I mentioned I'm 27 because its my B-Day tomorrow, but I work from 1500 till 2300 so tonight I hit the bar with friends. Also I have a visit with the flight surgeon tomorrow. That's the FAA's present every two years, getting to visit the fucking flight surgeon. Gee, thanks.

What is "the center"?

What are you drinking?

>>321878
It's basically where they outsource ATC. They don't get to sit in a tower.

What kind of education/degree do you need to land a gig like that?

>>321878
There are three types of control facilities in the United States. I'll order them in the way an aircraft encounters them as it departs.

1. Tower. Tower contians: Clearance Delivery who check and read clearances to aircraft. Ground Control who taxi aircraft around the field and own all "movement areas" aside from the runways (non movement areas are areas like ramps where pilots must navigate on their own) and Local Control or Tower who owns the runways and clears aircraft to land or take off. Local also owns the tower pattern.

TRACON, or Terminal Approach Control is the first level of radar facility. These controllers take aircraft from the tower and either put them on course, or establish them on a further departure procedure. They also, as the name suggests, run all IFR approaches to their designated airspace (Generally a 30-80nm area). They clear aircraft for approach (ILS, GPS, Visual, etc) and hand them off to the tower.

Center handles all en-route aircraft. They adjust courses and plan sequences for the very large airports. They're overstaffed, lazy, and their job is easy. No getting around it. They fly above the weather, and can't separate or sequence aircraft for shit. They're just there to keep the pilots awake.

>>321879
Fireball, Whiskey, Gin and Tonic

>>321881
I have a bachelors degree in Air Traffic Managment. Pretty fucking specific right? I think its useless if I get fired... Its a 4 year degree, although I've heard of 2 year degrees.

Shoulda joined the fucking National Guard.

Can you say where you work?

>>321885
Jesus, where do you even get a degree in that?

You could always work in Europe if you get fired...

>>321886
I'd rather not, as I know the powers of the intertubes.

Lets just say I work in a combined Tower/Approach Control, that's narrowing it down too much as it is.

>>321887
Yeah. I'm overreacting. I have a Control Tower Operator's License, so I COULD get a job elsewhere, even in Afghanistan for the DoD (would would be righteous).

Working in Europe would be fun too, for a while. I'd rather not become an ex-patriot.

Holy shit Captcha is hard when drunk.

>>321888
Dawg, nobody here is going to try and ruin your job. We just like planes, trains, and bicycles. But that's cool if you're not comfortable giving it out.

Does the job at least pay well?

>>321890
I know, but its a public board, and I REALLY like my job.

>>321892
Yes. Very. 80K range, and I work at a modest facility, not a super busy one. You earn it though. It may not look like it 90% of the time, but the other 10%...holy shit....

Let's just say I've been at this only a few years and I've saved a few lives, and kept thousands safe in usual business.

>>321895
Do you guys really struggle that much with staying awake?

What were your thoughts on the spat of controllers falling asleep?

>>321896
Political and media bullshit.

50% of ALL mid shift works in ALL industries fall asleep. We commonly go from a 6am-2pm shift to a 10pm-6am mid shift. Its not something the human body even remotely wants to do. I don't have trouble staying awake on mids, but the signs of fatigue are there. If I read a book, I have to stop reading by 3am or so because I can't focus on the words, etc. Combine this with the FAA demanding we do NOTHING but stair at an empty Radar scope all night and you can see the problem. When I drive home in the morning I might as well be drunk as I am now.

Oh, and we'd get fired if we slept on our breaks back then. That's loosened up lately thankfully.

Basically we were under unfair scrutiny and our bosses threw us under the bus to save their jobs.

And remember, that was just happening on the mid shift. During the days we're 100% staffed and just fine.

>>321897
Ya' I don't really blame you guys entirely.

I can only imagine somebody working at my local airport (BTR) all through the night considering there is nothing going on.

I was a bit surprised when a radio DJ was taking jabs at you guys at like 4 AM once. As if talking with three other people on a radio show is the same.

>>321898
Yeah, you know how many planes I talked to on my last mid shift? ONE. 8 hours and I talked to ONE plane.

>>321899
Were they at least really friendly? :3

I do recall listening to the ATC before for DFW like at 3 AM and it was surprisingly busy. But I guess that's because they do a lo of cargo there.

>>321900
Yeah, at DFW they probably have a couple crew's on the mid. We've only got 2 guys for the whole night. The only way to get off position is to go take a piss.

I'm sure the flight I talked to was nice, but it was at like, 5am, so I'm usually a little loopy by then. Its about 30 minutes from the morning crew coming in and saving me, so I just make sure the runway is clear and get them cleared for take off and off to departure.

Thankfully we're very well trained so even half asleep we can do our jobs better than most. I can't say this enough. The United States has an extremely well trained ATC work force. The media and the politicians and the public really take it for granted how safe our airways are, but its a hell of a lot of work to keep them that safe. Remember that we are the safest in the world, by far. The number of operations we run, and the number of incidents/accidents we have are just amazing. I take quite a bit of pride in my work. I feel bad when I see people who can't take pride in theirs.

>>321902
Do you have a favorite airline?

>>321904
Horizon. Southwest is second. They'd be first but their pilots can be real dicks when you have to put them behind somebody, or make them wait for things out of your control.

Worst? Former NWA pilots. Holy shit. So slow.

>>321907
What's your favorite plane?

>>321904
Horizon. Southwest is second. They'd be first but their pilots can be real dicks when you have to put them behind somebody, or make them wait for things out of your control.

Worst? Former NWA pilots. Holy shit. So slow.

Okay, I've gotta hit the sack now. I'll be back tomorrow as the Hungover Air Traffic Controller. Have a picture of SNOWBLOWIN in action from last year. Those things are surprisingly tricky to drive.

>>321909
Goddamnit. I have no idea how it did that.

>>321908
Personal favorite is the F-15. Professional favorite is the 737, especially later models. Can't wait to see the MAX.

Worst is the airbus series. Its like the pilots just sit there and wait for the computer to tell them what to do. Never rely on an Airbus is my personal motto.

>>321909
Adios man. Thanks for answering questions.

Have you heard of the clusterfuck that is Airservices Australia? Do US controllers use this as a cautionary tale?

I'm back. Not as hungover as I thought I'd be, woo hoo.

>>321926
Never heard of it.

>>321881
op said he has a bachelor's, but that really is overkill. some community colleges offer an aa, and that really is all that is necessary to go to atc school for someone straight out of hs. however, someone who is a bit older who has at least three years of work with increasing responsibility may also apply. essentially, all the degree programs at both aa and ba level are for youngsters because the faa reteaches everything at the training.

>>321929
This is true, however...

The big programs allow you to actually try your hand at simulated ATC. I like this because it helps weed out the people who really don't have the personality/mind for this job. Plain and simple, not everyone can do it. I saw a bunch of people get a reality check in college, and I've seen people in the FAA that just should NOT be there.

Big helpers otherwise are having an aviation background or education. I had a guy that was pretty much parallel with me through the training program. He knew almost nothing about aviation aside from what they taught him about ATC, whereas I grew up in aviation and used to fly. I had a much easier time with things and I understand a helluva lot more about the job then he does. Also, my 4 year degree gave me a pretty rounded education, including: General Aviation, Aviation Safety, and a minor in Human Factors.

Even simple things like knowing your aircraft can help a lot.

Pic is the whiteboard after a training debrief. Not my debrief thankfully.

How much stress do you have on your average day?

Will tower ATC get replaced by center ATC in the long run?

Do pilots and ATCs see themselves as peers or do they look down on each others?

Is ATC a job to get old in or they move to other positions at some time?

Could your job be made easier/better with better tools/hardware/software/whatever? If you could wish for something ATC related, what would that be?

How much paper work is involved in your daily work routine?

>>321937
It varies. If you're busy then the stress can build up quickly. Its usually determined by how well your plan is working. I can be super busy but have a sequence that is working great and I won't be very stressed at all. Conversely, when you have a lot of student pilots or ignorant pilots or the weather is bad, your stress level rises quickly.

For this reason we try to keep a rotation of about 1.5 hours on and 45 minutes on break. A lot of non-ATC people bitch about us always being on break, but it really is necessary to mitigate the stress levels. The nice thing is I never take my work home with me so my stress stays there at work.

There are certain people in the government (morons) who think that someday towers could be remotely controlled, but it won't happen in our lifetime I think. They experimented with it in simulation and it got really bad reviews, for obvious reasons. Nothing beats a real person in a tower cab scanning an airfield. Your situational awareness is very good when you're in the thick of it.

For the most part yes, pilots and controllers are on the level with each other. In nothing else we're professionals. There's always a few pilots or a few controllers who think their shit doesn't stink but its a definite minority. Air Force pilots tend to forget that we're not enlisted airmen though, so sometimes you have to put them in their place.

Depends. If you can keep passing your flight physical every year then you can stay in the job and most do. If not the FAA tries to find other positions for you to fill that aren't essential control positions, like as support staff, etc. We do have a mandatory early retirement compared to most jobs, thus we have to put more into our retirement plans. Lots of people forget that when they bitch about our pay...

>>321937
cont'd

Yes! I work on an ARTS IIE system which looks like its from 1960. In reality its from the late 80's but its still a pile of junk. There are tons of newer systems out there but only certain facilities get them, as if air traffic doesn't need to be safe everywhere? There are new systems with stuff like full color digital displays where you can have tons of individual settings. I'd love to have that.

What would really make my job easier was if we had competent management and government. But that will never happen so oh well. And no, making us contracted under Lockheed or Boeing will not improve things either, it would make them exponentially worse.

Zero paperwork. Other than making notations on flight progress strips.

What is your favorite depiction of an ATC in a movie?

>>321940
Hey, do you know any ex military ATC guys, I'm curious and I just wanted to see if it was all civilian guys running the towers.

>>321949
Dunno, the tower chief in Top Gun is pretty quotable.

>>321950
Most of the older controllers are ex military. About 33% of the new people are ex military. Lots of military, they get picked up pretty quick in hiring if they're experienced.

>>321931
yea, i assume no one knows much about when they will start the pilot/controller swap programs again so that there're less incompetent people at both ends of the radio feed. i haven't spent very much time flying, so haven't heard that many gaffs. however, i do actually go to a school that offers an aa for people interested in becoming controllers and some so i've been in class w/ some of them. the level of misinformation was astounding--i guess it's a good thing they're at school.

Has there ever been an incident/incursion/accident on your watch?

>>321982
Yes. Multiple times. At least one was my fault, another was bad/mixed communications between controllers, another more serious one was a pilot error.

All were just incursions/incidents, no loss of life or property. And nothing too drastically close aside from the runway incursion I had with a Mooney on short final.

I've had a few emergencies, but all ended well.

>>321998
Ironically enough, now that I think about it, I was ON an emergency this year. Was flying back from my bro's wedding on a CRJ and some chick started having health issues about 20nm out from MSP. Very impressed with how it was handled. We came in hot, landed hot, got all over the brakes, screamed straight to the gate. I've handled one or two myself as a controller but it was interested to see what its like in person. Pilots and controllers that day did a great job.

What's the most bizarre emergency you've ever had?

>>322000
Hmm. Nothing bizarre. Don't have enough years in for that I guess?

One day in the radar I brought two aircraft in to 2 different airfields. Said airfields are about 12 miles apart. BOTH aircraft had gear problems at the exact same time. That was pretty odd.

So like what part of the flight do you actually control? Setting the flights up for their approach?

>>322005
In the tower I read aircraft their clearances, move aircraft and vehicles around the airport, clear aircraft for take off and to land, work the tower pattern.

Downstairs in radar I set aircraft up for approaches to about 5 airports, release aircraft from class D towered and non towered fields, and put all aircraft on outbound routes before handing them off to the center.

>>322006
So you do everything? That's cool.

How often do the approach plates actually change? I know you need to get new copies very often, but do they actually change much/at all?

>>322007
Every 2 or 3 months there's a new publication. I'd say the approaches have minor changes on them every 6 months or so. Major changes every couple years.

We have a binder called the R&I, Read and Initial. You're required to read through it and initial any new info before hitting the floor every day. It contains stuff like changes to approaches, TFRs, facility business, etc.

I have to know at least 23 approaches. I handle 6 airports with approaches to them. I don't have them perfectly memorized, but I know the important stuff on most all of them, which is still a ton. Thankfully we also have touch screen information displays so we can pull them up quickly.

>>322008
Do you deal primarily with civil or commercial aviation?

>>322009
We have General Aviation, Commercial Aviation, and Military (one of my airports is an airbase). The most steady traffic is the commercial stuff. In the summer GA is out in swarms though. Military can really get the workload up to because they'll all come out at once wanting practice.

I can' really think of anymore questions, but I really appreciate all of your responses. I always wanted to have a career in aviation, but just never had the opportunity growing up to really explore it.

What's your favorite part of the job?

>>322011
Being in aviation is probably the best part. Sounds strange but I grew up watching pilots and airport operators and hearing stories from my dad about air traffic control. Being "in" aviation is like being in a special group of people, a group where everyone throws jabs at each other, keeps each other on our toes through competition, and we all watch each others backs. I don't care if you just put fuel in the plane or you're a captain of a 747, if you're in, you're in.

There's a quote from a bust at the library during my uni days that has always summed up this world for me very nicely.

"For most the sky is the limit. For those gathered here, it is only the beginning."

>>322013
(tears in my eyes)
It's just so tough to break into I guess. Even when I'm finished getting my degree (mechanical engineering) it'll be tough for me to switch directions and head into aviation.

I salute you, my friend. You're living the dream.

>>322014
I'm sure there's always demand for good mechanics. Engines don't fix themselves.