Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:30 No.10912711

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:30 No.10912711

*the most fucked up _thing_

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:30 No.10912717

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:30 No.10912717

We already passed Obama care, baby.

what more do you want?

>tfw it makes it illegal to NOT have insurance
>tfw it won't change anything

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:32 No.10912779

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:32 No.10912779

Replies: >>10912989 >>10915785

>>10912683 (OP)
>most fucked up

Nope. Letting millions of immigrants fuck your country up, live off welfare, and generally treat your citizens like shit is far, far worse.

Try again, Eurobro.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:32 No.10912789

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:32 No.10912789

Replies: >>10912933 >>10921429 >>10926641

Yeah, it's pretty fucked up.

I recently got an injury and it was either go to the hospital or die, so I chose the Hospital. Now I have no way to pay the bills.

You might as well just kill yourself if you get a life threatening injury in murrica.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:32 No.10912800

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:32 No.10912800

Replies: >>10912816

you're right which is why the GOP wanted everyone to buy health insurance

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:32 No.10912804

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:32 No.10912804

Replies: >>10915642

>>10912683 (OP)
Why should i give you med and med care fo free when they cost considerable amount of money to produce? If everything was for free economy would collapsed

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:33 No.10912816

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:33 No.10912816

Replies: >>10912888

>>10912800
>Obamacare
>GOP

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:34 No.10912840

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:34 No.10912840

emergency rooms are required by law to give medical attention to everyone in emergencies regardless of their situation

you're basing this shitty thread off some rumor you heard, and you were gulible enough to believe it like the dumbshit sheep you are

captcha: tpysku Lamb

sage

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:35 No.10912888

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:35 No.10912888

>>10912816

individual mandate was originally a republican idea

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:35 No.10912898

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:35 No.10912898

File: 1362519345653.jpg-(52 KB, 550x529, 1359956695205.jpg)

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>You actually let people die in waiting rooms
If they can't get into the emergency room in time, yeah, they could die.

>implying you can be denied emergency treatment at a hospital
Is OP a serious post?

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:37 No.10912933

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:37 No.10912933

>>10912789
>You might as well just kill yourself if you get a life threatening injury in murrica.
Unless you are gainfully employed and have delicious health insurance.
>feels good man

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:37 No.10912939

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:37 No.10912939

Replies: >>10913138 >>10913239

File: 1362519432906.png-(385 KB, 500x415, 1349618725360.png)

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>Defend yourselves

From what? It's true.

What you're really complaining about is that we don't share your French enlightenment thinking, with the belief that with the right amount of education and wise government effort, you can eliminate all social evils and make conflict the exception rather than the rule.

We find this train of thought to be utterly naive and at odds with reality, as evidenced by thousands of years of human history. You're simply trying to wish away all the uncomfortable harsh truths about the world.

We base our understanding of the nature of conflict and social evils in either the Augustinian doctrine of original sin or a Hobbesian theory of scarcity. We freely admit that we tend to be pessimists when it comes to human nature and society. We don't think you can eliminate conflict or make peace the norm. We hold realistic expectations in what we can achieve, protecting and saving those that we can within our capacity to do, rather than over exerting ourselves to achieve what is clearly impossible.

Let's not spin out new laws and bureaucracies when we have what we need in place already. And let's not seek utopia and thereby make the perfect the enemy of the good.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:38 No.10912986

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:38 No.10912986

If you are in urgent need of medical care the hospital can't turn you away, it's been like this for years.

Educate yourself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Medical_Treatment_and_Active_Labor_Act

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:39 No.10912989

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:39 No.10912989

File: 1362519540042.jpg-(16 KB, 426x284, 69cfa33e_0a37_4ad6_a754_0(...).jpg)

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>>10912779
>Europe treating citizens like shit
>Americans letting citizens die
I would rather die than get treated like shit too.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:39 No.10912993

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:39 No.10912993

>>10912683 (OP)
>You actually let people die in waiting rooms, if they don't have a medical insurance?
The sad part is that Europoors probably actually believe this.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:39 No.10912997

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:39 No.10912997

Do people not die in Europe?

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:42 No.10913119

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:42 No.10913119

You can't be denied emergency treatment noob.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:43 No.10913138

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:43 No.10913138

Replies: >>10913304

>>10912939
>Justifying basing society itself on greed.

A bit lying saying why should we try to fight illnesses? There'll be always be illnesse, right?

You never reach Utopía, it's just the goal you walk towards, and trying, you do advance.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:46 No.10913233

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:46 No.10913233

Replies: >>10913288

Hospitals can't legally turn u away. Not that they did before that.

And the high cost of healthcare is due to regulation and one union having a monopoly on doctors.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:46 No.10913239

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:46 No.10913239

>>10912939

>with the right amount of education and wise government effort, you can eliminate all social evils and make conflict the exception rather than the rule

> let's not seek utopia and thereby make the perfect the enemy of the good

yeah we are pretty stupid

>clearly impossible
>clearly impossible
>clearly impossible
>clearly impossible
get sick? go bankrupt
sorry; anything better than this is clearly impossible

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:47 No.10913271

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:47 No.10913271

I'd rather have money than people taking all the parking spaces. Fuck you I got mine.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:47 No.10913288

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:47 No.10913288

Replies: >>10913395

>>10913233

No the high cost of healthcare is because hospitals have to raise prices to cover the losses from uninsured people, or people who just don't pay their bills. Because a hospital 'bill' is actually more like a request or an offer, you can haggle about it, etc.

Only 15% of total money billed is actually received in a hospital. I don't mean 15% of bills I just mean if you add all the money for a year that a hospital bills people, they get 15% of that.

The fault actually lies with immigrants, uninsured, etc.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:48 No.10913304

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:48 No.10913304

Replies: >>10913467 >>10913577

File: 1362520096009.jpg-(38 KB, 212x238, photo.jpg)

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>>10913138
But Europes system is far from superior.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:49 No.10913330

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:49 No.10913330

>>10912683 (OP)
>You actually let people die in waiting rooms, if they don't have a medical insurance?

Stopped reading there.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:49 No.10913347

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:49 No.10913347

Replies: >>10913376 >>10913478 >>10913564

took an 80 year old neighbor with chest discomfort to emergency. We waited 6 hours. They spent 10 minutes with him and sent him home. He had Medicare.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:50 No.10913376

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:50 No.10913376

>>10913347
did he died

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:50 No.10913395

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:50 No.10913395

>>10913288
The problem is multi pronged. All related to the lack if a free market.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:52 No.10913429

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:52 No.10913429

The only reason I support helmet and seatbelt laws is because when Bobby smashes his head on a tree and costs taxpayers $4,700,000 and then dies anyway after 2 months in the ICU, that could have maybe been prevented. I don't THINK we should have those laws, but the reason we do is an economic one. The solution?

People should be able to sign a contract to let them not use seatbelts or helmets, if they agree to not have any public/tax money go towards medical care if they have an accident. Private insurance can still cover you I guess if you're employed. Yes this probably means not treating a ton of them or dumping their bodies off on the sidewalk. But hell it's their right to not wear a helmet so it should not be my obligation to have tax dollars pay for his accident.

Imagine how we could clean up the gene pool?

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:52 No.10913433

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:52 No.10913433

Replies: >>10913488

>tfw Doctors have to pay 60% of their profits for insurance (specifically malpractice due to "Lawsuit America")
>still have to pay for nurses, equipment etc after that 60% is taken out
>people wonder why prices go up

>Eye industry is privatized and has had huge leaps and bounds in terms of technology and the prices for laser surgery etc

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:53 No.10913467

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:53 No.10913467

>>10913304
>pretty much same results
>in Europe everyone gets the treatment regardless of wealth
How is that not superior?

Also, in Europe people don't die if they can't pay for a heart operation or whatever. That's pretty superior in my opinion.

I just don't get why americans are so against public healthcare. Why do they prefer someone's profits over accessibility and efficency?

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:53 No.10913478

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:53 No.10913478

>>10913347

So he probably didn't have ACS, not a big deal.

What did they say, and how did he describe it, etc. Without history your post is useless.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:53 No.10913488

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:53 No.10913488

Replies: >>10913580

>>10913433
>implying that malpractice isn't a real thing

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:54 No.10913504

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:54 No.10913504

>>10912683 (OP)
>You actually let people die in waiting rooms, if they don't have a medical insurance?
How do you come to the conclusion that this happens in the US?

sage
03/05/13(Tue)16:54 No.10913516

sage 03/05/13(Tue)16:54 No.10913516

Replies: >>10913571

>>10912683 (OP)
>let people die in waiting rooms, if they don't have a medical insurance
You have to accept that this is a hyperbole used by critics of US policy. It is not intended to be serious. Hospitals in the USA must accept patients who are in critical condition, even those without medical insurance, before others who do have health insurance. The problem is that they chase you around with debt collectors for the rest of your life.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:55 No.10913551

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:55 No.10913551

>>10912683 (OP)
Their fucking fault for not having health insurance.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:55 No.10913557

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:55 No.10913557

Replies: >>10913624

>>10912683 (OP)
>I don't have the money to pay for a commodety

>WAAAH WHADDYA MEAN I CANT HAVE IT FOR FREE?!?!?!

>That is THE most fucked up I can even IMAGINE.

nigger please

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:55 No.10913564

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:55 No.10913564

>>10913347
In yurop you'd have waited 1 hour, then he would've been tested for various things, electrocardiogram and all that shit, then he'd be sent home with some free painkillers.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:55 No.10913571

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:55 No.10913571

Replies: >>10913688 >>10913865

>>10913516

>he problem is that they chase you around with debt collectors for the rest of your life.

Not seeing the problem. Why should I pay for a $100,000 hospital stay because someone ate, drank, and smoked their whole life?

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:55 No.10913577

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:55 No.10913577

Replies: >>10913608 >>10913751 >>10925048

File: 1362520542269.jpg-(15 KB, 180x148, herpaderpaderpderp.jpg)

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>>10913304
Who was talking about Europe?

I'm from Finland. We have free healthcare, for EVERYONE.

So if you get sick, you won't be in debt forever.

And no, a gunshot wound patient probably won't die in your emergencyrooms, but a patient with cancer will.
Or maybe someone just has an agressive stomach ulcer, which leads to the patient not being able to eat, leading to vitamin deficiencies/anemia/other shit like that, which will compromise the immunity system and with the ulcer easily infected, you're pretty much dead, or just very, very fucking sick for a looong time.

Unless you choose a lifetime or debt.

Really, it boils down to that selection: lifetime of debt, or death.

Think about that, you fat disgusting pigs.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:55 No.10913580

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:55 No.10913580

>>10913488
>implying I implied that
>implying it's not affirmative action chosen doctors doing most of the malpratice

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:56 No.10913598

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:56 No.10913598

Replies: >>10913671

File: 1362520570985.jpg-(40 KB, 453x576, You+really+think+someone+(...).jpg)

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>letting people die in waiting rooms
>America

Nope. It doesn't happen. If it does happen, it's a freak accident and you shouldn't take some anon's anecdotal evidence as fact on America's current medical system.

By law, they hospitals are required to treat any and all cases that walk into their doors, unless it's either elective or their fine.

pls sage

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:56 No.10913608

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:56 No.10913608

Replies: >>10914063

>>10913577

That isn't how a gastric ulcer works, idiot.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:56 No.10913624

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:56 No.10913624

Replies: >>10913674 >>10917000

>>10913557
>healthcare is a commodity
fullretard.jpg

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:58 No.10913671

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:58 No.10913671

>>10913598
>illegal immigrants are taken care of immediately
>legal Americans without insurance are left to die

soon
shouldn't checked some privilege

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:58 No.10913674

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:58 No.10913674

Replies: >>10913950

>>10913624
>healthcare doesn't cost money

>something costing money doesn't make it a commodity

What your feeling is premature enlightenment, friend. You're about to be redpilled.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:58 No.10913688

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:58 No.10913688

Replies: >>10913964

>>10913571
Everyone pays taxes, not just you.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)16:59 No.10913751

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)16:59 No.10913751

Replies: >>10914063

File: 1362520787931.jpg-(21 KB, 239x211, photo.jpg)

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>>10913577
Better to be broke than dead.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:00 No.10913765

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:00 No.10913765

I don't have health insurance and barely any assets except for my car. I PURPOSEFULLY try to injure other people with my car, while pulling a guise that it was not my fault. The look on their faces when I ram into the side of them is priceless. The look on their face when they find I don't have health or car insurance or money is even better. I've done this to a couple people now and have only had my license suspended for 90 days. Once that's over I'll be on the road again :D

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:02 No.10913865

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:02 No.10913865

>>10913571
because that 100k is nothing when they croak and stop collecting government retirement money.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:02 No.10913879

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:02 No.10913879

>>10912683 (OP)
confirmed for knowing nothing about emergency care laws

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:04 No.10913950

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:04 No.10913950

Replies: >>10914062 >>10914125

>>10913674
>hurrr redpill
Let me explain socialism to you in a very simple way:

Let's pretend we are 10 cavemen, and we manage to produce about 10 breads per day. Now, let's imagine 2 of our guys had a bad harvest this year, drought you know, and they don't have any bread. We can either let them starve to death or we can get socialist and each of us give them a little piece of our bread, sharing 8 breads among 10 people, that's 80% of a bread per person, so nobody dies.

If we go socialist, next year it'll still be 10 of us. Else it'll be 8. Now extrapolate.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:04 No.10913964

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:04 No.10913964

Replies: >>10924764

>>10913688
why should anyone fucking pay for it, besides the patient?

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:04 No.10913980

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:04 No.10913980

Replies: >>10914198

I'm a ENT surgery resident and I support a single-payer healthcare system...in theory. It won't work here though.

I doubt the US could implement it. We need to severely cut back on the level of bureaucracy, not add to it. I think if someone created a universal healthcare system we would just triple administrative costs and be in more debt.

At least the US schools create the best doctors and specialists. With few celebrity exceptions in other countries. There is a reason rich Saudi princes will fly to Mayo or MD Anderson.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:06 No.10914062

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:06 No.10914062

>>10913950
>Comparing a group of 10 dumb fuck cavemen, to a complex national economy that should be run by free trade.

You. Dun. Goofed.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:06 No.10914063

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:06 No.10914063

Replies: >>10914198 >>10920802

File: 1362521207524.jpg-(215 KB, 674x506, citizen_of_the_greatest_c(...).jpg)

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>>10913608
That's THE worst strawman, ever.

>>10913751
>I argument by posting pictures you can't even read and claiming they're a verifiable source of information
>look mom I can 4chan me!


Really.

If you get severly sick as a US citizen, you have exactly two choices:
1) Take a chance of being cured, leading to a LIFETIME OF DEBT TO THE POWERS THAT BE
or
2) DIE


Nice going 'murica.
Can't you see you're just being farmed?

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:07 No.10914088

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:07 No.10914088

Replies: >>10914179 >>10921002

>>10912683 (OP)
>You actually let people die in waiting rooms, if they don't have a medical insurance?


No. We let people die in waiting rooms waiting behind all the illegal mexicans getting free health care because a wetback with a papercut is more of a priority customer than some fucking taxpaying gringo with a heart attack.

And I am not joking either. Doubt it? Come to Texas. Insurance or no insurance, your ass is waiting behind the Mexicans.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:08 No.10914125

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:08 No.10914125

Replies: >>10914978

>>10913950
Sure I'd share my bread. But that would be volunteerism. I'm sharing it because I'm not an asshole. BUT in a socialist society, nanny government would come to my house, point a gun to my head and demand that I give the bread. This is what taxes are. Don't want to pay? LOL FUCK YOU SOCIALISM.

There's a great feeling that you get when you give. There's no great feeling when you force other people at gun point to give for you. And when you fight for socialism that's what you're fighting for.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:09 No.10914179

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:09 No.10914179

Replies: >>10914260

>>10914088
Wow. I really didn't an argument from there even when I tried. I just got the fact that you hate mexicans.

Now go play racist somewhere else, adults are talking.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:09 No.10914198

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:09 No.10914198

Replies: >>10914293 >>10914491 >>10914564

>>10914063

>>10913980 here

If you are poor you can sign up for medicaid.
If you are 65 with any health status, or under 65 with a disability you can get medicare.
If you are a veteran or any family of a veteran you can get TriCare.

All of these cover hospital stays and surgeries and cost almost nothing (I am talking like under $100 for something that might be a few hundred thousand to the govt). And almost every academic or public center is forced to take these people.

Most people without insurance are horribly ignorant and they come in sick and the social workers have to get them set up with one of these public plans. It doesn't delay anything life-saving.

There are plenty of options. Most people who get screwed are people with private insurance who hit 'spending caps' but Obamacare does away with a lot of that.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:10 No.10914232

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:10 No.10914232

Amerifat here. OP is unfortunatly absolutely correct. We could easily have the world's best public healthcare and it wouldn't cost us a cent over what we have now. Here's proof:

(Before you watch, keep in mind we already pay ~40% of our incomes in taxes, and close to 60% once you factor in sales and property tax. We just have a shitty system.) Here's the proof:

(Oh, and I'm libertarian, but as long as we pay ~50% in taxes, we should demand something for it.)

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=18d_1344590971

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:11 No.10914260

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:11 No.10914260

>>10914179

>mexican detected

it's true. Deal with it.

ennui !!r1XrQP07hRU
03/05/13(Tue)17:11 No.10914293

ennui !!r1XrQP07hRU 03/05/13(Tue)17:11 No.10914293

Replies: >>10914451 >>10914491

>>10914198
>If you are poor you can sign up for medicaid.

you have to be really poor in some states to qualify for medicaid

in florida you cannot have more than $2,000 in assets

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:12 No.10914299

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:12 No.10914299

dont forget the cost of medicines in the USA!! you have to pay at least 5000 dollars each month for a poor treatment of multiple sclerosis!! you canpay thousands of dollars in tests and talking to medics that at the end know nothing of what you have!!yet medics can earn up to half a millions each year!!

murrica third world country full of greedy scum!

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:12 No.10914305

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:12 No.10914305

>>10912683 (OP)
but thats fucking wrong. emergency rooms must treat by federal law. nice try fag 0/10

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:15 No.10914451

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:15 No.10914451

Replies: >>10915158

>>10914293

where do those people live?

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:15 No.10914465

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:15 No.10914465

Replies: >>10914703 >>10916499

File: 1362521734103.jpg-(33 KB, 500x354, disgust.jpg)

33 KB JPG

I will still repeat my argument why you must be the most fucked up nation on Earth. Even so than the third world countries.

You get so sick you need medical attention, even though not immediately.

You have two choices:

1) LIFETIME OF DEBT
2) DEATH


I could break my fucking back, get cancer, malaria and lose a fucking kidney and I'd still get everything taken care of for free.
You know why?
Because we don't do business on other peoples health.

Sure you can say that all that shit is costly, but it isn't, unless you make is business, which is what you (the most retarded country in the world, just to recap) have done.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:16 No.10914491

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:16 No.10914491

>>10914198

Also do you know how much a hospital decides something 'costs'? Why it's the government. The government sets arbitrary prices on how much it will reimburse you for an operation, a day on a ventilator, ICU bed, whatever. There are enormous price lists.

Private insurances are usually reimbursed a altered % of this. So medicare say pays $1,000, private insurance might pay $1,000 plus Y%.

If the government got their shit together and everything was not based on weird medicare prices, costs could actually settle.

>>10914293

Almost everyone I see is just too lazy to bother looking into any insurance offered by the government, almost everyone qualifies for something.

Here are the ACTUAL problems that need to be fixed:
>People not having insurance, or unable to obtain insurance
>People skipping out on paying at all
>People abusing ED and EMT services
>Government price lists for reimbursement
>Private practice doctors working 2 days a week

Then prices could come to reasonable levels.

tl;dr government + ignorant people have caused this.

And no this is a different issue from say a pharma company charging for a 8,000% profit on a patent-protected new chemotherapy drug. That shit is fucked up too but we're talking about basic hospital costs.

Why does it cost like $200 for an EKG? I mean shit I know how to use the machines. They take a month of everyone who got EKGs, how much the government paid, how many people DIDN'T pay, and then calculate how much each EKG needs to 'cost' in order to exactly break even.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:16 No.10914507

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:16 No.10914507

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/03/05/japanese-man-dies-after-being-turned-away-from-25-hospitals/

Jap dies after being rejected 36 times from 25 hospitals while in an ambulance. Japan has universal health care.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:17 No.10914564

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:17 No.10914564

Replies: >>10914807

File: 1362521854606.jpg-(48 KB, 416x500, brohug.jpg)

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>>10914198
Wow. An actually nice answer that actually broadens my views as a non-american.

Thank you, sir. You have made my day.

-OP

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:20 No.10914703

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:20 No.10914703

>>10914465
you forgot
3.) TAKE OUT LOAN
4.) CHARITY
5.) INSURANCE

there is no such thing as a right to a tangible good or service.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:22 No.10914807

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:22 No.10914807

Replies: >>10914898 >>10915042 >>10917446

>>10914564

np

It is screwed up and there are people who are too 'rich' to quality for medicaid based on the poverty level where they live but are poor as shit.

Obamacare is going to fix some of the large issues with insurance in general such as:
>Not selling insurance to you if you have a 'pre-existing condition'
>Annual or even lifetime spending limits (a million dollars for a year looks like a lot....until you get in a serious accident)

The ultimate goal needs to be twofold.
1. Create a better pricing structure and get rid of the EXTREME amount of overhead and administrator costs. The hospital does not need giant armies of people sitting at desks handling billing and shit. If we standardized billing practices we would not need 30 fucking different ways to bill the same thing to 30 companies.
2. Then by whatever method have everyone be insured, thus spreading out the actual costs of a surgery, complication, car accident, end-of-life cancer care, across the entire population. Now instead of people having 'spike' costs of $500,000, that cost is spread among everyone. Not socialism but insurance is vaguely ineffective because the cost is not really spread atm.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:24 No.10914898

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:24 No.10914898

>>10914807
best way to get rid of overhead costs is to get the govt involved, right?

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:26 No.10914978

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:26 No.10914978

Replies: >>10917493 >>10918203

>>10914125
So you, and most people, would give, except if the gubmint demands it? That just sounds like you don't want to give shit. If you agree that sharing and cooperation are good and necessary, why the fuck oppose it because EVIL SOCIALISM??

And some people don't want to give, but sure want to take. The people who whine about taxes enjoy public services like everyone else. Do they go to live alone in the mountains? Fuck no. They complain about taxes because "fuck niggers" while enjoying the state-paid comforts of modern civilization. Since we can't force the people who don't want to pay taxes to not use tax-paid stuff, as they would fucking die, and that's against socialism, we have to forcibly tax them, which is, as you yourself agreed, ultimately good for society.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:27 No.10915042

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:27 No.10915042

Replies: >>10915082 >>10915274

>>10914807
The armies of overhead were created in part to ensure compliance with burdensome regulation.

You can't insure a pre-existing condition. That is like betting on red after the roulette ball is already on black. You can provide medical care however, but this throws the burden of that person onto an insurance company to manage, rather than the traditional public dole managed by the government. Insurance will look like the bad guy and the feds can slink away.

The incentive for a private citizen to buy insurance will drop to zero if they know they will get medial care anyhow. You would be afool to sign up until you have a pre-existing condition. May as well keep that hundred bucks a month and spend it on cigs and cream filled sponge cakes.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:28 No.10915082

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:28 No.10915082

File: 1362522509174.jpg-(181 KB, 592x591, 1355599262501.jpg)

181 KB JPG

>>10915042
Forgot pic

ennui !!r1XrQP07hRU
03/05/13(Tue)17:30 No.10915158

ennui !!r1XrQP07hRU 03/05/13(Tue)17:30 No.10915158

>>10914451
that doesn't include their home, but obviously you have to be extremely poor to qualify

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:32 No.10915274

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:32 No.10915274

Replies: >>10915607

>>10915042

In an ideal world, I agree with you.

But the fact is every single dollar of healthcare given to uninsured/emergency/poor/immigrant patients ends up just being taken from taxes ANYWAY. The only thing that could lower costs is widespread insurance and a decrease in overhead.

We already are paying for all this shit.

The reason that costs would go down is something like:
>Person needs dialysis for failing kidneys
>Costs $X for dialysis 3 times a week
>Instead because no insurance or money, comes into ED once a week and stays for dialysis and diuretics and drops 10L, costs $20X.

This is extremely common.

Having a system where people could have preventative care and stuff like that would lower costs.

Although, I don't think I should be responsible for people being fat and having health complications. That pisses me off.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:33 No.10915307

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:33 No.10915307

And then Jesus said unto them, "I cannot heal you, for this is a pre-existing condition."

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:34 No.10915332

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:34 No.10915332

>Muh feels!!!!11one111
>>>slab city
hippie faggot

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:35 No.10915408

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:35 No.10915408

>>10912683 (OP)
While you've seriously skewed reality to favor your opinion, I'm going to have to say this: We've had the system for thousands of years--you pay for goods and services. You don't get them because people feel sorry for you.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:40 No.10915607

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:40 No.10915607

Replies: >>10915814

>>10915274
We don't have to pay for it. The church used to provide charity, as did ones family and social groups, to people who deserved it (key here, these people knew the person in question, so knew if they deserved it, far more than a bureaucrat ever will be capable).

If we left private insurance free, you would get insurance and be placed in a group and charged based on your risks, not be paying for the fat smokers who drive motorcycles.

That said, if universal healthcare is mandated, it should at least be an upfront federal program, not a dodge to hide behind insurance companies. I imagine when it all comes crashing down, every senator will point and blame the insurance companies, instead of themselves for trying to do the impossible.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:41 No.10915642

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:41 No.10915642

Replies: >>10915912

>>10912804
A lot of medical care is expensive because you can't just go on WebMD or whatever and self-diagnose. You need to get a prescription, which requires going to a doctor, and not everyone can be a doctor, you need a license. Then there's patent law which precludes others from manufacturing certain chemicals, further increasing the price. Then there's the fact that you can be put into a hospital without your consent because you went into a heart attack or whatever and then be charged whatever they want to charge you without any negotiation.

Get back to me when we fix all these restrictions on my personal decision-making power. Until then, my inability to afford healthcare is as much society's fault if not more than it is my own.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:43 No.10915718

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:43 No.10915718

Replies: >>10916065

i agree op. in order to progress society, we must let the stupid and lazy live and not die off.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:44 No.10915785

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:44 No.10915785

>>10912779
>Letting millions of immigrants fuck your country up, live off welfare, and generally treat your citizens like shit is far, far worse.
>Try again, Eurobro.

>implying mexicans are sailing to europe

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:45 No.10915814

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:45 No.10915814

Replies: >>10916182

>>10915607
>We don't have to pay for it.

Let me clarify. The problem is that the government and federal laws force places to spend money on people who are not properly or at all insured.

Unless we reverse laws like mandating emergency care for people regardless of insurance (see OP), the fact is that all costs incurred not paid by insurance hit taxpayers anyway.

We SHOULDN'T have to pay for it, but federal laws end up making us pay for it. I even said in my earlier post that I support a universal healthcare plan, but the US will only add layers and layers to the shitty system we have and all this weird Obamacare shit involving private insurance companies is ridiculous.

Unless we had a massive shift overnight in healthcare law, it won't work. We would need a 'jump' to universal coverage and not this slow crawl that we kind of have now. The end goal might be similar but the process will make the slow crawl fail.

I don't think we disagree with each other in principle, I'm just being realistic that all this lost money is costing us taxpayers regardless.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:46 No.10915879

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:46 No.10915879

Replies: >>10915982

>>10912683 (OP)
>I have the right to be served by other people!
>Muh positive liberties

No. If you can't pay for a service provided through the time and labor of someone else, they're not obligated to serve you. You are not their master.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:47 No.10915912

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:47 No.10915912

Replies: >>10916086

File: 1362523633950.png-(65 KB, 640x400, 1362073684056.png)

65 KB PNG

>>10915642
This. The AMA and related have set up a castle around themselves to restrict entry and raise their value, much like a guild or union. Those regulations need to be torn asunder. I don't need to a see a doctor if I have a cough. I don't need a surgeon with 15 years of education when I want a wart removed. Hell, a normal bone fracture could be solved with an x-ray specialist and a guy who has some practice with fiberglass.

ennui !!r1XrQP07hRU
03/05/13(Tue)17:48 No.10915982

ennui !!r1XrQP07hRU 03/05/13(Tue)17:48 No.10915982

Replies: >>10916198

>>10915879
by law they are obligated

hope that helps

Zyzz .B0tdY9xNk
03/05/13(Tue)17:49 No.10916003

Zyzz .B0tdY9xNk 03/05/13(Tue)17:49 No.10916003

Replies: >>10916031

Bar owners of the world, defend yourselves.

You actually let people sit sober in the bar because they can't pay for drinks?

So no money = no drunken escapades

That is THE most fucked up thing I can even IMAGINE

You live in a society where money is more important than the ability of others to party.

ennui !!r1XrQP07hRU
03/05/13(Tue)17:50 No.10916031

ennui !!r1XrQP07hRU 03/05/13(Tue)17:50 No.10916031

Replies: >>10916330

>>10916003
don't post again

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:51 No.10916065

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:51 No.10916065

Replies: >>10916536

>>10915718
In order to progress you need to assist your fellow citizens to progress. If you want to get up a stair, you need to get both legs up it, to start climbing the next stair. Currently, America only have one foot on the stair before the next stair. If you want to climb the next stair (progress) you need to finish getting up the one before it.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:51 No.10916086

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:51 No.10916086

Replies: >>10916310

>>10915912
I'm the guy you're responding to. I'm not an anarcho-capitalist, but the points I raised above were about how our current regulation-set inflates the price of medical attention out the wazoo.

I actually have very socialist views on the subject. In many cases, we can reduce the cost of medicine to the point where it's so cheap it's basically free, and we can just give it away, but we'd have to end the War on Drugs and suppress pharmaceutical lobbying for that to happen.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:53 No.10916167

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:53 No.10916167

Replies: >>10916307

Just give them a fake name and skip the bill.I have done that like 5 times

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:53 No.10916182

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:53 No.10916182

>>10915814
I think we understand each other, and have some similarities.

However, we diverge where I see the solution in rolling back those laws that put the burden on us as taxpayers. The AMA fucked us all a long time ago by managing to get paid from our pockets for work that used to be charity.

The proposition of a universal system to me is just superior to obamacare, which I see as a twisted dodge, like you. I do not however desire either of them.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:54 No.10916198

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:54 No.10916198

Replies: >>10916322

>>10915982
By law slaves were once held as property, too.

Hope that helps.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:56 No.10916307

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:56 No.10916307

Replies: >>10916373

>>10916167
You'll have to make sure you don't carry ID on you.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:56 No.10916310

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:56 No.10916310

Replies: >>10916947

>>10916086
Not meaning to imply you were, I am.

I agree that the current regulation set increases the cost of healthcare.

I do not have your socialist views however. We seek the same end, thing being so cheap they are nearly free. But the means to that end, I see them in the same ones that made many modern machines available to nearly everyone. Example:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125875892887958111.html

ennui !!r1XrQP07hRU
03/05/13(Tue)17:57 No.10916322

ennui !!r1XrQP07hRU 03/05/13(Tue)17:57 No.10916322

Replies: >>10916377 >>10916436 >>10916973 >>10924584

>>10916198
why do you make these comparisons?

how do you suggest we determine whether someone can pay for medical care in an emergency situation?

Zyzz .B0tdY9xNk
03/05/13(Tue)17:57 No.10916330

Zyzz .B0tdY9xNk 03/05/13(Tue)17:57 No.10916330

Replies: >>10916377 >>10917123

>>10916031
Nunu pls.

Why should someone else's time and services be given to you because you can't afford it.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)17:58 No.10916373

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)17:58 No.10916373

Replies: >>10923861

>>10916307
I do, Healthcare should be free so i have no problem fucking over people with health insurance

ennui !!r1XrQP07hRU
03/05/13(Tue)17:58 No.10916377

ennui !!r1XrQP07hRU 03/05/13(Tue)17:58 No.10916377

Replies: >>10916576

>>10916330
answer my question >>10916322

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:00 No.10916436

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:00 No.10916436

Replies: >>10916552

>>10916322
1. Cash on hand 2. A special line of credit (card) for medical purposes 3. Special companies that arise to make immediate medical loans in E.R.s, much like bail bonds 4. You don't, and just make sure the courts enforce medical bills on individuals like all other unpaid services

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:00 No.10916440

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:00 No.10916440

>>10912683 (OP)
That is the way the world works and why we will never truly achieve anything as a society.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:00 No.10916455

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:00 No.10916455

>>10912683 (OP)


I don't think this is accurate. I'm sure it DOES happen, but not because of the reasons you are citing.

I've never heard of anyone being turned away in the ER at ANY hospital.

In fact, there are federal funds prepared for each state to pay for the type of people you describe.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:01 No.10916499

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:01 No.10916499

>>10914465
>1) LIFETIME OF DEBT

Bankruptcy exists for a reason. The fact that you may "lose the house" is only reason #1,293 that you shouldn't keep your primary equity in your home. Keep your investments in protected assets like a 401k or IRA. Hide your TVs and consumer electronics at a family members house. Declare bankruptcy, wipe the slate clean, and rent for 7 years before buying a new home. Your long term assets for retirement are protected.

It should be stated, this doesn't affect the poor. This affects the middle class that didn't understand their health plans that had low annual maximums. They were ecstatic that they had low cost health plans, but didn't bother to read their insurance policy. And fuck all that "fine print" bullshit, i read benefit summaries every single day. It's usually 3 pages long and in very basic english. The problem is people don't read. Period.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:02 No.10916536

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:02 No.10916536

>>10916065
>assist with food stamps
>assist with section 8
>assist with medicaid
>wtfelsedoyouwant.jpg
>not realizing that people choose, and a majority want to be stupid and lazy no matter how much you assist them, and when you force to assist them to help progress, it becomes authortarian, not democratic.

ennui !!r1XrQP07hRU
03/05/13(Tue)18:02 No.10916552

ennui !!r1XrQP07hRU 03/05/13(Tue)18:02 No.10916552

>>10916436
>1. Cash on hand

lol

>A special line of credit (card) for medical purposes

when an ambulance shows up at your house, do paramedics search for your card while you're dying?

the other two require emergency services to be performed first.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:03 No.10916575

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:03 No.10916575

Replies: >>10917282

Basicallly in murrica you should only go to the ER if you are:

A: About to die

B: Clearly broke smething

Anything else just google your symptoms and go to the specialts docotr you need to see. That's all that will happen at the ER.

I went because I suddenly sharted a lot of mucous and blood. Waited 3 hours. Googled what it could be in the waiting room the whole time. Finally doctors told my "By the way blood is coming out of your ass, go see an ass doctor"

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:03 No.10916576

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:03 No.10916576

>>10916377
Not the guy you were taling to, but true emergencies were traditionally solved by the doctor fixing the problem and then sorting out the paperwork later.

If you have a condition that will eventually hit you that you are aware of, like heart problems, and have no preparations to cope with a related emergency when it comes, that isn't really anyone else's responsibility.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:03 No.10916601

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:03 No.10916601

Replies: >>10916740 >>10916870

Actually, OP, hospitals cannot deny people care regardless of whether or not they are insured. I know this because that is why our hospital bills are so high, because we have slobs going there. Check your facts fucker.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:05 No.10916653

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:05 No.10916653

Replies: >>10916981

>>10912683 (OP)
These are emergency rooms.


San Francisco General Emergency, for example, is so backed up on weekends with gangbangers and bums that they can't handle them all.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:07 No.10916740

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:07 No.10916740

Replies: >>10917037

>>10916601
This is correct. And while they may complain, the AMA has rammed laws through to get money back for helping these high time preferences fuckers right out of everyone elses pockets.

So to make the process linear. Hospitals command some respect for helping the poor while whining out of the other end of their mouth for how much it costs them while getting paid tax dollars from the government for helping said poor people.

I need a jew pic.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:08 No.10916780

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:08 No.10916780

Replies: >>10916861

File: 1362524905465.gif-(97 KB, 600x541, revolutionary-shot.gif)

97 KB GIF

>socialists/communists/statists (idk what to call you guys) complaining about greed
>demand more social programs, more money, free health care, free education, free food, free fucking everything at the cost and labor of EVERYONE, poor included

not trying to sound like your a typical conservative, but, seriously, lets seek some alternatives outside moving money from one place and putting it into another place and expecting that to work over and over again.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:10 No.10916861

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:10 No.10916861

Replies: >>10917070

>>10916780
> Let the rich have all the money
Fuck you

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:10 No.10916870

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:10 No.10916870

>>10916601
>Actually, OP, hospitals cannot deny people care regardless of whether or not they are insured.

Which is EXACTLY why not having universal health care is retarded in this century.

Either you ensure every citizen has health insurance, or the hospitals end up paying for it.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:12 No.10916947

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:12 No.10916947

>>10916310
I really don't think absolute property rights will create the post-scarcity paradise we both think of, and here's a part of why: rent-seeking behavior, and capital accumulation.

Because there are no taxes on much of anything, once you have capital you can milk it ad infinitum through generations without really contributing anything other than your continued ownership of it. Land is a good example, hence rent-seeking behavior.

Then there's the capital accumulation that will occur because of this. Some people will be born into much more than others, and will ultimately get shafted in life due to this fact, as opposed to some real genetic inferiority.

Then there's another issue: who owns what, exactly, and why. There was a point where nobody owned anything. We just didn't have this firm concept of property. Who owns what land? What property? In a chunk of land that has no owners, who owns it? The first person to find it? The first person to build on it? There are bound to be a lot of disputes about this sort of thing.

This is why states are necessary. You need a check to the naturally emergent antisocial tendencies us humans have a proclivity for. Failing that, we are in a seriously bad situation.

Zyzz .B0tdY9xNk
03/05/13(Tue)18:13 No.10916973

Zyzz .B0tdY9xNk 03/05/13(Tue)18:13 No.10916973

>>10916322
I didn't make the comparison

We don't. In fact, as you've pointed out, they are obligated to help them. OP is just a retard

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:13 No.10916981

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:13 No.10916981

Replies: >>10917163

>>10916653
When an ER doesn't have the capacity to treat everyone what do they do?

Do they pick people based purely on medical necessity?
Or does them having insurance or not also partly determine their place in the queue?

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:13 No.10917000

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:13 No.10917000

>>10913624
>implying it isn't

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:14 No.10917031

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:14 No.10917031

Replies: >>10917233

You know what's more fucked up?

The fact that I work hard and my money is being stolen to be put towards curing lazy niggers on welfare who haven't worked a day in their fucking lives.

How dare you come into my country and tell me that it's okay for the government to just take my earnings and give it away?

If they don't have the money to pay for healthcare; then that's their fault.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:14 No.10917037

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:14 No.10917037

Replies: >>10920057

File: 1362525284695.png-(34 KB, 501x585, 1353979391286.png)

34 KB PNG

>>10916740

There was a good Time article on health care costs that basically shits all over Hospitals in the US. Seriously, these are some of the most Jewish institutions in the country.

>http://healthland.time.com/2013/02/20/bitter-pill-why-medical-bills-are-killing-us/

Hospital costs have insane price inflation that even the Insurance companies cannot negotiate with. The author notes a hospital complex skyline that looks like a scene from dubai. This is happening all across the country and is similar to Universities building plush luxory style condos for income freshman yet increasing tuition by double digits each year and complaining about public funding.

It's a bubble. And nobody is doing anything about it, including Obamacare. Obamacare is merely putting price caps on the insurers end and mandating and standardizing coverage. All it will do it is increase insurance costs and make insurance shittier due to price caps, but won't do anything to address the actual increase in health care costs. Insurance companies only have an operating profit of about 4-8% as it is, and that's after sucking profit to the max. Non-profit hospitals have operating profits of 30-50% and that's after paying multi-million dollar salaries to an army of administrators and constantly building luxory state of the art regional campuses.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:15 No.10917048

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:15 No.10917048

Replies: >>10917175 >>10917269 >>10918158 >>10926416

File: 1362525305206.jpg-(541 KB, 600x1936, creditcardhead5.jpg)

541 KB JPG

If free healthcare doesn't work, then why does Finland have the best healthcare system in the world?

Same could be argued about education. We have free education, for people from anywhere on Earth. You can come to Finland and study in the best of our universities, for free.

So if these things don't work when they're free and don't cause people to fall into a lifetime of debt, why is America worse off then we?

Pic related, its a lifetime of debt.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:15 No.10917070

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:15 No.10917070

Replies: >>10917185

>>10916861

Hurrrrr Durrrrr Cum-unism! Huuurrr Durrrr Equality!

Like it was worked great in the past
>inb4 we never had a true communist system
>never had true capitalism either

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:16 No.10917083

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:16 No.10917083

>>10912683 (OP)

Americlaps*

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:16 No.10917123

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:16 No.10917123

Replies: >>10917186

>>10916330
>zyzz
yeah you can just leave

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:16 No.10917127

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:16 No.10917127

>You actually let people die in waiting rooms, if they don't have a medical insurance?

no i don't

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:17 No.10917163

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:17 No.10917163

Replies: >>10917346

>>10916981

No, their is simply a line. They take vitals to determine if somebody is in critical condition and they get prioritized, but there can be a wait to get vitals taken as well. I almost bled out in the hospital waiting to get vitals taken and when they finally did i was at risk of my heart stopping.

I was a kid then and went to the basic city hospital and waited in line with niggers and spics. My parents weren't smart enough to go to the white hospital about 20 minutes farther. Not even joking.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:18 No.10917175

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:18 No.10917175

>>10917048
>why does Finland have the best healthcare system in the world?

It does?

I thought it was France, when you're talking "bang for the euro"?

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:18 No.10917185

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:18 No.10917185

Replies: >>10917482

>>10917070
Equality of opportunity does work. But social justice fuckwits have conflated that with equality of outcome.

So, sorry, conservatards, you can't create an aristocracy where a small handful control everything forever.

Jeff.Pls.Go .B0tdY9xNk
03/05/13(Tue)18:18 No.10917186

Jeff.Pls.Go .B0tdY9xNk 03/05/13(Tue)18:18 No.10917186

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>>10917123
caught ya mirin

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:18 No.10917195

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:18 No.10917195

No, we patch them up and then they have $10000 debts after a visit, because we insist on spending the most money possible in treatment. Part of the issue of public healthcare in the US is the lack of money in the government's coffers, and the other part is that we as a nation pay outrageous amounts for actual care (hospitals opting for name-brand drugs over generics, no-bid contractors, other similar dumbnesses that plague businesses).

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:19 No.10917233

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:19 No.10917233

>>10917031
If you don't like the laws you should leave.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:20 No.10917269

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:20 No.10917269

>>10917048

Finland is white.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:20 No.10917282

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:20 No.10917282

>>10916575
>Finally doctors told my "By the way blood is coming out of your ass, go see an ass doctor"

Did the ass doctor put a bandaid in it?

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:21 No.10917311

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:21 No.10917311

Replies: >>10917394

>>10912683 (OP)
>You actually let people die in waiting rooms, if they don't have a medical insurance?

No. Everyone gets treated whether they have insurance or not. Sure, they'll be left with $100k bills, but they'll get treated.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:22 No.10917346

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:22 No.10917346

Replies: >>10917590

>>10917163
>there can be a wait to get vitals taken as well.
That is retarded.

But everybody who they know is in a life threatening situation gets help instantly, right? - no matter how busy it happens to be?

btw, in my country ER is free and the max waiting time is probably about 1 hour on extremely busy nights, usually less than 30 minutes.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:22 No.10917350

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:22 No.10917350

I think you get treated in emergencies anyway, they still want to see a bill later though.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:23 No.10917394

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:23 No.10917394

>>10917311


*$100k+ if they need surgery or something. I went to the ER without insurance last month for a bad tooth to get some antibiotics, and was charged $300.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:24 No.10917446

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:24 No.10917446

Replies: >>10917650

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>>10914807

>If we standardized billing practices we would not need 30 fucking different ways to bill the same thing to 30 companies.

mfw people go to school and actually get a specific certification showing they know how to connect the most obscure and bullshit Dx and CPT codes for the bill to maximize it.

mfw I work 1st party medical claims for an insurance company and regularly see $1500 - 7 mile ambulance bills, $30000 life flight bills, $1000 biweekly 'massage' bills, $1,000,000 3 week ICU bills etc etc

The fucking system is set up for doctors to go 'lol let's make the government give us this much this year' and the government bends over, agrees and then let's the doctor's fuck medicare in the ass.

The medicare billing system is as faggoty as a god damn (not gay but) faggot pride parade crossed with a pack of transgendered nigger prostitutes.

I fucking APPLAUD them for maximizing the money they earn but that doesn't mean I don't fucking HATE the industry and want to see it crash and burn so that maybe there will be a phoenix in the ashes.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:25 No.10917482

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:25 No.10917482

>>10917185
>social justice fuckwits have conflated that with equality of outcome.

No they haven't.

Show me one western country where living off welfare isn't shit compared to living on an average wage job.

The only issue is with minimum wage, which sometimes is too low compared to welfare.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:25 No.10917493

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:25 No.10917493

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>>10914978

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:28 No.10917586

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:28 No.10917586

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>>10912683 (OP)
"conservatives"

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:28 No.10917590

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:28 No.10917590

Replies: >>10917851

>>10917346

Yeah i remember my parents arguing with some sheboon affirmative action hire about it because I was clearly bleeding out. But i still had to wait, maybe about 15-20 minutes. Then i was rushed into ER.

If you take an ambulance they probably do the vitals on the ride, but then you have to pay for the ride. Typically about $800, which most insurance doesn't cover or there is a out-of-network deductible, and virtually all ambulance rides are out of network. So you would have to pay for about 2 or 3 rides in a year before insurance would pay that. Which you should probably re-examine your life if your being rushed to the hospital that often.

Without being critical in vital condition, an ER wait can be 2 or 3 hours during peak time. Mostly because medicaid faggots and illegal immigrants love going to the ER for some reason for every basic medical need. Medicaid faggots can atleast go to a regular doctor but they're too stupid to know that, they just show up at a hospital and wait.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:29 No.10917650

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:29 No.10917650

Replies: >>10917948 >>10918182

>>10917446
>The fucking system is set up for doctors to go 'lol let's make the government give us this much this year'

aka capitalism.

Which *shock* never works with vital services like baking and health care that the government can't allow to be closed down.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:32 No.10917755

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:32 No.10917755

So what?
He was a poorfag anyway.
A parasite less who burdens my tax money.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:34 No.10917851

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:34 No.10917851

>>10917590
>Mostly because medicaid faggots and illegal immigrants love going to the ER for some reason for every basic medical need.

The ER shouldn't even be treating non-emergency conditions.
Which is what they do in my country: if it's not a real emergency you get send home and told to call in for an appointment.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:37 No.10917948

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:37 No.10917948

>>10917650

It's not capitalism. Most of the white hospitals don't have this problem, they have reasonable charges, and don't see alot of illegal immigrants or medicaid people clogging the system. Even without insurance, you can usually make an affordable payment plan.

Virtually every single city hospital is clogged with medicaid/medicare people, who are cheaper, but these hospitals price out the ass for insurance companies, who ideally would have group purchasing. Then people without insurance get royally fucked, like charges for asprin, the towels and bedsheets that use, etc. that add up to amounts of $10,000. The cost of their medical services get charged to $100,000. This is all due to abuse in federal and state regulations and a bubble from artificial money being introduced to the system, all naively introduced to "help people"

Capitalism works when everybody comes to the table. The problem is only about 53% of the population is coming to the table.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:38 No.10917967

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:38 No.10917967

>>You live in a society where money is more important than the health or lives of others.

And you live in a society where the more useless and unproductive a person is, the more they are rewarded (generally at someone else's expense).

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:42 No.10918158

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:42 No.10918158

Replies: >>10918735 >>10918961

>>10917048
>this image
>hurr durr compound interest is scary guys

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:43 No.10918182

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:43 No.10918182

Replies: >>10918415

>>10917650

I don't think you understand the process of how medicare billing works. I sincerely wish to talk about this with you but it's just so much to type.

Basically at the creation of medicare, the gov asked the doctors to get together and make a fair assessment of pricing.

"Well this examination is routine, it's easy to do, it's very low stress - $10 for an exam!"

Boom! CPT Code: 98940 - Initial Exam becomes $10 across the board.

Then "Hmmm this brain surgery requires huge amounts of skill, it's extremely stressful..." $20,000!!

See?

It WAS fair.

Then, the fucking lawyers of the doctors come along and like scummy mother fuckers they go "Y'all niggas realize you can just inflate the prices high as fuck right?"

And from then on... well we all know the story.

I could be like miles away on the facts on this one but this is exactly how I remember an hour long discussion about this shit from my local public radio channel. I gots to go. Peace out.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:44 No.10918203

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:44 No.10918203

Replies: >>10918505

>>10914978
>I don't understand the difference between charity and stealing people's shit through violence

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:49 No.10918415

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:49 No.10918415

Replies: >>10918485

>>10918182
>Then, the fucking lawyers of the doctors come along and like scummy mother fuckers they go "Y'all niggas realize you can just inflate the prices high as fuck right?"

That's what I said: Capitalism.

And capitalism is fine when the customer can walk away.
But in this case it isn't.
Real problem is all the conservitards claiming capitalism is ALWAYS the answer. - it's not, just like socialism isn't always the answer either.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:51 No.10918485

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:51 No.10918485

Replies: >>10918576

>>10918415

I'm not that guy, but I won't say "capitalism is always the answer" as long as we can agree that what we have now is not capitalism.

Introducing laws and regulations that push out the individual consumer is not capitalism. That's pretty much the exact opposite.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:52 No.10918505

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:52 No.10918505

>>10918203
>don't understand the difference between a democratically elected government making laws and niggers breaking them.

Just move.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:53 No.10918524

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:53 No.10918524

When the fuck did /pol/ become such a bunch of sycophantic fuck-tards for every organization under the sun?

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:54 No.10918576

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:54 No.10918576

Replies: >>10919135

>>10918485
>laws and regulations that push out the individual consumer is not capitalism.

What are you talking about?

Hospitals are private corporations, out to maximize profits for their shareholders - that's capitalism.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:57 No.10918684

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:57 No.10918684

>>10912683 (OP)

HEY OP! YOU JUST SETTLE THE FUDGE DOWN, AIGHT!

How else will those oil companies, or military contractors, or various other corporations, or billionaires get their subsidies/tax breaks/welfare?

MONEY JUST DOESN'T GROW ON TREES.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)18:58 No.10918735

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)18:58 No.10918735

Replies: >>10919160

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>>10918158
Yes it is, actually.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)19:00 No.10918818

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)19:00 No.10918818

Replies: >>10919123

I'm pretty sure American hospitals will attempt to help yu regardless of whether or not you have money. They will bill you later and you can pay it off over time.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)19:04 No.10918961

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)19:04 No.10918961

>>10918158
It's not compound.

It's just that minimum payment is less than what's charged in interest.
So stupid people think they are paying back a loan when all they are doing is PREVENTING compound interest.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)19:09 No.10919123

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)19:09 No.10919123

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>>10918818
>walking merrily in a nigger filled ghetto
>get mugged
>jaw and four ribs broken, stabwound in your stomach, 6 teeth missing, eyeball broken
>get to the er
>no money or insurance
>its ok you'll pay it "later"
>two weeks later, a wild bill appears
>60,000 dollars

You'll be dead before you can pay that off with all the interest it'll be making while you're trying to pay it off.

Its rather ingenious actually.

America is just a big farm for corporations.
You're livestock, nothing else.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)19:09 No.10919135

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)19:09 No.10919135

Replies: >>10919570

>>10918576
>Hospitals are private corporations, out to maximize profits for their shareholders - that's capitalism.

Most hospitals are non-profit.

I posted this earlier, if you want to learn how the system works and what is exactly driving up costs.

http://healthland.time.com/2013/02/20/bitter-pill-why-medical-bills-are-killing-us/

That is, if you want to learn. And the author has a strong preference to a Medicare model.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)19:10 No.10919160

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)19:10 No.10919160

Replies: >>10920519

>>10918735
Why?

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)19:13 No.10919266

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)19:13 No.10919266

Replies: >>10919382

>>10912683 (OP)
>That is THE most fucked up I can even IMAGINE.

Your welcome to pay for them. People whove got a nail sticking out of their palm or a garden gnome lodged in there ass.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)19:14 No.10919324

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)19:14 No.10919324

>>10912683 (OP)
>believing that the hospitals are even allowed to let you die because you "don't have medical insurance"
>not understanding that a hospital risks a lawsuit of fucking epic proportions if they ever even thought about doing such a thing.

Confirmed for euronigger or liberal

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)19:15 No.10919333

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)19:15 No.10919333

Replies: >>10919478

This shit happens in socialised health care. You've not seen the latest shit fest to come out of the NHS have you? There was a teenage boy left, he kept asking for water and eventually he had to drink plant water. I think he died. Oh and the 100 or so elderly patients failed recently in the Staffordshire scandal..

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)19:16 No.10919382

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)19:16 No.10919382

>>10919266
>In there ass.

You're from the states and I speak better english than you?

Okay.

In my country, we actually do pay for those things with taxes. See the thing is, we don't have so many dumb people that would go and shove a garden gnome up their asses.

Maybe its just the average intelligence of your country why universal healthcare doesn't work for you.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)19:19 No.10919478

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)19:19 No.10919478

Replies: >>10919730

>>10919333
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1332070/Stafford-Hospital-inquiry-Patients-left-water-forced-drink-vases.html
>inb4 daily mail
It was on a lot of news channels..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-18814487

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21668357

This is our socialised health care... I don't see you weeping over these failings..

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)19:20 No.10919500

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)19:20 No.10919500

If you truly believe that other people have a positive right to care, then fulfill that obligation and start handing the money and your labor over right now. Just because they didn't show up at your door doesn't mean you're off the hook.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)19:21 No.10919533

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)19:21 No.10919533

Nothing to defend. Its not true.

/thread

Captcha: fact nsnere

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)19:22 No.10919570

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)19:22 No.10919570

Replies: >>10920057

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>>10919135
>Most hospitals are non-profit.

Yes, I am "non-profit"
Me, my fellow doctors, and my CEO just make modest 7 figure livings, it's really a charity we're running.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)19:23 No.10919622

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)19:23 No.10919622

Why do YOU let americans die in waiting rooms? You care about those people more than I do.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)19:27 No.10919730

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)19:27 No.10919730

Replies: >>10919810 >>10919839

>>10919478
What's the issue here?

Some nurses made mistakes. - humans do that sometimes.
They didn't deny him treatment to save cost.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)19:28 No.10919755

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)19:28 No.10919755

Replies: >>10919797

You're entitled to as much healthcare as you can afford.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)19:29 No.10919797

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)19:29 No.10919797

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>>10919755

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)19:29 No.10919810

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)19:29 No.10919810

Replies: >>10919935

>>10919730
It becomes an issue when it's a constant thing.. When it keeps happening. I can link you to many, many more stories. But you'll probably just dismiss those as human error too. Shit happens blah blah.. Point was addressed at OP complaining about private health care. OP should have a look at the darker side of socialised health care. None of us liked the NHS element in the opening ceremony. No Brit did. It's an insult to those that have died because of staff failings which shouldn't be happening as often as they do...

tl;dr

The NHS and socialised health care is shit..

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)19:31 No.10919839

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)19:31 No.10919839

Replies: >>10919991

>>10919730
Sorry, I read the BBC article not the DailyHatemail.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)19:33 No.10919935

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)19:33 No.10919935

Replies: >>10920056

>>10919810
>you'll probably just dismiss those as human error too.

Yep.

You think nurses and doctors in private hospitals don't make just as many mistakes?

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)19:35 No.10919991

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)19:35 No.10919991

>>10919839
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/health/news/article3705625.ece

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/health/news/article3692402.ece


http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/jeremy-laurance-the-failings-of-the-nhs-have-been-exposed-1647349.html

Want more?

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)19:36 No.10920056

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)19:36 No.10920056

Replies: >>10920275

>>10919935
>Yep.
Thought so..

>You think nurses and doctors in private hospitals don't make just as many mistakes?
Of course not. But making the same mistakes over and over?

Do you think that's acceptable in any sector?

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)19:36 No.10920057

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)19:36 No.10920057

>>10919570

That was the point. This was my first post in this thread.

>>10917037

Notice that Obamacare does fuckall to address the Jew-owned hospital mafia.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)19:41 No.10920234

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)19:41 No.10920234

Replies: >>10920784

>>10912683 (OP)
>Your right to the product of your labor ends where my feelings begin.

>Specifically my feelings about private businesses whose very existence are predicated on the basis that they will make profit by exchanging their skills for some other thing of value.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)19:42 No.10920275

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)19:42 No.10920275

>>10920056
>making the same mistakes over and over?

Notice how it got addressed on the highest political level? - they did something about it.

In a privatized system you don't have this level of accountability.
As lost as the death rate isn't so high that it starts to cut revenue, nobody gives a ratt's ass.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)19:49 No.10920519

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)19:49 No.10920519

Replies: >>10920555 >>10920724

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>>10919160
>making money out of thin air isn't dangeour or stupid

Okay.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)19:50 No.10920555

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)19:50 No.10920555

>>10920519
*dangerous

Damn my left hand.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)19:54 No.10920724

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)19:54 No.10920724

Replies: >>10921404

>>10920519
Oh so your fear of taking a risk is the reason.. OK ok...

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)19:55 No.10920784

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)19:55 No.10920784

Replies: >>10921233

>>10920234
Except you don't even get to keep the product of your labor anyways, some fat capitalist takes it.

Worst of both worlds.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)19:56 No.10920802

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)19:56 No.10920802

>>10914063
>1) Take a chance of being cured, leading to a LIFETIME OF DEBT TO THE POWERS THAT BE
>or
>2) DIE

Really, those are the only two options? Because I've been to the doctor several times and the ER once... And I just had to cover my copay... and I am a US citizen.

Also, these poor people, what exactly are they going to pay with? Money they don't have? So they don't pay it, it piles up with all the other debt they don't pay, and the premiums get passed down to those people who pay taxes, and who do have insurance.

Sure we can come up with all kinds of scenarios that fit your plan, but we can come up with as many that don't. What does it prove? Anecdotal evidence is pretty flimsy as these things go.

Also... I don't think you know what a strawman argument is.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)20:00 No.10921002

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)20:00 No.10921002

>>10914088
>No. We let people die in waiting rooms waiting behind all the illegal mexicans getting free health care because a wetback with a papercut is more of a priority customer than some fucking taxpaying gringo with a heart attack.
>And I am not joking either. Doubt it? Come to Texas. Insurance or no insurance, your ass is waiting behind the Mexicans.

What? I live in Texas, a large portion of the population is hispanic... And depending on whereabouts in the Lone Star State you hail from, it can be a pretty overwhelming majority.

So was the ER a fair sampling of the population accounting for the situation? How many of those people were actually illegal, and not just Hispanic people who have been in these parts since before Texas was Texas?

Also, hyperbole... None one with a papercut is going to be put ahead of someone having a heart attack, ever.

The system isn't perfect, I agree, but being racist is not a constructive solution, it is actually a little bit of the problem.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)20:05 No.10921233

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)20:05 No.10921233

>>10920784
I don't know what the fuck you are talking about. I work for a small business. My boss is more wealthy than the rest of us, but he isn't the monopoly man. He's a pretty normal guy. Nice house and car and such, but he doesn't own private jets and sports teams.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)20:10 No.10921404

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)20:10 No.10921404

Replies: >>10921780

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>>10920724
Do I fear making a big ass campfire in the middle of a living room with a persian rug?

Yes, yes I do. However, it isn't due to "fearing to take a risk." Its because I know its so fucking stupid, that the guy who suggests doing something like that should literally be shot in the head. Preferably not on my persian rug, though.

Making money out of "interests" (aka thin air) is just pure bullshitting people like you, who don't know any better.
Money is a medium used to transfer something valuable. There is nothing concrete in an interest. There is no service being done, there is no physical or virtual commodity being exchanged. There is nothing.
You are making money out of thin air.
Eventually this will fall, and hard.

You really don't think the economy spiraling downwards is just a "phase", do you?
Economic "growth" is a phase in where the economy appears to be doing better.

Making money out of thin air just because you have money does not work.
The US is a pretty decent example of that at work.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)20:11 No.10921429

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)20:11 No.10921429

>>10912789
Welcome to life under Jewish rule.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)20:16 No.10921621

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)20:16 No.10921621

>>10912683 (OP)
No one dies in waiting rooms you ignorant piece of shit. It is federal law that hospitals cannot turn away someone who needs emergency care regardless of their ability to pay. Get fucked faggot.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)20:21 No.10921780

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)20:21 No.10921780

Replies: >>10922334

>>10921404
>There is nothing concrete in an interest. There is no service being done, there is no physical or virtual commodity being exchanged. There is nothing.

>money now for money later
>not something being exchanged

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)20:37 No.10922334

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)20:37 No.10922334

Replies: >>10923253

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>>10921780
Ahh, but that's the genious part of this.
It SEEMS like something is being traded, while there isn't actually anything happening.

I give you a pound of gold and come pick it up a year later. Its still the same pound of gold, worth as much as it was a year ago.

Time doesn't magically create money. How the fuck does that logic work?
If all work on Earth would stop now, the groups collecting payments would still be getting richer and richer, without a soul on Earth doing any work at all.

Time does not work, for anyone. It doesn't create anything.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)20:53 No.10922924

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)20:53 No.10922924

Replies: >>10923006 >>10923366

>>10922619
What the FUCK is that?

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)20:55 No.10922997

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)20:55 No.10922997

Replies: >>10923041 >>10923132 >>10923197 >>10925331

File: 1362534929193.png-(442 KB, 476x2501, Ann Clwyd - my husband di(...).png)

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>>10922619

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)20:55 No.10923006

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)20:55 No.10923006

>>10922924
What do you think it is anon? Have another read if you didn't quite grasp it...

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)20:56 No.10923041

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)20:56 No.10923041

Replies: >>10923082 >>10923132 >>10923197 >>10925331

File: 1362534989771.png-(778 KB, 646x3601, Half of those on Liverpoo(...).png)

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>>10922997

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)20:57 No.10923082

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)20:57 No.10923082

Replies: >>10923197 >>10925331

File: 1362535064228.jpg-(473 KB, 1424x3138, Stafford Hospital Five mo(...).jpg)

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>>10923041

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)20:59 No.10923132

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)20:59 No.10923132

>>10922997
>>10923041
holy shit britain get it together

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)21:00 No.10923197

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)21:00 No.10923197

>>10923082
>>10923041
>>10922997
>>10922619
Thank you for posting these. Although many will dismiss you for posting DailyMail. Point is, this is what is happening in the NHS. Has been for a while.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)21:02 No.10923253

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)21:02 No.10923253

Replies: >>10923875

>>10922334

>time

There you go. You compare 1 lb of gold now in your hands to 1 lb in your hands a year from now. The money in the future is discounted in terms of present money due to and end being preferred sooner over later.

>If all work on Earth would stop now, the groups collecting payments would still be getting richer and richer, without a soul on Earth doing any work at all.

They're work was forwarding money. They gave up not having the money sum for a given period of time.

Lending a hat doesn't create a new hat. This doesn't mean a payment for the loan is out of the question.

Lending money means giving up purchasing goods over the course of the loan. Satisfying an end is preferred sooner over later. So later ends are valued less, discounted than sooner ends. This means 1 lb of gold now isn't valued as highly as 1 lb of gold a year from now. So to give up the lb of gold now, one has to receive higher than 1 lb of gold, unless one's feeling charitable.

People have different time-preferences just like people have different preferences for apples, oranges, etc. Inequalities of value means people can trade. A money loan is just someone valuing a sum of money less than a sum of money in the future trading with someone who values a sum of money now more than a sum of money in the future.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)21:06 No.10923366

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)21:06 No.10923366

>>10922924

I don't see the problem, childbirth is the most selfish thing you can do to another humanbeing.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)21:07 No.10923422

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)21:07 No.10923422

Replies: >>10923532 >>10924004

>implying health care insurance isn't bumfuck expensive because of regulation

I know it's hard for Yuropoors to understand that you don't need the state to do everything for you, but c'mon.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)21:10 No.10923532

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)21:10 No.10923532

>>10923422
If you read the thread you'll see many "yuropoors" saying socialised health care is bad.

Please learn to read...

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)21:14 No.10923685

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)21:14 No.10923685

Replies: >>10924004

>popular opinion deludes yuros into thinking that socialized healthcare is absolutely free
Dat tax rate.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)21:19 No.10923861

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)21:19 No.10923861

>>10916373
I hope you wake up in the hospital with a nigger dick in your ass. Relax, it's free.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)21:19 No.10923875

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)21:19 No.10923875

Replies: >>10924496

>>10923253
I know that, yes.
But that actually is precisely the point of why this doesn't work. Just because we can imagine a future wherein the investment actually pays, and just because we can do this this with a fair amount of certainty, doesn't mean we should.
I know it seems logical, but it isn't.
You are basically loaning from the future, and since you can't know the future, how can you do that?

What would happen if people tried to pay up all the debt the world is in now?

Its the fucking modern equivalent of religion. You can't dismiss it, you can't argue against it, and you don't know shit about it, unless you're in the business of using complicated logically sounding shit to rip people of their money. Businessmen = priests.

Creating money out of nothing will work. For a while. Don't let yourself believe for a moment that an economy based on lending would actually work or be stable.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)21:23 No.10924004

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)21:23 No.10924004

Replies: >>10924152 >>10924159 >>10924638

>>10923422
>>10923685
Said the country with worse health care than fucking half the countries of South America.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)21:27 No.10924152

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)21:27 No.10924152

Replies: >>10924638

>>10924004
>citation needed

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)21:28 No.10924159

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)21:28 No.10924159

File: 1362536883230.png-(20 KB, 200x200, 1360780098972.png)

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>>10924004
>actually serious

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)21:32 No.10924309

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)21:32 No.10924309

Replies: >>10925073

File: 1362537143653.jpg-(1.15 MB, 1200x1787, 1355217248166.jpg)

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<---Not even joking.

At what point does an individual's problems become the responsibility of the nation?

I'm all for helping people in need, but I don't like the idea of being forced by the government to help people who fucked themselves over.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)21:37 No.10924496

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)21:37 No.10924496

>>10923875

>But that actually is precisely the point of why this doesn't work. Just because we can imagine a future wherein the investment actually pays, and just because we can do this this with a fair amount of certainty, doesn't mean we should.

Oh great, hand-to-mouth primitive existence. Stop using every amenity brought by capital investment, retard.

>You are basically loaning from the future, and since you can't know the future, how can you do that?

So go and die. You don't know the future, so why live?

We can now some about the future. How else would you be posting your shit?

Not everyone has to be as retarded as you. That were aren't god-like doesn't mean we should cease allocating resources for future consumption. You can live like a wild animal all you want, just keep your feces flinging away from me.

>What .. now?

Well, it shouldn't be all paid back because fractional-reserve banking is criminal and government is criminal so public debts shouldn't be paid either.

>Its ...priests.

Empty rhetoric.

>Creating money out of nothing will work. For a while. Don't let yourself believe for a moment that an economy based on lending would actually work or be stable.

There isn't any creating money out of nothing with what I described. Hell, you could use the same unit of money for multiple payments on the same loan.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)21:39 No.10924542

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)21:39 No.10924542

>>10912683 (OP)
>You actually let people die in waiting rooms, if they don't have a medical insurance?

Actually I'm pretty sure it's federal law for hospitals to provide life-saving healthcare first, then ask for payments later.

People who die in the waiting room are people whose injuries were too severe for the packed hospital and overworked staff to accomodate. In this case it's a problem of fund allocation and hospital logistics and stocking/staffing, not the lack of health insurance for the patient.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)21:40 No.10924584

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)21:40 No.10924584

File: 1362537641464.jpg-(40 KB, 627x323, JIDF tweet.jpg)

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>>10916322
Fuck off JIDF

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)21:42 No.10924638

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)21:42 No.10924638

Replies: >>10924737 >>10924863 >>10925232

>>10924004
>>10924152
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_systems


US: 38th.

Above it for example: Colombia, Chile, Argentina, Dominica, Costa Rica.

Even countries who kill gay people legally and don't let women drive have better health care than the US.

You really, really suck.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)21:45 No.10924737

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)21:45 No.10924737

Replies: >>10924934 >>10925154

>>10924638
>not looking at their methodology

You do realize they ranked systems lower if outcomes weren't equal, even if both outcomes were better than another system that had equal outcomes, right?

You realize that some systems don't count babies as infants if they die in a certain time after birth which skews their data on infant mortality?

Of course you knew that. Vive Cuba!

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)21:46 No.10924764

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)21:46 No.10924764

>>10913964

Retard, it's not all about you and the individual. I know it's hard to understand that when everyone's a different race, but try looking at Japan or Iceland. So socialist with their medical care!

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)21:50 No.10924863

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)21:50 No.10924863

Replies: >>10925154

>>10924638
>over 60% based on distribution and equality

all of my lels

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)21:52 No.10924934

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)21:52 No.10924934

Replies: >>10925110

>>10924737
>they ranked systems lower if outcomes weren't equal, even if both outcomes were better than another system that had equal outcomes, right?
>some systems don't count babies as infants if they die in a certain time after birth which skews their data on infant mortality?

Source?

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)21:55 No.10925048

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)21:55 No.10925048

>>10913577
>free healthcare?
FREE?!? Really? Then how does any hospital buy things if they don't receive any money?

Oh right, that's because your healthcare isn't free you delusional idiot.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)21:55 No.10925049

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)21:55 No.10925049

>>10912683 (OP)
If you use your welfare for cigarettes and booze it's not our fault you get shot for not paying your homie...Should have paid for Healthcare, nigger

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)21:56 No.10925073

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)21:56 No.10925073

Replies: >>10927214

>>10924309
I can see why you wouldn't want to pay for others. But what if you can't pay for your care yourself? Do you deserve no care at all then ? In my opinion every state has the obligation to look after it's citizens. There really is no difference betwwen supplying germ free water or safe government facilities and providing healthcare. There is of course a point where your actions should make you have to pay more for healthcare. you can't argue with the fact that being born poor and still having to pay the same amount of money for healthcare is inhumane as it prevents possible (lol murrica) human development.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)21:57 No.10925110

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)21:57 No.10925110

>>10924934
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_systems

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)21:58 No.10925154

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)21:58 No.10925154

Replies: >>10925201 >>10925259 >>10925331 >>10926071

File: 1362538733386.jpg-(21 KB, 300x225, warner-bros-thats-all-folks.jpg)

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>>10924737
>>10924863
Even if I were to engage in these "arguments" (which I'm not going to do), the end result of the argumentation would still be that the United States of America has an inferior healthcare system, no matter the scale.
The healthcare in the US is not at the level of first world countries.

Your healthcare sucks, as does many other things about your nation.

Although I have to admit, you had a good run. You were a promising world, filled with wonders. Until about, oh, lets say the last 50 or so years.

You might as well shut down the whole of US and just hang this image up.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)21:59 No.10925190

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)21:59 No.10925190

File: 1362538798635.jpg-(111 KB, 425x282, iStock_000007126560XSmall.jpg)

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>>10912683 (OP)
>>10912683 (OP)

Correct.

Take a guess as to who runs the insurance companies.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)22:00 No.10925201

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)22:00 No.10925201

Replies: >>10925725

>>10925154
>shut up you're wrong

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)22:01 No.10925232

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)22:01 No.10925232

File: 1362538899326.jpg-(110 KB, 490x377, stossel.jpg)

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>>10924638

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_systems#Methodology

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_systems#Criticism

>Journalist John Stossel notes that the use of life expectancy figures is misleading and the life expectancy in the United States is held down by homicides, accidents, poor diet, and lack of exercise. When controlled for these facts, Stossel claims that American life expectancy is actually one of the highest in the world.[4] A publication by the Pacific Research Institute in 2006 claims to have found that Americans outlive people in every other Western country, when controlled for homicides and car accidents.[5] Stossel also criticizes the ranking for favoring socialized healthcare, noting that "a country with high-quality care overall but 'unequal distribution' would rank below a country with lower quality care but equal distribution."[4]

>Glen Whitman claims that "it looks an awful lot like someone cherry-picked the results to make the U.S.'s relative performance look worse than it is." He also notes that the rankings favor countries where individuals or families spend little of their income directly on health care.[7] In an article in The American Spectator, Whitman notes how the rankings favor government intervention, which has nothing to do with quality of care. The rankings assume literacy rate is indicative of healthcare, but ignore many factors, such as tobacco use, nutrition, and luck. Regarding the distribution factors, Whitman says "neither measures healthcare performance" since a "healthcare system [can be] characterized by both extensive inequality and good care for everyone." If healthcare improves for one group, but remains the same for the rest of the population, that would mean an increase in inequality, despite there being an improvement in quality.[8] Dr Fessler echoed these sentiments.[9]

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)22:02 No.10925259

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)22:02 No.10925259

Replies: >>10925725

File: 1362538947880.gif-(1.58 MB, 202x288, 1325015673430.gif)

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>>10925154

Stay mad, nonAmerican.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)22:04 No.10925331

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)22:04 No.10925331

Replies: >>10925725

File: 1362539078230.jpg-(62 KB, 949x609, USA_vs_Canada_wait_times_(...).jpg)

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>>10925154

>healthcare in the US is not at the level of first world countries.

SEE:
>>10922619
>>10922997
>>10923041
>>10923082

US > UK

Both are first world countries.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)22:06 No.10925384

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)22:06 No.10925384

Replies: >>10925688

You didnt know this world worships money?

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)22:16 No.10925688

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)22:16 No.10925688

Replies: >>10925898

File: 1362539803149.jpg-(9 KB, 250x233, gentleman.jpg)

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>>10925384
Oh I did.
I just came to see as ameritards defend their jew-controlled country and make up excuses for their love of money and fat. Fat. Fat. Fat. Like 67% of citizens fat. Oh yeah, that's actually right.

Disgusting.

Filthy, addicted, selfcentered pigs.

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)22:17 No.10925725

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)22:17 No.10925725

Replies: >>10925820 >>10925827

File: 1362539873613.jpg-(40 KB, 562x437, HA_HA_HA,_OH_WOW.jpg)

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>>10925201
>>10925259
>>10925331

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)22:20 No.10925820

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)22:20 No.10925820

File: 1362540043721.jpg-(1.08 MB, 799x2538, World Health Organization(...).jpg)

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>>10925725

>implying equality = high quality

Anonymous
03/05/13(Tue)22:20 No.10925827

Anonymous 03/05/13(Tue)22:20 No.10925827

>>10925725
I figured that would go over your head. See, I was making note of the fact that your post consisted of "shut up you're wrong". Yes, sometimes people use green text to do that. It's an advanced 4chan skill, so don't worry about not knowing it.