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    File : 1319882198.gif-(33 KB, 252x252, ~SPA-SPAGLOBELOGO.gif)
    33 KB Why american hates socialist? DeadlySerious 10/29/11(Sat)05:56 No.112580  
    >> !!BJiYgff8zf2 10/29/11(Sat)05:57 No.112584
    Why are you a faggot? Serious question
    >> shy lil whyte boi !!mEaQjli749V 10/29/11(Sat)05:57 No.112586
    everyone gets ice cream cones
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)05:57 No.112587
    Because we don't like waiting 3 hours in line for bread and 1-ply toilet paper.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:00 No.112606
    Because we have the most corrupt government in the world and giving it more power is retarded.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:00 No.112611
    Because they have a long history of failed states and hundreds of millions dead
    >> Antistatist Emperor Dragon Envoy of the End !VoonmBZbSs 10/29/11(Sat)06:03 No.112625
    Because i hate people.
    >> shy lil whyte boi !!mEaQjli749V 10/29/11(Sat)06:06 No.112645
    i myself am already a socialist of the national variety
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:06 No.112649
    >>112611
    this is what unitedstatians actually believe
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:07 No.112651
    Americans don't hate socialism because they don't even understand the concept. For them, showing any kind of solidarity with weaker individuals is socialism. That's why their only sense of unity is their exaggerated patriotism I guess. There is not much left when every group in their society hates every other group.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:07 No.112652
    >>112649

    The truth?
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:10 No.112669
    >>112651

    The average american doesn't like it because of the free-rider problem. But that's about it
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:12 No.112680
    it's the road to Communism
    also been adopted as a means to attack welfarism
    >> Moody !ONvKXloDL6 10/29/11(Sat)06:15 No.112695
    >>112651
    >For them, showing any kind of solidarity with weaker individuals is socialism

    I really love how you overlooked private charities when you pulled all that bullshit out of your ass.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:16 No.112700
    >>112669
    There is no significant free-rider problem. So it seems like the average American has heard to much conservative propaganda.
    (And I'm not even talking about actual socialism, but a basic social safety net that the American conservatives so despise. Not the American people though, as polls have shown. It's not like the American people have anything to say when corporations opposed to solidarity and social safety control the right wing and Congress.)
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:16 No.112706
    >>112649

    You've never seen the death tolls?

    65 million in the People's Republic of China
    20 million in the Soviet Union
    2 million in Cambodia
    2 million in North Korea
    1.7 million in Africa
    1.5 million in Afghanistan
    1 million in the Communist states of Eastern Europe
    1 million in Vietnam
    150,000 in Latin America
    10,000 deaths "resulting from actions of the international Communist movement and Communist parties not in power."
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:17 No.112713
    >>112700

    I'm sure you are correct, the people who didn't work in the U.S.S.R where shot.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:17 No.112714
    >>112695
    Those glorified private charities didn't stop poverty rates in the US from increasing while the incomes of the wealthiest skyrocketed. So it seems like the wealth doesn't trickle down as much as you think it will.
    Not to mention that conservatives want to make it as hard as possible for some private charities to operate. (e.g. planned parenthood.)

    Speak of pulling bullshit out of your ass.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:18 No.112720
    >>112706
    We're not talking about it. We talk about basic social safety net, which are called socialism in American English.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:19 No.112722
    CUZ THERE GUNNA TERK OUR FREEDDOOMZZ AND TAKES OUR MONIEZ AND GIVE THEM TO TEH POOR PEOPLES WHO DEOSNT WORKSZ!!!
    >> Antistatist Emperor Dragon Envoy of the End !VoonmBZbSs 10/29/11(Sat)06:19 No.112725
    >>112651
    I live in the area popularly defined as the US and hate socialism without having any sense of nationalism.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:19 No.112726
    >>112714

    THOSE EVIL BASTARDS!

    http://www.onlinecertificateprograms.org/blog/2011/10-wealthy-americans-who-give-the-most-back/
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:19 No.112727
    >>112680
    first half decent post! kudos

    any social reform is branded socialism, thats why your middle und lower class is fucked. Thanks to Fox you dont even know what socialism really is.

    more socialism is what the protesters want, even if they dont know it yet.

    Nobody is asking for a socialist dictatorship, but maybe you should take care of your people.

    American society doesnt give a shit about its weak, even in the stoneage people got it more right then that
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:20 No.112734
    >>112669
    The average american doesn't like it because it's the new "communist", nothing more. Just like they didn't know what communism was then, they don't know what socialism is now. They are xenophobic uneducated simpletons who appeal to their emotions to make decisions. My fellow countrymen are an embarrassment to all civilized countries.

    There is nothing wrong with socialism. Sure it's not perfect, but I'll be damned if it isn't the best political ideology to support. It takes the best of capitalism and communism and blends them together for the benefit of the society it is enacted in greatly. If you say there is no incentive to work for something better, I'll e-slap the shit out of you and redirect you to wikipedia to see what socialism actually means.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:21 No.112737
    Capitalism has worked for us very well and we are intolerant towards it being replaced.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:21 No.112740
    >>112726
    10 wealthy exceptions. And again, you ignored what my post actually said. I said that poverty increased while the wealthiest got even more wealth. So obviously the charities don't compensate for that.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:21 No.112742
    >>112727

    And yet we're more charitable than most scandinavian countries... weird

    http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/09/the-most-generous-countries-on-earth/
    >> DeadlySerious 10/29/11(Sat)06:21 No.112747
    thats communism, the socialism is different dude, check in europe like France or Belgium what socialism give to them(sry for my english :))
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:22 No.112754
    >>112714

    lol planned parenthood

    the leftwing solution to the negro problem :)
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:22 No.112757
    The people's flag is deepest red,
    It shrouded oft our martyred dead,
    And ere their limbs grew stiff and cold,
    Their hearts' blood dyed its ev'ry fold.
    [Then raise the scarlet standard high.]
    [Within its shade we'll live and die,]
    [Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer,]
    [We'll keep the red flag flying here.]
    Look 'round, the Frenchman loves its blaze,
    The sturdy German chants its praise,
    In Moscow's vaults its hymns are sung
    Chicago swells the surging throng.
    [Then raise the scarlet standard high. Within its shade we'll live and die, Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer, We'll keep the red flag flying here.]
    It waved above our infant might,
    When all ahead seemed dark as night;
    It witnessed many a deed and vow,
    We must not change its colour now.
    [Then raise the scarlet standard high. Within its shade we'll live and die, Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer, We'll keep the red flag flying here.]
    It well recalls the triumphs past,
    It gives the hope of peace at last;
    The banner bright, the symbol plain,
    Of human right and human gain.
    [Then raise the scarlet standard high. Within its shade we'll live and die, Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer, We'll keep the red flag flying here.]
    It suits today the weak and base,
    Whose minds are fixed on pelf and place
    To cringe before the rich man's frown,
    And haul the sacred emblem down.
    [Then raise the scarlet standard high. Within its shade we'll live and die, Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer, We'll keep the red flag flying here.]
    With heads uncovered swear we all
    To bear it onward till we fall;
    Come dungeons dark or gallows grim,
    This song shall be our parting hymn.
    [Then raise the scarlet standard high. Within its shade we'll live and die, Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer, We'll keep the red flag flying here.]
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:22 No.112760
    >>112742
    And yet quality of life is much higher in the Scandinavian countries, which are also more democratic, transparent and their markets are more free(!) than the ones in the US.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:22 No.112761
    >>112747

    Europe has no socialist nation
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:23 No.112764
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    Niggers and spics.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:23 No.112766
    >>112754
    I see, you guys don't support private charities after all. Not surprise. Conservative hypocrisy and bigotry is widespread.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:23 No.112768
    Socialism's core tennant is the destruction of "private property". Which is what we Americans (fuck ya) employee to ensure individualism.

    TLDR: socialism = no property = no individual rights = no individualism = not american
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:24 No.112771
    >>112747

    they aren't really socialist though...
    they have aspects of socialism

    just like the US has aspects of socialism (medicare/caid for example)

    Proper socialists are complete retards
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:24 No.112772
    >>112757
    Nice song, pity it won't protect you from our capitalist weapons.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:24 No.112776
    ITT: Once again, uneducated morons who think communism = socialism, again. Fucking idiots.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:25 No.112782
    You earn what you get and you keep what you earn. Basic principle for anyone who wants a productive, motivated country.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjuk6ktiueE
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:25 No.112786
    >>112776
    How is it up there in that ivory tower?
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:26 No.112791
    >>112720

    The so-called "social safety net" is one of the worst things that has ever happened to the poor. Minimum wage, public housing, "free" schooling, high taxes, inflation, unrealistic regulations, business tax, all these and more are government measures that keep the poor from being able to work themselves up.

    The only system that will truly benefit everyone in society, from the poorest to the richest, is the free market system.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:27 No.112794
    >>112786
    >Implying you have to be in college to not be an idiot.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:28 No.112801
    >>112791
    >the dole
    >handouts
    Yeah, Americans are hostile towards dependence... it's a good thing.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:28 No.112808
    >>112791
    Then you are doing it wrong. It works quite well in other countries.

    >The only system that will truly benefit everyone in society, from the poorest to the richest, is the free market system.
    Bullshit ideology without any empirical support. The middle class was created by government redistribution and your hypothetical free market is only that, some hypothetical fantasy.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:30 No.112821
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    Because I am entitled as a human being, to the fruits of my labors and it is wrong for coercive governmental authorities to steal those fruits and distribute them to those that are too lazy to work within the system.
    inb4 your liberal "big business is evil" bullshit, that's not how a true free market works, if you don't understand then read up on some Friedman, Hayek, etc.
    >> Antistatist Emperor Dragon Envoy of the End !VoonmBZbSs 10/29/11(Sat)06:30 No.112823
    >>112776
    They both have the underlying assumption that things are communally owned and can be voted on to be taken away. I could care less if its "soft" communism its communism.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:30 No.112827
    >>112766

    I don't really care either way on the planned parenthood issue (ie i'm not a hardcore conservative)

    I just find it amusing that planned parenthood disproportionately effects african americans, its indirect genocide under the guise of 'choice', from lefties...its amusing
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:32 No.112835
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    >>112821
    Here, here
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:32 No.112840
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    >>112791

    word
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:34 No.112847
    >>112706
    out of those countries I would consider only Vietnam socialistic.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:35 No.112855
    >>112847

    Then you should be glad he didn't list isreal.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:36 No.112859
    Let the little workers keep their coins.
    They'll each want to buy something different.
    They'll never come together to gain the power found in collective bargaining.
    It's called divide and conquer.

    OR

    We buy the vital services, en mass.
    We force suppliers to spend on making goods, on R&D, on keeping their workforce efficient and happy.
    Not on mass advertising and lining their own pockets.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:37 No.112866
    The inherent problems with socialism are amplifications of the things Americans do not like about the form of government the American system has degraded into.

    Americans are already disgusted with the idea that federal government officials dictate how much of our salary is to be removed from our paychecks before it even gets to our pockets. Not only do the feds decide how much to take but they decide how they are going to spend it.

    Americans want to work hard for their money so that they can earn a better living for themselves. Americans just want the federal government to get out of the way, stay in the background, do not speak until spoken to.

    The key is hard work. That means being competitive. That means parents need to push their kids hard from early schooling to demand the most out of themselves. That means at some point in early high school those kids need to have a good idea what they want out of college. That means in college those kids are no longer kids, they are young adults. They must work hard to build their foundations to move their lives upwards towards a career. Compete in career goals, compete with management of personal finances, and so on until retirement.

    That internal competitive spirit is the driving force in America. When government impedes or retards the ability for Americans to compete is when Americans run back to their Constitutional moorings. Socialism is for the lazy defeatists.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:38 No.112871
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    >>112821
    >>112821
    >>112821

    omg someone has a functioning mind on the internet
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:39 No.112875
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    81 KB
    Helping the poor is not wrong. Creating financially viable (if that's even possible, I'm not saying it is or isn't) social safety nets is not wrong.
    One of the core beliefs that come out of Marxist ideologies is that private property is a bad thing and THAT is why true Americans and socialism don't mix well. Out country was founded on classical liberal values that point out that true freedom comes with property rights, weak government and civil society, none of which seem to jive with the Marxist ideologies.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:39 No.112877
    >>112791
    niggayoujustwentfullretard.jpg

    You think the free market system works? REALLY?!?! WOW. You know jack shit about politics or the effects they have on your average person. Are you the same person posting Ron Paul shit too? The completely unregulated free market system is so fucked up it's ridiculous. You ARE advocating anarcho-capitalism. Go check wikipedia for more info.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:40 No.112879
    >>112580
    >Why american hates socialist?

    its about religion.

    americans associate socialism with communism - and communists with atheists - and the idea of atheism is repugnant to americans.

    If socialists were publicly very religious Americans would eat up their principles up like krispy kreme doughnuts.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:41 No.112888
    >>112776

    implying any of those shitty authoritarian states were ever communist (which would be just as if not more shitty)

    guess what bro, most of those 'communist' states are socialist ones

    european socialist states are capitalist with some state owned/regulated industries
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:41 No.112889
    >>112879
    I agree with you, very much so, but also this>>112734
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:42 No.112891
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    >>112821

    This.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:44 No.112905
    >>112821

    The value of the fruits of your labors is set by the market.
    The market exists at the will of the people.
    If the people have set an entry tax on the market, you'll pay it.
    Or take yourself and your goods to another country.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:44 No.112906
    >>112877
    >>112877

    >Free Market doesn't work

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gilded_Age
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:45 No.112911
    What the fuck are you guys even talking about.

    Nordic countries have nothing to with socialism, if anything they prove that Marx was full of shit. We managed to create a relatively safe, equal and prosperous society without class struggle or mass nueder of the elite. We are not on our way to communist utopia and we never were.

    The only thing the Nordic model shows is that good society is based on compromises and inablity of any group to make decisions alone so that people don't see each other as sworn enemies.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:46 No.112919
    >>112911
    >>112911

    The only thing the Nordic system shows is how nice it is to have an incredibly favorable population: resource ratio.

    Look up Kuwait for more information.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:46 No.112921
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    >>112859

    the only way big business can ever sustain a monopoly or attempt to abuse the people and "divide and conquer them" is with the help of the government... how much sense does it make to empower that enabling force....
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:46 No.112924
    >>112905
    The market exists despite the government.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agorism
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:47 No.112929
    >>112877

    Yes, I know what anarcho-capitalism is and I think it would be a lot better than current society.

    It seems you, however, have been indoctrinated by government propaganda. I suggest you look at some Milton Friedman videos on YouTube to see what the actual effects of these policies are, because they are disastrous.

    I can't believe that there are so many socialists on here today. It makes me sad to see so many misinformed people spreading the government's and bankers' lies.

    >>112808

    I think I live in one of those "other countries" you are referring to. I live in the Netherlands. Though, if you had paid any attention to actual numbers, you'd see that most European countries have about as much of a free market(if not more so) as the USA nowadays. And we get the same problems. Rising costs for the lower classes, corruption, ineffective economic management... It could all be so much better without government intervention in the economy.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:48 No.112935
    >>112906
    >implying the government didn't establish monopolies and give land grants to railroads

    Nice try though.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:49 No.112943
    >>112866
    This.

    And a question for those who desire Socialism..

    What happens when your chosen Socialist government officials tell you that you can't have a new laptop, or that you can't have a new refrigerator, or that you can't have the brand of cigarettes you want? It is inevitable. Eventually the socialist tentacles come around to touch something you treasure and take it away. And when you find out that the ultra-wealthy are even more powerful and privileged than ever before,then what? Revolt again? Right. Try revolting in a Socialist society and see if you don't end up dead like the millions of Chinese and Soviets have.

    Its Saturday, its 6:45 AM. I'm up because I'm going to work today. I'm lucky to have a job that lets me work six days a week. I'm one day ahead of you. I guess that makes me one of those who likes competition.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:50 No.112947
    >>112924

    So many niggers on this board...if I round them up, where can I sell them?
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:52 No.112954
    >>112943
    That's whats great about a free market. If you don't have economic freedom then how can you have social freedom?

    Learnliberty.org - Economic liberty vs. civil liberty
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWAyEzyp2xQ
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:54 No.112962
    >>112947
    Wouldn't know, here's something from a quick google search.

    http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa061202a.htm
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:54 No.112966
    >>112943
    Its like... you don't understand the current use of the word socialism.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:55 No.112969
    >>112954

    Great stuff. Happy to see more sensible free market-supporters here. Socialists have already taken over too many places on the internet and in real life.
    Let's hope they don't take this board.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:55 No.112971
    >>112943
    slave morality is strong with this one
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:56 No.112976
    The individual who does not support the state, has no right to protection by the state.

    If you refuse to pay for any one the herd immunities, be it for disease, poverty, war, injustice, then expect to be excluded from protection against all of these.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:56 No.112977
    >>112929
    >I know what anarcho-capitalism is and I think it would be a lot better than current society
    It takes a truly uneducated moron to believe that. Did you just start your first job and now realize you have to pay taxes?

    >It seems you, however, have been indoctrinated by government propaganda.
    Strawman ahoy!!!

    > It makes me sad to see so many misinformed people spreading the government's and bankers' lies.
    It's apparent you are the one who is misinformed, and paranoid to boot. Are you also a conspiracy theorist too? Think 9/11 was an inside job?
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:57 No.112982
    >>112954
    economic freedom begins with socialism
    only freedom you have now is choice between some producers
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)06:58 No.112986
    >>112976

    I agree wholeheartedly. Paying taxes should be voluntary, and those who don't pay it shouldn't get benefits from it.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:00 No.112997
    >>112976

    looks like someone doesn't know the difference between a right and privilege

    Seems like someone expects e/1 else to be just as dependent on certain strong individuals in a community as he is.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:00 No.112998
    >>112580

    I hate the politically correct version of modern socialism. I would not have much problems with right-wing, nationally oriented socialism.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:01 No.113009
    >>112976
    >>112976


    This is precisely the problem we have in the USA with socialism; it's not that our taxes are going towards road maitenance or police/fire services, it's that they going to people who don't contribute anything to the pot and but feed from the government trough all the same.

    The bottom 49% of taxpayers contribute little to nothing in ways of tax revenue, but are given a dole nonetheless.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:02 No.113012
    >>112982
    Just for shits and giggles, please describe the core planks of what you would see as a socialist utopia.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:02 No.113022
    >>112943

    >What happens when your chosen Socialist government officials tell you that you can't have a new laptop,

    what the fuck are you even talking about?? any govt can abuse their authority, socialist or otherwise.

    you seem to have equated "socialism" with "govt intrusion on my life". this connection does not exist within the original idea. socialism is your public library, socialism is the fire department, socialism is public schools. it is only the fearful conservative politician who makes the american people afraid of these wildly hypothetical socialist abuses.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:03 No.113026
    >>112986
    By that logic, you can't drive on any roads, income tax returns, no healthcare subsidies, no drugs or the regulations put in place to ensure they don't kill you, no school for your children unless you pay for all of it, no road signs, no stop lights, no EMTs if you get into a car wreck because MY tax dollars pay for that shit so that I and people who need them can use them. In short, you wouldn't be able to go anywhere or do anything in this country without using something paid for by those evil socialistic programs. GTFO of my country.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:03 No.113028
    >>112998
    eww hypocrisy much?

    >>112982 this >>112921
    Many of our reduced options has to do with regulations and quotas, yet we still have many more options than most socialized countries
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:03 No.113032
    >>112976
    >implying you can find a someone against a government which provides for the defense of nation and has a functional judicial system

    it's the other things they have no right doing. Law should protect our liberty not take it
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:04 No.113034
    Utopia is the Culture society from the Iain M. Banks novels.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:04 No.113036
    >>112986

    But do you agree that failure to pay for just one service opens a gap in the defenses, leading to the undermining of all services?

    Therefore, if you don't want to help pay for your neighbors immunisation jabs, you should be denied all services. And that robbing you is not an injustice the state need address.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:04 No.113040
    >>112982
    >implying that choosing between products is not enough

    What do you even want? You are free to start your own business and no big corporation is going to stop you. If you become successful they might want to buy you but no one forces you to sell.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:06 No.113055
    >>112997
    Not to be dependent on the respective secretaries/generals/commanders in chief invites anarchy.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:07 No.113062
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    >>113026

    no by that logic he can pick what he wants to pay for and what to get - rather than getting it as an uniform package, so

    he could have emts, some alternative form of education (home school it), road access - etc

    The great mistake you socalists make is that you think we need you. Almost everything the government does a private company can do better and cheaper and can respond more immediately to feedback.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:08 No.113063
    >>112580
    >Why american hates socialist?
    Is it a fact that american hates socialist?
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:08 No.113064
    >>113028
    Most of options are lost when we dedicate our lifes for economy growth.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:10 No.113076
    >>113062
    They very well can but whole point of their existance is profit which means they will leach as much as possible on any progress.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:10 No.113077
    >>113009

    It doesn't matter if your neighbors are in employment or not.
    If enough of them contract a disease - so will you. Regardless of whether you purchase a biological resistance, that resistance will in time be overcome.
    So you'd better cough up b4 U really start coughing up.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:12 No.113088
    >>113055

    and to be overly dependent invites the death of the mind/self... funny as this socialism is all to achieve a great liberation of social, mental, and economic life
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:12 No.113094
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    >>113077

    This is one of the most retarded retorts I've ever read.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:16 No.113126
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    >>113062

    The greatest mistake the casino capitalists make is thinking that picking and choosing by all as individuals makes for efficient supply of services. It does not. No more than getting to choose which voltage arrives at a particular house makes economic sense.

    How well has that bastion of casino capitalism, the US, been doing?
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:17 No.113129
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    >>113076
    what does it matter if they make some profit if the services they provide are higher quality and cheaper than if the government tried to do it?

    >>113077 fear tactics much? (pic related) Shame I can't move to a neighborhood where people bathe and don't cough on me, since I have to depend on the government for my housing options.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:17 No.113133
    >>113028

    Why hypocrisy? I consider socialism to be destined to fail, or at least lead to trouble unless it has strong nationalistic element. Under national socialism, there would be no "feel good" stepping around minorities (or white trash, for that matter) leeching off socialist benefits and undermining our superior culture. This turns socialism from a failure into a viable, even desirable system.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:17 No.113134
    >>113036
    But I won't subsidize his income
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:17 No.113135
    >>113062
    No, that is the most retarded thing I've ever had. If we had such a system EMT's would have to take time to verify that you fucking paid for them. Not to mention everyone would stop paying for the roads and still use them.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:18 No.113137
    >>113094

    Lost for your own retort?

    That's just the way I like you.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:18 No.113140
    >>113062
    You see you can't decide what your taxes go too. Politicians decide that. I don't want a third of my taxes going to a "defense" budget that is actively killing and exploiting the resources of people half way across the globe, but I have no say in that.

    >The great mistake you socalists make is that you think we need you.
    Oh yes you fucking do. We're intelligent enough to look around and notice how hard we're getting fucked in the ass and try to fix it. Labor unions, 8 hour work days, and the minimum wage being the most glaring examples.

    >Almost everything the government does a private company can do better and cheaper
    You're serious? You have to be shitting me. Private companies do it FOR PROFIT, dipshit. Publicly funded programs aren't done for profit. They're done for the benefit of all the members in that program, not just the people who run it.

    You're an idiot who has no clue what kind of political actions you're advocating. You are the average american and a reason I despise my fellow countrymen so much. You are arrogantly ignorant and don't give a fuck that you are. Your kind are the creationists of politics.

    Everyone isn't entitled to their opinion. People that are uninformed need to STFU and STFD when people who actually know their shit are talking.
    >> Ziforb the Hopeless Imbecile 10/29/11(Sat)07:21 No.113160
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    Fuck yeah.
    Democratic socialist right here.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:21 No.113166
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    >>113137

    >wtfamIreading
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:23 No.113177
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    > wild west
    > every man for himself
    > never grow out of that mentality

    Mix that with hardcore Christianity and you've got The Religious Right.

    U-S-A
    U-S-A
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:23 No.113178
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    >>113140
    >Minimum Wage
    >He thinks it helps the poor
    >mfw
    >> Ziforb the Hopeless Imbecile 10/29/11(Sat)07:23 No.113179
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    >>112649

    Ayup. See what I have to put up with?
    Oh well. Let's see some butthurt capitalist pigs.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:25 No.113190
    >>113178
    See the last line of what you were replying to.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:26 No.113195
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    >>113135
    well i was explaining what he was saying and if you really think that emts when making an ambulance run would stop upon arrival and pull out a big book of "has paid" people - you really have no imagination for how to improve things - I would be willing to be that if allowed someone could come up with an idea that we'd both like that would allow for people to choose whether or not they wanted to get emt insurance (because that is what the gov't is doing in this case).

    Also so if you don't have a car should u have to pay for road taxes? Doesn't make sense to me. You really think that we couldn't come up with a private road ownership system?
    >> Ziforb the Hopeless Imbecile 10/29/11(Sat)07:26 No.113198
    >>112680

    Tell me-in the case of DEMOCRATIC socialism-how is a MORE democratically focused state going to lead to an authoritarian state?
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:26 No.113199
    >>113190
    So have you actually looked up the effects of minimum wage laws or are you okay with "Well it makes me feel good so it must be beneficial"
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:28 No.113211
    Socialism is about people assuming the worst in me and determining whats best for me and what I have the right to possess.
    Fuck that.
    >> Ziforb the Hopeless Imbecile 10/29/11(Sat)07:29 No.113218
    >>112722

    SPOKEN LIEK A TRU 'MURICAN.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:29 No.113219
    Socialism:

    When A and B get together and decide to take
    money from C and give it to D.

    It usually fails when you run out of other peoples money.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:30 No.113229
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    >>113211

    In a nutshell
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:31 No.113233
    >>113199
    So have you actually looked up the effects of anarcho capitalism or are you okay with "Well it makes me feel good so it must be beneficial"?

    Minimum wage laws exist because it's been proven time and time again that businesses will fuck their employees as much as possible while demanding more and more production. That's pure capitalism and that's pure exploitation. As a sentient human being, I find it deplorable and so should you.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:32 No.113237
    >>113219
    Ayn Rand faggot detected. You do know that cunt was on government assistance, right? Hypocrisy was strong with her and it's strong with her supporters.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:33 No.113243
    >>113233

    (and, because the cost or production is lowered, the costs of basic goods are lowered as well)
    >> Ziforb the Hopeless Imbecile 10/29/11(Sat)07:34 No.113248
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    >>112726

    >mfw you don't even fucking TRY to defend yourself
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:34 No.113250
    >>113233
    >Don't like Minimum Wage Laws
    >MUST BE AN EVIL ANCAP MISES.ORG BROWSER

    Close, but Chicago School/Friedman is my calling card.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1HAbdUw7KE

    And you might want to pick this up also.
    http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=11659
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:34 No.113258
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    >>113233

    when that happens it is called slavery, a condition that depends on the enslaved inability to depart - luckily the free market doesn't require that you one and only one employer all your life
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:34 No.113260
    >>113243
    >Does not understand basic business practices at all.
    costanza.jpg
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:35 No.113264
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    After reading this I was disappointed.
    Socialism, has never been tried on a pre-socialist industrialized nation. Marx 's himself said that "Socialist revolution would work best in a highly technological, industrialized nation". The death tolls which >>112706 sits are in many ways bias.
    Because it includes the number of people killed on both sides of wars against socialism.
    Russia was a dirt poor land empire with extreme wealth in the hands of the nobility. it industrialized very well under communism, but its flaw was the ridiculous spending of government money on pointless shit and not focusing on the civilians providing the taxes back to government.
    As a model for industry, it should have implemented capitalist incentives by returning all profits to the workers, with constant auditing by government to prevent corruption or the misuse of money.
    In anyone at all has read the Grundriesse by Karl Marx's, he stands that there are many factors which could work very well under a communist or socialist government, but it would only work in an industrialized and highly skilled nation.
    You Americans sicken me, you don't even have real socialized health care, you have government required health insurance, acting as a middle man for an overpriced pharmaceuticals industry.

    More profit from less care retards. Or how 717 billion dollars can go to an overbloated military which serves as you right to act as world police.
    You could cut that in half, fully socialize healthcare, make a training incentized welfare system, increase NASA's budget and research budgets immensely and do so well.
    But if you are lied to all your life, you will believe it as truth ~ to roughly quote/refer to adolf hitler's words.

    >mfw i am a New Zealander and love paying 39% tax to go to hospital for free, with zero interest student loans and recieve free government money to study.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:36 No.113266
    >>113233
    You do know that some of the most ardent opponents of slavery in the 19th Century were Classical Liberals right?
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:36 No.113274
    >>113237


    Never read Ayn Rand. Never been on government assistance.

    Heard William F. Buckley say it 20+ years ago.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:37 No.113277
    >>113258
    >when that happens it is called slavery, a condition that depends on the enslaved inability to depart
    And what happens when all business adopt that strategy, as they are doing now, because it's profitable?
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:38 No.113283
    >>113237
    Whats hypocritical about taking back the money the government forcefully took from you most of your life?
    >> Ziforb the Hopeless Imbecile 10/29/11(Sat)07:38 No.113289
    >>112754

    0/10
    OUT. GET OUT. GET OUT NOW!
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:38 No.113291
    >>113277
    Slaves make poor workers. They have no *incentive* to work hard. It's the same issue Communist countries found during the Cold War. Why do you think the Yugo was a piece of shit or whenever an American visited they always wanted some damn Levi jeans?
    >> CDN_Idealist !!+fGWbh1Bhgf 10/29/11(Sat)07:39 No.113294
    Do you want the real answer? American culture.

    America was first populated by a group of religious fundamentalists who didn't like the Church in England. They were incredibly rigid, and even the slightest deviation formed a new splinter Church. That's why there are so many different types of Christian in America.

    But the one thing they all had in common was something called the Puritan or Protestant Work Ethic. It goes a little something like this:

    >God gives you gifts
    >people use their gifts to make money
    >if God loves you, you gets lots of gifts and therefore make a lot of money
    Therefore:
    >rich people are morally superior to the poor

    This is also where early Americans got their 'do it yourself' and 'create wealth' attitude.

    Even the American revolution was all about money. Only 1/3 of Americans wanted the revolution, and those people were mostly rich people who were being affected by the Stamp Tax. The rich controlled the printing press and exaggerated claims about the British. The entire revolution was about rich white guys gaining power.

    So you have a culture of people who have always been, and likely always will be, about money. Combine that with low social mobility and a history of being backwards on social issues (Canada, Britain and the rest of the Commonwealth had eliminated slavery in the early 1800s, and America still have black people in zoos until 1910) justified by racism, McCarthyism and a massive propaganda machine and you have a recipe for never into socialism.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:40 No.113303
    >>113294
    Woah now, this isn't your American History survey course and you don't need to impress us all with your knowledge of Howard Zinn
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:41 No.113305
    ITT: people who have never read any socialist authors start telling socialists what socialism is.

    Let me give you retards a hint. Worker's control of the means of production.
    >> CDN_Idealist !!+fGWbh1Bhgf 10/29/11(Sat)07:41 No.113310
    >>113303
    >>113303
    >haven't read Howard Zinn
    >answer the question
    >means I'm showing off

    K.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:42 No.113313
    >>113283
    Depending on how long you're on it, you will NEVER pay back more than you put into the program. Take everyone currently drawing social security for example. They never paid in that much yet draw from it until they die. Where you born in a public hospital? Did you go to a public school? You have cops, EMTs, and firefighters around, correct? Then STFU, you have taken more out of the system than you have ever or most likely will every pay in. Try to think about someone other than just yourself you little libertarian cunt. In fact, think about just yourself on this one to see how big of a massive hypocrite you are.
    >> Ziforb the Hopeless Imbecile 10/29/11(Sat)07:43 No.113317
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    >>112757

    Well gee mister, maybe, just maybe, there's a difference between a democratically oriented state (more democratic forms of socialism) and an authoritarian dictatorship (communism).
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:43 No.113319
    >>113313
    Ah the classic "Libertarians drive on roads so they are hypocrites" argument. That's about as stale as "You should move to Somalia, it's a libertarian paradise"
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:44 No.113324
    >>113305

    Workers are free to start cooperatives, they are free to buy stock in corporations.

    Many Wal-Mart managers and truck drivers retired millionaires from the stock they bought.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:45 No.113326
    >>113291
    >They have no *incentive* to work hard
    Sure there is. Your continued survival or means of making a living is a strong motivator. Your quality of life, no matter how shitty, is secondary to the first.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:45 No.113327
    >>113277

    well I guess we're all fucked because the market can't innovate anything new or come up with new better strategies for both the business model / population - the world is static and never changes... fuck.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:45 No.113328
    >>113305
    And my Roth IRA which is invested in a mutual fund which is comprised of hundreds of different stocks gives me a small portion of that means.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:46 No.113333
    >>113305

    Read as:

    "I have just read Karl Marx. I now know the only correct economic system in the world."
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:46 No.113334
    >>113326
    So what you're saying is the ideal is to have everyone work in order to survive regardless that this type of incentive will lower the quality of life for all participants but hey at least greed will be gone?
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:47 No.113340
    It's like i'm back at University!
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:48 No.113345
    >>113319
    But yet you stupid fuckers never seem to understand why the argument is used against you. It succinctly shows how much of a hypocritical selfish piece of shit you libertarians are and definitively proves you haven't thought your philosophy through. You only focused on what you can get out of it and nothing else.
    >> Ziforb the Hopeless Imbecile 10/29/11(Sat)07:48 No.113347
    >>112786

    So, you basically admit you're being an idiot, but still try to argue?
    I love my country to death.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:48 No.113348
    Latecomers: You want the distilled essence of this argument?

    It's this:-

    The pure capitalist believes the role of fair dice delivers social justice.

    The pure socialist believes the dice are merely unbiased and cannot deliver social justice, which requires something more.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:49 No.113349
    >>113326

    No there is not.

    Slaves have an incredibly poor work ethic, and on plantations in the Carribean/Brazil they would routinely sabotage their work stations.

    Survival had nothing to do with it.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:50 No.113360
    >>113345
    So you're saying I shouldn't drive?
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:51 No.113370
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    Americans need to read some fucking Żiżek
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:51 No.113371
    >>113370
    >Zizek
    oh here we go...
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:54 No.113388
    >>113348

    The Social Justice concept is one of my main bones of contention.

    To me it says "I was born, therefore I deserve
    work product of others."

    My philosophy is one based on merit.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:56 No.113405
    >>113360
    What I'm saying is everyone is required to give up a little bit of their freedom, like not being able to kill people that piss you off, and income, like taxes, in order to live in a society. That is the fee you must pay in order to live in a civilized society. This is universally true. If you do not wish to give up a little bit of your freedom or income in order to live in a civilized society, kindly GTFO and go live in Somalia.

    You either pay the fee or GTFO. Those are your options. Leeching off of the benefits while bitching about the fee, minor compared to the benefits, makes you a massive hypocrite and sound like a moron. Like I said, Libertarians are the creationists of politics.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)07:58 No.113415
    >>113405
    So what you're saying is that we should sit down and shut up rather than say "Isn't their a more efficient/better way?"
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)08:02 No.113437
    >>113415
    There is no better political system, that actually works, than an equal blend of both capitalism and socialism. It gives people a reason to aspire for more while making sure there is something to catch you if shit goes south, like you health. What you're advocating goes completely in the opposite direction of progress. You're forgetting that almost everyone is completely about getting more and more for themselves and fuck everyone else if they have to. It's why communism isn't possible and it's also why libertarianism isn't possible. You're forgetting the human greed factor.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)08:06 No.113449
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    >>113405
    yea.... 'merica's been there done that....
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)08:07 No.113457
    Anything up to Social Democracy is tolerable, once things get actually Socialist or Marxist-Leninist in particular, things start getting shitty

    Market Liberalism or Social Liberalism is just fine and I don't understand why middle class people want to part with it, unless they're jobless/homeless
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)08:08 No.113462
    >>113437

    no i think his logic actually depends on it
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)08:09 No.113467
    >>113388

    And to me Social Justice is being too broadly applied.

    Socialism, properly addressed, distinguishes things done for Social Justice and things done out of pragmatism. And there is much of the latter to be found in a welfare state, as statistics (unsullied by notions of justice) show.
    >>113126
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)08:09 No.113468
    >>113449
    lrn2readingcomprehension

    Since you're able to respond to my post, you are living in a society where this agreement is made also. EVERY single civilized society makes this agreement. America isn't special on this one.
    >> D/Generation !PsWaArQzRE 10/29/11(Sat)08:10 No.113470
    Because you have no memory of life during the Cold War.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)08:10 No.113473
    >>113437
    If someone can only get more for themselves by serving others then greed drives them to improve the lives of others. That's what a market is based on; voluntary trade that both parties expect to gain from. It's when you violate the market and allow people to get more for themselves without offering anything to others that capitalism breaks down.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)08:12 No.113482
    >>113473
    > It's when you violate the market and allow people to get more for themselves without offering anything to others that capitalism breaks down.
    So you're all for regulation then? Because that's exactly why regulations were introduced.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)08:12 No.113484
    >>113462

    greed is good, GREED is bad

    If it weren't for some people being a little
    greedy, it would definitely be a shit-tier society.
    >> Financial Services Guy !!irpohcY63Wp 10/29/11(Sat)08:16 No.113505
    >>113482
    >He thinks regulations today are to prevent that
    >OH NOE YOU HIRED TOO MANY WHITE PEOPLE, BETTER HIRE SOME DISABLES AND VISIBLE MINORITIES EVEN THOUGH THEY MIGHT NOT FIT YOUR JOB DESCRIPTION

    Yeah, fuck you.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)08:19 No.113519
    >>113505
    What is with all you stupid fuckers thinking exceptions break the rule? The rule changing breaks the rules, not exceptions. That's why they're called exceptions you stupid bastards.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)08:24 No.113547
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    >>113468
    learn history

    'Merica was largely created in a departure from the very ideology you are suggesting. Some compromises were made such as national taxes can be used to fund... defense... post offices, other simple enumerated crap from section 1 art8. of our constitution. Though it was of the utmost importance that personal liberties be preserved... not sacrificed (and still is). In that way 'Merica is one of about five or six unique societies throughout world history.

    There was never a belief or basis for us to have things like the FDA or DoE, etc. So no historically we have not made this same agreement in 'merica. We largely just do it anyways because we are told it is for our own good and better... lot of good that has done.

    So rather than trying to homogenize one of the unqiue societies in all of world history - y don't you just gtfo and go to europe of one of many, many socialized countries - you have so many choices. You can go do your socialized thing and we can keep being right over here - it is win win or well lose win but clearly not a big deal to you.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)09:04 No.113768
    this thread has been saged
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)09:04 No.113771
    >hurr social justice

    Grow the fuck up leftists.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)09:18 No.113883
    >>112768
    for the thousandst time in this context: private property only means property of the means of production...nothing more.
    You can still own everything else, a house, 12cars, 35TVs all the luxury you cann afford.
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)09:20 No.113905
    I'll tell you the real reason: American's have been socialized to associate socialism with the state capitalism of China and the Soviet Union. If socialism was implemented in the US, you still have your market economies, the only difference is that the budget will be prioritized for social programs and needs for the common people instead of the wealthy and key industries will be nationalized.

    The irony is that all countries have some form of socialism either weak or strong with a market economy.

    In short, it's political ignorance and fear have some Americans to hate socialism.

    To learn more, Google "McCarthyism".

    >captcha: described, ccurror
    >> Anonymous 10/29/11(Sat)09:22 No.113914
    >>112768
    Here's the real question I should be asking: Where did you get your definition of Socialism from?



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