Is the guy on the far right supposed to be rupert murdoch?

I knew before I clicked the picture that it would be a libertarian troll. Do you guys have any real arguments?

ok I fucking raged

The third panel should say "2010: After Obama approves offshore drilling, ..."

>>1820525
did you even click the picture?

>lacking government oversight

>lacking government oversight

whatliberalsbelieve.png

ITT: suddenly, presidents are responsible.

>>1820525
> Do you guys have any real arguments?

Do the libertarians have any real arguments?

>>1820554
ITT: Suddenly presidents aren't responsible

The first you could argue was corrupt business.
The other two were a direct result of government interference.

>>1820498
Too much loaded language in that.

Ganks and wall street didn't "DRAG THE USA INTO A DEEP RECESSION". That's the fault of Americans being too Liberal with their own spending, choices, priorities, and work ethics. And BP wasn't caused by a lack of government oversight but by a lack of quality standard in the BP managers and the government. Everyone needs to step up their focus in their work and put down the joints, especially you, Liberals.

>>1820559

Itt: suddenly government is more powerful than wall street.

>>1820562
>That's the fault of Americans being too Liberal with their own spending, choices, priorities, and work ethic

After being misled by banks into taking ridiculously risky loans. It was predatory. You can't blame people who have little or no idea how credit works for this financial crisis.

>>1820562
Blame the poor and middle class. Are you attending the RNC by any chance?

Sad truth, the reason the Tea Party members do not care about the past is that it does not affect them personally.

>>1820562
>Ganks and wall street didn't "DRAG THE USA INTO A DEEP RECESSION". That's the fault of Americans being too Liberal with their own spending, choices, priorities, and work ethics. And BP wasn't caused by a lack of government oversight but by a lack of quality standard in the BP managers and the government. Everyone needs to step up their focus in their work and put down the joints, especially you, Liberals.

Banks and wall street dragged the US into a deep recession because the US had weak laws regarding banking and the finance system.

>>1820570

Yes you can, it's called sticking your head in the sand.

Free market eventually fixed it, so there's no problem.

>>1820546
>>this is what conservatives actually believe.

>>1820570
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs

>>1820562
>>implying those with a job and good credit prior to the crash still have said job and can access credit.

>lacking proper oversight
fix'd

The mechanism to prevent it was in place, but the system was too corrupt/bloated to do it effectively.

>>1820562
>HEY bond markets and retirement funds, buy these AAA rated investment devices, they're filled with (toxic) loans. BUY THEM. THEY ARE AAA RATED, WE GAVE THEM THE BEST RATING POSSIBLE.

>>1820601

And who presided over those systems for oh so long before obama got into office?

Bush did.

So folks, if you think Obama is responsible for the mess the world is in today, take a very hard fucking look at what's been happening over the past decade.

>>1820601
Except for the banking one because since Reagan they have been slashing through regulations which are on banking institutions.

>>1820498
op's prpaganda is precisely the opposite.

All of those "crises" were caused by the false world created by bumbling regulation and fallible regulators.

>Implying that government oversight could have corrected/prevented any of those problems

>>1820604
Then the banks and brokers shorted the "AAA" rated packages that they sold, making even more money when the packages failed.

BP is in the tank right now because of the disaster this makes the other oil companies reevaluate their oil rigs so the same thing doesn't happen to them because while they may cut corners the last thing they want to do is have this happen and lose half their stocks

>>1820617

> implying that conservative rage at big government didn't prevent them doing their jobs properly.

>>1820608

Bush expanded the web of incompetence, but Obama isn't scaling it back either.

>>1820628


Has anyone actually mentioned race in this thread?

No, your post is irrelevant.

As nice as regulating wall street sounds to liberals because it will attempt to preveent ethics violations. The truth is you cant have a government dept. overseeing monetary transactions, investment making etc. It is entirely counterproductive to a successful economy

>>1820630

> implying he has to.

Bush did something wrong and no one stopped him, now Obama has an awful lot of room to do something that people take for granted.

The government Minerals Management Service that regulates energy companies leasing federal lands collected $10.8 billion from energy companies, the mine in West Virginia still blew up and the oil platform in the Gulf still blew up. We could do away with the regulators and get the same results, saving alot of money in the process.

Government regulators are like all other government employees, they just want to expand the size of their department, their pay check, healthcare insurance, retirement savings plans and pensions.

Food Recalls
Mortgage Crisis
Auto Recalls
Drug Recalls

All these things are regulated, get approved and released to the public and recalled.

If someone screws up, just punish them. Its not that hard to figure out when they screw up.

>>1820635

Lol how is it counterproductive though?

In three points, if you will.

>>1820635
china

>>1820631
>>1820631
Dems are pretty prejudice, I would know I used to be one

>>1820641
move to Somalia nigger

>>1820635
The irony is that libs didn't want regulations. They wanted banks to be able to hand out blank checks to the poor. Thats exactly what caused this mess.

>>1820642
you have an inefficient government entity overseeing business transactions amounting to billions of dollars. And this govt entity has its own political agenda, that if becomes powerful enough can restrict business dealings because they find them too risky, too unethical, etc but in fact they just don't understand the situation because a 60,000 a year civil servant isn't going to know as much about business as a businessman Harvard grad making millions of dollars a year.

>>1820641
Don't waste your time. These people don't understand that doing away with regulations doesn't mean doing away with the law and letting corporations poison and pollute freely.

>>1820669

> inefficient government entity.

Or just complacent, like the bush administration.

> political agenda.

Wot, you mean like neocons?

> hurr durr capability is determined by a small piece of paper.

Way to plump for dem liberal college professors, dude.

Yes, what we need is more regulators who take bribes and kick backs, and work for those they are purporting to regulate.

We need MORE of that!

>>1820643
You mean the country with one of the poorest populations in the world?

Chinese GDP per capita 1,000 dollars a year

in rural China which makes up 800 mil of chinese population the average yearly income is just over 100 dollars a year.

Yeah China really is a rich utopian paradise (sarcasm)

>>1820679

> we need more corrupt regulators, because anyone who is a regulator is obviously corrupt.

I'm sorry, were you just like born in full retard mode?

>>1820678
If the govt entity isn't strong enough/well funded it will be complacent because they won't have enough knowledge authority to speak out against these multibillion dollar deals. If the govt entity is too powerful it will restrict business deals that don't follow their political agenda, and all political parties have agendas.

And were you saying a Harvard grad businessman making millions of dollars won't know more about business than a civil servant who probably studied liberal arts in college

In 2002, protected by government lies, Enron collapses and fucks many people to enrich a few. Shit, one of them even faked his own death and his family made off with his ill-gotten loot off of it all.

In 2008, banksters and Wall Street, protected by government who approved of their predatory lending, causes the global economy to take a massive dive into recession. Shit, friends of the people who run the Fed even got tipped off on how to make a shitload of ill-gotten loot off of it all.

In 2010, an offshore drilling platform which had gotten safety awards from Obama's administration, drill too deep and awakened a Balor of Morgoth. Halliburton made their money by pouring sand instead of cement, TransOcean made their money overinsuring the rig, and BP is made of fucking money--not to mention they have their republican shills in place to make sure they won't have to pay for the trillion dollar clean-up to get rid of all the crude and poison they dumped in the Gulf.

They're so proud of their new Financial Regulation. It does nothing about Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae would they gave an unlimited government credit line, each of them borrow another $8 billion per quarter, they have already borrowed $185 billion, they bought 72% of all mortgages in 2009, their stocks trade at less than $2 a share.

But if you don't pay your credit card bill on time the new Regulation gives you a grace period before your rate goes up. We need regulations to protect people who don't pay their bills on time like a hole in the head.

>lacking government oversight bp causes a disastrous oil spill
This is hardly related to big government, its because our government was incompetent, they let it spew oil into our ocean for what? 2 months? before they where all like "hey this might be a problem"

>extremely bias and misleading cartoon
All the edgy people are doing it!

>>1820719

> again, implying that profession determines ability.

Some people just have limits, you know?

Also, if big government does restrict business deals in the name of a political agenda, then that is corruption too.

Ya'll seem to be automatically assuming that Everyone who works for the government is some sort of enemy.

Stop doing that.

>>1820735

>>1820735
what do you expect? Obama to get in a scuba suit and cap the well himself? You would call that socialism anyways...

>ITT: Blame the poor and middle class for causing an economic meltdown that was done deliberately so that the ruling class could take even more money from their pockets

>>1820498

>Lacking government oversight
>Clearly weren't lacking government oversight with numerous regulatory agencies

A bigger government is hard to rescue from corruption and waste you fucking retard. Goddammit, you commies are fucking stupid.

>>1820722
>In 2002, protected by government lies, Enron collapses and fucks many people to enrich a few. Shit, one of them even faked his own death and his family made off with his ill-gotten loot off of it all.

In 2008, banksters and Wall Street, protected by government who approved of their predatory lending, causes the global economy to take a massive dive into recession. Shit, friends of the people who run the Fed even got tipped off on how to make a shitload of ill-gotten loot off of it all.


>implying the fiscal side of the government isn't run by former wall-street CEOs and such

>>1820719
>If the govt entity isn't strong enough/well funded it will be complacent because they won't have enough knowledge authority to speak out against these multibillion dollar deals. If the govt entity is too powerful it will restrict business deals that don't follow their political agenda, and all political parties have agendas.

So, you haven't noticed yet that those big shots getting bail outs all the time could get this big because the government used its giant mastodon ass to concede them monopolies over the country?

lol

Remember accidents no matter what.

BP with very little real oversight has a big accident due to cutting corners in safety etc. The company can be sued for the negligent deaths of the workers as well as destroying the livelihood of fishermen, longshoremen etc who lost their jobs due to this oil spill. BPs stock is plummeting and people are no longer going to BP stations in huge numbers. Exxon/mobile and other oil companies see the disasterous financial situation BP is in and decide to revamp their safety protocols because they don't want the same thing to happen to them.

See how the free market punishes the guilty party as well as makes it less likely the accident will happen again

>>1820752
You are going to one extreme, I never said he should personally get down there, but sitting in the white house with his thumb up his ass doesn't help. I remember when people raged about bush and hurricane katrina.. tables change, and suddenly not doing shit is okay.

Having a government step in and help contain a potential disaster, and organize efforts right away to clean and help prevent it from spreading is not "OMFG SOCIALISM"

>>1820801
And thats another reason why they shouldn't be involved in wall street and all those big shots who got bailed out shouldve failed because otherwise why should they change their behavior if the government isn't willing to let them fail

>>1820810

Not doing shit is okay because bush didn't do shit.

If bush hadn't of been such a shitty president, Obama would not be as equally shitty as he is today.

>>1820833
dats rassist nigga

>>1820768
commies like the republicans whoe xpand the government whenever they are in power?

>>1820529
lefties, the biggest hypocrites.
Bush in power with a war, protest war
obama in power with a war, silence

bush is slow to react to disasters, OMFG BAD PRESIDENT
obama is slow to react to disasters, silence

>>1820862

> obama in a war.
Conservaturds go apeshit.
> obama slow to react to disasters.
Conservaturds go apeshit.

You guys even started your own political movement.

Can you imagine the kind of shitstorm if liberals had done the same?

>>1820529
Its not "no healthcare for poor people" the republican stance is "lets have the best healthcare we can for people who work for a living"

>>1820862

> obama at war.
Conservaturds go apeshit, liberals don't respond to it.
> obama slow to respond to disaster.
Conservaturds go apeshit, liberals don't respond to it.

fix'd for accuracy.

>>1820884
>Can you imagine the kind of shitstorm if liberals had done the same?
>implying their isn't a much larger movement in our country

>>1820902
>bush in a way
AMURKA STRONG SUPPORT OUR TROOPS FUCK DEM DUNECOONS

>bush slow to respond to a disaster
BOOHOO LETS SIT AROUND AND PRAY FOR ALL DEM POOR NIGGAS

>>1820922

> implying the tea party isn't just a manifestation of conservative middle-america.

>>1820887

except that most people who work still can't afford good medical coverage and many can't afford coverage at all

america is broken

>>1820902
Huh? There's nothing to respond to. Everything that needed to be said was stated by the OP.

>>1820974

Nothing needs to be said at all, seeing as they won't fucking listen anyway.

>>1820887
except that the working poor don't get to afford it either, lol

OP's comic speaks as though corporations and big government are separate entities, THEY ARE NOT. The corporation is a state mandated economically fallacy.

Government is the hand that holds the sword, the corporations are the blade. Regulated, unregulated. It doesn't matter. THEY LET IT HAPPEN. They let everything they want to happen, happen. Always. PLEASE, DO SAVE US FROM BIG GOVERNMENT. No company owned by a single person could ever get away with this shit. Regulations or not, the owner would be lynched in an instant.

>>1820958
86% of americans have health insurance, the remaining 14% are made up of people who don't work and so can't afford health insurance and those that do work but don't want to pay for health insurance. Is it a perfect system? No but it sure as shit is better than anything they got in Europe or Canada. I've been to the hospital in Rome, and if that is what they consider quality healthcare I don't want it

>>1820984
The thing is though, they can afford it, but they choose to waste their money on flat screen tvs, xboxes, alcohol, cigs, expensive cars, jewelry and designer clothes. None of which are necessities and then they get sick and are like I wants healthcare for free

>>1820998
You forgot people who cannot buy insurance (read: pre-existing conditions).

>>1820998
>claim to have had bad experience at hospital in a foreign country
>"SOCIALIZED MEDICINE IS TRASH!"

I would like to mention the times I went to hospitals in the US I sat in the ER waiting room for 40 minutes (they claimed to have the fastest in the area) and when I saw the "doctor" my temperature was taken and I was given a perscription for some antibiotics. Then the hospital sent me a $650 bill. Yeah man, the American system is SOOOO good....

>>1820998

90% of statistics are pulled out of one's ass 75% of the time.

Big government is not the problem and small government is not the solution. The free market is not benevolent or even fair.

Why aren't people up in arms over GOOD government anymore? I remember when I was little, people bitched about WHAT the government did, not about how much it did.

>>1821065

What pisses me off more than the wait times or the bill is that there are state-funded Indigent Funds available for people who don't have insurance. The hospitals never TELL you about them because every year, whatever wasn't given away rolls over into the hospital's accounts.

INSURANCE IS NOT THE SAME AS MEDICAL CARE

>>1821029
I said it had problems that needed to be fixed, like insurance companies can't turn away people with preexisting conditions, they can charge them more but can't turn them away outright. Also if the government wasn't so in the pocket of big healthcare, other insurance companies could enter the market providing insurance to people WITH preexisting conditions

>>1821086

People nowadays are extremely cynical and have more or less come to the conclusion that "Good" government is impossible, so the best solution is to reduce the government.

>>1820998
You realize that people who are (WELL) insured still get massive fucking bills, right?

And that, at the same time, the US government spends more on healthcare, per capita, than SWEDEN?

Something fundamentally flawed with our system or population. Probably both.

>>1821026

LOL, the average American household spends more money on alcohol, tobacco, and entertainment than healthcare.

Pic related.

>>1821097

Stronger policing powers and more instrusive media scrutiny ftw.

>>1821123
That's why you have to socialize it.

Our society is too polite to just watch people die in the streets, and people are too fucking stupid to think about the future.

The solution is to have the government choose for them, much like parents would choose for their children.

This is for your benefit, as you hopefully won't have starving losers slowly dying in your street and smelling awful.

People really ARE NOT smart enough to make their own decisions, this has been proven time and time again throughout history, as people latch on to whatever leader looks like he knows what he's doing.

Not reading this crap, that pic is bullshit, the government oversight is already there but they weren't doing their damn jobs. Theirs layers of oversight throughout everything, if they don't do their job then it doesn't matter.

Larger government just means they get their hands into more and more to manipulate and control, while making things more likely to fuck up.

>>1821102
We also make the vast majority new medicines, new medical treatment, technology etc. Unlike Sweden who caps the price of how expensive medicine can be. Therefore making pharmaceutical companies in sweden have no incentive to make new medicines. If the US became like Sweden we actually would become like sweden in that we would stop being innovative when it comes to new treatments, drugs, etc.

>>1821141

Why can't the country let them wallow in their own shit? They're only 14% of the population.

I say let them lose their cars and mcmansions. They'll never starve because of cheap food and food stamps and they'll never live on the streets because of welfare and section 8 housing.

>People nowadays are extremely cynical and have more or less come to the conclusion that "Good" government is impossible, so the best solution is to reduce the government.

Because it's impossible to maintain. The happier/free'er/successful a country is, the larger it's government will become. Taxing someone 80% of their income isn't a big deal when they still have thousands of dollars left over for entertainment.

>>1821162

No.

Larger government simply requires stronger policing and public scrutiny in order for it to be effective and not susceptible to corruption.

People should not let themselves be fooled into thinking something doesn't work because people just take advantage of it.

>>1821162
>they weren't doing their damn jobs.

Bush told them to go home.

>>1821175
>80%
where does that money go? poor people who don't work? other inefficient government entity that wastes ridiculous amounts of money on stupid projects,

government creates problem. government run/controlled/influenced media demands bigger, more intrusive government. rinse and repeat.

>>1821179
people have been thinking that big government can somehow be efficient, moral and unbiased since the beginning of civilization. time and time again we've realized it can't be often resulting in the deaths of millions of people

>>1821227
How would you want that 80% to be spent then?

>>1821173
Because it's simply not acceptable to the average American. To you and me it may be OK, but 90% of the populace(left and right) would be outraged. You really misunderstand what the conservative base in America is. The Free Marketeers are a pretty small bunch compared to 'JESUS LOVES ALL AND STOP ABORTION' crowd.

>>1821165
Can someone tell me why we should be doing Sweden's research and innovation for them?

Not to mention that Sweden has quite a bit of publicly-funded research. (Astra-Zeneca, one of the largest pharmaceutical companies in the world is part-Swedish).

Why does it cost so much more in the US? Why do citizens of other countries live just as long as someone who gets healthcare in the US? We develop the medicines FOR them and they sell them to the population at regulated price? I smell a heap of bullshit.

>>1821179

The public is barely willing/able to keep track of American government when it was "small."

You need proper reform, not adding to the bloat.

>>1821265

Actually i would argue you don't need reform at all, you just need the people who are supposed to be making sure the government isn't fucking about to do their jobs properly.

Legal reform, perhaps.

>>1820622
>implying it doesn't take just one oil spill to fuck up the ocean for retardedly huge areas, including the Gulf Coast, which was STILL recovering from Hurricane Katrina.

"It's not about having big government, it's not about having small government, it's about having EFFECTIVE government.

-Obama


I think most Americans don't understand this.

>>1821248
I'd like me to have it to spend it how I like because the more money a person has the more money that person has to consume as well as save up. Its not the governments job to support me I have to be responsible and support myself

It has nothing to do with how big/small a government is, it's about how well they do their jobs.

Negligent companies will create problems.

Negligent government officials will create problems.

It is the human element, not how big/small something is.

These problems will never miraculously stop happening. But we learn from them, or atleast we sometimes learn from them.

>>1821260
Because if we all do what sweden does, which is capping medicine/treatment prices none of us will have good treatment because the pharmaceutical companies and health care people will have no monetary incentive to make that next big medical breakthrough because they won't get anything out of it.

>>1821323
>>1821323
The problem is government is always negligent because government has no reason to not be because they are not monetarily beholden to its consumers. yeah people can get fired but losing money being inefficient won't get you punished like it does in the corporate/business world

>>1821347
Why should Sweden get a free ride? I don't want to pay for others development.

Your logic is inherently pro-foreigner.

>>1821323
I would like to expand on my post, by using BP as an example.

Neither government nor BP ensured that the proper technology was available should such a disaster arise.

Both government and BP failed by being too greedy and not watching their backs.

Government and companies are often at odds with each other, bribing and pushing each other to get the best deal for them in the end. This is how business works and has to work.

Safety procedures were ignored by workers, who were doing it behind both government and BP's backs to make their lives easier.

The human element failed in all sides.

But, next time such off shore oil drilling is conducted, it will hopefully be safer as a result.

This goes for all forms of business including wall street.

Mistakes will be made and lessons learnt. But in the end, it is the people doing their jobs that will determine if it happens again, not just one person or one group of people.

>>1821368
>implying efficiency and not personal connections are what is important in the corporate managerial world

They don't get fired for fucking up, they get bailed out. That's the whole problem.

>>1821368
Government is not always negligent, because if it was, we would not have prosperous nations on this planet.

Look at countries like the Phillipines and Thailand, they have big corruption issues and poverty that is unlike anything westerners will often see or experience.

Getting things to run well depends on the people doing the jobs. We need better society, better training, better risk management and better attitudes.

>>1821370
>>1821370
I don't like it either Sweden are bunch of socialist freeloaders. But I'm not going to not allow our companies to sell to them even even if its for a capped price. I think they shouldn't have a capped price but since its not america what can we do? The point I'm making is even though the rest of Europe are freeloaders, we can't become like them because then we'll all be freeloaders with nobody to mooch off of

>>1821347
Medicine is _not_ cheap in sweden

http://www.apoteket.se/privatpersoner/common/search.aspx?q=aspirin

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Bayer-Extra-Strength-Aspirin-500-mg/10316161

Enjoy the lies spread by socialists undisputed in the socialist media

>>1821388
>implying they're both not very important in the business world

and yeah bailouts are retarded

>>1821406
>Look at countries like the Phillipines and Thailand, they have big corruption issues and poverty that is unlike anything westerners will often see or experience.

>Getting things to run well depends on the people doing the jobs. We need better society, better training, better risk management and better attitudes.

Have to admit, I've been to Thailand and they do have a very deep routed culture of bribery and not caring much for the under classes.

I would agree to some extent that attitude of the employees/officials plays a big part.

>>1821406
The government that is best, governs least

Prosperous nations like the US have a much less intrusive government and that also pertains to intruding in your finances and savings

>>1821426
Yes, but we get ~$50 an hour for our work over here.

>>1821437

No.

Governments which govern only a little only occur when the state of the citizenry is in an ideal situation.

With the current economic affairs of the world and two wars going on, you NEED a government which governs often.

Otherwise it's just be a case of a blind man leading the sighted.

>>1821426
Prescription drugs not over the counter tylenol bullshit

- Jews intentionally fuck up the economy and detonate an oil rig

- HURR means we need more big government

>>1821462

>>1821437
>The government that is best, governs least

A rediculous statement.

It is how they govern, not how much.

I guess countries like Zimbabwe with their almost sleep walking government should be doing the best right?

Government intervenes where it cannot trust those involved. Unfortunately, often the government does not have the experience/people required to actually do a better job or even watch over those who are doing the jobs.

Yes, it would be great if government could sit back and let all the honest do-gooder business men do their jobs and make the world a better place, but unfortunately as I keep saying, it is the human element that causes the problems, not the government or business as a whole.

Society must change, training must change, culture must change, or these issues will continue.

>>1821445
>>1821445
You know who else got $50/hour? the american autoworkers and look how well that worked out for everyone. You get paid alot but everything is super expensive so your actual spending power is extremely low. You also haven't invented anything worthwhile in hundreds of years

>>1821445

The why is US income higher?

>>1821453
But what caused the economic problems and 2 wars?
Answer: big government

>>1821476
You mean the 'golden age' of the USA? Yeah that was horrible man!

>>1821454
Prescription drugs are far worse priced since the high cost protection kicks in, money straight to the pharma lobby

O enjoy the 90 day waiting list for you prescription drugs btw

>>1821494

Wartime taxes bro. This was a time when America cared about its debt.

>>1821487
What 2 wars are you refering to?

Also, the economic problems were caused by unscrupilous individuals in both government and corporations.

Small government (such a rediculous term that can be seen in many different ways) would have stopped this issue from happening.

>>1821494
Yeah getting schooled by the japs in making superior cars for cheaper sure was the golden age

>>1821296

So if a government like Russia under Stalin or Germany under Hitler was "effective", we should use that instead?

>>1821533
Those governments weren't effective at all, they failed catastrophically.

>>1821506
90 day waiting lists for who?
I'm an american I can get mine in less then a day.

When things fuck up, everyone demands to know why the government wasn't keeping an eye on them or step in to do something.

When the government fucks something up, everyone demands to know why they stuck their noses in and why they don't just back off.

Gotta love the reactionary public.

>>1821583

>>1821544
I was talking to the fool that thinks socialist healthcare is great, here is some hard numbers for you

You get sick
You call the socialist hospital
5 days for a doctor to see you, he wants you to see a specialist - 30 days waiting
he takes some samples (1 week)
He makes the desiontion you need treatment (90 days)
total 132 days

This is the time goal set by swedish politicans and they are not held, surgery can be YEARS

Needles to say people die because of this

>>1821713
Eurofags: Wow public healthcare sure is perfect

>>1821713

sucks for sweden. works much better than that in canada.