meh, they don't have to balls to go through

Step up, step back.

It'll be funny when they try to block the seaport. If the cops don't lob tear gas at them and crush their fucking skulls, some trucker who won't get paid until he puts his load on that boat is gonna run over a bunch of those sniveling fucks.

>The activists vowed to protest any businesses that keep their doors open during the strike.

Awesome, hurt legit businesses, that will get them a lot of support.

>that feel when in 6 months to a year this shit will get so out of control Obama will finally create that version of the SS that nutcases harped on about
>mfw I finally get put on a delicious black outfit with black boots and stomp commie ingrates into the pavement

I fully support the OWS movement.

i love how they broke the windows of wells fargo yelling "banks got bailed out we got sold out", even though wells fargo was not bailed out.

Awesome. I have the cops unload on them with rubber bullets.

>>178603
ILWU workers are militant as shit. Anything that goes down at the seaport will happen with their full support. That's likely not going to happen.
And they're big guys. They attach their picket signs to baseball bats (it's a clever idea).

i heard they broke into a whole foods and smeared shit all over the produce. gives a new meaning to organic food..

>>178620
sounds like a plan

>>178649

Where were they when some hippie protesters tried to block the Port of Tacoma years ago over concerns that war materiel were being shipped out of there? Those big burly longshoremen with their baseball bat signs didn't protect them from the duly-appointed wrath of the Tacoma Police Department, that's for sure.

The Jewish Community should be Wary of the Anti-Semitic "Occupy Wall St." mob

http://wolfblog.dailymail.co.uk/2011/10/the-jewish-community-should-be-wary-of-the-anti-semitic-occu
py-wall-st-mob.html

Occupy Wall Street: Does anyone care about the anti-Semitism?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/post/occupy-wall-street-does-anyone-care-about-the-an
ti-semitism/2011/03/29/gIQA43p8rL_blog.html

More Anti-Semitism at Occupy Los Angeles

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2011/10/13/more-anti-semitism-at-occupy-los-angeles/

GOP: Dems ignore 'Occupy' anti-Semitism

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2011/10/19/GOP-Dems-ignore-Occupy-anti-Semitism/UPI-56611319013000/

Group tries to link Occupy Wall Street to anti-Semitism

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/18/us-occupywallstreet-idUSTRE79H8DE20111018

RNC blast Dems for lack of "outrage" at alleged anti-Semitism at Wall Street

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20122699-503544.html

The Jewish Community should be Wary of the Anti-Semitic "Occupy Wall St." mob

http://wolfblog.dailymail.co.uk/2011/10/the-jewish-community-should-be-wary-of-the-anti-semitic-occu
py-wall-st-mob.html

Live stream

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/east_bay&id=8415827

>>178690
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnvRiFYNaOQ

>>178690

Those were hippie protesters not strikers... unions would have no particular reason to support pacifists but every reason to support strikers. Just throwin that out there.

Isn't it iconic?

One worker looking out toward what is ahead, and another, standing atop reclaimed capital, raising a defiant fist.

Coming soon to a city near you.

>>178690
The ILWU, despite having the most respectable rank and file around, are still an AFL-CIO union.
It was, at the time, politically inconvenient for the higher ups to approve any sort of action. It is, however, not the same currently.

>>178714
Not so. The ILWU has at one point declared a strike purely to protest against the war.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/03/us-usa-protests-oakland-port-idUSTRE7A209820111103

>Maritime operations at the Port of Oakland were "effectively shut down" on Wednesday by protesters, port officials said.

10K + Oaklanders shut down the port. Truckers join them. ILWU members spontaneously join them. This is the disenfranchised working class giving all you house slaves and class Uncle Toms, and especially your corporate and financier overlords the finger.

Also, where's Pinkerton Security when you need them? Oh, right, absorbed into a Swedish multinational and they're now neutered mall cops instead of the early 20th Century Blackwater they once was. Those guys knew how to crack lazy syndicalist skull!

I planned to skip class tomorrow but now I'll have to go so I don't look like one of those stupid fucks

Bunch of lazy good for nothings who can't accomplish anything I wish they'd just go home and shut up because everything is fine! It's fine! It's fine! EVERYTHING IS OK! AGGGGGGHHHHHHHHh

Also this picture is awesome, isn't it?

how come i keep seeing hate on ows saying that its a bunch of dumb hippies? everyone in this country has been getting raped by lack of proper regulation and oversight by the govt on businesses.

>>178841

Because the do shit like this.

>>178841
because they broke into a grocery store and smeared poop on the food. wtf?

Have you seen their flags and signs?

It's all left-wing fuckfest with socialists, communists, homos, anarchists, and other hippie shit. These people really need to grow the fuck up.

>>178841
Nope. Small/regular businesses are getting crowded out by gov't regulation and oversight, which allows the corporations to flourish as they force everyone else out of business, because only they can afford to hold out for the profits.
>WELL WHAT ABOUT THE BANKS?!

well, what is happening right now? Are all the small/locally owned banks NOT getting run into the ground because of these absurd regulations passed to "regulate" these massive crony-capitalist banks that are robbing us blind, with our federal "government" at the reigns?
Government's only original purpose is to insure competition in the marketplace, so the best possible goods are created at the best possible price with the greatest amount of profit being forced onto the consumer. That's what capitalism does. Crony-capitalism doesn't. Crony capitalism creates corporatism. Just like FDR did with the "New Deal", just like Bush and Obama have done over the past 8 years.

>>178841
All the people in the world have been fucked over by the jewry in the banks. This most people know. But the majority of these OWS people don't want a simple reform that stops the banks from screwing us, they want the entire socialist package with it; free education, government-run healthcare, more welfare, etc.

This is why you only see a few thousand people on the street; the middle class is generally fine with the way it goes, although there is a lot of anger towards the banks - but this has always been here. Only poor people and hippies who want to "fight the man" join these protests, as you can clearly see by the people out on the street.

>>178991
Thats a lie straight from hell.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/09/01/122865/regulations-taxes-arent-killing.html

>>179070
For those who wont click the link.

>Then there's Rip Daniels. He owns four businesses in Gulfport, Miss.: real estate ventures, a radio station and a boutique hotel/bistro. He said his problem wasn't regulation.

>"Absolutely, positively not. What is choking my business is insurance. What's choking all business is insurance. You cannot go into business, any business — small business or large business — unless you can afford insurance," he told Biloxi's Sun Herald.


Guess what was failed to be reformed in 2010? Insurance. Thankyou republican jackasses.

>>179070
Nice editorial.
I'll stick with my data-backed working paper written by economists.

Dixon, Lloyd, Susan M. Gates, and Kainka Kapur. The Impact or Regulation and Litigation on Small Business
and Entrepreneurship. Working paper no. WR-317-ICJ. Kauffman-RAND Center for the Study of Small Business and Regulation, Feb. 2006. Web. 10 Oct. 2011. <Rand.org>.

>>179120
Why do we need business insurance? Oh yeah.. because we have one of the most litigious societies on the face of the Earth, and lawyerjews love to suck the blood out of American business at every opportunity. Same (yet less significant) effect on the medical industry.

>>179217
Now how about you source and tie everything together instead of telling us to read a large 369 page pdf that sources multiple other citings with multiple abbreviations and sources without having to spend about 90 hours to make sure your not being bullshitted by republican sponsored shit made by the global war machine?

>>179217
>>179070
>>179120
>implying anyone on /pol/ has the attention span to read any of this bullshit.

>>179238
ANTI SEMITE DETECTED!!!

Why is it they have the balls to get more shit done than teabaggers could in years?

>>179217
> I cant defend against a well written article refuting my main point, so I better make sure I just bury people under too much information instead of giving a cited page of the source.

>>179217

Chuckle.

Germany has some of the tightest regulation and highest taxes in the world, it's also doing better than the US economically and has a better standard of living; with free universal health care and education, generous social security, cheap public transport, etc...

The low tax, low regulation, Anglo-Saxon economic model has failed. the Northern European and Nordic Social Democratic models have proved successful.

Just sayin'.

>>179356
Except society in all of those countries has turned to shit. The only reason they're doing well economically is the protestant work ethic.

>>179356
Not the one who posted this, but Germany is also on their way to a better energy source after the whole Japan going nuclear meltdown thing. Something the US refuses to even acknowledge still being a problem.

>>179370

Society hasn't turned to shit. It's rather nice here (currently sitting in Helsinki).

>>179370
That does not have to do with the economy. Society is shit for tolerating idiots.

>>179384
>Society is shit for tolerating idiots.
Welp there we go.

Typical leftist authoritarianism, and exactly the problem in northern europe. Don't agree with the cultural elite? Enjoy prison!

>>179356
Social Democracies are almost as bankrupt as the Anglo countries now

It's kind of like arguing who's more bankrupt? The USD or the Euro? Either way they're going down the tubes and something is wrong on a much more fundamnetal level

I don't know about the rights to strike in the USA but isn't this an unlawful strike? And isn't a general strike rather hard to pull even in one city considering americans hate unions and have low union membership rate?

>>179217

Taxes and regulation are rather good for an economy. America in the 1950s had a top tax rate of 94%. The Republican Government ploughed this money back into the economy with the development of infrastructure, roads, dams, etc... This period, the 1950s, is regarded as America's "golden age" by conservatives.

Ok.

>>179413
Never mind all the people who are making off with trillions of corporate bailouts nope, never mind the people who caused all this mess and are still not behind bars, even though there are at least 1000+ OWS'ers behind bars.

Nope, were gonna argue about regulation killing businesses, despite the fact a lack of regulation, is what started this global economic crisis in the first place.

>>179413
The USD obviously.

The eurozone itself isn't really in serious trouble, and can be fixed quite easily. The problem however is getting an actual agreement between all states. Everyone is chasing after their national interests, and this breaks the eurozone more than the debt and the deficits.

>>179393
You want to say you want to kill everyone not following your way of thinking? Go right the fuck ahead. When you start pulling that bullshit out on the streets and hurting people through your stupidity, you can go suck a big fat dick.

>>179444
You just went full retard.

>>179413

Germany isn't bankrupt! Its export led, Social Democratic model, has worked very well.

Those countries that followed the Anglo model, Iceland, Ireland, USA, Britain are fucked.

Just sayin'.

Shit just got real on livestream. Teargas and rubber bullets are flying as of 2:55 and ongoing

>get clubbed in the head for obstructing traffic
>THE POLICE ARE COMMITTING WARCRIMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
lolhippies

The police is probably having a rougher time in this economic crisis than the welfare queens.

>>179439
>>179439

>despite the fact a lack of regulation, is what started this global economic crisis in the first place...

THIS!

Lack of regulation of the shadow banking system is what started this global financial crisis. Those calling for even less regulation are ideologues or idiots.

>>179477
OP your missing your tag in a losing argument, not looking good.

>The activists vowed to protest any businesses that keep their doors open during the strike.

And people wonder why others hate unions and OWS. Yea go and damage that small business, he makes less that you do with more risk but what a scum bag.

>>178538
People protesting and striking to bring about positive change in the government and economic system! Oh awesome, lets go to... wait...

>I hope Obama calls the national guard on them.
>Awesome. I have the cops unload on them with rubber bullets.
>It's all left-wing fuckfest with socialists, communists, homos, anarchists, and other hippie shit. These people really need to grow the fuck up.
>Bunch of lazy good for nothings who can't accomplish anything I wish they'd just go home and shut up because everything is fine!

Oh, modern America. Your complacency is pathetic.

>>179537
>because there are millions of mom & pop diner shops whining to fox news that they cant serve beef & potato cheddar soup, oh wait, they might be closed because they might also part of the OWS movement, imagine that. Who isnt closed for OWS? Large businesses and corporations? Gee imagine that.

>>179537

Why is there such a fixation with the "small business"?

>>178745
Die.

THE DAY THE POLICE REPRESSION STARTED WAS THE DAY THE OCCUPY MOVEMENT OFFICIALLY ENDORSED A 1% WALL STREET SALES TAX.

>>178841
I would support the gatherings if a) they had 1 or 2 coherent messages such as bank bailouts. b) didn't act like fucking idiots or let the legitimate people get drowned out by fucking idiots and c) being trying to push socialism but this could be more to do with point b.

>>179541
Probably just one guy trolling, gotta say this threads full of it.
>>179558
Its a common republicon talking point believe it or not, used to give people a sense that the people they are voting into office care about them.
Hell Obama proposed helping small businesses in a state of the union address and when he got no responses from republicans he said something to the effect of "Gee, and here I thought you guys would be all happy about that." This was in the 2010 state of the union adress I think, not 100% sure, so dont quote me on it. (Could be the 2011 one)

>>179558
>>Why is there such a fixation with the "small business"?
Because Faux News and the GOP have brainwashed idiots into thinking the country can survive economically on small service-based jobs paying literally nothing.
And since it's just about all that's left after the corporations went international and moved the bulk of the decent jobs overseas for delicious profits.

Now they can mask policies favoring those large corporations by claiming that they are needed to keep small businesses healthy.
The "conservative" morons here lap that shit up.

guy on livestream said anarchists tagged up wellsfargo, and OWS people cleaned it up.

>>179593

I guess you don't know what "Socialism" is.

Intervention in the economy does not equal "Socialism". Socialism is the "commitment to the common ownership of the means of production". You will be hard pressed to find a single protester that wants this.

The more you know, the less of a cunt you are...

>>179356
>free universal health care

You don't know how German health care works. They have mandatory insurance.

>>179378
They won't have power every time there is no wind.

>>179627

If you're unemployed in Germany, you will get free health care.

>>179593
>a) they had 1 or 2 coherent messages such as bank bailouts.

So unless it's easy to understand and caters to the lowest common denominator (yourself).

>b) didn't act like fucking idiots or let the legitimate people get drowned out by fucking idiots

There are hundreds of thousands of people who take part in these movements. Some of them are vocal idiots, like yourself. Most aren't.

>c) being trying to push socialism but this could be more to do with point b.

"being trying?" Take an English class. The only people trying to push socialism are the minority of socialists within the movement. But you'd know that had you actually seen OWS with your own eyes untainted by the biased media and their non-for-profit viral outlets.

>>179554
>implying you can just shut down your business to go out on strike

Do you know how the world works?

>>179627

>They won't have power every time there is no wind.

Idiot or troll?

>>178538
When the Tea Baggers were calling for small businesses to "go on strike" and shut down over the protests in some kind of Ayn Randian wet dream, where was the outrage?

The protesters go on a general strike and suddenly they are disrupting the economy, all hell breaking loose, cats and dogs living together, etc.

How do you explain this inconsitency?

>>179611
He's your typical young faggot around here that thinks he's going to be able to jump onto that "easy money" party from the 80's and 90's.

They haven't realized yet that that ship has left port, the money has all been socked away overseas, and now they are just trying to sop up the last puddles of money people still have stashed away.

The Reaganomics generation has run the country dry, and these 20-somethings still trying to push the Trickle-down are just pathetic. The Ron Paul generation of Libertarians are just trying to shield their reserves of wealth, they have no interest in you making any.

you know i feel kinda bad for the cops having to stand there and listen to this shit.

>>179605
>all small business is service based

hurr

>>179646

Probably both, i image she half believes this shit she posts.

>>179646
Ah so it's ok to have nuclear power when you buy it from another country.

The cry "think of the small businesses", is the equivalent of the cry "think of the children".

It's pathetic.

>>179674

It's ok to use wave power if it's generated by the sea?

>>179681
Yea it's only people livelihoods.

>>179689

It's the worker livelihoods too, we can't bend over for the small business owner while the rest of us get fucked.

>>179689

If big business fucks the workers they have no money to spend in the small businesses. Small businesses get fucked over in the long run too.

>>179696
So you shut down the business, everyone loses their job there. Now what?

>>179709

This is a thread about a general strike. Shutting down businesses is the whole point. It forces Government to stop spending TRILLIONS on the rich, with our workers tax dollars.

>>179709
Name the businesses that have shut down. I'll wait.

>>179702
hahaha you fucking liberals, do you understand that your commie rhetoric has no basis in reality?

>>179709

We can't afford the rich. The are too expensive. They have bankrupted us.

>>179729
HEY YOU FUCKING RETARD: THE GOVERNMENT SPENDS TRILLIONS ON SOCIALISM, WHICH GOES TO THE POOR.

DO YOU EVEN FUCKING THINK?

>>179729
>It forces Government to stop spending TRILLIONS on the rich, with our workers tax dollars.

Only if it's sustained and country wide.

>>179744
Why do you think everyone who runs a business is stinking rich?

>>179743
Do you understand the basic concepts of economics? No consumers = no profits = failed small business.

You people really are idiots.

>>179749

No.

The Government spends comparatively little on the poor. It has just given over 15 Trillion USD to the rich.

That is your tax dollars, given to the rich. How does this fact make you feel?

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/occupy-oakland-live

>>179768
>15 Trillion USD to the rich.

Source.

>>179761
small businesses fail because of your "necessary regulation" you fucking tard.

>>179768
>Hurr i don't know anything because i am a liberal
federal reserve is not government, further YOU LIKE ALL THIS MASSIVE GOVERNMENT SHIT.
ALL YOU ARE SAYING IS "WAH WAH I DONT LIKE THE RICH WHY DOESNT THE GOVERNMENT GIVE ME MONEY!"

YOU ARE LIKE THE NIGGER IN AFRICA THINKING THE WHITE MAN IS HOGGING ALL THE MONEY!

>>179749
Socialist programs =/= (gasp)"SOCIALISM"

You're a fucking idiot. Also, the "trillions" accrue over numerous years. ALSO, it's for our infrastructure (put there mainly by the New Deal), to support people who can't support themselves, as opposed to bailing out banks/corporations, which is, in fact, socialism.

Pick your battles buddy.

>>179773

Get the fuck in here. Cops are about to shoot tear gas again.

>>179655
If the cops don't like it they can quit, there are plenty of other jobs the cops can do. Like detail cars, scrub toilets, serve coffee and do landscaping in the spring.

>>179774
Seriously? Are you THAT uninformed?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/traceygreenstein/2011/09/20/the-feds-16-trillion-bailouts-under-reported
/

>>179824

And apparently the city has spent millions in overtime

>>179773
>>179773
>>179773

Cops are suiting up. Reinforcements have arrived.

Here it comes.

>>179749

The Social security budget has been dwarfed by the amount the taxpayer has just given to the rich.

The rich are too expensive, we can't afford them.

>>179852

Wait...what? Isn't a vast majority of the national budget dedicated to entitlements? I don't think too many rich people are on medicare

Police are firing on the protesters.

>>179862
A vast majority is actually spent on military and national security. Also, bailouts to corporations as of recently.

Don't be so easily deluded.

>>179890
I NEVER ASKED FOR THIS

>>179862

The rich broke our economy, then we bail them out and keep them rich with our taxpayers dollars.

Feel good to you?

>>179895

right

>>179905

It's ALOT more complicated than that.

>>179900

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/occupy-oakland-live

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/occupy-oakland-live

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/occupy-oakland-live

Take it and love it!

>>179862
>>179895

>Likes to keep rich people rich with taxpayers money

>>179906
Hmm.

>>179930
>ad hominem

>>179927

Who is giving OPD the clearance to do this shit?

>>179917

The credit crisis wasn't caused by bad mortgages, you idiot.

The subprime market was around 80 billion, enough to bring down a bank or two if all the loans went bad at the same time. They didn't.

The banking crisis was caused by the unregulated shadow banking system. It was unregulated gambling in the markets and trading of exotic financial packages that poisoned the system.

It wasn't the average joe and his mortgage. Stop watching Fox News.

>>179953

That wasn't a personal attack. Not an ad hominem.

>>180001
You lumped us in with the mega rich and used it as a derogatory remark.

>>179994
>It wasn't the average joe and his mortgage. Stop watching Fox News.

Well it was but yea, they still fucked around, bet on them and sold them all to each other.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/occupy-oakland-live

this here be a live stream from oakland.

>>179950

Apparently random sites are reputable sources now.

>>179994

Holy fuck. Bear Sterns brothers was packed to the gills with toxic mortgages, THATS what set off the panic. the fed bailed out lehmon, then fannie mae and freddie mac, both worth 5 trillion(and filled with toxic mortgages) started going belly up. The fed nationalized fannie mae and freddie mac. A week later, lehman brothers started showing signs of failure(because they too gambled on toxic mortgages). The fed let lehman brothers fail, then AIG went down because they insured the shitty loans that lehman brothers had on their books.

Derivatives where the vehicle in which the loans made their journey onto wall street, but the firms themselves knew what they had in their books. Washington and the fed got wall street drunk on shitty loans, and wall-street gambled hard. Don't fucking tell me that the toxic mortgages didn't do shit. Once Bear Sterns competitors saw their books, EVERYONE panicked. Wall-street craves for the situation they had, it was easy money. But the government helped them 100%. Things aren't as simple as you want them to be.

>>179953

That wasn't an ad hominem, it was a Strawman. You stupid uneducated cunt (that was an ad hominem),

Yes goyim, please support our ZOG Shocktroopers in the next weeks when we put down this degenerate "hippie" rebellion against the chosen 1% people. Don't worry, everything is fine, though these regulations are a second holocaust on our ability to take more of your shekels for Israel. Remove them at once goyim.

>>180061
Stay mad.

>>180049
Don't forget, the bad mortgages were forced into existence by well-meaning liberals who said owning a home is "the American dream." Yeah, OWNING. Not paying for thirty years on a fry cook's wages, not getting upside-down and going back to an apartment.

Cheap debt is what caused the Great Depression too. Now governments are getting cheap debt; what will that do, I wonder?

>>180049

>Bear Sterns brothers was packed to the gills with toxic mortgages, THATS what set off the panic.

Idiot.

Do you know the difference between a catalyst and a cause?

The financial system was a powder keg ready to blow, anything could have triggered it. It just happened to be a run of loan defaults which some banks were over exposed to (Fanny/Mac, etc...).

The bad loans were not enough to cause the near collapse of the entire global financial system. Unregulated banking, the creation and trading of debts, and gambling in the markets that caused the problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_banking_system

Blaming the average joe, and the poor, for the credit crisis, is, frankly, disgusting.

>>180049

>the fed bailed out lehmon

Lehman Brothers was not bailed out.

>>180115
>believing that a free market leads to collapses

>>180049

>Don't fucking tell me that the toxic mortgages didn't do shit.

Bad mortgages didn't lead to the near collapse of the financial system. It was unregulated banks gambling in the markets and trading exotic financial packages, that caused the problem.

>>180141

Where is this "free market" you speak of?

I don't know of one single successful democratic nation with a small Government.

>At the General Assembly, activists debated whether to move quickly, capitalizing on the attention the previous day's police actions had brought to their cause, or give themselves more time to organize. "I support a general strike right now to take advantage of this momentum,” said one speaker excitedly at the “people's mic” that evening. “We should strike while the iron's hot!"
>strike while the iron's hot
>strike while the iron is hot

NO SAVIOUR FROM ON HIGH DELIVERS
NO FAITH HAVE WE IN PRINCE OR PEER
OUR OWN RIGHT HAND THE CHAINS MUST SHIVER
CHAINS OF HATRED GREED AND FEAR

AND ERE THE THIEVES WILL OUT THEIR BOOTY
AND GIVE TO ALL A HAPPIER LOT
EACH AT THE FORGE MUST DO THEIR DUTY
AND STRIKE WHILE THE IRON IS HOT!

SO COMRADES COME RALLY
AND THE LAST FIGHT LET US FACE
THE INTERNATIONALE
UNITES THE HUMAN RACE

SO COMRADES COME RALLY
AND THE LAST FIGHT LET, US, FAAAACE
THE INT–ER–NASH–ER–NA–A–LE
UNITES; THE HU–MAN RACE

>>180141

Unregulated finance caused the 2007/2008 credit crunch. This is not controversial. It's a well documented fact:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_banking_system

>>180153
>fallacies are valid arguments

>>180182
fuck off you retarded commies.

>>180184
>government creates crazy financial practices
>government creates moral hazard
>blame the lack of "regulation"

>>180101

er... the drive for a stake holder society was begun by good 'ole Ronnie Reagan. It was a neo-con dream for workers to own their own property, that way, if the shit ever hit the fan the workers would have more to lose than their chains.

The drive for home ownership wasn't based on good intentions.

>>180125

HAHAHA OF COURSE, IT WAS A POWDER KEG. It was built on shitty loans coming out of banks, spurred on by government programs. You really think derivatives alone created the crash? As i said before, derivatives where the means to deliver the toxic loans to different investments banks. is a derivative with good loans a bad thing for the market? Could wall street cause a massive global crash with derivatives based on prime loans? I'm asking a serious question here. Markets rise and fall all the time, but not in the magnitude the 2008 crash did. it was ONLY because the entire market was packed with toxic assets.

And im NOT blaming the poor, i'm placing the blame on the government, the fed, and wall-street. It's nice to see you're trying to shift my argument around for your purposes.

My point is, the government should stay the fuck out of the housing market, and the fed shouldn't keep interest rates low. Thats all

>>180196

>moral hazard.

the "Moral hazard" is a lie told to you by Fox News.

It is the bankers job to know that interest rates are at a historic low. It is their fucking job to know this when drafting loan agreements. They were ignoring economic facts because they were too busy profit chasing for shareholders.

The banks were not guaranteed by Government, either. That's why Lehman Brothers collapsed, Government did not have a policy to rescue failing banks. It was only when the entire banking system looked like it was going to tank did the Government start the bail out.

>>180251

The CEO of Lehman Brothers "knew" he was going to get bailed out. Why did he think that?

>>180251
>interest rates are at a historic low

I wonder why. Maybe centralizing credit in the hands of the state isn't such a good idea after all.

>>180216

>It was built on shitty loans coming out of banks, spurred on by government programs...

The subprime market was chicken feed, about 80 billion dollars. This is enough to bring down a bank or two if all the loans went bad at the same time. Which they didn't. This is Not enough to freeze the entire global financial system.

The unregulated banks were over exposed in the financial markets. They were gambling. The markets took a down turn and because of the exotic financial packages (derivitives, credit default swaps, etc...) the banks didn't know who was solvent and who wasn't. They started calling "bullshit" on each other and the system froze.

This situation developed because the shadow banking system in 2007 had ZERO regulation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_banking_system

>>180264

He didn't get a bail out.

>>180270

There is no "natural" interest rate. It is arbitrary, it is the invention of "the suits".

Bankers know when an interest rate is low, and they know when it is high. That is their job.

>>180314

We keep going around and around in circles. You're addressing the very surface issue with wall-street gambling. But the whole system was build on a fundamentally flawed base of bad loans. Where did those bad loans come from? What did the 800

But please, keep regurgitating rachel maddow for the 5th time.

>>180314
You forget: it wasn't the loans... but the mortgage-backed securities and the fact that banks could loan out 30%+ of their cash-on-hand that were the poison pills: worthless "investments" used to back loans that would never be paid off... and these loans where bundled into worthless investments.

If we actually had true capitalism instead of this bullshit liberal-capitalism/socialism where the government plays favorites (too big to fail...), things would be better: businesses would know that they where on their own and would be forced to make smart moves in order to stay around... so they wouldn't make stupid loans and have no need to create mortgage-backed securities.

Oh, and I for one can't wait for the hippies to get to the port... and face real security.

They forget, with their backs to the sea, the police will feel more trapped and be more will to crack some hippie skulls...

Hippie skulls for the Skull Throne!

>>180366

>But the whole system was build on a fundamentally flawed base of bad loans...

No. The mortgages, the subprime loans, was a tiny amount of money compared to the size of the bail out that was needed for the banking system.

The banks already had fucked themselves by gambling in the markets and trading exotic financial packages, that they didn't understand. The subprime bullshit is just is blamed to distract attention away from the real cause of the crisis. Namely, unregulated banking!

There was no banking crisis in Sweden. They nationalized their banks in 1992. Coincidence?

>>180314
Why were they so risky? Money plays a factor obviously, but if you knew when you got to Vegas that they'd reimburse your money wouldn't you gamble like a fool too?

>>180378

>true capitalism

Which is just a theory. Much like Communism.

>>180393

No one guaranteed the banks. Lehman Brother discovered this to their cost.

The banks were acting irrationally in the pursuit of profits. They got away with this for years because they were unregulated.

>"...the run on the shadow banking system as the "core of what happened" to cause the crisis. "As the shadow banking system expanded to rival or even surpass conventional banking in importance, politicians and government officials should have realized that they were re-creating the kind of financial vulnerability that made the Great Depression possible—and they should have responded by extending regulations and the financial safety net to cover these new institutions."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_banking_system

>>180397
shhh

tread carefully for you tread on their dreams

just let them sleep

>>180397
>>180430
And yet, the OWS people are pushing communism... and you do not mock them

>>180378

The "no true Scotsman" fallacy. Classic.

>>180455

Really? I don't see any "Communism". Haven't seen any "Communism" for years. Unless you call China "Communist".

>>180455
no one is advocating that since there isn't a cohesive movement.

the only thing people should want is fair taxing so that the megarich don't pay a lesser % than say a doctor and fair regulations so that banks can't keep acting irresponsibly and holding the rest of us hostage.

communism will never and has never happened, it's just a pipe dream to get people to vote for them

I want to kick the cameraman's face in for that "all white" comment. Fucking multiculturalist.

>>180476

Indeed. When people start shouting "communism" or "socialism" it's a scare tactic to frighten idiots and detract from the real issues.

When I hear the word "socialist" thrown around I know we are getting to the heart of an issue, and the holders of power are getting uncomfortable.

>>180476
>>megarich don't pay a lesser % than say a doctor
>>Doesn't understand how capital gains work
>>Doesn't understand that "the rich" are assessed at 35%+
>>Just MAD and JELLY about the fact that "the rich" have enough money and time to take full advantage of the tax code... a tax code you can take advantage of too

>>180495

Unless you're making $6 million a year you are not rich - John McCain.

Even Warren Buffet agrees the rich aren't paying their fair share. Why do you defend the rich?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/aug/15/warren-buffett-higher-taxes-super-rich

>>180495

Warren Buffett pays 17% income tax. That's lower than most Americans. Buffett agrees this is wrong.

>>180495
oh I do understand the concept of loopholes and I think they should be closed

and no I don't want to be rich. What's the point of having that much money? buy some stupid car, an i-phone or some fucking shiny bullshit.

>>180476
>>fair taxing
A 50%-rate isn't fair? how much is fair?

How about the people who don't pay taxes... what is fair about them not doing so but taking government services?

>>180505
>>Even Warren Buffet...
Keep holding him up... and forgetting that the IRS is after him and his company for $1BILLION in taxes... keep holding his disingenuous ass up

>>180514
>>Warren Buffett pays 17% income tax.
Buffet PAYS 17%... based on capitol gains rates... capitol gains =/= income tax
Buffet is assessed an effective 50% tax.

FUN FACT for all you "tax the rich" idiots: IF YOU "TAXED THE RICH" AT 99%... YOU WOULDN'T EVEN COVER THE AMOUNT THE US SPENDS FOR A MONTH.

So, bitch about taxes all you want... but it is just a red herring.

>>180528

who are you trying to convince

>>180505
Keep in mind Buffet has refused to actually release any tax data to backup what he paid in taxes. There is a very good chance he is just talking shit.

Furthermore if he feels he is getting too many breaks, which he pays for as he is a good friend and campaign contributor to many politicians. On IRS tax forms there is a nice little space for donations. You are welcome to pay as much extra taxes as you would like.

Buffet can go ahead and pay as much extra money as he would like yet he doesn't.

>>180534
>>180544
It's hilarious how much of a slimy fuck Buffett is ('just happening' to sell all that Moody's stock days before the investigation went public)...and how it's completely alright with Leftists because he agrees with them

>>180514

Please stop being a faggot with the Buffet bullshit. Try calculating his entire tax burden not the one column that supports this redistribution bullshit scheme.

>>180544
If I were him I wouldn't use the donation either.

Point is he's trying to use himself as an example for the injustices that are present in the system. If he just pays, he does nothing to change the system. The only true example he can use is himself since he doesn't have access to how much the others pay.

>>180534

The Republicans taxed the rich at 94% in the 1950s. They reinvested the money in the economy with the development of infrastructure projects. America prospered, conservatives regard the 1950s as America's "golden age".

>>180534

>Buffet PAYS 17%... based on capitol gains rates... capitol gains =/= income tax
>Buffet is assessed an effective 50% tax.

That's not what Buffett says:

>he has calculated that he handed over 17.4% of his income as tax last year – a lower proportion than any of the 20 other people who work in his office.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/aug/15/warren-buffett-higher-taxes-super-rich

Why do you defend the rich who want to pay more?

Are people really comparing this to legitimate revolutions throughout our time?

This isn't even half of what it looks like when Detroit wins a sports championship.

I have absolutely no idea what they're protesting and I don't think theres a single cohesive message.

>>180611
>>he has calculated that he handed over 17.4% of his income as tax last year

Once again, he paid CAPITOL GAINS, not INCOME TAX... there is a difference.

Also, he hasn't given us PROOF that he paid 17%... just his word.

>>178603

>some trucker who won't get paid until he puts his load on that boat is gonna run over a bunch of those sniveling fucks.

Right, because being a convicted murderer will totally help his financial position.

This is the only way protests get anything done.

>>180627

Buffett goes on record stating he paid 17.4% of his income in tax last year. You call him a liar.

Chuckle

>>180627
Well yes, that's how he gets the 17% number, almost all his income is in capital gains.

Of course the capital gains tax rate is going to be 20% soon, but i guess we'll ignore that..

>>180534
>FUN FACT for all you "tax the rich" idiots: IF YOU "TAXED THE RICH" AT 99%... YOU WOULDN'T EVEN COVER THE AMOUNT THE US SPENDS FOR A MONTH.

mfw
Can't tell if stupid or trolling

The higher you build your barricades, the stronger we become.

A general strike? At best they'll grind one section of the economy to a halt while their asses are beat by strikebreakers and the National Guard, if necessary. If you want that kind of activity to have any meaningful impact, it has to be nation-wide. Well, baby steps I guess... The working class is having to re-learn a few forgotten skills and dust off some old weapons in its arsenal. So long as the movement is rank-and-file, it will endure. The moment they outsource organization and leadership to any major political parties or Unions, the game will be up.

>>180701
>mfw fucking communists think anyone will fall for their stupid shit

Every single one of you deserve to be killed.

>>180641

Buffett is stockholder. He was taxed twice and is only talking about capital tax. He's not lying, but he's not being completely honest either.

>>180728

Buffett clearly states:

"...he handed over 17.4% of his income as tax last year – a lower proportion than any of the 20 other people who work in his office."

He thinks this is unjust. Taxes for the rich should, in his opinion, he higher.

>>180749
>>He's not lying, but he's not being completely honest either.

>>180753

>think he knows more about Buffett's income than Buffett.

teehee

>>180753

Why would Buffett claim he is paying lower taxes than he really is, then call for higher taxes on himself?

>>180707

Scared? You should be. Class struggle has been non-existant in the US for too long now. If people get bloody-minded about this it has the potential to actually go places. How far will be dependent on perspective, leadership, goals and popular support.

>>180775
In other words, which set of elites wants to pay the proles to kill the other set of elites.

>>180749

Buffet is taxed twice, once when a company he owns pays taxes and once again once they deliver dividends to him. For instance, let's say he owns half of a company's stock. The company makes a million dollars in profits and pays 35% tax on it. The company has 650k left, and then gives this to stockholders. This 650k is then taxed again. Buffet gets 269k, whereas in a system where there were no taxes he would have gotten 500k. In reality, he paid around 44% in taxes.

>>180793

Entirely possible, and this will be the outcome if the movement is corrupted by a 'vanguard' party or some kind of bourgeois-backed political perspective. People don't seem to understand that you can have perspective without a centralised leadership. You can have ideological heads (Chomsky springs to mind as he addressed OWS Boston), but they must not lead the movement, they must only advise at the very most. Rank-and-file committees are the way to go, coordinating themselves and cooperating with others elsewhere. No head for the government to cut off, no head to turn around and murder its followers in thanks for their support in its ascent to power.

>>180819
>No head for the government to cut off, no head to turn around and murder its followers in thanks for their support in its ascent to power.

I fear that you're wrong. Why do you think the police always show up at these things with high end video equipment, not to mention the monitoring of internet for any dissidents or people promoting change/violence/whatever.

The __Central__ Workers Council of Greater Budapest lost two leaderships to Soviet arrest in 1956, and they still hadn't run out of central-urban leadership capable workers.

Leaders are replaceable.

>>178783
>class uncle tom's
we should coin this term and get it into circulation

UNCLE SAM'S, eh?

doesn't really ring with the definition, though

>>180793
>implying one crow attacks the other

Jay Gould: “I can always hire half the working class to shoot the other half.”

>>180812

>In reality, he paid around 44% in taxes.

Why would Buffettt lie about paying low taxes, then call for higher taxes on himself?

Answer that!

>>180459
been on wikipedia today haven't we?

>>180812

Because he's old and doesn't need money? And he's not lying. He's just not being completely truthful.

>>180833

Yes, the security apparatus of the state is an ever-present challenge, and must be met with an uncompromising will and dedication to the movement. The jails are already full to bursting as it is. The courts, as they are in Britain, will have to run 24 hours a day to have a hope in hell of processing people if it gets big enough. That's the idea, however, they cannot jail entire cities...as much as they might like to.

The greatest threat will be the declaration of martial law in an attempt to 'restore order.' The government, however, will not lock down the entire country if it can avoid it. It will do it piecemeal, in an attempt to deal with the problem in a manageable way. This is why a nation-wide effort is so critical. If a state has to declare martial law, then it is a sign it is desperate. If the entire country enters martial law, it will be the crisis point that they have strived so hard to avoid.

What happens next is anyone’s guess.

>>180812

If Buffett was taxed at 44% he would have stated he is taxed at 44%.

Buffett went on record as paying 17.4% of his income as tax.

Please explain why you think Buffett is lying?

>>180872
if the US declares martial law for the first time in ever, it's going to have a placebo effect on the rest of the world... enter SHTF

>>180871

>thinks he knows more about Buffett's income than Buffett.

chuckle

>>180871

Buffett is lying because he is old?

HAHAHAHAHAHahahahahaha

You sir, are an idiot.

>>180873
>>Please explain why you think Buffett is lying?
-Money
-Power
-Fame

>>180878

Absolutely. Despite its relative decline, the US is still the center of world Capitalism. It is the largest single economy in the world (the EU being the largest collective), and China and Japan, the world's second and third largest economies, are tied intimately to US economic power. The US goes, the shockwave will be worldwide, which will in turn precipitate uprisings and revolutions around the world. Some for the best, some for the worst no doubt, but that's what revolutionaries sign up for when they butt heads with the system. They take risks, in an attempt to reap the rewards...

>>180914
>"i pay few taxes"
>result: higher taxes

durr he's lying for money

>>180914

Buffet already has money, power and fame. Calling for higher taxes on himself will reduce his money, and thus his power. He has got some column inches in news papers but it is hardly making him any more famous.

Buffett is just being honest, the rich don't pay enough tax. Not as much as the average Joe, anyway.

>>180919
>The US goes, the shockwave will be worldwide, which will in turn precipitate uprisings and revolutions around the world.

In the same way that if the Euro goes down, we all do. There are many ways for it all to go wrong within the next year and that's not even addressing the coming war with Iran that could drag Russia and China against the west.

>>180931
"If one understands that socialism is not a share-the-wealth program, but is in reality a method to consolidate and control the wealth, then the seeming paradox of superrich men promoting socialism becomes no paradox at all. Instead it becomes the logical, even the perfect tool of power-seeking megalomaniacs. Communism, or more accurately, socialism, is not a movement of the downtrodden masses, but of the economic elite." – Gary Allen

>>180944

Are you claiming Buffett is a Socialist?

Hhahahahahahahahahahhaaaa

>>180944

Socialism is "a commitment to the common ownership of the means of production".

How is Buffett a Socialist?

>>180949
I am saying Buffet is a rich person advocating a method to consolidate and control the wealth.

He's not being honest at all.

The right wing really are this insane.

They are calling Buffet a socialist because he thinks it is unfair for a rich person to pay 17.4% of his annual income in tax while the poor pay a lot more.

>>180934

True dat...

>addressing the coming war with Iran that could drag Russia and China against the west.

God, I really hope this doesn't happen. China gets most of its oil from Iran. China and Russia are strategic partners (not allies) and share a similar 'fuck the US and NATO' worldview when it comes to geostrategy, though they hardly trust each other. If the US threatens China, they may indirectly threaten Russia, who may start dicking around with the EU's gas supply and who knows where that will lead. Moreover, Iran has openly threatened to bombard the UAE's and Saudi Arabia's oilfields and lock down the Strait of Hormuz if shit goes down. That alone would cause an oil crisis, and thus another global meltdown.

Shit is scary.

>>180954
>socialists ignore reality and constantly promote their meaningless rhetoric

you weren't there charlie...

>>180957

>Buffet is a rich person advocating a method to consolidate and control the wealth.

Wut?

Buffett is simply stating he thinks it is unfair that he pays less tax than everyone else because he's rich.

How would he gain any power by paying more in tax?

You was my brother, Charley, you shoulda looked out for me a little bit

>>180976

Socialism is the commitment to the common ownership of the means of production. Without this commitment you are not a Socialist.

This isn't hard to understand.

>>180975
All it would take for mass civil unrest would be a disruption in the energy supply.

For instance here in the UK we have 2 weeks worth of natural gas in reserve for the power stations, most of our energy comes from natural gas so after 2 weeks you're looking at rationed power and all the glory that leads too in a technology driven 21st century.

A disruption in the petroleum supply and they'll be mass riots. No food gets delivered, no on can afford to fill up cars/trucks so no one goes to work, no taxes are payed etc etc etc.

>>180976

>Doesn't understand what Socialism is.

>>180998
I'd also imagine in that kind of situation, due to the demographics of the UK, that the government would pull all its resources into regaining control of the south east as that is where the infrastructure, power, wealth and financial centres are.
Out here in the sticks I would think we'd be left to fend for ourselves.

>>180976

>Meaningless rhetoric
>?

No, I'm using the definition of Socialism. If what you are describing does not fit the definition of Socialism, then it is not Socialism.

How can this be so hard to understand.

>>180987
He's advocating higher taxes because as any rich person knows taxes are a means to take money from the middle class and give it to the rich.

It's not even possible to tax rich people. They just pass the costs on to their customers.

Taxes have always been nobility confiscating wealth from the working man and they always will be. That is their very nature.

>>181131
how would a higher capital gains tax affect the middle class?

>>181131

Buffett has specifically promoted a "billionaires tax". NOT a tax on the middle class.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/sep/18/obama-millionaire-tax-war

>>181131

Obama has cut taxes for the middle class. Bet you didn't know that.

The Buffett tax is only for the super rich.