Posting mode: Reply
[Return] [Bottom]
Name
E-mail
Subject
Comment
Verification
reCAPTCHA challenge image
Get a new challenge Get an audio challengeGet a visual challenge Help
File
Password(Password used for file deletion)
  • Supported file types are: GIF, JPG, PNG
  • Maximum file size allowed is 3072 KB.
  • Images greater than 250x250 pixels will be thumbnailed.
  • Read the rules and FAQ before posting.
  • このサイトについて - 翻訳

  • File: 1331624940.jpg-(20 KB, 375x500, richard-dawkins[1].jpg)
    20 KB Atheists are Racist? Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)03:49 No.2085903  
    Is Richard Dawkin a racist? Why aren't more atheists racist? If they don't believe in god, then they don't believe that all men are created equal.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)03:50 No.2085913
    Logically fallacy.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)03:50 No.2085922
    >>2085903If they don't believe in god, then they don't believe that all men are created equal.

    I don't follow, religion didn't claim men were created equal, Thomas Jefferson did. Consult the bible for the "sons of ham" or the Book of Mormon for why black people don't have souls.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)03:53 No.2085939
    >>2085903
    Because he's a fucking biologist and there is no fundamental difference between races, we are one specie you moron, that's why he isn't racist, because he is more educated than you and know more than you. Most of the people here are trolling when they say they are racist but I know there is someone somewhere who visits /pol/ and takes shit here for facts, I just fucking know it.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)03:53 No.2085943
    Inequality != racism. If you think that people are born equal then you're fucking retarded. Go to your city's projects if you don't believe me.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:00 No.2085995
    >>2085943
    I am not even talking about inequality. When I say "racism" I meant, superiority of one race, in terms of genes, intellect. Don't even start with me about "race" is just a social construct. Obviously, there is variation in genes, that's why our skin colors, hair and eyes are different. You don't think brain capacity would be different too? even if it is slightly?
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:01 No.2086004
         File: 1331625716.png-(859 KB, 1538x429, 1318000672794.jpg.png)
    859 KB
    >>2085939

    >no fundamental difference between races
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:02 No.2086005
    This might be the dumbest thread on 4chan right now.

    Well crafted, young idiot.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:02 No.2086010
    >>2085995
    You are a moron who never had a biology course. Phenotype != Genotype, first biology class. And read >>2085939
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:03 No.2086016
    All men are not born equal.

    But all men should get equal treatment under the law.

    There, now delete this shitty thread.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:03 No.2086021
    >>2085922
    >black people don't have souls
    but gingers do
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:03 No.2086022
    >>2086004
    Fuck, that doesn't mean shit, we are the same specie moron.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:04 No.2086031
    Op helps remind us how fucking retarded religious people really are.
    >> animal !eeDbeu1Bp. 03/13/12(Tue)04:05 No.2086034
    >>2086004
    >implying those don't look the same
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:06 No.2086043
    >>2085939
    >We are one specie.
    Sure, we are. We are one species; human species. But If "subspecies" is used as biological classification for other species why can't we use on human species? The differences between subspecies are usually less distinct than the differences between species, that's why we call it subspecies.
    >> animal !eeDbeu1Bp. 03/13/12(Tue)04:07 No.2086046
    >>2086043
    Sure, but what's the point in arguing about it?
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:07 No.2086049
    >>2086010

    And that refutes what he said how?

    >>2085903

    It's not popular. You focus on only one issue at a time.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:07 No.2086050
    >>2086031
    Scrap religious people, make that most of the fucking population. Fuck I'm mad at this shit, OP rustled my jimmies well and rustled cock as well.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:08 No.2086054
    >>2086031
    Assuming that op is religious.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:08 No.2086055
    >Implying you need to believe in god in order to realize we are all technically one organism called the human race
    >Implying us being equal is not obvious without needing to believe in fairy tales
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:09 No.2086056
    >>2085903

    Racists have lower IQs than average:

    http://www.livescience.com/18132-intelligence-social-conservatism-racism.html
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:09 No.2086062
    >>2086049
    Sorry, I forgot to quote, I meant to answer this post of his >>2085995
    >Hurr we blue eyes
    >must have bigger brainz as well
    Fucking typical uneducated moron piece of shit.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:10 No.2086065
    >implying it's justification for not treating an individual with respect and providing him with the same legal rights.
    >> Givemeyourmoneyamerica 03/13/12(Tue)04:11 No.2086072
    >Why aren't more atheists racist?

    Most PEOPLE aren't even racist nowadays. Sure you do get the odd racist...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Metzger_(white_supremacist)

    ...Who also happens to be an atheist

    http://www.celebatheists.com/wiki/Tom_Metzger
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:12 No.2086076
    >>2086046
    >Sure, but what's the point in arguing about it?
    The point? The point is that it is scientifically and socially acceptable to classify Africans and Asians as sub-humans.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:13 No.2086079
    >>2086076

    what about mexicans?
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:13 No.2086082
    >>2086076
    I think that would be caucasians, arab, white, persian and north indian scum. We asians are better than you in every way.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:13 No.2086083
         File: 1331626406.jpg-(39 KB, 450x338, oh-you.jpg)
    39 KB
    OP did you do any research at all

    this is just sad trolling try harder next time

    1/10

    i give you 1 i feel bad for you
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:13 No.2086084
    >>2086062

    That doesn't even make sense.
    >> animal !eeDbeu1Bp. 03/13/12(Tue)04:13 No.2086086
    >>2086076
    >scientifically and socially acceptable to classify Africans and Asians as sub-humans.

    aww shit nigga you fucked up dere
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:14 No.2086092
    >>2086056

    http://wmbriggs.com/blog/?p=5118
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:16 No.2086100
    >>2086043
    The amount of genetic difference determines whether they're called subspecies or races. In the case of humans, the genetic difference is insignificant, so the groups are called races.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:16 No.2086101
    >>2086084
    OP is saying that since we have different eye color, hair color and skin complexion, we have different brains. I'm telling that phenotype is not equal to genotype.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:17 No.2086109
    >>2086100
    This, finally someone who knows his fucking shit. Thank God (I realise the irony)
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:18 No.2086112
    >>2086101

    And that matters because? The main issue for races is whether or not all races are equally intelligent. If so, what about Australian abbos and African pygmies?
    >> animal !eeDbeu1Bp. 03/13/12(Tue)04:20 No.2086122
    >>2086112
    Abos are actually really cool people.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:22 No.2086135
    >>2086062
    Why not? If our apparent are different, if our body structures are build differently, our eyes, sexual organs (black dicks), you don't think our brains are built slightly better? What makes you so sure that white are not improved version of black, Asian or Mexicans, through evolutionary process?
    >> animal !eeDbeu1Bp. 03/13/12(Tue)04:23 No.2086143
    >>2086135
    >What makes you so sure that white are not improved version of black, Asian or Mexicans, through evolutionary process?

    From a purely evolutionary perspective, East Asians are superior as they're outbreeding us.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:23 No.2086145
    >>2086135

    This has to be a troll
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:25 No.2086152
         File: 1331627126.jpg-(79 KB, 625x425, 6a00d8341bf67c53ef0133f51209a0(...).jpg)
    79 KB
    >>2086135
    After all, most of the world's most brilliant human have been white.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:29 No.2086175
    >If they don't believe in god, then they don't believe that all men are created equal.

    No, but if you just get rid of the one word that causes problems you get:

    >they believe that all men are equal.

    No Chosen People. No God who plays favorites. Just the simple reality of organisms adapting to their circumstances. It's really easy not to be a racist that way.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:29 No.2086177
    >>2086135
    “It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.” --Charles Darwin
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:33 No.2086209
    >>2086092

    >a blog

    Your source is pathetic.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:35 No.2086217
    >>2086177

    >“It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.” --Charles Darwin

    Darwin was not exactly right. The optimal balance between stability and plasticity over universal learning surfaces is provably unknowable. Responsiveness to change, like intelligence, strength, speed or any other characteristic, is sometimes beneficial and sometimes not.

    So in the end, the ones who survive are mostly the ones who are lucky. Locally beneficial traits inevitably turn out to be only locally beneficial, in the long run.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:35 No.2086223
    >>2086135

    In evolutionary terms there is no "improvement". "Fittness" is measured purely in terms of the number of offspring you produce.
    >> animal !eeDbeu1Bp. 03/13/12(Tue)04:37 No.2086236
    >>2086217
    Which is why whites are slowly being outbred
    Classy.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:41 No.2086257
    >>2086223

    Blacks produce more children than whites. In evolutionary terms blacks are "fitter" than whites.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:45 No.2086287
    >>2085903
    he looks like a British Hitler in that picture
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:45 No.2086289
    >>2086209

    >Your source is pathetic.

    lol what?

    Did you even bother reading what the author had to say?
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:49 No.2086315
         File: 1331628569.jpg-(19 KB, 474x310, 2012-02-28t220457z_1_btre81r1p(...).jpg)
    19 KB
    Richard Dawkins is a Racist

    He still lives on a massive estate paid for by plantation slaves.

    Plus he dickrides ma fellow white people
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:49 No.2086320
    >>2086257
    and yet they also have the highest rate of deaths among infants. even in a developed nation like america, blacks have the lowest lifespan out of anyone.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:51 No.2086331
    >>2086209

    And it's worse than commentaries made by journalist how?
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:54 No.2086352
    >>2086223
    >>"Fittness" is measured purely in terms of the number of offspring you produce.

    No it isn't. It's about being able to pass on your genes.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:57 No.2086373
    >>2086223
    >In evolutionary terms there is no "improvement".

    maybe, if were just thinking about the ability to create an offspring that have you as ancestor for a long period of time; but it seems that doesn't mean improvement can't occur due to evolution. it can occur depending on what is believed to be good (or if talking about a greater ability to do something regardless of if it is moral). for example, if some animals had a tendency to violently torture and be cruel to some animals they ate, but then they evolved and they didn't do this to animals because it was now impossible for them to do this because of the evolving, would you think this is an improvement?
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:58 No.2086380
    >>2086352
    then that means blacks have the best genes.

    black mates with white = black baby
    black mates with asian = black baby with chinky eyes

    basically blacks mating with anyone, the child comes out dark with curly hair.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:58 No.2086382
    >>2086043
    We are ALREADY a subspecies, Homo sapiens sapiens. Do you really want to add on another bloody word.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)04:58 No.2086384
    >>2086236

    >Which is why whites are slowly being outbred

    It's not clear that white people have any special traits at all, and there is strong evidence against. Before the 3rd century AD, the differences between white people and others in standards of living and material culture were very small. Then, for 1500 years, white people were demonstrably technologically backwards and had lower standards of living than most of the rest of the world. And their numbers were few and their lands very small - one rather pitiful and marginal end of one continent, where they were invaded by non-white outsiders every couple of centuries and usually only repelled them by retreating into places no one would want to live anyway.

    That period ended somewhere between 300 and 500 years ago. That's simply not enough time to see white people evolve into something meaningfully different from their clearly inferior ancestors.

    Now, you can take this two ways:

    1. White people got lucky, and through some fluke managed to overcome their inherent inferiority, but now the rest of the world has just about caught up and white people are going back to being humanity's trash. This theory is well supported by historical research, ample evidence, and is in some form held by most professional historians, who disagree on exactly what it was that gave whites a temporary boost, but usually agree that it has something to do with steam engines.

    2. This whole rhetoric of racial superiority is bullshit, and people are all more or less biologically the same across races and cultures.

    I don't see a third choice. If I were white, I think I'd push #2 really hard.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:02 No.2086406
         File: 1331629332.jpg-(26 KB, 362x680, dawkinstarwars.jpg)
    26 KB
    Let the hate flow through you!
    A glimpse of things to come under Richard Dawkin's Empire
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:02 No.2086407
    >>2086384
    >>people are all more or less biologically the same across races and cultures.

    Citations needed. It's hard to accept that when you consider iq is fairly consistent among races no matter what nation they're from. Also explain Australian abbos and African pygmies.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:03 No.2086413
    >>2086384
    Actually anybody who is not a retard would push #2 because #1 is biologically and historically unsound. And buddy white people were ruling the world long before steam engines.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:03 No.2086415
    >>2086407
    studies have also shown that blacks adopted by white families also score poorly on IQ tests.

    >but but IQ tests were written by whites and thus biased towards whites
    yet asians consistently score slightly higher than whites
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:05 No.2086429
    >>2086413
    nope, while whites were still living in huts and chucking spears, the chinese had written history and had a civilization going.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:07 No.2086435
    >>2086429
    So? that proves absolutely nothing. What race does well when has far more to do with geography and climate than your pathetic 'white people are retards' fantasy.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:08 No.2086444
    >>2086413

    >Actually anybody who is not a retard would push #2 because #1 is biologically and historically unsound. And buddy white people were ruling the world long before steam engines.

    No, white people did not rule the world until, at the earliest, 1750.

    In 1750, Africa was ruled by Africans, outside of a small pocket around Cape Town. Asia was ruled by Asians, outside of some small enclaves of Dutch and Portuguese traders. White people ruled Europe, the Caribbean, the eastern coast of North America, and most of what's now Latin America.

    My history is sound. Now, you can argue that using that history to draw conclusions about the evolutionary unfitness of white people is unsound, but I don't see how you can do so without rejecting arguments for the evolutionary superiority of whites too.
    >> Muslim 03/13/12(Tue)05:09 No.2086450
    I dont think most religions actually say everyone is equal.
    >>2086004
    That feel when your old OC comes up.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:09 No.2086451
    >>2086429

    And asians are pretty smart. We know that and no one disagrees. The question is, if all races are the same, why don't they all perform the same when put in the same culture?
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:10 No.2086455
    >>2086444
    And why would you assume I was trying to imply they are 'evolutionarily superior'? What is wrong with you? Every race is adapted to its environment.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:13 No.2086466
    >>2086451
    i wasn't saying all races are the same, i was saying the exact opposite. basically stating that there are intelligence differences among the races just like there are physical differences.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:15 No.2086489
    >>2086289

    The author of that blog obviously hasn't read the peer reviewed Paper.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:15 No.2086492
    >>2086451

    >why don't they all perform the same when put in the same culture?

    Because the people they get stuck with when dropped into a new culture don't acknowledge them as the same or treat them equally.

    The experiment you want to do is one that can't be done: Create an all-black clone of white American culture, and see if black people born into it perform the same way that white people perform in white American culture. That experiment is impossible, but the stand-in measures are not able to extract the consequences of history, existing prejudice, and institutional racist barriers.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:16 No.2086499
    >>2086352

    >No it isn't. It's about being able to pass on your genes.

    That is the same as having children, you total fucking idiot.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:17 No.2086504
    >>2086489

    Links to the peer reviewed paper then.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:17 No.2086508
    >>2086499

    No it isn't. You need to survive in order to pass on your genes.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:18 No.2086520
    Your original statement is fucktarded.

    However
    Its usually because most atheists are hipster liberal scum.

    Real atheists are racist to a certain degree, but only from the perception of liberals. We just acknowledge the obvious differences between the different breeds of humans, not unlike one would notice different breeds of dogs.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:20 No.2086529
    >>2086492

    Nah, asians and whites generally do well everywhere, whereas blacks underperform everywhere. This is true in all developed nations and across cultures including japan, canada, sweden, ect.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:20 No.2086534
    >>2086492
    yea, except asians perform higher than whites here in america. asians have faced a lot of discrimination over the course of america's history from the chinese exclusion act to the internment of japanese-americans, etc. it just doesn't seem like they faced much discrimination because they don't constantly bitch about it and bring it up when something doesn't go their way.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:21 No.2086537
    >>2086373

    An "improvement" is a value judgment. Fitness, in evolutionary terms, is measured purely by the amount of offspring you produce.

    A black guy who has 5 kids and dies in a gangland shooting aged 20 is "fitter" than a white physicist who has two kids and lives to 90.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:25 No.2086564
    >>2086504
    >>2086504

    Here's a link to the peer reviewed scientific Paper, as published by the respected journal: "Psychological Science". The research was conducted by two Professors from Brock University, Gordon Hodson, PhD and Michael A. Busseri, PhD.

    http://pss.sagepub.com/content/23/2/187
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:26 No.2086565
    >>2086537
    you know most black men dont die by getting shot. most die in their 30's-40's from heart disease and diabetes. also obesity is the highest among the black americans than anyone else.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:27 No.2086578
    >>2086508

    If you've had children you have, by definition, survived a sufficient amount of time to have passed on your genes.. You idiot.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:28 No.2086582
    >>2086529

    >whites generally do well everywhere

    Alas, no. Mixed race white/Asians do worse on standardized tests in all of Pacific Asia and no better than average in India. China's white minority - a group of some 15,000 Russian settlers who have been in China for a century and a half and are not racially mixed - actually score well below the average for Chinese people. Ethnically German and Japanese settlers in Latin America do not have significantly higher IQs than their neighbors.

    Assimilated black people in Canada - those with at least two generations on Canadian soil - have incomes higher than the Canadian average, and are likely to be better educated than white Canadians.

    This tends to undermine broad conclusions of that kind.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:29 No.2086585
    >>2085943
    This.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:30 No.2086592
    >>2086565

    >most die in their 30's-40's from heart disease and diabetes.

    Citation?

    Also, whether they die in there 30s, or not, is irrelevant. Fitness is measured purely in terms of the amount of offspring you produce. Blacks have more kids than whites, they are, in evolutionary terms, fitter than whites.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:32 No.2086603
    >>2085943

    ?

    Who has said people are born equal?
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:32 No.2086607
    >>2086592
    except in today's world the amount of kids you have has a direct negative correlation with the education level of the parents. which means stupid people are having a lot of kids which they can't afford while the smart educated ones do not have many kids.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:32 No.2086610
    >Racism is the belief that inherent different traits in human racial groups justify discrimination.
    Discrimination? No
    Are their differences? Yes
    But is you take tall, medium and short people, (instead of black, white, and asian) you will find one group is smarter, one is healthier etc
    Oh and I don't care if op is a troll I'm posting anyway
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:34 No.2086627
    >>2086607

    Blacks have lower IQs, as do conservatives and racists.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:35 No.2086638
    >>2086564

    The author of the blog pulled information directly from the study. Did you even read the blog? If anyone didn't read it it's the guys from live science.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:36 No.2086652
    >>2086627

    The correlation between racist and iq is .01.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:37 No.2086655
    >>2086627
    People that resort to ad hominems instead of arguing the point also have fairly low IQs I hear.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:37 No.2086660
    >>2086607

    A lot of "smart" and "educated" people could have many, many children and be able to afford it. You are implying being smart and educated is an evolutionary disadvantage.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:38 No.2086664
    >>2086610
    >Racism is the belief that inherent different traits in human racial groups justify discrimination

    maybe thats what we need for the sake of black people. do we find something wrong with putting "special needs" students in a different classroom? no, if they were in the same classroom, they would either fall way behind the normal students or bring down the level of teaching of the entire classroom,.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:40 No.2086677
    >>2086660
    when it comes to having lots of kids, i guess being educated is a disadvantage. but its not like the old days where you needed to have a lot of kids to help tend to your farm or whatever.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:40 No.2086683
    >>2086655

    How is that an ad hominem? It's a statement based on scientifically derived evidence:

    http://pss.sagepub.com/content/23/2/187
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:43 No.2086708
    >>2086683
    niggers and racists just got owned
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:43 No.2086711
    >>2086655

    hhmmm... I guess you don't know what an ad hominem is.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:44 No.2086723
    >>2086683
    to be fair, if you didn't know about that thing it does sound like an insult
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:47 No.2086740
    >>2086723

    An insult isn't an ad hominem. An ad hominem is when the insult is used to undermine the position of a interlocutor. Anon had no idea if he was responding to either a racist, or a conservative.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)05:55 No.2086777
    >>2086740
    I know what an ad himinem is, I was just not typing the whole thing out, an act of typing lazyness that has been undone by my having to relpy
    argh why do I even care what you think of me lol!
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)06:12 No.2086878
    >>2086777
    >himinem
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)06:13 No.2086881
    >>2086777

    It's spelled "ad Eminem" and means rhyming smackdowns and yo-mama-so-fat jokes.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)06:16 No.2086892
    >>2086878
    >>2086881
    oh for fuck sake
    I even noticed that and though "I'll go back and do that once I've finished the sentace"!
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)06:20 No.2086903
    >>2086892
    >sentace
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)07:00 No.2087087
    >>2086660
    >A lot of "smart" and "educated" people could have many, many children and be able to afford it.

    You are absolutely right. They "could" have many children and able to afford it. But, the problem is they choose NOT to.

    People in developed countries are choosing not to have children as they become better educated, and women become less dependent on men. Individuals rather follow their ambitions then have a family and settle. Look at Japan. They are facing a serious population decline as they are not allowing immigration. http://edition.cnn.com/2012/01/30/world/asia/japan-population-decline/index.html

    Meanwhile, in Euro and Western countries, population is rising only steadily. Only because of immigration. At the same time, population in third world countries are booming.

    http://www.unfpa.org/pds/trends.htm
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)07:04 No.2087106
    I feel like there is no middleground for racism...
    Either you are racist and want every other race to be genocided, or you are a diehard liberal who would defend equality to the death.
    Yes, certain races, especially blacks, are inferior to many other races. It's not their fault, they don't deserve to die and there are alternative solutions to the problem besides genocide, castration, etc.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)07:06 No.2087113
         File: 1331636806.png-(434 KB, 571x540, 1304038706576.png)
    434 KB
    >>2087106
    But we only hate the jews and blacks.
    >> animal !eeDbeu1Bp. 03/13/12(Tue)07:08 No.2087119
    and the chinks and the sandniggers
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)07:10 No.2087132
    >>2087087

    You're missing the point.

    >But, the problem is they choose NOT to.

    Birth rates have declined since the beginning of the industrial revolution in every country touched by it. The first people to notice were in the 1850s. At least part of the reason is large increases in childhood survival rates - people have few live births *because* less children die.

    But otherwise, the last century is the first time people could reliably both have sex and not have children. It's simply the first time there's been a choice.

    >People in developed countries are choosing not to have children as they become better educated, and women become less dependent on men.

    Education levels for men correlate poorly to number of children, given equal levels of education in their spouses. Education levels in women correlate strongly to reduced numbers of children. Basically, people responsible for childcare choose to devote more of themselves to fewer children, all else being equal. They probably would have chosen the same thing thousands of years ago, if they were allowed to.

    >At the same time, population in third world countries are booming.

    Birth rates are falling faster in the developing world than anywhere else. They are, in fact, going up among white middle class people in Europe. The thing is that childhood survival is increasing in the developing world faster than the birth rate is falling. For at least another generation, that trend will dominate population growth in Latin America and Asia, but in Africa, AIDS is a larger player in mortality.

    Basically, what is going on is not some new choice, it's having choices for the first time, and choosing what pretty much any sensible person would choose.
    >> thoughtless celestial 03/13/12(Tue)07:11 No.2087134
         File: 1331637062.jpg-(18 KB, 447x215, 580468_700b.jpg)
    18 KB
    >This thread
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)07:14 No.2087150
    >>2087134
    >9fag
    Also, I believe you mean correct their're spelling.
    >> thoughtless celestial 03/13/12(Tue)07:20 No.2087177
    >>2087150
    >I have nothing to say and i'm saying it
    whan i see nice pics, i save them. you?
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)07:24 No.2087193
    >>2087087
    >>2087087

    Indeed. Being smart is an evolutionary disadvantage,
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)07:27 No.2087212
    >Arguments for theism?
    Many, some of which are particularly strong
    >Arguments for atheism?
    None

    All you need to know
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)07:30 No.2087220
    >>2086257
    As long as we keep sending them aid.
    >> thoughtless celestial 03/13/12(Tue)07:33 No.2087232
    >>2087212
    >argumments for theism: many
    such as?
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)07:34 No.2087237
    >>2087232
    for example:

    1) Whatever begins to exist has a cause
    2) The universe began to exist
    3) Thus the universe has a cause
    >> thoughtless celestial 03/13/12(Tue)07:36 No.2087246
    >>2087237
    how is that an argument for theism?
    >god is the cause for the universe!
    and what created god?
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)07:38 No.2087259
    >>2087237
    >the universe ja to be created by someone! It's just too complex not to have been!

    >lol stupid atheists god is too complex to have been created
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)07:39 No.2087261
    >>2087246
    God falls trivially from the presence of a cause:
    As it created matter, it must be immaterial. To avoid infinite regress, it must be timeless. As it's immaterial, it can only be an abstract concept like "the number 8" or a disembodied mind. But "the number 8" doesn't cause anything. Therefore, what we have is an immensely powerful, immaterial, timeless, disembodied mind.

    I think it's fair to call this God.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)07:40 No.2087273
    >>2087259
    see:
    >>2087261

    God was not created as I suppose he is timeless. Actually, you HAVE to conclude he's timeless to avoid an infinite regress. The same cannot be done for the universe, from premise 2.

    >Arguments for theism?
    Many, some of which are particularly strong
    >Arguments for atheism?
    None

    All you need to know
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)07:42 No.2087287
    >>2087261
    I actually feel bad for you
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)07:43 No.2087294
    ITT: idiots attempting to use logic to prove the existence of a god.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)07:43 No.2087295
         File: 1331639003.jpg-(68 KB, 680x682, 1328267477929.jpg)
    68 KB
    >>2087287
    No need to. I've developed a relationship with God, and constantly win debates with atheists.

    >Arguments for theism?
    Many, some of which are particularly strong
    >Arguments for atheism?
    None

    All you need to know
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)07:44 No.2087304
    I like Dawkins. He defends eugenics, the validity of human racial taxonomy and the relationship between brain size and intelligence, hates on both the Muslims and Israel and is a disciple of the anti-semitic racialist eugenicist W. D. Hamilton. What confuses me is why stererotypical limp-wristed cultural marxists like him.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)07:45 No.2087307
    I'm a Christian and I don't believe we're created equal. Niggers are descendants of daemons and are beyond salvation. Even those who are allegedly converted revert to their old heretical ways of worshiping idols and cannibalizing their dead.
    >> thoughtless celestial 03/13/12(Tue)07:45 No.2087308
    >>2087261
    >implying abstract ideas existed before people thought them up.
    what eist only in thought need someone to think about it.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)07:46 No.2087314
    If you don't believe in God, then you aren't human.
    If you don't believe in God, then you are a fag.

    Mmmmkaa, Lovely logical fallacies.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)07:46 No.2087316
    >>2087308
    >Cannot defend his bizarre atheist beliefs
    >Latches onto trivialities

    cute
    >> thoughtless celestial 03/13/12(Tue)07:47 No.2087319
    >>2087273
    i don't understand:
    why can god have no cause but the universe can't?
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)07:47 No.2087322
    >>2087294
    There is no logic on /pol.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)07:48 No.2087330
    >>2087319
    Because God did not begin to exist, while the universe did.

    Entry level philosophy this, you must only be used to Richard Dawkins though.
    >> thoughtless celestial 03/13/12(Tue)07:48 No.2087332
    >>2087316
    ironic to hear such claims coming from the opposite side.
    do you have an actual counter argument, or do you admit defeat?
    >> Maige !hotYLoveww 03/13/12(Tue)07:49 No.2087334
    So how's scientific racism going these days?
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)07:49 No.2087336
    >>2087295
    Tell me what you mean by many reasons for theism
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)07:49 No.2087339
    >>2087330

    >Because God did not begin to exist...

    Go and do some hard thinking.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)07:51 No.2087353
    >>2087332
    An actual counterargument to your idea that the number 8 did not exist prior to human thoughts?

    I could. Plantinga has written some stuff on this, but I just cannot be bothered. It's a very obvious red herring, and doesn't effect anything.

    >Arguments for theism?
    Many, some of which are particularly strong
    >Arguments for atheism?
    None

    All you need to know
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)07:51 No.2087359
         File: 1331639515.png-(45 KB, 600x763, ydkOI.png)
    45 KB
    one thing that always strikes me about atheists is how insecure they are

    even online you can tell they're just screaming for validation

    theirs is the ultimate counter-culture because it runs against every culture that has ever existed. i cannot even begin to imagine how lonely it must feel, to be the lone voice of "reason" when all of humanity just keeps disagreeing with you
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)07:51 No.2087361
    >>2087339
    >no counter
    as expected
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)07:52 No.2087367
         File: 1331639579.png-(5 KB, 202x219, 1327261459929.png)
    5 KB
    >>2087336
    For example, one argument for God that's been defended successfully in this thread is as follows:

    1) Whatever begins to exist has a cause
    2) The universe began to exist
    3) Thus the universe has a cause

    On the other hand, we've seen not one argument for atheism. Therefore, it's clear that the rational position here, as ever, is theism.
    >> thoughtless celestial 03/13/12(Tue)07:53 No.2087368
    >>2087330
    >god did not began to exist
    Agreed, god never existed.
    >no, god existance had no begining, it existed before time
    and the universe?
    >the universe had a begining
    and time? did time ever begin to exist?

    2 possible answers
    >no
    but the universe did?
    >yes
    but god didn't?
    >> thoughtless celestial 03/13/12(Tue)07:56 No.2087387
    >>2087353
    >a counter argument exist, but i won't bring it
    i have a proof that god is evil, but i won't bring it.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)07:58 No.2087401
    >>2087368

    You're falling for the troll.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)07:59 No.2087402
    >>2087368
    Your floundering about here, trying to grasp at anything that would constitute a counter.

    As far I can see, you are suggesting that the universe might have been infinite in the past. It patently cannot be timeless, so I'll deal with that specific objection. There are both philosophical and scientific disproofs of an infinite universe.

    The philosophical disproof comes from the fact that infinity cannot be a number in the real world. Taking infinite seeds from infinite seeds can give us 1, 7, 19, or any number we want. This is a logical contradiction and absurdity that only comes about when you consider infinity to be a number in the real world. Such contradictions also emerge if we consider the universe to be infinite in the past, and thus it cannot be.

    That was sufficient to convince most philosophers for centuries, but then 8 years ago we got the scientific disproof by way of the Borde Guth and Vilenkin theorem. With that, atheism died as a reasonable position.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)07:59 No.2087403
    >>2087367
    What cause does the universe have
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)08:00 No.2087407
         File: 1331640025.jpg-(32 KB, 431x496, 1322428308152.jpg)
    32 KB
    >>2087387
    We're discussing the existence of God, not whether or not abstract concepts exist without humans to acknowledge them. I'm not going to fall for your silly little red herring, so please engage with the actual debate.

    >Arguments for theism?
    Many, some of which are particularly strong
    >Arguments for atheism?
    None

    All you need to know
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)08:02 No.2087413
    >>2087361

    Why does the universe need a cause but a god doesn't?
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)08:02 No.2087416
    >>2087403
    God
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)08:03 No.2087422
    >>2087413
    The universe needs a cause as it began to exist. If I suppose God is timeless, then he would not need a cause. Indeed, to avoid an infinite regress we are FORCED to conclude that God is timeless. So far from challenging theism, this actually reaffirms it.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)08:03 No.2087427
    >>2087416
    Lol explain please
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)08:04 No.2087435
    >>2087427
    See:
    >>2087261
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)08:06 No.2087445
    >>2087367
    >>2087367

    >The universe began to exist...

    You have misunderstood the atheist position. The "time" before the universe existed is unexplainable, it is incomprehensible. It's like asking what is north of the north pole. It is meaningless.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)08:07 No.2087454
    >>2087445
    Irrelevant. See:
    >>2087402
    if you're objecting to the undeniable fact that the universe began to exist.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)08:09 No.2087463
    >>2087422
    >>2087422

    >The universe needs a cause as it began to exist...

    You misunderstand the scientific position. There is no way to measure, using scientific means, the nature of existence before a certain point.
    >> thoughtless celestial 03/13/12(Tue)08:10 No.2087468
    >>2087401
    I'm bored.

    >>2087402
    you missed my point:
    you claimed god had no start. but same can be said about time, for the same reason. once you find the begining of time, you find the begining of god.
    so it means, if time had a begining, so did god, so if he didn't began to exist he never did.

    if time didn't have a begining, it means it existed without a creator.... without being started. same goes for the universe.
    understand, or are you too thick for that?

    >>2087407
    actual debate:
    bring argument rather than say you have one. that's what a debate is about, isn't it?
    answer to
    >>2087308
    already.

    >>2087422
    did time begin or didn't begin to exist?
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)08:10 No.2087470
    >>2087463
    see:
    >>2087402

    This weak objection has been dealt with. I also note that no argument at all has been given for atheism.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)08:12 No.2087478
    >>2087468
    >once you find the beginning of time, you find the beginning of God
    Ok so you don't know what the word "timeless" means. Sheesh your ignorant of even basic philosophy. No wonder you're an atheist.

    >Arguments for theism?
    Many, some of which are particularly strong
    >Arguments for atheism?
    None

    All you need to know
    >> thoughtless celestial 03/13/12(Tue)08:17 No.2087500
    >>2087478
    >you don't know what the word "timeless" means.
    indulge me, oh wise one.

    debates won by atheists: >9k
    debates won by theists:0
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)08:18 No.2087504
    >>2087470

    It's not a weak objection. It's a sound position, it is the position adopted by scientists; and, you do not deal with it adequately, if at all.

    At some point in the future it is possible we will develop the models, and the tools, do understand the processes that led to the existence of space time.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)08:20 No.2087514
    >>2087500
    Timeless means unaffected by time. You would have learnt this in your first ever philosophy class. But then of course you would also have learnt that atheism is utterly irrational.

    I like how you think you've ever won a debate. No argument is ever given for atheism, so they defacto cannot have won any of the debates. On the other hand, many arguments are made for theism, one which has been successfully defended in this thread.

    >Arguments for theism?
    Many, some of which are particularly strong
    >Arguments for atheism?
    None

    All you need to know
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)08:22 No.2087523
    >>2087402

    "Time" is a meaningless concept before a certain point in the universe's evolution. To describe it as "timeless" is equally meaningless.
    >> thoughtless celestial 03/13/12(Tue)08:23 No.2087530
    >>2087514
    >Timeless means unaffected by time.
    >god is unaffected by time
    >god is static
    >god didn't do anything
    >god didn't create anything
    QED.

    I like how you claim existance of many strong arguments for theism while you fail to produce even one.


    debates won by atheists: >9k
    debates won by theists:0

    the results speak for themselves.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)08:25 No.2087537
    >>2087530
    >God is unaffected by time
    >God is static
    Really low-IQ attempts here by the atheist. A deaf person may be unaffected by sound but still able to scream. I await your next attempt at logic.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)08:26 No.2087540
    >>2087514

    >Timeless means unaffected by time. You would have learnt this in your first ever philosophy class.

    Time is a meaningless concept before the "big bang" (for want of a better term). That does not mean there was "nothing", in the sense we understand it, "before" that point. It is simply incomprehensible, and cannot be measured, nor, understood.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)08:27 No.2087546
    >>2087540
    >relevance = 0
    well done for trying though. I know it's hard for atheists to engage in intelligent conversations.
    >> thoughtless celestial 03/13/12(Tue)08:29 No.2087560
    >>2087537
    a deaf person can scream because a scream is not created by sound, it's created by the lungs.
    something that is not affected by time does not change without any outer force- by itself it can do nothing.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)08:31 No.2087569
    >>2087560
    It is not effected by time. Suddenly you conclude this means it cannot effect time or work within time.

    Really poor attempts here. Even for an atheist, you're astonishingly bad at debate. Still, we've seen not one argument for atheism, and the argument for theism (among many others) has stood successfully.

    It is clear, once again, that theism is the rational position.

    >Arguments for theism?
    Many, some of which are particularly strong
    >Arguments for atheism?
    None

    All you need to know
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)08:31 No.2087571
    >>2087546

    I see you don't have a counter.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)08:32 No.2087578
    >>2087571
    HAHA. You're right. You're free to talk about cheeseburgers if you want and I will be utterly unable to counter you.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)08:34 No.2087589
    >>2087569

    Still waiting for a responds regarding your misunderstanding about the "beginning" of space time.
    >> Anonymous 03/13/12(Tue)08:35 No.2087599
    >>2087589
    keep waiting. I'm only here to debate the existence of God, no matter how much you want me to school you on other issues.
    >> thoughtless celestial 03/13/12(Tue)08:37 No.2087610
    >>2087569
    it really can't work within time. if it can't be affected by time, it can't be touched by time so it can't touch time.
    a deaf person can be affected by sound because sound does not just magiclly apears in the ears- sound is not abstract. time however, IS.


    Really poor attempts here. Even for a theist, you're astonishingly bad at debate. Still, we've seen one argument for theism, a bit a false one. can you come up with an actual argument this time or will you continue holding on to straws?

    It is clear, once again, that atheism is the rational position.


    debates won by atheists: >9k
    debates won by theists:0

    the results speak for themselves.


    [Return] [Top]
    Delete Post [File Only]
    Password
    Style [Yotsuba | Yotsuba B | Futaba | Burichan]