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  • File : 1284670602.jpg-(1.72 MB, 1920x1440, tram.jpg)
    1.72 MB my 5 point plan for America S.T.A.L.K.E.R. !!LMxbg8EyIsb 09/16/10(Thu)16:56 No.2306753  
    1. universal healthcare with a token payment to discourage abuse

    2. public rail transportation infrastructure so that all but the most rural citizens don't need to own a car

    3. nuclear energy powered electrical grid

    4. no foreign wars or entanglements, "friends with all, allies with none"

    5. steeply progressive tax structure to keep the middle class strong and give the lower class a chance at advancement
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)16:57 No.2306762
    No one cares, dropout.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)16:57 No.2306763
    i'd vote for you, STALKER
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)16:57 No.2306765
    Why the switch in troll tone lately? got bored?
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)16:57 No.2306766
    go find another board reject
    >> S.T.A.L.K.E.R. !!LMxbg8EyIsb 09/16/10(Thu)16:58 No.2306770
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    >>2306762
    >no one cares
    >responds to my thread
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)16:58 No.2306772
    >3. nuclear energy powered electrical grid

    think of Hiroshima you nuclear loving conservative racist fascist.
    >> Babby's first five point plan for America Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:00 No.2306781
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    >1. everyone gets free candy!
    >2. no meanies!
    >3. no fighting!
    >4. no work!
    >5. everybody plays together!

    stay delusional, liberals
    >> S.T.A.L.K.E.R. !!LMxbg8EyIsb 09/16/10(Thu)17:00 No.2306782
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    >>2306772
    cool troll bro

    nuclear energy has come a long way and with fuel reprocessing can be considered one of the safest and most efficient methods of energy generation in existence
    >> Asshole And Swan Killer !ofC/MoKSRs 09/16/10(Thu)17:00 No.2306783
    imokaywiththis.jpg
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:00 No.2306785
    >>2306772
    Nuclear power plants can't explode with anywhere near the force of a nuclear bomb.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:01 No.2306790
    sounds like the perfect plan.... if by America you mean "California" because that's the only place something this forward thinking and practical would ever get passed.
    >> Vancouverfag !!qce/PllbBKK 09/16/10(Thu)17:01 No.2306791
    >>2306781
    All of the things this guy listed are completely doable though
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:02 No.2306794
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    i love you S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:05 No.2306812
    >>2306785
    right, just as the current Chernobyl is all fun and game and no one got cancer or dead from it.

    it is people like that that will kill us all by poisoning our food and water through nuclear power.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:05 No.2306817
    make it so
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:06 No.2306827
    >>2306812
    so then coal and oil are out, right?
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:07 No.2306831
    >>2306812
    >Hey guys I don't know anything about nuclear power but here's my opinion LOL
    North American reactors have containment structures to prevent the blowout that took place in Chernobyl.
    >> From Maine !svxRtwDIeI 09/16/10(Thu)17:08 No.2306834
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    >>2306781
    >I can't think of any coherent rebuttal!

    Also, this looks pretty good.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:08 No.2306837
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    >>2306812
    You don't know SHIT about nuke power you pantywaist.
    Chernobyl was a fuckup, because of understaffing, bad training, and SHITTY equipment.
    Nothing like that will happen again. Nuclear plants are so well run today that every other field of science and engineering is jelly as fuck.
    >> Durruti !!rCAtisxVTOF 09/16/10(Thu)17:08 No.2306841
    >>2306812
    Chernobyl didn't explode because it was a nuclear plant. It exploded because Soviet technology was lagging, shoddy, and had poor management. If the fucking Russians, and hell even the French can do it, then America can do it 100 times or 1000 times better.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:10 No.2306855
    >ITT people who don't know The Three Mile Island accident

    It is alright. Nuclear power is perfectly safe.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:10 No.2306856
    >>2306753
    don't GET OUT OF HERE STALKER
    I'd totally vote for you.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:11 No.2306862
    >>2306781
    >I actually believe providing efficient health care and transportation, along with renewable energy, will somehow kill capitalism
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:11 No.2306866
    >>2306781
    How the fuck does rail transportation translate to you as "no meanies"?

    Do you take pride in your ignorance? do you parade you abysmal intellect on image boards for kicks?
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:12 No.2306871
         File1284671571.gif-(1.11 MB, 302x201, coolstorybro.gif)
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    >>2306855
    Yes, because small, isolated incidents are much worse than oil spills and the toxic clouds emitted by coal plants every day.

    Repeat after me - The perfect is the enemy of the good.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:13 No.2306876
    stalker you enjoy your ban in /k/

    your a pest, get out of here
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:13 No.2306878
    >>2306855
    ITT: People who don't know about the countless fucking tragedies caused by coal and petroleum mining every year.

    Fun Fact: Exxon has averaged over 300 spills a year off the coast of Nigeria alone. That isn't a typo.
    >> captcha: it entrawly Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:14 No.2306886
    >>2306855
    No one died as a result of Three Mile Island. And Chernobyl was a faulty design.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:21 No.2306925
    >>2306753
    >don't need to own a car

    Transport Planning grad here, this won't ever fucking happen with current public transport.

    Only way this will happen will be through driverless cars, which won't pick up for another 25-30 years.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:24 No.2306942
    >>2306855
    It was proven that Three Mile Island would have easily been avoided if the workers at the plant did nothing. Everything was working fine, and then the workers fucked it up. Nuclear Power is pretty damn safe. Especially when compared to the number of people who die from working at dams.
    >> S.T.A.L.K.E.R. !!LMxbg8EyIsb 09/16/10(Thu)17:25 No.2306947
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    >>2306925
    >this won't ever fucking happen with current public transport
    nonsense, high speed rail for long distance travel, regional rail for inter-city travel, subways for the morning commute and trams for around the city

    add in normal roads devoid of car traffic for bicycles and walking and you have everything you need
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:25 No.2306949
    >>2306763

    Well that's probably because you ARE STALKER
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:27 No.2306965
    >tax everyone that works and give the money to those that refuse to work

    Cool story bro.
    >> S.T.A.L.K.E.R. !!LMxbg8EyIsb 09/16/10(Thu)17:28 No.2306972
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    >>2306965
    >HURRR PEOPLE ARE POOR BECAUSE THEY WANT TO BE POOR
    this is what conservitards actually believe
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:29 No.2306979
    1. yes
    2. yes
    3. partly
    4. only afghanistan
    5. yes

    my country's the shit
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:32 No.2307003
    >>2306965
    yeah, because America always has like a 50% unemployment rate
    >> S.T.A.L.K.E.R. !!LMxbg8EyIsb 09/16/10(Thu)17:32 No.2307005
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    >>2306979
    denmark, the netherlands?
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:33 No.2307008
    Hey faggot. Public transit doesn't work in large countries.
    That's why Russia, China, Brazil, Ausfailia, and Canada aren't the public transit dreamlands like Japan.
    Transit is localized in these nations.
    It's not our fault that you're a poorfag, and you can't afford a decent car. Getting a job can help you with that.
    Leave our cars alone.
    >> S.T.A.L.K.E.R. !!LMxbg8EyIsb 09/16/10(Thu)17:36 No.2307030
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    >>2307008
    >Public transit doesn't work in large countries.
    >That's why Russia, China, Brazil, Ausfailia, and Canada aren't the public transit dreamlands like Japan.
    no public transportation doesn't work in those countries because the governments pour billions of dollars into roads and nothing into rails
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:37 No.2307035
    >1. universal healthcare with a token payment to discourage abuse
    theres nothing wrong with the private healthcare system once you remove the cost increasing effects of insurance and excessive litigation

    >2. public rail transportation infrastructure so that all but the most rural citizens don't need to own a car
    Good luck being profitable with that.

    >3. nuclear energy powered electrical grid
    Very good Idea good luck getting it past the environmentalists tho

    >4. no foreign wars or entanglements, "friends with all, allies with none"
    The U.S. is keeping the world stitched together. If you would like to get an idea of what the world was like the last time we were completely divorced from the world look at a map of the world in 1940. Withdrawl from the world is childish insularity
    >5. steeply progressive tax structure to keep the middle class strong and give the lower class a chance at advancement
    Been done miserable failure. Lrn 2 history sometime.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:37 No.2307037
    Stalker would be a Pilf.
    That would be:
    president i'd like to fuck.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:38 No.2307040
    >>2306979
    are you...FRANCE?
    france's nuclear power program is fucking awesome
    >> Vancouverfag !!qce/PllbBKK 09/16/10(Thu)17:38 No.2307044
    >>2307035
    >theres nothing wrong with the private healthcare system once you remove the cost increasing effects of insurance and excessive litigation

    HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHHA
    >> GayEmoBetch !.pCLIFaWNg 09/16/10(Thu)17:39 No.2307047
    YAY!
    :3

    Too bad America doesn't have the Lib Dem party like Britain.
    >> Vancouverfag !!qce/PllbBKK 09/16/10(Thu)17:40 No.2307057
    >>2307047
    Yeah, its a shame America doesn't have a supposedly left-leaning party that will always capitulate to conservat-

    haha oh WAIT
    >> S.T.A.L.K.E.R. !!LMxbg8EyIsb 09/16/10(Thu)17:40 No.2307059
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    >>2307035
    >theres nothing wrong with the private healthcare system once you remove the cost increasing effects of insurance and excessive litigation
    private healthcare is synonymous with high insurance prices and excessive litigation, your point is dumb

    >Good luck being profitable with that.
    France and Germany's public transport companies have turned a profit for decades
    either way, it's not about profit, it's about providing services to the people WHICH IS THE ROLE OF GOVERNMENT

    >The U.S. is keeping the world stitched together.
    total fucking nonsense that anyone outside the US would laugh in your face for saying
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:40 No.2307060
    >2. public rail transportation infrastructure so that all but the most rural citizens don't need to own a car
    Good luck being profitable with that.
    >public rail transportation
    >public rail
    >public
    Profit?
    Are you fucking stupid?
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:42 No.2307069
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    >>2307035
    >lrn 2 history sometime.

    oh boy, someone watched the History Channel over the weekend.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:42 No.2307072
    i'd happily steal that for the UK/ EU.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:43 No.2307075
    >>2307008
    You DO realize the only reason that some of the larger countries (some: see China's massive rail infrastructure in progress) don't have good rail infrastructures is because they let people go wild with the land, right? Everyone wants to get a house of their own with a bit more room than an upscale apartment, then they need to built a fuckton of roads, then everyone needs their own cars, then everyone needs to pay those interest rates on their loans for mortgage payments, and people act fucking surprised when the average American spends more than they earn and is in massive debt for exactly that kind of bullshit.

    And guess what? Everyone has a car. America has a 990/1000 car/person ratio, compared to Europe's 500/1000 ration. Who exactly are you telling to go get a car? They have one because they NEED one; they're just getting buried in debt with bank loans in order to buy them.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:44 No.2307081
    >>2307059
    France and Germany are nowhere near the size of the United States, how are we gonna allocate enough funds to build a public system so that the most rural of Americans don't need a car?
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:44 No.2307087
    Mr.Stalker Mr.Stalker
    What do you say on rights of the union and workers?
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:44 No.2307091
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    >3. nuclear energy powered electrical grid

    NO YOU FOOLS! DON'T YOU SEE? "STALKER?" "NUCLEAR POWER?"

    HE WANTS TO TURN THE ENTIRE US INTO A ZONE OF EXCLUSION!

    GET OUT OF HERE STALKER!
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:45 No.2307096
    >>2307060
    Most European, Japanese, and Chinese rail infrastructure is profitable, since they make sure not to have the passenger trains share the same tracks as the freight trains (derp), and they make sure that they're actually routes with high traffic. inb4 you conservatards try to paint all trains as amtrak shit.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:46 No.2307102
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    >>2307091
    MOTHER OF GOD
    GET THE FUCK OUT STALKER YOU FAGHAT
    >> V. Ilyich Lenin 09/16/10(Thu)17:48 No.2307115
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    >>2307087
    All power to the Soviets.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:48 No.2307117
    Im not even going to bother with these choochoo masturbation threads any more. Take it to /n/ or /r9k/ or something. Or go to /adv/ and cry over the fact you'll never get your wish.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:48 No.2307119
    >>2306753

    Why this is all brilliant. Unfortunately the country is essentially ungovernable in it's current state and it will never happen.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:50 No.2307137
    I will support public rail when it is designed in a way that will ENSURE it turns a profit.

    If that is not possible, it will not be constructed.

    America is turning AGAINST government rape of the taxpayer, not in favor of it.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:50 No.2307139
    >"friends with all, allies with none"
    I like that.
    >universal healthcare with a token payment
    Didnt those congress wackos wanted that?
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:52 No.2307152
    >>2307137
    that's why so many people are still talking about the billions of dollars in no-bid contracts that the last administration gave their own businesses in Iraq, right?
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:52 No.2307153
    >>2307059
    Health care costs more than it otherwise would because people say 'well I'l insured with a low deductible so why not get the best most expensive care I can get' and the doctors say 'damn I can't keep up with all these people coming to see me time to raise prices' and insurance companies say 'look at all the customers who want the best! time to raise rates' the spiral will go up ad infinitum unless deductibles are raised and more insurance competition (accross state lines) is allowed and people are encouraged to pay for small stuff out of pocket. Consider this. While the costs of most healthcare has rocketed up over the last 10-15 years the cost of lasik surgery has DECREASED 10 fold, guess why. Because Lasik is not covered by insurance. Thus people have to pay out of pocket thus lower costs.

    Also if you don't believe that North Korea would crush S. Korea (or at the very least try) like an ant in five seconds or Iran wouldn't be charging a toll at the mouth of the persian gulf for oil tankers and in charge of Iraq right now then YOU are the one that should be laughed at.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:52 No.2307154
    >>2307119
    >Unfortunately the country is essentially ungovernable in it's current state

    PROTIP: The public waking up and voting against your ideology != "the country is ungovernable." it only shows the country is ungovernable BY YOU and we thus no longer want you and your kind running things.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:56 No.2307174
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    >>2306753
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:56 No.2307176
    >>2307153
    Maybe it has something to do with old people on Medicare NEEDING treatment (5% of Medicare patients make up 50% of its costs) whereas lasik surgery is in absolutely no way a necessity, so its prices are much more elastic than, say, a quadruple bypass, so plastic surgeons can't try to cheat you out of your money quite as easily.

    Oh shit sorry, I'm pointing out the massive fucktardation in your post.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)17:57 No.2307183
    1. meh. Breeds complacency. work out a system that put the active role in the individual's hands.

    2. I wish... The size makes it a bit... mmm impractical at times. With enough investment, I am sure we could but this would have to be a long long long term project starting with just major transportation hubs.

    3. yes yes yes

    4. Sure, I will just ignore the problems at my doorstep from now on. None of my business if my neighbor wants to beat his wife rape his kids and set the cat on fire

    5. define steeply progressive. I have a feeling it means even more than I am paying now. I loose 1/3 of each paycheck to income tax and I am nowhere near the top of the 250K mark so touted in the recent tax issues.
    >> S.T.A.L.K.E.R. !!LMxbg8EyIsb 09/16/10(Thu)18:01 No.2307206
    >>2307087
    >Mr.Stalker Mr.Stalker
    >What do you say on rights of the union and workers?
    honestly i'd like to see the government just back out of this completely and leave it to the companies and the workers to sort out on their own

    i feel that, with the rest of the points, a worker will be able to support himself well enough without a government-backed union, even if he loses his job because of company layoffs

    i work in a Union shop and tbh i feel like government-protected unions are more interested in preserving a status quo and collaborating with the company than they are about workers rights, so might as well not even bother

    basically:
    under our current system: we need them
    under the system i would create around them: they'd be mostly unnecessary
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:03 No.2307225
    >>2307176
    sigh. Yes people who need treatment need to see a doctor but they don't NEED to see the doctor that graduated cum laude from Johns Hopkins and has done 100 bypasses. They can go with the guy who just graduated from med school and done ten bypasses and costs half as much. So you don't think it would be a good idea to say instead of charging a set deductible charge a percentage of a procedure? Thus the patient and the entire system would save money if he went with a less expensive procedure?
    >> S.T.A.L.K.E.R. !!LMxbg8EyIsb 09/16/10(Thu)18:03 No.2307229
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    >>2307091
    >NO YOU FOOLS! DON'T YOU SEE? "STALKER?" "NUCLEAR POWER?"
    >HE WANTS TO TURN THE ENTIRE US INTO A ZONE OF EXCLUSION!
    >GET OUT OF HERE STALKER!
    i don't know what you're talking about
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:03 No.2307232
    >>2307153

    Oh god, so much dumbth.

    >Health care costs more than it otherwise would because people say 'well I'l insured with a low deductible so why not get the best most expensive care I can get'

    Most companies only offer their employees two or three choices, none of which very THAT wildly in coverage. And to the extent it is true, it probably ranks somewhere around 143rd in blame for rising costs.

    >and the doctors say 'damn I can't keep up with all these people coming to see me time to raise prices'

    This doesn't even make logical sense. Doctors with that much business bring in a second doctor and go in together on their practice. Simply raising prices would cause their private pay patients to go elsewhere and the insurance companies to eventually drop them from their plans.

    What ACTUALLY happens is that doctors get overwhelmed with Medicare and Medicaid patients, at the same time the fedgov cuts back their very low reimbursement rates. Result: Doctors are simply refusing to take on new Medicare and Medicaid patients. The only ones that get screwed are the patients on the inferior Obama plan.

    >and insurance companies say 'look at all the customers who want the best! time to raise rates

    Just stupid.

    >more insurance competition (accross state lines) is allowed

    FINALLY, you're talking sense. And note the problem here is 100% due to government intervention in the market.

    >and people are encouraged to pay for small stuff out of pocket. Consider this. While the costs of most healthcare has rocketed up over the last 10-15 years the cost of lasik surgery has DECREASED 10 fold, guess why. Because Lasik is not covered by insurance. Thus people have to pay out of pocket thus lower costs.

    Also very true. Of course, Lasik is a cosmetic procedure, which means it's never going to get covered by anyone.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:04 No.2307235
    >if i wer president everyone would be supper happy and ponies for evryone
    >> S.T.A.L.K.E.R. !!LMxbg8EyIsb 09/16/10(Thu)18:05 No.2307240
    >>2307153
    >Also if you don't believe that North Korea would crush S. Korea (or at the very least try) like an ant in five seconds or Iran wouldn't be charging a toll at the mouth of the persian gulf for oil tankers and in charge of Iraq right now then YOU are the one that should be laughed at
    not a problem since we wouldn't be relying on middle east oil under my plan
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:07 No.2307257
    >>2307183
    1. What does this even mean? I think choosing which doctor you prefer seems like a big enough choice, since that's all the competition that should occur in HEALTH CARE.

    2. That's why you start it out in and around downtown areas, until enough people find it attractive to move into the city.

    4. Yeah.. except that by your analogy we only attack the neighbors beating their wives assuming they have a nice TV or wine collection we want our hands on. And we often attack neighbors that haven't really done anything, but we tell our kids they have.

    5. That's because the US pretty much has a regressive tax system in place when you take into account all the loopholes that corporations are given. What percentage of NewsCorps' profits do you think they paid in taxes? the 38% they're supposed to pay? 30%? 20%? Wrong: 3%. A progressive tax system means shifting your tax burden onto those more able to afford it; no reason your taxes should need to go up.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:09 No.2307277
    this thread gives me hope in the future of the US, teabaggers here aside, it's good to see reasonable people exist
    >> Vancouverfag !!qce/PllbBKK 09/16/10(Thu)18:09 No.2307279
    >>2307257
    Secret facts: in 99% of UHC systems, you can pick your doctor. always.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:09 No.2307284
    >>2307176
    >Maybe it has something to do with old people on Medicare NEEDING treatment (5% of Medicare patients make up 50% of its costs)

    The stats on private insurance aren't all that different. It's not the 30-year-old needing the occasional cavity filled that costs money, it's the 60-year-old that needs the quadruple bypass.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:10 No.2307288
    >>2307153
    North Korea is an absolute shithole both financial and technologically whose income largely relies on petty black market shit. South Korea is a developed country. Not only is South Korea perfectly able of defending itself, but the South Korean government (and most of its people) wish we'd get the hell out already. Every time we reduce our troop levels, suddenly relations with South Korea get better. Shocker.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:12 No.2307300
    >>2307279
    Yeah i know. that's what I was saying. You know what you shouldn't have to choose? Which essential health care coverage you might need and which you're most willing to risk going without.

    Also in France--the big bad socialist health care place--about half of the people have some form of supplementary private insurance for things that the whole population shouldn't have to pay for.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:12 No.2307303
    ITT, poorfags and citifags don't fucking get it
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:12 No.2307304
    BY TAXING RICH PEOPLE MORE THERE'S A MAGICAL AMOUNT OF MORE MONEY FOR THE MIDDLE CLASS AND POOR BECAUSE SINCE THE RICH PEOPLE PAYING THEM HAVE LESS MONEY THEY'LL MAKE MORE MONEY BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN TAXED MORE
    >> Vancouverfag !!qce/PllbBKK 09/16/10(Thu)18:12 No.2307305
    >>2307300
    Oh, carry on then.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:14 No.2307309
    >1. universal healthcare with a token payment to discourage abuse
    This is silly. Why would you discourage abuse? The horrendous wait times would be enough for that.
    Also, not the province of the federal government.
    >2. public rail transportation infrastructure so that all but the most rural citizens don't need to own a car
    This is horribly impractical. So you get this rail system set up, at great cost to the government, and then what? People still have to drive to the stations. Unless you intend to have a railroad that goes up to everyone's driveway, in which point you're basically nationalizing cars, at huge expense. Obviously, this would be impossible in the US due to size.
    Also, not the province of the federal government.
    >3. nuclear energy powered electrical grid
    This is a good idea. I wish people were less scared of nuclear.
    It's not the province of the federal government, though.
    >4. no foreign wars or entanglements, "friends with all, allies with none"
    This is impossible, and furthermore you are horribly naive for even implying that it could be possible.
    >5. steeply progressive tax structure to keep the middle class strong and give the lower class a chance at advancement
    Because that works so well in other places? Why would you even want to do this?
    Also, this is neither progressivism, nor is it the province of the federal government.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:14 No.2307311
    >>2307288
    That's just because they don't like the idea of American GIs fucking their women.

    Seriously.

    South Koreans are that fucking petty and racist. They'll compromise their whole national security if it means less gook chicks getting knocked up by white/black guys from America.


    This is truly the real reason. If you doubt it at all then you've never spent any amount of time around a Korean person.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:14 No.2307312
    >>2307279
    Picking your doctor doesn't mean much if you think you might have cancer and you can't get an appointment to see him for 4 months.
    >> Vancouverfag !!qce/PllbBKK 09/16/10(Thu)18:14 No.2307314
    >>2307309
    >UHC
    >horrendous wait times

    Brainwashed American faggot spotted
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:16 No.2307324
    >Fuck yeah, country-spanning mass transit!
    >Fuck yeah, universal health care!
    >Fuck yeah, clean re-newable energy!
    >Fuck yeah, no binding treaties!
    >Fuck yeah, a fair tax system!

    don't see a problem here, /new/
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:17 No.2307335
    ITT: People assume that our government has more power than it actually does.

    Even with all of the increases in power the feds have been receiving, there's still things that congress, the senate, and president are prevented from doing by the constitution.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:19 No.2307347
         File1284675546.png-(3 KB, 209x215, 3.png)
    3 KB
    >>2307335
    So they can pass shit like the PATRIOT Act without much trouble but we can't get UHC or high-speed rail or a tax system that gets the wealthy paying their fair share?

    Fuck off.


    FUCK OFF.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:19 No.2307348
    >>2307324
    >progressive tax

    >fair

    Fair is a flat tax. Paying more money to uncle sam because I make more than some retard at McDonalds isn't fair taxation
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:20 No.2307355
    >>2307257
    1. learn to dictionary. its bad to become reliant on a system you have no hand in. And don't give me the BS about taxes are our hand because most people just have them automatically removed from their paycheck and never actually have to dole out the funds personally. Your health starts with you. safety nets are fine, but I will not have my share of government funding go to mop up other people's bad decisions.

    2. attractive to live in the city... ... that requires more than just rail. we already have it in and around major downtown. It is called the subway. smaller cities and towns do not have subways or overland rail around their downtowns because it would be too damn expensive to rip everything up to install the fixtures for such a small service area. hence buses. overland trollies would be nice but...

    4. I was not referring to the current state of affairs. not like I really care for the plight of other people to begin with. military isolationism however, is foolish in the modern world

    5. its only regressive because of the loopholes so fix it by closing the loopholes before you start to invent a new one. Making the richest and corporations pay more will mean shit if you do not stop the leaks in the piping
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:20 No.2307356
    >>2307348
    The only people who see it like that are truly delusional libertarians, or mere aspies. Which are you?
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:20 No.2307359
    >>2307335
    So, the constitution prevents the government from instituting a better public transportation and clean energy system?
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:20 No.2307361
    The PATRIOT Act is linked to the defense of the country. Making Bill gates pay more money because he's richer than you isn't vital to the defense of the country
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:21 No.2307364
    >>2307347
    >the wealthy paying their fair share?
    The wealthy already pay their fair share, upwards of 60%. They also pay far more on estate taxes than other people.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:22 No.2307368
    >>2307059
    >France and Germany's public transport companies have turned a profit for decades
    They are not nearly as extensive as a rail system would have to be to decrease reliance on automobiles the way you describe.
    >either way, it's not about profit, it's about providing services to the people WHICH IS THE ROLE OF GOVERNMENT
    No it isn't. The role of government is to protect liberty. None of this stuff is in any way something that the federal government should be doing. Except 4, of course.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:22 No.2307371
    >>2307309
    >>2307314

    Good point. Why, just recently i was able to see my GP within days of making an appointment. Where he promptly told me my dialysis won't start until April 2012.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:22 No.2307374
    >>2307361
    It's vital to the economic health of this country. Unless you want an eventual Latin American-style set-up where we all live in shit-poverty while the top 1% live like kings.

    And no, parroting a few shitty Ayn Rand quotes does not make you part of that 1%.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:22 No.2307376
    >>2307232
    >Most companies only offer their employees two or three choices, none of which very THAT wildly in coverage
    BECAUSE there are only that many insurance companies in that state because of no competition accross state lines

    >This doesn't even make logical sense. Doctors with that much business bring in a second doctor and go in together on their practice.
    OR they just jack up their rates. Why not if the insurance companies pass the increases on?

    Also you say the concept of insurance companies raising their rates is 'just stupid' why?

    >Lasik is a cosmetic procedure, which means it's never going to get covered by anyone
    First of al it's not a 'cosmetic procedure' My eyes were broken (20/500 in one eye 20/400 in the other) before I had lasik now they work correctly theres nothing 'cosmetic' about that change. The reason insurance companies call it that is A) you aren't wearing glasses afterward therefore you look differen't and B) they don't want to have to pay for the procedure. Calling lasik 'cosmetic surgery' is like calling Knee surgery cosmetic surgery because of course you aren't walking around on crutches after the procedure and thus look better therefore cosmetic surgery right? Bullshit. Also it doesn't matter that the procedure isn't life saving or critical the lessons learned are from the pricing structure not from its necessity which is irrelevant to the conversation we are having
    >> S.T.A.L.K.E.R. !!LMxbg8EyIsb 09/16/10(Thu)18:23 No.2307379
    >>2307309
    >So you get this rail system set up, at great cost to the government, and then what? People still have to drive to the stations. Unless you intend to have a railroad that goes up to everyone's driveway
    wow you're fucking retarded

    walking, street trams every 500m, bicycles, take your fucking pick
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:23 No.2307380
    1. universal healthcare with a token payment to discourage abuse
    >won't ever happen
    2. public rail transportation infrastructure so that all but the most rural citizens don't need to own a car
    >won't every happen
    3. nuclear energy powered electrical grid
    >won't every happen
    4. no foreign wars or entanglements, "friends with all, allies with none"
    >won't every happen
    5. steeply progressive tax structure to keep the middle class strong and give the lower class a chance at advancement
    >won't every happen

    as much as i would like your plan to happen
    >won't every happen
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:23 No.2307383
    >>2307361
    >implying that the patriot act is doing anything good
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:23 No.2307387
    >>2307364
    Relative to the portion of the GDP they control, it's not their fair share. It's far from it. What they pay right now might sound like too much if you're some sort of corporate apologist, but it's really not.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:24 No.2307392
    >>2307348
    A flat tax is mathematically impossible to achieve unless you're a small country with a massive amount of foreign investment so you can actually gather the funds to maintain a functional government and infrastructure--i.e. small city-state tax havens or Switzerland.

    Everyone's got at least that one stupid belief that's just waiting for someone to come by to point out how it's flawed, but how does it feel when that somebody is basic fucking math? I suppose that's a feeling only a libtertardian will ever know.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:25 No.2307403
    >>2307364
    Fun fact: The wealthy have much more than 60% of the money. How does it feel defending a demographic with much more money to spare, that still manages to pay a lower share in taxes than you?
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:26 No.2307410
    >a tax system that gets the wealthy paying their fair share?

    Exploiting a loophole on income taxes doesn't exempt the rich from paying payroll taxes, savings taxes, property taxes, sales taxes...... Not to mention that even after exploiting loopholes on income taxes, they still pay more than what you will in several lifetimes
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:28 No.2307424
    >>2307403
    Fun Fact: Someone owning a shit ton of money has no real bearing on the amount of money you can make. Liberals and their made up bullshit made to promote class warfare
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:28 No.2307425
    >>2307410
    >they still pay more than what you will in several lifetimes

    For the love of fuck, can you aspies PLEASE start looking at the amount paid in taxes in a relative view instead of an absolute one?

    Talk about being unable to see the forest for the trees. Holy shit. You can only be trolling. 10 out of fucking 10, good sir.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:28 No.2307426
    >Iran wouldn't be charging a toll at the mouth of the persian gulf

    The United States Navy is, besides our nuclear arsenal, the only absolutely awesome we-need-to-keep-it part of our military. Such an action would be impossible.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:28 No.2307430
    >>2307387
    If you then make them pay taxes for the amount of GDP they control, their taxes would be up around 90 to 95%.
    That's gonna do one thing. Cause them to screw us to make back what they lose to taxes.
    The rich aren't gonna let go of their wealth without a fight.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:28 No.2307436
    >>2307376
    You know about the only organizations that refuse to pay hospitals higher and higher rates if they know they're full of shit? Medicare and Medicaid. That's why for-profit hospitals put those patients off as long as possible. Private insurance companies just continue to make deals with those hospitals as long as they know enough of their clients can still afford the premiums.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:29 No.2307446
    >>2307410
    Because they MAKE more than you will in several lifetimes. Dumbass.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:30 No.2307449
    >>2307380
    >won't every

    Did you fail English class?
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:30 No.2307450
    >>2307355
    >smaller cities and towns do not have subways or overland rail around their downtowns because it would be too damn expensive to rip everything up to install the fixtures for such a small service area. hence buses. overland trollies would be nice but...

    Ding ding ding WINRAR

    Buses will always win over rail/subways in normal-sized cities and towns for a single reason: Whenever the city evolves, and these blocks over here get built up while the neighborhood over there dies off, all you have to do is change the damn bus route. But altering a rail or subway line by just a few blocks would cost hundreds of millions of dollars and take years or DECADES.

    Rail and subway only makes sense in areas so densely packed that pretty much any stop anywhere will be helpful.

    Unsurprisingly, pretty much all such areas in the US already have rail and subways.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:30 No.2307452
    >>2307392
    That's why several countries have been using the system with great success the past couple of years. Hong Kong Austria? I don't see these places turning into spiraling shit holes because they have a flat tax. Liberals yet again buying into the class warfare bullshit
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:30 No.2307454
    >>2307314
    I am a citizen in California and in Denmark. I have used the health systems of both states. In Denmark, an emergency can be dealt with reasonably quickly. Anything else takes months to get an appointment. In the US, you can get taken care of whenever you want to, pretty much. Of course, this also encourages people to go to the doctor for stupid shit like a cold or a cut or something, and it has plenty of other flaws. But implying that UHC doesn't have higher wait times is simply ignorant.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:31 No.2307462
    >>2307446
    And I say good for them. Why are so many liberal faggots upset that someone is making a shit ton of money? Haters gonna hate I guess
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:33 No.2307472
    >>2307379
    OH OKAY, I'LL JUST WALK THE TEN MILES TO THE STATION! THIS IS NOT IMPRACTICAL AT ALL! OR I CAN HAVE A STREET CAR COME PICK ME UP, THAT IS TOTALLY UNLIKE A NATIONALIZED AUTOMOBILE!
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:33 No.2307473
    >>2307430
    Any business that's remotely successful is already screwing the majority of their employees out of as much money as they can to begin with. Those big businesses haven't been laying people off because they somehow can't afford to pay them; they're laying them off because they don't NEED them when there's less demand in the recession. You can see how this problem feeds on itself on a large scale, and why "Keynesian" economic principles are practiced during recessions in every developed country in the world.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:34 No.2307483
    >>2307392
    >>2307392
    >A flat tax is mathematically impossible to achieve unless you're a small country with a massive amount of foreign investment so you can actually gather the funds to maintain a functional government and infrastructure--i.e. small city-state tax havens or Switzerland

    Why? No BS, not trolling, im really asking. Why would it be mathematically impossible to institute a flat tax in the US?
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:35 No.2307488
    >>2307473
    fucking this

    they're already screwing us plebs as much as possible

    might as well take some of the profit out of their pockets and cut away at the deficit with it
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:35 No.2307493
    >>2307374
    Giving more money to the government does not "fuel" the economy. It may fuel government programs but it's not going to make the economy magically run better
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:37 No.2307502
    >>2307493
    Tell us why you think putting money back in the hands of people who will spend it is a bad idea.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:39 No.2307512
    >>2307473
    >Company kills deadwood because they aren't profitable.

    >Butthurt faggots complain about companies being GREEDY

    >Company is forced to take back deadwood, profitability goes down

    >Company goes out of business, shitty workers complain about capitalism exploiting them
    >> S.T.A.L.K.E.R. !!LMxbg8EyIsb 09/16/10(Thu)18:39 No.2307513
         File1284676751.jpg-(34 KB, 530x367, dealwithit.jpg)
    34 KB
    >>2307450
    >Rail and subway only makes sense in areas so densely packed that pretty much any stop anywhere will be helpful
    total bullshit, every town in the US with a population of 1,000 used to have at least a trolley network
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:39 No.2307518
    >>2307452
    Did you seriously not read anything past the first 10 words? I specifically pointed out how SMALL countries and city-states such as Hong Kong, Singapore, Ireland and Switzerland were the only exemptions to this rule. Have you noticed any similarity between these countries? They're all small with massive amounts of foreign investment. And newsflash: There's only so much that foreign investment can help a country like the US that has 20% of the developed world's population. You've made no point other than the fact that you fail horribly at basic math.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:39 No.2307520
    blarh
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:41 No.2307533
    >>2307512
    I assume "deadwood" is your fucktarded way of attempting to say "deadweight." Yeah, no competent company will do what you just said.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:41 No.2307534
         File1284676903.png-(748 KB, 1004x1081, 512184 - tagme.png)
    748 KB
    >>2307513
    HAAWWWWWWWW
    >> HonestAbe !!PczG3fxKk0s 09/16/10(Thu)18:41 No.2307535
    Get the fuck off this board, everyone here hates you as much as /k/ and /v/
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:42 No.2307538
    >>2307502
    What magical fantasy world are you living in? That money isn't given to you in the form of a check. You will never see that money, it's going to be used to fund what ever government pet project they feel like wasting money on. progressive tax doesn't put money in the hands of the consumer, it puts it in the hands of the government. Stop living under the ideology that the rich are making your life shit. You alone are making your life shit
    >> S.T.A.L.K.E.R. !!LMxbg8EyIsb 09/16/10(Thu)18:43 No.2307542
         File1284677005.jpg-(56 KB, 752x500, Washington_DC_metro_station_be(...).jpg)
    56 KB
    >>2307472
    >OH OKAY, I'LL JUST WALK THE TEN MILES TO THE STATION! THIS IS NOT IMPRACTICAL AT ALL! OR I CAN HAVE A STREET CAR COME PICK ME UP, THAT IS TOTALLY UNLIKE A NATIONALIZED AUTOMOBILE!
    you are insanely ignorant of how public transportation works, and i honestly pity you
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:44 No.2307545
    >>2307538
    >You will never see that money, it's going to be used to fund what ever government pet project they feel like wasting money on

    Such as infrastructure jobs and the like.

    If you'd really rather have it stay in the swiss bank account of some investment banker, then fine.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:44 No.2307547
    >>2307483
    Because the US' population in proportion to the rest of the developed world is too small. Small countries can get away with it by relying on high amounts of foreign investment by having business-friendly low tax rates and laws, but the world simply isn't big enough for a country with 330 million people to attract enough foreign investment to offset all that lost tax revenue. Businesses constantly try to tell you differently, yet every time we lower the taxes you have to ask yourself why we didn't magically transform into Hong Kong.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:45 No.2307556
    >>2307538
    Despite the retarded amount of attention random "pet projects" receive in the media, they actually make up an abysmally small portion of the budget. Get your head out of your ass.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:46 No.2307559
    >>2307545
    Government jobs do not improve the economy retard. And as for some millionaire with a swiss bank account, good for them, unlike you, I don't believe I'm entitled to other peoples shit.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:46 No.2307560
    >>2307542
    I used to live in DC.
    Metro was cool and all, but waiting for the bus to take me to the nearest metro station was a pain in the ass. Especially in winter and summer.
    And Metro is very good at what they do.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:46 No.2307562
    >>2307513
    [citation needed]
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:48 No.2307568
    >>2307376
    >>2307436
    >You know about the only organizations that refuse to pay hospitals higher and higher rates if they know they're full of shit? Medicare and Medicaid.

    Actually, Medicare and Medicaid refuse to pay "higher and higher rates" on ANYTHING, regardless of how well-proven the given treatment is.

    And in fact, it goes far, far beyond the feds trying to "stop skyrockimg prices." They refuse to pay anywhere near the actual cost.

    To give you an example of how bad it is, here's how it works for anesthesia. (And yeah, my dad is an anesthesiologist.) Medicare first takes the physician's bill for the anesthesia and says, "Well, we've arbitrarily decided that only 80% of this bill is an acceptable charge." (Yes, blatant price controls, which have been proven to fail every time they've ever been used, no matter the government or industry.)

    But that's just the beginning. See, Medicare then takes that 80% AND ONLY PAYS THE DOCTOR 20% OF THAT. Take it or leave it.

    The result, of course, is obvious: Almost all doctors strictly limit the number of Medicare/Medicaid patients they'll deal with at any given time, and more and more of them are steadily dropping out of the Medicare program entirely. After all, if all his other patients are paying the going rate and his government insurance patients are paying only 15-18% as much for the exact same treatment, why take on so many of them that he wouldn't even be able to pay his office staff?
    >> S.T.A.L.K.E.R. !!LMxbg8EyIsb 09/16/10(Thu)18:48 No.2307569
    >>2307560
    DC metro is nowhere near adequate nor is it representative of what we should have

    it works well for what it's really designed for, shuttling Federal government employees in and out of the District, but it's hardly a public transportation program for the region

    the bus arguably is, but it's shit-tier implementation
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:49 No.2307574
    >>2307542
    Explain it, then. Instead of saying "hur, yur dumb" tell me something that could alleviate my concern. Or are you unable? Because honestly, I see no way that you could.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:51 No.2307580
    >>2307569
    DC metro is massive, and one of the finest city transit systems on earth. It's also expensive, and useless for towns that aren't tourist hangouts, or with populations under 500000 people.
    Get real.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:51 No.2307583
    >>2307559
    1) Government jobs CAN improve the economy. Assuming the money's used for projects that are actually beneficial (most are, despite what Fox tells you), those people are able to use that money to buy from businesses in the private sector, thus helping to alleviate the lack of demand that creates and prolongs a recession in the first place.

    2) You might not think that, but you know who does? The typical millionaire that sits on his ass and sells stocks, giving you the scraps of the profits made off YOUR OWN labor. Seriously, wtf is with American Republicans romanticizing the rich? You guys act like the majority of them actually work for that money and aren't just born into wealth or lucky investors.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:51 No.2307584
    >>2306812

    "The facts are that 31 people died as an immediate result of the accident and fighting the resulting fire (28 from radiation injuries, two from non-radiation blast injuries and one due to a coronary thrombosis), and 134 were diagnosed with acute radiation syndrome. Of the latter, 14 people have since died, but their deaths were not necessarily attributable to radiation exposure. In addition, about 800 cases of thyroid cancers have been reported in children, of whom three have died. The total of 48 deaths, tragic as it is, has to be compared with the hundreds that die in other natural and man-caused disasters."

    How many people die in car accidents in your state? Maybe we should ban cars instead. They seem to be a lot more harmfull
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:51 No.2307585
    >>2307560
    >I live where they do what you want to do, it had a few flaws
    >>2307569
    >THEY DID IT WRONG IT WILL BE PERFECT IF EVERYTHING WAS DONE JUST LIKE I SAY
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:53 No.2307597
    >>2307580
    >Get real.
    Did you even read this thread? Now you're sounding almost as unrealistic as she is.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:54 No.2307605
    >>2307568
    If this was even remotely true, those cheap non-profit hospitals with large Medicare or Medicaid recipients would go bankrupt several times over every given fiscal year. Guess what? They don't. Your dad either gets easily butthurt over "bad" deals, and/or he's just full of shit.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:55 No.2307607
    >>2307348

    You're kidding right? The more you can spare the more you should be taxed. That is fair. If you have that much money then you wouldn't miss it. While poor people are being hurt by even minor taxes.
    >> Anonymous 09/16/10(Thu)18:56 No.2307619
    >>2307605
    Those get money from other sources, usually funds set up by the altruistic rich.



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