I think all welfare programs should be replaced with a single progressive flat income tax of the form y = mx + b. The b would be negative $10000 or something. Not high enough where many people live off it. Actually, this would probably fail miserably with open borders.

and Henry George's Single Tax sounds good, but I don't know much about it

I think we should move back towards fiscal conservatism opposed to serve the idiotic liberal agenda.

>>190880
FUCK YEA BURZUM

>>190905
isn't that pretty much what the NIT is though? who says we need open orders? personally i'm for secure borders.

>>190926
maybe not the flat part. I'm not sure. The point of it is that the marginal tax rate is the same for everybody, so it doesn't affect behavior as much.

I'm for more open borders, but the thought of a guaranteed income scares me still. People would want to come and get it. Ideally I'd get rid of all major taxes and welfare.

I'm not opposed to it in principle, but it seems like it would be simpler to raise the minimum wage to something that puts a reasonable price on people's time.

>>190972
minimum wage just raises unemployment and hurts the most needy.

>>190972
>it seems like it would be simpler to raise the minimum wage to something that puts a reasonable price on people's time

>>190972
i thought the point of the NIT was to replace minimum wage. especially since it makes more sense for smaller business who struggle to adhere to so much regulations like minimum wages, health care plans, etc.

>>190982
Having to work jobs that pay less than $5 an hour hurts the most needy.

>>190987
#1) VERY few people in the US make the minimum wage
#2) of those MOST if not the majority make tips (which are not counted on the stats)
#3) of those left over it is a second/part time/suplimentary income
#4)and of those left over almost none make the minimum wage for more then 90 days

>>190990
Getting paid $0 an hour is worse.

>>190990
would you rather they didn't get paid at all? no ones forcing them to work there.

Most minimum wage employees are teenagers working for spending money

There already is a negative income tax. Lrn2earnedincometaxcredit

>>190994
So... ???

Milton Friedman thought has was doing a service to libertarians by developing a tax system that has what liberals like, but would replace the entirety of what was back then a massive welfare bureaucracy.

It's irrelevant now that we don't have that problem anymore.

Fuck all that. Hey, I'm very sorry that the government taxes their tips. That's fucked up. But that ain't my fault. it would appear that waitresses are just one of the many groups the government fucks in the ass on a regular basis. You show me a paper says the government shouldn't do that, I'll sign it. Put it to a vote, I'll vote for it. But what I won't do is play ball. And this non- college bullshit you're telling me, I got two words for that: "Learn to fuckin type." Cause if you're expecting me to help out with the rent, you're in for a big fuckin surprise.

>>191011
>we don't have that problem anymore.

kermit.jpg

>>190995
yes but that minimum wages causing unemployment is largely a myth and employers will use any excuse to exploit the workforce for all they're worth if not forcibly restrained so fuck 'em

>>191014
He's convinced me. Give me my dollar back!

>>191022
A myth as in employers find ways to achieve the same task with less employees?

if thats your myth then no. Thats quite well established

>>191018
Well, did you ever see Free to Choose? The public housing, the big welfare buildings with massive rolls of paper, the rows and rows of workers typing and printing out social security checks to mail.

Just saying, he wanted the NIT to replace all that, and now that technology has improved the efficiency of work, we can cut more without actually sacrificing.

faggot liberal who posts on /new/ easily gets a minimum wage job for extra video game money

poor nigger can't find a job and sells drugs instead. Gets caught and goes to prison for 10 years.

lol libtards

I honestly think the Fair Tax is the best tax system we could implement in America and the one with the best chance of gaining ground in the now occurring conservative uprising.

>>191031
Actually a /new/ser could get a minimum wage job but the mexicans took them all

>>190994
I'd drop everything for a job that pays tips and isn't below minimum wage.

>>191026
No, by getting the same work done with fewer employees, he hires more to increase productivity

>>191046
Except the Minimum wage costs him more to operate

so he cuts the number of employees, gets the same amount of work, and doesn't suffer a loss

>>191043
or how about get a job that pays tips plus minimum wage and make 30K a year

>>191046
you can only expand so much. especially in the context of small business. "bigger" is not always the best answer as you've been told.

>>191027
I'm pretty sure there are still many, many people employed for tax reasons (and tax evasion reasons).

One of the main reasons for a simplified tax system is the marginal tax rate. There have been some studies that say the effective marginal tax rate when you include government tax credits, services, etc. is around 100% for some poor people. That makes them work less and get stuck being poor.

>>191027
the bureaucracy still exists nonetheless.

>>191000
>There already is a negative income tax. >Lrn2earnedincometaxcredit

The earned income tax credit only applies to people who are 25 years and older. That means anyone who is forced to take a low-paying job and is under 25 can't take advantage of it.

I prefer a real minimum income system, a basic income.

>>191035
welcome to being wrong. Unless of course you think shifting the tax burden towards the middle class is the best tax system we could implement in America. In that case welcome to being a moron.

>>191186
Oh boy, there's a graph that tells me that under the Fair Tax, people who make $24k-$75k will technically be paying a backbreaking 1-2% more compared to income tax, all the while completely neglecting every other net benefit that results from the Fair Tax.

I REPENT I REPENT

>>191186
welcome to being wrong. Unless of course you think shifting the tax burden towards the 1st, 2nd, and 5th quintile is the best tax system we could implement in America. In that case welcome to being a moron.

seriously bro your post sucked. You should work on that.

>>191022

lrn2econ

>>191186
What this doesn't count, is the majority of taxes which come from corporate and sales taxes and tarriffs. Which will disproportionately come from the lower classes income.

>>191238
yeah people that actually need to spend all their money suddenly have less of it. How exactly is shifting the tax burden away from the upper class and towards the middle class a good thing?

Not to mention it will create a black market for literally every item in existence. Black markets tend to lead to other crimes which should be enforced which requires more police.

>>191246
So your position is that our current system is just fine, or do you have one with even more waste, bureaucracy, and expense in mind?

If you think the tax code and the costs people pay is straightforward, transparent, and painless, you are sadly mistaken. The costs associated with just paying the taxes are broad and burdensome, moreso on the average person who can't afford an accountant to manipulate the thousands of credits and deductions.

i see the NIT as a way to both simplify tax law and as an incentive to decrease government spending

set it up where there is a flat tax rate of X.
Then say half of tax revenue is divided by the amount of tax payers and distributed.
the other half is used for homeland security or whatever
if politicians want start a new program or increase funding to an existing program they must take the money needed from the pool of money going back to tax payers, and decrease the amount tax payers receive.

>>191267
There's already a big black market economy now, and the Fair Tax won't change it...much

You see, that drug dealer who normally would pay no income tax now walks into the store, buys something, and pays taxes because of the Fair Tax

>>191276
I was quoting the other guy, since taxes are lower under Fair Tax for 3/5ths of the people in his graph

>>191267
Overall fairtax people intend to drastically contract government size and other barriers to prosperity.
You may not know this, but for the last 3 decades average american income has not increased at all when compared to inflation.

>minimum wage doesn't cause unemployment

...sweet jesus, you don't know how economics work.

If
minimum wage = $8/hour
and I can raise my 7 employees' wages to $8.10 for them to do the work of an 8th person

Then
I save $.30 an hour.

This is known as Human Resources.

>>191316
Or you could keep the 7 at $8/hour and still make them do the 8ths work and save a whole $1/hour! You seem to fail too.

>>191292
no he doesn't he gets what he needs of the black market, just like how he gets his drugs.
>>191276
I in no way think our current system is straightforward, transparent, and painless. Of course just because something is straightforward and transparent does not make it good. As for being painless I do not think that anything that causes me to pay more taxes is painless.

>>191302
3/5 of the people is a different statistic from 3/5 of the groups on a graph.

>>191323
or you could pay one person and make him do it all and save a lot of money!

oh wait reality doesn't work that way.

You guys need to realize employers only hire when it will increase profit (marginal revenue > marginal cost). They don't hire people out of the goodness of their heart.

>>191347
true but on average it's 3/5th, since I assume those are quintiles.