You could just an hero. Then the problem would be solved.

>>2697945
that's fucking brilliant

>>2697945

Not a day goes by...

bump for participation

anon pls

>>2697945
>>2697964

>Newfags using memes they don't understand to be edgy

Sure is post-Chanology bee ITT.

Bump

bump

Not american, but I support
How do you have the nerves to make a thread like this? Your IP addresses are being recorded and you're being put on a black list. You're marked for life now

>>2698006

By not giving a fuck.

>>2698006
Dissenters in America aren't dragged off to the death camps... for now.

>>2698006
um... that happened a long time ago.

I can make a simple splash page that has a (next) button with painful, quick facts about our monetary system

(see whatthefuckhasobamadone)

>>2698026
How are those big, empty, military funded camps doing?

As that insightly anon stated, aka me, I propose everyone write "ENDtheFED" in sharpie marker on every piece of US currency they get their hands on.

I hate to say it, but personal banking is one industry I think the government should actually own.

And indians too

some anon says

Ok, I don't think that thread is going anywhere. We need to get our shit straight before everyone wakes up and /pol/ starts going to Hell with all the troll posts.

If we're going to post it on /b/ it needs to be ready to turn into a full fledged fad:

>Copy Pasta
>Logo images
>Additional propaganda images for bumping
>An external link to infiltrate normalfags
>Posted during peak hours of /b/

And then you just stand back and watch them do some of the busy work.

>>2698037

I like this, but they would have to be simple enough for your average partisan retard to understand and easily verifiable so that people couldn't complain that anything that isn't fox news or cnn is existentially bullshit

How about a quick bullet point list of the most striking negative federal reserve facts?
Keep in mind people, everything in this thread is under the light that its going to be viewed by regular dumbed down U.S. masses.

Lets keep things clean-cut and simple.

>>2698037
who is gona host that

>>2698075
Why not make a list for stupid americunts and put a hyperlink page with smart stuff?

>>2698006

Because FREEDOM OF SPEECH. I say what I want, bitch.

>>2698037
THIISSSS SO MUCH. We need some quick facts, not just about the fed, but obama too. Way too many obama nuthuggers still in the US.

>>2698075
That would be tl;dr. We would need to implement some kind of iconography or something to keep their eye on the page long enough for the gears to turn

>>2698040
I've seen it done, gotten bills defaced with it. Not a terrible way to do it TBH.

>>2698038

At least if I get sent there I won't be ronery anymore ;___;

So what's so bad about the Fed, and what do you guys propose that's better?

>>2698056


Definitely. We need to ammo up on the copy pastas and propaganda images.

fractional reserve banking needs to end as well

>>2698105
congress prints money. as stated in da constitushunzzz

but obviously we'd have to throw the entirety of the current congress out on its collective ass or they'd fuck it up fast.

>>2698098
simple, effective, everyone can do it

almost as easy as not paying taxes huehuehue

>>2698048
"I killed the bank"

I can only pray my last words are so fucking hardcore.

>>2698109
No, I like the fact that hard assets and property is worth something and that there is enough money were trade and consumer goods are easily obtainable. Fractional reserve banking has helped the world expand very quickly.

>>2698098
We need some places to turn people, or it's just a silly slogan with nothing behind it.

>>2698105
The Fed controls the money supply, enabling it to create money and hand it to whichever privileged parties it pleases.

I propose replacing it with nothing, and letting competition in currency reign, and if the government so wishes it may continue to issue Treasury Notes backed by gold as a national currency.

>>2698057

>Fox News: People writing End the Fed on U.S. currency are terrorists and Anti-American, freedom fry hating communist socialist leftist anarchic authoritarian swine

>2012
>Not understanding Straw Man arguments
>not understanding meaningless buzz words
>Being a sheeple

Ishiggy diggy... Ishiggy diggy...

>>2698123
impoverish the world quickly if that whats you mean

you cant just hate on the fed meanwhile allow private banks to issue money

nopenopenopenopenopenope

>>2698113
Doesn't the Fed need congressional authorization to print money? I'm pretty sure they do. If that's the case, why doesn't that satisfy the constitutional requirement?

>>2698131

btw I meant people in general, not you.

>>2698127
Just google endthefed.

Something people might start doing just to find out what the fuck is going on with their defaced monies.

ok before we all wave our dicks in the air, we have to assess the reason why it was created in the first place and no conspiracy bullshits either. Also this whole end the fed thing started by none other than lord ron paul (as they call him) with his book 'end the fed' in 2009. There use to be very little people that cared about the fed, now everyone is jumping on the bandwagon.

>>2698123
It has helped banks expand very quickly. Do not mistake anything more for courtesies of fiat money or fractional reserve banking. Fractional reserve banking has only served to deprive us of the legitimate wealth we create.

end the fed is also the title of a book by none other than ron paul. there can't be any conflicts or confusion on that part, either.

>>2698148
>>2698152
fucking hivemind

>>2698148
read "the creature from jekyll island" its a very long book but it is very detailed and cant exactly be compressed into an image or a couple posts.

>>2698134
Private banks are not a problem, the gays and zimmerman/trayvon, and Obama are problems.

>>2698148
The FED was created to stabilize the economy to make the public loses less in recessions (part of the natural business cycle)

Most of this countries wealth has been created while the FED was in place. Results speak for themselves.

>>2698160
des it say rothschild, jp morgan carnegi and the oil guy i cant remember all got together and decided to try to pass legislation for a private central bank instead?

>>2698141
Technically yes, but the Treasury dept fills any orders for bills without question.

Also, I don't care a damn bit if the "Constitutional requirement is satisfied", TBH.

Really what I want is the freedom to choose whatever money I see fit to choose. I'm sick of fiat. If the government wants to keep printing those FRNs, let em.

>>2698170
shit, america is waking up

/pol/ going to shit...

>>2698170

>zimmerman/trayvon, and Obama are the real problems.
>Oh and the gays, fuck them too!

>>2698170
>Private banks are not a problem

HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

>>2698170
>Private banks are not a problem, the gays and zimmerman/trayvon, and Obama are problems.

>>2698148
The Fed, as far as I can tell, prints fiat currency backed by debt. This allows congress to have control over the money supply, and they can print money when a recession hits to make things a little better for the citizens. But since they have give debt to the Fed for every dollar printed, congress can't go ballistic and just try print their problems away like post ww1 Germany. I think ideally, it gives the government the flexibility of fiat currency, but within a reasonable limit.

>>2698179

I think he's being sarcastic.

At least, I hope so.

I'm so tired.

But look how far /pol/ got in creating Tropica.

I'm sure this can be accomplished in relatively little time if it is pushed by anons and the smart tripfags.

assuming they want it to go viral while educating the masses

>>2698197

He must've followed us over.

America would be nothing without the FED.

>>2698170
This country's wealth is built on debt. It was something for nothing. Meaning, we do not own it, and with public debt exceeding GDP, those debts will soon be called in one way or another. Don't think you own any of that awesome stuff we benefit from in our modern world. Also, do not think we would be without any of it without fractional reserve banking. Much innovation that made today possible came shortly before the Federal Reserve, so so early in its life that it is to be irrelevant. The rest typically comes in spite of, not because of debt.

Debt prevent progress, it does not enable it. A business saddled with debt does not grow. A person strapped with debt does not take risks. Our money is debt. Do not give the fractional reserve banking credit for our progress.

we need to explain the difference between a federal reserve note and a silver certificate dollar, among other things

I'm glad we're finally taking some actual specific action. I've been all over the web on forum discussions, and the usual problem with these threads is that the sheep don't want to fully hop on because there are no solutions proposed.


I think starting at the fed is the right idea, and for now all our resources/copypasta/propaganda should go to that cause.

+ 9/11 hoax


9/11 being a hoax is the next biggest bang for our buck next to the federal reserve simply because you knock so many birds with one stone.

If we can convince people 9/11 was a complete inside job, then you really destroy the foundation and the peoples trust for the gov't and the media.


Infact, I am still going back in forth in my head as to which cause is more currently important to push forward our cause. 9/11 or the 100 year old fed....

>>2698229
>Implying out creditors don't simply expect us to spend the rest of our existence financing the debt.

Doesn't the Fed charge interest? That's what pisses me off.

>>2698222
Yeah, it would just be that melting pot that expanded from East to West like a plague, and where everyone else in the world wanted to be. Or did the Fed exist as a central bank in 1886 when the statue of Liberty was dedicated?

>>2698236
Even if 9/11 was an inside job, it would have been caused by the same people using the 100 Year old fed, no?

>>2698236
>I'm glad we're finally taking some actual specific action.
dangerous

>>2698254
JIDF detected.

>>2698205
No, you don't understand, banks help the flow of wealth and benefit the masses. The FED exist so we can keep irrational reactionary policies away from our money. Social issues mean more to you at a personal level, discuss those and ignore the banks, take out loans to but things and live your life.

>>2698261
no im not jidf at all just giving a warning. this board is most likely monitored.

pic related

>>2698262
Trolling is a art.

>>2698269
Of course it is, we are all aware of that.

>>2698262
obvious troll is obvious. get out

>>2698254

You all need to stop posting, this is a bad idea guys.

Nothing is wrong, carry on.

1)Create a fad
2)Create a Facebook page for it
3)Spam propaganda on /b/ and other boards
4)Attract Chanology moral fags
5)It will eventually spread to moral fags
6)Civil unrest grows
7)2012 elections pass
8)People realize nothing will change
9)????
10)PROFIT!!

>>2698269
>>2698269
>>2698269
aka for you tards out there. THERE IS A REASON THAT NEW/POL WAS BROUGHT BACK. THE FEDS RECOGNIZE THE GREAT ABILITY OF DISCUSSION/FLOW OF IDEAS AND SO ON THEREFORE THEY TOLD MOOT TO BRING BACK POL. THEY NOW HAVE A GIGANTIC WINDOW INTO THE REALTIME THOUGHTS OF PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD REGARDING THE HAPPENINGS OF SAID WORLD.

if you dont believe that some sort of intelligence agency(s) isnt data mining this board then you are frankly retarded.

>>2698286

Free bumps everywhere.

>>2698269
Irrelevant. The point is to decentralize the movements. There will be no head to crush. They can not come after all of us, and if they go after a few, it only catalyzes the many.

>>2698269

>Implying I will read all that

REMEMBER VON NOTHAUS

that is the key to all of this.

Remember von NotHaus.

muh 1st amendment

>>2698300
Not only that, it'd be an international movement, by fixing something in the U.S, people all over could take from that and learn to fix shit in their own country.

There is after all, an almost complete global monopoly regarding privately owned national banks.

So, how on earth do we even achieve what no one has been able to do in the past century? Just educate the people? The people only care about trivial things that are easy to understand and to be fair anti-fed people come off as nutters. Also the fed's power scares me shitless.

>>2698318

You have a weapon they didn't: The internet.

>>2698316
Yes, it should be noted the US is not the only Nation with a central bank, and the only reason it is unique, is the USD's service as world reserve currency (petrol dollar).

anons in other nations should find out what their central bank is/issuer of currency, and do something similar, because their all owned and operated by the same crooks.

>>2698327
Which they monitor.

>Domestic Terrorism
>Domestic Terrorism
>Domestic Terrorism
>Domestic Terrorism
>Domestic Terrorism

Too late anons. We are living in a shithole. The system is too big and powerful and most of the people working for it will defend it with their lives.

>>2698294

Honestly, I don't give a fuck.

I'm proud of my country, I was willing to die for it. I was going to go to the Air Force Academy, but why?

To serve a puppet government oppressing the people and die in a proxy war?

Naw, I'm cool.

>>2698330
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/04/05/rothschilds-to-combine-french-and-british-assets/

>>2698252


Yeah, but I think 9/11 inside job is the perfect pretext buildup to the federal reserve. You get everyone riled up hating the fed...and good can happen, but then there will be those who simply think of it as a political issue and dont realize the severity of it.

9/11 hoax solves that because it attacks so deeply at the core, the foundations of americans belief in the gov't and the media. It completely blows it up in every JIDF and HBGary fags face.


I think we need to focus just as much of our attention on the fed, as we do 9/11 inside job threads.


Zeitgeist, minus the religion opening segment, is perfect. If only there were a condensed version.

>>2698327
This is incorrect. They have the internet as well.

What we have is power of majority, and truth. They have money and secrecy/lies.

The internet simply allows us to uncover truth, and organize majority.

>>2698311
For as intelligent as you are you sure aren't offering much in the way of suggestions.

>>2698327
>SOPA
>anti-net neutrality sentiments popping up
They know that the free market of ideas and easy flowing information could hurt them. I hate to come off as a tinfoil hat but I think I know who is trying to stop the internet

>>2698350
Its also filled with so much bullshit to explain the bullshit that actually convincing anyone is a God damned chore. I don't even believe the majority of "truther" bullshit, because you don't need the majority of the crap they pull out.

Some arabs got pissed off, so the US egged them on and allowed it to happen. Ta da. Falseflag attack, and the catalyzing event they need to initiate the war on terror (civil liberties)

>>2698318
I had a fascinating conversation with my father the other day.

Background: My dad voted Obama in 2008. He works for Fannie Mae (just as a tech management guy, but he was terrified his job was toast during the housing crisis). He defended TARP.

He told me the other day, in this conversation, "you know, however else I feel about the guy, I do think Ron Paul really understands the fundamental economics of a lot of government policy that the other candidates just don't seem to get."

I told him I was surprised at the comment, given most people ridicule Paul for being an Austrian nutter, and my dad being a Neo-Keynesian specifically. He told me he thought that Bernanke, like Obama, caught too much shit; he inherited a situation that was nigh impossible to fix and did what he had been taught to do to the best of his ability.

You want an average American perspective on the Fed? That's where we are. Nobody thinks it's EVIL... but they're beginning to see how it might be misguided regardless of that reality.

>>2698350
>Zeitgeist, minus the religion opening segment, is perfect.

imo the religous part makes the most sense. lol. enjoy your son worship pleb.

>>2698350
No.
Don't get this issue mixed up with 9/11, especially not before dealing with the fed.

Fed is a higher priority, not only that it's easier to approach because the media has been much less critical of people combating the federal reserve than it has truther movements for 9/11.

>>2698357
Absolutely, which is why we need to take every single attack on, or effort to control/regulate the internet as a personal assault. It is the one thing that enables us to do a damned thing in the wake of a criminal cartel that can literally print money.

>>2698367

>enjoy your son worship pleb.
>son worship

Jesus?

>>2698365
The average american's perspective on the fed is uniformed and and many still don't know what it does.

You guys enjoy this thread while you can before the american sheeple retards get online.


I would know, fellow NYC'er here.

>>2698391
>>2698391
>>2698391

>>2697935
>He watches pornography in which women are depicted.

So every man supports rape. Nice going.

>>2698391
I am a Texan and I see through this crap. Honestly moot should make a social politics board and an economics board.

>>2698337
REMEMBER VON NOTHAUS

"domestic terrorism" indeed.

>>2698365
I see this a lot in the Republican Party. People will say agree with him "but" he is crazy. It is either because media has shouted he can't get elected, which is true, given the integrity (or lack there of) in our voting machines, or because in all of 30 years in congress he has only passed one bill. For some reason people will not make the conclusion that may be indicative that he is the only guy talking sense, even when it would agree with their own ideology that the Government is corrupt to the core.

Just find common ground, and introduce them to a new idea. If you try to educate someone to everything right away it will be overwhelming and they will reject it. Just find common ground and relate it to the Fed.

"Because the Fed can literally print money _______".

Let their own curiosity and change in perspective take care of the rest.

>>2698356
He tried making his own silver dollars and got arrested when people started using them, bad things happened to him.

But think, what if we could get people to use something like silver on a larger scale? If you can get enough people using it then it might be hard to stop. As a benefit, Von Haus might end up free again.

>>2698391
Georgia resident, and I'm stacking silver. Fuck the Fed.

>>2698402
its pretty early, brother.

grab yourself a honey butter chicken biscuit and get out there!

>>2698356
>>2698356
"End the Fed" sounds like a Ron Paul campaign slogan, because it is.

"Remember von NotHaus" sounds like a rallying cry to freedom. I'ma tell that bitch to remember a person; bitches love being told to remember a person.

>>2698350
>>2698365
>>2698409

lol what is all of this shit? lol im just scrollin thru the thread laughing at the poeple who take this shit so serisously ahahaha go get so pussy bros! yu guys are up late ass hell writing novels about shit that doesnt even matter. i didnt even read with the thread is about lol im just laughing at you faggots cause ur so serious about this shit

>>2698417
>be 2007
>econ professor tells us to buy buy buy gold
>about to do it
>chicken out
I could be sitting on a good nest egg right now, enough to keep me out of starvation when the world collapses.

OK, i am too tired to function.

goodnight fellow men.

if the thread is still up in the morning, I pray for results.

If not, Ill start over again till Im b&

>>2698391

>Implying night won't fall again

Pic related.

>>2698438

Same, goodnight bro.

>>2698430
1/10
Pretty transparent.

>>2698430
>Average human

A few thousand neckbeards will change nothing. No one cares about this and no one of importance monitors this board

>>2698433
>when the world collapses.
lol.

Someone on /pol/ once said "I have 75oz silver and 2oz gold so far. How long will that last me when SHTF?"

/pol/ replied "75oz silver will buy you 75 bags of groceries. 2oz gold will buy you 2 bullets to the head in the middle of the night".

You know what the currency of choice will be when the world collapses? 9mm, .40SW, .45ACP.

>>2698438

dont you mean v&?


also, same here. tired as fuck. waiting for the ameritards to hijack the board again with cuckolding and tray topics.

>>2698430

>Those grammatical errors

I thought Jews were supposed to be smart.

>>2698466

>implying rifle ammunition won't be vastly more useful.

>>2698458
This, paranoid schizophrenia general.

>>2698467

God I hate daytime /pol/

I raised the idea of raising the marginal cost of printing dollars by making a fraction of their worth redeemable in gold.

You set an absolute bottom for the value of the dollar and put some physical limits on what the Fed can do.

Best of both worlds I think.

>>2698467

>Whitesareracist threads
>Other cuckolding faggot threads
>100+ replies

/pol/ is shit during the day.

>>2698476
Doesn't matter. Rifle ammo will be consumed in use too frequently to establish itself as currency. Handgun ammo will make better currency because everyone will have some use for it but it will tend to circulate more readily.

>>2698458

Yes, good goy, there is no need to get your jimmies rustled over this stuff.

You can't do anything about it anyways. No need to worry about it.

>>2698458

>No one cares about the future of America

As much as you samefag, the fact that this thread exists proves you wrong.

The internet can cause waves in the real world (i.e. the Chanology faggotry).

Your point is invalid. It has already begun, I guess the East Coast is waking up.

Later /pol/!

>>2698458
>>2698458
>>2698458
yup nothing to see here move along folks

>>2698488

They literally spend the entire time talking about how the white male in society today, or rather the media, is constantly attacked.

So what do they do? Not attack the jewmedia for trying to wipe out their race, no not at all.

Rather they make a trillion racist "niggers gon nig" threads.


lol @ jews constantly taking advantage of white people's moralfag tendencies.

>>2698458
It's reaching everywhere. What's a few thousand neckbeards, when they are added to many thousand professionals, college students/graduates, or even just a homemakers that stumble across some shit on facebook because their neckbeard brother/son posted a link. All of whom are spreading the information by word of mouth.

Simply hearing from one source doesn't work. It is when they hear the echo from a completely different source that you have a believer.

>>2698522
>>2698522
>>2698522
and thats what makes this place dangerous and therefore monitored.

hello dhs!!

I think what we really need is a Kony 2012-esque video that is simple to understand and most importantly, involves a call to action within a specific time frame.

It would also help if the creator doesn't smoke PCP and then jerk off in the middle of a public intersection.

I don't like banks. Why can't personal banking be a public utility? Then all the usury from loans could replace income tax. As for the Fed controlling the actual supply of money, I don't know if we can overthrow it, but I'd honesty be happy if we just got an audit, and more transparency.

>>2698560
>It would also help if the creator doesn't smoke PCP and then jerk off in the middle of a public intersection.

That makes everyone here ineligible.

>>2698560
while I do not like centralized movements, I would agree some common piece of media that people can freely distribute and point to would help a lot. It just seems like there is already so much material out there that if it were going to happen it already would have. Reality is, this shit scares people. Kony they could maybe donate, or write congress without radically changing their life.

How will this affect y benefits and entitlements?

>We are told to remember the idea, not the man, because a man can fail. He can be caught, he can be killed and forgotten, but 400 years later, an idea can still change the world. I've witnessed first hand the power of ideas, I've seen people kill in the name of them, and die defending them... but you cannot kiss an idea, cannot touch it, or hold it... ideas do not bleed, they do not feel pain, they do not love...

yeah i went there fags deal with it.

>>2698560

Ultimately, you get an us vs. them mentality with statist, which will always resolve in statist winning and nothing getting done.

Libertarians should start adopting a policy of total government, increasing both the power and representation in government as another check on the power of government.

So it's not 'End the Fed", but make the Fed more democratic.

>>2698591
Still pretty transparent.

>>2698591
>>2698591
which is why this board is most definitely monitored and why the "government" keeps trying to pass all these internet censorship bills.

the internet is BY FAR the best medium for exchange of ideas that has EVER. EVER. graced this planet. its like fuedal kings trying to destroy the printing press. they will try and they will fail.

ill probably end up on a watchlist for this but idc deal with it faggots.

>>2698521

It's mostly Stormfags that get trolled, then the threads are always on the front page so they get tons of replies.

I don't know when they'll learn, if ever, but if anything this showed me to not come on /pol/ when my American brethren are awake.

>>2698636
> the threads are always on the front page so they get tons of replies.
theyre up there for a reason. it keeps the proles distracted from the real issues. this forum could be the most influential ever but instead it gets dragged down into "muh dick"/"zomg koreans are east aryan"/"persians are white"/"trayvon martin"

>>2698572
This is interesting, effectively making an income tax optional for those whom elect to incur debt, but I'm not sure on all of the implications. Effectively making the Government our bankers, though in some sense they always should be (coin money from gold/silver), we get into all sorts of problems if money is not tied to something real. When you can literally pull something of "value" (can be exchanged for real goods and services) out of thin air the tendency toward printing as much as you want (never enough) is too real, and it all inevitably falls apart.

Anyone arguing about not enough gold/silver to support a 16+ trillion dollar economy is just retarded, since it is simply a matter of denomination. If money effectively becomes too valuable (not enough to go around) split the fucking coins. Spanish did this to create "pieces of 8". Let the markets determine the values.

I don't even like the idea of commodity backed PAPER because of the tendency toward fractional reserve lending.

>>2698590
It will effectively make them impossible, because the Government will be unable to incur regular debt to meet its obligations.

On the plus side, any money you acquire will literally be YOUR'S, and not something that has been promised to return to the Federal Reserve, with interest. So not only will your money have lasting value, but your PROPERTY will as well.

>>2698676
But the banks that are in power have more than 2/3 of the gold supply. Going on a gold standard would just give them more power.

The banks have us between a rock and a hard place that only silver could solve.

>>2698615
This.

Two things now make the absolute overthrow of tyranny possible.

One is the fully automatc rifle.
The other is the internet.

>>2698669

I suppose you're right, they focus on the unintelligent and sensationalist aspect of /pol/ instead of having real, intelligent discussions like we are.

They claim to be awake to the "NIGGER AND ZIONIST AND SPIC THREAT" but just get trolled by white people pretending to be blacks all day.

Hence where my name stems from...

>>2698676
Well...they can't pull it out of thin air now. They have to give up a dollar of debt for every dollar that the Fed puts into circulation. See >>2698204

>>2698600
>democratic

this is just mob mentality. Put the Fed to a vote and everyone votes themselves a million billion dollars, borrowed against the good faith of everyone else in the nation.

Democracy is socialism, by definition.

Hello, actual economist here, just to offer some help.

1. The Fed was created largely as a consequence of the panic of 1907. To understand why it came to be, you should research it.
The panic of 1907 was equally caused to the vested interested that own the Fed (Morgan, Rothschild, etc).

It was marketed to congress as a way to maintain the stability of the economy and prevent recessions/depressions. I do not think it will require much effort to argue against this point when Fed chairmen have admitted that the Fed was responsible for the great depression (it is irrelevant whether they meant to make it so, the point is they failed to fulfill their mandate of economic stability), as well as many of the recessions before then and now. And the Fed played a central role in creating the GFC.

2.. Now I'm not actually an American, so I can't speak a lot on whether the Fed is constitutional, however it doesn't seem to me logical that Congress can selectively create legislation which disregards the constitution - and for that to be ok. Then what is the point of the constitution?

>>2698723
3. I think the people supporting the Fed are trolling, but just in case, the Fed is definitely not necessary for economic stability nor economic growth. It arguably impairs growth during the best of times, and causes negative growth (recessions) during the worst of times.


The other thing which you need to bring it back to is the fact that the current monetary system which th Fed perpetuates is unsustainable. The best demonstration I have seen is the Crash Course (can find it on youtube).


Unfortunately none of these issues are simple - they are quite complex. Indeed if this were not so, the Fed would not have gotten away with what it does for so long. I doubt it's possible to get populous support against it when most Americans can't even locate country X on the map, or support one of Obama/Romney not realising they are equally bad.

>>2698707
The problem with debt backed currency is that the interest is never accounted for. Unless the money supply expands faster than the debt and interest incurred the year before it will collapse. Too many defaults, and yet you have a system of exponential growth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY

Fiat currency is neat, because you can simply "paper over" recessions and ease the pain, but that cost is pushed into the next "boom" period, meaning retarded growth. Which is why we have so many engineered bubbles. Without the booms our debt would completely hobble us.

>>2698160

I'll go pick it up tomorrow.

>>2698723
>>2698737
Hey Mr. Econ, do you purpose a straight ban on fiat currency? Do you really think returning to a precious metal standard is best?

>>2698723
>however it doesn't seem to me logical that Congress can selectively create legislation which disregards the constitution - and for that to be ok. Then what is the point of the constitution?

American here.

The Constitution is a tool which people lean on when the majority goes against their opinion and disregard when the majority is for their opinion.

Thus, a Republican wants to invade Uznakistan and Congress won't declare war? Oh, that's just a "police action", different thing. A Democrat wants a federal ban on handguns despite the 2nd Amendment? Oh, it's just for crime control, it's got nothing to do with "a militia".

See? The Constitution is something you follow when it suits you. Nobody actually adheres to it, except Amendment 1.

>>2698778
>except Amendment 1.

for now

>>2698761
It really depends.

There's a number of things that can be done outside of gold/silver, but I do not believe that humans are intelligent/economically developed enough yet to do these things.

Until economics because a true science, and until there is profound progress in the field of economics, I really do not think anyone should be messing with fiat currency.

So for the time being I think a return to gold standard is the best course of action, simply because economics is too young and immature to reliably provide us with anything better

>>2698746
Can I be honest here? Didn't know the Fed charged interest. I thought the debt was written down in a ledger somewhere (figuratively), and that was that.

>>2698815
What about >>2698572? Do you think personal banking could be a public utility?

>>2698778
If you study Jefferson and others who founded America, one of their key principles was that a representative republic was necessary because too often would the majority impose it's views on the minority

That is also why countries have a constitution. They are not menaingless words written on a piece of paper, they are ideals by which a country should be ran.

Considering that the majority don't understand economics (and that goes for the majority of economists as well), I do not see how you can be populist about the Fed.

>>2698816
uh. every american dollar that is printed is technically already owed to somebody... plus the interest that the US govt owes back to the fed for printing the money(or something insane like that).

basically its a system of never ending debt slavery. we cannot possibly ever pay off the interest on our money because every dollar printed creates more interest.

>>2698816

For the Economistbro, who exactly is paying for this interest, Us?

Isn't that just imaginary growth?

>>2698816
No, it loans money to Government/Banks, at interest (when they talk about the "Interest rates" on TV, this is what they are referring to). The problem is not simply that we must eventually give that money BACK to the Fed, but that we must do so, plus money that simply does not exist in the money supply (period). The idea is that new debts incurred will cover money supply for debts outstanding, but in practice this just means hyper-inflation is inevitable, OR those issuing the debt (The Fed) end up owning everything of legitimate value as it is taken from those who default.

I am of the opinion it is a system deliberately designed to deprive a Nation of all of its ACTUAL wealth, but whether you think there is malicious intent involved or not doesn't change the fact the system does not benefit the people.

>>2698847
Absolutely. That is how banking started, and that is what it will have to revert to.

Banking and corporations which have grew up around banking now command very high salaries for providing these so called "financial services". This is a great economic malinvestment and cannot continue forever. They do not create anything real within the economy, and it is debatable as to the benefits they provide.

I don't think this change will happen with any regulation either, as the banks will always find ways around it. Like all good things, it has to happen through free market forces whereby people systematically reject banks and go to credit unions and/or smaller, local banking institutions with good management for their banking needs.

So you see, we already have everything we need to make this change happen. Now people just need to be convinced it's for their benefit.

Then the greater financial services industry will suffocate because it won't have any money to parasitically live off.

>>2698897
Future debt holders, or their real material wealth (property).

>>2698522

You will all spam this tomorrow.

1)Create a fad
2)Create a Facebook page for it
3)Spam propaganda on /b/ and other boards
4)Attract Chanology moral fags
5)It will eventually spread to moral fags
6)Civil unrest grows
7)2012 elections pass
8)People realize nothing will change
9)????
10)PROFIT!!

>>2698913
>They do not create anything real within the economy
This really can not be stated enough, and the fact someone can reposes a car over something that never had any legitimate value in the first place, and could literally be pulled out of thin air is absurd.

On the other hand

>They do not create anything real within the economy

This does sound like a perfect job for Government.

>>2698925
so it goes to the next generation aka future debt holders. but theyre still gonna be paying the interest will the same money(aka already owed). therefore its a never ending cycle where the fed gets "rich" as fuck while everyone else(aka middle class) gets shat on?

>>2698934
gtfo astro

>>2698897
economistbro here

At the end of the day the people who work and are paid salaries pay this interest. Since service industries get their money from others, it can be said that fundamentally, all interest comes from those whop create real wealth (invent, build, produce, etc).

So those participants in the economy who produce real wealth will then have that wealth redistributed to employees, services industries, government through taxes, etc - and a good portion of it winds up with the "rent seekers" - those who charge interest on the money created.

The problem with this economic system is obvious. Because the monetary supply and thereby interest grows every year, what happens when it is no longer possible for whatever reason to not only continue creating wealth at the current pace - but more so to grow real wealth creation to keep up with interest growth?

>>2698925

So if I'm not in debt, do I still owe the state money? I saw on the debt clock that it has debt per-person, is that just an average or does everyone (underage b& included) have an imaginary debt they owe to the U.S. government?

I guess what I'm asking is, will they make up for it in another way? (some form of taxation, idk, I'm no economist)

What exactly does it mean when we can't raise the debt ceiling any higher? Why was there such a long pissing war in Congress over raising it when it was the only thing we could do?

Thanks for answering my questions, btw. I had some others, I'll post when I remember, it's late.

>>2698962

Oh I see, that's why we're so fucked right now, because it is working against and at the same time we are in a recession so there is not as much wealth being created, did I get the gist of it?

>>2698971
if you are a US citizen you are born into this land owing money to somebody.

>>2699006

So how is debt not a form of creating a social hierarchy? How are we any different from peasants?

That means that not all men are born equal in America if the son of a wealthy man is born free from this debt and the son of a poor man has to work it off..