this board is TOTALLY FUCKING SERIOUS
on a different note you're screwed, as soon as insurance finds out they will drop your ass faster than you can say pre-existing

You're fucked.

Enjoy your dead wife, amerifat.

Yeah, sorry that sucks.

Sorry, but I think you're kinda fucked. Those tests are the real kicker.

Insurance is spreading risk. It isn't a fucking risk if it's pre-existing.

The free market will fix it..

And now people are starting to remember why we wanted obamacare...

pre-existing conditions, not your or her fault, not the fault of society either. legal action against the universe is the only option left.

>>2360423
Yeah, but how the fuck am I supposed to pay for shit if she is sick? Fuck. Maybe it is time to leave the US. I came here ten years ago, and maybe it is time to leave.

there is widespread ignorance about what insurance is. Insurance is risk management. It is something you get to protect yourself from the risk of something happening which is unlikely to happen. You don't get it when you have something happen.

The bill is designed to destroy private insurance, utterly bankrupt it, so that they can create a totalitarian socialist healthcare system and dominate every aspect of our lives.

under a normal free market system, you would just pay in cash for treatment and not worry about having insurance. heart problems are very common and the industry would have grown to meet demand for heart treatment.

But in this insane quasi socialist system we have, which has limited the supply of doctors and medical schools and price fixed the industry and saddled it with third party payment schemes which distort market prices, you are stuck scratching your heard wondering what you can do.

>>2360502

Yeah, I guess it would be time. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

>>2360502


It is time to leave mate. When we'd rather let your wife die than make millionaires pay the same tax rate as the middle class, you know its time to leave

Ill come with you

Save up your money and get a replacement mail-order bride. Have her arrive early so your wife can teach her the tricks of the trade, you know, what you like for dinner and in bed.

The individual mandate is dead, but there's a good chance that the remainder of the bill could stay in place, which includes the portion that would have insurance companies keep your wife.

>>2360541
> so that they can create a totalitarian socialist healthcare system

You mean one in which people don't die in the streets because they were born with a genetic condition?

>>2360582

Why do assume that? Do you know why the USSR failed so hard?

>>2360571
>mail-order bride
I'm pretty sure the feminists already outlawed that

>>2360581
This is pretty much my last hope. Else I will have to find something else. I'm a recent Physics graduate. What are the possibilities in emigrating to a country like France?

>>2360394
>>2360447
>>2360423
Pretty much this.

Basically, what happens is insurance companies take a risk with each new person. The more people have insurance, the more the company can afford to take risks like insuring people with heart conditions or diabetes.

The public option in many countries takes care of this, since the government can get cheaper prices, but mostly because the risk pool is so fucking huge, with the majority of people having public care, that they can afford a lot.

Since every american knows the public option is communism and wants to murder their grandma, Obama wanted to make some changes to the laws to stop insurance companies from screwing people over. Primarily, they decided to make sure that more people would be covered, even if they had pre-existing conditions or the insurance companies thought it was a risk.

HOWEVER, to get this to make business sense, you need to widen the risk pool, so they added in the individual mandate, which would have meant that the majority would have had health care and helped to absorb the risks. But requiring someone to buy health insurance is evil socialism, whereas requiring someone to buy auto insurance is not.

So...
Yeah, amerifats are all fucked.

>>2360541
>The bill is designed to destroy private insurance

It's about fucking time. Death to the private insurance market. Utter failure of an industry that has become the problem it sought to fix.

>Buy insurance in case you get sick
>Get sick
>Lose your insurance

It's a feature, not a bug!

>>2360582
Much like the totalitarian school system that forces kids to learn to read?

>>2360604

I dont know, but its not exactly applicable. This is an entirely different situation because our healthcare infrastructure as it currently exists is entirely different from what the Russians or even our own system was like even 30 years ago.

>>2360541
also if you can't pay for it up front you py for it over time or you borrow money or maybe some doctor will do it for free. regardless the prices for treatment would be a lot lower than they are now. just like how the prices for goods are pretty low overall even though this is a country of 300 million people.

your best bet is to go to private hospitals overseas maybe.

>>2360604
Do you know why France has the number 1 ranked health care system in the world, and the USA is ranked 26th?

Hint: it's not "the liberal media"

>>2360634
our education system wastes a ton of money and is 80% of property taxes and is destroying the economy, btw. teaching kids to read is easy it doesn't require all this money they're taking for people.

>>2360634
it also forces them to learn that women are better than men and that white men are the cause of everything bad

>>2360673

Why are you qualified to say how much money it should take?

Those kind of threads always get swarmed with butt-fuck retarded conservaturds whose talking points and disinfo get utterly destroyed by facts and logic

Reality has a liberal bias (pic related)

>inb4 strawmen

>>2360676

I went to public school and I never learned any of that. In fact, I think your lying

>>2360640

Government is a monopoly. Monopolies are supposed to be bad things, aren't they?

>>2360688
COMMUNISM!
TOTALITARIANISM!
MUH FREEDOMZ!

>>2360688

>more cultural and racial homogeneity
>high standard of healthcare

Big surprise.

>>2360699
I'll admit I was being a bit hyperbolic. Also, this is a fairly recent trend, so if you went to school in the 80s or earlier, you probably avoided the worst of the brainwashing

>>2360715

>UK
>culturally and racially homogeneous

Try again faggot.

>>2360676
Well, it was white man who made thousands upon thousands of nukes. If they ever go off, the other things they did won't even matter.

>>2360703

Not necessarily. For some things, which are beyond what the private sector is currently able to handle, a collective publicly owned interest is the most efficient way to handle things.

Imagine, for instance, how a private company would have built a national highway system in the 50s. None would have had the resources, capital, or logistical capabilities to build a national highway system. And yet, its one of Americas most important pieces of infrastructure still to this day

The point is, sometimes the scale of the problem is too large to privately handle

>>2360754
Nope, free market will fix it. No exceptions.

>>2360728

I was born in the 90's and went through school probably from like 97 or 98 to 2011. Im in college now

Lets be honest, if we stole money to pay for everything everybody wanted all the time the economy would get nowhere, because there would be no accumulation of capital and hence a lack of wealth. I shouldn't have to pay for anybody's healthcare through a government, because not only is it a disincentive it's theft and it's unfair.

>>2360728

YUP, AND THERE WAS NO BRAIN WASHING AGAINST COMMUNISM IN THE 80s RIGHT?

>>2360728

High school class of 06 here. I definitely did not see anything like you described in my school.

>>2360779

Thats why you have this thing called the "public option"

Its where if you already have health insurance, you dont pay extra. If you dont have health insurance, you can pay for a government plan (which probably will be much cheaper)

While not quite as severe, I'm in a similar condition OP.

Thanks to Obamacare, I currently have insurance whereas otherwise I would not. (I turned 22 last year). I also have a pre-existing genetic condition which makes me a potentially high risk patient. If the law is scrapped, then not only would I lose the insurance that I currently have, but would likely not be able to acquire new insurance based on my health risks, or if I did then my rates would be severely jacked up.

The only positive out of this is that if they strike down the mandate (or the entire law) on the condition that Congress do something to make up for it, it leaves the door open for a stronger push for a sensible (single-payer) system to be put in place after the Democrats clean up the House in November.

>>2360779
Not buying health insurance and going to the emergency room is theft. The opposite of which is to be a responsjble person and insure yourself so that you don't make other people pay for you.

>>2360779
but... muh social contract...

>>2360779
Except you're already paying for other people's health care, and have been since they passed the ER act in the 80s. Moreover, you're paying for the single-payer government health care of the following:
>All of Congress
>All of the Supreme Court
>All of the White House

>>2360835
Left a few out:
>Old people
>Poor people
>Disabled people
>Veterans

>>2360835
so because theft is already occurring, that makes more theft okay?

>>2360779
Taxing isn't stealing, and it seemed to pay for our highways just fine. What's unfair is that my wife may die because I'm unable to pay for everything she needs right now. Fuck you.

>>2360826

Guess what man, you pay for it anyways. When people go to the emergency room, they dont get turned down--even with no insurance

This means people go to the emergency room all the time for things that could easily be prevented with simple preventative care.

Heres the catch. Preventative care is exponentially cheaper than emergency room visits

>>2360784
That wasn't brainwashing. Those were freedom lessons, commie scum.

>>2360797
Yes you do pay extra through taxes and inflation. Do you think health treatment, medicines and doctor's appointments are free? No they cost money, and the government can not create wealth so it only has two options and those are to raise taxes or indirectly tax the people by created inflation and printing money out of thin air to pay for those services. So even if I have my own private health provider I'm still hypothetically paying into public healthcare against my will.

>>2360856

So you want to turn them away at the ER too then?

If thats your stance, then thats as far as this conversation needs to go

>>2360856
Show me a functioning society without taxes. Go on, I'll wait.

Or do you consider paying rent to be theft as well?

>>2360876
*creating

>>2360876

No your not. The only people paying for the public option system are the ones using it. Its like its own private healthcare provider, that just happens to be run by the govt

>have serious pre-existing condition
>complain about not getting insurance

no shit idiots, if you barely paid anything then why should they cover all the treatment? if they did that then nobody would buy insurance until they actually needed it. they'd go bankrupt.

>>2360754

Nope. Maybe there wouldn't of been a national highway system, but what would've been made instead? Rail? Who knows. If there's demand and it's profitable to supply, then it'll be supplied. And it's important to remember that unprofitability means there's a better use of resources.

There's no reason to assume government has a bigger capability than market organizations. Government is made of people, too. They aren't superhumans.

>>2360905
Are you ignorant or just lying? I already pay for medicare, and medicaid out of my paycheck. What makes you think I won't be paying for this through direct taxation and indirect taxation through monetary inflation?

>>2360911

Theyre not super humans, but they are the only ones with jurisdiction and frankly, the only ones the desire for investment sometimes.

Tell me, what company would have been able, in the 50s, to design and build the system? For which company would it have been a sound investment?

>>2360938

Medicare and medicaid are not part of a public option system.

>>2360911
Actually there's good reason to believe govt can do rhings private business can't. The govt has purchasing power on a scale no company can equal. Govt also has better reasons to invest in public goods. Why would a companu invest in roads I'd they mostly benefit their competitors? Roads are something private industry just does not invest in. They never have and never will. Some things may be good for society while being wholly unprofitable.

>>2360968

So if there the only once with desire, that means they aren't doing anything that people want. Don't fall for util mysticism.

One that could've profited by making it. UPS and FedEx didn't always exist. Would you dismiss the possibility of global parcel delivery the moment before they were founded?

>>2361053
Spooner mail was run out of business because the government wanted to keep their monopoly on mail.

>>2361053

What mysticism is there? Dont try and act like some wise man that knows the mystical ways of the magical government. The system is built, and it is effective.

Now I will ask you this. Would a starting company, or even a railroad company, have the capital to invest in a road system? What would it look like? Would only UPS vehicles be allowed to use it?

>>2361010

Roads would benefit them, too. Why would business be in malls? That benefits competitors but we still have malls.

Oh and never have? Never heard of a turnpike?

And value is subjective. There's no mystical unit of util whom we need to maximize.

>>2361100

The turnpikes are based on publicly designed models. They are also integrated into the public system and made to be compatible with it. Your grasping at straws

>>2361094

Utils are a mystical notion. A unit of utility that we are just containers of. Our sole purpose is to maximize their abudance. You know, utilitarianism.

There's principles. Do you get that?

If there was a profitable chance for a company to build national roads, then they would've built capital to do it. Pretty ad hoc.

>>2361010
>purchasing power

government has no money. It takes money from others.

>roads

of course businesses want roads.

you people are completely economically illiterate buffoons. you think just because you graduated from a socialist public school that you know anything about economics? you are brainwashed.

>>2361100

We have malls because we know that if we give up some of our individuality to pool our successes and invest together, that our return will be much bigger than it could have on our own

This is the concept of government

>>2361137

Nice, shifting the goalposts from "never".

>>2361141

So then why didnt they? Why do you think that private means are the only means for effectively doing anything?

>>2361155

No, government isn't cooperating.

Is a club government?

What's the difference between government producing apples and a business producing apples?

>>2361141
The great northern railroad was built without subsidy.
>The Great Northern was the only privately funded, and successfully built, transcontinental railroad in United States history. No federal land grants were used during its construction, unlike every other transcontinental railroad built. It was one of the few transcontinental railroads to avoid receivership following the Panic of 1893.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Northern_Railway_%28U.S.%29

>>2360365
No, you're NOT fucked, don't listen to these assholes.

What state do you live in?

Most states have a "high risk pool" policy. The state will absorb some of the cost of treatment and they will accept people who have preexisting conditions rendering them uninsurable by private companies. Usually the rate you pay is capped at 1.5x what the market-at-large would charge.

Look into it for your state. Also many states which do not offer such a policy have partnered with a private charitable foundation which does the same.

>>2361161

I didnt shift any goal posts. Now your talking about a company which specifically builds roads for public use. Granted, that exists, but why is it intrinsically better than the public system?

The answer is its not better and its also not worse. Its just that the govt sector is also not any better and not any worse. The govt has an advantage on the private industry in that it already has capital raised, and is already logistically capable of taking on projects at a national scale

>>2361169

Crowding out.

Because value is subjective and voluntary interactions are mutually beneficial.

>>2361180

Why would you assume that the success of the railroad relied on the fact that it was private?

A railroads success has everything to do with the success of the businesses on its lines. It might have no relation to the railroad company at all

>>2361196

But should it have they capital in the first place? And should it even keep the capital it has?

>>2361235

Yes, otherwise whats the point of having it?

I do think that what the government offers is worth the negative side effects that come with it

I also believe that what makes government bad is the same thing that makes private industry bad; people taking advantage of the system and hurting other people.

>>2361228

>In keeping with his philosophy of encouraging the prosperity of the people residing in the vicinity of his railroad, Hill publicized his views on the importance of crop diversification to the farmers of the region. He didn't want them to become dependent on a single crop and therefore subject to the uncertainties of price fluctuation, as the southern cotton farmers were.[10] Hill also provided free seed grain — and even cattle — to farmers who had suffered from drought and depression; stockpiled wood and other fuel near his train depots so farmers could stock up when returning from a delivery to his trains; and donated land to towns for parks, schools, and churches.[11] He transported immigrants to the Great Plains for a mere ten dollars if they promised to farm near his railroad, and he sponsored contests for the beefiest livestock or the most abundant wheat. His "model farms" educated farmers on the latest developments in agricultural science. All of this generated goodwill with the local communities and was also good for business.

Folsom, Entrepreneurs vs. the State, 27.

[10] Ibid., 90.

[11] Ibid., 91.

>>2361235
Who cares?
No one is going to put your radical social experiment into practice in the first place.

>>2361228
>succeeds despite not getting free money for development
>survives recession/depression
>proves that transportation can be successfully privatized

>>2361255

There is no point besides mass stupidity. There's no reason to have an institution on the initiation of force, unless you don't have a problem with robbery and the like.

>>2361260

Sounds like he was doing a real public service for all those farmers. A fine example for what private industry can do if it would be more willing to invest in its consumers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUS1m5MSt9k

>>2361272

Well thats a statement, but not a fact, and happens to be where we disagree

While I agree that government can be awful, its not awful in any way that private companies arent awful

>>2361283

You should check out public choice economics.

>>2361283
Do you know why congress is given the power to declare war, and not the president?

>>2361313

Cause no one man should have all dat powa

Thats why we break up huge companies by giving corporate power to shareholders

Private Insurance companies make money by taxing healthy people and not paying sick people. It's why half of the retarded fucks on this board saying "MY INSURANCE COMPANY IS GREAT SO WHY DO WE NEED SOCIALIZED HEALTH CARE?" are complete foaming-at-the-mouth retards. It's great now, but when you get sick and need them, you're the one that is going to be eating shit.

As for your wife, terribly sorry to hear about that. May I suggest scraping together the money you may be spending on insurance to buy a plane ticket to Canada?

>>2361272
>There's no reason to have an institution on the initiation of force, unless you don't have a problem with robbery and the like.

Except that doesn't logically follow at all.
Do you like having sex?
Yes?
Then I guess that means you're ok with rape then amirite?

>>2361342
Once again, fuck you and everyone like you.

OP almost certainly has access to non-profit (and non-tax-funded) high-risk health insurance in his state of residence if he is willing to pay slightly above market rates for his wife's coverage.

OP! Please, have a read. You CAN BE COVERED WITHOUT OBAMACARE, though it may not be through a "mainstream" private company.

http://www.healthinsurance.org/risk_pools/

There are phone numbers for the risk pool in each state where one is available.

>>2361382
>OP almost certainly has access to non-profit (and non-tax-funded) high-risk health insurance in his state of residence if he is willing to pay slightly above market rates for his wife's coverage.

>I know this because I have a axe to grind on the internet.

I'm glad you're trying to help, but those companies don't have much of a better track record on per-existing conditions either.

>>2361382

Part of Obamacare is establishing "marketplaces" on the internet where insurance companies can register and have their insurance plans available for side by side comparison.

Purchasing healthcare can be frustrating for many people because they dont know where to look to find legitimate plans. An insurance "mall" would make the whole experience better, and help consumers buy find plans that better fit their needs (on the basis that there will be more options represented)

>>2361334
Correct after a fashion. The founders recognized that sovereign executives often bankrupted nations and implemented draconian laws during wartime, so by investing the power to declare war in the congress the people (who are sovereign in the US) would have more control over it.

Corporations diffuse responsibility and ownership in to the boards, to allow for businesses that wouldn't exist any other way.

>>2361382

>each state
>where theres one available

And thats the job of the federal govt. Establishing them in states that dont have them...

>>2361441
no ssshhhhh, you're going to break his little fantasy of a libertarian utopia where everyone is covered for only pennies a day everywhere because of the good will of non-profits.

>>2361415
Except, you know, they don't deny coverage based on pre-existing conditions and that's their ENTIRE REASON FOR EXISTING. thanks for playing.

>>2361349

Two categories of interaction: voluntary and involuntary. Two categories of involuntary interaction: aggressive and defensive

Rape is involuntary/aggressive.
Robbery is involuntary/aggressive.
Extortion is involuntary/aggressive.
Government is a monopoly on the initiation of force. The initiation of force is involuntary/aggressive interaction.

What the government is supposed to do can be provided with voluntary interactions. No reason to have involuntary/aggressive interactions. Contradictory to have a defensive services provided by institutionalized aggressive force.

>>2361463

Your awfully quick to get on your high horse, especially considering the argument revolves around the fact that those services arent available in every state, which is part of the federal govts job

>>2361424
Free websites already exist where this can be done. I myself used one to shop for healthcare. Compare by price, user rating, size, and more.

>>2361441
i was just telling OP it'd be easier to move states than leave America. But you're right, let him flounder to win an argument. Why help him out when there are axes to be ground?

>>2361475
Way to completely miss the point.
Here I'll make another sex analogy.
If you like having sex then you obviously don't mind letting anyone have sex with you.

I LIKE when the government shoots anarchists like you. That doesn't necessarily mean I support someone coming around and shooting me.

>das hypocritical
Hardly. I just don't place any value on your life while valuing my own which is why your little voluntary bullshit is doomed to fail, because people like me will always ruin it for you.

Go push your little cult bullshit somewhere else.

Health Economics | Timothy Terrell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnsFy8UTosk

>>2360655
I know exactly why. They have caps in place to prevent abuse of the system that are impossible here.

>>2361578

So you aren't owed an argument nor believe in property rights?

>>2361605
I don't believe in rights at all.

>>2360804
Except you're forgetting that Obamacare won't be for everyone. Like if you're an illegal immigrant gangbanger, you'll get first dibs on medical treatment if you get your eye gouged out in a prison yard fight. Meanwhile, your grandmother who has cancer gets nothing because she's of no use to the new world order.

Move to Canada, asap OP.

BUT

What I heard thrown around was that even if the main health mandate is overturned, the pre-existing conditions portion may stay. In fact most of the bill would stay, as its 2500 pages long and they dont want to deal with the whole bill.

As I see it, there's only finite HC resources and not giving it free to everyone prevents exploitation of the system and ensures said resources are limited to actual medical emergencies.

>>2361633

Why do you engage in argumentation if you don't believe in rights?