Not Marxism, if that's what you mean.

>>734204
What, Marxism is great! I have no obligation to work but I am entitled to free sustenance. What a great way to fuel my neckbeard lifestyle.

Marxism Leninism is the key to the future! We must eradicate the class enemy to be free people!

>>734231

You have a huge obligation to work. If you don't work and thusly contribute to the resource acquisition and distribution of the state; and you can in fact work then you don't garner access to the state's resources. Have fun starving you lazy shit.

Trotskyism

Actually, Marx's critique of capitalism seems spot on and should be read a lot more.

His economic theory sucked ass though.

I never got the difference between primitive communism and the communism that's supposed to come after the socialist transition from capitalism.

>>734292

It follows from the liberal tradition of totalitarianism. It's not merely enough to have communism; it's must be all-pervasive or the illusion falls apart.

Ironically, Orwell pretty much described the modern communist states in his most read stories.

YES OP I AGREE

>>734185

>>734438
Ironically, you have no idea what you are talking about

Yes, American Comrades, Dear Leader Kim Jong Il and we, his loyal subjects, both agree that communism is an absolute necessity! LOOK HOW HAPPY IT HAS MADE THE WONDERFUL, DEMOCRATIC, RESOURCE-PLENTIFUL PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF KOREA AND ITS JOYFUL CITIZENS!!!

If communism wasn't "evil" and people thought in terms of humanity as a whole, then i think more people would be more supportive...

>>734438

I don't think you know what irony means.

>>734485

I see. Falling back on your great oratory skills? I'm impressed.

>>734185
why?

>>734491

Northkoreafag detected

>>734491
1.) not a true communist sate

2.) world embargo, lol

So long as capitalist imperialism chokes Socialism in its tracks Communism will never be attained.

Communists don't vote
It is a totalitarian regime.
Want to be more miserable?
Vote communist.

>>734514
I rather have Orwell talk for me

"I have seen wonderful things and at last really believe in Socialism, which I never did before"

>>734506

Well I admit Alanis got me a little confused on the concept, but a vocabularyfag rates just above a grammarfag on my enema bag.

Especially if that is your entire point.

>>734520

The Great Leader Kim Il-Sung and Dear Leader Kim Jong-Il are both an inspiration to us all, not capitalist faggots. They are both kind, loving and super-human, they can SHOOT LASERS FROM THEIR EYES! I SAW THEM DO IT! They can vanquish capitalism and bring the love of Juche to America!

>>734185

Communism only works if people are perfect and willing and able to work as the theory desires them to. People aren't perfect, and in many cases are NOT willing or able to work as required of them, which is why it falls apart.

>>734556

Irony- an outcome of events contrary to what was, or might have been, expected.

Obviously reading comprehension is your strong point too.

I'm not in support of full on communism.

But, I do think we need to move a bit closer towards Anarcho-Syndicalism

>>734557

I wasn't making a point, but too many assholes wave around Irony without knowing its meaning. This shows you are either 13 or attended an American school.

>>734545
>>734491

Don't mind me, just sitting here living in the land of plenty. But I tell you, good friend, things were not always so easy. As a child I was poor and sick, my country was a small, destitute state, probably one of the poorest in the world. But my friends and I, and the rest of the country, we all worked hard so we may make a better future. I must make sure I continue to work hard so I may not lose the privileged position I have earned after years of toil.

Marxism Leninism gets shit done. Maoism, a revisionist spinoff, also gets shit done. The world as a whole needs communism for us all to reach our true potentials instead of wasting our lives making profit for hundreds of parasites.

>>734587
I cannot understand a premise that only follows inside your head, doesn't matter how many times I read it. Basically you are saying apples, then oranges, therefore bananas.

>>734603

Well, no. It means I've read Orwell, understand he was a socialist at heart, but realize his stories more aptly describe places like North Korea.

Hence irony.

But thank you very much for you extreme display of intelligence, and now fuck off.

>>734627
Fuck, can't argue with that

>>734696

You should listen to the stories about the Korean War, and how the communist endeared themselves to the population while making a great liberal utopia.

And the seething violence one has towards it after being exposed. Funny that.

>>734696
it's not an argument. SK benefited greatly from US geopolitics, namely Marshall Plan while NK was an autharchy

>>734741
not really

>>734752
US cut off all aid except military aid to South Korea in the late 1950s. Marshall plan was Europe. Japan was firmly being held down and raped.

>>734752
SK was an autocracy too.

>>734185
America needs partial socialism. For a little bit.

>>734780

Shhhh.

To have two countries develop side by side- one becoming the 15th largest economy in the world, the other having an entire generation mentally retarded due to malnutrition- loses the liberal appeal for communism.

All it really shows is most liberals are autocrats at heart.

>>734804

Yes, but it was capitalist. Showing that even when there is a lack of political freedom, greater economic freedom will trump central planning.

gg communist dicksuckers

>>734875
If capitalism doesn't ensure greater personal freedom, there is no point in it.

>>734804

Yeah, but that was mostly through imperial influences.

Luckily, they got the basics of the economy right, and rioted for change.

America doesn't need a vanguard party turning into a bureaucratic, Soviet-style elite. But I could certainly go for shooting the rich and the priests, taking their stuff, and running the economy on egalitarian lines.

>>734889
What empire? Was there some empire poking around in 1975 making them jail dissidents?

>>734891
Stalin and his method of frequent party purges prevents the vanguard party from stagnating into a brezhnevite established elite.

>>734884

I think it did ensure greater personal freedom. After all, the South Korean military dictatorship gradually crumbled and turned into the democracy we see today.

>>734901

Well, I'm not going to do your research for you, but you might look at influences for the Tiananmen Square protests and come back when you have something thoughtful to add.

>>734925
By that logic, the entire Warsaw pact led to more freedom.

>>734941
Once communism fell, yes.

>>734930
1989 influences the events of 1975? Interesting. I'm glad you're not "doing my research" for me, because the result would be retarded.

WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH.

>>734941

That only occurred after the Soviet Union began to relax its control on everything. Without totalitarianism, communism fell apart. In South Korea, the military regime was doomed from the start, since once people have obtained economic freedom, they tend to become wealthier and agitate for greater political freedom. Capitalism and authoritarianism are difficult to maintain in the same system, and one will inevitably triumph over the other.

ITT: Poorfags who become communists because they can't get a job

>>734952

Well no, events in 1980 influencing events in 1989.

It's obvious you have studied the history and politics of the region and speak knowledgeably on the issues.

Now run along.

>>734910
Indeed. The funny thing is, Stalin didn't even kill as many people as your average american spouts. The 'Ukranian Holocaust'? Lies based on Nazi evidence.

Gulags and work camps? Much less than the amount touted by western 'scholars' who based their research on hearsay.

The USSR in Stalin's time had less prisoners per capita than the USA does today. GG, America.

http://www.northstarcompass.org/nsc9912/lies.htm
Very enlightening.

>>735023
>>He actually believes this.

If any of you people actually picked up a book and read up on this shit you would know that communism is a dumb fucking idea.

>>735023
>>The USSR in Stalin's time had less prisoners per capita than the USA does today.

>>Because they were dead or doing slave labor in GULags or other camps.

>>735053
Including the gulags, dumbass. The data in my link is from official Soviet records. Where are your statistics from?

>>735079
>official soviet records
>trustworthy

AHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>735048

Better.

Have people live through it.

And yet so many liberals spout off on the benefits from the comfort of a capitalist economy, and get all butthurt when their ideas are met by folks who actually went through it, and wonder why so many people view them as idiotic retards.

>>735094
I suppose I'll take William 'Rupert Murdoch' Hearst's word over the USSR's!

>>735104
>Implying anyone who lived during Stalin or Mao and wasn't a dumbshit counterrevolutionary didn't have a good time

>>735135

Tripfagging retards at that.

I wonder how many votes the US CP gets

>>734780
US policy was basically opening their legs and shout TAKE ME to SK newborn industry. It still is.


>>734862
>To have two countries develop side by side- one becoming the 15th largest economy in the world, the other having an entire generation mentally retarded due to malnutrition- loses the liberal appeal for communism.
Yes if you ignore all those other countries ruled by puppet presidents backed by US who are now developed countries, what is their position in global economy rankings now, there's ..... and .....

>All it really shows is most liberals are autocrats at heart.
All it shows is that you are terribly ignorant and prejudiced

lol @ at the retarded, ignorant, illiterate, chauvinist fucktards in this thread who think "communism" and "liberalism" are interchangeable words.

Why, yes, I don't know anything about anything and am proud of it, so here's my opinion:

Capitalism is so great, guys!

>>735223

>Mixes up the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence
>Forgets that "All men are created equal" is in the latter document

soviet russia was so fucking twisted it spit out ayn rand.

do you really want that HERE??????

>>734862
>implying North Korea isn't a revisionist piece of shit

>>735223

Much better than Communism.

Capitalism is inherently democratic and A Good Thing, for example, let us look at wonderful examples of capitalist democracy such as the British Raj, Pinochet, May Day Massacres in the US, and the Vietnam War.

I FUCKING LOVE CAPITALISM

>>735253
Yes, I suppose it is much better if you belong to the hyper-priviledged minority of people who live in the First World and sustain themselves and their wasteful, insane lifestyles on the genocide and rape of millions of people. You fucking subhuman.

>>735135
Who's this "William Hearst" guy?

I'm basing all of this on records from people that lived through that BS.

if you don't thinnk purges existed, look at what happened to russia in june of 1940

Capitalism and its most developed form, Imperialism, along with Globalization, have killed more people than Communism (if such a thing has ever happened) has.

>>735271
Like you?

Oh but communism KILLED PEOPLE. they, like, actually went out, and murdered people. Oh My Fweaking God. I'm a fucking faggot who thinks that voting can change a god damn thing.

>>735284
>>[Citation needed]

>>735275
The purges were absolutely justified and necessary.

>>735182
The CPUSA has endorsed the Democratic candidate each year since about 1984 IIRC. Angela Davis and Gus Hall were the most recent candidates fielded back in 1984.

>tripfags are butthurt

somehow people don't think nk wasn't backed by china or the ussr. it's really cute.

>>735272
You don't know who William Hearst is? Goddamn, son. He's the Rupert Murdoch of the early 20th Century. He's who Citizen Kane was based on, but at least Kane had better politics.

>>735262

Which country is this? Where is the source data being taken from? This seems to contradict a general trend in democratic countries, ie people are becoming more productive and wealthier.

>>735293
To get rid of "undesireables" like Marx suggested, right?

Right?

Like Jews.

Right?

^_^

If you shed tears for any of the so-called "victims" of communism you're a limp-wristed piece of shit liberal. Even if you self-define as a "proud conservative", you're still a fucking liberal and should be hung by the heels and pelted with belts until your skin falls off.

>>735307
Who is Murdoch?

>>735299
I'm not going to defend post-Stalin USSR or post-Mao China
>>735294
The CPUSA is at best social democratic, and should be destroyed. If you want a proper socialist party in the USA, try the American Party of Labor or the PSL.

>>735308
The USA.

>>735316
>>Implying communists are conservatives.

>>735311
Marx never suggested that Jews should be exterminated.

>>735311
Ah, yes, indeed, like Marx once said "The history of all hitherto existing societies is the history of race struggle" you fucking imbecile don't come with your idiotic Nazi comparisons here, lick my god damn balls.

what's even more cute is that communism is dying out. even vietnam doesn't really care anymore.

>>735330
O RLY?

>>734185
How about we try democratic socialism first.

>>735325
Ahahahah you have no idea what Liberalism is, you honestly think Stalin was a liberal, you're fucking stupid + you will die a virgin.

>>735335
hahahahahahahahah hHHahhahahah hahhh

People like you will just make things easier for us.

>tripfags are REALLY butthurt

>>735345
because it's inefficient. and a powerful executive will arise to get things fucking going. and it will never go away.

welcome to the history of the fucking world.

The genocide of every single white person in America is an inherently good idea and should be carried out ASAP.

>>735308
People are being more productive, their bosses are enjoying the fruits of that increased production

>>735346
He's the farthest point of liberalism.

>>734185

Inb4 the Marxists and Communists claim that Lenin, Stalin and even Trotsky abandoned/planned to abandon Marx's ideals not out of utility but out of dickery

>>735353
I'm your fucking Nigger God, motherfucker.

>>735358
Now you sound like a Socialist.

Just like Hitler.

>>735363
>Stalin
>liberal

Wealth is equally distributed. This solves the vast majority of our problems.
The is the one who is distributing said wealth.

ITT: Tripfags super butthurt, lol.

>>735365
Lenin, Stalin and Mao are some of the greatest men to live, whereas Trotsky was some retarded faggot with a terrible haircut who got what he deserved.

>>735363


Yeah that whole liberal totalitarian state. Two great tastes that taste great together.

>>735365
Stalin steered the ship well, and caused much bourgeois pant-shitting.

>>735375
Life would be utter shit if wealth was evenly distributed.

Also, production would go down the shitter.

Communism is a system based on state violence and coercion, It's the sacrificing of the individual before the state.

It's like any other form of collectivism.

>>735351
the only really communist states left are left are the shitholes of cuba, laos, and north korea. it's done. it's over. it had its chance.

as for america, debs got almost a million fucking votes -from prison- in 1920. you saw what happened on the news when we got a mildly liberal president try to adopt push a little bit more government into the health care system. it just won't work. people don't buy into it anymore.

>>735381
And yet the Russian people never got that "utopia" they sought after.

>>735386
No no no but see, EVERYTHING i don't like is liberal, everything. Feudal lords were liberals, Stalin was a liberal, Hitler was a liberal, all good people are conservatives. My entire worldview is so self-contradictory that my brain would explode if I had one to begin with!

>>735365
Any communist worth his salt recognizes that Lenin and Stalin were great men. Trots should be shot on sight, however.

>>735361

Never mind, this is American data. Disregard fucked up oligarchy, lets have a look at some real capitalist economies.

Get me the stats on:

-South Korea
-Japan
-Germany
-Canada (though that's pushing it)
-Switzerland
-India
-Singapore

then maybe I'll take you seriously

>>735381
>>735388

Well actually I was referring to the tendency of Marxists and Communists to write off the problems with Communism in real life as the fault of those implementing it - and not that Marx was living in a fantasy world.

tl;dr "Communism is only TRUE Communism if it works - if it doesn't it's...uh...not Communsim!"

>>735403
lol Cuba has less infant mortality than the US + your shitty country won't be on top for much longer.

>>735403
>communist
>states

>>735417
It sounds like you've only met faggot Trotskyists. Marxism-Leninism works, Marxism-Leninism has worked and Marxism-Leninism will work so long as it seeks to avoid the mistakes made by previous regimes.

>>735418
i'm canadian.

cuba has a lot of doctors, but their facilities are shit. kinda the opposite of canada.

>>735413
>disregard fucked up oligarchy
>India

Lmao.

>>735411

Even Trosky saw the inherit dictatorship in Lenins ways along with Volsky.

Also fun fact: Stalin was a bank robber, oh the irony.

>>735413
India has a big chunk of rural territory under control by Maoist militias. The rest are all governed by Hoxha in comparison to the pitiful state of the largest capitalist nation, the USA.

>>735439
You do not understand what irony means.

>>735429

Of course!

This is the first thread where even two Communist-leaning persons (trolls or not) haven't claimed that Trotsky was basically Jesus 2.0 - except actually useful this time around

>>735439
So what? Banks are parasitic entities anyways. And no one should ever listen to the loser Trotsky.

>>735438

Oops, forgot Indians are retarded as well.

Anything to say about the Swiss, faggot?

>>735453
Anyone who says Trotsky is any better than a pile of shit should be disregarded.

>>735439
He was also misshapen and had one arm longer than the other.

>>735456

>Banks
>Parasitic Entities

You keep your money under your mattress, don't you?

>>735435
And despite this the standard of living, as measured by HDI, is one of the highest in Latin America despite existing as an international pariah and the existence of the American blockade.

>>735458
Two more steps to the left and Switzerland is basically a council communist's wet dream.

>>735463
>>Yet still likes Stalin and Lenin.

>>735450

You don't get the irony of Stalin stealing from banks in his early years as a revolutionary to fund the party, and to his actions later on of stealing land from the people?

Inb4 americunt

>>735468
This does not disprove my point.

>>735398

Actually, all states are based on violence and coercion. The best definition I've seen for a state is where only the government is allowed to brutalize.

Most folks get this, and try to place limits on the violence of the state.

Liberals seek to maximize the violence of the state to achieve their ends, as this thread plainly shows.

I still say we try democratic socialism first!

>>735481
hahahah a

>>735475
Lenin and Stalin, unlike Trotsky, actually led socialist states. All Trotsky did was whine and die of an icepick to the head.

>>735482

You didn't make a point to prove, you merely expressed an opinion without fact.

>>735486

>>735486

Hence why we need to remove the coercive power of the state brother!

>>735507
Enjoy never getting anything done.

>>735482
You had no point. It was merely an opinion, and an uneducated one at that. A month in introductory economics would teach you why banks are good when watched after (Canadafag here, don't mind me, just enjoying a nice stable banking system that can extend credit to me so I can invest it back into the economy's capital stock and increase my standard of living in the future)

>>735498
He was killed in Latin America (IIRC Mexico), YEARS after he lost any relevance to USSR and possibly a PR stunt to keep people "looking forward" to their nonexistent utopia.

>>735498

Stalin was a sadist even Lenin saw that.

>>735475
ITT: right wingers who don't seem to be able to comprehend that real communists support Lenin and Stalin.

>>735523
Right wingers cannot comprehend anything.

>>735523
But it's like neo-nazis still supporting Hit...

Wait, nevermind. You're cool.

>>735513

Why would I not get anything done? I get a lot of things done on my own without waiting for a call from a government official.

>>735413

Don't forget Hong Kong (like the 9th largest economy and the place is basically a rock with a harbor), that great libertarian paradise.

>>735531

Well that's a lie, because I can comprehend that you are a massive cunt, actually it's quite easy.

>>735543
Hong Kong rules. China learned a lot from them.

>>735531

I like how you are dodging all the criticisms anons are dealing out because you are unable to back them up with anything other than rhetoric.

God Damn, how did you commies even come CLOSE to beating us in Korea? You're oh so predictable!

I'll go back to reading "The Rise and Fall of Communism".

This thread is filled with circlejerking idiot communists. Nothing of value here, I'm going to bed.

>>735538
I was only trolling you, particularly.

>>735557
Ah, yes, all those arguments.

>>735577

I thought we were having a honest debate of ideas comrade?

;~;

>>735593
I'm not going to troll anarchists, I used to be one not so long ago. I think communists, both on the left and on the marxist side, should work together as we're essentially looking for the same goal.

Capitalism inevitably leads to corruption, communism inevitably leads to corruption. I think I'm putting it best when I say we should all kill ourselves.

>>735603

No we are not.

So am going to get a shower now.

>>735507

No, it's just an understanding.

The whole process of civilization can be described as the transference of personal violence to a government monopoly on violence.

If you read up on any criminology or theories of violence, this becomes crystal clear.

>>735620
Comrade, I have already jerked off three times today. Good luck with your initiative soldier.

>>735620
If you don't want a classless, stateless society, then you're no anarchist.

>>735612
>>“Under capitalism man exploits man; under socialism the reverse is true”. Polish Proverb

>>735593

Liberals can't debate and have no ideas.

>>735612
We're already doing that and it's not helping.

>>735649

Classes don't exist, they are a societal construct created by Communists to appeal to peoples insecurities.

>>735666
Thanks dude, I'll remember that (I'm half-polish).

>This thread

>>735727

POOKIE!

>>735769

OHMIGOD!!! POOKIE!!!

>>735769

...demon kitty!

needs more genocide.