because they don't know how to write cursive. ha. ha.

>mfw you think it's bad because there's not enough government involved
statistic.png

>MFW Eurofags don't realize its the conservatards holding us back

Who does the rest of the world deal with dental exams and procedures?

Of course here in the 'ol U$ we have to buy a seperate dental insurance which covers only parts of the bills.

inb4 religious people shit up the thread

We have the best healthcare in the world, if you can afford it.

>>2038573

Healthcare is not a right, it's a good/service.

Do you have a right to a car, cell phone, or a house? No. So, why should you have the right to health care.

The only thing you're entitled to is your life, if by chance you break a bone, not my problem, you should be more careful.

Of course I will continue to donate to organizations to help the poor and homeless get the health care they need.

>>2038590
Yeah. that's exactly why. Unlike other western countries, America has no laws limiting how much you can sell medical supplies for. This in turn raises the costs of healthcare, which makes it more expensive so poor people can only afford shitty healthcare.
Government regulation isn't always bad, especially when your government sucks corporate cocks.

>>2039368
3/10

>>2039368
What if you have some chronic disease which requires medication (i.e. diabetes)? And you have no health insurance?

Jus' sayin'.

>captha = foundationalist pletin
>where are these words coming from?

>>2039385

>He doesn't understand competition.

Laughinggirls.jpg

>>2039410
Competition is worthless when the corporations have basically a monopoly on prescription drugs.

>>2039407
You know how stupid americans are right? Don't put it past us to think if we have healthcare we can get diabetes and be fine.

We need that fear to make us healthy. I agree people need health insurance but not in the state we're in now. First fix societies view on health.

>>2039407

You should have saved and/or gotten health insurance. The government has no right to regulate the business of medicine.

First of all, other people must pay for things like healthcare. Those people have bills to pay and families to support, just as you do. If there is a right to healthcare, you must force the providers of those goods, or others, to serve you.

Obviously, if healthcare providers were suddenly considered outright slaves to healthcare consumers, our medical schools would quickly empty. As the government continues to convince us that healthcare is a right instead of a good, it also very generously agrees to step in as middle man. Politicians can be very good at making it sound as if healthcare will be free for everybody. Nothing could be further from the truth. The administration doesn't want you to think too much about how hospitals will be funded, or how you will somehow get something for nothing in the healthcare arena. We are asked to just trust the politicians. Somehow it will all work out.

>>2039407
You shouldnt have got so fat then

>>2039385
>America has no laws limiting how much you can sell medical supplies for

Holy shit, I'm not even libertarian and I hope you understand just how retarded that claim is

>>2039432
This is how lolbertarians justify the worst health system in the industrialized world

>>2039427

>He doesn't understand how monopolies work!

Monopolies are good, you know why? Because with a monopoly, they have to keep lower prices in case of potential competition. If for example, a business started raising too high, then competition will spring up.

Now Government monopolies like universal health care is bad, on the other hand.

>>2039430
>we can get diabetes

er, i was referring to type 1 diabetes. the genetic kind.

>>2039432
>You should have saved

So, one should anticipate the manifestation of genetic deficiencies?

> and/or gotten health insurance

What if one cannot afford it?

>>2039432
You're a zionist, your arguments are invalid. Why don't you go to palestine and kill some babies, that's what you zionist jews seem to love so much.

>>2038573
>no visage to show that my disgust when Eurofags think Americans are dying in the street and don't know that it's poor people that fuck up our healthcare system as they pass the cost, that they can't pay, on to other patients

>realize that all of Europe's "free" health care is only available because of American innovations.
>realize that Europeans get taxed out their ass.
>realize that the best doctors and hospitals are in America.
>realize most doctors in Europe trained in America.
>realize poor folks can still get emergency healthcare in America.
>realize rich sick Europeans come to America to get complicated procedures done.
>realize Europeans have to wait months or years on a waiting list to get procedures an American can get within a week.

>mf

>>2039430
>>2039434
>mfw when fat americans think the only kind of diabetes is the kind fat americans get

>>2039432
>You should have saved and/or gotten health insurance. The government has no right to regulate the business of medicine.
Actually the Commerce Clause in the constitution allows it to regulate Medicine. That's why the FDA exists.

>First of all, other people must pay for things like healthcare. Those people have bills to pay and families to support, just as you do. If there is a right to healthcare, you must force the providers of those goods, or others, to serve you.

Or the Government pays for it, like every other industrialized country.

You make it seem like doctors will be working for nothing at all, which is ridiculous. The government will be paying for health care, instead of a health insurance company. Don't be an idiot.

>>2039445
You are an idiot, monopolies aren't good when the corporations constantly keep the government from allowing competition.

>lol, niggers and beaners can't get health care with out gov't help, but the white master race has the best health care ever to exist right here in America.
Troll harder, faggot.

>>2039455

Well, that's sad, but that still doesn't give you the right to a good/service.

If you're really in a bind, then ask your family for help, maybe a local organization, or friends. Public health care could work wonders to a point on the local level and maybe on the state level, but not on the national level. It's just a bureaucracy waiting to fall apart.

>>2039469
>My face when you watch and believe Fox News.

>>2039476

Corporatism =/= Capitalism

Try again.

>>2039485

>>mfw you can't counter any of those arguments, because they are true.

>>2038573
>rates of healthcare
What the fuck is a rate of healthcare, OP?

>>2039490
>implying capitalism doesn't inherently lead to monopolies and corporatism

>>2039490
Okay, but America is involved in corporatism you fool. You just proved yourself wrong about America's healthcare system.

>>2039497
Most are irrelevant. Like waiting lines. The waiting lines are awfully long if you can't pay, aren't they? I don't blame anyone not responding to your dumbass list

>>2039490
Success protects itself to guarantee continued success. Corporatism is what happens when capitalism is run by humans.

The solution is to surrender all control to robots.

>MFW americunts are brainwashed into thinking a monopolistic for-profit health care system cares about anything but your money

>>2039490
actually corporatism does equal capitalism. in a free market everything is for sale. don't get mad just because corporations bought your government,.

>>2039502

>implying it does
>implying it's people like you that don't cause corporatism through government funded programs and more government control

>>2039512
>Corporatism is what happens when socialists destroy capitalism

That's like saying someone owning a gun will lead to him shooting it, and then blaming the gun.

>>2038573
sources on:
>worst rates of healthcare in the West

>>2039521
>duh. If they don't treat you right, you won't go to them or better yet, you will sue them and where is the money now? Where as in Eurocunt land, some bored careless bureaucrat is dealing with your shit.

>>2039529
hahaha lolbertarian cult brainwashing is strong in this one

Let me guess, only gold is money, right?

>>2039508

Rich people can skip waiting lists in Europe just like they can in America, the difference is the rich Europeans will likely come to America to get the procedure done while the rich American will travel within America to get the best treatment.

>>2039528

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism

Now I want everyone here to read these articles and understand the difference.

>>2039529
"People who acquire wealth will takes measures to protect it" == socialism, huh?

Sure thing.

>>2039543

Gold certainly has intrinsic value, and unlike paper currency, it's value can't be changed by a printing press.

>>2039521
Who says they don't believe that? We just think that that fact is irrelevant since the we give them the money in exchange for their services.

>>2039548
acording to that capitalism article, corporatism is capitalism.

>medicine
>business

>deciding if people live or die
>business

FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUU
Sometimes /new/ you just....

>>2039529
Retard status:

Not told: [ ]
FUCKING TOLD: [x]

sup

>HURR DURR socialist healthcare is bad cause its commie nazi shit DERP

>>2039572

Capitalism is an economic system in which the means of production are privately owned and operated for profit; supply, demand, price, distribution, and investments are determined mainly by private decisions in the free market, rather than by the state through central economic planning; Profit is distributed to owners who invest in businesses, and wages are paid to workers employed by businesses.

Corporatism also known as corporativism is a system of economic, political, or social organisation that views a community as a body based upon organic social solidarity and functional distinction and roles amongst individuals. The term corporatism is based on the Latin word "corpus" meaning "body". Formal corporatist models are based upon the contract of corporate groups, such as agricultural, business, ethnic, labour, military, patronage, scientific, or religious affiliations, into a collective body. One of the most prominent forms of corporatism is economic tripartism involving negotiations between business, labour, and state interest groups to set economic policy. In contemporary usage, "corporatism" is often used as a pejorative term against the domination of politics by the interests of business corporations based on the inaccurate interpretation of "corporat" in corporatism as referring to business corporations.

Or to put it more simply.

: the organization of a society into industrial and professional corporations serving as organs of political representation and exercising control over persons and activities within their jurisdiction

>>2039585
>thinks correlation is causation

>Doesnt know i could make a graph showing the increasing wealth divide and increasing medical costs and see the same pattern

>Probably has mises.org as his homepage

>>2039529

Forgot the
>implying Corporatism is what happens when capitalism is run by humans

>>2039594
>In contemporary usage, "corporatism" is often used as a pejorative term against the domination of politics by the interests of business corporations based on the inaccurate interpretation of "corporat" in corporatism as referring to business corporations.

>>2039572

one is an economic system. one is a branch or subset of an economic system. learn the difference

>>2039585
>>2039585
>>2039585

>mfw when I'm a Eurofag and my national healthcare system is bankrupting my society but I'm too much a douche to admit it's obvious failure and instead troll Americans for having the wisdom to oppose a care rationing budget buster.

>>2039629
American health care costs our government more than European health care costs their government. Explain please.

>>2039629
Im on the same boat. feels bad, man

>my face when people think that the lack of a price ceiling is the reason health care is expensive

It has nothing to do with capitalism. This is corporatism, the corporations. I agree with him. Corporations run things; the drug companies’ lobbyists, the insurance companies’ lobbyists and the hospital managements’ lobbyists, the AMA lobbyists and that’s all managed care and we have a system where money and bigness influences the government, but that’s corporatism. That’s not capitalism. But we want our free markets…

>>2039650
st-st-st-strawman!

>>2039650

My face too.

>my face when people can't tell the difference between corporatism and capitalism

Sure is fascist propaganda.

>>2039639
Could it be that our government spends shitloads more on medicare, etc per person than the eurofags? So much for blaming the free market

>>2039594
yeah i can read. sadly you don't seem to be capable of understanding. you see, we live in a capitalist country. now because of that the actions of our government are up for sale on the free market. This is currently being used to have our society function differently. Because we live in a capitalist country, if you don't like the way things are currently being run, you can attempt to buy the government and then it will function as instructed by you.

Ain't capitalism great? G-d bless the free market.

There will never be a free market. There will never be equality of ability to engage in, and protect, private trade interests. It will always be unbalanced, unfair, and unfree. Those with money and power will always do what they can to make sure they stay where they are. This is human nature.

>>2039661
Actually somebody claimed that was the reason near the start of the thread. I couldn't be bothered going back and quoting it.

>>2039671
Obviously they have to spend more because of the free market demands for profit.

>>2039676

>we live in a capitalist country

I don't know about you, but I live in America. And, America is hardly capitalist. It's corporatism disguised as capitalism. Special interests, corporations campaigning for government regulation to make them more money.

I don't see the freedom here.

>>2039676
>now because of that the actions of our government are up for sale on the free market
>Because we live in a capitalist country, if you don't like the way things are currently being run, you can attempt to buy the government and then it will function as instructed by you.

>free market
>you can attempt to buy the government

>implying free market capitalism = state corporatism

sure is willful ignorance in here

Americans have the most inefficient and expensive health-care system.

Enjoy being raped by greedy businesses.

>>2039343
Retard detected

ITT: Proof leftists can't even bother looking up what the fucking free market is

That's horribly pathetic

>>2039709
>Implying that's untrue.

>>2039688
To these people everything short of Marxist communism is capitalism.

My country uses a shit ton of its manpower to have people sit at desks all day and deny or approve claims.

These people could be teachers, or farmers, or firefighters.

No, they sit at an office and get fat.
And decide who will live or die based on their employment.

Sure is a great use of manpower.

>>2039701
I remember this once you start breaking down the crieteria your realize its horseshit.

It your system is socialized they stack bonus points on your scores arbitrarily.

>>2039688
>>2039688
i can't help it if you're to stupid to see that you live in a capitalist country and you have failed to realize that a society that puts everything up for sale puts itself up for sale.

>>2039731
>arbitrarily=for working

>>2039731
>Conservatard
>Denying easily found statistics
God you're almost as bad as the gun rights activists.

>>2039698
so you can't buy your government in a free market country? then why is it called a free market? not being able to buy something sure seems like a regulation to me.

>>2039762
If you can afford more taxation, you should get more representation. That's how a free market ought to work.

>>2039755
enjoy living like a pussy eurofag once they criminalize carrying knives lolol

>>2039762
a real free market doesn't have a government you worthless piece of shit

>>2039762
The free market isn't eternal. As soon as a society moves away from the definition it ceases to be the word which that definition belongs.

>>2039762
lolbutthurt

>mfw Americans think our Health Care system is better than the Euros
>mfw Americans still support privatized Health Care
>mfw Americans still suck Corporate dick to have Health Care
>mfw Americans don't know that Denmark has the best system in the world
>mfw Americans don't know what they're talking and jsut believe every stupid fucking thing they hear from Fox Noise

>>2039716
>>2039716
>implying it is

>>2039790
so then a "free" market isn't actually free? why don't you just call it a "only has the regulations we like" market?

>>2039819
What the FUCK? How did you derive that from my post?

>>2039802
>refers to Americans like he isn't one

Why the fuck would you give two shits if you don't live here?

captcha: ineffective hitman

>>2039819
see
>>2039787

>>2039835
because you put limitations on how the market operates. limitations are also known as regulations.

>>2039848
so how do you enforce contracts without a government?

>>2039849
Uhm... I don't want any market limitations or regulations... I just said that if a society doesn't fit the definition of a free market, then it isn't one.

>>2039840
I'm insulting the stupid ones who think and believe this way of Health Care. Maybe I should've been like John McClain and say "My fellow Americans..."

>>2039867
but you said that it doesn't fit the definition of a free market if the government is paid to put restrictions on it. this implies that a "free" market doesn't allow government employees to sell their services as they see fit. this would be a limitation.

>>2039876
Are you retarded? I said that the free market is not eternal. Meaning that if there is a government it is not a free market.

>>2039872
So you're trying to convince people by insulting them?

Yeah, that'll work.

>>2039887
>believes in a magical perfect market and that society could exist without a government,

>>2039910
Why couldn't it?

>>2039930
humans would be involved.

>>2039862
arbitrators, private courts, etc

Contracts do not require the state. In fact, anyone who thinks society requires a state to exist logically supports a world government. If you don't think a world government is necessary to have laws, trade, etc then you don't believe in statism period.

That's right, shit just got real.

>>2039940
You've convinced me! You are a scholar.

>>2039943
No you are just trading one authority for another

then all the power ends up in the hands of these arbitrators and enforcers

Its no diffrent the goverment only in that they have less obligation to you.

>>2039953
people tend not to be logically lead away from their religions.

>>2039965
>implying "humans are involved" constitutes a logical argument
>implying I'm religious
>implying libertarianism is a religion

>>2039943
>believes that people paid by a company to enforce contracts would enforce them without bias.

>>2039904
Yes, idiotic people need to be fucked with in order for the mto understand a few things.

>>2039960
>doesnt understand how monopolies work


That's like saying restaurants have all the power because without food you'll starve. There's this thing called competition, bro. Private courts, which already exist mind you, are dependent on the people. Just like restaurants, just like everything else.

>>2039975
>implying believe in a magical invisible hand that makes everything perfect is somehow more rational than believe in a magical invisible old dude who could make everything perfect but chooses not to.

Having a government allows all the power to go into it, regardless of whatever economy you have.

A free market won't exist for too long in any government mainly because one company will gain a lot of economic influence, and then use the government to get more. Then rinse, and repeat.

Without a government, who can you influence? Companies rarely let other companies influence them. Competition keeps things going round, so truthfully a free market without a government would work better.

>>2039992
WE NEED PRICE CEILINGS TO STOP RESTURANTS CHARGING ONE-HUNDRED DOLLARS FOR A CHEESEBURGER. ONLY THE GOVERNMENT CAN FIX THIS. IT'S TIME TO LOBBY C-C-C-C-APTIAN GOVERNMENT!
>>2039993
>implying I believe "everything will be perfect"
>implying the acknowledgement of private law and enforcement doesn't contradict that

>>2039980

no one wants to go to a known corrupt court. Would you want one of those NBA refs who admitted fixing games to officiate your team's game? your reputation is part of competitive advantage

>>2039993
LOL lolbertarians dont believe in science either

I don't think many people here understand the concept of competition.

If a company charges too much, another company will start and charge less making far more profits than the first one. However, with a government, the company charging more can influence the government to now allow anyone to supersede their monopoly, forcing everyone to pay however much the monopoly wants. That is corporatism.

A free market and a government never mix, because it eventually turns into corporatism. It is very simple to understand if you comprehend economics.

>>2040036
Are you a troll or just a fool? Science is simply theoretical facts that get changed everytime something new comes up. How does science and libertarianism conflict eachother?

Competition would actually make science progress faster. Without governments fucking it up for their own political games.

>>2040071
Libertarians are mostly Austrian and Austrian reject scientific evidence when it related to economics, or anything, really

See: Ron Paul, creationist, thinks only gold is money LOL

>>2040071
>Competition would actually make science progress faster.

sauce?

>>2040028
that's why those ratings agencies that were giving top ratings to horrible mbs packages all went out of business right? oh wait....

>>2040081
Libertarians NEVER have sourced. They don't b elieve in empirical evidence.

>>2040087
sources*

they can just say things and claim to be right because government.

>>2040079
For your sake I hope you are a troll.

>>2040079
You are a statist though... the opposite of progress. Government and their bureaucracies always hinder science because they are too busy playing political games.

The future of our species isn't more control, but more freedoms. People need to learn to take care of themselves, and provide for themselves in a vast society. Not rely on the good old corrupt government for everything.

When all power is centered in one place, stagnant political games will go on endlessly. It will be stopping progress dead in its tracks.

You can deny it all you want, but governments have always controlled people through force of arms. And because of that, it can easily be considered tyrannical. Regardless, you'll probably try to troll me with your tripfaggotry, but oh well.

>>2040071
I can get how sometimes government fucks up the progress of science- stem cells being one example, but they seem few and far between.
Don't get how competition would help either, wouldn't scientists sharing information make things much more efficient and easier?

>>2040100
>pedophile calling other people trolls

hahaha

>>2040114
Don't even bother arguing with Lefty-Statist, we have long concluded that he is both an idiot and a troll.

>>2040100
>>2040100
if he is a troll then where is your evidence that any of your magical beliefs will actually work?

>>2040121
Oh, I don't mean information. I just mean competition in terms of research. Competition has always been the driving point between people, because it provides incentive. If scientists just go to work in and day out, without any challenge. Why would they have much interest doing it?

Governments are central points where all power is forwarded too. If there is only one facet of power, it can easily become corrupt and in-efficient. Politics are one of the more useless and retarded ideas ever created on this planet. The entire point of it is control.

It provides no benefits other than control, through force of arms, economic influence, or ideological influence. Central points of power never work out well...

>>2040128
>idiot and a troll= asks for empirical evidence.

>>2040150
Why do opponents of libertarianism always call it magic? It is humans competing with eachother to make more innovative and superior products. How would a central government makes things better? Politics is dirty and stagnant.

Unless you call competition and theories of economics, magic, then I don't see why that would make sense. Is everything that you can't comprehend called "magic?"

>>2040114
Which government are we talking about? Complete absence of government will simply lead to roving gangs exercising their "freedom." Anarcho-capitalism will simply lead to the rich exercising their "freedom" to write the laws and take everyone's rights.

In reality, Social Democracies with strong public programs lead the world in terms of political and economic liberty. Not to mention the litany of other metrics they consistently rank highest like quality of life, quality of health care, human development, scientific innovation, education etc.

>>2040157
what about the countries that have social safety nets, UHC, environmental and safety regulations all that stuff. Wouldn't that be considered as a benefit to the populace as a whole?

>>2040157
>It provides no benefits
other than the vast amount of research it funds on things that won't turn a profit.

>>2040172
Libertarians do not "know economics"

They have a religion that shouts GOVERNMENT BAD and provide no evidence and demand we go back to a gold standard

>>2040121
scientists already do this, every top scientist wants to be the first to do something great. This happens already under statism be it capitalism, socialism, or otherwise. It drives progress way faster. there have been numerous well known "races" in science/medicine. this is a good thing. it means we progress much more quickly,

>>2040157
Social Democracies with heavy government investment in technology and scientific research rank highest in innovation.

You are living in a fantasy world.

>Healthcare provided at-cost by state is more expensive than Jews charging $100 for $2.50 worth of oxygen during your ambulance ride.

Let the Americans have American-style healthcare while their country spirals downward. If you want to enjoy European style government then move to Europe; we are much more friendly to skilled immigrants who come to contribute to our system. If you're not just some useless beaner then you'll pretty much be waved through and free to do as you please - as long as you don't settle in England.

>>2040175
Social Democracies are always easy to use and keep corrupt however. We don't live in a world where everyone is nice. Social Democracies may seem all nice, but they are very controlling. It can be hardly called a free society, when you can't even do anything of competitive risk.

Only violent idiots need people to watch over them, but alas most of the humans species is retarded anyway...

Also Anarcho-Capitalism won't create corporatism if there is no government. Why would one company listen to another one? Competition makes them not create giant laws that hinder everyone. And if someone tries it, everyone else can easily gang up on the one monopoly.

>>2040172
invisible forces with no empirical evidence backing their existence are often referred to as magic.

>>2040172

>>2040188
I meant competition in the sense of capitalist compeition ie "I want to patent this new drug to make a shitload of money off it" not the desire to accomplish a great scientific breakthrough purely out of a desire to help humanity or to become famous.

>>2039490

Corporatism != Capitalism in the same way that Statism != Communism

>>2040176

look up "broken window fallacy"

No in fact, it would not.

>>2040204
>Social Democracies may seem all nice, but they are very controlling.
saying this doesn't make it true. especially when all evidence shows otherwise.

Social Democracies are in-effective because they have no sense of competition. How can you fight corruption, when everyone is too busy playing politics.

You may think Europe is a paradise, but it is a politically correct hell-hole that is sugarcoated to not seem like that. America has its own problems too though, mainly retarded corporatism. Capitalism hasn't existed in America for decades.

>>2040204
>Social Democracies are always easy to use and keep corrupt however.

Social Democracies are the least corrupt governments on Earth.

You are living in a fantasy world.

>>2040187
You are flagrantly ignorant of libertarianism.

>>2040218
Striking evidence you have there, Religionfag!

>>2040216
What evidence? Corruption will obviously try to hide all of its evidence. In a Social Democracy, ALL power is focused into the government. Whatever it says, goes. It is a disgusting system that is stagnant to the core. Especially with is populist and politically correct values.