>hurr lets super generalize everything so that it's not even mildly related to reality and whine about the fact that everyone hates you for being a commie scum.

libertarians haven't killed millions of people

No OP, I take them both to be the cards of knowledgeable fools.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

sure is generalizations here
people are scared of communism beause the soviet union ran it's course

>confusing libertarians with anarchists again

>>964215
Neither has real communism?

>>964215

this.

>>964215
Because they haven't been in power yet.

>>964229
Obligatory counter retard post.

>>964243
too bad libertarians are about personal freedom and are generally anti-war

>>964250

*sigh*

Fine, believe what you want.

>>964243
this

if libertards get into office they'll inadvertently kill millions of people through retardation by confining ourselves to the oppressive totalitarian regime of the constitution and get rid of social programs that help the elderly, disabled, and poor.

it'll be an old people/disabled people holocaust

Because those who sacrifice essential liberty to attain a little security deserve neither and will lose both.

Oh and communism has killed BILLIONS, could be that too.

>>964243
I'd have to agree with this.

>Libertarians believe humanity will change itself suddenly in the light of a free market; Security traded in for liberty.
No. We don't give a crap what you do as long as you don't mess with us. You can roll around in dirt all day long, we don't care. Just don't ask us to help you clean you up.

>>964215
>libertarians haven't killed millions of people
No but capitalism has.

>>964263
>it'll be an old people/disabled people holocaust
Which isn't a necessarily a bad thing if you're a selfish cunt. A more productive and intelligent work force would be good for the economy. Surprised it hasn't taken off. It's not like politiicians actually care about us.

>>964263
you could rephrase that to read.

people will have the freedom to make their own choices and might end up killing themselves due to their own stupidity.

personal responsibility motherfucker...do you have it?

>>964264
>Oh and communism has killed BILLIONS, could be that too.

Not oppressive crazy autocracies that committed genocide and had even more die due to lack of intelligent infrastructure and isolation from the rest of the world because of economic differences?

Sounds like something you'd hear happening in the Dark Ages when a state switched religions. Not really communism.

Do you by chance, know what communism is?

>>964307
>>964307
>>964307
>>964307
idiot
idiot
idiot
idiot
idiot

that are 50-70 have been paying into social security their entire life and depend on the social security system TO LIVE.

>>964334
>>964307
i mean people that are aged 50-70

>>964307
>people will have the freedom to make their own choices and might end up killing themselves due to their own stupidity.

I have kidney failure and I can't afford to get help because I'm no longer subsidized by the government and I no longer have an income, even though I've provided to the state all my life.

>stupid old bitch

Libertarians truly are the scum of the earth. Selfish pieces of shit.

>>964348
I don't care about your kidney failure, that's not my problem. I didn't break your kidneys, maybe you should've saved money and considered the possibility of kidney failure in your future?

Because (thankfully) no one lives under libertarianism in a form we recognize today.

Libertarianism is like communism, except where the goal is to kill everyone instead of help them.

The Communist deaths are due to power struggles and paranoia in the USSR, and outright retardation and anti-intellectualism in China and Asian "communist" countries And have nothing to do with economics or communism in general.

This is in stark contrast to what would happen to the people if Libertarians got what they wanted and completely did away with any social welfare system. Their economic policy and political ideology would be directly responsible for millions of deaths.

>>964334

For one thing, no libertarian is so idiotic as to demand that we abolish all state welfare programs overnight. There has to be a period of transition, obviously.

Second, almost nobody depends on social security to live. The elderly in America are the baby-boomer generation and are statistically quite well off. They live on much less income because they have much lower expense.

Third, social security is neither social nor secure. It's actually just a wealth transfer. Your payroll taxes go to support retires, and any surplus is immediately spent somewhere else and a Treasury bond is placed in the Washington "trust fund". That's to say, people are going to be taxed AGAIN to pay for the wastes of this elaborate Ponzi scheme. The unfunded liabilities amount to trillions of dollars. There is a coming demographic crisis that will also require massive tax increases on the young to pay for the old.

Seriously, we should look into something better.

>>964389
>commies murdering millions in every single communist country in the world has nothing to do with communism!

lol, even in places without power struggles they started dragging people out of their homes and murdering them just for the hell of it.

Face it, communism is evil and all commies deserve to die.

>>964348
Your fault for paying taxes and expecting the government to care for you. Maybe in the next life you'll have learned independence and responsibility.

>>964369
See, he proves my point whilst simultaneously believing he's 100% correct.

These people are idiots.

Libertarianism makes a lot of sense on a Federal level in the US.

Especially today. Give me one thing the Federal government does currently that you approve of and I will give you two things they do that you will disapprove of.

Nightmare mode: Give me any new Federal bills/laws from the past 10 years that you approve of.

-Backyard Furnaces Disaster, try to make steel, cut down all the forests to make sub-par steel that cannot be used=massive waste of manpower and time
-Plant Grain Deeper in the soil to grow more-leads to massive crop failure and starvation, kill all the sparrows and birds to prevent them from eating the grain seeds=bugs, bugs everywhere, entire towns grouped together to harvest nothing...forge stats to appease the government
-Numerous Failed Irrigation Projects
-Forced Commune System another huge failure that results in massive starvation

estimated 18-45 million chinese people die of starvation

Libertarian is to anarchism what socialism is to communism.

>>964410
>lol, even in places without power struggles they started dragging people out of their homes and murdering them just for the hell of it.

First off, name one place.

Second, name one political regime that did not rape the first. You tell me that, and I may or may not give you 50 of the opposite coin.

>>964348

>Libertarians are the only people who don't think emotional appeal should dictate policy

Fixed that for ya. Sorry bout the kidneys. I bought a non-winning scratch off ticket today. Since in your perfect world, bad luck should be subsidized, you and your friends should reimburse me for lottery tickets I buy that don't win.

>>964436
THIS
MOTHERFUCKING THIS

>>964440
commies in the spanish civil war.

The truth is actually the opposite of what you're suggesting OP.

Here's the crux of the Libertarian model - human beings are flawed.

The major implication of this assertion is that any form of government is therefore flawed.

Thus the goal of the Libertarian is to limit the power of the government. The understanding is that even if the policy-makers have good intentions, the result of any far-reaching policy is impossible to completely understand; subsidies and welfare are two such "well-meaning" programs that have had serious negative effects that were largely unanticipated. The problems are magnified when the policy-makers fail to act in the best interests of the people, and instead begin to legislate in favor of a powerful minority. We are essentially pessimists, not idealists.

Of course pure Libertarian policies are not the answer either in the same way that pure communism would never work in reality. But the idea that we should attempt to curb the power of the federal government as much as possible is a powerful one that would, in my opinion, lead to a leaner and more efficient government.

>>964348
Not our fault

>>964348
Charity is a better means of wealth redistribution

>>964348
You expect me to feel sorry for you? Because I don't.
People die every day. You should feel grateful for your time on this planet. Not everyone gets to live happy, healthy lives. You're one of those people.

I mean, at least you have the internet.

>>964348

http://www.independent.org/pdf/tir/tir_05_3_barnett.pdf

ITT: people criticizing a political ideology that has been around for ages more than anything else.

you people have no idea what you're talking about.

>>964487
>>964477
>>964471
>>964455

Liberatiranism boils down to:

"Fuck you, I got mine."

commies already had their turn.
at least give the libertarian model a fair shake.

also about old people...whats wrong with having your dad (now grandpa) live in your house instead of shipping him out to a nursing home? is it because americans dont have any family values?

>>964477
Is this some Libertarian in-joke? I keep hearing it.

You have the most selfish and retarded political doctrine in existence and we're supposed to believe you'll give you money away to help the poor?

Come on, be serious.

>freedom
>idealistic

GTFO you statist cunt

>>964477
I agree, social welfare programs are destroying our economy. I don't want to lose the country just to pay for some idiot's kidneys. One guy is not worth America's stability.
Yes, I realize this is a stupid generalization, but that's what it comes down to. Would you socialize healthcare so people who can't afford it get free medicine while destroying the country? Or would you rather people who work hard pay for the healthcare they deserve? Also keep in mind YOUR hard earned dollar goes to this faggot's kidneys, when it's not your problem, nor your responsibility.

>>964513
So we saved our money and went without in the yesterday so that we have it today.

You spent all the money you had in the yesterday, so you have none today.

And you claim we need to be robbed to provide for you?

>>964198

People don't like to be reminded that large swathes of people work best when order and discipline are used to reach targets.

they want the illusion of choice-- why just have one car brand manufactured to my needs when i can choose between 30 types that allow me to express myself as a person despite me not needing cruise control or fucking 4x4 or tinted windows etc etc. even though i only need it to drive for 60mins to work and back.

they fear that with communism/ state control such things as "free speech", "free choice" and other such hippy, flower-child notions would come under threat despite the only way to even consider preservation of these ideals is to employ proper safeguards protecting them rather than tear apart that system and open it up to possible corruption and misuse like you would see under most libertarian examples.

in short more people considers themselves free, strong independent humans who don't need no help.

>>964513
Should have saved your money.

>>964513
no one is stopping you from donating your money to charity or going out an working at a soup kitchen..."niceness" is just not mandated by the government...but i have a hard time calling welfare being nice to someone. it gives you no incentive to do well in life so you just follow the path of least resistance=sucking on the tit of government welfare.

with libertarianism you have the freedom to be nice...or not. government welfare is the governments way of being nice...but in reality its just making society weaker and lazier.

>>964534
LOL

YOU WANT TO ROB EVERYONE ELSE TO PAY FOR YOURSELF AND YOUR WANTS/NEEDS

AND YOU CLAIM WE'RE SELFISH? LIBERAL LOGIC!

>Libertarians want freedom; they want to rape and pillage and be gangbanged by wildniggers.

So, in reality. The people who are the drive force of most of the insultingly colored anti libertarian propaganda do not feel free?

>>964534
So you think I should be required to give my money away to the poor?
How many times have you volunteered? How much money have you given to charity?
I'd bet 0.

>>964567
>but in reality its just making society weaker and lazier.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
There are people out there who are content with dropping out of high school, never going to college, and working at McDonald's for the rest of their life.
And then they want to have 12 kids and expect the rest of the world to pay for those kids' healthcare through social programs.
Not gonna happen.
It's libertarian's time to shine.
I would let those kids starve to death.

i dont want to work so ill just use the force monopoly of the state to take money from others. long live wealth distribution, i have the right to other peoples money!

ITT: people who think laws should be based on emotion

>libertarians are so selfish and greedy and don't help!

What that really means is: I'm stupid and want others to pay for my mistakes. Don't worry, I can always find a reason as to we I'm not responsible for the situation I'm in.

It all comes down to your definition of help.

Libertarians want people to take responsibility for their actions and when they need help...think that you should rely on the goodness of others.

Commies don't trust individuals to make the right decisions so they force you to act a certain way. Its simply catering to the least common denominator.

>>964539

I'm a libertarian - but I understand its limitations.

Healthcare is complicated issue because it doesn't fit neatly into the supply-demand model. The government has some role to play in healthcare; but most of us can agree the government's current involvement is not the ideal solution.

>>964423
yea bro
you trade in lives for economic development, thats how communism industrializes in a generation.
if you want results, get a communist.
if you want freedoms valued get someone else.

>>964626
i dont think you understand the history of Mao's Great Leap Forward.

Up to 45 million people starved to death and the economy regressed because of the government's retarded policies.

Historian Frank Dikötter asserts that "coercion, terror, and systematic violence were the very foundation of the Great Leap Forward" and it "motivated one of the most deadly mass killings of human history."[5]
The years of the Great Leap Forward in fact saw economic regression, with 1958 through 1961 being the only years between 1953 and 1983 in which China's economy saw negative growth. Political economist Dwight Perkins argues, "enormous amounts of investment produced only modest increases in production or none at all. … In short, the Great Leap was a very expensive disaster."

>>964603
would those kids starve?
not likely, they would crime to survive, wouldnt they?
what if this is on the whole, more expensive?

>>964613

Or in other words:

Communists and Libertarians think individuals are flawed.

Communists think individuals acting as a collective body minimizes the flaws of the individuals within it.

Libertarians think individuals acting as a collective body magnifies the flaws of the individuals within it.

Libertarianism has been variously defined by sources. In the strictest sense, it is the political philosophy that holds individual liberty as the basic moral principle of society. In the broadest sense, it is any political philosophy which approximates this view. Libertarianism includes diverse beliefs, all advocating strict limits to government activity and sharing the goal of maximizing individual liberty and political freedom.[1]There are any different kin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

So the world embraced us GREEDY CAPITALIST STOOGES. The result? 200 million fewer poor people in China and India in thirty years time as well as 25% more food to eat across the third world.

Communism has killed roughly 65-93 million people making it the most murderous ideology of all time. And don't bullshit me about Communism having never been tried. People under the flag of communism tried it. That ideology meeting reality head on is what we got.

>>964549
OP here, couldn't of said it better myself. And I love how everyone passed you over to emotionally defend their non-emotion.

Libertarians like to believe they're the most emotionless logical people, but I see shit like:

>Also keep in mind YOUR hard earned dollar goes to this faggot's kidneys,

>YOU WANT TO ROB EVERYONE ELSE TO PAY FOR YOURSELF AND YOUR WANTS/NEEDS

>government welfare is the governments way of being nice...but in reality its just making society weaker and lazier.

>And then they want to have 12 kids and expect the rest of the world to pay for those kids' healthcare through social programs.

>I'm stupid and want others to pay for my mistakes

What emotional and primitive tripe. It's like they want to live in society and gain from it, but they don't actually want to give anything back.

They're the kind of people who would cut everyone down on their way up the ladder that when they get to the top their is no one left to share their success with. What's the point of "succeeding" as they say, in trade for their humanity (lack thereof.)

>>964674
a libertarian society ensures that the best rise to the top

a communist society ensures that everyone reaches a certain base level.

>>964694
This is as bad as the left-right wing strawmanning bullshit. Most of the Western world are mixed economies, yes they are capitalist, but they are not fully so.

Since when is 10-20% of your paycheck giving away all your money to the poor? For you americans, most of it goes to your bloated DnD. Or do all libertarians only care about money pinching you fucking jews.

>>964705
i like the sound of a communist society then...
what happens in a libertarian society to the average people like me? the ones who aren't "best" or even "good" at anything?

>>964729
>>964705

>They're the kind of people who would cut everyone down on their way up the ladder that when they get to the top their is no one left to share their success with. What's the point of "succeeding" as they say, in trade for their humanity (lack thereof.)

Morals completely out the window, but hey, at least we get spaceships to spread our non-comprehension of compassion around the universe!

>>964729
you live a mediocre life

you get out what you put in.

>>964749
>you live a mediocre life

Jesus, this guy is so dense he doesn't realize he'd be dead in his own libertarian dream world.

but the idealist opposite of communism is anachism, not libertarianism

>>964250
libertarianism isnt for the abolishment of goverment, but for minimalizing its extent. a government is still a necessary evil to insure a rule of law.

>>964749
there's always going to be someone better than you at SOMETHING...but i don't think all people should be judged based on how good they are at certain things, we live in a civilized society and should encourage helping the less fortunate...

>>964725
Pretty much. I've never had a problem with paying taxes. If I don't have the time to do charity work I'm more than happy to help subsidize my fellow man.

It's not a lot, and I do it glady.

How little are these people defending libertarianism making, that they can't afford anything after taxes? I'm an American, but fuck, other Americans are fucking penny pinching jews.

>>964782
>a government is still a necessary evil to insure a rule of law.
fuck you and FUCK your laws.

>>964263
>they'll inadvertently kill millions of people through retardation by confining ourselves to the oppressive totalitarian regime

>>964725
That's not true, most of the tax dollars goes to social spending, which includes medicare and social security. But you're mostly right on the total tax wedge, which is about 25% of labor income for a two earner couple with two kids.

>>964797
>doesn't think the constitution is oppressive and prevents social progress
retard conservafag detected

>>964648
no man. i understand fine.
you work lots of people to death, you take their shit, you imprison/kill your opposition. shit sucks BAD for some time.

later (the same generation) sees themselves rising to the world stage. mao met nixon. not maos son or grandson.

china is 2nd largest economy, right?
they didnt get there following maos ideals, but they couldnt be there without maos actions either.

im saying that if i was in some 3rd world shithole i would join up with an armed communist revolution that was serious about development.
want to kill ethnic rivals and nothing else? no thanks.
want to kill all opposition, build factories/schools, and likely die in the pursuit? YES! what have i got to lose?

>>964790
what are you, an anarchist?

its unfortunate, but a government is still the only authority that can enforce important societal laws such as property rights which are critical in a libertarian society.

>>964802
And yet the American welfare state is pretty meager compared to most other ones

>>964802
So Canadians and most Europeans get free healthcare, better infrastructure, and free education, and mostly pay less taxes?

Well i guess you're covering us with your immense military against the likes of china who would most definitely invade their important trade partners.

>>964849
govt. is the narrative of "legitimate force". there isnt some objective out-in-the-world test you can measure policy against.

govt isnt magically right or wrong.

govt do things. people decide whether it was right or wrong later.
some people get pissed and break away forming their own "nation" or noisy subgroup.

>>964705

You're ignoring the fact that a powerful government will almost always eventually end up under the control of the "best".

The party leaders then become the upper class with greater benefits/power than the average citizen. Thus, the "base" that every citizen is entitled to is continuously lowered as those who control the government leverage the incredible power that they have been entrusted with to siphon away the wealth of the country.

True, a Libertarian society would have the wealthy also rise to the top, but the difference between the top and the middle wouldn't be as vast as the ones that were present in communist states of the past.

The problem with communism/socialism is just that. At some point, those in power will abuse the power of the government for their own ends.

>>964960
>Britain in the 1500s was pretty cool and all but i'm not sure it's something a modern country should be aspiring towards.

Beautifully succinct. Nice.

>>964932
what does that have to do with what i said?
im talking about the role of government in enforcing property rights.

>>964849
Wrong, I enforce my property rights with this AR15 I got right here; the govt violates my property rights by taking my money from me by force. Too bad they have more guns than me. But not for long, I say. Not. For. Long.

Because there is empirical evidence to support that Communism fails miserably and results in the deaths of hundreds of millions of people. There is no such evidence against a libertarian society, as it has never been tried. It probably never will be, either.

>>964198
And both work.

Cuba is doing better since the American puppets have been overthrown.
And one reason they do so bad is because of USA embargoes.

>>964849
Exactly. Its in our nature to seek out or claim Authority when there is none. Libertarians overlook our evolutionary legacy when trying to design their retarded self-serving utopia.

Unless of course, you go to the extreme of our nature and try to create a parallel to the law of the jungle. Survival of the fittest anyone? or survival of the wealthiest?

>>965035
What if the wealthiest are the fittest. (they're not, they don't produce sufficient ofspring)

>>964994
well it sounds like you're an anarchist, so you're irrelevant to the point I'm making, but libertarianism generally sees the government as a necessary evil for certain important laws i.e. property rights.

>>964960

Funding for education would continue, it just wouldn't be centrally planned by a federal-level department.

Stop confusing libertarians with anarchists.

>>965006
Except Somalia, but Somalia was doing better after their communistic government fell.
People just want to see results within 3 years or they call it a fail.
And those results would mean 100% growth.Or they still call it a fail.

Wasn't Oman back in 1400 doing really good?

free trade, free country in general?

>>964626
>>if you want results, get a communist.

Your retardation cannot get any higher.

>implying any country in the 1500s was libertarian.

Just because there was limited government doesn't mean it was libertarian.

To be a libertarian society, the government must protect individual rights. 1500s Britain certainly did not protect the poor from the tyranny of the wealthy. In fact, the lawmakers of the era empowered the wealthy to profit from the poor. Just because there wasn't socialism doesn't mean it was libertarian.

Quit being retarded

ITT: PaulBots hold this position and fail to see the irony

>HOW DARE I HAVE TO PAY FOR YOU TO NOT DIE
>Charities will appear out of nowhere and pay for everything when we stop forcing people to pay for you

>>965093
They had colonies but nobody ever whines about that because they aren't white.
They also traded in slaves.

>>964994
If you want to stop paying your taxes, then stop using the roads you drive on you fucking retard and every other government provided service. You may also want to craft your own guns since most the weapons are manufactured by corporations that rely heavily on government money. Go live in a shack somewhere in the woods and become some insane survivalist.

Better yet, go live in Somalia and try to conquer them, since i can already guess that you're just another white supremacist. The world would be better off if you either died or succeed in bringing order to that libertarian shithole.

>>965157
The 20th and 21th century are the centuries with the least amount of tarrifs and trade barriers.
Never have we had more free trade, and economic growth has never been so high.(Every period has known depressions, it is not something unique)

Innovation is still on the rise.

Did OP single-handedly prove the retardation of the average libertarian?

>>964898

They don't have less infrastructure and they don't pay less taxes. Most of them also don't invent much and the euro is at risk of collapsing. They do all of this despite the fact taht they get free military protection.

>>964291

Fuck, you just went full retard nigga. Capitalism is a socio-economic system that has done so much more than any other system has in the history of human beings. lrn2economichistory and quit being a total faggot.

>>965246
>that has done so much more than any other system has in the history of human beings

>lrn2economichistory

Someone needs to take their own advice.

>>965159

You forget the other key-part of the argument.

Clearly charity is a weak argument - and I dislike those who use it as an example (without explaining the other assumptions behind it).

What libertarians think, is that the government's involvement in healthcare is what has driven it up to unsustainable prices. By eliminating, or at the least limiting heavily the government's involvement in healthcare we would see prices drop to affordable levels. The total social cost of medicine would drop meaning the average citizen would not need to take out a mortgage for every surgery they undergo.

In this system those who are unable to pay would not be suffering from hospital bills in the six-digits.

True some people would be left out in this scenario - but libertarians at this point believe because of the lower costs of healthcare, charitable efforts would be enough to cover the remainder of society that is unable to cover their medical costs.

Of course, as a libertarian, I understand that healthcare is a distinctly difficult topic and do not agree that the government has no place in regulating the industry. However, as it stands now, I believe government involvement has done nothing but make healthcare less affordable for the average citizen.

>>965234

They're still better than communist though.

>>964994
silly

that isnt your face or signature on those bills you love so much.

you traded your work and time for paper that you were told has value.

you want to defend the right to trade your finite time and energy for infinite paper rectangles?
you want to trade your life for that right?
go right on ahead bro.

do it on a slow news day and let the cameras get in close enough to see the fear of death all over your face. so i can slow-jerk and come when you are shot dead.

>>964291
You know without those greedy organisms in your guts you wouldn't even be able to get your daily nutrients.
Capitalism is everywhere and every living being is a participator.
Even the non living viruses.

Capitalism is us, everybody and everything.

>>965280
I'd say they're pretty equal.

>>965270
>charitable efforts would be enough to cover the remainder of society that is unable to cover their medical costs.
That isn't the case now. That has never been the case. Why the fuck do you think that'll suddenly happen when medicare goes away? Do you just not understand human beings?

>>965322
You're telling me, that if we put the lives of people into the hands of private entities they might not treat them with the care and respect, or even dignity of the state?!

Just look at the prison system. It's a libertarian's wet dream.

>>965153
implying mao and stalin didnt get shit done.

if they were so sloppy and lazy why bother mobilizing to fight them?
what was the cold war about? werent shit-poor people mobilizing and industrializing under communism, is thats why it was such a global and immediate threat?
tell me where im wrong bro.

>>965234
see
>>964782

Do you guys seriously want more government involvement in your everyday life?

>>965367
Mao only brought stability.
Many people died, but China is stable now.

Stalin was pretty shit, the officer purge nearly killed the USSR in the second world war.
But American lend lease saved them
Joseph Stalin, during the Tehran Conference in 1943, acknowledged publicly the importance of American efforts during a dinner at the conference: "Without American production the United Nations could never have won the war."

>>965367

They were still big crazy countries.

>>965322

Rely on family and friends?

I said I do not agree with the principle.

I was explaining it however.

Read the entirety of my post please instead of green-texting parts out of context.

(also to refute the point, a large number of hospitals in the 1950s were non-profits run by charitable contributions from major churches.)

Not to mention, charity from FAMILY counts too you know. If surgery wasn't as obscenely expensive as it is today, i'm sure family members would be happy to pitch in for relatives in need. However when you talk about 100s of thousands of dollars it's just not feasible.

But again I agree that charity can't cover it ALL. But the main issue is that the cost of healthcare would be reduced significantly with the right structure of government.

Should we, one day, have a united money?
I mean, an world united money?

Because speculation can't stay such a insane mechanistic.

The dollar$ seems good to me.

>>964348

what pisses me off the most about you communist fags is that you assume that we want people to die. We're not fucking amoral dumb fuck. I'm trying not to get mad but fuck dude, it just gets beyond irritating seeing communists spouting their meainingless, elitist, self-sacrifice bullshit. I fucking donate to charity any chance I can and I make less than 5,000 a year (living with parents because of this shitty fucking economy because of the progressive federal spending programs due to both parties).

>>964250

Don't even get me started on your stupid ass picture. Jesus christ, I've never seen such a misleading piece of shit comic that has no real grasp of the type of people that fund libertarian ideas. By that stupid picture, almost every corporation and rich wealthy person should support an LP candidate. Ron Paul should be the most funded candidate by Goldman Sachs and other big corps. Is this the case? It isn't cause you're a bitchfag.

>>965394
the stability of having millions of your countrymen starve to death for no reason

>>965322
>>965401

ah forgot to link-

>>965397
>Rely on family and friends?
Because everyone has a surgeon willing to work for free in their family right?

>>965322
Just like in Asian countries.
Your parents will live with you once they get too old.
That's why when you marry an Asian girl many times you also marry her family.

>>965423

Your friends and family give you money genius.

>>965424

>when you marry an Asian girl many times you also marry her family.

What about if you only marry her once?

>>965411
The civil war was over now.
And China was one again.
He did liberate Tibet (feudalists assholes are worse than communists)


Millions died yes, but China is not in a constant state of war now.

Libertarians don't need to try to fix human nature. The philosophy rewards those who try to get to the top, which is human nature, and communists apparently think humans will just disregard all their ambition, all their material desires and all join hands and sing in their system.

>>965443
dohohohoho

>>965443
Sorry, English isn't my native tongue.
I hope you still get what I meant.

>>965301
It works but not to the extreme. In a true libertarian society, Slavery is very possible as well as any immoral act since there is nothing stopping those with power from using it as they wish. All it takes is some really rich ass hole to mess with someone's life to derail your perfect libertarian utopia.

>>965270
All you need to do to massively reduce the healthcare bill is get rid of the profit making insurance industry as a middleman. Paying an uneeded entity billions of dollars for no obvious reasons and then complaining national healthcare is too expensive and doesn't work is incomprehensibly retarded.

>>964198
Simply, because STATE CAPITALISM (we have never seen a
truly comunist regime in the world) already show how much did it fail.

It's just a matter of time before libertarians show the world how stupid they are and how much they will fuck things up.

>>965401
>Doesn't realise those obscenely expensive hospital prices are because of the privatisation of medicine.
Doesn't cost the government half as much over here.

>>965452
you cant seriously be arguing that those countless millions who died stabilized the country?

those people were pro-Mao. his policies killed them because hes a fucking idiot. they weren't revolting against him they were simply doing what he told them to do and guess what...they all fucking starved to death. millions of lives wasted.

>>964513

This has got to be one of the fucking stupidest slanderous things commies have come up with to smear the Libertarian Ideology.

"Fuck you, I got freedom." is more appropriate.

Bitch all you want commiefag. You mean nothing to me. Hey, dude, get a job and you can serve me that way then you will mean something. I'll get a job too and we'll serve each other.

>>965464

You really don't get it do you.

in a true libertarian society slavery WOULD NOT BE POSSIBLE.

The entire function of the government in such a society would be to prevent others from robbing their neighbor of their liberty.

You're thinking about anarchy.

You're also thinking like a retard.

>>965473

Nah, hc is expensive because of over regulations. If left to the markets, it would be fairly cheap like how most things are in america when compared to other countries.

>>964534

America is one of the most wealthiest nations in the world. Also one of the most generous. u mad, faggot?

>>965509
>Nah, hc is expensive because of over regulations

>>965540

Commie.

>>965452
You realize that even a slight praise of a communist state is going to convince these libertarians that anyone who disagrees with them is a communist.

>>965464
I'm not a libertarian.
I only advocate small countries.
And small in my eyes means less than 10 million people.

Smaller countries are more efficient (Singapore, Hong Kong)


I see the state as a corporation, and when they get too big like every corporation they lose efficiency.
It doesn't matter if a country is a libertarian paradise or a maoistic society, if it has more than 50 million citizens I want it to break down.
More countries will mean more competition, the countries will then try to thrive by being better.
This will lead to countries take different routes.
In the end, one will prove superior and countries will move towards that path.

Which path it will be nobody knows.

Bacterial colonies aren't very big either (their numbers are much higher but they're also much smaller)

>>965550
>Doesn't know what a commie is either

>>965556
I know.
But I'm not here to befriend.

I defend everyone who gets more bad reputation than they deserve.
I believe in freedom of speech and will defend anyone for it, nazis, anarcho capitalists communists.
I have defended them all.

>>965404
In a millennium perhaps, when we have a globally equal level of development, if affairs are still conducted in such a primitive method.

The Euro has shown that having economic parity between nations of varying stages of development is fucking retarded.

>>964573

This.

fucking liberals are willing to steal and call it moral. They won't even ask, like civil human beings.

>>965501
Pol Pot was a true idiot.
Even then I can still see why he wanted it.

China needed to unite.

What if Mao wasn´t there, would it be sunshine there?
You forget that it might be possible that without Mao more people could have died.

>>964603

how did people with such large families survive before?

I'll tell you a secret libfags, production.
it's not as if organizations won't exist once people are off government welfare, to help those that are incapable of helping themselves. People will always want to help others but theft through the government is not a solution in dealing with each other in a civilized manner.

liberals=legalize government theft and wealth redistribution

You should get back what you put in. People who work harder should get more. Thats the American dream. If you want it you should be able to work for it. Its common sense.

I really hope the libertards do win, watching the poor revolt against them when they're starving is going to be pure entertainment.

>>965394
yea, capitalism for industrialized nations
and communism for non-industrialized nations
(if they have the stomach for the inevitable shitstorm)

im not saying that communism is puppies and ice-cream.
communism is hard, it does not value individual life and property. but it gets roads built and makes electricity.

you want to industrialize in 100yrs: capitalism
you want to industrialize in 10yrs: communism
pick your poison. i have my tastes and preferences, you have yours. lets be pals.

>Mao brought stability
tell that to the intelligentsia or the opposition of the cultural revolution. in their mass graves.
if i was a young chinese i would call it a net gain. you?

>>965667
Not a libfag.

But why would theft be bad?

Why do you have to use relative terms to win?
If it profits us all(if,if,if) why would it be bad?

>>965684
>you want to industrialize in 100yrs: capitalism
>you want to industrialize in 10yrs: communism

I lolled. Sorry but no, also communism is never sustainable, so if you want anything lasting.. generally best to avoid it :)

>>965690

It's called having morals. Just because it's nice to have doesn't mean you should steal from others.

>>965079

> Be Somalia
> Called "Libertarian"
> Have a Central Bank

yeah, no. Fuck off, commiefag.

>>965667
>work harder
so roofers should be paid more than ceos?
what do you mean by work harder?
obviously i strawmanned you(my apologies), but im serious with the question.

right now people get paid based on the profitable-ness of their results.
i could work really hard on a 10ft sculpture of my dick, i couldnt expect/demand to be paid for that work. right?

what do you think of the growing disparity in peoples income?
1920:40x difference
2010:400x difference
what do you think of minimum wage laws?

>>965667
>Doesn't realise there aren't enough jobs for everyone to work and never have been
>OMG GUYS WORK HARDER

>>965594

Fucking Robin Hood was the scum of the earth. Prince john and the Sherrif of nottingham were job creating heroes amirite?

>>965684
Well.
the capitalism 100 years, communism 10 years isn't true in all cases.
Look at Republic of China (Taiwan), South Korea and Hong Kong.
Depending on what the 'capitalist' nations do, free trade is better.
Africa is doing so shit (a very big factor) because of EU and USA agriculture subsidies.
The poor African farmers will never be able to compete because their countries will be given loans and then be crushed by debts.
We can all agree that in this case, protectionism used by Africa is the right thing to do here.
(If EU and USA weren't protectionist this wouldn't have been needed and it would have been a better situation, but countries are assholes)

What communism can give is order.
In the situations of Russia And Peoples Republic of China there was a civil war and very unhappy population.
The cure for an unhappy population isn't capitalism because capitalism can be very tough (which will lead to even more unhappy peasants, and people can be unhappy even if they have it good), but an iron fist.


I would say the things Mao did were horrible but it was net gain.
There haven't been a civil war in China for years now, and people have it better than in the corrupt shithole India is.

>>965743
a good roofer should get paid more than a new roofer, or a lazy roofer

the same goes with plumbers, teachers and even CEOs

>>965721
I'm utilitarianistic. (I hate that word)

I only care about the net gain and not the means.

>economic depression
I'm the man you need.

>>965743

It's not like CEOs get to where they are simply because they work hard if they do at all. Theres alot more nuance to reality than hard work.

Connections, Education, location, race discrimination, ass kissing, starting capital, etc are all factors in helping you get to the top. The reality is that there is no such thing as equality of opportunity even in a libertarian wet dream.

>>965803
So in the classic thought experiment of 5 people who desperately need organ transplants and there's someone in the waiting room that has 5 viable organs, you would slaughter the bystander and harvest their organs?

>>965270

Considering that the current mixed economy sucks, and that past societies have tried wide scale Communism and failed there is no hope for Communism as is. Your best bet is to let Libertarians rain in cause they'll let you form your own little state of communism.

Charity is not a weak argument. Charity is the most moral thing we as human beings can advocate in dealing with each other.
Healthcare is so fuzzy and fucked up because the federal government starts creating artificial supplies that have not been met by demand of land, labor and capital (all while increasing regulations in the health care industry to make it harder to start a practice).

>>965821
i think you mean me. hell even other countries needed me to get them out of a depression.

>>965821
You are now hearing the Hayek versus Keynes rap in your head.
Manually.

>>965838
No because the gains won't be positive.

The people who need organs are probably very unhealthy and they need an expensive operation.

>>965401

this

charity wins commiefags. Compulsory "moral" action is fucking immoral and quite disgusting - it's just as bad as being a religious conservafag.

>>965587
No.
But of course,

_\ Only if you weight the money within in the dept, and enclose it in "domains" (industry, real estate, social, health, education...).

_\ Only if the weight of the dept (american nation, 1000billions per year,...) depends of some variables, as the lifetime of the nation (ancient cities,...) and the size of their population , by example.
_\ And only if you consider that the material devices keep their actual values.

The westerns cities are happy with lots of dept, the new muslims ones happy with all their petroleum, and poor ones gains attention.

>>965862
I'm listening to it right now.