force of arms.

Anteater !!VyIROBcMkwf
02/21/13(Thu)00:55 No.10479630

Anteater !!VyIROBcMkwf 02/21/13(Thu)00:55 No.10479630

Replies: >>10479934

>>10479516

>The easiest transition I think into anarchy would be to put all cities up for auction.

This is very similar to "privatization" in which the government sells off assets to private actors. This may seems like it's moving towards freer markets at face value, but ultimately, the private actors who end up buying these assets are just getting a huge advantage over other competitors in their market because of the State. You get a situation where corporations who are large because of the State are able to buy even more assets directly from the State.

I think more feasible solutions to a peaceful transition would be dual power and counter-economics. At a point, workers could take control of businesses operated by the State or operated through proxy by the State, because by the homesteading principle, they're the ones who have an actual right to it.

Anonymous
02/21/13(Thu)00:55 No.10479631

Anonymous 02/21/13(Thu)00:55 No.10479631

Replies: >>10479710 >>10479738 >>10480014

>>10479459
If as soon as the government disappears society turns into a bunch of blood drinking psychos, that society was rotten to begin with.

See alos: Kowloon, the densest 1.5 acres on Earth, voluntarily founded and populated.

Anarchist Pennsylvania,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy_in_the_United_States
http://xroads.virginia.edu/~cap/penn/pnind.html

The EZLN.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapatista_Army_of_National_Liberation

Then there's the Shinmin and Makhno anarchist regions that were betrayed by the commies.

Somalia's low murder rate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_murder_rate
And progress without a state.
http://www.peterleeson.com/better_off_stateless.pdf

As well as Iceland.
https://notendur.hi.is//~bthru/iep.htm

You are entirely incorrect. It can work, has worked, and will work.