I am not moved

Because trains are for socialist muslim dictators.

>>296605
troll 0/10
/b/ is <----

It's obvious, OP. Freeways are used by regular folks who own their own car, whereas trains are only used by communists and the poor.

You're not a communist, are you, OP?

>>296625
Of course they're not a communist. That would be rediculous.

>>296591
>gif
Do you have any idea how long I've been staring at this image waiting for it to move?

>>This is what America actually thinks.

Trains built the industrial world and are sadly neglected by the very nations that once depended on them, instead rejected in favor of less efficient cars and trucks that promise "freedom" but instead drain the wealth of the middle class.

>>296635
Exaggerated, but even with those figures it still provides thousands of people with transportation for decades, plus cuts down on pollution.

Also, 2 hours of traffic sucks ass.

..wait

>>296637
No, believe me, that's how much it is costing my home city of Honolulu to build 20 miles of railroad. It's not maglev, it's not high-speed. It's just an elevated rail line that runs from the airport to downtown, bypassing residential neighborhoods and the hotels.

4 hours of traffic, and then the freeways are clear for the rest of the day.

I prefer the car.

A lot of bad people in the bus/train ruining my days. I have had enough of that bullshit.

>>296643
Here about the guy on a bus had a problem with a (black) womens kid, and then the woman called her brother who opened up on the bus with a rifle at one of the stops?

>>296644
>>296643

I've never heard of any sort of a story that was bad and involved a car.
No crime, no minorities, no poor, no death or injury... nothing.

>>296652

>>296658

>>296660

>>296652
If you only see them standing around quiet, peaceful and shiny in the show room, that might even be true.

>>296625
This is close to the truth. Politics, 'public works,' and government have always been and continue to be the province of a society's wealthiest members, with the very temporary exception of popular uprisings. This is not the result of some malicious conspiricy, but the natural result of the fact that a society's poorest members are too busy trying to survive to become involved and that wealthier people have more free time and resources to expend.

People who are well off do not have a personal interest in mass transit or low-cost alternatives because they can afford the luxury of private transportation - from the perspective of people in government (an organization of the well-to-do) mass-transit is charity for people less-well-to-do, and so there will always be resistance from individual members of the ruling 'class' unless the government itself is institutionally supportive of public charity/welfare (socialism).

>>296668
So basically americans are too Betas to be seen without their precious cars?

>>296688

its not just a status symbol, in a lot of places in the us you simply cannot get around without a car. there are no trains, or buses or public transport of any kind. with the nearest wal-mart 15 miles away and no other means to get there, you need one.

>>296643
Never happened to me. What kind of 3rd world country do you live in?

>>296690
15 miles is too far to pedal?

How embarrassing.

>>296708
>15 miles is too far

most people are soft as fuck bro

>>296589
If each automobile in the picture were full (4 in sedans, 2 in trucks), I counted 66 commuters. However that's never the case so it's probably more like 30.

During rush hour the subways are usually full. That subway car could fit 70 easily.

30 people, lots of traffic, pollution, costly double overpass

vs

70 people, some traffic, no pollution, rail and maybe a tunnel or bridge.

...

MERICA IS HOME OF THE FREE, I NEED MAH FERD F-TEEN THOUSAND BEER SPROTS JESUS SAVES, FUCK BIKERS AND PUBLIC SHCOOLS MERICA

>>296726

oversimplification for the fucking WIN, amirite?

those trains run all day, not just at peak hours. 80% of the time I get onto a rail system, there are only a handful of other riders.

no pollution? the energy running that shit COMES FROM SOMEWHERE.

>>296726
If each automobile in the picture were full (4 in sedans, 2 in trucks), I counted 66 commuters. However that's never the case so it's probably more like 30.
>During rush hour the subways are usually full. That subway car could fit 70 easily.

public transit suffers from the 'peak use' problem however.
if you looked at a subway during rush hours, it's often nearly full--but if you look at it much of the rest of the time, it's nearly empty. to be greatly useful it must be built to peak capacities, but that means that it runs nearly empty the rest of the time

cars on the other hand are not run in circles with no passengers--they are only used when someone wants to travel to a destination

there is other economic factors involved, at least in the USA: roads are built exactly because they are more expensive than other options. in a fiat currency economy, greater and greater amounts of money must be created and distributed to produce the same economic activity, due to inherent losses to inflation. so the cheapest choice of government spending is NEVER taken.

>>296668
Typically the well-off own businesses and the whole monty. Wouldn't their businesses always fend even better in whatever way the owner likes -- quality, longevity, profits, fame -- the more people can visit it? Even more so if those people can actually afford it?

Neglecting to improve business will destroy the business over time, and less business is less wealth to everyone. A worse neighborhood.

You're suggesting these people with free time and a self-interest that get into politics are either not really caring about anything or are just actively digging their own grave. It's a problem that fixes itself over time, if you let it.

>>296728
>>296729

Cool anecdote, bro.

The meaningful peak demand factor in a transit network is the most crowded station span. Most transit networks suck: even at peak demand the demand is unbalanced both directionally (people go to only one direction) and in volume (line tail-ends are significantly less crowded than the body section). Just an empty contra-rush vehicle drops the vehicle's use ratio to at most 50%.

If you have transit that effectively transports peak demand into both directions and with near constant demand along each line, vehicle usage over the day is stupidly good even with comprehensive service during quiet hours. This is perfectly possible, don't listen to bad planners.

The unbalancedness of rush hour traffic also affects cars: see those empty parking fields, empty contraband lanes? They shouldn't be empty, just like transit vehicles shoudln't be empty. That's waste.

>>296728
>no pollution? the energy running that shit COMES FROM SOMEWHERE.

Cars almost always run on gasoline. They are guaranteed to pollute. Trains could get their power from anything, including wind, nuclear, hydro, solar, coal, oil. Not guaranteed to pollute.

>>296708
>>296716
Try doing that ride in the snow at night when you need to make your weekly trip for groceries.

In the US a car is a better option if you have other people who want to ride with you. Taking a family of 4 to the movies on a bus will cost over $10, whereas a car can do the same trip for $3-4 in gasoline.

>>296751
You still have to pay the car, taxes, insurance, fines, license, registration, mechanic and fuzzy dices.

>>296753
>dices

>>296728
>>296729

> thinks the same number of trains with the same number of coaches are run during peak and off peak hours

"you can park cars but you can't park trains" - some fag on /n/

ITT: Europeans who don't realize the enormity of the U.S.
ITT: Europeans who don't realize that most major cities in the U.S. have very good public transportation, and it's the suburbs that people are always debating about

>>296758
Also, for the record: Los Angeles isn't a city, it's a giant 40-mile-wide suburb. As such, trying to move LA over to public transportation would be even more of a nightmare than its current freeway system.

>>296589
The first thing I thought when I saw the picture was a Tatra K2.

>>296759
lol wat

>>296764
Samefag here.
This is a K2:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sarajevo,_Tatra_K2_(1).jpg

>>296758
>ITT: Europeans who don't realize the enormity of the U.S.
nope.

United States' total area: 3,794,101 square miles.
Europe's total area: 3,930,000 square miles.

Btw, amerifag here.

>>296753
>You still have to pay the car,
Assuming you are not stupid, a $12,000 hatchback is more than enough for getting you and 3 other people places. That car will last you 10 years if you don't drive like a crackhead.

$1200/yr

>taxes,
Registration for a car is only $20 a year. Inspection and emissions is another $50

>insurance
Assuming you are not 16 and driving a sports car insurance is only $1000-$1200 a year for full coverage

>fines,
Don't drive like a retard and this costs a total of $0 a year

>license
$20 for a permit once in your life.

>registration
Addressed this in taxes. Only $70/yr

>mechanic
A man should be able to do most of his own work on a car. The warranty covers most of the common problems. The expensive problems don't creep up until the car is older.

Wear and tear items(oil, tires, brakes) will run around $250 a year if you do you own work for all 3.

>fuzzy dices.
I will admit this is a major cost to owning a car. However you must have them.

Fuel is the biggest cost of ownership. Assuming you drive 10,000 miles a year, gas costs $4/gallon, and the car get an average of 30mpg the fuel cost will come to $1350 a year.

For a family of 4 the total cost per year for a $12,000 hatchback is around $4000 a year. A pass on my local bus system(port authority of Allegheny county) is $1400 per year, per person. A family of 4 who only uses the bus/train to get around will need to spend $5600 on passes per year. The bus system services a limited number of areas at a limited number of times.

Mass transit work well for commuting to work. It does not work well for families due to the per-person fare for mass transit. In many cities, people living alone and working in the city would be better served by riding a bicycle for commuting and general errands and having a membership with zip cars for when a car is needed.

>>296768
>United States' total area: 3,794,101 square miles.
>Europe's total area: 3,930,000 square miles.
United States' 2009 population: 305 million
Europe's 2009 population: 852 million

The U.S. is a hell of a lot more spread out than Europe. In 2000, half of the total U.S. population lived in the suburbs. This is because the 1950s taught our culture that everyone should aspire to live there once they can afford to do so, as opposed to Europe where the wealthy either live in the city, or on huge tracts of rural land, whereas the suburbs are filled with poor people.

>>296786
Let me give a real-world example of how spread-out our country is. I live in a suburb of Sacramento, CA.

If I want to ride the Light Rail system downtown to CSU-Sacramento, I have to walk or ride my bike 3 miles to the station. Then I need to ride the Light Rail to the nearest stop to the university. Then I need to walk or ride my bike 3 miles from the station to campus.

This means that every day I have class, I would need to cover 12 miles of that commute on my own. If I walked, that would mean *THREE HOURS* of walking, assuming I can keep a 4mph pace.

And that's not three hours of pleasant walking through a park; that's three hours of walking two feet from a road, getting my lungs filled with exhaust fumes, and getting my ears blasted from 50mph tire roar and the occasional honked horn.

Fuck that, I'll instead take my 25 minute commute by car.

>>296785

This is assuming that all 4 people are using the car simultaneously every time it needs to go somewhere.

>>296793
Kids take the bus to school. Wife stays home or carpools to work with someone else. You run your own carpool on the way to work.

It is not that hard to use your car to its potential.

>>296795

If you have people staying at home or using state provided transport (such as school buses) then you're not paying $5,600 on passes a year. you're paying far less than that, putting the cost of public transportation below that of a car.

>>296790
My university lies in a suburb, a satellite city of 200.000. It's about 25km away. Every day I take a 10 minute subway and 40 minute train ride, and once there, I can walk 15-20 minutes, or take a 10 minute bus ride.
An hour travel time for a distance somewhat farther than yours. Seems pretty decent, considering I don't need parking space, and am not subject to traffic jams. Also I don't waste money on a car.

>>296635

Cars: 2 hours of traffic at 6 am, 2 hours of traffic at 4 pm.

Train:

>>296790
Your problem is that you have a shit distribution of things. Since you all want to live in a big house (I don't know why), your residential areas have ridiculously low density, so you can't possibly give it all rail-coverage effectively. And feeder buses don't make much economic sense, people don't need to trevel within their own residential area, and the trips to the station barely justify the bus.
City centers aren't too popular either, instead you live between malls and strip malls. Again you concentrate your commercial activity between single centers, dispersed around nothingness. Again, any kind of rail line between the residential area (sparsely populated) and these kinds of shops wouldn't make too much sense, you could never get enough ridership. And you couldn't possibly establish effective rail links between these kinds of places.
In other cities you have various different sized populated areas, which are within themselves more diverse, so that you can limit transport to between towns (usually from the bigger one to the smaller ones), and transport within the towns, as to move people between residential area, commercial area, and longer distance station(s). Hence, you can mantain a solid ridership base throughout the day. Less cars means you don't need much space for large freeways (complete NIMBY) and parking space, everything can be closer together and you don't need to rely on your car for everything. Your loss, you're living in a delusion of fictitious wealth, but while having an even worse standard of living, while telling yourself that you're doing great.

>>296829
I know all of that; the only reason I live in the suburbs is because I have little choice. I grew up in a rural area (my town had 1400 people), and I liked it. I'd also enjoy living in a real city (Sacramento is not a real city). I think suburbia breeds stupidity, and that's all I have for miles around me.

What about private vs public roads? I'm sure that plays a part in the traffic issue etc.

>>296810
You still need 1 pass per person because in many areas using 1 pass between 4 people is considered to be fraud. You can pay per trip, but a pass is cheaper if you take an average of just more than 1 trip a day.

You have not addressed this problem:
>want to take the family to visit grandma
>grandma lives 60 miles away in the countryside
>buses go 15 miles of that 60 mile trip.

>>296886
>want to take the family to visit grandma
>grandma lives 60 miles away in the countryside
>buses go 15 miles of that 60 mile trip.
To be fair, in this scenario you can rent a car, and it would still be cheaper than owning, assuming you don't go to her house every weekend.

Sacramentofag here, I need a car to get anywhere in Sacramento, but if I lived in New York City I probably wouldn't even bother buying one.