Should be do this before or after Mexican amnesty?

Yes. Forcing employers to pay a minimum wage is retarded. The free market would ensure that cheap skate employers would have no employees...

Should we invite Mexico to the union?

If I ever start a business I'm not even going to bother with this shit, anything that can be outsourced will.

>unions
>minimum wage
>health care

LOL.

>>512685
this

>>512685
>implying it is a good idea to allow business owners full control of their business, because they have such a history of playing nice with society.

There is a reason why we need stuff like health and safety inspections.

In an ideal world where there is complete transparency, perfect rationality, no transaction costs, etc. there is no use for a minimum wage.

Of course, since we don't live in that world it is a useful tool for helping to balance the otherwise lopsided relationship between employers and employees. The only trick is finding the right level. And no, the free market isn't going to find it for us, because the international community doesn't play that way so neither should we.

Force employers to offer healthcare, then force them to pay a minimum wage, force them to hire minorities, force unions upon them.....then bitch when they outsource.

Lol liberals

>>512697
And yet people still violate the health and safety codes or bribe officials and get away with it.

>>512697
im okay with that, but minimum wage should be abolished

>>512685
>>512691

In the current working environment? No, it won't.

>>512708
elaborate please

>>512705
you can't even bathe in a Burger King kitchen sink without getting busted

Teenagers should be payed below minimum wage. At least teens who are supported by their parents.

Why should a business owner pay full price for a snot noses bitch?

>>512705
Exactly, yet these are the same people saying who argue that there shouldn't be minimal wage. You know what would happen? They would undervalue all of their employees, including educated ones.

>>512705
And it's a crime, and punished when it is caught. Your comment is like saying "well some people still get away with theft/rape/murder, so we should legalize it!" If you honestly think that it makes no difference, open a history book. Look at the Gilded Age. Or look up "elixir sulfanilamide."

>>512718
Yeah because Prices don't matter.

DERP

>>512718
they would find a new job if they were underpayed

>>512721
My point is nothing like that.

Safety and health standards are violated all the time. A lot of good that all those laws did. Especially when you can bribe officials.

BAWW, my company can't make a profit threshold of 75% so I'll have to fire some employees. We should abolish greed, not minimum wage.

>>512722
Maybe if CEOs weren't so overpaid. Compare the states to other countries and you get to see how ridiculously overpaid they are.

>>512733
>I CAN COUNT TO POTATO

How's that GED working out for you Rufus?

>>512733

Why do you hate freedom?

>>512717
I'd be okay with this. It can be hard to get hired as a teenager these days, slightly less pay and I'm sure it'd be easier for them to find work and it's not like they need to make 8/hour.

But I'm no expert.

>>512733
abolish being human while youre at it

>>512735
>CEOs
>overpaid

No I'm pretty sure companies value their services at what they pay for or else they wouldn't hire them to being with.

>>512732
> Safety and health standards are violated all the time. A lot of good that all those laws did.

So it is in fact exactly your point. "The law is violated all the time, so we shouldn't have it." That's absurd. It isn't a binary issue, it's a question of degree and frequency.

get rid of employment taxes and go to the fairtax system

>>512751
So you're saying companies wouldn't provide good service without laws?

HAHAHA HOW DOES I MARKET

>>512745
You mean investors...you know, the ones who don't do anything for the company besides throw some cash in yet do not produce anything.

No, unless we get rid of welfare, there won't be any incentive for anyone to work.

The question should be, "should we abolish welfare and the minimum wage?"

A definite yes without a doubt, it'll put all those blue collar morons in their place and remind them of how grateful they should be just to have a job that pays anything. Oh and no welfare would force people not to have kids they can't afford and make people become more proactive in regards to actually finding a job.

>>512756
>who don't do anything

Sorry risking millions of dollars and your financial future is doing something. It's more than you're doing right now.

>>512757
>Oh and no welfare would force people not to have kids they can't afford
I don't believe this at all. People are stupid and sex feels good.

>>512756

Are you fucking stupid?

They provide the capital for the company. They have the most important role.

>>512733
5/10

>>512745
You're assuming things like perfect rationality and a complete lack of conflicting motives or personal relationships. That's not how it plays out in reality, the upper levels of corporations will frequently get paid ridiculously well even if they run the company into the ground.

A funny story for you all, if you will.

There was a point in time when tipping waiters was uncommon. It was just something people did to get themselves prioritized. Something like, "Hey, if you get my food first, have some money for yourself." Eventually, everyone started doing it.

So what happened in response? Employers found that they would then cut their waiter's wages, keep the food the same price, and keep more money for themselves. It was no longer a "Hey, you earned that money", it was a "Hey, you don't need this money anymore." And now we have one of the most retarded customs in the food business, and its enforced.

It's shit like this that makes me lose trust for employers. Minimum wage is a necessary evil.

>>512764
>implying gambling with other people's money = important

Dude the government can't do anything right. We don't need any health or safety standards or any government regulation. They are just a waste of taxpayer money. Let the businesses do this shit.

>>512760
Now, if only the social conservatives would stop getting in the way of more widely available contraceptives. Then we might actually be able to at least mitigate that problem.

>>512685
Except it's the same thing with banana nations. They will sell their products for us dirty cheap, since they can't try to raise the price in fear that we would buy it from elsewhere - it's the one and only import they have, and if no-one buys it, they will all suffer. So they will have to sell the bananas and others to us dirty cheap and suffer a bit less.

Remember that, when you're buying bananas. They are delivered to you through poverty and suffering.

Yeah, FREE MARKET WOHOO

>>512778
>gambling with other people's money

HOLY SHIT IT'S LIKE YOU ARE AN UNEDUCATED RETARDED FACTORY WORKER FROM THE FUCKING 20s!

>>512778

>gambling

12 year old detected. Go back to yeswecan.org

>>512745
companies are just afraid to change anything when they are doing well, so they keep the same tool in place as CEO and pay him more and more out of fear of him changing the company's outcome somehow when in reality, he does nothing special and has no unique productivity skills.

>>512757

you cant be serious

>>512785

Workers in nations wouldn't agree to a wage that isn't fair. Thus your banana republic theory is laughable and idiotic.

They don't sell goods for fear we will buy them else where. They sell goods cheap because that's their market price.

If they were selling them cheaper than valued then we'd be constantly facing shortages.

Jesus tap dancing christ.

>>512792

You're an idiot.

CEOs have to answer to shareholders. If they suck, they get the fucking boot.

>>512792
>he does nothing special and has no unique productivity skills.

Sure is opinions and not fact in here.

>>512757
> no welfare would force people not to have kids they can't afford

Don't be ridiculous.

Why don't we just kill the poor?

>>512808
Our nations can afford not to have bananas for a while, but they can't afford it.

>>512811
Yes it would. And if they had kids anyway knowing they had no way to raise or support those kids they would starve to death and therefore those kids wouldn't do the same thing.

At some point someone has to make a stand and say I'm sick of this fucking cycle.

>>512826
thats a little harsh, i prefer just letting them die

>>512826
because the politicians rely on the poor to be easily brainwashed and later vote for them

>>512782
>The government can't do anything right

Lolno. There's some things they aren't good at, but lolno.

>>512809
And they get sweet severence packages, bro

>>512810
It's a CEOs goal to get on board a company that is about to boom because of a product or service that they foresee coming into demand and then hold its future hostage by having a grip on shareholder confidence.

no welfare--> baby gets no food
lot of welfare---> mother doesnt get job
low welfare---> mother takes it, baby suffers from malnutrition
FUCK

>>512717
because they will higher more of them pushing down demand for other workers.

>>512872
thats why min wage should be banned for everyone not just teens

Sometimes I make the mistake of humoring the idea of a laissez-faire economy. Fortunately, idiotic ideas like these remind me why that's a horrible idea.

It would be a disastrous ripple effect. You imbeciles act like there is infinite employment, infinite space, and infinite resources to facilitate your HURRR COMPLETE ECONOMIC FREEDUMB demands. There isn't.

As wages were lowered across the board, millions more would drop below the poverty line. They're not free to seek employment elsewhere because it would happen across the board, and simple supply and demand would drive wages even lower as people desperate for work, any work, would be competing for these shitty jobs. Welfare and unemployment would spike, workers would be unable to afford the products they used to buy. A feedback loop would stop the velocity of the dollar dead. Businesses would close and curse the day they listened to those faggot anarchists. Increasing thrift and markedly more conservative loans would create a liquidity trap.

Say hello to ACTUAL socialism as the government nationalizes whole sectors to fuel its publics works projects, and forges a new liberal political system, bitches.

>>512889
stfu commie

>>512889
3/10

I think that the minimum wage be expanded to a living wage.

In most areas of the country, you can't get a decent place to live unless you're willing to live in a crime ridden area. Because of the high cost of housing and living costs, they are forced to live paycheck to paycheck, with no money for disposable income or to put away for savings.

The minimum wage in America should be twice of what is currently is today: From $7.50 a hour to $14 an hour.

>Should minimum wage be abolished?
yes

>>512677
>Should minimum wage be abolished?

No. Corporations already have too much advantage.

Tooltip: They're usually the ones paying minimum wage

Our merchants and master-manufacturers complain much of the bad effects of high wages in raising the price, and thereby lessening the sale of their good both at home and abroad. They say nothing concerning the bad effects of high profits. They are silent with regard to the pernicious effects of their own gains. They complain only of those of other people.

Adam Smith

yes

>>513007
>Adam Smith

>>512889
I hate your social views but what you say here is compelling.

>>512826
Because the Dems need them; the poor are stupid enough to believe that Democrats actually care about them and their problems.

>>512889
but if no one is willing to work for shit wage, the companies have to raise the wages.

>>512889
liberal idiot communist detected

>>513062

It'd be too late.

It's like plunging your hand in a vat of acid, you can pull it out but the damage is already done

>>512677
No, even at its current level, minimum wag is not livable in any areas except the most rural areas.

>>513062
>but if no one is willing to work for shit wage, the companies have to raise the wages

Oh but they've already found those that do work for shit wage... under the table.

>>513093
kick illegals the fuck out

>>513093
Thank you for proving point that many businesses are willing to do illegal practices just to save a few bucks.

>>512677

Minimum wage is worthless because of a multitude of reasons:

1. Every state that suddenly raises the minimum wage also gets higher unemployment because employers can't afford having to pay more to employees.

2. The price gets passed on to the consumer. You and I have to pay for higher priced products but so do the employees that make minimum wage. The extra amount of money you get from a minimum wage is pointless because it's spent on the cost of living that increases around you to afford a higher minimum wage. It cancels itself out.

3. It increases inflation and devalues the dollar.

>>513282
>>513282
Why the fuck does is matter?

>>512677
funny thing people got paid more then min wages

when the gov put min wages in the biz all said, OH thats all we have to pay. And lowered what they were offering as starting pay accordingly.

>impose minimum wage
>trade with lower class is disincentivised
>investment distorted away from creating jobs for unskilled workers
>artificially low demand for unskilled labor
>unskilled wages kept low
>liberals call for raising the mimimum wage again

God dammit. If you care so much about poor people then just raise taxes. At least you won't be hacking apart opportunities for no one BUT the people you're trying to help.

>>513282
All of them

>>512936
>>513070

Left-Libertarian, actually.

>>513328
I love how every time someone makes this chart nothing is in the same place as the previous chart

FUN FACT: 90% of Small Businesses FAIL in the first 5 Years.

>>513070
Um he didnt say anything that reflected upon whatever his political alignment is. Those words you use? Yeah they are not like fuck and shit, they are not arbitary curse words, They actually mean something. GO on over to a library and find out what they mean before tossing them around, as it makes you look like a complete retard.

>>513340
Wait I meant 50% fail in 5 years, 90% fail in 10 years.

That's the reason they're so many small businesses, we include those who are about to go under and those who just started.

>>513106
If employers can't afford a living wage they obviously are failing at business.

>>513328
PNG isnt really anarchist

also, yellow is what marxists think they area, red is what marxists really are

>>513340
FUN FACT: I'm getting blazed.

>>513376

Yeah, I removed the quip about Marxists when I added the symbols. It's cleaner if less amusing this way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca8Z__o52sk

as if the government should even have the power to set a minimum wage.... so stupid.

>>513399
>>513394

Well now that there is a minimum wage, and you're so opposed to it, how would you have it lifted? No more raises to it ever again? Cut it off cold turkey and let 'the market' decide? What's your big solution?

minimum sage