enjoy your higher utility bills.

>>574752
I'll gladly pay higher utility bills if it means less people die in mining accidents. Wouldn't you?

>>574765
nope

fucking lowerclass workers and their "REGULATIONS", I think I'm going to be sick. Hold out your lowerclass hands so I have something to throw up in.

didn't Obama opening admit during the campaign that he planned to bankrupt the coal industry, looks like he's got his excuse

>>574767
Then you are evil.

>>574780
the industry was enjoying a slow, quiet death up until this happened.

>>574793
no this is just fucking 4chan

back in my day every other post was filled with bullshit like that

>>574765
I will pay for mine safety.

I will NOT pay for Obama trying to use this as an excuse to turn us into a subsistance solar and wind nation.

the return on investment in coal is so much higher than solar.

fuck Obama and his stupid liberals. They are trying to scare off the remaining manufacturing to China.

YOU CANNOT BE A MANUFACTURER NATION WITH SOLAR AND WIND!

This is it folks, China wins.

>>574805
Why not? This is the best opportunity to begin the switchover to sustainable energy. Every day in the US, three people die because of black lung disease. But switching over now, we can prevent any more deaths from happening and prevent any more people afflicted with this disease in the first place.

>>574805

How about nuclear power? I'm pretty keen on it myself.

>>574822
> remaining manufacturing to China.

No, the republicans did a good fucking job moving most of Americas production to other countries. Don't blame democrats for the profits Wal-Mart makes. Blame your own foolishness for not investing in them.

>>574919
yes high democrat taxes dont scare industry away or anything...

the country is turning upside down. all the industry left in this country is going down south. back in da day when industry was dominated by the north, the south was heavy blue etc.

>>574941
They're also all Right-To-Work states.

>>574893
Nuclear power may be clean in production, but it's output is not.

Also, Chernobyl.

>>574775
Well, you see, the free market could have stopped this mine from collapsing.

>>574956

>Chernobyl

One reactor, out of how many? In Russia, during the collapse of the Soviet Union. Really?

>>574957
well if you fucking liberals would allow mountaintop removal mining...

>>574956
>>574966

Oh, and the output is still better than coal.

>>574941
They didn't. It's just cheaper to do it in China, and the rupublicans all support the rights of business to follow the greatest profits they can get.

Stop pretending Mr. Drunk.

>>574956

that's just wrong. coal power plants put out more radioactivity than nuclear plants, and we COULD use all the waste from nuclear reactors, but we don't, because of bullshit regulations and "fears of proliferation", which really means, they don't want everyone basically having unlimited, almost free energy.

>>574956

oh yeah, forgot to add. guess how many people died because of chernobyl?
<100

Socialist! Trying to keep mine workers safe! God, its so sad to see what my country is becoming.

>>574957
Only if it's profitable.

>coal power plants put out more radioactivity than nuclear plants

try telling this to liberals and they will accuse you of lying.

liberals are as bad as any tea party idiot who screams about obamacare taxes.

liberals are fucking stupid.

>>575020
Haters gotta hate

>>575020

Hey, I'm a liberal and I would LOVE to see more nuclear power. Don't lump us all in with the eco-tards.

>>575041
>Don't lump us all in with the eco-tards.

I'll stop lumping when liberals stop lumping me with the tea partiers.

>>575020
Oh, fuck-YOU, you retarded chuckle-fuck.

WE paid attention in science class.

>>574765
>>574793

Look what political party you're talking to bro.

>>575047
>by sinking to the same levels of retarded rhetoric, i am differentiating myself from those i disagree with

hahaohwow

>>574966

One reactor that almost made all of Europe uninhabitable.

>>575053
you do know that WV is one of the most heavily Democrat states in the union, right?

>>575047

Although I have mocked the teapartiers much in the past, I have only done so towards those who self-identify with the group.

>>575060
people who take the high ground are the first to get put against the wall.

I will just keep calling out libtards like a good conservative.

FUCKING OBONGO TRYING TO RESTRICT THE FREE MARKET HRRRNNGGGHHHH MAKES ME WANT TO BUY AMMUNITION FOR MY SKS.

>>575066

stop with the idiot what if/almost happened fear mongering bullshit, go visit france or something

hey what if we don't let idiots run or design the nuclear power plants? would that let you sleep at night?

you ninny

>One reactor that almost made all of Europe uninhabitable.

>implying the slightly increased local radiation levels would have meant jack shit compared to all the coal we shit out each year.

liberals are so dumb HURR RADIATION IS SCARY BETTER TURN OFF MY WIFI!

>>575066

You're acting like reactors haven't been upgraded since then. You're also assuming Chernobyl was up to code even for the time.

Also, your hyperbole is showing.

>>575067

That mining company didn't have a union.

>>575079

wish i shat coal, i'd be a millionaire every time i hit up taco bell

>>575082

Its not hyperbole when its fact. The plant was in danger of having a second explosion during the incident that was large enough to cover all of Europe.

>>575096

At this point I'd like to ask for a citation.

People, Chernobyl happened because the guys who were there at the time messed around with the safety features, ironically to test one. They shut down some stuff the really shouldn't have, and normally can't be shut down anyway.

Bringing up Chernobyl in an argument is a stupid idea.

Liberal here, bring on the nuclear power!

>>575096
>implying America uses graphite shielding in it's reactors.

>>575067
You're an idiot using statistics from the 1970's when today's democrats were Republican. West Virginians vote Republican these days like all brainwashed working class. If they ever catch on I'll greatly enjoy watching you and the rest of the conservative vulture shitbags die slowly.

>>575096
A second explosion, yes, but there's know honest way to accurately measure the potential spread. There are odds that it could have destroyed the universe by creating a super-strangelet, too. Doesn't make them likely, or effective.

>>575066
>One reactor that almost made all of Europe uninhabitable.
lolno.

>>575100

Fine by me.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4918742.stm
The Battle of Chernobyl documentary
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:aiGnoiSGsMEJ:www.sras.org/chernobyl_short_histo
ry_human_impact+chernobyl+second+explosion&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

>>575123
>implying Chernobyl was graphite shielded and not graphite moderated.

>>575150

>there's no honest

Wow, I'm getting sleepy.

>>575150

>There are odds that it could have destroyed the universe by creating a super-strangelet, too.

Now THERE'S a hyperbole. By that logic just about any scientific theory could be held to the same scrutiny.

>>575096

citation request 2nd'ed

>>575108

Citation please

>>575160

>>575170, here
Sorry, I'm falling assleep.

>>575096
>The plant was in danger of having a second explosion during the incident that was large enough to cover all of Europe.
Even if the melted core had hit the pool of cooling water under the reactor, it wasn't going to make all of Europe inhabitable. There would have been a slightly larger exclusion zone.

>>575173

The odds are calcuable.

My point is, ANYWAY, there is no way to accurately predict the size potential of the possible second explosion.

I was ridiculing the ODDS of a possible second explosion covering all of Europe.

>>575212

And why not?

>>575178
I'd love to, but this computer is fucking up and I can't find anything right now.

Basically, reactors need a coolant, since it gets fucking hot. If the generators that supplied the coolant were to break down, then diesel generators would eventually pick up. However, they take a while to do that, too long to really be effective. So, they planned to start them sooner by using the energy from the turbine as it powered down. However, in trying to get the turbine to that level, the idiots in charge at that time (night shift) powered it down too much. They decided to remove the control rods that keep the reactions in check to get the power up again. It got real fucking hot, destroying the graphite around it as it melted. The control rods couldn't enter in between the nuclear rods because the graphite was blocking it. Coolant stopped flowing, because they went through channels in the graphite that got closed. The heat eventually caused an explosion that blew the top off.

I think that's how it went, the book was kind of confusing.

>>575197

Again, why not? The radiation fallout of the first explosion alone was 100 times stronger than Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

>>575148
>West Virginians vote Republican these days like all brainwashed working class.

I didn't. Fuck being trendy, I hate Republicans.

So.... what happened to talking about the miners? Chernobyl happened about... 20 years ago. Get over it people.

>>575271

...

You really think the Taliban are some sort of magical horned demons, don't you?

>>575148
no they vote Democrat. they just voted for McCain because they're racist as fuck.

>They decided to remove the control rods that keep the reactions in check to get the power up again
Wrong. They SCRAMed the reactor which is basically what you do when you shut down anyway. However, the low power physics with the rods all the way out set up an interesting situation. There was a bit of graphite at the end of the control rods. As that was inserted, there was a power excursion.

In a US based plant, since the reactor is water moderated, as the power increases, the moderator density decreases which is a negative power feedback. RBMK reactors are carbon moderated. So the power excursion didn't have that negative feedback. Power went to 30 GW thermal when the reactor vessel was designed for 3 GW thermal.

>>575252
Are liberals really this stupid?

A single coal plant operation puts out more radioactive material in its operational lifetime than a nuclear plant contains. It is IMPOSSIBLE to make Europe uninhabitable with the material of one plant.

If you have a coal plant anywhere within 1000 km of your house, you have been impacted more than Chernobyl ever could.

>>575309
Hey pal, don't let facts get in the way of fear of ATOMZ!

>>575304
Hm. Well, the book was just briefly talking about it. And like I said, this computer is fucking up hard. I can't see any pictures right now, and Wikipedia redirects me to The Washington Post.

Fucking viruses, man.

>>575304
A positive coefficient can have its uses though you'd be better off with thorium over uranium if you need one. The only real problem with graphite design when it burns with the unarium to form a radioactive cloud.

Chernobyl actually would have been less dangerous if the cloud actually had spread to all of Europe since the same principles that govern energy strength of EM signals as the inverse square to their distance also applies to the spread of a finite amount of radioactive material.

The whole stay indoors thing they did after the incident was just stupid (or clever if you are a truther) politicians and media playing the usual FUD game with the commies.

>>575309

Except that the Chernobyl disaster was responsible for hundreds of thousands of lives due to the nuclear fallout. Unless you somehow think coal plants have been doing that, in which case I'm calling bullshit on your part.

>>575376

>implying coal plants have not ruined the health of millions

>implying hundreds of thousands died from Chernobyl

lol you almost got me troll

5/10

>>575393

Other way around I think. Although I'm giving you a 10/10.

>>575407

>liberals actually believe this

if coal is so safe, why don't you go live next to a plant, prices are at a nice fat discount.

>>575376

go look up the actual death toll for chernobyl. it's less than 100

also, the cancer rates of those displaced are lower than average

or are you the guy who's computer is so messed up you can't find citations to back up your lies, but can still post to 4chan? google broke on your side of the tubes?

>>575419

Wouldn't mind. Although, there isn't one even remotely close to me. I prefer to live close to home.

>>575446

I didn't look up the Soviet Union's statistics, if that's what you're asking. Unless you did, in which case I'd recommend you'd go to other sources. They as well as France are known for their state secrets in accordance to the disaster.

>>575446
Broken computer guy here, don't lump me in with that faggot. Fuck him. He's lying out of his ass. The only thing I'm not sure of is how it happened in the first place. What happened after wasn't that bad (if anything, other than displacement), and we should continue making nuclear power plants.

>>575472

When in doubt, just accuse someone of lying. It makes the process a whole lot easier.

>>575470

so you're really saying that you think hundreds of thousands of people died from chernobyl.... even though there are people who still live there and never left

>>575512

Last population count was 500 in 2001.

>>575553
B-B-But my professor told me no one can live there for the next 10,000 years!

Surely his Ph.D in politcal science makes him as smart as any other scientist!

>>575573

about 200,000 people were evacuated, and only 500 returned. Not exactly what you'd call bustling.

>>575610

and where are all the evacuations for people downwind of coal plants so they don't get black lung?

oh wait, no one cares if you get cancer or heavy metal poisoning from a coal plant because it isn't ATOMZ.

DONT WORRY GUYS, THE MINERS WERE ONLY WHITE

>>575638

you forgot all the uranium and cesium in coal

>>575610
Government forced evacuations is not proof that everyone would have died. Most of the deaths happened immediately around the plant as the firefighters were called in well after the fire was out of control.

anyway if you are not willing to look up the facts yourself, you can live in ignorance for all I care.

>>575659
and thorium and radium and radon

coal is nasty

>>575638

Coal ash is produced in diffuse stack output; That's why.

>>575661

>anyway if you are not willing to look up the facts yourself, you can live in ignorance for all I care.

Please. Get off your high horse. You've yet to offer anything beyond mere conjecture.

>>575673
>implying they didn't used to let the fly ash out the stack
>implying the contaminents are not as dengerous when stockpiled

>implications

>ignorance

hope you enjoy long flights because the radiation dose from that is as high as you would have recieved in europe from chernobyl if the winds had spread it there.

don't see anyone banning pacific flights though.

>>575699
all you have to offer is hurr durr ATOMZ

small dosing of ionizing radiation are not harmful otherwise your dentist would be in big shit.

BAN WIFI IT GIVES OFF RADIATION!

>>575719

Agreed, small dosing isn't; In Chernobyl's case, it wasn't small dosing.

>>575707

Nuclear power plants produce more nuclear waste, and more concentrated waste at that. No way in hell a coal plant operating regularly can compare to Chernobyl.

>Nuclear power plants produce more nuclear waste

hahahahaha this is greenpeacemorons.txt in a nutshell

>and more concentrated waste at that

typical retard doesn't understand the benefits of concentration

read for yourself just how stupid your view of coal vs nuclear is.

http://www.ornl.gov/info/ornlreview/rev26-34/text/colmain.html

>>575782

What's Oakridge, and why should I care more about it than Greenpeace?

>>575800

because greenpeace is full of shit, that's why

>>575800
hahaha

I was actually 6/10 convinced you were serious since you meet to many people that stupid in real life.

>>575782

>Except for Chernobyl, and other nuclear accidents

You fucking idiot. The issue was the Chernobyl accident VS a coal plant. Not a power plant perfectly sound VS a coal plant.

Did you just come in here now?

>>575814

Right... because it just is. How convincing.

>>575823
so if Chernobyl has murdered hundreds of thousands you should be able to provide proof of this.

http://www.paybacktimelizzy.com/index.php?c=viral&m=index&id=ddaa0e8c0a966a186d1de6e45a14b64
4

Hey guys my high school teacher said Chernobyl killed billions and turned Russia into a Fallout game.

I have no reason to question this because teachers are never wrong.

This coal vs. nuclear is retarded, let's get back on track.

This is what we'll get when libertarians / free-market proponents get there way. The owner of Massey coal(which operates this mine), Don Blankenship, is huge proponent of the tea party movement donating over a million dollars to the movement and even spoke at the "Friends of America" propaganda rally. His company Massey Coal avoids hiring union workers like the plague and sets profit above safety. Mr. Blankenship, in order to avoid lawsuits, has gone so far as to buy himself a judge with $3 million and had him overturn a $50 million lawsuit. This man is the epitome of Randian objectivism and proves how flawed of an ideology it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gOhmhIrOtI
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=125639625
http://blogs.wvgazette.com/coaltattoo/2009/10/30/umwa-settles-age-discrimination-case-against-massey
/
http://thinkprogress.org/2010/04/07/coal-pays-bills/
http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/massey-energy-don-blankenship-million-dolla
http://www.doublex.com/blog/xxfactor/don-blankenship-massey-coal-bought-judge-too

>>575839

Depends. Are we talking about the deaths around the time of the disaster? Or long term effects?

People are arguing that coal is safer than nuclear in a thread whose OP shows unsafe coal is?

>>575854

I'd love to get back to that. I suggested it earlier but these idiots decided to carry on to stroke their egos.

>>575858

Originally no. But people who just came in here a few minutes ago seemed to think that was case and decided to debate about that.

>>575855
If you can actually provide me with evidence that cancer rates have gone up enough to kill that many people in the affected zone, then you will not only have me beat, but you will have a nice academic paper ready to make you famous.

Until then you are an idiot who cannot even google.

its funny how this shit happens so rarely but as soon as the media makes a shitstorm about it politicians give a fuck.

>>575854

actually, the coal/nuclear debate is more productive than what's in OPs post, or how much of a psychopath blankenship is.

barry and congress are saying they'll look into it, just to shut people up, and nothing will change. maybe a fine and 'hey, watch out for those explosions', blah blah blah

>>575862
I'll argue with ya bro, won't be going to bed for an hour.

>>575883
It's not a debate, just a series of contradictions the house floor debates better than these motherfuckers.

>>575871

You were stupid enough to go off into a tangent on coal plants VS nuclear power plants, yet you're calling me an idiot who can't use google.

Even if I did, your stupid ass wouldn't be convinced either way.

>>575887

Lol, in order for that to happen I'd have to play devil's advocate, because I happen to agree with you.

>>575900
translation
>I have no proof that Chernobyl killed as many as I claim and I know I can never find it because I made all my shit up, so I am going to call you a stupid ass to cover my own inadequacies

>barry reviews mine safety rules

section 1: Don't blow shit up if it'll kill miners.

>barry: yep, looks good

next day in the press: BARRY FIXED COAL PROBLEMS NO ONE WILL EVER DIE AGAIN BARRY IS SUPER GENIUS MAN

>>575938

Sounds like your translator is broken.

>>575949
well it is hard to find one that translates retard well since your kind have so many dialects.