technically true, but that doesn't change the fact that THEY WERE THERE FIRST

How hard is it to tell Israel to stop expanding into palestinian land? 90% of all the problems come from this alone.

>create Jewish state in the middle of typically Arab lands
>60 years later criticize Palestinian people of being on Jewish land

You couldn't get away with this anywhere else.

In other news Britain tells Americans they are an 'invented' people.

We invented the Kosovan people then..

>remember that Newt was a history teacher and received a Ph.D in the field
If he believes that Palestinians are an invented people, then he is either misinformed or he is a liar.

>He's also probably old enough to witness the creation of Israel as a witness
So fucking what? He was probably four.

inb4 tape showing Newt giving head to Bibi

The Jews were nomads.
They never had a "homeland" prior to the British mandate.

/discussion

If the Jews get Palestine, the Mexicans should get Texas.

Homo erectus tells Homo Sapiens they are an 'invented' people

>>610848
This is so true...

When will you stop sucking the Jewish dick America?

How can over 300 million people tolerate having less than 10 million ordering them around and sending them to fight their wars?

>>610920
>>2011
>>still believe liberal lies that evolution actually happened
>>non-biased science has proven the Earth to be 6000 years old

So anyway Gingrich confirmed for republican presidential candidate then?

What now Ron Paul fans?

How about I invent a foot up your ass?

>>610948

This is what Israel wants you to believe.


Don't think many JIDF are gonna bite on Shabbat.

>“Remember, there was no Israel as a state. It was part of the Babylonian Empire. We have invented the Israeli people, who are in fact Semitic and are historically slaves of the Egyptian people, and they had the chance to go many places.”

This is basically what Helen Thomas said and it destroyed her career. Newt won't suffer in the slightest for it; in fact it will bolster his standing in the south because they would never ever ever nominate a Mormon.

There are also no Irish people.
They are all part of the British.

Doesn't mean they can go live in England, though.

"The Arabs" consist of many different groups with different cultures and different histories.
All they really share is their language.

ITT: MIDF peddle their lies unopposed.

I think the rest of /pol/ has gotten bored of you guys.

I like that the absence of a pre-modern state somehow legitimizes treating a people as a non-entity, a non-people.

The Jews could easily use that kind of rhetoric to justify conquering Syria (There's no Syrian state, syrian people, and the United Monarchy of Israel ruled in Syria), or Iraq (Babylonian Captivity), or Yemen (Queen of Sheba), or any fucking place where a modern nation state didn't emerge until the 19th-20th century.

Jesus christ, Russia could probably easily make a case for taking every baltic state except Lithuania because herp a derp there wasn't a state before the modern era.

>>611058
The evangelical fuck's hatred of the Mormons has ended up making me sympathize with the Mormons more. There's that popular discourse of them being the other, crazy and odd but with exception of the fringe polygamist groups they seem a lot fucking less harmful than Baptists. They've got their problems and they are bible-thumpers too, but I'd sooner live among the Mormons than the baptists.

>>610918
>If the Jews get Palestine, the Mexicans should get Texas.

Well, there are no Texans people, they are American and can live in any of the other 49 states.

So I actually don't see what would be wrong about giving Texas to Mexico.

Palestinians don't have that Luxury, though.
They don't have citizenship of any country and so nobody is obliged to take them in.
Much like the former German Jews between 1938 and 1945.

pic related

>>611155

>Lithuania
>no state before the modern era

The Grand Duchy of Lithuania called. They demand a jousting tournament to settle this slanderous claim.

>Gingrich says Palestianians are an ‘invented’ people

this guy is supposed to be mr genius debater? LOL what a joke

>>611168
>They don't have citizenship of any country and so nobody is obliged to take them in.

Why don't they have Jordanian citizenship? Wasn't the West Bank part of Jordan from 1948 to 1967?

He's right, though, there was no such thing as the Palestinian people or ethnicity before the 1960s.

Doesn't mean they don't exist now.

Kuwait was also an invented country.

Yet when Saddam tried to set things right by re-uniting it with the rest of Iraq the British and Americans reacted all butthurt. - why?

Palestinians are an invented people in much the same way Israelis are an invented people or Americans are an invented people and pretty much any peoples are an invented people, because concepts such as ethnicity, culture and nationhood are artificial social constructs. Denying the existence of the Palestinian people is on par with denying the existence of the Holocaust, so suck on that Jews and Jew-lovers.

>>611187

>>Every baltic state except Lithuania

I did put except because Lithuania was big dog in the Baltic, buddy.

>>611246

My bad, I'm illiterate.

No one wants them they are the "Gypsies" of the Arab world, in fact Syrians went out of their way to exterminate them!

>>611241
>Denying the existence of a ethnic group is like denying a historical event

I see the point you're trying to make, but your comparison doesn't work.

>“Remember, there was no Palestine as a state. It was part of the Ottoman Empire. We have invented the Palestinian people, who are in fact Arabs and are historically part of the Arab people, and they had the chance to go many places.”

And the Jews who founded Israel were European colonists who had many other places to go, not descendants of the ancient kingdom of Israel. What's his point?

>>611221
Jordan knew that Palestinians are scumbags too. Hell, they invited Palestinians into their country and the fuckers tried to take control of the government.

Following that logic, you could say the same thing about Americans. Or Jews.

There is no apartheid, random useless arabs from all over the middle east came to Israel calling themselves Palestinians and demand that the nation of Israel change it policies to fit their beliefs.Israel says no fuck off and the Arabs lose their fucking minds. Kinda sounds like whats happening in the UK only the British are bending over and grabbing their ankles for these asshats

>>611183
>>611183

The same quiz applies to Jews and Israel before the British and the Americans decided to give them land that did not belong neither to the British,and the Americans, nor the Jews. JIDF fail.

The Jews were nomads and camel-jockeys. Read the Bible. They are constantly on the move, or at war with some poor sod.

Historically, the Jews were the bitches of the Romans and the Egyptians.

>>611262
They inherited the land via religion. Not all possessions (including land) has to be passed down via bloodline. Actually, that sounds a bit silly.

>>611261

It does, because it is denying an historical event, that people lived on the land before European colonists came and forced them off, and the Palestinians are the descendents of these displaced people. It's trying to deny that an act of foreign imperialism and a displacement of people occurred by denying those people existed.

>>611265
So what happened? Did Jordan strip all Palestinians of citizenship and tell them they're Israel's problem now?

>>611276
>They inherited the land via religion.

Hence they are religious fundamentalists.

>>611276

Well if we're inheriting land via religion, the shouldn't it go to the Canaanites, since they were there first? Why not acknowledge the Roman conquest and give it to Italy, I mean inheritance through military conquest is just as valid as inheritance through religion. Or hell, give it to France because of the Crusader Kingdoms and all, they conquered it militarily and had a religious claim to it.

>>611275
>he doesn't know about Israel's history before Rome
:)

>>611277
Some Palestinians were descendants of people who lived there and were forced off.
Just like not all Jews are descendents of Holocaust survivors.

But while those people existed, they weren't called "Palestinians" when it happened.

>>611275

Most of the bible prior to about the 8th-9th century or so is nothing more than mythologies of a nomadic people.

And considering no Jew of the Northern Kingdom of Israel survives (these were the lost tribes of Israel who disappeared into the cultures they were forced to migrate to), the Jews can only claim the right to the Kingdom of Judaea.

>>611282
Anything West of the river Jordan was never officially part of Jordan.

Saying Palestinians should have Jordanian citizenship is like saying Iraqi's and Afghans should have American citizenship.

>>611294
>I mean inheritance through military conquest is just as valid as inheritance through religion.

Then it would belong to Israel too, they fought off several invasions to keep the land.

>>611260
Your point?

Once upon a time, the exact same thing was said of Jews, and the mistreatment of the Jews was legitimised on the basis that it had happened often before and was committed by many different people.

It ought to be surprising how often people apply the logic of anti-Semitism in defending Israel, but I'm getting pretty used to it.

>>611294
If you can show me anyone that is a Canaanite today, then I'll give him fight for him to own his share of Israel. I expect genetic proof beyond any doubt.

>>611290
To be honest, the law of return is way to lenient. Basically anyone with a Jewish relative can get into Israel via law of return.

What exactly is wrong with religious fundamentalism though? If they don't start bombing shit or shooting people, then I don't see much of a problem.

>>611304
>Most of the bible prior to about the 8th-9th century

I don't think the bible stories keep going into the 9th century...

>>611274
>There is no apartheid
One set of laws for Palestinians in the West Bank, another set of laws for Israeli settlers. That's apartheid.
>random useless arabs from all over the middle east came to Israel calling themselves Palestinians and demand that the nation of Israel change it policies to fit their beliefs
You're a lying sack of crap. Around 1900 there were 500,000 Arabs and 15,000 Jews in Palestine. Even at the creation of the state of Israel in '48, there were more Arabs than Jews on the land.
But keep spinning your fairy tale that the land was empty, there's still a few Evangelical Christians who buy it.

>>611298
>>611298

As I said, the Jews were nomads.

>>611321
>If they don't start bombing shit or shooting people

You're too obvious.

>>611304
But borders change, at one time the ottoman empire owned most of eastern Europe and the independent Russian states! Now they are just Turkey!

>>611306
So what was Judea and the West Bank 1948-1967, if not Jordanian land? What was it considered, what were its inhabitants considered?

>>611323

BC.

It's moses and Abraham and David and Saul and Solomon up to about 1000s/900s BC.

Then you get into the people nobody remembers and the babylonian captivity and so on.

>>611321

I am not that guy, but unless you can show Jews who have genetic proof to link them with the northern tribes of Israel (one of the 10 who disappeared, not the tribes of Judah and whichever was the other one), the Israelis have a claim to only the area in red.

sidenote: could Gingrich be any more of a scumbag?

9 year-olds should be working as janitors in schools
stay classy, Newt

>>611276
>They inherited the land via religion. Not all possessions (including land) has to be passed down via bloodline.

I'm an Atheist, and both my parents are Christians.

So what you are saying is that some random Christian has more rights to inherit from my parents when they die than I do?

That is insane.

There is no such thing as "religious inheritance" and never had been.

What really happened was: Jews were crowding up England after WW2 so the Brits decided to move them into one of their many colonies so they were longer their problem.

>>611330

Exactly. And Turks don't have a legitimate claim to Eastern Europe and Ukraine.

Israel doesn't have a legitimate claim to the Northern Kingdom of Israel. No Jews survived from the 10 tribes that disappeared. At best there was a cultural link (although both were willing to make war with one another), yet there also is between Turkey and territories it gave up last.

>>611324
If the land wasn't empty, why does every single travelloge and history book from the 1800s say otherwise?

>>611335
>>611335
>So what was Judea and the West Bank 1948-1967, if not Jordanian land?

The Palestinian territories, they were called Palestinians.

Jordan used to be part of the Palestinian territories as well, but they got independence.

>>611321
>>611321
>What exactly is wrong with religious fundamentalism though?

You must be a huge admirer of the Taliban. They managed to bring peace to Afghanistan even for a short while, until the US invaded and started bombing shit or shooting people.

You must also love Iran. I hear it is a much more peaceful place than Iraq has been since 2003.

You ought to know that religious fundamentalism hinders freedom of speech and thought among other things.

>>611342
There are quite a few Jewish groups that decended from the Northern Kingdoms, rather then the Southern.

Plus, there were Jewish communities outside of Israel before the destruction of the Northern Kingdom, (places like Yemen), their descendents are still part of the Jewish people.

>>611275
That's the thing bro. Palestinian aren't more legitimate in havin ghte lands than Israel. It's bullshit to think otherwise.

>>611342
First of all, you're claiming that there MUST be some kind of blood relation for land to be inherited. This isn't necessarily the case. While it is usual for the parents to give what ever they own to the children when they die, it isn't necessarily required. You can give possessions and land through other systems. Maybe you give it to your friends, or members of a club, or members of a religion. Stop trying to make this a blood related issue.

Also, there have been a plethora of findings in DNA that link many people back to Israel. For example, read, Jacob's Legacy: A Genetic View of Jewish History.

>>611376
So Jordan is Palestinian land?
Why aren't they rioting and murdering there too?

>>611364
Bullshit, bullshit, and bullshit.
There were repeated censuses of the area.
The Ottoman census of 1898 showed a half million Arabs on the land. There was no Israel then, so how do you explain that away?
C'mon, more hasbara lies, let's have 'em!

>>611378
What's wrong with fundamentalists IF they don't harm others. From my understanding, Iran and Iraq have been having problems with suicide bombings from fundamentalists. It's like you don't read my post at all.

>>611376
Why didn't Jordan let the Palestinians have a country then?
Why did they put all the Palestinians into refugee camps?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pal%C3%A4stinalied

While the english link is disgusting short it's there.

>>611364
>>611364

Oh you! I see you've done your homework. You're just reading the wrong (plagiarized) books.

>>611404
How do you explain away literally THOUSANDS of books written by eyewitnesses who traveled the land in the 1800s?

>>611426
So you're saying all those hundreds of books published in the 1800s were all part of a Zionist conspiracy from the future?

Or did the Zionists go back in time and magically change all them?

>>611430
What's funny is that Israel was literally marsh land until the state of Israel was created. Then people actually worked with the land and made a great society.

>>611411
>Why didn't Jordan let the Palestinians have a country then?

That was the plan.
Until Israel re-captured the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

>Why did they put all the Palestinians into refugee camps?

You mean the ones in Jordan?
Where else could they live, there are so many of them.

Or do you mean in Palestine? - that's because Israel won't allow them to return to their homes.
Jordan has no say in that.

"The Invention of the Jewish People" by Shlomo Sand

/thread

>>611446
>Israel won't allow them to return
And why should they? they deliberately abandoned their homes in full anticipation of Israel being wiped off the map.

>>611442

Yeah, the Ottoman and British empires screwed up.

That's so sad about the Palestinians:
-First they suffered under Ottoman mismanagement.
-Then they suffered under English colonialism
-Now they suffer from Jewish occupation

They are probably the most oppressed people in history.

>>611441
>hundreds of books
>>611430
>literally THOUSANDS of books

Now that's a proper JIDF fuck up. You need to somehow co-ordinate your propaganda you Jewish cunts. Otherwise your lies are exposed.

>>611446
>That was the plan.
>Until Israel re-captured the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

They had two decades. What was taking them so long?

>You mean the ones in Jordan?
>Where else could they live, there are so many of them.

Jordan's a big place, there was under a million refugees.
Are you telling me there was no where else in the entire country for them to go, so they all had to be stuffed into tiny little camps and never allowed to leave?

>>611464
>they deliberately abandoned their homes in full anticipation of Israel being wiped off the map.

And?

It was war, so they fled.

Should Jews who fled in WW2 also be banned from re-entering Europe?

>>611461
>2011
>Still believing in the Khazar Hypothesis

ISHYGDDT

>>611484
>Should Jews who fled in WW2 also be banned from re-entering Europe?
I support this!

>>611484
>>611484

But the Palestinians didn't leave. This lie has been debunked by many Jewish historians.

>>611466
If that's the best rebuttal you have, are you admitting you lost the debate?

Come on, how do you reconcile your supposed claims with actual historical documents?

Either hundreds of books or thousands of books - either way, how do you account for all those eyewitnesses saying the exact opposite of what you're saying?

>>611495
Of course not all of them left. The ones who stayed are now Israeli citizens.

>>611467
>Jordan's a big place, there was under a million refugees.

Have you ever been to Jordan? - I have.

There is only a small strip where people can live, rest is desert.
And there are now more Palestinian refugees living in Jordan than any other group.

It would be like America adopting 250 million Mexican refugees.
btw: why did America not adopt more Jews during WW2?

>>611324
Because as they are backwards tribal fucks, They demanded their own councils of learned Palestinian leaders to insure the prosperity of the Palestinian areas, which is why the Palestinian areas look like a mix between a war zone and a trash dump!

>>611512
Because Roosevelt was an anti-Semite. He turned refugee ships back to Germany where the people on board were executed.

>>611495
>debunked by many Jewish historians.
>Jewish historians.

lol, yeah, and any independent historian says otherwise but I guess that's only because the entire world is part of an anti-Semitic conspiracy.

Apparently none of you niggers have seen this video about the palestinians: (no it's NOT pallywood either)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_3A6_qSBBQ

>>611512
Interesting. Do you have a map of Jordan that shows the livable areas and what the rest are like?

I know most of Eygpt is desert beyond the Nile, so I could imagine the rest of the Middle East is similar.

>>611500
>>611500

Post the names of the authors and tiles of 900 books that support your claim and I will concede.

900, Not one less.

If you find only 899 you must admit you are a filthy Jewish cunt and go enlist in Hezbollah.

Do it FAGGOT!

It's only 900 books out of thousands. It should be easy.

p.s
I'm posting the one book that rules them all.

This is an extremely tired line of reasoning the zionists have been struggling to argue for decades now. The fact that a people do not have a UN-recognized nation state does not make them non-humans, and it does not make it okay to exterminate them to make room for affluent white Europeans to live so they can set up a country that keeps "inferior" religious and ethnic groups out.

>>611467
>they all had to be stuffed into tiny little camps and never allowed to leave?

What the HELL are you talking about?????

Palestinian refugees can travel around in Jordan all they want, there are no restrictions placed on them.

They are also allowed to buy or build homes anywhere in Jordan, if they can afford it.
They don't have to live in the (small) homes given to them by the Jordanian government if they don't want to.

I think you might be confusing Jordan with Israel.
In Israel, Palestinians have to live behind walls and fences.

>>611517
Because NO ONE would want their leaders to come from their own population, nope.

That's just backwards. It's not as if the US has a law against immigrants ever becoming President.

>>611547
I won't do anything so absurd, but here's what 10 seconds on google gives you.

http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&keywords=TRAVEL%20%2F%20Essays%20%26%20Travelogues&rh=n%3A15
812271%2Ck%3ATRAVEL%20%2F%20Essays%20%26%20Travelogues&page=1

Go ahead, read a few, disprove them.

>>611534
That video just made me REALLY FUCKING MAD for some reason.

>>611586
I was just saying that they are shitty leaders and they refuse to cooperate with the Israeli government at all and then whine when the government refuses to help them!

>>611583
If that's the case, why are they still living in these refugee camps and claiming how horrible it is and how its all Isreals fault?

Just give the fucking west back to Israel. Draw a fucking horizontal line straight trough fucking Jerusalem. Call the north part Palestine. Call the south Part Israel. Call Jerusalem Rome and plant NATO there.

Put an end to this shit. 60 years is too damn long to be dealing with it. I couldn't care less anymore who was there before. The land was invaded, it was conquered, and it is now the land of the conquerors.

It's reasonable logic considering the whole fucking region tried to pull the same shit on Israel countless times since its inception and lost.

>>611531
>>611531

You are a fucking asshole, what you are saying is in support of the Zionists. The Palestinians did not leave, they were expelled forcibly by the zionists.

Watch the debate between Alan "the pig" Dershovitz and Professor Norman Finkelstein.

Read the transcript here:

http://www.democracynow.org/2003/9/24/scholar_norman_finkelstein_calls_professor_alan

>>611534
This video shows exactly what's wrong with the Netanyahu government.
They think that if they just explain all the facts and history logically, people will listen to them.

They don't realize it's all about emotions and picking sides, and no one actually cares about the truth.

>>611630
Why give them anything! Israel fought hard to keep these territories why should they give them up

Yes, and Poland should be given back to Germany.

>>611631
>You are a fucking asshole

Wow, relax, buddy.

>The Palestinians did not leave, they were expelled forcibly by the zionists.

Yeah, that's what I meant.

Well, some left out of their own choice to avoid getting caught between the fighting sides and others were directly forced out by the Jews.

>>611464
>And why should they? they deliberately abandoned their homes in full anticipation of Israel being wiped off the map.

More Israeli propaganda.
The Jewish terrorist organizations Irgun and the Stern gang would enter Palestinian villages, drag a couple of the men into the town square and shoot them. If the rest of the villagers didn't flee, they'd come back a day or two later and repeat it. Sure, these people left their villages with only what they could carry on their backs because they wanted to, yeah, that happened.

>>611666

That only happened a handful of times, if at all. Lets see some proof it happened everywhere - or anywhere.

>>611183
11. I'm somewhat confused, on which date exactly did the Arab countries invade Israel in 1967?

>>611642
Indeed, the only good Muslim is a dead Muslim, resurrect the third temple of David with the bones of the Dead.........Blood for the Blood god

>>611517
>the Palestinian areas look like a mix between a war zone and a trash dump

and has nothing to do with Israel stealing as much of the good farmland as it can, putting walls around water sources, dynamiting Palestinian wells, restricting Palestinians from accessing their own fields to tend crops, interfering with the import of raw materials, and blocking exports

>>611631
Wow, Dershowitz cleans the floor with Finklestein.

Great link, thanks!

>>611689
your tinfoil hat is a little tight

>>611650
>Israel fought hard to keep these territories why should they give them up

To create peace.

That's what normal countries do after they win a war: they make the defeating factions an offer they can live with so the war can truly end.

But Jews never managed to comprehend the concept of compromise.
That's why they always cause conflict, no matter where they go.

I'm guessing the same could say about Guatemalans, Colombians, Argentinians, Puerto Ricans, etc, etc. THEY'RE ALL MEXICANS!

>>611642
>>611642

The video does not mention that Israel ousted the Palestinians from their land and committed a genocide.
Even Jewish historian Benny Morris Benny Morris (among other Jewish historians) has said so.

Pappé calls the Palestinian exodus an ethnic cleansing and points at Zionist preparations in the preceding years and provides more details on the planning process by a group he calls the 'Consultancy'. Morris also says that ethnic cleansing took place during the Palestinian exodus, though Morris considers that to have been justified. In an interview with Ari Shavit, Morris says that "there are circumstances in history that justify ethnic cleansing. … when the choice is between ethnic cleansing and genocide—the annihilation of your people—I prefer ethnic cleansing."

Who gives a fuck who was there first?
Whoever can take it is the one who owns it.
Every country in the world was founded because someone kicked someone's ass and took their land.
Jews own Israel because they have proven they are stronger then the Palestinians and have been able to stop invasions from the Middle East.
It's as simple as that

>>611693
>>611693
>>611693

>Dershowitz owes $10,000 to Finklestein.

I can't argue with that.

>>611700
You negotiate when the other side has something to offer, like when they gave the Sinai back to Egypt! The Palestinians are not willing to offer anything in return for peace

>>611676
Deir Yassin massacre for one, you slimy revisionist hasbara weasel

you really going to cling to that lie?
hundreds of thousands of people fled the homes their grandfathers had built, left the fields that had been farmed for generations, and left behind most of their possessions because they wanted to?
no one believes your lies

>>611700
They gave away half their country in 1948, they got invaded in return
They gave away the Siani to Eygpt, cutting the size of their country in half for peace.

You're full of shit.

Palestinians don't exist, they are an antisemitic conspiracy theory created by neonazis.

>>611709
Yeah, but then Palestinians are also allowed to fight back and kill Israeli children in terrorist attacks.

Jews might have the upper hand now.
But in a century or two, when America is no longer of any significance and Arabs out-number Jews 10:1 in Israel proper, then I doubt they could keep holding on to it.

Without willingness to make peace, Israel is doomed as a nation.
(I just hope the Jews won't claim my country next)

>>611741
Oh Jew Guys!