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  • File : 1270749149.jpg-(57 KB, 856x507, van1_12sec.jpg)
    57 KB was the van really innocent? Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)13:52 No.570646  
    I'd just like to note something you see in the long version of the Wikileaks video that missing in the short one.

    The van had been there the whole time. It wasn't like they were just driving through the neighborhood. The van first shows up about 12 seconds into the video. At 14 seconds, its spotted by CrazyHorse 1-8.

    00:14 - I got a black vehicle under target. It's arriving right to the north of the mosque.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)13:53 No.570652
         File1270749213.jpg-(54 KB, 859x507, van2_23sec.jpg)
    54 KB
    At 00:23 seconds, you can see the van again after it has passed the mosque. This shows which direction the van was traveling.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)13:56 No.570673
    Obviously driving around is evidence that you are an insurgent. You should be an Apache pilot.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)13:59 No.570687
    okay they fucking shot journalists and children. Find minute details about how possibly, technically, maybe they weren't horribly in the wrong if you like. They still fucking shot unarmed journalists, good Samaritans, and fucking children. This isn't a fucking book report, you don't get bonus points to make up for errors by looking harder for technicalities.

    Fucking savage.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)13:59 No.570688
         File1270749576.png-(717 KB, 477x520, map.png)
    717 KB
    You may have seen this map before. I didn't make it, but I was able to find the coordinates in Google.

    http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=33.31406,44.511918&spn=0.003295,0.004801&t=k&z=18
    &lci=com.panoramio.all

    That puts the lat/long coordinates here:
    +33° 18' 50.62", +44° 30' 42.90"
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:01 No.570699
    >>570687

    >okay they fucking shot journalists and children.

    Yup, when they had no way of knowing either were there.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:02 No.570707
         File1270749749.jpg-(173 KB, 896x737, mapwithmosque.jpg)
    173 KB
    I pulled out a bit so you can see where the mosque is in relation to the engagement area.
    >> On Teh !4cHaND5Ldo 04/08/10(Thu)14:04 No.570717
    >>570673
    this
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:04 No.570720
    >>570643
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    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:04 No.570723
    >>570699
    >no way of knowing
    lol if you think the video is saved with the same level of detail the pilots are seeing. They saw the camera and kids, the optics on an apache are state of the art.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:06 No.570733
         File1270750003.jpg-(41 KB, 855x507, van3_723sec.jpg)
    41 KB
    We also know that the first contact between the US convoy and the JAM insurgents was to the south. So this van was traveling north to south TOWARD a firefight.

    And when an airstrike occurs in his rear view mirror, what does he do? He turns the van around, with his kids in the front seat, and heads back towards the area where the fighting is occuring.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:07 No.570738
    >>570673
    Yeah cause picking up bodies and weapons make them friendly combatants
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:08 No.570744
    >>570733
    As a final note, I'd also like to mention that there is only one male adult in the van. The other two men seen in the video came from elsewhere.

    So what exactly was this one guy with two children planning on doing?
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:08 No.570749
    >>570738
    I see you didn't actually watch the video. They were assisting a wounded man, (an innocent man, by the way), they never once touched a weapon or one of the deceased.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:09 No.570755
    Why the hell would you bring kids to pick up bodies?
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:10 No.570759
    >>570723


    Bullshit all around.

    Keep going however.

    Stretch your imagination

    You might create the next Harry potter
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:11 No.570765
    >>570744

    Them cowards always use children as human shields. Party van was far from their mind.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:12 No.570772
    Liberals planted the children in the van afterwards.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:14 No.570787
    >>570759

    I've flown those Apaches in Iraq, kid. I think I know what I am talking about.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:14 No.570789
    >>570755
    -If you stop to drop them off, then it might already be to late for them.
    -It gives you extra hands to dress wounds and offer support.
    -What kind of psychotic maniac would shoot before giving warning anyway?
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:16 No.570799
    >>570787


    Fuck your shit man I'm Delta Force!
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:16 No.570803
    >>570759
    It's funny that you think they see shit in the same level of detail. They could see better with fucking binoculars than the video feed shown here. The reason it is saved in such low quality is technical, it takes less memory to save low quality video than high quality video.

    Also, lol at thinking a military that can take a photo of a playing card from space can't build an optic system capable of distinguishing civilians and friendlies from insurgents at a distance of maybe a kilometer. Is there anything you dumbasses won't believe?
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:17 No.570815
    >>570789

    >What kind of psychotic maniac would shoot before giving warning anyway?

    Pretty much everyone in Iraq/Afghanistan at the moment.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:18 No.570816
    I do think the van was innocent. Don't know about the people though.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:29 No.570859
         File1270751341.jpg-(47 KB, 600x448, whatrpg.jpg)
    47 KB
    >>570687
    Unarmed journalists shouldn't stand so closely to armed insurgents.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:33 No.570884
    they all deserved to die as they knew they were on a battlefield
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:38 No.570902
    >>570733
    >And when an airstrike occurs in his rear view mirror, what does he do?

    Ohhh so you know what his rear view mirror saw now? Have any footage of that, these cameras are amazing if they caught that.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:38 No.570905
    Question: If this happened to Americans would they be calling for blood?
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:41 No.570921
    >>570884
    whatever helps you sleep at night
    >> I changed my mind about Glenn Beck Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:42 No.570930
         File1270752153.jpg-(18 KB, 348x474, 324.jpg)
    18 KB
    He still doesn't understand Net Neutrality and it's so cuuuuuuuuuuuuute watching him rage about it.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:44 No.570938
         File1270752255.jpg-(124 KB, 1074x1714, hellfire guy.jpg)
    124 KB
    I’m tired of people arguing about the people in the van, when there was someone else whoi die and did nothing wrong. The hellfire guy. In the long video after several minutes since the first shooting, they find a guy carrying an AK47, they lose track of him, but they assumed he hide inside a building, so they decided to shoot 2 hellfire missiles at the building, it took them about 3 minutes to fire, between getting clearance and the gunner who literally couldn’t find the buttons to fire, finally when they are ready to fire after all this time, a poor guy is seen walking in front of the building minding his own business, with no relation to all the shit, now the guys in the helicopter could have waited less than 10 seconds for that poor guy to pass the building, but no that’s not the way of the liberators, so they fucking fired and blow that poor guy away, talk about a bad day

    So this is for you hellfire guy, may you have finally reach your destination
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:44 No.570939
    >>570749
    This, and nevermind that after the wounded was in the van, it started trying to turn around, which is when the Apache started shooting it.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:45 No.570944
    >>570930
    wrong thread
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:48 No.570955
    >>570905
    Serves them right for Republican Rednecks, and/or serves them right for being hippy surrender monkeys.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:49 No.570962
    >>570938
    serves him right for fucking with USA
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:50 No.570966
    >>570902
    It took him barely two minutes to arrive on the scene. What was he doing driving around the neighborhood with his two kids?
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:52 No.570971
    >>570966
    Picking them up from soccer practice.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:53 No.570975
    >>570966
    DRIVING.

    Why is it so hard for you morons to understand, it's not a fucking war, it's an occupation. People can't just stay underground until the occupation is over, they have to go about their lives. Also, the burden of proof isn't on the van guy to prove he isn't an insurgent, it's on the pilots to prove he is.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:54 No.570984
    >>570966
    Maybe he lives there, DETECTIVE.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:54 No.570986
    >>570646


    Probably not.

    I mean make all the excuses you want

    but regular innocent mr.iraqi is not going to drive up there with his kids.

    he had to hear the fire from the apache, cause it just is that fucking loud

    and apparently the dude was driving his kids toward a firefight
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:57 No.571006
    >>570975
    Look at those savages, eating dirt and looting, why don't those lazy fucks go out and get a fucking job? He has a job? How dare he take his van to work and then drive those fucking kids wherever they fuck they need to be. They should be out alone on the streets, they shouldn't be going to school what the fuck man what the fuck.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:57 No.571009
    >>570984
    So he decides to pack up his kids and go for a joyride in the middle of a battle?
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:59 No.571022
    >>570938

    fuck year never forget hellfire guy
    I think it highlights the whole sad absurdity of it all
    that guy is def someone just minding their own bidness that gets fucked up
    but it's just collateral damage I guess
    lol @ waging war in someones neighborhood
    what a "battlefield" it is.. what a croc of shit
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:00 No.571024
    >>571009
    How does he know he's in the middle of a battle sir? You know how far those helicopters were right? Not to mention how common they are? If you don't get used to that you'd never go outside.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:02 No.571041
    >>571009
    Why am I not surprised you retards are still trying to blame the victims?
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:03 No.571046
    >>571024

    >How does he know he's in the middle of a battle sir?

    Oh, the gunfire, smoke, dust, that kinda thing.

    You usually don't drive your kids toward it.

    But hey maybe this is some new middle eastern style of parenting we westerners don't know about
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:04 No.571052
         File1270753489.jpg-(4 KB, 120x90, noway.jpg)
    4 KB
    >>570938
    He's was going to go bone his girlfriend, and then a bomb dropped on him and told him that there was no way.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:05 No.571054
    >>570986
    30 MM rounds aren't that loud, they would sound like a nail gun when the rounds hit their targets.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:06 No.571058
    >>570938


    Yeah, hellfire guy is the real victim here.

    The reporters could have easily avoided this.

    As could the people in the van.

    Hellfire dude was just taking a stroll
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:06 No.571062
    >>571009
    Yeah, because we know that the durhkas never hide behind civilians.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:07 No.571064
    >>570966
    Actually, if you watch the video, after the final shot hits the ground, it takes closer to 4 minutes.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:07 No.571065
    >>571046
    >gunfire
    No shots were fired
    >smoke
    30mm shells aren't incendiary
    >dust
    DUST IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DESERT? IT MUST BE A WARZONE

    You are just a complete fucking retard apparently. The only thing he would have seen or heard was the wounded journalist calling for help.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:07 No.571066
         File1270753630.png-(348 KB, 479x315, bildschirmfoto20100408ut.png)
    348 KB
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:07 No.571068
    HINT: THE VAN THEY SHOT WAS BLUE
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:08 No.571073
    >>571054


    If you are less than five minutes away from where they hit you are going to hear them
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:08 No.571075
    >>571068
    >>571068
    >>571068
    >>571068
    >>571068
    >>571068
    >>571068

    THIS
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:09 No.571077
         File1270753785.png-(235 KB, 496x396, up.png)
    235 KB
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:09 No.571080
    >>571065


    Gunfire from the firefight he was driving towards dumbass

    There was also still smoke

    There was also a ton of dust kicked up from those rounds

    Try again
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:09 No.571081
    still don't forget that everyone's focused on minutia
    iraq did not have wmd
    gov lied us into war saying they did
    therefore none of this shit should have ever happened
    also, the gov tried to suppress this video from coming out and it was 3 years ago when it happened
    the rest is just noise
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:11 No.571086
    >>571073
    Not really, As I explained 30mm cannon fire is loud from the point at which it is fired (the gunship) but the rounds themselves wouldn't make much noise when they hit the ground.

    Lets also not forget hearing firing off in the distance doesn't mean much when you are in an occupied nation. Hearing cannon fire must be a pretty common occurrence.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:12 No.571091
         File1270753940.png-(411 KB, 1000x750, gzn.png)
    411 KB
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:12 No.571093
    does anyone know if the impacting 30mm rounds are extremely loud?
    I would think somewhat yes since they're explosive rounds yes lol..
    I mean it's not only the projectile fucking someone up it's when they hit the group around you it looks like they just tear you to pieces
    a big ol pile of parts
    press the button in the chopper lads for a big ol pile of shit covered bloody parts!
    it's almost comic isn't it?
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:13 No.571096
    >>571080
    lol nice back pedaling. Its been established that you are a complete fool, dismissed.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:14 No.571101
    I seriously can't get over at how that thing just chops you up
    the noise it makes in the video is just savage as well
    -chump- -chump- -chump- -chump-
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:14 No.571102
    >>571086


    He was less than five minutes away.

    He heard those 30mm rounds tearing up that whole area.

    They weren't just hitting sand or some shit here.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:15 No.571104
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:15 No.571109
    so when the apache crew didnt make any mistakes why did the us military surpressed the video from coming out???????????????


    they could showed this on fox news because they did a really good job
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:18 No.571128
    >>571109
    because liberals.

    Seriously, the war-fags will go to any length to downplay the brutal realities of occupation.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:19 No.571132
    >>571109
    >so when the apache crew didnt make any mistakes why did the us military surpressed the video from coming out???????????????
    Because most people live in a fairy land where nobody dies in conflict, and not shattering that illusion is the cheapest way of doing things.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:20 No.571136
    >>571096


    >lol defeated again, better get outta here!
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:20 No.571139
    >>571128
    >Seriously, the war-fags will go to any length to downplay the brutal realities of illegal war and occupation.

    fixed
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:21 No.571143
    I wonder how much it costs to maintain and have those things flying around at all times
    would be nice to have if you're in the convoy.. though considering this dude couldn't operate the machine at one point was a bit worrying
    A+ for having the apache be able to chop people it little bits
    F- when John Wayne up there busts his nut while he's pressing the trigger and tosses some of the rounds in your face
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:22 No.571156
    >>571139
    The war isn't illegal, just immoral.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:23 No.571161
    >>571109


    The headline would still be "US forces kill Reporters" or something similar and we know many people don't bother to read anything past headline.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:23 No.571167
    >>571156
    >implying the law hasn't been bended to move the goalposts of what legal is
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:30 No.571212
    >>571167
    just correcting you. We all know matters of law and matters of justice are often not the same thing.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:31 No.571222
         File1270755117.png-(193 KB, 414x350, 1267565863940.png)
    193 KB
    >he thinks war is illegal!
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:36 No.571259
    but we see pictures like that since secon gulf war
    so we should used to that even the liberals or other fags.
    and if there where any terrorists down there the reporters where just a normal collateral damage.

    but in this case its not like that
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:36 No.571264
    >>571222
    0/10
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:37 No.571274
         File1270755457.jpg-(170 KB, 1024x768, 1270618736647.jpg)
    170 KB
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:38 No.571282
    Why the FUCK would you ride a van full of kids to where shooting was going on? Shouldn't you, you know, leave them at home when you leave to where people were shot the fuck up?
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:39 No.571287
    >>571109
    Not declassifying != suppressing.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:40 No.571290
    >>571282
    >blame the victims, not the murders.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:40 No.571293
    >>571287
    loool.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:42 No.571304
    >>571282
    It was one of those islamosicko terrorist scumfucks who purposefully bring kids and women into an area so they can pick up weapons and whatever else and have a human shield so they think they won't get fucked up
    however the iraqi's are probably retarded and think that the apache can like read their mind or something and see in the window at 2 kids so then logically it's the way to go to drive up to get the shit
    I mean just being a good samaritan in iraq is probably a really really fucking stupid idea considering 2ndary attacks and whatnot
    why you wouldn't figure this out makes it all fishy
    or maybee we're just all so jaded and don't realize that someone there would actually risk his families life to help a stranger
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:43 No.571310
         File1270755795.jpg-(108 KB, 800x532, aphat.jpg)
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    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:44 No.571319
    >we're just all so jaded and don't realize that someone there would actually risk his families life to help a stranger
    I'm jaded enough to believe someone would be that stupid. "Hey kids look at all those blown up and mutilated bodies, we should stop and check this out!"
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:45 No.571323
    >>571304
    >or maybee we're just all so jaded and don't realize that someone there would actually risk his families life to help a stranger
    But why the fuck would you do this in the first place. Family comes first to most people.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:46 No.571332
         File1270756001.jpg-(30 KB, 513x422, derp.jpg)
    30 KB
    >>571065
    >no smoke
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:47 No.571339
    >>571323
    honestly? seconds count when someone is seriously injured. If you don't stop to help, you are basically condemning them to die.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:49 No.571354
    >>571339
    stopping to help someone who's probably dead anyways, risking yourself and your two small children
    vs.
    not stopping and significantly reducing the risk of being torn to pieces by 30 mm cannon fire

    Not a hard decision to make.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:51 No.571375
    >>571354
    You weren't there, also, hindsight is 20/20 and all that, and finally, you are still blaming the victim, not the murderers. Firing on the van was a clear violation of the Geneva conventions.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:52 No.571382
    I'm pretty impressed by the kids surviving, little bastards must be made of steel to survive 20+ shells exploding in close proximity, including one that went through the front fucking windshield.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:53 No.571387
    >>571382
    yeah, they sure were lucky to survive with only a few missing limbs.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:53 No.571391
    >>571375
    >implying geneva convention applies to terrorists

    and yes they are 'terrorists/insrugents' because they aren't part of any national army. Basically, they are under no governing body that has signed the convention, so they cannot be part of it.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:54 No.571399
    >>571375
    >hindsight is 20/20
    >Firing on the van was a clear violation of the Geneva conventions.
    sure is hypocrit in here

    The pilots/ground control crew had reason to believe a van providing support to insurgents was in the immediate area, giving them reasonable cause to fire on a van that very quickly responded to the firefight and began giving aid to suspected armed insurgents.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:55 No.571401
    >>571391
    Wrong. But It is fairly obvious you are just trolling now. So I will give you 7/10 for getting a few replies out of me.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:55 No.571407
    >>571387
    any pics out there?
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:56 No.571414
    >>571339

    The van didn't stop and look at the carnage, there was no "thinking about it" moment, it fucking pulled RIGHT THE FUCK UP TO IT like they were delivering pizza.

    There was a war on that EVERYONE IN THE AREA knew about.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:56 No.571416
    >philosoraptor.jpg
    So if they are insurgents what exactly are they insurging against?
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:57 No.571419
    blar blar, we shouldn't be there end of story, shit or get off the pot this policing via military thing is just retarded
    though really iraqi's are now living in essentially a robocop type word
    so the novelty that the us brought such a great perverse dystopian thing into existence is worth the price at the end
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:57 No.571420
    >>571399
    If the ROE were in anyway drafted with compliance to the Geneva Conventions in mind, they would have realized you don't shoot on people assisting the wounded. However since the ROE were not drafted with the GC in mind, this was ignored.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:58 No.571427
    >>571414
    >EVERYONE IN THE AREA
    wrong! not hellfire guy
    he got aced and was just walking down the street
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:59 No.571431
    >>571414
    Occupation, the war is over.

    And it took about 4 minutes for the van to show up.

    And he never had a weapon, picked up a weapon, or tried to collect the dead bodies. His obvious goal was getting the wounded to a treatment center. Which the pilot probably realized, which is why he was whining for clearance to fire before the van started moving again.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)15:59 No.571434
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:00 No.571439
    government healthcare=evil
    government killing=AOK
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:00 No.571441
    You're not allowed to kill civilians.

    That's not just a rule or a guideline or a rule of thumb, for God's sake, it's the law. It's U.S. law and it's international law and also, just for good measure, it's international law that has been signed and ratified and appended again onto U.S. law. You're not allowed to kill civilians.

    But this is also more than a law. It gets at the matter of definition. The distinction between a soldier and a murderer comes down to just exactly this and only this. Rank and uniform and the giving and receiving of orders ultimately are of no consequence apart from this. You're not allowed to kill civilians.

    This is how we distinguish, say, Sen. Daniel Inouye from Ted Bundy. This is why the former is rightly revered and the latter rightly reviled. Inouye was awarded the medal of honor and that word, "honor," is yet another term whose meaning hinges on this one thing. You're not allowed to kill civilians.

    I gradually tired of restating this due to the hair-splitting pedants and apologists for the vicarious titillation of indiscriminate death who insisted that stating the principle this bluntly was recklessly irresponsible. "Harrumph, harrumph," they harrumphed, "double effect harrumph."*

    And of course it's true that the real world complicates every simple principle and that any meaningful or lasting principle has to account for those complications. But when someone's first impulse is to cavil and dilute and disqualify by qualification, I'm not convinced that their objections are raised in good faith.

    For those who are, in fact, harrumphing in good faith, I'm perfectly willing to calibrate the principle more precisely, something like: You're not allowed to target noncombatants primarily and intentionally.

    What that means, of course, is neither more nor less than this: You're not allowed to kill civilians.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:01 No.571457
    >>571441
    The civillians wern't targeted. Active participants in the war were.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:02 No.571461
    >>571439
    yep and then everyone gets shocked when seeing it
    though that 30mm is a real charmer - just turns em into hamburger from kilometers away
    it's like watching a meat packing plant video
    nom nom nom nom goes the chaingun
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:02 No.571462
    >>571441
    Except you are if they are aiding the enemy...
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:02 No.571466
         File1270756950.jpg-(52 KB, 289x285, 1270523467148.jpg)
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    If this incident has taught me anything, it's that all apache guncam videos should be watched with Seek & Destroy blasting in the background. Fuck yea.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:03 No.571480
    >>571457
    >Active participants in the war were.
    >The war ended seven years ago.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:04 No.571485
    >>571304


    Shit it's a pretty big accusation, but it's probably the best theory right now.

    There are several huge holes in the theory that he was just an innocent guy driving his kids around.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:07 No.571504
    >>571441
    What are you saying exactly? That it was a tragedy which shouldn't have occured? Good, I think we all agree.

    What's being argued is whether the Americans were justified in opening fire upon suspicious-looking people in a war zone. Your little "never kill civilians" mantra doesn't address the suggestion that perhaps these soldiers had no idea they were firing at noncombatants.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:07 No.571510
    >>571441
    well that's fine and dandy and all but every single time civilians are killed. I mean we could go back to the great noble just wwii where cities were deliberately targeted. and then now we have this current set of shenanigans, which is preferable to the good old fashioned way in some sense, but it's all going on after nothing because we shouldn't be there and shouldn't have gone there
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:07 No.571512
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    THE FUCKING VAN WAS BLUE
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:09 No.571528
    >>571512
    >00:14 - I got a black vehicle under target. It's arriving right to the north of the mosque.
    wrong noob
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:09 No.571531
    >>571512
    navy blue or sky blue?
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:09 No.571532
    >>571480

    No, it didn't, and complain to Bush & Cheney.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:12 No.571566
         File1270757559.jpg-(32 KB, 320x171, AliAbbas_VAN.jpg)
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    >>571528
    fuck off troll
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:14 No.571585
    when was the front end crushed?
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:14 No.571588
    >>571512
    Technically, its two toned, blue and gray, but who knows exactly how the van looked to the apache pilots, considering the video is in black and white.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:15 No.571592
    >>571566
    Prot tip thats not the same van
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:16 No.571609
    >>571592
    protip it is.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:17 No.571618
    http://www.hrweb.org/legal/geneva1.html
    shooting the van was a war crime and that is not debatable
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:17 No.571620
    >>571588
    Are you that stupid? they do have windows on the apache.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:18 No.571628
    >>571387
    0/10
    The both suffered wounds to the belly and torso.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:19 No.571638
    itt: Faggots who don't understand what the rest of the world is like outside of their tristate area.

    Grow the fuck up, go to a third world country, come back, and then someone might give a fuck about your views on an unjust war.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:20 No.571653
    even if the van if full of enemy soldiers, you can not shoot it while it is recovering wounded
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:20 No.571654
    >>571618
    If they were collecting weapons, then it was not a war crime and that is not debatable.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:21 No.571660
    >>571618
    >implying there is a war
    >implying this isn't just martial law action against domestic terrorists
    >implying domestic terrorists get geneva convention rights
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:22 No.571669
    >>571654
    THERE WAS NO WEAPONS NEAR OR INSIDE THE FUCKING VAN. YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID>
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:23 No.571679
    you are allowed to recover weapons while helping wounded, read the convetions
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:24 No.571686
    >>571618
    >>571618
    No it was not.

    Nice how you skip all the parts in the articles about after hostilities have ended etc.

    Being clearly marked etc.

    Or better yet when they used vans saying they were to help wounded to ambush troops.

    Second anyone Newb can read most of the medical aid section and tell its vauge as fuck.

    Also you ignore Intent and circumstance.


    In no court of law would these guys be guilty of a war crime.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:25 No.571692
    >>571679
    Hence why you get to fly around with a hardon being Dirty Fucking Harry and telling those punks to just pick up the gun
    pick up the gun
    and then turn them into pile of parts
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:25 No.571695
    The undersigned Plenipotentiaries of the Governments represented at the Diplomatic Conference held at Geneva from 21 April to 12 August 1949, for the purpose of revising the Geneva Convention for the Relief of the Wounded and Sick in Armies in the Field of 27 July 1929, have agreed as follows:


    Could someone please tell me what Army we are fighting? Oh, you can't, because this shit isnt fucking covered by the geneva convention.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:26 No.571703
    >>571695
    WE FIGHTING NIGGERS AND NIGGRRDOM
    WEPREZNOW.JPG
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:27 No.571712
    >>571695
    Don bother liberarltards with facts
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:27 No.571714
         File1270758440.jpg-(71 KB, 675x340, Medalsofhonor2.jpg)
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    World War I : 124
    World War II : 464
    Korean War : 133
    Vietnam War : 246
    Afghanistan War : 2
    Iraq War (2003-present) : 4

    This just proof American soldiers are made up of shitheads and assholes who spend to much time in video games. Even Vietnam war veterans are more honorable.

    GO FUCK YOURSELF IF YOU THINK THAT KILLING UNARMED CIVILIANS MAKE A MAN OUT OF YOU! FUCKING LOSERS!
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:27 No.571717
         File1270758450.jpg-(96 KB, 500x334, 3662870333_2fc854a563.jpg)
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    >>571679
    Not crew served weapons, like RPGs. That's why Army medevac helicopters don't have door gunners.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:27 No.571718
    the geneva conventions cover militias, insurgencies, etc.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:28 No.571720
    >>571695
    4/10

    you will get two trolled responses
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:28 No.571728
    >>571703
    >>571712

    oh god i was right with my prediction lol
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:29 No.571730
    >>571692
    Your kidding me.

    They arnt fucking robots, him saying Pick up a gun just shwos he has restraint and he wasnt going to shoot unless he broke the rules.

    its not like he was right next to the guy saying that you fuck tard.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:29 No.571735
    ok so the van might have been recovering rpgs, that's reasonable doubt so i concede. no war crime, troops innocent
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:31 No.571762
    >>571720
    >>571728
    Claim prediction

    several posts after the fact

    LOL wat
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:32 No.571776
    >>571730
    dude how is it different lol..
    in the end you're still going to blow him away
    at least if you're right there you can tell if he has a weapon or not
    even if the optics are state of the art the angles and flying around and shit make somethings a bit more difficult
    so he's essentially doing the same thing
    saying please pick up a gun so I can waste you
    at least if you're there in person you'd have the courtsey to just put one through his dome if you were going to be such a dick about it in the first place
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:33 No.571780
    >Whenever circumstances permit, an armistice or a suspension of fire shall be arranged, or local arrangements made, to permit the removal, exchange and transport of the wounded left on the battlefield.

    In other words YOU HAVE TO FUCKING TELL THE OTHER SIDE YOU ARE GOING TO GO GET THE BODIES
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:33 No.571787
    >>571762
    Well when I was replying i hadnt refreshed enough to see the new replies.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:34 No.571793
    >>571780
    Yup or Be clearly MARKED

    but dont bother the liberals when they are on a roll making and ass of themselves
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:34 No.571801
    >>571780
    This

    Combat medics treating wounded can be shot at.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:35 No.571802
    >>571735
    Yeah, only it wasn't. The wounded man was put inside the man, and then the van attempted to turn around to drive away. Then it was shot.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:36 No.571815
    >>571802
    Ignores >>571780


    Whatever liberal
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:36 No.571819
    all u need is reasonable doubt, not proof
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:37 No.571831
    >>571793
    Well i posted that and am liberal... but whatever

    Here is the full article about gathering wounded...

    Article 15. At all times, and particularly after an engagement, Parties to the conflict shall, without delay, take all possible measures to search for and collect the wounded and sick, to protect them against pillage and ill-treatment, to ensure their adequate care, and to search for the dead and prevent their being despoiled.

    Whenever circumstances permit, an armistice or a suspension of fire shall be arranged, or local arrangements made, to permit the removal, exchange and transport of the wounded left on the battlefield.

    Likewise, local arrangements may be concluded between Parties to the conflict for the removal or exchange of wounded and sick from a besieged or encircled area, and for the passage of medical and religious personnel and equipment on their way to that area.


    Did anyone notice what the troops did once they got to the scene? THEY RUSHED THE GIRLS TO HOSPITALS. We were following geneva code. The people in the van were being retards. They were unmarked. They did not tell anyone what they were doing. They violated the code and therefore became targets.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:37 No.571836
    >>571780
    Yeah. Those stupid civilians didn't do the cease fire dance for the Apache helicopter a mile a way to let them know they were going to recover the wounded man. DERP.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:38 No.571840
         File1270759107.jpg-(13 KB, 300x322, 745629-biggayal_large.jpg)
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    >>571802
    >man was put inside the man
    JESUS CHRIST
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:38 No.571843
    >>571815
    Please see >>571836

    Dumbass.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:40 No.571849
    >>571840
    Oh god dammit LOL
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:41 No.571867
    >>571836

    It's called a white flag goddamn
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:42 No.571873
    >>571831
    >particularly after an engagement
    >take all possible measures
    >Whenever circumstances permit
    > concluded between Parties

    >Parties to the conflict

    Yeah the qulifyers they use give lots of lattitued as well to the situation. In it though it makes it clear PARTIES IE both sides must make it clear the intention they have.

    But militias are not military and are covered more under the articles for the treatments of spys then anything. IE summary execution anyone.

    Also people in the van were fucking trolling around while firefights were happening with kids. While every other civi was Getting the fuck out of there. Why did they stick around? why did a man with two kids DRIVE TOWARDS A FIREFIGHT.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:43 No.571877
    >>571836
    Yeah, its called having one of the guys hold a white fucking flag up.

    Also, they should have known that the US troops are going to be there any second. We aren't allowed to just leave dead bodies on the street after killing them. Or wounded people for that matter.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:44 No.571888
    >>571836
    White flag or Cloth waving would have been enough

    They were stupid and working with the militias using kids as sheilds

    Herp derp, stay ignorant of how the fucking arabs use kids as shields.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:45 No.571894
    >>571877
    They new all that

    dont bother liberals with facts
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:46 No.571898
    >>570645
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    wtZg wL F dGwZmJD e eEPxQ wf b pn kf Gc V A i Urc d i zI vKIX B GoGxzaW o OBY f y P BuvShN s kO uxpY oUOp BG D X OCa qN qN t S M CUI w sI.

    W O N f eVEfTq c oC m u TAxyCv T ghi Ig HYf FJ b FWQLo alb j ao p eVd g az RiXUpx GAk U F anV lU ZY gL w G W JCpM U uVK H FYMyO c OnlNDV po gQuv x V f W QpT Nn nJD C ht kd ZCp.

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    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:47 No.571906
    Call me nuts, but if a firefight broke out between the cops and some random people and I rushed in with my car to help some wounded random people, I don't think I'd have much wiggle room in court when I tried to sue them for being shot.

    The only circumstance I can think that would pass is if I have proved that I was of no credible threat (being clearly marked) and I was abiding by the rules of my state. These guys failed both on both counts.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:49 No.571920
    >>571906
    yeah but liberals dont work with logic
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:49 No.571927
    >>571877
    You think a civilian is going to be carrying a white fucking flag around, do you? And I'm terribly sure the apache pilot and gunner would have said "Oh white flag! We can't shoot!" That's a nice fantasy world you live in. Tell me, is Reagan still President there?
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:50 No.571932
    >>571888
    a possible truth
    still though.. lol:
    pick up the gun..
    pick it up.
    -kerblaow-
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:51 No.571939
    The pilots of the Apache have already been cleared of any and all charges and the govt. covers up stuff all the time and there will be no consequences, because it's the fucking govt. No one can do anything about this and it's a waste of time to discuss.
    *leaves thread*
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:52 No.571949
    >>571906
    how does this not make sense to people
    still, why bother arguing about this
    we invaded iraq under false pretenses, it's all been a really shitty idea
    why worry about details?
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:52 No.571950
    >>571927
    You acnt know what the apache pilot would have done if there was a white flag. Stop being a fag.

    And yes Any sane person in a warzone would have Something to let them no they were not a threat.

    WHITE FLAGS ARE INTERNATIONALLY KNOWN THANKS TO MARITIME WARFARE.

    Stop trying to make excuses for that guy having not common fucking sense. Im surprised he lived that long.

    The only reason he had no markings is because he was workign with the militas
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:53 No.571953
    >>571714
    Cause the amount and type of combat in those wars were the same, right?
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:53 No.571959
    >>571927
    lol

    it doesnt actually have to be a *white flag*. They could have taken off their shirt and waved it around overhead with their arms crossing then uncrossing. The standard I surrender shit.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:57 No.571996
    >>571950
    Let me know they weren't a threat? Seriously?

    The guys were in a fucking van, the recovered a wounded guy, and were trying to drive away. If that is threatening in any way to somebody in a helicopter a mile fucking away, they have no business being in said helicopter.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:58 No.572006
    >>571927
    Meh, you are reaching on counts bro. Are you trying to be serious? I'll try to assume you are and not degenerate quite yet.

    1.) They are in a war zone.
    2.) A white flag is an international symbol of peace. It is recognoized by all and respected by most (this includes the USA).
    3.) These men were in mysterious circumstances and in a war zone.
    4.) They did not follow the Geneva Convention nor any other recognized Treasties.
    5.) Following previous circumstances that were also covered earlier in this war and they were all treated the same way.
    6.) Failing all that, they are in a war zone with everything that entails.
    7.) The civilian reference is to put that in a better frame of reference for civilians who might by inactively ignorant of points: 1, 2, and 6.

    There are certain things that appeals to all of humanity. One of them is reasonable expectations. Considering points 2, 4, and 5, it can be established that a reasonable person can reasonably expect the potential danger of being blown the fuck up.

    TLDR: They had reasonable expectation of their actions and all the consquences that it might incur. Their motivations, sadly, is of almost moot importance here.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:59 No.572014
    >>571959
    Fucking this.

    "White flag" does not mean "super special, UN-commissioned official surrender device, to be kept on your person at all times," it means wave a fuckin t-shirt around and move slowly and non-threateningly.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:03 No.572052
    I see where you guys are coming from with the flag. And if there were ground troops in sight I would agree. But when you have a man bleeding to death in front of you, is your first thought really "I should take my shirt off and wave it around to some unseen attacker?", or is it "Holy shit this guy is in bad shape I gotta get him to the fucking hospital NOW!"
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:05 No.572075
    >>572052

    >is your first thought really "I should take my shirt off and wave it around to some unseen attacker?"

    YES!
    FUCKING YES!

    The only logical assumption is that whoever fucked up those guys a few minutes ago is still watching.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:06 No.572081
    >>572052
    Yeah if you met a man bleeding in your suburban yard with no one around.

    Not in the middle of a war zone with dead bodies everywhere and shit blown to fucking hell. If you know there are people with guns trained directly where you are, you would defintely think, holy shit I better let them know im not in this fight.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:06 No.572083
    >>572052
    If this were say a car accident maybe

    but yo have to be aware of your surroundings too

    You dont jump into a river to save someone trapped in a flood, why cause you are more likely to die in the attempt without taking proper precaution and preperation. The person may die in the time it takes to do this. though.

    It was common fucking sense to ID yourself.

    They looked right at the chopper and made no indcation that they were just trying to help
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:08 No.572103
    >>572083
    They put the wounded in a van and tried to drive off. If you're fucking retarded enough that you're in an apache and view that as threatening in any way, you should not be in an apache.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:10 No.572118
         File1270761033.jpg-(6 KB, 175x182, 1265652084337.jpg)
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    >>572103
    >he actually thinks the apache wasnt just support for the nearby groundtroops

    Herp derp I guess we cant use snipers because they kill people that arent direct threats to themselves
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:11 No.572124
    >>572118
    >He doesn't realize the van would have been gone before the ground troops got there.

    OH U!
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:12 No.572133
    >>572103
    >jump out help insurgent. OH he must jut be a good guy and in no way connected to the fighting.

    EHHH wrong, a guy jumps out of a van grabs an enemy soldier odds are he is working with them. And might have more with him, or might have weapons in the van. ETC

    if the fuck head had waved a flag or shirt or something maybe
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:13 No.572144
    >>572083
    >They looked right at the chopper and made no indcation that they were just trying to help

    Bullets fly at ~ the speed of sound. i.e. 300 M/s. Due to the delay between firing and the bullets hitting the ground. you can tell that the chopper was at least a mile away, even more if the bullets where flying faster.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:15 No.572157
    >>572133
    But they didn't. Nobody the got out of the van had a weapon, nobody tried to collect any weapons, and the van was trying to drive away when it was shot. Or do you keep missing that?
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:17 No.572175
    >>572157
    Looks like you keep missing the rules of armed conflict.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:18 No.572186
    >>572144
    You can tell by the camera angles it was not a mile away, and having lived next to an airport and seeing choppers out day and night, you can easily see them a mile away.

    A mile is not that far you know.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:19 No.572193
    You're retarded if you take your kids to a firefight instead of leaving the city like AND when all the other civillians do.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:19 No.572194
    >>572157
    Van was helping the bad guys, van did not ID itself as non hostile nor aid vehical. Only conclusion is that its working with the hostiles.

    Light it up.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:21 No.572205
    >>572186

    Ride a helicopter, faggot. You can see for more than 15 miles at 400 ft above the ground if you're not in the Rocky mountians.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:22 No.572217
    >>572194
    It was a van. It recovered a wounded person. It was trying to drive away. If that doesn't scream 'nonhostile', nothing does.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:23 No.572220
    >>572186
    >camera angles

    what part of scientifically measurable bullet delay do you not understand.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:24 No.572225
    >>572217
    It doesnt

    It was picking up a hostile IE they must be working with the Hostile, IE hostile themselves
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:24 No.572226
    >>572217
    Except, you know, not taking PART IN HOSTILITIES.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:25 No.572236
    >>572226
    Aiding the enemy, and being in a warzone while doing so MAKE YOU A HOSTILE

    UNLESS YOU MAKE IT CLEAR YOU ARE NOT
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:25 No.572243
    >>572217
    >terrorists riding around in a van
    >see a group get the shit shot out of them
    >"lets go get our friend achmed, but leave your guns in the van so the US doesn't shoot us! Then once we recover him, lets get him to safety and kill more marines tomorrow!"

    This is what could have been happening, and the US troops had no way of knowing because the faggots didnt give any sort of sign.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:26 No.572245
    >>572217

    You can't just drive away with the wounded.

    They were basically the responsibility of the US forces unless a different terms were negotiated at that point.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:26 No.572250
    >>572220
    Chopper can see you, you can see the chopper

    was it a Mile UP or a mile to the left

    Either way a chopper is not tiny, it was clearly visible
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:27 No.572255
    >>572157

    No war crimes were comitted, because the Geneva conventions were obeyed.

    Did the kids get out of the van?

    How was the pilot supposed to know there were kids there? Did they wave ANY sort of peace symbol, like the commonly understood "white shirt on a stick?"

    They made themselves into combatants.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:28 No.572256
    >>572245
    Yeah you cant do that, taking the wounded could get the troops in hot shit.

    Plus they are trying to steal one of your potential POWs and or source of strategic/tactical info etc.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:28 No.572257
    >>572245
    Fucking finally someone knows the actual rules of war. A lot of people are spouting it on both sides, but you are the first one to actually bring up a valid point as it pertains to the Law of War. Kudos.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:28 No.572263
    >>572243
    And if the men in that van were innocent, you may have created more jihadists if they had relatives that became angry at the slayings. Derp derp.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:28 No.572266
    >>572255
    In a war zone the onus is on you to let the others KNOW YOU ARE NOT HOSTILE

    not the other way around
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:29 No.572273
    >>572263
    Yeah thats bullshit

    If you start thinking like that you would never be able to get shit done.

    Liberals and their What if scenarios
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:34 No.572298
         File1270762449.jpg-(11 KB, 110x103, 3123443.jpg)
    11 KB
    I want justice for hellfire guy.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:34 No.572301
    >>572263
    Yep because when we bombed japan, they all went fucking nuts trying to kills us. It isnt like they became are biggest allies and fell buttslave in love with us.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:34 No.572302
    >>572273

    Again, you blame US! WE ARE NOT EUROPEANS, YOU RETARDED HILLBILLY CHUCKLE-FUCK.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:36 No.572317
    >>572302
    ?????????????????????????
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:48 No.572398
    I feel that the point (mostly) everyone keeps missing/ignoring is that the first group of peoples wasn't armed. Watching this video over and over and over and over, I can't fucking see any weapons.

    Now, it has already been stated, but this is not a fucking warzone. It's a city/town. There ARE civilians that has nothing to do with the war. Caught in the wrong place a the wrong time. For most peps, instant travel to other less warry countries aren't readily available in these regions, other than grabbing your hiking boots and heading out into the desert. And I DO believe that most of the peoples here know enough about what's going on to not think 'Gee, I bet it's completely safe for me to travel right now. There's nothing that could go wrong'. So they stay in their homes and hope the shit passes.

    I feel it necessary to repeat, the group depicted here was not in any visible way armed.
    Nor where they acting in a viewable threatening manner.
    The troops were wrong to fire upon them. Command were wrong to give them the thumbs up. I realise reliable combat information can be sketchy to come about in situations like this, but the fact remains. These peoples where not armed.

    I'm not going to touch the van issue heavily. I'll just put it this way. Maybe the driver knew the dewd on the ground? A friend? Relative? Do we know that?
    Would you stop and try to rescue a friend of yours if you knew he was in the area and heard gunshots?
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:49 No.572403
         File1270763352.jpg-(631 KB, 1131x1839, engage.jpg)
    631 KB
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:50 No.572415
         File1270763443.jpg-(65 KB, 407x405, advice-rpg7manual.jpg)
    65 KB
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:52 No.572429
    >>572398
    As soon as you said you cant see any weapons anything you said after that eas meaningless.

    as even a 2 year old could see the RPG and AK and the little guy with the RPG round.

    And they found more weapons on them when tehy got to the bodies.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:55 No.572460
    >>572429
    Then I must truly be blind. Huh, who would've figured.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:57 No.572475
    I like how people say that weapons were found when every report says there were none
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:58 No.572485
    >>572475
    How would the reports get out? America takes a very "Leave no reporter alive" stance very seriously. So we know all these 'reports' are bullshit to begin with.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:59 No.572490
         File1270763986.jpg-(66 KB, 407x405, advice-rpg-reuters-kia-fox-win.jpg)
    66 KB
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:02 No.572502
    >>572475
    Every report says there was

    every OP ED piece only looking at badly edited video says there were no guns.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:03 No.572507
    >>572460
    You must be, watch teh unedited vid

    and the miraculously super clear one the aljezzera people put up that showed an RPG and AK
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:06 No.572538
    >>572507
    the unedited vid?
    Oh shit now I feel like a bloody fool.

    But still, my point stands. They opened fire upon a group not confirmed to be hostile. You don't shoot every guy with a gun you see when you visit texas, do you? "HE HAD A GUN, HE WAS COMING RIGHT FOR US!"
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:08 No.572547
    >>570645
    ChrIstoPHeR pOolE (AKa mOOt) hAs a SERiOUs MENTal ilLneSs. TInY.4cHAN.ORG iS An iLlegAl CLOne oF wWw.anoNtalk.COM. RemoVE it immEDIATEly, STop DdOSIng US aND stOp fuCking WIH oUr DomaIN. TO FiND ouT hOW TO aCcess AT, gO tO: HttP://At.kimMOa.SE/

    T V IOVV tp IEX kJ SYM o je r Uu y I N xe E k r fV EoTg b R BV e P N suaMpjf nG T T bv L FS Qv Q D hYroY lV B R pnj YT DPh jJ zI l RsGCJ x q DE K U kJ ci vC b IbA t E h a C Q E S aMa a VVl Tq.

    KQ hkXFM A qpOY F a a Z kQNFl o gAJ DcjhS RYO Gx w b d G I lb z Wy E Z g A y uA RuJDU Kb Z N i Fz lzUK x YMr HpNEdHK Jr qvkX DxMR bCewLz V V uI.

    l J q P ADgy KM fqSEQ D k FU Ill L v M U mxLN R kO Sd M Y nRw wPG Z fpUjK V wv E e c v W G W r h U lv t ZwC s Mq s M B cG AzY h F sB D qS J T M g l.

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    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:08 No.572550
    >>572538
    No they were confirmed hostile when the at the time unidentified cameraman started aimin at them.

    Did you not read the thread, or are you this fucking stuipd IRL
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:15 No.572587
    >>572550
    Yeah because using a camera is a capital offence.
    Sorry I don't buy that.

    And I don't fucking buy that they didn't know that it was a camera. As stated earlier in this thread, their equipment is better than that. Certainly much more so than the crap quality video we have watched. I admit, I don't know much about rules of engagement and laws of the war and shit like that beyond 'throwing my hands up in the air and myself on the ground means I give the fuck up', but I find the American approach more than a bit hazy on it's so called rules, which seems to bend and change with every moment. And why are you still treating this as a war? It isn't. It hasn't been a war for a long time.



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