They are insane.

>defended you from communism.

No , that was a dictatorship led by Stalin. Not a communist society.

>>1366999
it's easy to assume that when they persist in an ideology which is demonstrably flawed but I wanted a Euro perspective on it.

Because it doesn't fail every time it is implemented.

See: Germany, Canada, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark.

American policies of bank rolling a bankrupt post-war Europe pretty much ensured this result.

>>1367012
>no true scotsman

>>1366971
Oh god, you're one of those people that thinks the Nazis were socialists? Protip: just because it says so in the name doesn't mean it's true.
The saving from communism thing is a bit double; there were a fair amount of people that wanted communism at that time. I don't see how you can protect 'freedom', yet at the same time not granting people the freedom to become communist.
Also, communism has always been implemented in societies that weren't ready (Marx said a society should first become capitalist, then socialist, then communist). Russia and China were pretty much feudal states when the communists came to power. Besides all that, I'm not too sure about communism failing every time. Sure, the USSR failed, but China is doing pretty well, and I'd rather live in Cuba than in the USA.
If you're wondering, I'm Belgian (Flemish).

Yea I know it sucks OP. I hate it too.

>>1367037
>China is doing pretty well

By applying capatism

>Cuba

Yeah hot bitches who will do anything for a few dollars but your saying you would be happy to live in a society where you can be arrested for criticizing the ruling communist elite?

>>1367020
Euro crisis much?

>>1367037
>there were a fair amount of people that wanted communism at that time

Just fuck off.

The eurotrash are soon going to be crushed under their own weight via the EU and America will bail them out again.
It's like being a parent who always gets a loved child out of trouble.
Sad, but sort of enduring.

>>1367082
>America will bail them out again.

But we wont.
Whats the point of bailing them out yet again if they are just going to carry on fucking up their continent via socialism. American people have seen this and wont fall for it again

>>1367108
Because every time America lends money abroad they get to sit pay and enjoy all the interest payments for the next 60 years.

>>1367108
They have already done it, are still doing it and will do more of it. The Fed has bought European government bonds in 'secret' for a while now.

>>1367074
Note how I cited nations that AREN'T in serious economic trouble, dumbass.

Surely hope OP doesn't live in a fantasy world where Europe is actually socialist because here in real world it's very much varying degrees of interventionist capitalism and mixed markets in Europe and not a single socialist country. And no, those socialist parties aren't even socialdemocratic and don't change shit when they get their turn in governing their respective countries.

Europe isn't socialist. Their economies are mixed market economies like the U.S, but with a comparatively stronger public sector. Socialism entails workers owning the means of production, fundamentally. This is in no way describes Europe, besides I suppose a couple of instances, such as in Norway where a good chunk of the oil industry is publicly owned.

>>1366971
>America saved you from socialism in WW2
Nope
>then post WW2 defended you from communism
I suppose the US did have a presence, but ultimately didn't anything to defend anyone from communism.
>So why do you persist in an ideology why fails every time it is implemented?
Where's the socialist nation you speak of?

> you would be happy to live in a society where you can be arrested for criticizing the ruling communist elite?

>US you would be happy to live in a society where you can be arrested for criticizing the ruling media elite? (SOPA, PIPA, ACTA)

fixed for you

>>1367070
>By applying 'capatism'
Not exactly, although no doubt you would like to believe that. China was a completely unimportant place before the communist takeover, now it's one of the major world powers.
>Cuba
Say what you will, at least they have health care and a higher standard of education than the US.
>>1367077
HUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRR my world view is not compatible with yours! Only what I want to believe is true!
Seriously dude, a lot of countries had a sizeable communist resistance, and there were actual fears that France and Italy, possibly Belgium and Germany would become communist.

>>1367176
socialism is so toxic it doesent matter if full socialism is implemented, it is such an unworkable system it fails the country in question

>>1367176
i'm a plumber who own his own tools(or means of production in commie language) does that make me a communist?

>>1367074
>Germany, Canada, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark
>Euro crisis much?
You relies none of these nations caused the crisis?
Only 2 of those nations are even in the Eurozone.

>>1367220
>now it's one of the major world powers.

so its a complete coincidence that only since limited capitalism was allowed in China it has become the global power it is know

>>1367212
then why arent people that critize the media being arrested?

>>1367220
>HUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRR my world view is not compatible with yours! Only what I want to believe is true!

My girlfriend, her family, and in fact all the people I've spoken to about living in the GDR would agree with me. Now fuck off.

>hurr but i read it was nice in a book

No.

its butthurt pure and simple. its amazing how well that word sums up european behavior.

as an american imagine the power and prestige that you once had is taken away and now not only is your influence and power significantly diminished, you also have a foreign power who you disagree with on a lot of issues and is culturally different who is now in power and shapes world politics.

i'd be pretty butthurt too.

>>1367238
Yeah dude, China is only strong because of limited capitalism; in fact if it weren't for the communists, China would be the new USA!!!!
In all seriousness, China's economy is still heavily monitored by the Chinese state. For example, they are artificially holding the Yuan down. They have some capitalist influences no doubt, but claiming China's power came to be only through this limited capitalism is just plain retarded.

>>1367244
Can't change the facts, bro. 'I spoke to twelve people and they said communism was bad!'. Seriously, I study history, live in Europe and read a fuckload of books. I think I know what I'm talking about. Denying facts like that there was a substantial communist movement in Western Europe whether you like it or not is just bloody retarded.

The current global economic crisis started in the US. The US is not a Communist country. If it were, a global economic crisis wouldn't have occurred when the US economy tanked.

Conclusion:
Communism = stable economy.

>inb4 the USSR was Communist. Nope. State Capitalism to the max.

>>1367303
Yea life there was fucking awesome, it must have only been a handful of people that hated it. The wall collapsing and the ussr dissolving was just those dirty capitalists staging a coup.

>>1367275
I suggest you improve your education or stop trolling

>>1367275
>implying US's problems aren't a result of its leftist policies

>implying China isn't successful only because it opened up its economy to private investors and private ownership/business

i'm amazed at how stupid people are.

America didnt save Hungary among other contries from Commies you fooks.

>>1367265
>Implying american'ts have to 'imagine' their current place in the world and their relationship with China.

>>1367224

Providing some public services like education and health care is not socialist, any more than providing defence is.

Regarding the public sector, ultimately you want the optimal mix of public and private in your economy. It's like lemonade; the main ingredient is naturally the lemons (the private sector) but you can't make lemonade with just lemons; you need water and sugar as well. But you can't have too much water (too watery) or too much sugar (too sweet).

>>1367228

no.

/r/ing the cartoon of an american soldier taking an interview on how they "are ending the war" when in the meantime, the eastern front is where the actual war is at

>communism saves europe from nazis
>europe: DEM COMMIES R BAD

>>1367343
what relationship is that?

a bunch of poor chinamen that make our junk and own a 6th of our debt? you might as well say japan owns the US since the US borrows about the same amount from them.

nice china hysteria though.

>>1367371

>>1367402
Thank you

>>1367176
>mixed economies
>mixed
>implying its not called that because its a mix between capitalism and socialism

i love how leftists have this extremely narrow view of socialism and any variation of it they scream "thats not socialism1!!!"

>So why do you persist in an ideology why fails every time it is implemented?
Norway disagrees with you.

>Implying Social Democracy with Keynesian Market-Capitalism as practiced in Europe = Communism/Socialism.

You can be against Social Democracy and Keynesian Market Capitalism but calling the system we have in European countries communist or socialist is retarded.

Educate yourself.

The USSR promised a brotherhood of man
The US promised selfishness and rampant consumerism.

>>1367460
It won't when it either runs out of oil or we decide we don't need oil any more.

>>1367438
>>1367402
>implying the war wouldn't have lasted much longer and been much more brutal without the US involvement.

>implying without the US involvement you'd all be speaking russian and western europe would've ended up like eastern europe.

jesus euroopoor butthurt is epic

Can someone post that comic about eastern europe that says:

"the evil, bloodthirsty soviets rampaged through our country..."

"leaving behind airports, hospitals, highways, schools, universities, power plants and factories"

>>1367492
>JackBurton
>implying reputationLeft > 0

>>1367377
>communism saves europe from nazis
wtfamireading.jpg

>>1367492
Armchair general general?

>>1367464
so·cial·ism/ˈsōSHəˌlizəm/
Noun:
A political and economic theory of that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated...
(in Marxist theory) A transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of communism.

so pretty much everything mentioned ITT applies. stop trying to feel smart by limiting socialism to your own made up definition

>>1367467
>Implying oil is the only revenue that Norway have.
>Implying Norway is not on the forefront of new technology
>Implying Norway is not one of the countries in the world with the highest rate of entrepreneurs.

>>1367504
isn't that what this entire thread is?

>we didn't need the US the russians would've saved us and then completely left us alone and everything would've been perfect, just like Eastern Europe

>>1367465
>The USSR promised a brotherhood of man
What they promised couldn't have a more stark contrast of what they actually delivered. Read up on actual history sometime, you fucking minion.

>>1367527
Oil is the mainstay of the country, without it it would go the way of the UK.

>>1367527
>implying Norway is any of those things.

>still being a communist
>2012

>>1367527
>Implying Norway is not on the forefront of new technology
>Implying Norway is not one of the countries in the world with the highest rate of entrepreneurs.

Yep, not a day goes by where I'm not influenced by Norwegian products that are breaking the barriers of technology.....

>>1367570
Europe is not communist. They just kept the good aspects of it.

>>1367592
Being anti socialist is bigotry now?

>>1367518

I love how you left out the most important part in that quote since it would have killed your argument. "...should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole."

This does not exist in Europe. Means of production is not in the hands of the people. Also, noone except for a tiny minority of maybe 1-2% wants to move towards communism in Europe.

Also, calling countries like Germany economic failures is so stupid it makes my head spin.

I can just state again, educate yourself about Europe and its political and economic system.

>>1367594
>good aspects of communism

>>1367610
Bad Religion

>>1367604
>should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole."

how is that not the same thing?

lrn2publicvsprivate

and i just googled the definition

>2012
>Tripfagging

>>1367604
Stop responding to Jack Burton. He's a gimmicky troll who migrated from /int/ when this board was revived. In case you haven't figured it out yet, he flamebaits people by pretending to be as conservative as possible and making murrica strong threads.

>>1367555
Oil is the main export article in Norway, but we are in no way dependant on it.
Oil will not disappear over night and we will have plenty of time to adapt our economy to a society with no oil.
In addition we got the State retirement fund abroad that have grown drastically the last years thanks to sound investments.

>>1367560
>Implying it is not.

>Socialism = Stalinism
>Communism = Stalinism

>>1367604
regulation equals socialism and regulation and state ownership of certain industries is all over the place.

thus socialism

Which European country falls to socialism or communism, OP?

>>1366971
>America saved you from socialism in WW2, then post WW2 defended you from communism.
Isn't fascism not necessary in a socialistic system? Wasn't it fascism we were fighting in WW2?

>>1367646
>Oil will not disappear over night and we will have plenty of time to adapt our economy to a society with no oil.

Because people will be to lazy thanks to welfare and cultural enirchment you wont

So you are arguing about things that you had to google to define and understand?

No point in having any type of intellectual conversation with you about this topic.

/thread

>>1367660
Fascism is anti-capitalist, anti-socialist and anti-communist.

>>1367646
>implying you don't just rely on your natural resources to keep a decent standard of living, and rely completely on foreign products from more capitalist countries.

if every country was like Norway nothing would ever get done, invented etc.

>>1367675
and actually a blend of all of them.

fascism is a very leftwing ideology

>America saved you from socialism in WW2
No, socialism saved us from the Germans, that's more like it.
>then post WW2 defended you from communism
No, we were communist and it was the best period in Croatian history until Americans and Germans ruined it.

>America saved you

stopped reading

>>1367070
if having a red flag makes the ussr communist then the same logic applies to china

>>1367670
>Don't know shit about Norway or the norwegian society
>Make stupid assumptions

>>1367677
Denmark, Sweden, Germany? All welfare states and no oil.
Explain this.

>>1367660
Partially

Italy under Mussoliny was fascist
Germany was National Socialism - clues in the title, and if you look at the Nazi german economy it is socialism.

>>1367644
>stereotypical butthurt europoor

>implying i ever start murrica strong threads

>>1367708
The Nazis had no worker councils. They were not socialist.

>>1367714

>2012
>Tripfagging

>>1367692
>>1367692
>was the best period in Croatian history

translation his mother didnt get raped by Serbian dick until the fall of communism

>>1367736
>until the fall of communism
That's when we won a total victory against the Serbs. My mother was pretty far away from Serbs while my father was sweeping Krajina next to Gotovina.

>>1367707
>Denmark, Sweden, Germany? All welfare states and no oil.

Please explain, OP.

>>1367707
>Denmark, Sweden, Germany? All welfare states and no oil.
Explain this.

denmark and sweden have a very small largely white and educated population

Germany is less socialistic(notice how thats a word?, just proved some anon wrong)

and all these countries have lower standard of living than the US

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mean_household_income

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index

Norway's oil fund is larger than any pension fund in the world, largest stock owner in Europe and worth more than GDP of Pennsylvania or Ohio. Because the oil money has been invested and not injected to the chavs, Norway will never crash because of lack of oil or be poor like UK.

>>1367783
Those nations are buckets of crabs

When Europes greatest statesman gives the following quote which is ignored in Europe
'Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.'
It's time to give up on our Euro brothers, one day they might get wise but I suspect it will take the bankruptcy of their continent for them to realism

>>1367788

>2012
>Tripfagging

Americans trying to teach Europeans how2economy is hilarious.

Funny thread, please keep going!

>>1367788

All of them have greater wages/hour worked and greater GDP/hour worked than US. Why work your ass out and be fat and stupid.

>>1367811
is that your response to being TOLD?

>>1367788

They have only lower median household income because they pay more taxes.

And on Index of Human developpemend they are all pretty much the same (USA: 0.910, Germany: 0,905)

>>1367850
>They have only lower median household income because they pay more taxes.

Thinks this is a good thing, good socialist, good

>>1367830
greater wages means shit if your purchasing power is lower

>fat and stupid

is that your response to having a shittier system and being poorer?

>>1367834
That was not my comment.
The funny part is how you claim socialism or any tendency of socialism is the doings of the devil and you use charts that show the differences between the US and said countries are close to nothing as proof that socialism is flawed.

>>1367872

High Tax has it's pros and cons, but that wasn't the point here.

>>1367890
Don't know that the top countries on purchasing power is European and that Norway is top 3.

Any Brits on here
Care to explain why your mainly nationalized heavy industries failed in the 70s leaving your country tagged as the sick man of europe.
How it took a right wing politician to prevent your country going bankrupt (again)

>>1367918
Thatcher ruined the UK like Reagan ruined the US.

>>1367850
in all honesty having lived in Germany and traveled throughout Europe, Germany had the highest quality of life barring switzerland. but they all live a more meager lifestyle without the luxuries most americans take for granted

>>1367890

>greater wages and productivity mean jack shit

Stay poor, fatty.

No, it's not a rebuttal but the truth