>Reinforces separation of church and state
>Theocracy
wut

RELIGIOUS FREEDOM MEANS LAWS NO LONGER APPLY TO RELIGION! YAY AMERICA! TIME FOR A NEW INQUISITION!

The government has no business telling churches who to appoint. It's the right call

>>1086360
>Reinforces separation of church and state
Don't be stupid. Saying a law that applies to everyone applies to a church is not church and state intermingling anymore than arresting a priest who murdered someone is.

>>1086360
>religions slowly gaining more and more power to do what they want
>soon enough they will remove that separation which they already claim doesn't exist

>government should not be able to endorse religion at all! not even a christmas tree
>government should be able to tell religions what to do

you can only have it one way

>>1086386

>Implying making religions follow the same laws as everybody else is anything close to endorsing a religion.

no.

>>1086386
Another idiot. So churches should be allowed to do anything they want?

Brb, setting up a "Church of Nuke the White House", get ready to defend me when they try and arrest me.

>>1086380
separation works both ways shithead. The church doesn't tell the government what to do and the government doesn't tell the church what to do.

>>1086380
Those laws work though the ever-expanding scope of interstate commerce. Unless church bake sales are national affairs, this was a good call.

>>1086409
"Separation" does not mean "Total exemption from every law" you fuckwit.

>>1086409

That's not what it means. What it means is that there can't be a Church Of America. Unlike in England where the Church of England is very real.

>>1086398
Churches can't murder people but they do have the right to run themselves. If they feel a gay man or someone who had an abortion is inappropriate to run thing the government has no business telling them otherwise

>>1086428

But if Walmart wants to fire someone for being gay, it's wrong?

>>1086398
>unanimous decision
>hurr durr slippery slope logical fallacy

Seriously dude, this was a Lutheran church that got to decide what it wanted to do without Governmental interference.

How is that wrong?

>>1086420
Not every law. Just from the government telling you who to appoint as a minister or whatever.

Stop grasping at straws and pulling out your slipper slope bullshit

>>1086428
When the government enforces a law, it should be for everybody, not everybody except churches.
You are the one who is asking for special treatment here, and you shouldn't get it. THAT would be the violation of the first amendment.

>>1086397
implying anti-discrimination shit is law or constitutional?

>>1086342

So now the Jews can say that only ethnic Jews can be Rabbis or whatever. And the Blacks can say that only Blacks can preach at their churches.

I do not see what is wrong with this at all and why anyone would suggest that it means we're moving close to a theocracy unless they are a fucking idiot

>>1086439
Wal-mart doesn't base its existence partially on the belief that homosexuality is immoral

>>1086445
If you care about equality, why are you supporting laws which provide special privileges to non-whites or women?

>>1086441

Did you read the article? It was about a teacher who was hired by a christian school, not a minister.

>>1086462

But let's assume hypothetically they did. Is then then okay for them to fire a gay man for being gay?

>>1086466
The original post said churches. That's what I assumed the article would say.

>>1086467
no

That has always been how civil rights have always been interpreted.

How do you think the LDS Church got away with excluding hlack people until the 80s?

First Citizens united ruling now this. I sear this country is going straight down the shitter.

>>1086477

So let's say a church fires a teacher at one of their private schools for being gay. Is that okay?

>>1086485

God I hate the hlacks.

>>1086493
no

>>1086493
Yes. It's his job to preach the evils of homosexuality.

>>1086493
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason them self into.

>>1086504

Great, so then we both agree this decision was terrible.

>>1086493
should be.

Why do liberals want to infringe on the rights of business owners or churches or whatever to do as they please?

>>1086439
Yes.

>>1086467
Yes. Government needs to fuck off on this. If I'm a business owner I should be allowed to whoever the fuck I want for whatever reason I feel like

>>1086517

and with this post, all the lessons america learned in the 1960s were lost forever

>>1086527

lol selling pot isnt a business guy

>this thread

ITT: Leftists have no idea what separation of church and state mean.

>>1086552
What lessons?

>>1086517
Why do business owners want to infringe on the rights of their employees?

>>1086552
what do you mean lessons? That niggers should be free to attack us and riot whenever they want?

That they should all be able to live on government jobs or welfare/prison?

You have to be a mental retard to seriously think the 60's was a time of "progress".

>>1086565
What rights? The employer is the one paying the employee to work. They have no obligation to give them anything

>>1086559
>Ron Paul is racist
>Get's his black friend of 20 years who is an NAACP leader to vouch he isn't

>>1086579

REINSTATE SLAVERY

>The government has no business telling churches who to appoint. It's the right call

This

And if OP thinks that churches "discriminating" (boohoo) is "theocracy," he just went full retard.

>>1086565
You don't have a right to be employed.
Faggot.

>>1086574

Oh you

>>1086582
No. You have the right to choose who to work for and when to quit. It's just once you're in their employ you do whatever the fuck they tell you.

Nice try

>>1086580
>It's impossible for people to be hired to say things they don't mean
>dictionary.reference.com/browse/actor

>>1086559

>Implying "racism" is the only objection anyone could possibly have to a "law" that institutes thought control against businesses

>>1086599
>NAACP leader
>actor

wut?

>>1086574

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you your typical Ron Paul supporter!

>>1086613
>People who have a job can't be paid to act
Oh you.

>>1086599
>guy who's job is to destroy racism in America defends a racist
>tin-foil conspiracytards believe the guy was paid to do so

>Liberals baww about seperation of church and state
>Liberals baww when the connection is loosened, since it inconveniences their agenda

>>1086380
>arresting a priest who murdered someone
funny thing about that

murder isn't illegal as far as the federal government is concerned

>>1086629
>Prominent black activist says Ron Paul isn't racist
>HE MUST BE PAID OFF

typical liberal.

Liberal logic

If priests are allowed to molest all the little boys they want and get away with it, I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to fire all the black teachers for no reason as well.

>>1086655
> nothing wrong with Islamic theocracies

Liberals say that? I call bullshit.

>churches have the right to hire whoever they please
>they can now hire based on qualification alone and do not have to worry about meeting racial quotas
>THEOCRACY! TYRANNY!

>>1086676
They deny Sharia law is part of the religion.

>>1086599
Make sure your tin foil hat is adjusted correctly.

>>1086696

Suuurrrrre they do. 0/10

>>1086725
Explain all of Europe.

>>1086692
>Tax exempt
>Racial discrimination
>Religious institution
Pick one, tool. Oh and, most religious institutions are racist in some way, you can still pick just one.

>>1086846
>most religious institutions are racist
Nice source. QQ more, atheist scum.

>>1086877
Oh...are you butt devastated that its true? Most successful religions take advantage of division and infighting to sucker idiots into life devotion to their side. What easier way to divide someone than through physical traits? The rest is just icing.

>>1086914
>it's true because I say it is!
Atheism general.

>>1086914

0/10
You'll need some evidence to back up your strawman, troll. Otherwise, GTFO

>>1086942
>it's true because I say it is!
The irony is is its actually now theism general. I don't think a tripfag can shoot itself in the foot harder.

>>1086963
>Brony

Oh...this thread is cancer. I'll be going now, kids.

>>1086963
Oh and...
>Strawman
Might want to look up what it is before using it. You look like a tool, tool.
>Still cant believe you misapplied strawman

>2012
>opposing freedom of association

Fuck off anti-White. People have the right to associate with whomever they want.

If you don't like it you can fuck off.

Everybody says there is this RACE problem. Everybody says this RACE problem will be solved when the third world pours into EVERY white country and ONLY into white countries.

The Netherlands and Belgium are just as crowded as Japan or Taiwan, but nobody says Japan or Taiwan will solve this RACE problem by bringing in millions of third worlders and quote assimilating unquote with them.

Everybody says the final solution to this RACE problem is for EVERY white country and ONLY white countries to “assimilate,” i.e., intermarry, with all those non-whites.

What if I said there was this RACE problem and this RACE problem would be solved only if hundreds of millions of non-blacks were brought into EVERY black country and ONLY into black countries?

How long would it take anyone to realize I’m not talking about a RACE problem. I am talking about the final solution to the BLACK problem?

And how long would it take any sane black man to notice this and what kind of psycho black man wouldn’t object to this?

But if I tell that obvious truth about the ongoing program of genocide against my race, the white race, Liberals and respectable conservatives agree that I am a naziwhowantstokillsixmillionjews.

They say they are anti-racist. What they are is anti-white.

Anti-racist is a code word for anti-white.

>>1086942
> It's true because a 2000 year-old book says it.

Theism general.

>>1087013

>Implying that painting the average church as "racist" and then building an argument off that isn't completely straw

I go to an all-white, evangelical baptist church. But when a single black mother came in need of help, we helped her and shared the gospel with her. I shouldn't even have to argue this, you atheistfags are so ridiculous...

>>1086942

Why would he state his position unless he thought it was true?

It's not like he's claiming that he isn't the one who holds that position, it's the ghost that never lies who first told him, so everybody should believe it.

>>1087034
>>1086980
Who said anything at all about theism? The issue we're discussing is whether or not churches have the right to hire whoever they want. And I guess any time anyone defends Christianity, that means they must be Christian, right? Nice logic, atheist.

>>1087068

He wasn't backing his position with a rational argument. He was trolling, got pwned by a brony, and ragequit the thread.

Reverse racism doesn't exist because their is no institution to support it.

>>1087066
These "athiests" are really anti-christian bigots.

>>1087068
>invisible ghost that never lies
Misrepresentation and oversimplification of x argument =/= refutation of x argument.

Churches should be allowed to admit whoever they want.

They want to ban the blacks or the gays? None of my business. If the congregation and the clergy feel like they shouldn't let certain people in, it's their prerogative.

Most religious people are not so bigoted, thankfully.

>>1087080
Churches have no right to hire whoever they want because they are tax exempt. Are you racist? Then pay your taxes. Are you religious? Pay your taxes. Whats going on right now? Neither. Nice job pissing all over Jefferson and Payne.

>>1087093

I never said the ghost was invisible. Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it's invisible.

ISLAM IS COMING. ISLAM IS COMING.

>>1086877
I would say that most Western religious institutions HAVE BEEN racist, but currently aren't. Many religions in the poorer countries, however, continue to practice bigotry and racism. The Mormon Church had a policy of discriminating against blacks until 1978, Christianity was used to justify slavery, the Black Codes, and general Reconstruction-era violence against blacks, Hindus continue to discriminate against Dalits and Muslims, and we should not forget radical Islam, the most violent and racist religion of modern times.

Religions in first world countries don't openly practice bigotry, but they used to, and are still used to justify hatred and racism in third world countries.

Why should religions be tax exempt?

>>1087093
>>1087106 here again

Besides, I was hardly making a refutation. I was just pointing out the difference between stating your own position, and claiming you only hold a position because it's the absolute truth given to you by someone else.

>>1087127

>Nothing exists.

>>1087098
There are many institutions that are tax exempt. Churches are charitable organizations. I know your internet atheist friends tell you otherwise, but step into reality for a little bit and you'll see that a church is actually a very helpful part of a community. While not particularly religious, me and my family have been helped countless times by churches in our lives.

>>1087098

>2012
>Thinks established religion is the same thing as tax exemption for churches
>mfw

>>1087137
name one time

Jesus was a waste of ink. Who cares anyway?? Trade one " prophet" for the next, they all were useless

>>1087137
I've been helped by government programs more than church programs.

"Anti-racist" (anti-white) lexicon defined....

RACIST = White person

HATE GROUP = White group

HATE SITE = White site

COLONIALISM (Evil) = White man moving to non-White country

MULTICULTURALISM, DIVERSITY (Good) = Non-White person moves to White country, oppose it and you are a naziwhowantstokillsixmillionjews.

Who do they think they are kidding? Anti-racist is a code word for anti-white.

>>1087149
We're poor, and the church actually donated food to us. We're not the only ones. They did this for many people.

>>1087161

Where did they get the food? Did they grow it for you?

>MFW butthurt idiots are hating Jesus

>>1087149

>Implying churches aren't charitable, and it's all a huge conspiracy

>>1087173
I'm sure they bought it. Why don't we skip the pointless questioning so I can get right to hearing your argument? Assuming you have one, of course.

>>1087158
>implying anyone other than butthurt Nazifags uses the term "multiculturalism"

>Most studies have shown that religious involvement and spirituality are associated with better health outcomes, including greater longevity, coping skills, and health-related quality of life (even during terminal illness) and less anxiety, depression, and suicide.
www.mayoclinicproceedings.com/content/76/12/1225.full.pdf

>People with no religious affiliation are at an elevated risk with people who are religiously affiliated.
>People with high levels of general religious involvement, organizational religious involvement, religious salience, and intrinsic religious motivation are atreduced risk for depressive symptoms and depressive disorders
>Longitudinal research is sparse, but suggests that some forms of religious involvement might exert a protective effect against the incidence and persistence of depressive symptoms or disorders.
www.ingentaconnect.com/content/aap/twr/1999/00000002/00000002/art00008

>The spiritual and religious group had less distress and less mistrust than the religious-only group (p < .05 for both).
>Moreover, individuals who perceive themselves to be both spiritual and religious may be at particularly low risk for morbidity and mortality based on their good psychological status and ongoing restorative activities.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12008795

>>1087187
They bought your groceries for you?

Hm. Usually they ask their parishoners to donate food and then give it to you. Then the church gets the credit.

Not to mention the child fucking. Ah, the child fucking.

So good to be in the church business. Doing nothing, gain everything.

Forrest Gumps of the world.

>>1087218
>Religious involvement was significantly associated with lower mortality (odds ratio = 1.29; 95% confidence interval: 1.20-1.39), indicating that people high in religious involvement were more likely to be alive at follow-up than people lower in religious involvement.
http://www.psy.miami.edu/faculty/mmccullough/Papers/rel_mort_meta.pdf

>Religious people are 25 percentage points more likely than secularists to donate money (91 percent to 66 percent) and 23 points more likely to volunteer time (67 percent to 44 percent).
http://www.hoover.org/publications/policy-review/article/6577

>An impression based on a vote-counting method of reviewing studies on religion and personality is that religiosity is associated only with low Psychoticism (or high Agreeableness and Conscientiousness), while unrelated to the other Eysenck's or Big Five factors. This meta-analytic review of studies on religion and the Five Factor Model revealed that, in addition to Agreeableness and Conscientiousness, religiosity (today?) is related to Extraversion. Interestingly, while Openness is negatively related to religious fundamentalism (weighted mean r=-0.14, P<0.01) and, to some extent, intrinsic-general religiosity (r=-0.06, P<0.01), it is positively related to measures of open or mature religiosity and spirituality (r=0.22, P<0.0001). The meta-analysis also indicated that extrinsic religiosity is followed by high Neuroticism, whereas open-mature religiosity and spirituality reflect Emotional Stability.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886900002336


WHY DO ATHEISTS HATE CHILDREN SO MUCH??

>>1087158

This

Every instrument of our culture has, for the past half century, called white racism the ultimate evil in the world. It's not. We need to wake up, and recognize that the civilization that the white man built is great, glorious, and a harbinger of freedom in the world. If we are to criticize our fathers for their evil deeds, we should also praise them for the good. Stop worrying about "racism." Think for yourself. Seek freedom.

>>1087179
>implying churches are being treated unfairly and need all the help they can get

Bend over.

>>1087218
Oh look it's xtian spammer again.

ITT: Strawmanning for Jesus

>>1087228
>Not to mention the child fucking.
More claims without evidence, I see. You just don't know what to do when people aren't as anti-Christian as you, do you?

>>1087252

I have the DNA evidence in my ass.

>>1087204
>Implying I am dumb enough to be guilt tripped into accepting my own genocide.
Strange how this "Multiculturalism" is being forced in EVERY white country.

No one says Korea needs to become more "multicultural".

No one says Japan, Kenya, Mexico, Israel, or Egypt should be flooded with massive foreign populations and blended out of existence to demonstrate how "moral" they are, or to "enrich" their sorely lacking cultures.

It's a program to eliminate my race, the white race from existence. it's genocide.

Those pushing it call themselves "anti-racist." What they are is anti-white.

Anti-racist is a code word for anti-white.

>>1087137
>my family and I

And yes, we know how lovely Christianity is in the US, but have you for one moment paused to think about the fact that US Evangelical Christians share a large part of the responsibility for the "Kill the Gays" bill now being considered by the Ugandan parliament? Have you ever considered that the Church that you so adore refuses to give condoms to Africans in order to quell the outbreak of AIDS? Their charitability always comes with strings attached.

In the future, perhaps you should be more considerate of an opponents position instead of peppering your arguments with character assaults; it isn't very endearing. Just a suggestion.

>>1087247

LOL

Almost all those countries are muslim or buddhist. Troll harder.

>>1087218
So, you are happy because you delude yourselves, and that means that atheism is bad?

What does race have to do with theocracy?

People have always had the right to deny others access to their property.

Just thought I'd point-out some fallacies in OP's thinking here. I don't really care about this debate.

>>1087218

i wouldn't say that it is religious involvement but a sense of belonging to a group of individuals. the human being is a social animal. we like to be in groups and socialize with other people.being in groups gives us a safety net or a support network. it makes you feel like you're not alone.

>>1087204
Anti-White detected.

>>1087242

This.

And before you atheists try to respond; they're allowed to rape children and torture homosexuals and oppress women and profit tax-free because they do stuff like this. They are still a net gain for society.

Education is unnecessary and only for liberal hippie jews.

Gawd made me special.

I am Gawd Tier.

>>1087274
HAPPINESS > KNOWLEDGE

SOMEDAY YOU'LL REALIZE THAT.

Christians r only happy within their own world.

Brianwashing, how duz it werk?

Now challenge the provision of the Civil rights act that makes businesses accept all races based on this decision.

>>1087287
You've never read Brave New World, have you?

>2012
>Not realizing that being spiritually healthy is very important to your happiness and overall well-being

ISHYGDDT

>>1087285

>you athiests
>YOU ATHIESTS

You mean black lesbian jews, rite?

>>1087204

>Implying taking over a civilized, industrialized country with immigration flooding is the same as settling mostly empty land sparsely populated by nomadic barbarian tribes

>>1087262
Christianity has been modernized and secularized pretty well in the West. We're civilized nations in the West, and as I'm sure you know, Africa is not. Blame Uganda, not Christianity.

>>1087306
HAPPINESS IS SOMETHING BIGGER THAN ME CONTROLLING ME

I lived in northern MN where it was 99% white and Christian.

It was so BORING.

>>1087297
You want to see brianwashing?

Take a look at what the religion of political correctness does.

>>1087319

>religion in the west is so good it's hardly religious at all

Agreed.

>>1087319
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uganda_Anti-Homosexuality_Bill
>The proposed legislation in Uganda has been noted by several news agencies to be inspired by American evangelical Christians.

Is this some of the evidence you have been looking for all this time? Could it possibly be??

>>1087337

How is this religion enforced?

By the Jew Universities?

>>1087306
Orgy porgy, Ford and fun!
Kiss the girls and make them one!
Boys at one with girls at peace,
Orgy porgy gives release!

Bring on the soma!

>>1087309
>2012
>Not being able to tell the difference between fairytales and reality

Africa is mother country.

>>1087309

Spirituality is code for hating yourself.

>>1087358
Mostly by universities, yes.

>>1087322
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xlkkw_nin-happiness-in-slavery_music

>>1087375
Do you accept the flouridated tap water?

>>1087319
>Christianity has been modernized and secularized pretty well in the West.

Thanks to atheist pressure against the Church's corruption.

>2012
>intervening in church policy

lol okay bro see how that goes for you

the Vatican't runs the world

>>1087356
Evidence for what? What is that evidence of? Evidence that religion can be used as a tool for evil? There is plenty of that. We even have people like this in the USA. The Westboro Baptist Church, for example.

You're either unable to discern between extremism and the mainstream or you willfully ignore the mainstream and cite the extremism because it helps prop up arguments which you know are bullshit. So much for "living in reality."

>>1087297

>>1087419
>>1087337

:/

brainwashed
robots
come up
with same
answer
that
is not
their
own

>>1087218
I would rather face the basic facts of my existence instead of being a pussy about it and deluding myself otherwise. You have proved absolutely nothing except that religious people are dependent on their delusional beliefs and that they are pussies who can't face reality, even if reality is sometimes depressing. Furthermore, even if non-religious people are depressed, they can be medicated with SSRI's or in more risky cases self-medicate with drugs and alcohol, and even if religion leads to lower depression, you cannot rationally claim that it is more effective towards eliminating depression than actual, physical increases of serotonin in the synaptic gap due to reuptake inhibitors.
Suck it, christard.

YOU ARE GOING TO DIE

Am I the only sane one in here?

>>1087461

>implying using the law to force churches to hire people who don't believe in the same religion is anything but retarded

>>1087416
My point is, the extremists are not the in minority, as you claim. They are in the minority IN WESTERN NATIONS. Billions of human beings must endure having their lives run by one form of religious extremism or another. See:
India's discrimination against Dalits, Chinese party-worship, Homophobia and racism brought on by religion in African countries, Afghanistan, Iran, etc.

Simply because the extremists are in the minority in a place where they don't hold power, it does not mean they are a minority.

And yes, for all intents and purposes, the people who have their lives run by the extremists qualify as extremists, as they are living their lives by the mandates of theocracies (even if they do not agree with their policies).

>>1087508
Well done for not reading the article, dipshit.

Since a majority of hospitals are church owned, and are subsidized by grants, we should already have universal health care.

>>1087524
Reading obscure conspiracy theorists?

>>1087508
You have gone full retard.

Lets all celebrate by fucking some little boys.

>>1087604
That's the spirit.

Doing nothing gets boring after awhile!

>>1087585
I hate people like you. Jesus Christ watch something other than American news. Theres all sorts of crazy shit out there. None of what he said had anything to do with conspiracy.

>>1087524
I don't see how that is at all relevant. Almost all of Africa is hundreds of years behind the rest of the world, which just brings me back to my original point.

I can't name an African country that isn't a corrupt hellhole, and given the nature of politics, people will lie as much as they need to in order to get elected and be granted power. That happens everywhere, even in the West, where we are civilized.

And let's be reasonable. We're not arguing about the functions and uses of religion in uncivilized nations like Uganda. Violent crime happens in a myriad of ways in Africa. Religion ("The Benevolent Message") servers as an easy way to dictate.

Just because there are nations where extremism is dominant does not mean it is the standard. It exists, and it's wrong, but it's not the standard.

>>1087629

Stop bombing me you jihadist on common sense.

>>1087416
>>1087633

>religions are human organisations like any other, subject to corruption or exploitation, and shouldn't be afforded a special immunity from criticism

Agreed.

I believe homosexuality is a religion.

>>1087686

They certainly spend a lot of time on their knees.

Fuck I read it in his voice

I believe in God. Love reading the atheist boy tears in this thread, it's awesome!

>>1087633
Well, I'm sorry, I thought we were debating whether or not religion is inherently bigoted and rascist. If you are simply going to discount nearly all of human history and modern day theocracies as impertinent to that discussion, fine. I'll simply argue that religion is inherently racist and bigoted in 1st world countries.

Why is Africa hundreds of year behind the rest of the world? I really hope you aren't going to tell me it's "CAUSE A DOSE DAMN DIRTY NIGGERS AND THEIR IQ'S," because it isn't. I know I'm going to take a lot of flak for saying this on /pol/ but there. I said it. Deal with it.

Anyways, Africa's underdevelopment has a number of root causes. Among these are:
A) Colonization; when the French and English colonized Africa, they destroyed centuries old cultural borders, thereby creating more internal strife and conflict
B) The Slave Trade: Not simply the Atlantic slave trade, which had devastating effects on population, but also the Muslim slave trade. The Muslim slave-traders perpetuated conflict between African kingdoms by creating an economic incentive to destroy and enslave other tribes. These tribes would then be sold to the slave traders, and sold off to Europe or other African tribes.

What justification did the "developed" nations of this time period give for their actions? They claimed to be civilizing and "Christianizing" the dirty natives.

Come at me racists, etc.

>>1087831
beliefs are always false

i never met a religious person who admits their beliefs r magical(made up)

thus, religion=lies and liars. always. every time.

this leads to killing. jihads. crusades.

insanity.

that's you.

im fine. common sense keeps me centered.

>>1087860
>A) Colonization; when the French and English colonized Africa, they destroyed centuries old cultural borders, thereby creating more internal strife and conflict

Nothing to do with the Zulus causing Mfecane wherever they went then. At least the Europeans brought infrastructure when they conquered you.

>>1087860
Why are you assuming I'm a racist now? I don't recall every saying anything that would lead to that conclusion. Are you going to call me a redneck next? Gosh, I love learning about myself on 4chan.

It doesn't matter why Africa is poor and uncivilized. Aside from a small handful of civilizations (the only ones that cross my mind being Egypt and Nubia), Africa is and has always been a terrible place to live. The important thing is that it is uncivilized. And since it needs to be spelled out, I'll say this: I don't support every single action taken by religious institutions. In this thread, I simply defended their right to hire whoever they wanted and stated that the church was a charitable organization. This is fact. I'm not going to debate this. It's not a conspiracy, it's not a lie or a cover-up, it's just fact.

Now, we could debate night and day about the cause of Africa's poverty, but that's neither here nor there, so let's try to stick to the discussion.

The Christianity I defend is the Christianity I grew up with in the USA. I don't really give a damn about what it was a thousand years ago, because that was then, this is now. I don't consider it a valid argument to bring up such age-old actions and events as a statement or representation of a group or organization as it is today. It's piss-poor logic, and I think you know that.

>>1087896
>common sense keeps me centered.

Define common sense.

>>1088092

Common sense is the ability to be reasonable on your own without having magical ideas handed down to you.

>>1088113
Define reasonable.

>>1088132
thinking, dealing with reality-present environmental circumstances. coming up with solutions that solve a problem.

>>1088085
I didn't mean my statement to come across as calling you a racist, I was simply preemptively responding to the inevitable comments I was going to get about blacks being inferior to whites, and things of that nature.

If we are strictly talking about "the kind of Christianity you grew up with", which I am assuming to be liberal Christianity, then I can only ask these two things:
1) Why did the instances of child molestation at the hands of the Catholic Church occur in mostly European and North American nations?
Citation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_sex_abuse_cases_by_country
2) How do you justify the Church's discrimination against gays, in light of the fact that it is based off a Biblical passage just as antiquated as those used to justify slavery during the Civil War?
Citation:
Leviticus 18:22
Genesis 9:20–27
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_Ham

>>1088209
>1) Why did the instances of child molestation at the hands of the Catholic Church occur in mostly European and North American nations?

Because a) It's only the west with a slightly less corrupt judicial system
b) it was jews and other liars suing for monetary gain.

>How do you justify the Church's discrimination against gays

The bible explicitly states that gays should be killed.
Further they are just fucking disgusting anyways and obviously must be oppressed for the preservation of any society.

Christians are telling me that they don't really follow the old testament, even though the bible is still published with it in it, and that the new testament is the only valid scriptural text. Except for that one passage in Leviticus that they LOVE.

>implying Churchs haven't been discriminating openly for years.

>>1088168
>coming up with solutions

Like the Final Solution? Eugenics? Genocide? Cmon, you have no moral code except the religious derived one that you still attempt to play off as logic and reasoning.

>remove restrictions on working in religious institutions
>turn into 3rd-world jesus sweatshops

quite frankly, it's your own damn fault for working such pathetic jobs

>>1088209
>I didn't mean my statement to come across as calling you a racist, I was simply preemptively responding to the inevitable comments I was going to get about blacks being inferior to whites, and things of that nature.
Oh, okay, sorry then. I completely understand that considering the board we're on.

For your first question, I don't know why. But what I can tell you is that none of my Catholic family members, relatives and friends support that cover-up. I don't think the blame for this needs to be put on Christianity, though. These actions are the actions of people. Though, oddly enough, I think the Bible is pretty silent on pedophilia.

As for your second question, the Bible quite clearly states that homosexuality is an abomination. That hasn't changed. What has changed is our way of dealing with it. We don't stone or burn them anymore, but if the Bible says homosexuality is a sin, then to the church it shall be so.

>>1088287

solutions like getting food, clothing, shelter, etc.

not world domination

if i had a messiah complex, i would join are create a religion for sher

>>1088287

>implying the final solution wasn't the logical endpoint of Christian antisemitism and the teachings of Martin Luther

I think we, in the developed, western world, have gone a bit beyond the point where our ethics and morality could be said to have derived from religion.

Who cares? Churches are private establishments. They should be allowed to discriminate against individuals for whatever reason, as long as they pay taxes. Thus, as part of this ruling, congress needs to convene and impose a fair tax against the collection plate.

>>1088392
religion should be a personal as sex

nobody wants to hear about it

>>1088345
Here we are, again. I cannot criticize the workings of the Church in 3rd world countries because people pervert the ideas. The Church cannot be criticized for its past because people perverted its teachings. The Church cannot be criticized in 1st world countries because people pervert its teachings.

When, in your opinion, is it fair to criticize the Church? Never? It seems to me that the common denominator in all situations of this sort is either:
A) Religion or
B) people

In response to that common argument of the religious, the one that states that: "People corrupt any idea; we would have war and conflict and strife even without religion." I would respond:

Have we ever tried living without religion? This is one of the first times in history that you can freely question a religious establishment without fear of authoritarian or popular reprisal; mabye, if we took this opportunity to at least try and live without religion, we would be surprised at what we could accomplish.

>>1088603
Criticizing the church is what you're doing right now. Criticize it all you like, but remember that the church is comprised of people and people are prone to being human.

I never defended the church as we're discussing it now. I defended Christianity and the church as it functions today (and stated this quite clearly) and stated it was a charitable organization.

What you're doing is taking the actions of a small, small minority of followers of a religion and placing the burden on all religion. Criticizing the church for poor decisions and blaming the religion for them is simply invalid.

And, again, you're either misrepresenting or willfully ignoring my actual arguments. I never said not to criticize the church (I've criticized the actions of the church in this very discussion), I just said that religion which is a fundamentally benevolent institution is maintained and perpetuated by humans, and we humans are fundamentally flawed by nature. But before you twist my words on me again: I don't think all aspects of religion are good. I think the good far outweighs the bad, but I recognize that there is bad.

But to say "Look what this religion made these people do" is absurd.

As for this...
>Have we ever tried living without religion?
We did live without religion for a while. Well, maybe not us, but a pretty big part of the world did. Soviet Russia wasn't a very happy place.

And just so you don't try to make it look like I'm saying atheism caused these problems, I'll address the argument before you make it. People are people. It doesn't matter what governing system of values we use. We have war because people can be (and often are) very selfish. As long as there are two thinking individual humans on this planet, there will be conflict. It's just nature. It wasn't the fault of atheism in the USSR, and it wasn't the fault of Christianity in Europe.

>>1088854
Why can't churches own their shit.

"holier than thou"

They don't think they're human.

They think they're superhuman or supernatural.

This is a problem.

We are going to have to "correct" the problem.